Addressing Accusations of Apostasy

//Addressing Accusations of Apostasy

This is a response to an email I recently received from one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

Satan has long used apostates in his efforts to seduce God’s servants (Matt.13:36-39) Apostates may claim to worship Jehovah and to believe the Bible, but they reject the visible part of his organization.

This is not true. The real apostates are very much apart of God’s organization. They praise the organization and exalt the Governing Body as the already approved  faithful slave, exploiting you with counterfeit words that sound like truth, but are not. In the 2nd chapter of 2 Peter the apostle warned us that just as there were false prophets among the Israelites in olden times, there will be false teachers among Christians. The objective of their deceit is to convince you that God’s people are luxuriating in spiritual paradise and all evil and untruth lie on the outside. It is a very clever tactic.

The verse you cited regarding the parable of the wheat and the weeds demonstrates this very thing. Regarding the interpretation of the illustration, the Watchtower teaches that the weeds the Devil sowed among God’s wheat were uprooted back about 100 years ago and that the wheat were then gathered into the storehouse. This is an absurdity considering that generations of new weeds and wheat have come and gone since then.

Even more preposterous is the notion that the weeds have been thrown into the fiery furnace and are weeping and gnashing their teeth in the realization that they have been excluded from Jehovah’s Kingdom. Let a Governing Body member explain how it is that Christ’s angels have already removed all persons practicing lawlessness and all things that cause stumbling out from his Kingdom. They could not possibly hope to do so coherently. Yet, several million of Jehovah’s Witnesses accept such nonsense without questioning it. For the time being the senseless one is praised, but the 32nd chapter of Isaiah indicates that that will not always be the case: The senseless one will no longer be called generous, and the unprincipled man will not be called noble; for the senseless one will speak nonsense, and his heart will devise harmful things, to promote apostasy and to speak what is wayward against Jehovah, to cause the hungry one to go unfed and to deprive the thirsty one of something to drink.”

The truth is, the harvest has not begun yet. And the weeds and stumbling blocks that are due to be removed by Christ’s powerful angels are presently among Jehovah’s Witnesses. Am I your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Galatians 4:16)

Take another example, in the 5th chapter of the prophecy of Jeremiah Jehovah states: “For among my people there are wicked men. They keep peering, as when birdcatchers crouch down. They set a deadly trap. It is men whom they catch. Like a cage full of birds, so their houses are full of deception. That is why they have become powerful and rich. They have grown fat and smooth; they overflow with evil. They do not plead the legal case of the fatherless, that they may gain success; and they deny justice to the poor.”

According to the prophecy wicked men lurk among God’s people; not on the periphery mind you, but as men in positions of influence, having grown rich and powerful —meaning, influential. That they are in positions of responsibility is evident from the fact that they are obligated before God to use their power as judges in behalf of the fatherless and disadvantaged, which they fail to do.

Ought we suppose that the leading men of Bethel have pleaded the legal case of the thousands of child abuse victims? Anyone who asserts that to be true is a liar. They have done the exact opposite. The leading men of Bethel are the legal adversaries of children who have been preyed upon sexually by wicked men. Just as the sun rises every day, there is a future day of reckoning for the Watchtower and its lawyers.

Some even return to God-dishonoring doctrines of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. (2 Peter 2:19-22, Revelation 17:5) under divine inspiration, the Bible writers used strong words to expose the motives and the methods of apostates. What do people like you or apostates want? Most are not content to leave the faith that they once perhaps viewed as true. Often, they want to take others with them, much like what you have done. Rather than going out and making their own disciples, many apostates much like you, seek to draw away the disciples (that is,Christ’s disciples) after themselves.

You probably have not taken the time to familiarize yourself with my work, but I oppose the deceivers who try to prey upon truth-seekers. I have written dozens of articles and videos answering trick questions and controversial doctrinal issues. Furthermore, I have received many messages from readers and viewers thanking me for helping them understand things better and in strengthening their faith.

Primarily, though, my intention is to preach the truth and prepare as many as possible for the future unveiling of Christ. Anyone who takes the time to honestly examine the Watchtower’s teaching in light of the Bible and the facts at hand cannot avoid coming to the conclusion that the entire 1914 doctrine is false. According to the Watchtower’s own teaching when persons are unsuspectingly under an evil influence it is the moral responsibility of those who know the truth to alert them. That is my motive.

By the way, according to the Watchtower’s own criteria, I am not an apostate. Check it out.

(Acts 20:29,30) regarding this the apostle Paul warned against false teachers like you, and many like you, you wouldn’t be the first saying: Look out: perhaps, there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey, something that Satan does, (Col.2:8;1Peter 5:8),.that description is very apt. because that is what apostates, and many like you do. They are much like kidnappers who carry an unsuspecting victim away from his family, apostates prey upon trusting members of the congregation seeking to carry them away from the flock, so basically all your doing in actual fact is your doing exactly what the apostle Paul said you would do, nothing to be proud about, and what are the methods they use, apostates like you often resort to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehoods.

As long as I have been online no one has ever been able to prove that what I present is distorted half-truths, much less outright lies. On the contrary, many JW’s recognize that what I present is true. For example, about six years ago I published an article entitled 30 Questions for Jehovah’s Witnesses based upon other articles I have written. In over half a decade not a single JW has been able to answer even one question.

As far as carrying someone off, that is an outright falsehood. I exhort JW’s and interested persons to carry on in the faith —looking beyond the stumbling blocks presently before us. And the truth is, I am the enemy of the militant ex JW faction.

Jesus knew that his followers would be victimized by those who would tell all kinds of evil lies against them (Matt.5:11) Such malicious opposers would tell what is not true with the intent to deceive others. The apostle Peter warned against Apostates like you when he quoted such things as”counterfeit words”, “deceptive teaching’s”, and “twist the scriptures” to their own ends.(2 Peter 2:3, 13; 3:16) Sadly, people like you succeed in subverting the faith if some. 2 Tim.2:18.

You are the one speaking against the truth, not me. Classing me as a “malicious opposer” and a deceiver is simply slanderous. If you can cite one thing that I have published that is an outright lie or deceptive in anyway, I am sure you would do it. But you can’t. On the other hand, as stated already, I have written literally hundreds of articles that lay bare how the Watchtower has twisted the Scriptures to support their 1914 parousia phantasm. No JW has or can refute me. 

The thing is Jehovah warns us in advance against Apostates, he doesn’t leave us in the dark, Romans 16:17 tells us keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. Why do we follow such wise advice from Jehovah, because his word tells us to do so, and we trust that Jehovah always has our best interests at heart.

As long as God’s word is filtered through the Watchtower you will never fully appreciate the truth. The truth is, God has allowed for a man of lawlessness to exist in the period immediately prior to the manifestation of Christ and he exerts a “deluding influence.” (Formerly referred to as an “operation of error.) Jehovah allows him to work a masterful deception —backed by Satan with every unrighteous deception and lying sign and powerful works.

For instance, as an example of Satan’s magic, the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand in June of 1914, which was the trigger that started World War One, came precisely at the time the Bible Students had been anticipating, leading the Watchtower to accept 1914 as the year of Christ’s return. The arrest and release of Rutherford a few years later has been accepted as the fulfillment of numerous prophecies –powerful lying signs, indeed!

Although the Watchtower has convinced JW’s that the man of lawlessness is the clergy, and hence has no influence over true Christians, the context of Paul’s letter indicates that the intent of the man of lawlessness  is to convince God’s people that the presence of Christ has already begun and the day of Jehovah is here. There is only one organization that has proclaimed that the parousia has already begun. It is the Watchtower. Obviously, the man of lawlessness has been wildly successful.

Ultimately, the man of lawlessness will lead Jehovah’s Witnesses into apostasy by opposing the authentic parousia of Christ when it begins. That is what Paul warned us about by prophesying that the apostasy must come first. 

Isaiah 48:17,18. Also for those that stay loyal to Christ’s leadership of his Christian congregation today, and love Jehovah’s organization that has taught us the precious truth’s that so plainly separate from Babylon the Great, of which sadly you’re apart of her.

The real test of loyalty will come in the future, when the Watchtower’s fraud becomes unavoidably apparent. Part of the deception that you are laboring under is the lie that Jehovah’s Witnesses have gotten out of Babylon the Great. As a demonstration of the falsehood, the Watchtower claims that since 1919 Babylon the Great has no power to restrain Jehovah’s Witnesses. Yet, just recently Russia banned the work and has moved to liquidate the Watchtower throughout the vast Russian Federation. While it may not be apparent, it ought to be obvious that the Russian Orthodox Church, of which Putin is a staunch supporter, is behind the ban. The truth is, Jehovah’s Witnesses have not gone into captivity yet. The Russian ban is merely a portent of things to come for the entire organization.

At the same time though, we recognize that our knowledge of Jehovah’s purpose is not perfect, our understanding has undergone adjustments over the year’s. Loyal Christians are content to wait on Jehovah for all such refinements.  (Prov.4:18) Meanwhile, those loyal to Jesus Christ & Jehovah will not abandon the organization that he is pleased to use, those who are loyal and working along side Jesus leadership and Jehovah’s  Holy Spirit see clear evidence of his Blessing upon it.

I whole-heartedly believe that Christ has used the Watchtower and that Jehovah’s Witnesses are accomplishing a vital phase of God’s unfolding purpose. However, the same could be said about the nation of Israel in times past. But once the Messiah arrived then the entire Jewish system was rendered obsolete and ultimately Jehovah discarded it in a horrific destruction. Because Jerusalem has also the birthplace of Christianity, the original 120 being anointed in an upper room in the holy city, and the apostles were unofficially headquartered in Jerusalem as well, the city of Jerusalem symbolizes Christ’s congregation in prophecy. And as Jehovah’s Witnesses well know, the desolation of “Jerusalem” and the holy place by a disgusting thing is the focus of Christ’s prophecy concerning his second coming.

Jesus sternly warned his followers that they would need to take decisive action to abandon “Jerusalem” when the disgusting thing began to stand where it ought not. Presently, Jehovah’s Witnesses are laboring under the delusion that “Jerusalem” symbolizes Babylon the Great. But if that were true, why would it be necessary for true Christians to flee from it if they have already gotten out of Babylon the Great? Obviously, there is a major adjustment in order and it is doubtful that the Governing Body will ever make it.

Acts 6:7;1 Cor.3:6. During these last days, it’s to be expected that Satan will continue to launch an avalanche of lies and deceptions. Thankfully those diligent in following Jehovah’s wise advise has not left us in the dark regarding Satan’s deceptive tactics. The Bible and the Bible based publications of the faithful and discreet slave clearly expose the Devil’s method’s. Being forewarned, those loyal to Jehovah’s Organization are forearmed. 2Cor.2:11-By keeping on guard against Apostates reasonings we avoid the subtle snare of self-deception, and Satan’s lies that we are worthless and unlovable another deception Satan uses against those that are loyal to Jehovah’s Organization here on Earth.

The Watchtower does indeed alert us to some of Satan’s tactics, but the Governing Body is also instrumental in exerting a deluding influence. Take for example the fact that Paul referred to certain men whom he dubbed as the “superfine apostles.” Paul exposed them as deceitful workers who had merely transformed themselves into ministers of righteousness. The fact that they passed themselves off as apostles indicates that they were the leading men in the Corinthian congregation. And to make the ruse effective they disguised themselves as ministers, meaning they actually pretended to preach and teach just like the genuine Christians. In fact, the Corinthians were unaware of the deception. That is why Paul voiced his concern that just as Eve was seduced by the serpent, the Corinthians were liable to have their minds corrupted by the superfine apostles, who were simply following the lead of Satan who disguises himself as an angel of light.

Ought we to suppose that Satan’s agents cannot similarly pass themselves off as zealous pioneers and anointed ministers within the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses? After all, even the Watchtower has recently admitted that the evil slave was not manifested as the Bible Students who refused to follow the Watchtower after Russell’s death. The truth is, the evil slave has not been revealed or dismissed yet. Like the superfine apostles in Paul’s day, the evil slave still resides in the master’s house at this very moment. And keep in mind that in his letter to the Ephesian congregation in Revelation Jesus spoke of those who lyingly claim to be apostles. The Governing Body slyly equate themselves with the apostles. 

Just a few last words if I may, You may have at one time been an  elder and a pioneer but that in it self is no guarantee you won’t be deceived by Satan’s subtle tactics, Satan once used that with  (self-deception) with Paul before he became a Christian, he persecuted Christ’s followers, his conscience may not have bothered him at the time, obviously his  conscience was misdirected much like yours is at present, though the difference with you and Paul is he admitted his ignorance and lacked faith(1 Tim.1:13) and turned around, and as they say the rest is in God’s word for you to read,..the message I’m trying to tell you is.. could it be you allowed your heart to deceive you, much like Satan did, there are many examples in scripture that you can learn from and apply from, analyze yourself prayerfully.(psalm 26:2; 2 Cor. 13:5) And honest self analysis may open your eyes much like the apostle Pauls. to the need to  make some changes in your view point or ways, it still not to late to make an about face in your life if I may say so, Your heavenly father cares about all mankind here on the earth he cares about you the person, however he loathes the deceptive heart, and the haughty ones.. he casts aside remember that, The most important work that can be done now on the face of this is being done, with Jesus as our leader you did do that, and now you are no part of it, you aloud your treacherous heart to dominate, time to come back before it’s too late,.. anyway time to sign off.. and please DO NOT REPLY. I sent you this mail for your life, because I don’t want you to lose your life. Right now my family and I are enjoying  a bountiful harvest in the ministry Jehovah gave us to do and my family and I receiving many blessings, with Jehovah’s blessing my family and I will see Jehovah’s name finally vindicated beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I am happy that you are enjoying the ministry. I wish you much success. But I have a perfectly clear conscience before God and have acted in accord with the truth.

You are right too, in the future Jehovah will certainly be vindicated. However, the Watchtower will not be vindicated. Instead, it will be exposed and judged in accord with the truth. Only individuals with strong faith will prevail. The followers of men will not.

Eventually, JW’s like yourself will be forced to acknowledge that I was right and the Watchtower was wrong. Surely, that will be a bitter pill for many to swallow. We may expect that it will be accompanied with much weeping and gnashing of teeth emanating from certain quarters. 

2017-10-20T17:37:46+00:00 July 5th, 2017|Mailbag|272 Comments
  • Nigel

    “As long as God’s word is filtered through the Watchtower you will never fully appreciate the truth.”
    “Only individuals with strong faith will prevail. The followers of men will not.”

    Amen.

    • Cathii D’Anthonii

      Good explanation between the apostate, and the man of lawlessness, the Antichrist s role is still confusing as we have three here to contend with.

      • Burt Reynolds

        We do?

