“Those who say they are apostles”

//“Those who say they are apostles”

The February, 2017, Study Edition of the Watchtower carries an article entitled: “Who Is Leading God’s People Today?”

The publishers seem intent to equate themselves with the apostles, cleverly doing so by repeatedly referring to the apostles as “the governing body.” (Note small case “g” and “b”) Below is a compilation of 10 references to the first century “governing body” appearing in just four paragraphs, 4-7.

“In time, other anointed elders joined the apostles in administering the affairs of the congregations. As a governing body, they gave direction to all the congregations.”

“Christians in the first century recognized that the governing body was directed by Jehovah God through their Leader, Jesus.”

“How could they be sure of this? First, holy spirit empowered the governing body.”

“Holy spirit was poured out on all anointed Christians, but it specifically enabled the apostles and other elders in Jerusalem to fulfill their role as overseers. For example, in 49 C.E., holy spirit guided the governing body to make a decision regarding the issue of circumcision.”

“The letter conveying that decision also reveals that the governing body manifested the fruitage of God’s spirit, including love and faith.”

“Second, angels assisted the governing body.”

“Moreover, angels actively promoted and accelerated the preaching work that the governing body was overseeing.”

“Third, God’s Word guided the governing body.”

“Although that governing body had authority in the early congregation, they acknowledged that their Leader was Jesus.”

“But I want you to know that the head of every man (including every member of the governing body) is the Christ…”

It is not necessarily inappropriate to describe the apostles and older men of the first century as a governing body. They did direct and govern the congregations. There is no dispute there. But why rename them? Why not simply refer to them as the apostles and older men, as the early Christians did and as Jehovah’s Witnesses have always done? The reason for the subtle change is disturbing. The Governing Body are not really interested in rebranding the apostles as “the governing body.” The intent is to elevate themselves to the office of apostles, at least in the minds of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

But here is the problem: The apostles were unique to Christianity. They are the foundation stones, along with Christ the cornerstone, of the congregation of the Firstborn, as described in the 21st chapter of Revelation: “The wall of the city also had foundation stones, and on them were the 12 names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.”

The first century apostles are not succeeded by others. Those originals are still the apostles of Christ’s congregation, and the writings of Matthew, John, Peter and Paul are the sole basis for teaching and guiding Jesus’ disciples. Those who wish to pass themselves off as apostles have an agenda. Paul, the so-called 13th apostle, or the apostle to the nations, dealt with those whom he sarcastically dubbed “the superfine apostles.” Evidently they were men of stature among the Corinthians —probably Greek orators, which is why they denigrated Paul as having a weak personal presence and being a dreadful public speaker. That is why Paul responded, writing: “For I consider that I have not proved inferior to your superfine apostles in a single thing. But even if I am unskilled in speech, I certainly am not in knowledge; indeed we made it clear to you in every way and in everything.”

The superfine apostles criticized Paul in order to elevate themselves to the rank of apostles, which they evidently accomplished given the fact that Paul referred to them as “your superfine apostles.”

Fully aware of the spiritual danger posed by the superfine apostles, the genuine apostle went on to reveal their motivation, saying of them: “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.”

Under inspiration Paul revealed that Satan had successfully infiltrated the Corinthian congregation by means of men who had cleverly disguised themselves as Christian ministers. That is why Paul expressed his fear that the congregation —being oblivious to the deceit that Satan was working on them —was like Eve, who in her  naiveté personally conversed with the Devil, who had effectively disguised himself as a lowly serpent.

We should not suppose that the presence of false apostles in the Corinthian congregation was some sort of peculiar anomaly. Christ himself spoke of false apostles who were/are menacing the symbolic Ephesian congregation in the run-up to the Lord’s day. At Revelation 2:2 Jesus said: “I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot tolerate bad men, and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars.”

Most relevant, is the fact that one of the original 12 apostles was also an agent of Satan, whom the Devil used to betray the Son of God for 30 pieces of silver. Jesus referred to Judas as a slanderer, which in Hebrew literally means “devil.” (Most noteworthy, just as the Corinthians had no idea who the superfine apostles really were, the 11 faithful apostles were clueless as to who Jesus’ betrayer was even though Christ handed him the identifying morsel in their presence.)

Christ also referred to Judas as “the son of destruction.” That designation is significant since Paul also used that exact same expression in connection with the man of lawlessness. Furthermore, like the superfine apostles, Paul revealed that the man of lawlessness is an operation of Satan intended to mislead Christ’s followers with a fake parousia of Christ immediately prior to the manifestation of the Lord Jesus.

Interestingly, Paul forewarned the brothers not to believe even “an inspired statement” or “a letter appearing to be from us.” Paul’s use of the pronoun “us” is in reference to the apostles. So, Paul’s inspired writings indicate that Satan will effectively infiltrate Christ’s congregation by a clique of superfine-like apostles, who by their pretended inspired statements, spoken messages and writings intimating apostolic authority, herald the presence of Christ and the day of Jehovah is here.

But Paul’s warning is most vital today: “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?”

According to the writings of the genuine apostle to the nations, the authentic presence of Christ will not begin unless the apostasy comes first. The relationship between the proclamation of the false paroisuia and the actual, is that the man of lawlessness works his deceit immediately before the coming of Christ. Worded another way, the powerful presence of Christ is consequent to the apostasy fomented by the man of lawlessness.

The phenomenon we are witnessing presently —the Governing Body exalting itself to an apostleship —is to be expected and is preliminary to the emergence from the highest level of the Watchtower organization of those who will prove themselves to be in total opposition to Christ in the days ahead.

 

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2017-09-29T17:59:50+00:00 November 20th, 2016|WT Review|103 Comments
  • Joseph Stephan

    So in the end who are you going to follow? Jesus Christ or Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

    • ewatchman

      Is that a rhetorical question? lol

      • Joseph Stephan

        Absolutely

    • Burt Reynolds

      We had the Three Bears in our congregation. They were neither too hot, or two cold and they were never just right though they thought they were. But we were better off than our other congregation that had the Grand Old Duke of York. They were contantly being led up the hill then down again, in 1914, 1919, 1935, 1975 for generation after generation.

    • Joseph Stephan
      • Burt Reynolds

        Blimey Joseph, you melted my iPad battery posting that picture! Next time put a warning up!

      • Joyce Haze

        Joseph, you do brighten my day!!!!

