The Prophets and the Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

//The Prophets and the Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

QUESTION: Here is a quote from one of your articles I don’t understand “Just as Jesus indicated that the Law and the Prophets were until John (the Baptizer), secondarily, or rather – primarily – the Prophets are until the second coming of Jesus Christ.” Where do you get your understanding on the prophets are until the second coming of Christ?

Jesus made the statement that the Law and the Prophets were until John to impress upon the Jews that a new phase of God’s purpose was beginning then; that, being the advent of the Kingdom of God —Jesus being the King.

As we know, Jesus’ sacrificial death brought an end to the law covenant. Also, the prophets pointed forward to the coming of the Messiah. But unlike the law covenant, the Hebrew prophecies were not all fulfilled in Jesus. Virtually all of the prophets speak in one way or another to the second coming of Christ. (In fact, many aspects of the Mosaic law also point to the administration of Christ, such as his work as Jehovah’s priest.) 

For example, in the context of Jesus’ remarks in the 11th chapter of Matthew concerning the Law and the Prophets Jesus revealed that John the Baptizer was the “Elijah” to come in fulfillment of prophecy. However, the prophecies themselves make it clear that there is an “Elijah” forerunner who precedes the day of Jehovah. The very last verse of the entire Hebrew catalogue states: “Look! I am sending to you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah. And he will turn the hearts of fathers back toward sons, and the hearts of sons back toward fathers, so that I may not come and strike the earth, devoting it to destruction.”

Jesus’ statement that the Prophets were until John was not intended to imply that the prophecies had no future application beyond the first century. Reasonably, logically, what Jesus intended to establish is a pattern. Just as Elijah had a successor in the form of Elisha, John the Baptizer preceded Christ and introduced him to the Jews; likewise, the second coming of Christ will immediately precede the “great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah.”

And if you want to accept it, Jesus himself is the “Elijah” to come. And true to the pattern Jesus will appoint a successor over all of his belongings.

By the way, in Hebrew the name of Elijah means my God is Jehovah.

But as regards the prophets —plural —just for fun let’s briefly examine each book of prophecy and see if all the prophets really do point to the second coming of Christ.

THE PROPHECY OF ISAIAH

The book of Isaiah is loaded with messianic prophecies, intermingling his first and second coming in the same context. Take the 11th chapter as a sample, where it states:  “A twig will grow out of the stump of Jesse, and a sprout from his roots will bear fruit. And the spirit of Jehovah will settle upon him, the spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the spirit of counsel and of mightiness, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah. And he will find delight in the fear of Jehovah. He will not judge by what appears to his eyes, nor reprove simply according to what his ears hear. He will judge the lowly with fairness, and with uprightness he will give reproof in behalf of the meek ones of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth and put the wicked to death with the breath of his lips.”

The stump of Jesse is a reference to Jesse’s son, David, whom Jehovah made a covenant with for an everlasting kingdom. David’s kingdom was cut down though, leaving just a figurative stump. However, Jesus was a descendent of Jesse and David making him a legal heir of the throne. Jehovah’s spirit settled down upon him when he was baptized by John and anointed as the messianic king. Hence, the twig sprouted from the stump. Jesus certainly had a spirit of wisdom and understanding, surpassing the understanding of any mere flesh-born human. But, obviously Jesus has not struck the earth with the rod of his mouth, nor has he put the wicked to death. That is reserved for the second coming, when he shepherds the nations with an iron rod.

By the way, in Hebrew the name Isaiah literally means salvation of Jehovah, which is what the name Jesus means as well.

THE PROPHECY OF JEREMIAH

Next in canonical order is the book of Jeremiah. Although Jeremiah prophesied against Jerusalem —foretelling it’s complete destruction —he also foretold the recuperation of God’s people. However, chapters 30-31 of Jeremiah foretells the restoration of God’s people to their land and God establishing a new covenant with them as taking place during the final part of the days.

And of course, we know that the new covenant, which was only inaugurated in the first century, with Jesus functioning as the mediator of the covenant, will come to completion when the last of the 144,000 have been gathered and sealed —at the second coming of Christ, during the conclusion of the system, or final part of the days if you prefer. Paul revealed as much when he explained to the Corinthians regarding the Lord’s Evening meal: “For whenever you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he comes.”

When the Lord comes that will qualify as his second coming and conclude the new covenant. 

THE PROPHECY OF DANIEL

Next, the prophecy of Daniel is all about the parousia and coming of Christ in his Kingdom. From the miraculous appearance in the fiery furnace of someone whom Nebuchadnezzar described as appearing as a son of the gods, to the vision in the seventh chapter of the son of man going access to the Ancient of days, to the conquest of the beast by the Prince of princes, to the standing up of Michael, the great prince to bring an end to the king of the north, all point to the coming of Christ to save his people and destroy Satan’s system.