        • Daisy

          The Terrible Truth…..all three of him…in one!

          • Burt Reynolds

            Oh I see! Yes, he does have a multiple personality!

            • The Raven

              And ya had to follow LOL!

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s true. I can’t help myself.

          • The Raven

            Ohhh. Ya had to go there? LOL!

    • Daisy d

      Good to see your name Nigel. Missed you. 😀

      • Nigel

        Nawwww. Thanks Daisy. I’m always here, actually! I just don’t comment so much…

        • Jamie Mac

          Hi Nigel, we collectively are intrigued by what you do not agree with. Maybe you should start a conversation on the forum.

          • Nigel

            Maybe…??

          • Nigel

            Started a conversation on the forum. It was initially a reply to a comment made by Brother King to me concerning his most recent post which, ironically, dealt with the very issue I disagree with him about. The comment went missing for some reason and I decided to repost it in the forum as the comments for that particular post seemed to get “hijacked” by one “Paulo”… …and I also had in mind what you suggested…

            🙂

            • Daisy

              Bravo! Bravo! Can’t Bravo enough! Just read your post on forum and agreeeee!
              Welcome back NIGEL ( and to think..you once did my head in)!
              You’ve now nearly done my heart in filling it with joy.
              Marvellous post, wonderful!

            • Nigel

              Praise Jah!

            • Daisy

              Indeeeeeed!
              Wanted you to get my e.mail address but sent it to my twin Daisy d!
              Would love to hear from you…

              patrihepburn@gmail.com

            • Nigel

              Sent you an email Daisy; hope you got it! 🙂

            • Daisy d

              patrihepburn@gmail.com.
              Love to hear from you!

  • As a JW, I recognize that you make a very good job. Thank you for all.

  • The Ancient Witness

    Well done brother King. The willful & blissful ignorance of most active Jehovah’s Witnesses is truly amazing. No need for you or anyone else to cater to the “mind-screw” inserted by the Watchtower Society doctrine. The time to consider those that intentionally refuse to research and do the homework and investigate the stated doctrine and beliefs put forth in the Watchtower Magazine … as cannon fodder.
    Sad way for things to turn but time to move on to people that will listen….

  • Ken Rosenberg

    Until Jehovah’s Witnesses start reasoning with the scriptures (ironic I know), they will never understand. It is weird though, while i was brainwashed by the 1914 crap, something in the back of my head always told me, Armageddon wouldn’t play out like they say it will, that the last days would be a time of great confusion and your life would come down to a decision, faith would be irrelevant, for Adam and Eve had faith, yet they made the wrong decision, the Jews had faith, yet they denied the messiah, and so it will be in the last days. Decisions, decisions.

  • The Raven

    “If you can cite one thing that I have published that is an outright lie or deceptive in anyway I am sure you would do it. But you can’t.”

    That’s right! They can’t so they resort to all manner of subtle and not so subtle ways of dismissing your work or attacking you and those who have found it to be solid and truthful. You can lead a horse to water…but some horses just have a little more sense than others. And thank you for responding to that person. Every once in a while some folks need to be reminded just what is what.

    • Ken Rosenberg

      Very true, I have found myself debating a lot of them at https://reddit.com/r/askajw They either twist the scriptures the way the Watchtower has taught them too, they begin calling me an apostate, or they don’t even reply, then the following day, they reset as if I never proved their 1914 belief wrong with the Bible. They know the truth, for I have been yelling it in their ears for five months, yet they still continue believing the lie.

      At this point, I am convinced it is more about their social status than what the Bible really teaches. They are afraid of losing everything they hold dear if they somehow realize 1914 is a sham, for I know what Robert is going through, everyone calling you an apostate, friends and family don’t speak to you anymore, etc. I don’t really care, I am a fool for Christ. One of them even told me, Jehovah would be to blame if 1914 was false, if there really was a man of lawlessness. This just shows you, they will choose the Watchtower over life. True wolves in sheep’s clothing.

      • The Raven

        You too huh? I did that on forums. They run the gamut from still deluded to determined to use their own interpretations. I knew I was being lied to by JWs that’s why I could not join. But I searched for truth for decades. Some things were blatantly obvious, others not so much. It wasn’t til I came here that the pieces began to fit. And in ways I couldn’t imagine. It appears to me that folks are already showing their true nature and stubbornness even before this whole thing blows. My hope is they get a clue now while there is still time so they don’t get caught in the watchtower’s deadlights.

        • Ken Rosenberg

          yes, after learning TTATT, reading the Bible becomes like solving an algebraic expression, it just fits and makes sense.

          • The Raven

            Some, After having been lied to go to the other extreme and trust no one at all. They miss out on truths and the devil still wins.

            • Thinking

              I have a problem with trust…a bother who knew TTATT…introduced me to. E watchman and crisis of conscience….and was on forums himself which I knew nothing about…then went around telling ones in the cong I was on apostate sites…and many forums do evolve into creating their own golden calves and become breakaways from the society …..it’s tricky..it’s dangerous…we are truly living in dangerous times..evil times as I think Amos talks about …
              At the moment there are two sisters who get up when the WT study starts and walk out….I suspect they are waking up ….but I have no intention of uncovering myself to them…I will watch them and pray for Jehovah to bring it about if it’s safe to do so.
              I have learnt to be cautious…..still working on the innocent as a dove bit…..lol…
              ..

            • The Raven

              Having a problem with trust is understandable but that shouldn’t blind you to being willing to examine all things. The intrigues of the KH have not been something I wanted to get involved with as I saw back in the seventies where that led to. I don’t blame you for staying under the radar with some of those people considering the times we live in. I keep in mind the very dangerous situation scripture speaks about concerning the end of the wto and the subsequent betrayals even to death.
              Keep doing what you’re doing and I know you and others here who are still attending will be OK. Just watch for when to get out. Robert has made it very clear he wants nothing to do with anyone who attacks JWs and many of the exjws are really bad. I once commented that I could not visit their sites due to their vitriol. All hate, no truth to explain any of the falsehoods. Not my cup of tea and I dare say, no one else’s here either.
              Since I was never “in” I try hard to see what it is to now be awake for some folks. It can be soul rending. But rest assured as long as you seek accurate knowledge of the truth Jehovah will provide the means to learn it. I view this site and it’s owner as a good one. Very straight forward, clear and not given to flattery or swayed by title. Heck, he could have had all that and then some had he not become an “apostate”.
              Thank you for your comment, Thinking. I’m glad to know you. 🙂

            • Thinking

              Nice to know you to Brother……I have to be up front with you tho…and I know Robert knows I think this…wether I’m right or wrong ..I’ll wait and see…but at this time…I don’t we have to get out of Gods house….eeeek I cannot beleive I’m even writing this…as I don’t want controversy ..bought down on my head….
              I do beleive at this stage..as I’m always having to readjust..but I do think we will have to make a deliberate decision ….or a form of allegiance ….as to how that comes about…and who with…or about exactly what..I don’t know…,aubue it will be whilst we are still in his house….maybye the brothers will direct us to say or do somthing that we simply cannot abide….im prepared for that..( I hope )

              I’m prepared to wait and see and keep awake…but no Raven…I don’t feel I need to leave..not in the manner you are thinking anyway…
              Actually in a way I’ve already separated myself just as Kaleb and Joshua did when they made the Golden Calf in the wilderness …by the second man in charge at that …
              As Ezekial 9 talks…I’m walking around in the city …and I do hope Jehovah shows me mercy and gives me the mark of the ink horn…as I truly hope we all get…..
              I’ll just be glad when this is all over and we know with out having to second guess that we worship him in purity…only then will I feel truly safe I think…

            • The Raven

              I think you and others like you will know it when it happens since you are not ignorant of these matters. That’s what I meant when I said, know when to get out. In the meantime I said do what you are doing, as has Robert. So, I wouldn’t worry so much about it. But I would be a little wary of very rabid ex JWs . They cannot see past their hate.

          • Burt Reynolds

            That is the mark if this site summed up in a sentence.

        • Cathii D’Anthonii

          I told an elder that I no longer believed that Christ came in 1914. He said that I could be disfellowshipped for being Antichrist….I said you have to be against Christ to be Antichrist, so he backed off, he said he knew that..
          Defining the apostate as this person who is compelled to be close to the organization and mislead, discusting as that sounds, is different than the Antichrist and the man of lawlwssness, Jehovah knows that today I needed this one..

          • The Raven

            The reason I did not join was they insisted I accept the parousia and the 1914 date or no baptism. I am not surprised they tried to call you an apostate. I would have been, had I joined. But they consider me dead anyway. lol . It’s funny though, because I still speak with them and consider them friends.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Joel 2:32 “And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe”
              Romans 10:13 “for everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved”

            • The Raven

              Thank you for those scriptures, Cathii. Great words of comfort to me.

            • Daisy

              Matt 24…”he who endures to the END…. Like Jesus…will be saved.”
              And endurance means suffering something painful and difficult (patiently)…something I found very hard to deal with before I found truth here, because my faith was to say the least, perfunctory. Didn’t feel much depth to it at kh’s nor in associating.
              I’m only now feeling that the stubble and hay of my faith is turning into more solid materials. I’m aiming for silver, if not gold. Hope there’s time to achieve that.

            • The Raven

              I am still a little surprised at finding this place and I think I know how you feel about becoming steadier in your faith now that it’s based on a more substantial foundation of truth about Jehovah. I can only hope and pray that our faith and love of God and each other will help us along to the end.

            • Peaceful Waters

              I used to feel that Robert was an apostate too, it was my husband (who was raised in the truth but always hesitant about the organization) who first showed me some of his video’s which I refused to watch. Unfortunately, it wasn’t until a while after I was baptized that I even fully understood the 1914 teachings. I started doing research to prove people wrong and to be ready to defend Jehovah and the organization from all the Pedophile accusations… it was then I watched the Australian Commission videos with brother Jackson. Blown away by his testimony all else shattered at that point and from then on this site has become a main source of spiritual food. Kind of ironic. My faith has become ever firmer thanks in much to Robert being able to clearly explain prophecy and the Scriptures. I totally agree that this site provides a “more substantial foundation of truth about Jehovah”. This place is like a safe haven, like a cave Jehovah provides us in the storm and so much more. It’s proven to me that Jehovah’s love for us is endless and that he will always take care of us. It is truly a blessing that so many are finding there way here and that Robert is given the strength to endure and keep feeding us.

            • The Raven

              I agree. This place has been a great help.

              Thank you for those sincere and bright replies. 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s full of contradictions. They think you’re dead, but are happy to count time with you. They would like to be the one that turns you around, but would call you apostate in the next breath if you argue. Love you one minute, hate you the next. Where is the loving patience and hope. So easily are Christ’s words dispensed with as he hung dying under the hands of those priests who slaughtered him….’forgive them father for they know not what they do.’ What the witnesses should have done is to invite you to stay and leave the rest to Jehovah, for you to ‘taste and see.’ They set themselves up as judges.

          • Marvin W

            I will never be reinstated because I told them I will never again believe in the 607/1914 doctrine and also they got the math wrong on 1975. It also kinda triggered me with the revisionist history about 1975 at this summers assembly. I was in high school in mid 1970’s and was told frequently I would never graduate high school.

        • Thinking

          Hi Raven …if this helps a bit….I also knew things were not right when I went on to get baptized….they tried to deny they taught the 1975 thing..and I couldn’t work out how Jesus stood up twice..( 1914 and at the appointed time ) …because the scriptures only say he stood once…so many things I could see they had wrong…and this was decades ago well before the net..

          Yet I had to acknowledge Gods people always got things wrong…as did the apostles…and tho at the time I didn’t understand why he was allowing it…I could see that he really did have a house as Peter talks about….

          I guess I was prepared to align myself with his imperfect people that constantly stuffed up..because he was still using them…..just like I’d walk along with the Israelites in the wilderness….or attend the temple before Jesus came ….I’d rather be disciplined with his people,than stand back from them…and besides…I’m no goody two shoes either .

          He had to forgive an enormous amount from me…and still does…I am constantly reminded of the great whopping rafter I have in my eye…
          It’s his house…and I want to in In His house….because he’s still calling it his house..his people…at this time anyway…:)

          • The Raven

            I was given a choice, accept what we say or no baptism. I made a choice with the hope that Jehovah would find a way for me to walk even if it was not with them. He has. I have had many talks, studies and witnessed to countless throughout my life. I’ve learned a lot and continue to do so. I think given the situation the wto is in there may be a number of others like me who did not allow them to kill our faith. Even though they consider me a walking corpse , I know Jehovah doesn’t. My next step is to gather my family up and get baptized. It’s kinda odd. I was never “in” but am looking to join His people on the outside and waiting for others to get out. It’s the times is all I can say.

            • Thinking

              You don’t join an org brother…I never joined the society…I went in with my eyes wide open …..I joined myself to Jehovah God..and I told myself I would never go along with anything that wasn’t scriptural….

              The thing is …Jehovah drew me to Jehovah’s witnesses….and he did that knowing full well their corruption and idolatry …..funny that….it’s why I know I’m not really seeing the full picture yet….and as it all unfolds I bet we get a few really big surprises….

            • The Raven

              The society is the doorkeeper and unless you agree to their terms, you cannot be baptized. That’s what I was told. Robert cannot return unless he accepts their parousia, 1914 etc and he has stated as much. I understand what you are saying and maybe some folks did not have the issue pressed with them, bit I did.
              It doesn’t worry me. I’ll do what Christ said to do and get baptized and the rest is in Jehovah’s hands. It never shook my faith. Inside or outside the gate doesn’t matter to me.

            • J.M.J.

              I also have had these issues . I read on Perimino`s site that if you can get a like minded person already baptised to baptise you it is all good as they do not have a monopoly on it . Early Christians did not have to go through a oath like the one we face now ,and they had the truth .I was going to try to speak to one of Jehovah`s witnesses who I have spoken to about things and he is not completely blind as to things (or maybe he is agreeing to shut me up) ,but I did not want to get him into trouble or place him in an uncomfortable position . I have been called all manner of names in the past from some and some spit it out like someone demon possessed .Now day`s I encourage all and drop a phrase or two into the conversation and move along .

            • The Raven

              Hi JMJ. Robert also suggested doing this under the radar since it puts people like me (who knows how many) in a bad position. My family and I have decided to do this. I just have to get them all together. It seems to me active witnesses are more concerned than I am about this matter. That doesn’t surprise me either. Thank you for speaking up and I agree, they do not have a monopoly on this. I’m fine with folks whether they are active, inactive, in, out or whatever as long as they have faith in Jehovah I think he hears them and me I hope. 🙂

            • J.M.J.