        • Joseph Stephan

          ❤?

      • 1914for100Alex

        Am I the only one that now realizes why “new light” seems to just bounce off their heads … 😉

        Apologies to my balding friends for that one, but I had to 🙂

  • Burt Reynolds

    I had never thought of Paul as being unskilled in speach. If as he says he was, then the inspired words with which he writes are indeed evidence of the true author of his words and which is comforting to have evidenced for us again. It’s some sort of madness for the governing body to portray themselves this way. It’s a conundrum for me to think how they can assume such praise, in direct contrast to what they would have us believe of them. It truely is wonderous how the brothers and sisters cannot see this for themselves. The power of the delusion seems almost as though it were a possession.

    • ewatchman

      Obviously, being a powerful writer does not necessarily translate into being a skilled speaker.

    • Vilhelm Bock

      *speech

      • Burt Reynolds

        Thak u four sporting mi deliberut missteak William. Eye shal korect et emmediutlee an wryt speech insted.

        • Vilhelm Bock

          Its not that you are unskilled in your typing, rather just unskilled in perfection. But im the pot calling the kettle black. 😉

          • Burt Reynolds

            I’m only teasing. I’m unskilled in both its true.

        • DA

          lol

    • DA

      “And the violent ones among your people will be carried along to try making a vision come true; but they will stumble.”
      biblehub.com/daniel/11-14.htm

  • Burt Reynolds

    Looking at that picture above of the governing body, I can’t help but wonder what magazine they have in their bibles that they are secretly reading, or maybe they are playing on their I phone.

    • Joseph Stephan

      Their searching Robert’s site for new light!

      • Burt Reynolds

        Perhaps those bibles contain an iPad so they can verify their ‘insight’ with Robert before they try it on the others. Then they can say it’s a ‘blessing from Jehovah.’ It must be hard for them to swallow it all when they go on Roberts site and the first thing they are confronted with is the bearded Watchman picture. Bet that rubs salt in the wound!

    • Simpletruth

      LOL that is funny

  • Bobby 6343

    Why is it that only few of us can see this clearly? I read all the articles and listen to all of the podcast and read and pray so often. I still can not but wonder, why so few of us can see through it, and the majority can not or will not?

    The few of us I’m talking about are those on this site!

    I have shown many of the articles to my closets “friends” and they give me a look as though I was going crazy or on the verge of “apostasy”. Showing them with the written word of God. Yet, they still can not accept the that “governing body” can go rogue!

    It is too bad, even this article written today will only benefit me. I so much want to share this knowledge with others, but it is too close for comfort. For now only my sister will listen to me, but she still has a very hard time accepting that the “governing body” can do wrong.

    Thank you Brother King for this article.

    • Kevin b

      The goal of the branch is to keep JWs under their control. JWs know what key words to listen out for when someone has a different view than the branch. They have been trained to follow their direction only, not to give ear to any teaching other than what comes from the governing body. You, and many here have had something happen in our lives for us to see through the lies being told to us by the branch. Until that happens on a large scale to others, you can talk until you’re blue in the face and they won’t listen to you. You will only put a target on your back.

      Isaiah 42: 18 Listen, you who are deaf; Look and see, you who are blind. 19 Who is blind except my servant, So deaf as the messenger I send? Who is so blind as the one rewarded, So blind as the servant of Jehovah? 20 You see many things, but you do not keep watch. You open your ears, but you do not listen.

      The blindness of the rank and file JWs is mind numbing. I feel your pain and so do many others. We are all facing the exact same thing. Waiting on Jehovah is all we can do. Learning about the real truth here will help us learn how to teach others when the time is right.

      • Bobby 6343

        Thank you, I needed this sort of encouragement!

        • Simpletruth

          Yes it is amazing that only few can see it. I thank Jehovah for my being open to this information when I found it. I had and still am inactive though. I do believe that is the only way I was able to be reached. If I were still going I probably would not have given any conflicting information the time of the day due to conforming to the mindset of the majority of witnesses.
          Honestly I think that most JW;s have organizational loyalty. They think they show loyalty to Jehovah but really they only have a “form of Godly devotion”
          I was raised a witness but even as a young girl I knew there was something a little different about my perspective compared to my parents and pretty much all the witnesses around me. I questioned things. It wasn’t that I had a problem with conforming (if that’s what Jehovah wanted) but I had a problem just accepting something that I didn’t see in the bible. But, I found that I always met with opposition whenever I asked “Why?”
          Quick example: I remember a time in my mid teens when I was speaking with my mother about something that I didn’t agree with. After going back and forth I felt I wasn’t getting anywhere so I said to her: “Okay well if that’s what you think I need to do then I guess I have no choice but to do it.” Her response verbatim was: “It’s not what I THINK you should do…it’s what JEHOVAH thinks you should do!” She said this as she pointed to a paragraph in the Watchtower NOT the bible.
          At that point I knew I couldn’t argue with her. In my mind Jehovah and His organization were two totally separate things. I knew that men could get certain things wrong and could put their own interpretation or spin on certain things but my mother did not. However, she was conditioning me to think the way she did and if I had stayed I probably would have adopted that same thinking.
          And I really feel like that sums it up…at some point MOST witnesses put the organization (ie: words of the governing body) on the same level as JEHOVAH Himself. So, in their minds when they hear something that goes against what comes down from the organization they do not listen to it because they feel like it is the equivalent of being disloyal to Jehovah.

          I definitely understand your feelings. It is pretty frustrating though, isn’t it???

          • Bobby 6343

            Thank you for sharing your story. And yes, it is “pretty frustrating”!

          • Burt Reynolds

            Crumbs! You’re describing my niece in your own story, my sister sounds just like your mother, a monotheist among witnesses, ‘content’ with her religion and totally unyielding in loyalty to the organisation. I wish I knew where my niece was so that I could contact her. Sigh…, it’s wonderful though that you have found hope and reason here. I have learnt more about Christ, Jehovah and his ways here in six months than I did in twenty five years as a witness. Staggering is it not!

            • Simpletruth

              Yes I’m sure there are many stories like mine and your niece. I’m sorry to hear that you aren’t able to contact her. Well…maybe someday when the time is right:-)
              I feel the same…I’ve learned so much over the last year than when I was a witness for 20+ years. I also have so much more of an appreciation for Jehovah and His ways and also Jesus and the sacrifice he made for us. Happy to be connected to others, like yourself, who are in the same place. Take care….