The prophet Daniel also personally interacted with materialized angels. In doing so he participated in a prophetic drama rich with meaning. Daniel describes his encounter with the superhuman being this way: “On the 24th day of the first month, while I was on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, I looked up and saw a man clothed in linen, and around his waist was a belt of gold from Uphaz. His body was like chrysolite, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like fiery torches, his arms and his feet looked like burnished copper, and the sound of his words was like the sound of a multitude. Only I, Daniel, saw the vision; the men with me did not see the vision. However, a great trembling seized them, and they ran away and hid. Then I was left by myself, and when I saw this great vision, there was no power left in me and my dignified appearance left me and I lost all strength. Then I heard the sound of him speaking; but when I heard him speaking, I fell fast asleep with my face to the ground. But then a hand touched me, and it stirred me to get up on my hands and knees.”

Bible students should recognize the similarity of Daniel’s and the apostle John’s experience. In the book of Revelation John relates his encounter with the glorified Christ in similar terms: “I turned to see who was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed in a garment that reached down to the feet and wearing a golden sash around his chest. Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest. When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet.”

Since the identity of the glorious personage in Revelation is not in question, and the vision of Revelation is to show God’s slaves the things that must take place in the Lord’s day, it stands to reason that Daniel’s encounter also has to do with the Lord’s day. That is confirmed by the fact that the visiting angel stated that his purpose was to show Daniel what is to befall his people in the final part of the days. The fact that the angel addressed the aged prophet as a very precious man relates to the holy ones of the Supreme One, who are most precious to him. Daniel merely prefigured the holy ones. 

Interestingly, although Daniel saw the divine person the men with him did not. They were only gripped with terror due to an awareness of power beyond their sense of sight. The Jewish zealot, Saul, also had a similar experience when Christ appeared to him in a flash of light as he traveled on the road to Damascus. His companions heard the voice but saw nothing.

Later the converted Paul said of his experience that his seeing Christ was as if he was born prematurely. What did the apostle mean? All the other apostles saw Jesus in the flesh. Even in his post-resurrection/pre-ascension appearances Jesus manifested himself in materialized human bodies. However, after his ascension Jesus appeared to Paul as a glorious being, which was manifest as a flash of light. Paul’s being born premature meant that he saw Christ as he will be manifested at his second coming, what Paul referred to as “the second time that he appears.” —Hebrews 9:28

In view of what has already been stated in regards to all the visions of Daniel relating to the second coming of Christ, it seems that Daniel’s interaction with the overawing angel foreshadows Jesus’ parousia, when he becomes manifest to his precious holy ones and they see him as he is.

Check out retired Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy blog

THE PROPHECY OF HOSEA

Next in order, Hosea. The third chapter of Hosea foretells: “It is because for a long time the people of Israel will dwell without a king, without a prince, without a sacrifice, without a pillar, and without an ephod and teraphim statues. Afterward the people of Israel will come back and look for Jehovah their God and for David their king, and they will come trembling to Jehovah and to his goodness in the final part of the days.”

At no time did the people of Israel, especially their leaders, accept Jesus as the legitimate heir of the throne of David. In fact, the Jews put Jesus to death because they claimed they had no king but Cesar. Not to overlook the fact that the prophecy is to be fulfilled in the final part of the days.

Obviously, the “Israel” that will come looking for Jehovah relates to that which Paul called “the Israel of God” —a reference to the congregation of the firstborn. Contrary to the Watchtower’s teaching, though, the people of “Israel” have not come trembling to Jehovah. That will occur at the second coming of Christ.

By the way, the name Hosea, the shortened form of the name Hoshaiah, means Jehovah has saved in Hebrew —the same meaning as Jesus’ name.

THE PROPHECY OF JOEL

The next Hebrew prophecy is Joel. The apostle Peter explained that the prophecy related the Pentecost outpouring of holy spirit, which he stated was to occur in the last days.

No doubt on that special Pentecost the Jews were still abuzz about what had occurred in Jerusalem 50 days prior, when Christ was executed on a stake and the sun grew dark at high noon and a great earthquake rocked Jerusalem and the massive sanctuary curtain was ripped down the middle. But the prophecy of Joel only applied to the Pentecost outpouring of spirit in 33 CE in a very limited way. The real fulfillment is to take place, not at the inauguration of Christianity, but at it’s conclusion, during the day of Jehovah. The third chapter of Joel states: “Sun and moon will become dark, and the stars will lose their brightness. And Jehovah will roar out of Zion, out of Jerusalem he will raise his voice. And heaven and earth will rock; but Jehovah will be a refuge for his people, a fortress for the people of Israel.”