              I whole heartedly agree . I am not looking at what anyone else does as while I am ,I may well stumble and fall myself . The baptism issue came up a couple of weeks ago and I wrote and I believe someone actually gave the book chapter and verse as to penticost when the holy spirit was poured out to some who were not baptised . We can try to do our best and as Jesus said he would send a helper . I am so very grateful to Robert .I have followed him for many years while also following other sites . I have narrowed it down to Robert and Perimino who are genuine .I feel so sorry for some on other sites who are hurt and hurting ,but just cannot let it go and that is becoming their next stumbling block .

            • The Raven

              Absolutely. Jehovah will find a way for us to do what needs be done. I remember Burt saying that too. You two think a lot alike. lol

            • J.M.J.

              We are both Reynolds`s (that is true ) .I read a lot of what the comments are and I see that there are a lot who are having ,and have had hard times .Who have been ridiculed ,picked on and are still going . It is a inspiration to hear the stories and comments . As it should be . To build up and encourage to greater things .

            • The Raven

              Yes, I agree. I think that’s what will keep us together. Not our status but our faith. Look at the owner of this site and what’s happened with him. It didn’t stop him, no. In fact he has become a far greater advocate for Jehovah’s truth than they. This article above us should tell us everything we need to know about the condition of the wto and many witnesses.
              But not we few here.

            • Anderiega

              So are you going to have a brother privately baptize you? I got baptized when I was 15….”young and dumb”….if I weren’t baptized already, I think I might ask a spiritual brother to baptize me in a pond. ??????

            • Joseph

              Yuck, not a pond…… there is so much nasty stuff in ponds. In some rare cases it can actually kill you .

            • The Raven

              Hahaha! You’re right. Water isn’t an issue. Gathering up that pack of idiots I call family is. I think the invasion of bloody Normandy took less planning!

            • Burt Reynolds

              We English tend to invade Normandy or thereabouts on regular occasions throughout history. To which do you refer that needed planning? because generally we just row over there for a Sunday afternoon jaunt, but occasionally we have been known to allow a few foreigners to come with us and make a party of it.

            • The Raven

              lol! Everyone has very odd schedules and especially right now during the height of the tourist season down here near impossible to coordinate a day off.

            • Richard Long

              You may need cat herding lessons from my wife!

            • The Raven

              Haha! This time of year everyone’s very busy. We hardly see each other. Maybe in a few weeks we can figure something out. But it will happen. We have all agreed on that.

            • The Raven

              Yes.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yet it is in the contract now that you have to recognise the governing body are the inspired now do we not, if we want to get baptised? It’s a whole lot more than the symbolism it once reflected, and has its basis in accepting the organisation, above that of belief, to guard the organisation from lawful suit for deception or mismanagement, or harm, should one get disfellowshipped or come to see the truth. It seems that to get baptised today, one must defile themselves. At least it seems that way to me. I think you’re very on the ball when you say we are in for surprises. Nice ones I hope!

            • The Raven

              I think some witnesses believe that folks like me are different than they are. That’s not true, not from where I stand, anyway. They sometimes feel like they have to defend their decision to become a witness when I tell them the reasons why I could not. But, there’s no need to do that because I don’t see a separation between us at all. Most of them do. I have lost jobs, friends, been ridiculed and dragged through the mud because of my faith and even been symbolically “killed” by brothers in the faith, but never was bitter about it. I long ago came to the conclusion that God would set it all straight. It’s hard to explain and I understand that since we all have different experiences and backgrounds not everyone will see where I’m coming from. But that’s ok. That’s how I honestly feel about all this.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Absolutely, Br. Thinking .Jehovah hears prayers..Rev. Says “the rest of the dead did not come to life until the1000 yrs are ended. Even though we cannot have a complete relationship with Jehovah because of our imperfection, He still hears us. On reading the Bible, he heard Haggai, hannah, Adrahams servant when he went to find Rebeccah.Sometimes my head whirls on how fast he hears prayers, absolute faith in that has gotten me through so much… There are many wonderful brothers and sisters we need to continue to pray for. Adam had a relationship one on one with Jehovah, isn’t that the goal? To speak to Jehovah directly and have that with our Creator?

            • Joseph

              Thinking is a very sweet sister from down under- aka Australian!! 12 hrs ahead and winter time……

              I enjoy your comments Cathii ?

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Cathii, our conversations with our creator just have to be in the breezy part of the day 🙂

          • Burt Reynolds

            The difference between the apostles getting it wrong and the JWs is that the apostles were happy to be corrected. I did not have your knowledge to concern me when I was baptised. If I did, I would have been one of those that they still say ‘ we can’t get anywhere with him!’ ( they still can’t!) I just believed it lock stock and barrel because I had no real insight into what the bible said so had nothing to spark a doubt in my mind, and though I was happy to accept it all as true….what else was there?….I still got baptised simply to please everyone. The ‘truth’ still seems to be the truth to those who don’t know it comes wrapped in a lie.

            • Thinking

              Burt I had no knowledge what so ever…I didn’t even own a bible or have any religious back ground at all…nothing…what I learnt ..I learnt from The witnesses who studied with me…
              I knew about 75 because a few witnesses spoke about it in 73 and 74 ..at my work…( I was 16 at the time ) of course they we laughed and mocked for this……I listened …and one of them gave me the blue Truth book…..I read the bit about Armageddon….but .75 came and went….and I will be forever grateful for those witnesses who found me on the door at the age of twenty when I prayed for help when I was In Dire straights…..I owe them my life..

          • Huldah

            You’re comments add richness to Robert’s encouragement to stick with the organization by explaining why and how.
            (Despite all we know to be untrue.)

    • Burt Reynolds

      You remind me of the time when I was three years old. My father sat me on a horse and the horse wandered off and led me to water. He put his head down to drink and of course, i started sliding down his neck and would have fallen in had not someone saved me.

  • Ken Rosenberg

    This might be irrelevant to the topic at hand, but in my experience, preaching to Jehovah’s Witnesses in my old hall, on reddit, my own family, they are not even aware that the Watchtower teaches that the presence of Christ began in 1914. They are under the assumption that he only became King in 1914, they really have no idea.

  • Burt Reynolds

    I have much sympathy for the person who wrote to you Robert. A prime example of the blind and decieved, even as I was. Even today, I don’t know why I suddenly opened my eyes…or had them opened. All that happened to me was an open display that, due to the behaviour of elders and others, I became convinced that Jehovah was more merciful than his people. That may sound obvious, but to me, it was a dangerous assumption because I did not feel his own people either understood, or cared for, his flock. What did that make Jehovah?

    They did not even understand what disfellowshipping meant to the innocent, much less, shunning. Those options were just weapons of control over the flock. This person who wrote to you has no understanding of Jehovah. Jehovah as presented by the watchtower is a ‘process’ one has to accept and though unlike the church which only applies on a Sunday, still the witnesses simply appear to follow much the same routine. Jehovah is less of a person it seems and more of a routine of mind and function, and if that is not followed by rote, one is apostate, a liar, a deciever, a satanic imp stalking the corridors of Christianity.

    What seems to be the case with these hollow arguements put forth by honest brothers, is that it is not an arguement supported by knowledge. How can it be? If it were, then it could not be defeated. One cannot argue against truth as it is not simply made up of facts, but of faith and love also. Why those elements? Because facts do not generate love, or faith, only spiritual intimacy can do that, a sense of what happens in coming to understand. Essentially, that is why the brother told you not to write back. The truth of the watchtower does not contain love, let alone promote or explain love or deal in love. If there is love within the watchtower is was imported by those that came in as lovers of righteousness. Of itself, the teachings of the watchtower are sterile . ‘Thy kingdom come…’ does not generate an understanding of Jehovah’s love, but coming to know Jehovah, makes a truth of the kingdom. The brother who wrote to you is afraid of what you might tell him. If he felt he had the truth, he would welcome your arguements so that he could refute them with evidence and understanding from the bible. Likewise he does not look for righteous arguement on the ministry, he simply looks for agreement…as I did. Maybe that is why he enjoys the ministry. Everyone likes to be agreed with, but it but it is oft only a vacuous compliment. It is only a joy when you both agree on a certainty, and that takes humility from one of the participants. I often think that the governing body on reading your articles seek not to check it to see if it is true and if it is, how can they put right their own teaching. No. They seek instead how they can cover over their mistakes. And of course, that is the example the flock follow. It is few who will humble their stubbornness before the fear of truth, and which is ridiculous, because the truth will set you free!

    • Ken Rosenberg

      He is afraid, lol, that is why he wrote in caps not to reply. I hope Robert forwards him this article.

      • The Raven

        They present as self righteous folks who have no problem issuing condemnation but are too chicken to face a rebuttal.

        • Peaceful Waters

          Yes self righteous… exactly what I was thinking after watching the beginning of the July broadcasting, spreading the “we are the best” propaganda. When you have nothing to hide or are knowledgable about something you don’t mind debating. They need to “…Seek righteousness, seek meekness…” Zeph 2:3

          • The Raven

            It’s a shame, really. The writer wouldn’t even suffer Robert the opportunity to defend himself against their accusations. It was also obvious this person was very ignorant of what Robert is actually saying. It almost seemed like this person was just lashing out in anger. Makes you wonder what really got to him. Was it someone close to him that suddenly woke up? Maybe a study who questioned him and he could not answer?

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yes it must be a bit galling to demand no reply, only to have your thoughts inspected publically in front of thousands of fellow witnesses world wide and proven from the scriptures to be erroneous. If it were me, I would be feeling rather humbled right now….not that I don’t have a lot to be humbled about…..as always….

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Burt, don’t you get the sense that this person somehow knew his question would be made public , as you say, to thousands worldwide. If he is a regular visitor he must have anticipated such a thing.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I’m sure that’s the case. Now he will have to read every reply on the subject to estimate the time that reply took, so he could count his time. Then he has to keep watching to see if any follow his lead so that he can count a study as well. I suppose it’s a little like sitting next to a trolley of magazines.

            • Peaceful Waters

              Yes it is a shame, and does make you wonder what exactly it was that struck a chord. It sounded a lot to me like he/she was copy and pasting from a Watchtower or the online library on Apostates lol. Although it’s certainly not a laughing matter. It reminded me of how one of my old Bible teachers reacted, when I first started questioning things and was looking for advice from a “mature christian”. Ironically in the end the final email I recieved asked me as well not to reply in big bold letters :l

              Sadly, I also remember myself having that same sort of self righteous attitude, because I knew the truth and it didn’t matter what argument someone else had I couldn’t be swayed. Although, I never was haughty enough to resort to “talk to the hand”, quite rude I find. It’s almost like the anger and refusal to take a response is a self defence mechanism. I can’t possibly hear what he has to say because he could just be right. Like Robert said that would be a very bitter pill to swallow. God forbid an “apostate” would be speaking the truth. Never could such a thing happen in Jehovah’s “ORGANIZATION”.

              It all amplifies the power of Jehovah’s deluding influence, and more and more makes the picture clear as far as what the scriptures foretell. Shows me how much we need to pray for our brothers and sisters, and for Jehovah’s mercy and love to envelope us all. XO

            • The Raven

              I have known a lot of folks just like that one. They make life difficult for everyone. And they aren’t all Jehovah’s witnesses so I can’t say it boils down to a deluding influence all the time. They aren’t immune from the usual ills any more than we are.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Absolutely.

          • Burt Reynolds

            On reading your note Peaceful, I too watched the July broadcast to see what you meant. I was really confused over it. It was like watching a facade. I don’t want to denigrate the brothers. I have enough sin of my own to worry about, yet what I was watching seemed to be a collective mind-set of idealism that was nowhere near the truth of what actually is the truth. The article on video making was a contrivance of that idealism. Stage sets, make-up, contrived situations, contrived solutions based on a hoped for outcome that in itself was unrealistic. Encouragement that was wishful rather than felt or that is simply not there. Even the amount of ‘work’ that was put in by those ‘striving to take the lead’ was such an exaggeration it was no more than a solicitous grasping for compliments and adulation for those who hold a position. So too, the attitude that they are all kindly, thoughtful and knowledgeable of the scriptures and all those seeking to advance are immature and lacking in perception. And then, the ever now pretence that the governing body is ‘inspired’ but not inspired but really is actually inspired, but not perfect in itself and that they are humble enough to say so, yet they are fully aware of all things scriptural but one cannot question them because to do so doubts Jehovah’s guidance of the governing body. Talk about mixed messages!

            Then there was the real business of halls and effective use of such. Fine and appropriate on the surface, but that is not what it is about is it? I would rather meet in a field, than feed on a manger fed bull with hatred along with it…in this case, translates as money and income for the watchtower while payment for such comes from the congregations who pay for and build them. The watchtower made out they paid for them, but this is not the case. We do, then hand over our asset to them to gain from. Meanwhile ‘Jehovah has blessed us with a new hall.’ Maybe I just don’t see it anymore, because all I saw from this months programme was a business presentation bent on money, income, assets, slathered over with a milky glue of stale watchtower quality encouragement sprinkled with a few scriptures, under which was a strong message of aliegence to, and control from, the governing body.

            Since I have been vegetating on Roberts site and putting down roots into Jehovah’s truth I have not been visiting the watchtower site very much. But from what I remember of it, and my time within it, today, when I saw this JW broadcast, I came to realise, like a slap in the face, two things. Looking at this JW broadcast was as though I was staring into and empty grave, an endgame, a broken gear wheel that though turning, had no teeth and simply repeated each rotation without any bite. A hollow, a vacuum, a pit, like a trap to stumble in to and be covered over by.

            The other thing was how this site contrasts. No contrivance at the truth, just plain understanding of what the truth is. No stick-on smiles, just fellowship and a calm confidence. Learning that has texture, feel, insight and touches the heart and mind. There is no difficulty in believing something so clearly put and referenced to the bible and in context. No doubt, no anxiety, no cost in guilt and aliegence that should not rightly be felt according to our substance in faith, no money, no carrying the conscience of others. Just Jehovah.

            Though I talk generally and am aware of those of honest heart in the watchtower, I feel that if ever I want reminding about what truth is, what love is, what the difference is between meat and milk, then I will watch this July programme and compare it to the comforting joy and reality of this site and its exposure of the bible. It’s like being given your life back.

            • Peaceful Waters

              That was beautifully put Burt, my sentiments exactly!
              I find myself more and more unable to tolerate the information and especially the broadcasts. I have to pray to Jehovah before hand specifically to help me keep an open mind and heart, but I always find myself depressed and discouraged in the end. And it seems to get worse as time passes.
              The mixed messages, the guilt trips… ALL of it just breaks my heart. There really is a stark difference here. It’s like night and day. I think about the honest hearted ones who will be gobbling it up and it makes me feel so angry and sad and helpless.
              I used to always take Jesus words to heart about the truth setting you free… now it feels like way more than freedom, it feels like you mentioned, that I’ve been given my life back.