    • Joyce Haze

      My thoughts exactly. I do envy, which we are not suppose to envy one another, the brothers and sisters who are able to continue on with the organization. I only came to the atrocities being commited by the Watchtower a couple of years ago, although had so many doubts regarding other things that I did see. The shunning, the cliques and the abandonment of many struggling to serve JEHOVAH. Finally, have found such joy, ever learning the will and purpose in JEHOVAH, all to go back and have that same feeling of dread and frustration. And yet this is what we are encouraged to do. Always praying to JEHOVAH to help me to overcome my anxiety and do the right thing. My experience in coming to Jehovah and His Son in both knowledge and love is beyond anything I could have imagined in my first coming to know the Truth of God. The challenge is so great for me, and yet I question that this may be my test in working to do Jehovahs will!!! His purpose and desire for all certainly over rides our mere hang-ups, whatever they may be. The

      • Joyce Haze

        I’m supposing, it’s the belief that the man of lawlessness, the trickery, the warnings are directed not as a warning to Gods people but to christendom, that is where the misunderstanding begins and ends, although the scriptures show without a doubt, it is to His people he is speaking. I see that and I’m certainly not the brightest cookie!

      • Burt Reynolds

        Hello Joyce, far be it from me to say if one should attend the meetings or not, but I do know this that it is not the priority. The priority is the heart condition, that is where the test lies. The example we have of course is the governing body, who attend meetings, I suppose daily, but have not the truth in them so it seems. I do intend to help the brothers when the time comes and I have faith that the temple is within the heart. If anyone knows differently, then please let me know, but truely I cannot see in my heart why I should listen to issues on beards, on dress, on anything but the depth of the word, when I can come here and find refinement and truth. This iPad is more of a temple to me. I need all the truth I can get but I have faith in what Jehovah says that we will not be tested beyond what we can endure. And so it is up to all of us to do what is in their heart to do as an offering to Jehovah. Even then, I wonder if I am excusing myself, and should go now, but my priority is to save my family and to do so while the ears of the congregation are closed and use this time effectively to help my family. When the time comes and brothers and sisters need to make a choice or understand it, then I intend to go and help, because if by then my family still refuse to listen, then I must help those who may. Just my thoughts.

        • Joyce Haze

          Dear Burt, yes, at this moment in time, I feel much the same as you. After so many years of moving along like a turtle, in actually coming to a time of truly beginning to understand the actual will and purpose of JEHOVAH and His Son. I also have family who are reaching out, diving in to learn all they can. Much stumbling occurred for them in the past. You know what, the difference in our faith becomes so apparent when the only thing we take in is Truth, not all the hoopla with little, or no meaning to our efforts to serve only one God, being JEHOVAH, alone. To just go along or ignore the lies, seem so contradictory, so difficult to endure on a regular basis. And yet many are able to shut out the untruths and have a presence within the congregation, to be available, to lovingly help others to see the real truth in these matters. I’m just trying at present to first build my own relationship and to help my family to come to the same awakening, the true meaning of the truth. Hopefully, the time will come soon, to have the ability to do both. I appreciate so much Burt, the encouragement and your personal reasoning, right or wrong, we must all consider the direction JEHOVAH provides to us all. We can certainly be grateful that He does read our hearts and our intent in trying to do what He in the end requires of each of us.

          • Burt Reynolds

            You’re absolutely right about brothers and sisters in the congregation being there to help the struggling. Aarrrggh! What to do….what to DO!

            • Cocheta

              Burt, you said “When the time comes and brothers and sisters need to make a choice or understand it, then I intend to go and help, because if by then my family still refuse to listen, then I must help those who may”…………. Burt, I know we have discussed this privately about going back to the KH, but your statement made me think on your predicament.
              How can you possibly help those brothers & sisters struggling to make a choice if they don’t know you?

              Surely they will have to have come to know you & trust you before they will listen – you are a stranger now & if you continue to stay away you will still be a stranger, do you think that confused, hurt & upset Witnesses without any sure direction will listen to a stranger?

              Go back Grasshopper, go back 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              Ah! ‘Glasshopper’ (as it always sounded to me). To be honest, without trying to make excuses for myself, I am not sure that knowing someone personally will make a difference to someone listening. Jesus read the heart of the Centurian who had only heard of him, never met him, but by asking for help for his manservant he showed he recognised the truth Christ carried. At the other end of the scale, none of us have met but all of us recognise truth when we see it, hear it, even feel it. When one factors in desperate people searching for a way out, what better ground could there be for a witness where people will listen? People also listen to a stranger coming to their doorstep. Carrying the truth. Many of us came to an understanding that way. Yet you are right in that being a familiar sight in the congregation may help, yet it may also hinder too because those of us who are known to hold views as contrary to the ‘truth’ as witnesses now see it to be, are held to be in suspicion, or even apostate. Will that make them more likely to suddenly have a change of heart if the truth is not in them and you are seen as suspect in your beliefs?

              So what will endear us to those who will listen at that time? Your personality surely will and so you are right in what you say, yet surely it is not ourselves that will overcome this barrier of doubt, but the heart of the one seeking truth. Who will speak for us? Certainly not us, but Jehovah speaking through us to reach that one. ‘Do not plan what you are to say, for the words will be given to you at that time…’ Though this applies to the annointed speaking before kings, surely the principle applies to us all in that time.

              In every case, it is not our own words that convince the person seeking truth, but their heart condition that opens their eyes to the spoken word. And even then, it is not our words but those of the bible. Do we assume also that the only people who will be saved are those within the congregation? Or will there be neighbours, or strangers stopping us in the street and asking what to do? Where to go? How to get help? What is happening? No. Our field will be everywhere, everyone, every kindness and every extended hand.