            • Huldah

              I like the broken gear wheel metaphor. I see myself getting my hopes up each time it goes ’round, hoping maybe this time it will catch.

              I think that’s the worst part, the disappointment.

            • Jamie Mac

              Gosh Burt, that was a good comment. It covered everything, from finance to theatrics.

            • Burt Reynolds

              If a thousand monkeys typed on a thousand typewriters for a thousand years, they would type the complete works of Shakespeare.

            • Jamie Mac

              Burt, if you are suggesting that your comment is on the same level as that then you are very wrong . It was very insightful and helpful and I loved it 🙂

            • Huldah

              Thanks for this Burt. Beeeeauuuutifuuuul piece of writing. Helped my husband immensely and me. He said, “Yeah, he’s a good writer.” I read him the gear wheel illustration.
              We have been saying all along, Broadcasting is “cookies for kindergarteners”.
              We even told his mom this. Of course, she is quite proud of herself for”enjoying” Broadcasting and accused my husband of not “loving Jehovah” because he doesn’t watch it. What you and Peaceful wrote did a lot to undo that Satanic comment.
              I have to say I do still like the Morning Worships usually, but just not into the shallow self adulating propaganda.

              I’m seeing a definite propaganda campaign to protect the elders and those taking the lead from any scrutiny. I think others are picking up on the hypocrisy. Its the final death rattle of the MOL (Man of Lawlessness for the those with acronym angst).

        • Jamie Mac

          Hi Raven, I’m not sure self righteous is the correct phrase or not. As Baruq commented maybe he is casting his net out to us and hoping for a suitable and loving response.

          Maybe he wants to be proved wrong, I really don’t know. 🙂

          • The Raven

            Well, he talked smack and then walked off, basically. The “do not reply” part is pretty funny. I wonder if he’s seen Robert’s reply? I wonder if he even thought Robert would make it public?

          • Burt Reynolds

            Ha ha! That really IS a thought. Can you imagine what would happen if one of the governing body got caught with private correspondence from Robert on his email? Thrown out of his luxury pad in an instant. Not even allowed to keep his fancy car….or piano! Relegated to waiting on the Governing Body’s dining table. You’re a computer boffin. Can you not hack their computers and have a look?!…. Not that I would ever approve of such a thing of course….

            • Jamie Mac

              Don’t worry Burt, GCHQ and NSA probably hack the WT virtual world on a daily basis.
              I have mentioned this before, but both organisations have a list of people who will be rounded up when the days of distress start. That list will certainly include the trouble makers from the WT org and probably Robert. You as well Burt, the powers that be at that time don’t want you talking rings around them. The truth will hurt them that’s why they will have so much anger against people like you and others from this site.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Ha ha! If they round me up, I shall be honoured to have Jehovah speak through me, but somehow, I don’t think I’m a candidate for that sort of honour and I hardly think they will find me of much use, or profit much from my demise if at all. In fact, the more I learn here, the more I would like to be found good enough to be used. I have little enough to offer off my own bat, and so to speak before those that demand it would validate my strange life that I have had. What more could one ask? As we often joke, if we are sitting at the lowest table ( or in my case told, to sit at the lowest table, not to move and to keep quiet or else) then we can only go up. I don’t really dwell on it much. We have to develop the thinking that we need to put no value on our lives, but on giving the witness no matter what the consequence. Being older in years, We have a prime motivator in our lives that helps get a balance. On the one hand we have the opportunity to speak for Jehovah, and for us older ones, the British ‘government’, who have abdicated all control of health and social care and said in effect, pay or die. Well, only the rich can afford that sort of money. Like the Russian soldiers at Stalingrad in 1942. They either went forward to the German machine guns, or back to the Russian machine guns. It sort of makes it easier to take what we know is the right direction!

            • The Raven

              They can’t promise me eternity. They can’t promise me they can raise my dead family. They can’t promise me a damn thing I would place any value on including my own life in their miserable concentration camp so what’s my incentive to obey them and forfeit the promises of the ONE who can? ZILCH.
              I’m in it for the long haul.

          • Marvin W

            This letter just smells like it came from a GB helper from the headquarters.

            • Daisy

              Writing department?

            • The Raven

              LOL! Probably right!

            • Marvin W

              This letter has its roots from w04 2/15 p16 of the Watchtower

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Marvin, All of you who think this person has no ambitions apart from debunking Robert and proving him a liar could well be right.

              I have a little bit of hope somewhere inside of me that whispers in my ear saying , ‘Perhaps he is a little lost at the moment and the lies have got to him and he has started to think for himself more and more’

              I am probably in the minority but let’s hope this individual reflects on the positive things that have been written about him and dare I say it, the clouds that have been blocking the light from Jehovah are suddenly blown away by a light refreshing wind.

              Gosh I did ramble on a bit there, but I am sure you understand where I am coming from.

        • Richard Long

          Hey! I was that guy. lol Not an elder, but I knew what I knew, and the discussion was only going to flow one way. It’s arrogance of the variety that enjoys the aroma of it’s own flatulence mixed generously with three fingers of delusion, my own personal recipe, that’s how I recognize it.

          • The Raven

            Uh…okay, man. lol

      • Burt Reynolds

        I’m sure he will be reading it Ken. From what he wrote he seems to be a regular reader!

      • Jamie Mac

        Hi Ken, Lets hope also that he tells us more and why he ignored the WT’s advise and corresponded with Robert in the first place.

        • Peaceful Waters

          I was curious about that too, why Robert was even contacted and the WT’s advice as you said was ignored. There is lots of love to be had here. If he was casting a net however I would suggest he should have left it open. By telling Robert firmly to not respond kinda puts a kibosch on catching anything.

        • Burt Reynolds

          I feel that he was ‘bravely making a stand’ reaching into satan’s mouth to snatch away a brother! Do you recall when the blood issue really came to the fore in the early 70s and we were asked to fix an appointment with our GP to go and explain our stand and have the ‘no blood’ card put in our medical record? ( did I get a scowl from my GP for wasting his time). Likewise the much flagged persecution of Rutherford et al, being taken into the jaws of Satan only to be released a short time later, to fame and glory, being ‘used’ by Jehovah to fulfil prophesy! What an honour! It’s the same psychological bent, putting ones self in danger to rescue another and all the kudos that brings. I can’t even imagine the adulation Rutherford would have enjoyed on his release from clink. Could you imagine what a prize getting Robert back into the congregation would be?! Also of course, this brother was going into the den of Satan to fight evil, bravely putting himself at risk. This is why he said not to respond as he did not want, and neither would he ever allow himself to be, influenced. He has the ‘truth!’ and nothing will pursued him otherwise. We have all felt it….’bravely go forth’…we used to sing about it….try to, at least ( what a droning that was!)

    • Daisy

      I sympathise with this mailer too, as he’s unaware, totally oblivious that the “apostates like you” he’s railing against, is a passionate Truth seeker…and truth seekers are always working to learn more in order to help others. May Robert continue to produce his truth drug!
      Knowing the truth a lot better than I did before I was “seduced” – I can only say that all the objections and scriptures the mailer included, can so easily be returned to himself and his ethos, if that makes sense..

      • The Raven

        Being willing to listen is what brought me to the truth to begin with. That same willingness is what led me to find more. Some folks have had that taken out of them through the mind bending programs and rote of the wto. They mistake narrow mindedness and stubbornness for staunch support of their faith. But faith requires knowledge and they’ve slammed the door shut on that. They have made themselves the purveyors of truth and anyone that doubts that is “corrected” or thrown out. My sympathy can only go so far with folks who refuse to listen at all. What can anyone do with them when they not only won’t listen but attack you for trying to help them? Only one thing…pray for them.

        • Richard Long

          It was such a bitter pill to swallow, having been shown ( by Robert ) that while under the delusion we (I) had made an idol of the ORG. Horrorifying, really, a repulsive notion if there ever was one. All the more confusing why joker’s like Francis just attach to a new idol and start railing about the WT idol instead of eschewing idols all together.

          • The Raven

            People search for an anchor and wind up with a millstone if they’re not careful.

      • Burt Reynolds

        I get high on Roberts truth drug daily. It must be ‘Angel dust’.

        • Richard Long

          Or maybe “a little higher than the angels” dust?

    • Huldah

      That sort of seeking to bend the truth to suit your own will is an example of supreme egotism. It’s why so much is made of being a lover of truth in the Bible. Even that those who succumb to the delusion cannot be saved because they do not display a love of the truth.
      If you are willing to put the truth first, no matter what it costs you, you have true humility and that leads to life.

      Me first-twisted truths-pride
      Truth first-pure truth-humility

      • The Raven

        Thank you for that, Huldah! Clear and concise!
        🙂

      • Burt Reynolds

        It’s like having toothache and trying to deny you have it! I quite like that analagy (though I say it myself). One can just envisage Robert with a pair of pliars extracting lies. It’s a painful and bloody business for many witnesses to undergo and unfortunately, there is no anaesthetic for it!

        • Huldah

          True, great analogy. I’m sure we all can relate to it.

          But let me add that there is something to the character and courage of someone who is still willing to face the thing they fear because they know it is right to do so.

          Where would we be if the apostles had not faced the truth that their Messiah was a lowly carpenter who died a degrading death on a torture stake and not a triumphant king, come to free them from the tyranny of Rome?

          All the Jews who became Christians had to swallow their national pride and accept the teachings of a man branded a criminal by their leadership. They would not be raised to glory, but would carry a torture stake as he did. Seems Jehovah’s Witnesses are at the same crossroads.

    • Noe Namely

      Thanks Burt. I didn’t know you had, had Elder issues in the past. This is pretty much what happened to me. I was completely stumbled by a few things that happened within 6+ months of returning to meetings and working toward participating in the Great Work as I’ve always called the Door to Door work.

      I went as far as to create a few different screen names to obscure my identity and prevent any of these Elders from learning about me visiting this site after learning of many changes in Watchtower Policy after my return. I began having deep, deep feelings that I had been right about Watchtower’s New Light,1914 & 1975 and a few more. Now, I no longer care as much if they find out I am a frequent visitor of this site. I have a huge JW family of over 70 odd people who have spent their entire lives as JWs. They range in age from kids to their mid 80s. The thought of not loosing them once consumed me. It was literally making me very ill, loosing large blocks of sleep and not eating right. After almost 3 years & no longer caring if the Elders find out, I am coming around to finding ways to help open the eyes of my own JW family, a few I hope!. It will be the challenge of my life. I will need to work slowly and present the new information to them in a way that causes them to think independently and let the new info sink in at their own pace. That’s going to be the hardest part for me. Remaining under the radar and staying in the fold to share more as I learn more seems to be my plan for now. Staying away from meetings is wrong and makes things much worse on a personal level. It took me a good while to arrive at this way of seeing things. After discovering how Watchtower had been misleading us for so long, it turned my world upside down a couple of times before being able to forgive the GB and cleaning up my heart as best I could with prayer and more reading. Thanks to some earlier advice from Robert, I’ve made another change in my life plan. I’ve been reading more & more but struggle to remember much of it or plug it into things I thought I knew from before. It’s a daunting task for this brittle old brain. I now see & know that Robert was exactly right! So much to learn with such limited abilities. I find myself wishing for some kind of new type of study guide outlining how things are now while comparing the actual Truth to the Truth of the Watchtower Society. A sort of “Truth for Dummies Collection” by topic. If you know of specific materials that would help me focus & stay on more of a finer point, I would really appreciate knowing about them? Best!

  • Craig Knight

    Nice article Robert! An example of how in the dark JW’s are. I called my 88 year old JW mother a few weeks ago. Of course she has shunned me. I called her and asked her what she thought of the child abuse in the Organization. She said “Oh, that’s just a lot of propaganda!. I also told her that 607 is wrong and all she could say is “What does 20 years off matter? The problem with JW’s and why it is so hard to wake up is because they do have the truth as far as the basics go. So they assume the rest of it is all truth also. This trap keeps them locked up. Pretty sad situation. It took me 25 years of scratching my head until I found Brother King. I’m so thankful Jehovah has someone to guide the lost sheep.

    • Burt Reynolds

      I think twenty years would make a great deal of difference to Jehovah, who carries out his plans at his appointed time. I imagine the only time that Jehovah had to wait on someone else’s time was during Mary’s labour. You know what women are like!

      • Craig Knight

        Hi Burt!
        Yeah we all have to wait for our women. Ha! The 587/586 date has so much support from archaeology but how many brothers and sisters have been disfellowshipped for even asking questions about the 607 date. It’s really disgusting! The old Aid book had all the characters like Nebuchadnezzar and others changed by 20 years to match their 607 lie. If you compare the dates to secular history everything is off by 20 years. WT purposely changed these dates in the Aid book. I’m not sure about the Insight Books I haven’t checked that but that is just deceptive. Nothing new I suppose.

        I am new to this forum. Thanks for responding.

        Craig

        • Jamie Mac

          Hi Craig, it’s great to have you here with us. Don’t wander away 🙂

          • Craig Knight

            Thanks! I enjoy reading the forum. So I will definitely be around. Good chatting with you my Brother.

        • The Raven

          The 1988 editions of the Insight On The Scriptures books I have state 607 B.C.E. for the fall of Jerusalem.

          • Craig Knight

            Hi Raven! Yeah I figured that hasn’t been corrected. The WT will collapse if they change that. My point was that they have lied about the date of Nebuchadnezzar’s reignal year also the year his father took the throne etc. If you compare WT’s dates to secular dates they are all off by 20 years when compared to secular dating. Some fancy deceptive altering of dates to try to support their 607 garbage. Look up in the insight books when Nebuchadnezzar started his reign and the dates of his fathers life. All the dates around those important people have been altered by 20 years. I have a copy I made years ago I can send if if you want to get me your direct email.

            • The Raven

              When I read your comment I dug out the books and had to look. There it was. It is under the topic”The Appointed Times of the Nations”
              I have a number of very old books some dating back to the thirties which I haven’t looked at in decades. It was those books given to me by an elder in the early eighties which made me compare the later literature and found a lot of inconsistencies. But that was attributed to “new light”.
              The secular dates have been a point of contention with witnesses for a very long time obviously they don’t want their “formula” messed with, anymore than their explanation for over lapping generations.

            • Craig Knight

              I can’t stand that new light excuse. It’s so lame. I think the GB is going to run out of light bulbs pretty soon. They should say new lies! LOL.

            • The Raven

              Yep. I know. 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              The term new light, infers a tacit acceptance from the congregation that Jehovah allowed a misunderstanding of his word to occur. That would not happen. Jehovah cannot lie. Neither does he draw people to him through half truths. That is different from allowing the lie to exist because that is clearly obvious to those that are seeking truth to see. It is not hidden, but requires insight and humility to see….or just a plain gift I sometimes feel for myself, given in exasperation!
              The watchtower put the blame for their presumptuous teachings on the shoulders of Jehovah in order to explain away their failure, intentional or otherwise lacking because of their stubbornness. That new light is a deceptive explanation is also borne out by the bible that shows that the light ( revealed by Jehovah) getting brighter does not refer to a change in insight, or the taking of a different path as in the issue of, perhaps, blood fractions, but refers instead to a more holistic insight of the issue or revelation in terms of appreciation and not necessarily, understanding. Understanding is a by-product of appreciation and follows on, not preceeds. A subtle but significant point. We appreciate Jehovah’s qualities, but do not understand, even conceive within ourselves, the depth of them.

            • The Raven

              I feel like I’ve found a treasure chest buried in a garbage dump in the middle of the worst parts of Sodom and Gomorrah under an angry hornet’s nest to boot.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Ouch!

            • The Raven

              LOL! I think you of all folks here know exactly what I mean. Can you see a reply button the black curtains comments? I cannot reply to his comment to me. I’m wondering if I’m the only one seeing this?

            • Burt Reynolds

              I can only see one comment from black curtain and there is no reply button.

            • The Raven

              Thanks Burt. I thought it was just me. Robert says there is nothing awaiting moderation so I don’t know what the problem is. I thought I was blocked. lol !

            • Burt Reynolds

              It may be that black curtain withdrew his reply for editing, and which may automatically eliminate the reply button, and then decided not to repost. I’m sure he will resurface!

            • Jamie Mac

              lovely description, no-one could possibly better that 🙂

              Thank goodness we really do not have to go those extremes to find the TTATT

            • Craig Knight

              I remember reading what Charles Russell said. New light never contradicts old light. Too bad the wizzards at WT didn’t listen to him on that point. My Son and I talk about this new light thing. When did Jesus ever teach his disciples thru error? Never of course. Russell bragged about his 1914 date being Armageddon and said the dates were God’s dates. Then He later blamed the poor Bible students for saying they got it wrong. I heard a recording from Fred Franz after the 1975 failure. He arrogantly said “We never said it you did! Speaking to a large crowd at one of the big conventions. You talk about stubbornness and arrogance. I have also heard them say oh this is just to sift out the disloyal ones. Wow! They tell lies then blame it on the foot soldiers and act like it’s God’s will to stumble people. Jehovah hates lies and arrogance and those that practice such things, especially those who supposedly take the lead. The Bible says that Gods word is a lamp at Psalms 119:105 New International Version
              Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path. So New light also applies to individual Christians personal growth as they study hard and see things more clearly so we can dodge pit falls of all kinds. The WT dictator’s meanwhile are busy tossing stumbling blocks in front of the poor JW’s. I liked what you said about appreciation.

            • The Raven

              Deuteronomy 18:22
              “When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’

            • Craig Knight

              Just 2 verses above that at Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.” It’s a very serious matter to make prophetic utterances and they turn out false. Just think of the probably hundreds of thousands that have been stumbled by these men. My Grandfather was of the anointed but his brother John left the bible students because of their constantly changing dates. There is a lot of blood guilt on the hands of the Governing Body. I would not want to be in their shoes.

            • The Raven

              I agree. Several of us have been blocked at the door for refusing to buy into the lies. I wondered about that for a long time before I found this site and Robert’s large body of work on the topic. It’s one thing to know you are being lied to, another to know what truth actually is.

            • Craig Knight

              Well you know how WT is all proud of unity in their Corporation uhh Organization? Guess what! If you disagree they kick your butt out of the Kingdom Hall after you spent your whole life slaving for them. That’s why they are united and have the same line of thought. If you question what they believe then the SS show up at your door and we all know what happens then. By force and strong arm tactics is how unity of thought is maintained. Isn’t that sad.

            • The Raven

              Yes, I know about compliance at any cost. Many here do. I also know that people who set themselves up as judges will face severe punishment. I don’t worry too much about the heap of coals they’ve piled on themselves. That includes followers who refuse to see the truth as well. It isn’t done overtly most of the time but even those that know the truth can be just as judgmental towards those who have been disfellowshipped, left or never were allowed to join. But, it isn’t on you or me, man. It’s on them. I try not to be bitter about it since I know we will all have a beating coming anyway. Some more than others. My hope is to survive this mess. At this point, I am happy just to have found some very good insight into matters which have eluded me for decades.

            • The Raven

              Let me add that although they have had that mindset most of the fault lies with their leaders since many accepted the arrangement based on faith alone. I know they should have examined to see if it was truth but they were so happy to learn the basics they didn’t. Some claim even though they knew it was lies that didn’t stop them from joining either. Each has his own views on the matter and I don’t think any one is any better or worse then the other. I’d guess that Jehovah will be the one who determines whether or not we are His. But there is still time for that. In the meantime, the best we can all do is study His word, build our faith and support each other.

            • Craig Knight

              Well said! The Bible is clear that those in leadership will have heavier judgement. But Jehovah is the final judge as you say. The WT Society has done many good things like break up the lies of Constantine and make Jehovah’s name known through out the world. That’s why we all struggle so hard because it seems like the WT has such a good portion of truth. Russell was way ahead of his time even tho He wrote some wild stuff like The Finished Mystery book. But God used him and got people to open their eyes about God’s purpose. But they got so much wrong also. Therein lies the difficulty in getting out. This young couple on youtube recently left the Org and the young lady said that she would never get involved in any other religion if the JW’s are wrong. So now they turned to Buddhism and others have become atheists etc. I did the same thing and got involved in Buddhism etc, for many years. So I’m not to proud of my decisions twenty five years ago. Some of us have to wallow in the sewer before we seek out God again. I was a miserable person to be sure. We all have our horror stories. But all we can do is carry on and be faithful and help each other like you say. It feels so good to have Jehovah back in our lives and know He is helping his sheep. What will happen to the Org only God knows.

            • The Raven

              I took much the same route but also got very heavily involved in the study of occultism among other things. It did serve one purpose though, I became very good at spotting demonic teachings and “spiritism” among even those who professed the faith. But through it all my one constant remained the basic truths I had learned. It became the standard by which I viewed matters and to this day it still is. It is very difficult for me to follow any man or organization given a miserable time in the Catholic church when I was young, but I have found Robert’s work exemplary. Explanation where there was none. No more reading a prophecy and remaining baffled at its meaning. No more wondering how the pieces fit and why. Now if I could just figure people out, Id have it made.

            • Craig Knight

              Yeah I learned a lot about Buddhism and studied it very hard. I must have read 100 books on the subject. I too have learned how sickening the metaphysical world is. It’s a wicked trap that appears all peaceful. A lot of homosexuals and Lesbians can be priests in the Buddhist world. Buddhism is like an ostrich with his head in the ground. Just live every day in the present moment and be happy. So we learn from our mistakes thanks to Jehovah’s loving mercy. I too always had the Kingdom hope in my heart all that time. Now my grown boys are studying the Bible and discussing it every day. My older Son is happy also to have found Robert’s book. We can’t stop discussing it. When I was lost in the world I always had deep sadness that my two Son’s were without God. So that’s all changed to my great delight.

            • The Raven

              I’m glad to know that your kids are also interested. That’s very comforting indeed.

            • The Raven

              Funny thing I remembered about Buddhism; every follower I ever spoke with had a different idea of what it was. I couldn’t sit still for a minute let alone navel gaze for hours and I kind of figured then I would never achieve Nirvana. That was back in the seventies when all my friends were still listening to the Moody Blues.

            • Craig Knight

              Yeah there are a lot of different types of Buddhism. The most popular is called Pureland Buddhism. All you have to do is chant to Amida Buddha who rules in heaven in a place called pureland. It’s like the Christian idea of heaven but you must have strong faith in Amida Buddha before you can get in. It’s just as crazy as Tibetan Buddhism. They don’t believe in God but they believe in being brought back thru reincarnation. So it’s all craziness that people follow to not have to answer to the true living God of the Bible. It’s a trap of the Devil to be sure.

            • The Raven

              I agree. It’s all a mind job and we wind up just another rat in their cage if we aren’t careful about this. But being conscious of our spiritual need has led some of us through the devils corridors on our way out to the truth. The fact that we found Jehovah, or should I say He found us, is all that matters now.

            • Burt Reynolds

              As you already know, People are as individual as their faces, yet operate from the same base, the ID. It is supposed that the connections in any one brain exceed the stars in the universe, and as with DNA, it only takes one change to make an entirely different experience, and thus personality, of life. Thus it is that Jehovah has made an infinite variety of irritants for you, to keep you searching for an eternity. Your only hope is to adopt the Snoopy approach to life.

            • The Raven

              This is something I’ve known for a very long time especially among folks who look for the answers to life’s greatest questions.

            • KB

              I liked the point you made about the new light not contradicting the old light. Lol. They are all over the place with this new light, and its a continuous contradiction. Welcome to the group.

            • Craig Knight

              Thanks KB! Yeah there’s all kinds of new light and what makes it even better now is that they are not directed by Gods spirit. How then are they anointed with Gods spirit and called to heavenly life? Isn’t that Gods spirit? What’s the difference between being Gods channel and being directed by God’s spirit. Didn’t Jesus say He would be with his people until the time of the end? Where does new light come from then? It’s just men guessing as it turns out.

            • The Raven

              I think you’ll like this article on the matter.

              Does the Light Get Brighter & Brighter?
              https://e-watchman.com/light-get-brighter/

            • Craig Knight

              That new light article was great! Thanks for sharing. I save King’s articles in my documents on my computers.

            • The Raven

              I should start doing that since I have to dig up the backyard every time I forget to bookmark one.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Welcome Craig. It’s difficult to keep up with who is new and who has just re-emerged. We seem to have someone new every week now. If you read the book on the home page, it gives you good insight into the anomilies of the watchtower and what the prophesy refers to. I have never delved into the dates much myself apart from 1914. I just get confused with chronology. I just concentrate on the outcome and what that means. Having said that, there is good archeological evidence around Nebuchadnezzer so his chronology is easier for people like me to piece together. I have learnt so much on this site over the time I’ve been here and the straightforward explanations form a miracle of understanding. Just see for yourself!

          • Craig Knight

            If you are referring to Kings Book Jehovah Himself Has Become King. I have read it twice and still want to reread it. Yeah chronology study can give you a fierce headache especially trying follow WT’s pretzel twisting insanity. But there are so many pottery pieces found from secular sources like banks etc and they all agree with the date 587/586 for Jerusalem’s destruction. What makes WT’s chronology hard to follow is their insistence that the 7 times of Nebuchadnezzar were more than just the 7 years He became a chewer of the cud. As Robert has explained that applied to just Nebuchadnezzar not some 7 x 360 days = 2520 years which Russell got from the 2nd Day Adventists. I’m really digging this site. I spend a lot of time reading Roberts articles and I love this forum.

            • Vasilios Agio

              Well said craig . Brother Roberts book is a mind opener . I’ve read it at least 5 times and it’s amazing how well he understands prophecy and scriptures . I think we Steven all very fortunate that we have uncovered satans lie 1914 and this is truly life saving . I think everyone in this little congregation has had there eyes opened and we r truly keeping on the watch for christs true return , thx for adding your thoughts , u bring out some great points .

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Vas , 5 times , I am humbled , I have only read it through twice so far.

            • Vasilios Agio

              I first started looking at brother Roberts you tube videos , I’ve seen all of them more than once , I was searching and I came across brother Robert and so o emailed him at some point for some personal info about my situation and that’s when he offered me his book . I read it a couple of times and then I changed my Apple ID and lost all my books and songs coz I changed my password and had major issues do then I emailed brother Robert and told him and he sent me a link and I recovered his book and read it s few times more and I was just amazed , like being freed , such a good feeling . At the beginning I was unsure about what Robert was writing about but as time went on and the org is been in courts and stuff coupled with reading the prophetic books the likes of Isaiah and jeramiah , Amos and now I see a new picture , a true pic then I discovered 2 thes 2 about Paul’s earnings and it just all clicked instantly . I got so sick of line upon line , command upon command in the org , documenting field service times etc etc . I just feel like we have experienced Holy Spirit in this little congregation , there’s someth much more spiritual here than any meeting I ever went too . There’s a light here that doesn’t change just as Jehovah doesn’t change . It’s firm .

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Vas, you mentioned you have seen all of Roberts’s you tube video’s. If that is the case then you must have watched the one titled ‘Do you believe in nonsense’. That one is my favourite, very clever and clearly show’s how wrong the trinity is.

            • Vasilios Agio

              Yup I remember that one , I didn’t really appeal to me coz I don’t believe in the trinity so there are a couple I mite not have watched all the way thru . My most fav was the governing body one and a recent one called trust in Jehovah which is a really upbuilding and very clear and informative video but it’s quite in depth . I watch it over and over coz Roberts knowledge of scripture is greater than mine so it takes s few runs to get it all in . Most of his vids I’ve watched several times . I wish he did more regularly I used to wait in anticipation for his next video . Regarding the trinity , I just see that as stupidity , Jesus never claimed to be God , and he is the son and as Robert mentioned in that video as I recall he did say that the father always comes first so , I’ve never believed in the trinity it never made sense to me and I’ve never believed in 1914 since the day I stepped into a Kingdom Hall . Everyone was telling me that Christ is now here ruling and I was like … u got to be kidding me !! How stupid ! . But now that I’ve been reading a lot of Roberts explanations it all falls together . Btw before I found brother Robert I came across a guy who wrote the REPORT . It’s very similar in a way to what we believe but I decided to follow Robert because he’s more progressive and his book Jehovah has become king just blew my mind . Very in depth and knowledgable and I think every witness should get a copy and read it twice at least .

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Vas, perhaps we should set up a cart outside various Kingdom Halls armed with several hundred copies of Roberts book. Now that would be something, I wonder how they would react.

            • Craig Knight

              Hi Vasilios!
              I know I can’t put his book down either. I have a copy on my Kindle and I always read it. We know the clear ring of truth and when we read something or hear something that sounds like a rusty clang then we should question it and study it until we find that clear ring of truth. When I first read Kings book I was just amazed and filled with joy that somebody has such sensible insights. Yes I used to feel like I was on death row until Kings book. Looking forward to Christs return feels much better than fearing it like I used to do. Thanks for your kind words.