              Should I be at the Kingdom Hall? Yes, I see and I even feel Roberts analysis on the matter to be a Christian act. Can I do it? I don’t know to be honest and I have stated my emotive reasons both here and in prayer. I don’t know if I am justified or excusing myself. I believe that the temple is within the heart and not the literal place that was destroyed and ransomed. I know from the bible that Jehovah goes to those in confusion and extends his hand to them. Am I clasping that hand? Why would Jehovah not leave a stone upon a stone of the literal temple if that temple were not now in the heart? What building can house Jehovah? Yet it is the gathering of ourselves together where the temple resides both collectively and individually. But the collective temple is now sour and corrupted, obstinate and blind. Seething with anguish, divisions and confusion. Certainly there is room for us to be in there with it to assist where we can, but that does not exclude others who have fled the disgusting thing early, from being used to gather sheep where they may be found both in and outside of the hall. It is not us that make people listen, but it is the heart of those that will hear, that will hear his voice and come out. We, or certainly I, am just a vessel, though I hope not an empty one. If my wife were to walk out on me tomorrow, I would go to the hall tomorrow. But so long as there is hope of persuading her to taste and see, I think I will linger on the outside as I have already lost my family once before to the machinations of the elders who through those machinations have alienated some of my children for decades, and not in the truth either! But one way or another, I will be found outside the hall, rather than, I sincerely hope, thrown outside of the temple, as illustrated in Roberts article of recent date, to assist where I may.

              What is more important, my face or my words? We all have been given our ‘talents’ and given leeway as to how we use them. I only pray that I am doing more than burying mine, in the small works that I do achieve. I do though keep your thoughts at the forefront of my mind and thank you sincerely for them.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              More food for thought. The shepherd and the sheepfolds.

              Jesus’s perspective concerning the sheep.

              John 10:
              3 The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
              27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me
              28 I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means ever be destroyed, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
              29 What my Father has given me is something greater than all other things, and no one can snatch them out of the hand of the Father.
              30 I and the Father are one. Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/john/10/#v43010027

            • Burt Reynolds

              Thanks Kevin.

        • Observing Quietly

          Hi Joyce, this is my first time posting and your comments about going back to meetings are of particular interest to me. My husband and I talk often about “going back” but have reached the conclusion that since many of the prophecies in the Bible compare our day to the “ending days” of Jerusalem, we look at what went on there to help us. Jesus told them to “flee to the mountains”. He told them don’t go back into your house to get things, just get out of there as fast as you can. We put that together with Revelation saying “get out of her MY PEOPLE, if you don’t want to share in her sins” and have come to the conclusion that we don’t want to go back to the meetings or be involved in supporting JW.Org. We spend a lot of time here on this website and in reading Robert Kings book and simply reading the Bible. We have learned more here in the last year than either of us have in 45 years of being witnesses. Just a thought for you to think about. Neither of us will be returning to the Organization’s meetings.

          • Beverly kenyon

            Hiya Observing Quietly, your user name is so peaceful…love it! I know your post is directed to Joyce but I just had to say how I love…after 45yrs as witnesses you and your husband have made your decision about meetings. It couldn’t have been easy for you both and I respect that. So glad you have each other for support. It’s lovely that you’ve introduced yourself and shared your story.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Observing Quietly, how very nice to meet you here. I hope that we shall hear more from you. Yes, it’s a personal matter whether to attend meetings or not. As everyone on this site knows, I have an ongoing battle with ambiguous feelings about going back, but I have to admit to myself that the love of and for our brothers and sisters in trying to help them as the end draws near as Roberts suggests does seem in line with the scriptural ethos, if not actually written….if it is, I recant now!! The basis for belief I understand is that in the time of destruction of the temple, and of the disgusting thing appearing, it was then that the inhabitants were told to leave, those that did not, got killed by the Roman army in 70 AD. But then the bible does not say to stay until the end either, so in many respects, your feelings are correct too, to my way of thinking. But nevertheless, if we do not tell the brothers and sisters, then who will? But then some in this site also have had enough and do not wish to go back, but others are determined to do just that.

            Another part of the sense of feeling on this matter is that the place of safety is the temple, and the example given was that Jehovah directed the Israelites to stay in or go to, Babylon lest they be killed…the seat of darkness if you like. So there is Room to consider that maybe we are being asked to stay until due time for whatever reason. But then, where is the temple now? In the heart.

            I have made up my mind to do something along the lines suggested, but I want to take my family with me, and I won’t be able to do that until they can understand why….and I’m not making a great deal of progress with that in certain areas. What is of comfort to me is that it is evident that Jehovah understands our heart condition and that he searches out these ones and goes to them! Though I can and do, thoroughly understand your feelings…my experience was not nice, I would not close the door on your decision not to go back, though your feelings are justified and true. The way I have been considering it is this: if I pass a house burning down, and someone is screaming for help from the upper window, every fibre of my being will tell me not to go in there, but every utterance of my conscience will tell me not waste a second and to go and try to save that life. It means going into fire of Gehenna, figuratively, as it may cost me much hardship and hurt, but then, what would my life be like if I did not? So it is with the Kingdom Hall at times and as reported here often, that people think they have lost an hour or so of their life never to get it back again when they attend, and yet, as with the burning house, that destroys, so too they feel there is life within that may be saved. How loving of them. As the old song went, fear not those that kill the body, but cannot destroy the soul.

            Lovely to meet you, I hope you will enjoy further discussion here. I have to say, after all the years I did in the watchtower, like you I have learnt more here than I ever did there, but also, the genuine love and fellowship here, is also far far far greater than it ever was at the hall. This is what I imagined Jehovah’s people to be like. Taste and see. Drink life’s waters here free.

          • Joyce Haze

            Dear Observing, this has been a huge struggle for many. Of course always searching the scriptures to make my fading okay! Although as of late, may have a change of heart. None of us wish to have our faith and service to JEHOVAH in vain. I’m not sure whether you are familiar with perimeno.ca, or not. I was helped to have a little better understanding of the meaning of endurance. You may wish to take a look at a couple of his articles. “Does God have an organization”, also “my people like it that way”, very interesting and a lot of food for thought as to does HE require us to abide by HIS arrangement of things. In the end we must decide for ourselves as to is it required to remain or go back. Welcome to the little group of searchers, always trying to have a better understanding. Appreciate a reply back as to your thoughts on the articles.