        • Arvid Fløysand

          Hello Craig 🙂
          WELCOME…i guess its time to holler for Joseph to bring in the beautiful welcoming-table 🙂

          • Craig Knight

            Hello Arvid!
            That one goes over my head but I’d like to hear the meaning 🙂

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Hehe…the” meaning” goes like this : when a new person arrive on this forum…and step in with nice posetive and humble comment…well…it makes all of us happy…and as you know,a picture can somethimes “speak” a thousand words…Joseph is a brother not only with a big heart but also known for bringing illustrations and movies that fits any comments ore events 🙂
              So in this case i know Joseph got a very nice picture to show you how we feel about getting one more awakend brother on the “team” 🙂

            • Craig Knight

              Arvid
              Thanks that means a lot! I’m happy to be here among awakened Christians who love the Kingdom promise and to be able to discuss openly these subjects. It’s very healing.

            • Joseph

              Welcome Craig , and all other new ones I may have missed, https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/345be6a51acbbb462133404e80608ee3b6f2c496bf7e0624c75b61261afe67ed.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/64ad3182d3bbca03e985adaa3e933f49121e1ce72a113556a00ee6e79dbe0344.jpg those “hungering and thirsting for righteousness,” pull up a chair and enjoy the fellowship here at Jehovah’s virtual congregation of loving souls. Jehovah is training up a small army of truth seekers, and peeling the scales from our eyes and making the Bible pop with magnificent color and insight !

            • Craig Knight

              Thank you Joseph! Since I joined this forum it feels like I am part of a congregation again. I didn’t think that I would ever feel a part of the Christian Congregation again. So I am thrilled to be here.

            • Joseph

              Awesome, we’re thrilled to have ya!!

          • Joseph

            Thanks for the poke, I’ll set it up as soon as I clean up all the mess Francis and his 3 alter-egos left…….. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/77a9873549e89352a8e8bb26355ebf068664e7a4f7b0b084608761e1408f1a5f.jpg

            • KB

              Waiting on the 4th to show up any minute now.

            • The Raven

              Let me give you a hand with that, brother.
              🙂

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Joseph, we will all be sheltering under something like that in future days. It reminds of the scripture referring to the tent of god being with mankind. It will have to be a bit bigger though 🙂

              We all might be surprised to see who is sheltering under it. Maybe Francis and his 3 companions 🙂

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Hi Jamie 🙂
              It is true that the “tent” in Revelation 21:3 will provide shelter for mankind…the “tent” of God is the Holy tabernacle…wich referring to the spiritual “temple”…so in other words Jehovah is going to unite heaven and earth by “building” a new “tent-tabernacle-temple” of 144 000 “stones” …and just like the tabernacle in Moses dayes was in the midst of Jehovahs chosen people,so it again will be…but far better than ever before 🙂
              This new Holy “tent” will in love provide and cover every need for mankind…jus as the next verse so beautyful tells us :”And He will wipe out every tear from their eyes,and death will be no more,neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.The former things have passed away.” Rev.21:4…i love that verse

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Arvid, lovely to talk to you again. Thanks for correcting me, I get my scriptures mixed up from time to time 🙂

              Yes rev 21:4 is also one of my favourites. I hope that scripture fulfilment is not to far away. Sometimes it feels so close and yet so far away at the same time

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Maybe it is closer than we are aware of 🙂
              The spiritual temple will soon be ready…the last 7000 “stones” seems to be prepared in the “quarry” outside the “city”…when put in place…no “sound” will be heard…(1 Kings 6:7)

            • Jamie Mac

              I recommend Cillit Bang for the cleaning. If I could talk to you about it I would be shouting at the top of my voice about it.

              check this out and you will see what I mean

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM98wbXFAzc

            • Richard Long

              Hey, JS! Back in the US now. Just so I can mentally catalog, can you please tell me the names of Francis’ alter-egos?

            • The Raven

              Burt stated that he has appeared as Josiah, Julian, even as mary ellen and john boy. The terrible Truth was also suspected of being him by myself and others here. They are more familiar with this matter than I.
              Go here to see what happened:
              https://e-watchman.com/time-will-come/

            • Burt Reynolds

              Sorry, those were not his aliases, I was just irritating him by using the wrong name. It’s a sort of English social snub of contempt. Not very nice, but generally better than using the common English vernacular of displeasure, and which is a whole lot more direct but not so likely to be retained on this site, a bit like ol whatshisname himself!

            • The Raven

              Oh geez, I thought you were serious! But, it didn’t matter. His/her actions got Robert’s attention.

            • The Raven

              How was your cruise? Did you and your family have a good time?

            • Richard Long

              Amazing, Raven! And to top it off, my girls, writers both, will be touring Hemingway House in key West in about an hour. Lots to share, will do, when home later in the week. Anyone heard from Beverly?

            • The Raven

              I’m so glad you enjoyed yourselves. Everyone needs R and R. I haven’t seen any comments from Bev in a few weeks now. Maybe someone else here can tell you more about that. The Keys are on my list of places to see one day, God willing. Have fun!

            • Richard Long

              This is what your family has to look forward to. These pix are sunset pier. Travel tip: come in WINTER!!!!! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/07aa1476ccd3994c2936ba8e41441880518d67a62dd6e0cd50a08ab4659b9b66.jpg

            • The Raven

              Beautiful! I bet you are having so much fun! What I would give to be out on a boat right now with a cooler full of all the things I like family, friends and a couple of lines in the water!

            • Richard Long
            • The Raven

              One fine day, man. Lucky dog you. 🙂

            • Daisy

              IMO I think Beverly has told us all to “do one” hahaha.
              I will miss her deeply as I loved her total unashamed naturalness and total unabashed honesty about herself and her feelings. No pretensions with that beautiful lady, not that I’m very good at judging/analysing folk or anything so that’s how I see her anyway. We all love you Bev (smiley face if I could find one). X

            • Southern ShaSha

              Thank you Daisy. I was trying just last night to figure out a way to inquire about Beverly, not knowing if something had been said or some issue that was none of my business. If she has left I personally am broken hearted. Loved her much, loved her honesty! Wish I had a way to contact her!

            • Southern ShaSha

              I have tried desperately not to offend or cross anyone on this site, or anywhere for that matter. And I have done so on a few occasions, only to regret it afterword. We all have sinful tendencys, along with limited knowledge. But love toward one another is vital in any circumstance, otherwise our efforts in moving forward are in vain! I must admit I am so….guilty!!!

            • Daisy

              Don’t be! And don’t be worried about it, as the fact that you are aware of offending shows the love within you and Paul’s words about clashing symbols don’t appear to fit you in any way whatsoever.
              God loves strong women!
              I’m awfully glad I’m not a tent maker as I’m sure I’d be up to no good with a tent pin in the middle of the night the way some men carry on …IMO!

            • Arvid Fløysand

              “Jael the wife of Heber took a tent pin and a hammer in her hand.Then while he was fast asleep and exhausted she stealthly approached him and drove the pin through his temples and beat it into the ground and he died” (Judges 4:21 )

            • Southern ShaSha

              Tent pin, ouch. Arvid went into some detail on that one. ha ha

            • Daisy

              Haha, having a rest, just seen you…yes…imo I think Arvid’s still a Viking at heart..

            • Arvid Fløysand

              It is true Daisy…a part of me is still Viking…but when you mentioned that God loves strong women and even tent pin…well…who else than Jael comes to mind? 🙂
              Btw…i belive that account is prophetic about the last days laying ahead of us.
              The last dayes “Sisera” is going to seek refuge amoung some people where he feel safe…but its gonna be a trap for him :-)…there are many interesting things in that account (Judges chapter 4 and5)…like who was Jaels relatives? (4:11) where did they stay and why? Why did Sisera trust Jael?Who was Debora and Barak?

              WT would not go any further than just ask …what can we learn from this account and how can we imitate Debora,Jael and Barak?

              But if this is telling us something that is going to unfold in a much grater scale in near future…well than we are talking about some really exiting stuff 🙂

            • Daisy

              ShaSha…she posted her mail address a while ago.
              Its:
              bevkenyon11@icloud.com
              I’m sure that she would love to hear from you so just have a go! Sending love to you from u.k. 😀

            • Southern ShaSha

              Thank you Daisy, I shall try and contact her. Much love to you as well.
              Joyce

            • Richard Long

              Did something happen while I was away or is it still the Brian thing? Ok to answer on email, Daisy, if there is more I should know.

            • Daisy

              Richard…I’ve posted her e mail address for ShaSha…so you could mail her yourself, bypassing me if that’s okay.
              We’re all concerned but she’s one strong lady band with a mind of her own!

            • Joseph

              https://disqus.com/by/disqus_JMVAcSuA5k/
              Look in RK’s thread to find the conversation.
              Welcome almost home, hope you enjoyed your trip!

            • Richard Long

              Thanks, I caught up. Not sure that guy is Francis, but definitely cut from the same cloth in the same pattern with the same scissors. Will have to defer to those of you know him better, while being content Robert has removed the stumbling block.

              We sailed on Carnival Splendor out of Ft. Lauderdale, made our way alongside Cuba (was a thrill to see her starboard) to Amber Cove, Dominican Republic where the girls and their companions had a beautiful dolphin encounter, then made way to Grand Turk for a beach day, then made way to Half Moon Cay, an island owned by Carnival, for a very interesting Stingray encounter, lunch and beach day, then to Nassau where our youngest accompanied us to the Queen’s Steps and Fort Fincastle, while the 18 +’s explored the fascinating biome known as “Senior Frog’s” for some temporarily legal day drinking. Dopey kids, what are you gonna do with them, right? Then back to Ft. Lauderdale and a LAesque parking lot disguised as a motorway from Homestead to Key West where we toured Hemingway Home and made the acquaintance of about 50 Nephelim felines and virtually saw Jehovah in a Sunset. Driving home to KY now (not ME, Deb’s turn at the wheel).

            • Joseph

              Wow- sounds like you guys had a wonderful time! I would love to explore Cuba, love the people, culture & food! Ive been almost all over the Carribean , some places more beautiful than others. If I had to pick my favorite it would be…. Grace Bay in Turks and Caicos (Beaches Turks & Caicos Key West Luxury Village All Inclusive) hands down!!
              Great place for the family or just you and your wife!

              https://goo.gl/maps/n6bYSnGGm2H2

            • Joseph
            • Richard Long

              Cuba is Deb’s next dream trip. Hope the US doesn’t blow up the new, more open relationship, because its going to be a couple of years before we can save up for another.

            • Joe the cosmologist
            • Joseph

              Hiya my buddy Joe Joe,!!! How have you been? Miss your comments, I hope life has been good to you!
              Yeah, lve been on that beach! Unfortunately only fools stand there when jets come in, not me I sit at the outside pub and watch from a safe distance!! ?????

            • Joe the cosmologist

              Hi Joe, I’m doing okay. I just got back from vacation in the USA. It’s still fresh in my mind. I replied to your post because you had mentioned the carribean and I was in Puerto Rico for four days. I spent 3 weeks in New york, but I was living in long island, which is about a 90 minute train ride into the heart of the city. Then I did Fort Lauderdale for 2 days, PR for 3 days and South Beach Miami for 3 days. I basically speak to Daisy everyday. To me she is like a sister, mother and and best friend all rolled into one. I really appreciate her concern and genuine love for me. There were times, when I was really down and she helped me get through it all. I am forever grateful for her love and support.

            • Joseph

              Wow, How cool is that! Yeah daisy is a sweetheart and we’re lucky to have her as a friend! I only wish I had more time to correspond with emails more often. Hopefully she understands.
              I have family in Brooklyn & Florida! Parts of Porto Rico are very beautiful, Fort Lauderdale is dangerous with all those almost nude girls everywhere ???☠and S.Beach Miami has high crime against tourists. But it looks like you survived!!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Mind you don’t blow a fuse!

            • Joe the cosmologist

              South beach is dangerous for tourists?

            • Joseph

              Tourists should be careful with their wallets and purses, and never ever leave valuables unwatched on the beach at any time, or leave a purse on a table or hanging on a chair when you go for a swim, drink or to the bathroom. Because when you get back it will be gone!

            • Joe the cosmologist

              I think that warning applies to everywhere you go. You don’t leave your belongs lying around anywere. But I guess the beaches here in Sydney are a lot safer. You don’t really have to worry about any of your item’s being stolen.

            • Joe the cosmologist

              New York and Miami were my favourite spots. Fort Lauderdale and Puerto Rico were not that great.

            • Daisy d

              Cheque’s in the post towards your next holiday Cosmo!!…in UK I hope!
              Thank you for the links today, and the kingdom songs… Love them. X

    • KB

      They will have to answer to Jehovah for their deceptions. Oh, and the Watchtower is the king of propaganda. We are all very thankful for brother King.

    • then tack on 20 years to 1914 and say whats it matter. obviously a lot, thats the point

  • Huldah

    The “my family and I” reference from the questionner reminds me of my husbands family. So self assured. Has the ministry become yet another talisman like the temple that the Jews clung to as proof that God would never bring destruction upon them?
    Isn’t there more to it than get your 8hrs a month and you’re saved?

    • Burt Reynolds

      That reminds me of my first girlfriend , Cathy. She was an evangelist and in her bible she had written ‘I was saved on (date)’. Even then, I thought it a bit presumptuous as though one can do no wrong once they are ‘saved’. It’s not a lot different in the congregations today. The times I heard, ‘You’re going to die come the tribulation…’ Ergo, ‘I’m going to live’.

      • Huldah

        So many have come to trust a leadership that tells them, “Here’s a set of rituals you must perform to earn everlasting life. Do this, this, and this and you’re set.”

        • Burt Reynolds

          That’s a very good synopsis of my induction into the watchtower.

  • If this person has written to Robert, it is because he already has some doubts; If not, he would have followed the society’s recommendations to have nothing to do with the apostates!
    He says he does not want an answer, but he had surely come on the site to see if there is an answer; it’s human.
    Still some time, and he will be among us, and maybe one of the most loyal contributors of this site.

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi Baruq, interesting comment because I think he is longing for Robert to prove him wrong, and yes I think you are also correct with your last sentence as well.

      I am sure I speak on behalf of many and confidently say that anyone who seeks the TTAT would be most welcome here.

  • Burt Reynolds

    Roberts tweet on the British empire is only a small taster of the extent to which the British governments and financiers went to subdue these colonies. They were no doubt equal to Stalin and hitler and in Germany at least, most of the population were unaware of the fate of the Jews, as were the British population during Victorian times right up to when Britain got out of India, ignorant of the plight of our colonies. Rape and pillage are too weak to describe the misery inflicted by Britain, even against its own people. It’s not surprising how the royal family were involved either. During the 1950 s when black immigration into England really got started, was it that the discrimination came to light in a large way. In truth though, no country can hold its head up. We are all the same. America lynched and burnt Africans and slaughtered the native Indians. Belgium demolished the Congo, Britain brutalised its way over the entire earth, and quelled resistance to its people by tying them to the muzzle of a cannon and blowing them to bits. China, Russia, Middle East…..there is no end. There is no depth to which mankind will not sink…a fact that we are to have thrust in our faces very soon, and indeed has already begun. If we are to survive, all of us must quickly learn that the superficial love we have now, the intolerance, spite and judgement we levy on others has to be seen for what it is. Somehow, we have to learn the depth and meaning of Jehovah’s love, and that, right quick.

  • Yuri Fisher

    The most dangerous people are those who speak half truth. This so called JW who wrote letter to Robert knows half truth from JW organization. He is totally blinded by false teachings of WT. Now he thinks that by attacking Robert and his site he is saving Robert life. All JW who believe WT teachings about last days and 1914 year are under heavy influence of Man of Lawlessness. They are not JW but WT witnesses. They lost privilege to be called JW. To reason with many of them is useless. They are totally blind. Spiritually. Jesus also was surrounded by spiritually blind people. And he knew exactly what was going to happen to them. Also Paul at first was sure that by attacking Christians he will save them. But we all know who was right. Also today blind and stupid (spiritually) so called JW will attack us. Jehovah has nothing to do with GB false teachers. They call themselves faithful and discreet slave but they are blind teachers that lead themselves to spiritual and literal death and so all their blind followers. Robert doing a great job in revealing the truth.

    • Burt Reynolds

      I really would not worry too much what others are doing. We all have to look to ourselves and our relationship with Jehovah and to preach truth to others where we can. If we let that which others do distract us, then we lose sight of what we should be doing. In the end analysis, we have to do what is right in order to survive, and whoever is a faithful or unfaithful slave is not really our concern. They too will reveal themselves.

  • Yuri Fisher

    Question to Robert
    Who is now Faithful and Discreet Slave now? If GB is under heavy influence of Satan’s Man of Lawless and cannot be by definition Faithful and Discreet Slave so who is now is?

    • The Raven

      Hi, Yuri. I found this to be a good explanation of the matter:

      The Faithful Slave and the Last Days
      https://e-watchman.com/faithful-slave-last-days/

      • Yuri Fisher

        Hello Raven
        Thank you very much for the link to this explanation. But I still don’t understand from this Who is now slave. Robert also must be part of this slave because he gives spiritual food now. Is GB also this slave? Sorry. I do not accept that GB is the slave today because they are drunk by false teachings. They give some good spiritual food but along with it they give spiritual poison. I think we will know for sure only after the collapse of WT organizations. Hope it will be soon. I am so tired of daily propaganda. I grew up in propaganda state and now also Satan uses propaganda of Man of Lawlessness. WT reminds me USSR of 80. Lots of propaganda of the communism. They also said we are the best country in the world. And we all saw what became of this country. Poor people who believed this communist propaganda. Also here in WT we see the same. Lots of lies and self exaltation. How terrible. Be well. Jehovah be with you.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Hello Yuri, the scriptures tell us that each one of us will be judged as an individual. Thus perhaps, not everyone in the governing body has evil intent. We don’t know what struggle goes on there, but we do know that Satan prevails with many because the lie shines forth. The faithful and unfaithful slaves co-exist. The faithful slave will be identified by his or her deeds. Likewise the other.

        • The Raven

          Actually the articles spell out the point that there is no one called an evil slave or a faithful and discreet slave…yet. They all operate in their capacity as a slave to further Christ’s command to preach the truth. That includes everyone who preaches the truth and they are not the ones who determine what truth is. Contrary to what they would have you believe. We can of course see who is doing what at this time and figure out who’s right and who’s wrong and Robert and others have made a strong case for exposing lies among them. But no titles, rewards or beatings until the master returns.

    • The Raven

      And this one too. It goes into some detail as well.

      Who Really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?
      https://e-watchman.com/who-really-is-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave/

  • The Raven

    This is one of the things I kept in mind when folks insisted I accept without question. From the link in the article above, which is also a very good read.

    https://e-watchman.com/e-watchman-versus-the-watchtower/

    “A diligent examination of the Watchtower Society’s seemingly inspired interpretation is not an act of disloyalty to God. It is actually the exhortation of the aged apostle John, who long ago wrote: “Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.”

  • The Raven

    From Robert’s tweet:
    Make No Mistake, We Are Already at War in Syria
    “Much of this acting against actual U.S. interests has come about due to the “worthless ally” syndrome which has been prevalent in Washington for several decades.”

    I don’t think this is the worthless ally syndrome at all. I think it’s promoted at the highest levels by the true controllers of the US; the London square mile, Wall Street and the MIC.
    https://e-watchman.com/there-was-a-great-military-service/

    • Southern ShaSha

      Raven, thank you for the link!

      • The Raven

        That’s a really good one isn’t it? I gave that to Huldah also in another comment section. You’re very welcome.

  • black curtain

    Thank you for the article Robert, the writer who made those accusations is thoroughly deluded and your defence of your work is well justified. As with all good articles one thing generates another
    in this case a slight divergence of viewpoint, but one that the sequence of future events will resolve in one way or the other.

    One thing for certain is that the culture of the WT has changed over time but theproblems that it carried never went away.

    You mention in your opening paragraph the following; “This is not true. The real apostates are very much apart of God’s organization. They praise the organization and exalt the Governing Body as the already
    approved faithful slave, exploiting you with counterfeit words that sound like truth, but are not.”

    The problem here is, ” who really is the faithful and discreet slave?” My only answer can be, whomever can serve truthful spiritual food. It does not need to be someone who lives in WT HQ and runs a multi billion dollar Corp. Indeed you mention that you take the emblems. You have just as much claim to be a part of that slave as any one else. All who make the claim will be tested quite thoroughly in due course, A daunting prospect.

    That is how the WT in an (*** w89 4/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***) article talks about
    Protestantism as an organisation.

    The problem I have here is that there is no evidence that Jehovah or Jesus have an “organisation” on earth at this time.

    There is evidence that they use organisations to achieve outcomes, and you cite those in your article, as in fact Jehovah used the Babylonians, as in fact Jehovah used Christendom to help preserve his word, as he doubtless supported William Tyndale in his efforts to translate the bible into the living English tongue of the plough-boy of his time. The WT has commented that men like Tyndale were probably anointed as they died as martyrs for the love of God’s Bible, and what it contained.

    But just because Russell formed a group claiming to have separated himself from the rest of Christendom does not appear to fit histories examples, and further does not mean it belonged to Jesus or his father.

    Henry the VIII split from the Catholic Church as did the Waldenses, the Hueguenots (my ancestry) and many others, does not mean that they are not part of Christendom.

    That being the case with Russell who sprang from a Presbyterian background with a large dose of freemasonry somewhere in the mix. If anyone has access to Google Maps it is quite easy to see Russell’s grave and his pyramid tombstone, paid for by the WT, on a grassy rise overlooking the HQ of Freemasonry in the USA in Pennsylvania. Russell’s calculation of 1914 according to my research, was
    achieved by going to Egypt and counting steps on the Great Pyramid of Cheops in Egypt, because Russell believed the pyramid had a secret code left by the Hebrew slave builders.

    Hence Russell’s interest in numerology. It explains why the current leadership of WT Corp shun Russell’s books. All of this indicates that WT actually started from a bad base, hence it was never going to
    belong to Jehovah. That bad base from numerology still clings tenaciously to the WT Corporation to this day in the form of the 1914 doctrine which you rightly point out is false. It is worth noting what religious body has not started from a bad base?

    A bit like sin hitting the first humans, everyone thereafter fell further downwards. But the WT in itself made grand claims from the beginning. I am sure Jehovah carefully watched all over this and said to his son,
    “let’s see how they go with this.” When Rutherford began to amplify the PR work with the world at large, he introduced bait and switch slogans, such as “Millions now living will never die.” What an attraction for post WW I people trying to recover from the trauma and in the midst of the Great Depression, to be offered such a hope. How remarkably similar to (Genesis 3:4) 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die.

    Like Indiana Jones I have more, Roberts article opened lots of good food for thinking.

    • The Raven

      Hello Black Curtain. A lot of what you say here is true. From Robert’s work on the matter:

      https://e-watchman.com/jehovahs-witnesses-people-name/
      Excerpt:
      “Are Jehovah’s Witnesses fulfilling the prophecy of Amos today by serving as a people for Gods name? The answer is no—at least not yet. According to Amos, the people who are called by God’s name are those who become such after the ‘jiggling’ takes place. The jiggling is when Jehovah rocks all the nations during the oncoming tribulation.
      Let the reader please take note of the fact that the prophecy indicates that those who fear the name of Jehovah and who are “thinking upon his name” become the “special property” of Jehovah at that time. Again, when does that occur? The very next verse in Malachi indicates that Jehovah produces a special property composed of those who fear his name during the tribulation.
      So, while the religion known as Jehovah’s Witnesses is not fulfilling the prophecies by being “a people for his name” at this particular time, undoubtedly the core of Jehovah’s Witnesses are in line to become the people for his name in the very near future. Jehovah’s Witnesses have, though, unquestionably served a vital function by laying the groundwork for the judgments soon to follow.”

      • black curtain

        Just some further thoughts on this article of apostasy in para 9 (counting from the bottom para up)

        “Because Jerusalem has (sic) also the birthplace of Christianity, the original 120
        being anointed in an upper room in the holy city, and the apostles were unofficially headquartered in Jerusalem as well, the city of Jerusalem symbolizes Christ’s congregation in prophecy.”

        I would not have said it was HQ’d in Jerusalem. Situated, perhaps, for a time might have been better, it seems to imply that the city has special significance for present day christians.

        The moment some emphasis is given to Jerusalem it triggers off folks like TTT (aka Francis the concerned).

        Jerusalem has a place to be sure, I wouldn’t suppose that Robert had any
        particular thing in mind on that one, other than what he has written.

        What was also of interest
        after a lot of previous consideration, is the reference to “Christ’s Congregation” it is clear that Christ does not have an earthly congregation, depending on the how the reader/listener interprets that word.

        The only congregation that Christ has, at least for the present, (but I can’t say for the future) is his heavenly one. It is obvious that he has some of his heavenly congregation is still here but the Cong’ is not situated here.

        Most people I talk with in reference to this matter, and who express no heavenly calling say that they are members of Christ’s congregation here on Earth, which in my view, is not the right understanding. There are good reasons for this and some of those reasons
        relates to Isa 43:10.

        The other matter that was of interest was this comment;

        Jesus sternly warned his followers that they would need to take decisive action to
        abandon “Jerusalem” when the disgusting thing began to stand where it ought not. Presently, Jehovah’s Witnesses are laboring under the delusion that “Jerusalem” symbolizes Babylon the Great. But if that were true, why would it be necessary for true Christians to flee from it if they have already gotten out of Babylon the Great? Obviously, there is a major adjustment in order and it is doubtful that the Governing Body will ever make it.

        So I had a quick check on the WT disc to see if I could find the phrase “Jerusalem” symbolizes Babylon the Great” I didn’t, perhaps others will, but what I did find was this;

        *** w82 10/1 p. 27 par.
        9 Be as Men Who Are Facing Har–Magedon Unafraid *** For this reason ancient Jerusalem pictures modern-day Christendom.

        False to its claim to being the realm of true Christianity, Christendom has fallen victim to
        Babylonish religion and has actually become a prominent part of modern Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion.
        When Babylon the Great is destroyed by the disgusted political elements of this world, as foretold in Revelation, chapters 17 and 18, Christendom will go down into destruction with it.

        On the first reading that Jerusalem = Babylon, I couldn’t make out what was being said. I realised that the paragraph was combining two unrelated verses, namely Math
        24:16 (flee Jerusalem )and Rev 18:4 Get out of her (Babylon). I think that paragraph should be reworded for clarity.

        • The WT does not explicitly claim that Jerusalem represents all of Babylon the Great, but they claim that the great tribulation will begin when the modern disgusting thing destroys “Jerusalem,” so it is certainly implied. Below are a few quotes from various WT’s

          *** w05 9/15 p. 19 par. 13 Walk by Faith, Not by Sight! ***

          Likewise today, Bible prophecy indicates that militarized powers within the United Nations will see religion as a disturbing element and will act to destroy modern-day Jerusalem—Christendom—as well as the rest of Babylon the Great. (Revelation 17:12-17) Yes, the entire world empire of false religion stands on the brink of destruction.

          *** w96 3/1 p. 16 par. 10 “May Your Hands Not Drop Down” ***

          That great day will begin with the execution of God’s judgments against Christendom, antitypical Jerusalem, and the remainder of Babylon the Great. On ‘catching sight’ of this, on recognizing what that international organization is and how it is being idolized, lovers of righteousness need to flee to safety. Flee out of what? Out of that which is the modern-day antitype of unfaithful Jerusalem, namely, Christendom, and out of all of Babylon the Great, the worldwide system of false religion.

          • The Raven

            Hello Robert. Once again black curtain’s comments are awaiting moderation and I cannot reply to him. For a period of time last night I was able to reply. But not now. I wonder if anyone else is seeing this?

            • There is nothing in moderation queue.

            • The Raven

              I don’t know what to make of this, then. Not only are his original comments showing up as awaiting moderation but even his reply to my comment is. No reply button on any of them.

            • I see what you mean. There were no comments pending moderation in my moderation box. But there were on the thread here as I just realized. I approved them, but now they are gone altogether. Maybe they’ll show up somewhere. Weird

            • The Raven

              Thanks, Robert.

            • The Raven

              Robert can you see a reply button on his comments on the site itself, not just your console as admin? I’m trying to figure out why this is happening.

            • The Raven

              Nevermind, Robert. I think I may have been blocked and didn’t know it. Don’t worry with it. I am still in the dark about how that works. Thanks for your time.

    • Burt Reynolds

      This begs the question then, if all people are corrupt beyond redemption, then whom will Jehovah choose to represent as his people? Out of all religions (people, congregants), If not the watchtower, then whom? If not the Jews back in the days of Abraham, then whom? Who shall represent Jehovah? It is not the sin, but the faith of that person within the sin that appears to be the mark.

      Then in prophesy, who fulfils the questions? Personally, I cannot think of any other group that systematically meets every aspect of end times prophesy, yet there must be one for the prophesy to be fulfilled. As Jehovah said, even the very stones will cry out if there were no one to preach. I cannot see how that can be figurative, unless Jehovah knew at the time, that there would be a people for his name. So there must be some, a group, call it what you will, who will meet that role.

      I feel that it is perhaps pointless to look at where these people come from now, or how they became grouped together. Rather, are they not identified by what they do, their prophetic accomplishments and indeed how prophesy refers to them? It is not possible, unless one denies then bible, to have one without the other.