            • Observing Quietly

              Thank you Beverly, Burt and Joyce for making me feel welcome. I understand everyone here makes there own choices and simply wanted to share how my husband and I came to the choice we made. This was not a decision we came to easily as you can imagine. But in the end, what we see is “Jerusalem” (The Organization) surrounded now and have decided to flee. I also feel that many of those in that day who knew Jesus prophecy did not wait until the last minute to leave. These were the ones waiting in the hills to help the last minute ones who were fleeing. I have very few family left in the org as does my husband and we have spent time discussing things with them and for the most part, they are in the JW mindset so we let them be, at the same time making ourselves available if they have questions. As to meetings being a requirement of Jehovah? Jesus said where two or more of you are gathered together in my name, he is there. The meetings as we see them today are not and never were Jehovah’s arrangement. They are designed and set up and directed by men. They promote men and imply that if you don’t obey them, you aren’t obeying Jehovah, effectively putting themselves on the same level as Jehovah and we just don’t believe that.

              So, as long as we don’t forsake gathering together to discuss Jehovah and his purposes and how much he means in our lives, we feel we are meeting the scriptures requirement for meetings. Yes, Joyce we have looked over perimeno’s website but enjoy this one more.

            • Joseph Stephan

              Welcome to you both!! May Jehovah continue to bless you both in your lifelong service to him! I find your conclusion compelling, truthful and honest! And I’m certain that Jehovah finds great favor in the both of you!! Nice to have you here observing with us brother and sister OQ.

            • Observing Quietly

              Thank you Joseph Stephan, your enthusiasm is delightful!

            • Kevin b

              Glad to have you both here. I can understand how you both feel, there is a lot of drama at the Kingdom Hall and there is certainly a lot of people trying to impress each other in the cogregation. JWs are also some of the most judgmental people you will ever meet. Ok, now I forget why I’m still going, is there a plus side to this whole meeting thing. Hopefully everyone still going will know when to leave. I’ll be glad when the crazy is over. Until then you have found a place to get real spiritual enlightenment and encouragement, welcome!

            • Burt Reynolds

              I agree very much with the sentiments that Joseph expresses, and find your point well founded. It’s helpful to me as well. Lovely to have your thoughts, they show very good insight and I need lots of that.

          • Bklyn Kevin

            Hello and welcome Observing quietly nice to have you with us.

            I truly understand your feelings concerning the congregational meetings as I’m sure most of us here do and had similar experiences, it really is sad what’s going on these days in the congregations and I surely respect your decision.

            However I do hope you will reconsider your decision after listening to these podcasts I’m sharing with you from Brother Robert King.
            May Jehovah bless your endeavors.

            Podcast #1
            This is the first of a renewed commitment to my regularly producing podcasts in order to answer questions from you, the listener. This episode considers questions regarding whether Jehovah’s Witnesses ought not to leave the Watchtower organization in view of its error and corruption. And is the Watchtower Babylon the Great?
            https://e-watchman.com/podcast-1/

            Podcast #14
            This program considers caller’s questions regarding how to go forward in the knowledge of the Watchtower Society’s errors. Also, email questions concerning various aspects of chronology https://e-watchman.com/podcast-14/

            • Burt Reynolds

              I just read your post on trolling…teleologist…dictionary term..Teleology (from Greek telos, meaning end or purpose) is the philosophical study of nature by attempting to describe things in terms of their apparent purpose, directive principle, or goal. A purpose that is imposed by a human use, such as that of a fork, is called extrinsic. Looks like he is one of those people who keep asking ‘why’ to make the victim explain themselves endlessly. The psychology of it determines a person with a deep need for attention and self love, attention seeking with a deep need to cause harm to others, to gain attention to ones self….a sort of attention seeking by proxy. We need a troll alert system before teleologist comes back.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              This ain’t Teleologist first visit he has been here before just checked his profile .
              It was some months back and he was strolling with the same issue
              I had assumed that everybody would realize that he was trolling but I guess I was wrong , I apologize for not notifying everybody sooner . PS thank you for the extra information it was a very interesting read.

            • Teleologist

              Hi Kevin,
              Thanks for directing everyone to my profile where they can see my refutation of the Watchtower’s blood doctrine.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Teleologist, during the WT study article Page 30 Paragraphs 7 & 10 yesterday, I whispered to my Witness friend that us Witnesses are Teleologists and I explained that we see a purpose in nature and yes there is a name for it…she found that interesting, so thanks for bringing that out…I really like it! And also can I just say, don’t you think that was a bit cheeky having a go at Bkly Kevin when he pointed out that you came across as troll like when that’s how it did come across. You sank your teeth in the issue and wasn’t letting it go. Kevin b pointed it out also but you weren’t having it either and came across as actually being offended! I can only guess that you either like winding people up or you have been affected by the blood issue or you just like debating to the bitter end!!

            • Teleologist

              What are you? Some kind of self appointed censor.

            • Teleologist

              Burt, boy did you get this wrong! Every JW is a teleologist which is a person that sees purpose in nature. If you see purpose in nature then you also are a teleologist. I came across this term while debating with evolutionists that think nature is the result of a random accidental process. On debate forums where evolution is the topic it is the teleologists versus the Darwinists. What side are you on?
              Why are you going out of your way to misrepresent me with this troll nonsense? Just because I disagree with the Watchtower’s blood policy doesn’t make me a troll anymore than others on this forum are trolls for disagreeing with the Watchtower on 1914 or child molestation.
              And what have I recently posted that warrants your derogatory claim that I am seeking attention with a need to harm others? That is ridiculous! Cite a post from me where I’ve done anything like that. I’ve only had maybe 4 posts in the past couple of days and there was nothing trollish about them. And before that I had not posted to this forum for a year or more and most of those I debated back then are gone now. I only recognize one person from back then that is still here so almost everyone here has had no contact with me. So what is your problem?

            • Kevin b

              The blood issue is a very touchy subject with JWs. Blood transfusions were banded in 1945. It’s been tweaked back and forth, up and down since then by the branch. There is no scriptural reasoning that I know of that allows for blood to be fractionalized and then taken into the body. But that is the rule that the governing body has in play. It’s up to everyone’s own conscience on what you do about refusing blood or taking in blood fractions, period. Remember, blood fractions which are on the approved list are stored outside of the body and are from someones donated blood. JWs are not allowed to donate blood but can benefit from others who do. They are not allowed to store their own blood outside their body for a future operation. My point is, is that the branch has made a mess of the blood issue. I know witnesses who consciences won’t allow them to take blood at all. I also know some that will take fractions. I know some that would have a transfusion if needed. I know witnesses that do some pretty shady things and hide it. If you look at the 10 commandments how many do they break without any remorse. There are a lot of things you could do worst than take in blood and be an approved member of the congregation. IMO Satan is pulling a lot of strings in the branch. What better way is there than to cause divisions amongst the brothers than a controversial subject, and believe me the blood issue is at the top of the list. As I get older I don’t worry about who does what at the Kingdom Hall. Nothing surprises me any more. I just worry about me and my family. Believe me JWs are no better than worldly people in a lot of ways. Your not going to convince anyone here one way or the other about blood, JWs beliefs are deeply ingrained. You’ve posted around 32 comments on ewatchman, 25 revolving around the blood issue. I think you mean well and are passionate about the issue, but it’s not going to end well. Just let it go and leave it with Jehovah. I don’t believe you were meaning to troll on here, but the whole blood issue has been discussed, let’s move on. Just trying to be honest, much love brother.

            • Joseph Stephan

              I love it when you chime in, straight forward and to the point . Tell it like it is and leave no one out……….BAM!

            • Teleologist

              Hi Kevin b, you said:
              “You’ve posted around 32 comments on ewatchman, 25 revolving around the blood issue. I think you mean well and are passionate about the issue, but it’s not going to end well. ”

              Most of those 32 comments were from a year ago. There has only been one post from me recently dealing with the blood issue in any significant way and it was about blood fractions. A subject that others have commented on including you just now. Yet for some reason a lot of hostility has been directed toward me for doing the same thing. others are doing on this forum. Persons are calling me a troll which doesn’t fit me in anyway. I don’t recall being called a troll a year ago when I posted a lot more about the blood issue than now. And by the way, it did end well. I presented my views and others presented their views and then we parted company. That’s the way it should be.

            • Kevin b

              Everything you said is true. I enjoyed our conversation back then on this topic, it did end well. It’s in the archives for all to see. When you asked Cocheta how she felt about the blood issue because she kinda mentioned it in her comment, I cringed a little bit I have to admit. She’s new here but handled it great. She went to the archives on her own to check your history and figured out that many of your comments are about blood, which I have no problem talking about. It’s been talked about and ended well as you said. But you’re not willing to leave it there, so the ones who also feel strongly about the blood issue have a voice as well. So in the eyes of others on here watching and reading, you prodded her into talking about the blood issue. That’s why you were called a troll. I’m sure you can understand why some would come to that conclusion.

            • Teleologist

              Kevin b said:
              “That’s why you were called a troll. I’m sure you can understand why some would come to that conclusion.”

              Sure, but it still seems like an overreaction to me. Cocheta made a comment that caused me to think we might be on the same page. concerning the blood issue All I did was ask her a couple of questions to see if that was the case. Once it became clear she did not want to discuss her views on blood I was determined to drop her like a hot potato. I was willing to leave it there. What complicated things was her thinking that I was telling her that the Bible doesn’t forbid the eating of blood. Where she came up with that idea I don’t know as I never said any such thing. I felt I had to clear that misunderstanding up so my conversation with her went on a couple of posts longer than I wanted it to. But the whole episode was over in a couple of days. I will be more careful in the future but I suspect the hostility I am getting from some persons is to silence me on the blood issue.

            • Teleologist

              conclusion.

            • Teleologist

              Kevin b said:

              “That’s why you were called a troll. I’m sure you can understand why some would come to that conclusion.”

              Sure, but you are the first person to say that I was being called a troll because of my posts to Cocheta. I assumed it was because they didn’t like me being critical of the Watchtower’s blood doctrine. Backing this suspicion up is a recent post by Bklyn Kevin where he refers to my blood debate from over a year ago as trolling. You were on this debate so you know it wasn’t trolling. So either Bklyn Kevin doesn’t know what trolling is or he is deliberately misrepresenting me.

              Cocheta made a comment that made be suspect we might be on the same page in regard to the blood issue. So I asked her a couple of questions. It quickly became clear that she wasn’t interested so I was prepared to drop her like a hot potato. But she thought I was arguing that the Bible doesn’t forbid eating blood. I have no idea where she got this so I spent a little time trying to clear that up. But this whole episode only involved a few posts over a few days and it was over. Now there are people looking at my profile and claiming that the blood debate from over year ago supports the contention that I have a history of trolling. Ridiculous.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Teleologist two days ago you said :
              Teleologist Bklyn Kevin • 2 days ago
              “Hi Kevin Thanks for directing everyone to my profile where they
              can see my (refutation of the Watchtower’s) blood doctrine.

              So overall your argument concerning the blood issue is really directed at the watchtower according to your own words when you said “(refutation of the Watchtower’s blood doctrine’s) .

              So now that we all understand that your “refutation” is
              directed at the watchtower –
              My question to you is “why are you not refuting this blood issue
              with them the watchtower since your argument is directed at them???.

              I mean after all is not the watchtower that you have your disagreement with???.

              You need to seriously think about these questions that I’m asking you! Why –
              because quite frankly you have already brought these question up concerning the blood issue to our attention a year ago and then again recently with many questions on which you received answers based on people’s conscience resolve which have nothing to do with the watchtower but is their own personal opinions
              based on their bible trained conscience bearing witness to them as guidance.

              But yet Teleologist you continue to be persistent and
              I have to stop and ask myself why? And TROLLING is the only logical conclusion I can come up with based on your behavior.

              Now you are trying to continue YOUR TROLING debate by insinuating that I don’t know what TROLING is and that I’m deliberately misrepresenting you, so non you are pointing the finger at me because I had (revealed your TROLING) activity and that’s exactly what trolls do when they smell their own hole –
              you are wretched and perhaps need to seek professional help.

              Now like I said last year in my original post to you >Bklyn Kevin Teleologist year ago .
              “It appears you have a talent for twisting words / things around as
              well as the questions that you had ask or subjects that you inquire about, with all due respect that’s a form of trolling, perhaps you are not aware that you are trolling but nonetheless you are.
              Read more>
              https://disqus.com/home/discussion/ewatchman/whom_does_satan_target/#comment-2438321620

              10 Types of Internet Trolls You’ll Meet Online
              2 The persistent
              debate troll

              This type of troll loves a good argument. They can take a great,
              thoroughly researched and fact-based piece of content, and come at it from all
              opposing discussion angles to challenge its message.
              They believe they’re right, and everyone else is wrong. You’ll often also find
              them leaving long threads or arguments with other commenters in community
              comment sections, and they’re always determined to have the “last
              word” — continuing to comment until that other user gives up. https://www.lifewire.com/types-of-internet-trolls-3485894

            • Burt Reynolds

              I just love the terminology.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Wow, Kevin b, that was so beautifully put…no dilly dallying with fancy words…just BAM!! This is how it is…move along! And you’re right nothing is surprising anymore! It was interesting to discuss the blood issue but Teleologist did flog it to death a bit!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Trolling along, singing this song, side by siiide. ?