      • black curtain

        Burt you must have missed Ravens reply, it was rather good (see below) and I hope it answers the question for you that you ask It. I will try to add a further response soon
        cheers bc
        Hello Black Curtain. A lot of what you say here is true. From Robert’s work on the matter:

        https://e-watchman.com/jeho
        Excerpt:
        “Are
        Jehovah’s Witnesses fulfilling the prophecy of Amos today by serving as
        a people for Gods name? The answer is no—at least not yet. According to
        Amos, the people who are called by God’s name are those who become such
        after the ‘jiggling’ takes place. The jiggling is when Jehovah
        rocks all the nations during the oncoming tribulation.
        Let the
        reader please take note of the fact that the prophecy indicates that
        those who fear the name of Jehovah and who are “thinking upon his name”
        become the “special property” of Jehovah at that time. Again, when does
        that occur? The very next verse in Malachi indicates that Jehovah
        produces a special property composed of those who fear his name during
        the tribulation.
        So, while the religion known as Jehovah’s Witnesses
        is not fulfilling the prophecies by being “a people for his name” at
        this particular time, undoubtedly the core of Jehovah’s Witnesses are in
        line to become the people for his name in the very near future.
        Jehovah’s Witnesses have, though, unquestionably served a vital function
        by laying the groundwork for the judgments soon to follow.”

  • black curtain

    Roberts article regarding his alleged apostasy makes me realise being regarded as an apostate from the WT is a little badge of honour anyway, since Robert is no apostate in relation to the scriptures and Jehovah and Christ.

    That got me to thinking about the two allegorical sisters, Oholah and her sister Oholibah, mentioned in Ezek. I have trimmed a *** w89 4/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers*** article down a bit concerning these two women. See further down

    It is easy to see that the WT is also represented by the younger woman Oholibah along with Protestant religions.

    The WT with its relationship with the UN, which from my understanding continues in some non-English speaking nations, the WT’s foray into the heady world of hedge funds and probably tax havens, which is quite a deal for a non-profit(???) religious entity.

    The WT is now the proud owner, and profit taker through the Hetty Reilly Trust, of tobacco giant Phillip Morris shares, and also the company (Raytheon??)that made the two cruise missile that President Trump ordered to be fired into Syrian military bases over alleged chemical weapon use, along with many other companies totally incompatible with a christian based Corporation.

    *** w89 4/1 p. 30
    Questions From Readers ***

    ▪ Why did The Watchtower of September 15, 1988, indicate that Protestantism has defiled herself even more than Roman Catholicism?

    This was said because it fits the prophecy and the facts. In the book of Ezekiel chapter 23, the figurative Oholah and Oholibah were described as immoral sisters. The ten-tribe kingdom of Israel was represented by Oholah, whereas Oholibah denoted the two-tribe kingdom of Judah. In discussing these symbolic women, The Watchtower of September 15, 1988, said on page 21: “For pursuing a more sinful course than her sister [Oholah, or Israel], Oholibah (Judah) suffered national calamity at Babylonian hands in 607 B.C.E.

    Her children fell by the sword or were led away captive, and she was disgraced among the nations.
    Like Oholah and Oholibah, Christendom commits spiritual adultery, a sin in the sight of the God she
    claims to worship….

    Yet, why can it be said that “Protestantism . . . has defiled herself with the commercial and political powers of the world even more than her elder sister… But the many Protestant churches combined outstrip the one Catholic Church in power and influence. For instance, Protestantism exerts great influence in
    certain prominent industrial countries, with some Protestant clergymen seeking high political office. So this is one way in which Protestantism, with its many denominations, has defiled herself even more than Catholicism.
    In yet another way, however, Protestantism has “exercised her sensual desire more ruinously” and is more reprehensible than Catholicism. How so?

    Well, the Reformation gave Protestantism at least the hope and prospect of greater spiritual enlightenment. In fact, some reformers made sincere and notable moves in this regard. But when everything was said and done, such unscriptural doctrines as the Trinity, immortality of the human soul, and hellfire continued unchanged among the Protestants. Like the Catholics, they have also been guilty of engaging in creature worship and of putting the traditions of men in place of Biblical truth.—Matthew 15:1-9; 23:9, 10.

    Of interest in this regard is what was stated in Vindication, Book One, back in the year 1931. On page 309, this Watch Tower publication (now out of stock) said concerning Ezekiel 23:11-13: “Protestant ‘organized religion’ saw how Roman Catholicism had defiled herself with the commercial and political powers of this world, and said much against the Catholics for that reason; but then Protestantism went and straightway did likewise, and even worse. . . . Both have taken the same course; but Protestantism
    had had more enlightenment than Romanism, and therefore is the more reprehensible.”

  • Searcher

    I wonder if the author counted the time to write you their letter towards their monthly report? That in itself speaks volumes for “their” ministry. No one needs to wonder why the society is against higher education, it empowers people to spout sanctimonious clap trap without a single thought to any critical analysis. Those words didn’t contain a single original thought, it was simple watchtower verbatim.

  • Vasilios Agio

    I’m shocked and I will tell u why . Today I opened my bible to a random page as I do at times and I read it and today I opened it to Jeremiah on page 1041 of the mwt and my eyes went instantly to ch5:20 and I kept reading and when I got to verse 31 suddenly this inspired me to think of brother Robert and so I got in line and I started reading this wonderful explanation and I noticed you quoted the scripture that I read in jeramiah and I just couldn’t believe my eyes how things work out sometimes . I know it a coincidence but there are a lot of scriptures in the bible and it just turned out this way today .there is another point I wish to mention regarding verse 31 of jeramiah ch 5 whereby it says that the prophets prphecy lies and the priests dominate by there own authority AND MY OWN PEOPLE LOVE IT THAT WAY . To me , this scripture opened my eyes regarding talks I have with my blood sister who does hundreds of hrs and is looked up to in the congregation but wen I witness to her she just comes back to me with watchtower base thoughts and has no idea what satans is doing in these critical times I.e 1914 and basically everything you write in this blog . She only views me as an apostate who reads apostate literature and has closed her mind to any scriptural reasoning outside of watchtower doctrine . To me this is idolatry , believing in the teachings of man rather than the true word of god . How can anyone read jeramiah or isiaih or 2 thes2 and not pick up on what is going on , it frustrates me . Jehovah’s people that it that way . This to me is as straight forward as Jehovah can get , he telling them that they are believing the lies , the deception and yet. They love it . This scripture has changed my life today seriously .

    • Burt Reynolds

      It is true that some brothers and sisters in the watchtower love the lie. But do they know what the lie is, and mistake it for truth? To love the lie, you have to know what the lie is. It may be more accurate to suggest that those who do not know the lie, love the illusion of truth and safety that the lie gives. More to be pitied than blamed for their loyalty to it. It is to these that Jehovah seems to be primarily extending the hand of choice come the visible presence of Jesus. Those who know the lie, and perpetuate it, have already, or are in the process of confirming that choice, yet still may be saved if they repent. Is it not so that Jehovah wants no one to die? This is the trickery of the lie, as the bible suggests: it is that not only that they ‘love it’ but that the lie itself is loveable and masquerades as truth…which indeed is loveable.

      It may be though, that this ‘love’ applies solely to the act and transient benefits of lying, yet there may be room to suggest that it may also apply in other ways. After all, the wronged partner in an adulterous situation still loves their partner until they discover their adultery, with the same deep love they had in the beginning. Is it not so that the watchtower is ‘adulterous’ with the truth and many are yet to find out they are wronged? My sister neatly summed up the issue by telling me firmly that there was no need for me to post articles to her as she was ‘happy with her religion’. Well, if Satan did not make the lie a happy place to lie (rest securely in)…pun intended…., then he would loose some customers. Though some admittedly are held by fear and confusion. That is why the issue will be made clear eventually. I was once one of those people and I am sure more will appear…a great crowd of them. ‘Forgive them father, for they know not what they do’, could also perhaps be written without breaking context, as, ‘ forgive them father, for they know not what they love.’ As it was then, so it is now…some do, some do not. If we assume that they all know the lie, it will frustrate us, but worse than that, we cut ourselves off from helping them.

      • Jamie Mac

        Hi Burt, being in a comfort zone is very comforting (pun intended ) and makes one happy. To get out of that comfort zone is very very difficult and involves a lot of soul searching. When the WT crumbles there will be a lot of confusion and distress and I know all of us here would want to reach out to them. Will they respond, well that’s another question.

        • Burt Reynolds

          I’m sure many will respond. It will all suddenly click together for those that love righteousness and they will not mourn the watchtower. ‘The former things will not be brought to mind…’

      • Vasilios Agio

        Good point brother but what comes to mind is this , does it matter if they know or not ? If I was to go to a different country and drive on the wrong side of the road would I not be breaking the law ? Would I not be to blame for not doing the research that would avoid the error . When I get pulled over by the police officer for driving on the wrong side of the road what am I to say , sorry I didn’t know officer , who’s fault is that ? When the witnesses read the watchtowers and all the literature , do they just accept what they read or do they question it . ots not like 1914 is written in the scriptures as truth , if that were the case then we would all believe it but I’m sure people are wise enuf to have read the scriptures that Jesus spoke to the apostles regarding his return , no one knows niethef the son or the Holy Spirit know not only the father . This scripture alone makes everyone guilty of believing the lie .

        • Richard Long

          Of course you are absolutely right in this and your original comment, Vasilios! By now, hopefully, you are realizing these moments following the very real trauma of awakening from the delusion are the moments when we are to be focused on securing our own life preserver before helping those we might with theirs, lest both perish. You may well literally drive yourself mad trying to save those you love before achieving some measure of equilibrium yourself, because they do not want or even know they need your help. Be the beacon, not the search light. Personal, more deep and more profound than ever, relationship with Jehovah and His Son are the name of the game for this moment. That’s where I am too.

          Go with Jehovah’s love.

          • Vasilios Agio

            Thank you my good brother . Peace to you .

        • Burt Reynolds

          Hello Vasilios, a good example. My mother used to drive often on the wrong side of the road in Europe…..as well as in England. I Can only go by my own experience and what I have observed in general. The point is, that if you think you are on the wrong side of the road, you do something about it. If you don’t know you are on the wrong side of the road, you drive along oblivious of the danger, do not think anything is wrong and so feel no need to correct your position on matters……until you see the approaching lorry. Then you either come to your senses, and get on the correct side of the road, or die. We should all know how to drive, but if you are anything like me, you have been driving so long, you no longer look at the road book with questions. You know it already. So it is with the witnesses. But they will see the lorry soon.

          • Vasilios Agio

            Yes that was a good example . Let’s not forget that we must look at the signs , if we ignore the signs that are put in place then we are guilty of charge . I’m the case of 1914 , I think the scriptures give us many signs , we either believe scripture or man . We all have the same choices do we not , some wish to ignore the signs and this brings me to my earlier point that Jehovah states in jeramiah that his people love it that way , people mislead them but they ignorance they end up in the wrong side . I personally think it’s a. Conscience decision . No one knows but the father , that’s a huge road sign . And as u say the lorry is approaching fast .

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yes I agree. But we were talking about those that blindly carry on in their ways because the deception hides the signs. They look at the signs and feel they have read them. The lorry is the sign, to use the analogy, of Christ’s coming, plain, in your face, unavoidable. It is only then that some will realise they are on the wrong side. For others, they will believe it is the lorry on the wrong side of the road and stubbornly carry on expecting the lorry to move and that they, not the lorry are on the right road. Others, as you say, will see the road signs beforehand and realise they are in a different language.

            • Vasilios Agio

              Yes good point , this made me remember a time wen my brother and I was only young and we drove to the city from the country for the first time . We got to the outskirts of the city very early in the morning around 2 am and it was dark of course . So eventually we got onto the first freeway via a tunnel but there wasn’t much traffic at that time and the only other car we noticed was on the other side of the freeway travelling the same direction as us heading towards the City .We were laughing about it and we were making fun of it and we even tried to alert him by flashing our lights and sounding the horn but he was too far away from us to take notice . Eventually after about ten minutes we noticed on coming trafic in the far distance and we panicked because we feared for this persons safety but as the lights got brighter we started to panic because we realised it was us that were on the wrong side of the freeway and so we pulled over and avoided a collision . So yes , sometimes we think we r on the right track but suddenly as u say the lorry lights sudddnly blinding us with only seconds to a collision . Thx brother

            • Burt Reynolds

              Wow!

  • Vasilios Agio

    Very powerful replies by you brother Robert . Satan has twisted things so much that this has become very complicated . Your answers were spot on and it proves your bible knowledge . May u be commended for standing up for the truth . The person who wrote this letter to you is just another one of those mentioned in jeramiah 5:31 who loves it that way , the lie !

  • Richard Long

    Robert, Jehovah bless you for your treatment of this mailer. I cannot imagine a more Christ-like response.

  • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

    Can someone send me the link that was on here a couple of days ago about homosexuality apparently the post has been taken down

  • Vasilios Agio

    Just a quick question , is jeramiah 5:20 thru 31 , is this lirkterally about the Israelites back then when they didn’t listen and turn away from there errors and how can we put this scripture into today’s watchtower . I have a witness who I spoke with today who seems to think it has no bearing on today’s org and I really couldn’t prove him otherwise . What way can we say this scripture applies to the org today thx brother Robert or anyone who can help thx

  • Dr. Moreau

    define “they reject the visible part of his organization”.

    the point of apostasy is that that one knows the truth but are in opposition to it anyway. if a person doesnt know or believe the truth then that person cant be apostate but just a non-believer. if saying ‘rejects the organization’ means that they dont believe that they are Jehovah’s people then that doesnt make anyone apostate, it simply means they reject that as the truth. apostates know the truth but reject it because it is the truth. big difference. so if saying that apostates reject Jehovah’s visible witnesses because they simply believe its true, defeats the purpose of what a apostate is. the questioner needs to go back to the Hall and ask the elders to learn what apostate is.

    Apostate – someone who reject the truth because it is the truth

  • Dr. Moreau

    define “they reject the visible part of his organization”.

    the
    point of apostasy is that that a apostate knows the truth but is in
    opposition to it anyway. if a person doesnt know or believe the truth
    then that person cant be apostate but just a non-believer or just in
    disagreement do to understanding. if saying ‘rejects the organization’
    means that they dont believe that they are Jehovah’s people then that
    doesnt make anyone apostate, it simply means they reject that as the
    truth. apostates know the truth but reject it because it IS the truth.
    big difference. so if saying that apostates reject Jehovah’s visible
    witnesses because they simply believe its not true, defeats the purpose
    of what apostates are. the questioner needs to go back to the Hall and
    ask the elders to learn what apostatasy is.

    Apostate – someone who rejects the truth because it is the truth, not because someone disagrees that it is the truth.

    Satan is a good example of an apostate because he is a liar. he knows the truth but lies against it.
    Judas is another example and so is the man-of-lawlessness

    (posted 2 days ago.)

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