            • Joseph Stephan

              ?RED ALERT ?

            • Observing Quietly

              Thank you for your thoughtfulness Bklyn Kevin, but we will not go back into “Jerusalem”. It’s taken us two years of good hard study and research and we will wait on Jehovah quietly outside the city he plans to destroy and offer what ever assistance we can to others who leave. We have heard these e-watchman podcast as they were part of our research. Our love and faith in Jehovah has not dimmed and is better than ever before. I only wanted to share with others why we will not return to the organization so they have both points of view.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello observing quietly, I found it really helpful in my own deliberations how you felt you had left the city, instead of waiting until the last minute, and in a way, it seems to me to be an irrefutable arguement, but sad to say I don’t rest easy with my superficial knowledge and so depend on guidance, but it is a comfort to consider both points of reason. I don’t know what I could achieve in going back to the hall. I am not known here and would only be looked upon as an upstart. Not that such would stop me. But at a time when the watchtower begins visibly to crumble I do see a value. At this point in time though I’m just so disappointed in the behaviours of the watchtower I’m far from wanting to associate, even moreso with the quality of teaching. Robert didn’t go to the study on beards he says….lost heart…or was rightly exasperated, ..and others feel the same now and then and don’t go, so what is the level of commitment to be and what judgement does it bring with it? That brings us back to the heart condition and that for me is the bit I concentrate on. There are so many opinions, so many thoughts, so many rights and wrongs so many scriptures that seem to suggest…even how to spell….I bring myself back to the simplicity of the creation, to ground my feet and heart. Always the ‘simple’ leaf that springs from the bud, except that it’s not just one, it’s a dozen, and fruit and branch along with it. And it sits there on the tree in silent testimony to the creator, quietly transforming light into sugars, food, and eventually feeding us and itself when it’s leaves fall. And by his mighty hand, Jehovah shows all, that he is both loving and kind, understanding and just. He asks us to give back little, or as much as we can, knowing we are but dust. So you give, I give, we all give back according to our being and are humbled by the leaf. So what we can, we must give according to our strength and love for Jehovah. Some will give their lives, others will save lives, some will witness, others will give Silent testimony as Christ did on occasion. Jehovah will judge the truthfulness of our hearts. Jehovah is more merciful than his people.

            • Observing Quietly

              Thank you Burt, you write very eloquently and have described so much what both my husband and I agree with.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Observing Quietly, I’ve just this minute finished reading Burt’s post to you and your Husband and thought how beautiful he put his point across…I love trees…always have! Ever since I read your first post I just kept thinking of your story…it kept popping in and out of my mind. I think it’s because you made an informed and conscious decision and acted on it! No messing about! I love and respect someone who will do what they believe is the right and proper thing to do and then just do it! I’ve always found the 70ce account of Jerusalem fascinating! I think during the lead up to the Destruction of Jerusalem, I’m sure Jewish Christians would’ve been exiting the city, probably years before the actual destructing and the Disgusting Thing standing where it shouldn’t. So for me, you and your husband leaving the city early is a sensible thing to do and you did spend 40 odd years in service to Jehovah, so it’s not like you’re both novices. You both being here is our gain.

            • Observing Quietly

              Thank you Beverly, great warm hugs to you! Both my husband and I were baptized in 1971 so it has been a long long time. We shall continue to monitor this lovely website and wait on Jehovah for all things to happen in his time. Some days we wish he would just get it done and others it’s easy to wait. We do enjoy reading other’s comments and seeing how they have come to their conclusions.

            • Cocheta

              stay with us & don’t just Observe Quietly please, I love your words.

            • LW
            • Cocheta

              so beautiful, LW, thank you. I just love the Scripture quoted “He will wipe out every tear from their eyes….” I always remember when my daughter was small she had to read that Scripture in a meeting & she said, very dramatically, “and He will WHIP out every tear from their eyes”.
              I loved the river there & the waterfall, we don’t have rivers here & I look forward to the time when I can maybe have a rowboat & sail off……….row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream….life is but a dream 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              I thank you for your kind sentiments. There is though, as you pointed out, the commandment not to forsake the gathering of yourselves together; where two or three of you are gathered together, there Christ will be. And so while you are recovering from the great changes thrust upon you in your service to Jehovah, in line with that commandment, you could if you wish, continue your association here and encourage your husband to contribute as you have done, so that we can benefit from your experiences and fellow love of righteousness. You and your husband have stood firm for the truth over many many years, without wavering and have put truth above your strong commitment to Jehovah’s organisation when the governing body transgressed the word of Jehovah. What insight, what faith, and what discernment born of love of Jehovah to recognise these things. So in return, Jehovah has opened your eyes to the truth ever more, That It has not disappeared with the governing body. Well, here is truth and a sanctuary in these times. You have observed quietly and satisfied yourself to many things spoken here. In line with your epithet, maybe you and your husband may wish to change it to the next step up, of Joining In Joyously! Please do.

            • Cocheta

              Burt, you make me cry sometimes with the beauty of your beliefs & words, you speak truth

    • Burt Reynolds

      Then your sister may be the very one to save. If you could save everyone, how wonderful that would be, but we cannot. Maybe your sister is your ‘talent’ that you will double in value. Those that want to listen, Jehovah is seeking out. Clearly he has found one that will listen, and the person she will listen to is you, and so Jehovah has given you the gift of preserving life. He has passed the talent to you and his word will speak through you. Wonderful.

      • Bobby 6343

        wow! That was very insightful, I did not think of it that way. By talking to my sister hours on end I feel I have sharpen my understanding. Of course the lessons from Jehovah never stops. Thank you for your thoughts!

    • Joseph Stephan

      Because their serving Jehovah in “T H E – F O G”
      Fear – Obligation – Guilt

      Until their stumbled or hurt and turn on the fog lights, they won’t see the TTaTT.
      ( the truth about the truth)

    • DA

      tell me aboit it

    • DA

      tell me about it

    • ELiJAHx7

      I too prayed and do pray intently for the truth, I sincerely love the truth of Jehovah…..Jehovah is looking for those such persons to worship Him….Keep praying brother, Jehovah has blessed us and we owe Him our exclusive devotion!

    • Burt Reynolds

      That’s amazing. Being shown scripture and them assuming apostacy of you for bringing it to their attention! No thought to look again at what is being said by the organisation. That really is sad.

  • Anderiega

    I love articles like this one. Helps me on difficult days. I appreciate everybody’s comments so much. It IS so hard going to meetings. I try to tell myself to stop “over thinking” things and to “roll my anxieties on Jehovah,” but it’s still really really hard. For me at least, it’s getting harder each week. Perhaps it’s the lack of sunlight and serotonin in my neighborhood.

    Im “up to date” with JW broadcast… partially because I do try to pan for the gold and also because it’s all people in the congregation talk about….and I want to be able to be a part of the conversation (since I obviously cannot discuss elephants like 1914, UN, Royal Commission, or even scriptures about 1914). So I will say this…I looked up towards the heavens and smiled to Jehovah and Jesus as Geoffrey Jackson gave his talk “expect the unexpected.” It is interesting….being in THIS headspace at THIS time in THIS organization. I never could’ve expected to have THESE thoughts…. BUT Im thankful I’m not totally alone…. y’all have been such a therapeutic support system even if I can’t see your faces or real names.

    In the following talk by Anthony Morris, he said “just like the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, Jehovah has had enough of the sexual depravity and just like in Genesis chapters 13 and 18 Jehovah has heard the “cries of complaint going up.” This made me think of the growing numbers of child sex abuse “cries of complaint.” But this “governing body” member just gives his talk and laughs around with the audience at his own jokes. To tell you the truth….all this screen time of “governing body” members is so weird to me as a person raised as a witness since the 80s. I’m at a loss for words because it is just so weird! We’re watching videos during meetings, our kids know Caleb and Sophia more than Bible stories, and we’re playing videos at doors rather than having conversations. I guess I’m old school, but the meetings have kinduv turned into a Sunday school!

    “Expect the unexpected”….I can agree on that one at least.

  • Burt Reynolds

    Well, the ‘pushing’ has begun already! Trump is demanding a certain politician, I forget his name, comes to be the British ambassasador and the one we have, I presume, is sacked. As this proposed politician is not even a member of the current government, our prime minister is a bit miffed! If our lot are digging in about this little item, then I can’t wait until it starts to get serious! Should be fun. Maybe we will all go down laughing!

    • Joyce Haze

      Burt, Trump just tweeted a few minutes ago, annoyed, as Britain is wishing a crony as ambassador. Already much discord on the issue. Although many of his so called picks have inflamed establishment politicians.

      • Joyce Haze

        So, this would be the image shown in Daniel 2:33, the feet were partly of iron and partly of molded clay, separating, not sticking together! Do I have this image right?

      • Burt Reynolds

        Ah right! Well the chap he is after represents the typical English buffoon and an easily manipulated ‘yes man’, so one can see the attraction for trump, not to mention the adulation he will get from him, or already has. I think if anyone wishes to aspire to the greatest depth a man can sink, then politics is the profession of choice, and to round off a career in politics one must always end it in failure. As was said of politicians, ‘every successful politician must end his career in failure.’ I presume the speaker referred to not being re-elected, but to me it always meant corruption.

  • Anderiega

    Thank you brother King for posting that 1935 watchtower quote. Wow. I love it.

  • DA

    this mite be of intrest in relation to this essay – How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation – wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001051

  • Council of Nicaea, Illuminati, Skull an Bones, Chatham House, Governing Body, etc.; same fraternal satanic think tank by any other name, all fingers of the same hand

  • Christine Melendez

    Hello Everyone! Im curious as to how you feel this org will eventually crumble. Seems impossible to me.

  • Noe Namely

    I love it when you talk about that Brother Rob….When you talk about identifying the Man of Lawlessness I find myself feeling not as lost..that I might at least have a fighting chance. Thank You for all your fine work! I know the Truth is here yet feel closed off from it. I think I’m still mourning the loss of being lead around by the chin. Even though I’ve gone back to a few meetings recently, I dislike being there because I have to play act and in my heart, I feel like I am being deceptive like the WT Study touched on Sunday, February 5, 2017. This is my biggest stumbling block at the moment. Knowing what I have learned here is real & so beneficial! But having to act like I believe the GB is at the head of the table, acknowledging the false or mistaken doctrine. When I’m there and acting like I agree with all of that, I sit there staring up at the platform wondering if I am to be judged for such behavior? I wonder that if I were to knock on doors and suddenly be in a position to tell the house holder the truth or the Truth…this is my delimia. As many of you have said, we have all been put into a trying situation. If you were to have asked me 2-3 years ago if I could ever be a member of a web site that spoke counter to the Organization…I would have told you under no uncertain terms that there is no way I would even visit these sites…yet, here I am…..believing what I find here, I wonder how many of you cope? Do you still attend meetings? Do you still go out into the Field Service to preach the truth or will you preach the Truth if presented the opportunity? These are al l things I battle with almost every day. I think I need a hobby……

    Best to All!

  • Francis Bencharles

    They better appoint another false apostle as right now these guys are fitting well the spiritual fulfillment (as opposed to the political fulfillment) of the Seven headed wild beast of Revelation. Seven heads, with seven oversight committees and ten zones (horns).

  • Francis Bencharles

    Nailed It!

  • Song of Hannah

    I find it fascinating that their own footnote in paragraph 3 contradicts this assertion:

    3 *Evidently, Jehovah purposed to have 12 apostles form the future “12 foundation stones” of New Jerusalem. (Rev. 21:14) Thus, there was no need to replace any faithful apostle who later finished his earthly course.

    • Maybe some conscientious editor slipped that in there? ;~)

  • Hamparsum Menekse

    Fake Jehovah Witness es trust organization because fear of Armageddon they think organization saves not Jehovah.and they are reward seekers.i don’t need reward I have no problem expiring forever dead I will still serve honor Jehovah best to my ability.

    • Beverly kenyon

      That’s the spirit Hamparsum! True! ???

  • “Paul’s use of the pronoun “us” is in reference to the apostles.”

    good point. not the GB today.

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