Again, no one should imagine that the modern city of Jerusalem has any role to play in prophecy. However, a symbolic city of Jerusalem is featured in virtually all prophecy —including Jesus’ own prophecy of the conclusion.

Jesus used the same phraseology as the prophets, foretelling “there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

Since Jesus revealed that the apocalyptic signs foretold in Joel really pertain to the coming of the Son of man, it is apparent that Jesus will be the one to roar and raise his voice —having come in his Father’s name.

Indeed, the 10th chapter of Revelation envisions that very thing, depicting the incoming ruler, the lion of the tribe of Judah, as a powerful angel, as he stands astride the earth and sea, obviously claiming dominion over it: “And I saw another strong angel descending from heaven, arrayed with a cloud, and a rainbow was on his head, and his face was like the sun, and his legs were like pillars of fire, and he had in his hand a little scroll that had been unrolled. And he set his right foot on the sea, but his left one on the earth, and he cried out with a loud voice just as when a lion roars. And when he cried out, the voices of the seven thunders spoke.”

So, the book of Joel is all about the coming of Christ and the final outpouring of spirit. The pouring out of the spirit on every sort of flesh, when the sons and daughters of Jehovah will prophesy, finds a parallel with what Jesus foretold would occur after the harvest, when the sons of the Kingdom will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom.

By the way, the name Joel means Jehovah is God in Hebrew.

THE PROPHECY OF AMOS

The book of Amos follows the same pattern as the other prophets. Jehovah reveals his legal case against Israel. He is ultimately forced to punish his people, especially the leadership who are sprawling on their couches of ivory; but in his compassion he restores them to his blessing. And like the other prophecies, there are overlapping features with the first and second coming of Christ Consider the last chapter, which states: “For look! I am giving the command, and I will shake the house of Israel among all the nations, just as one shakes a sieve, and not a pebble falls to the ground. They will die by the sword, all the sinners of my people, those who are saying, “The calamity will not come near us or reach us.” In that day I will raise up the booth of David that is fallen, I will repair the breaches, and I will restore its ruins; I will rebuild it as in the days of long ago, so that they may take possession of what is remaining of Edom, and all the nations on whom my name has been called,’ declares Jehovah, who is doing this.”

In the 15th chapter of Acts James quoted the prophecy of Amos and applied it to the phenomenon they were witnessing, that people of the nations, that is to say non-Jews, were accepted by Jehovah as his people. The booth of David is in reference to the Kingdom of Christ.

However, at the time of Christ’s first coming the fleshly nation of Israel was not in any need of being regathered, nor were they at that time among the nations. Nor was it possible for them to take possession of Edom, since the nation had been extinguished long before the appearance of Jesus. Clearly, the prophecy relates to the second coming of Christ. The rebuilding of the booth of David has to do with the regathering of anointed Christians and all those who are called by God’s name after the desolation of symbolic “Jerusalem” by a disgusting thing.

THE PROPHECY OF OBADIAH

The little scroll of Obadiah is next. Its single chapter concludes, saying: “And saviors will go up on Mount Zion to judge the mountainous region of Esau, and the kingship will become Jehovah’s.”

The sons of Esau, though related to the sons Jacob since Jacob and Esau were twin brothers, were nonetheless implacable enemies. Edom, though, was wiped out by Nebuchadnezzar and was never restored, as was Jacob. Nevertheless, Edom has prophetic meaning. That is evident from the fact that during the time of the end Moab and Edom will escape the world-rocking onslaught of the king of the north. Edom, then, must picture the religious enemies of the anointed Israel of God.

The Scriptures use the expression “Jehovah has become king.” However, Jehovah has always been king. He becomes king, though, when Jesus asserts Jehovah’s sovereignty. That is what Obadiah relates to —the second coming of Christ. That is when the first resurrection will begin and all of those called into the Kingdom will assemble on heavenly Mount Zion, totaling 144,000. They are the “saviors” who will judge Esau. In other words, Babylon the Great and especially the Catholic Church, the implacable enemy of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Interestingly, Revelation reveals that immediately after the harlot of Babylon is destroyed a great shout of praise ascends, proclaiming: “Praise Jah, because Jehovah our God, the Almighty, has begun to rule as king! Let us rejoice and be overjoyed and give him glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself.”

Again, Jehovah has alway been king, but he begins to rule when his Son, joined by his heavenly bride, begins ruling the world and destroys God’s enemies.

By the way, Obadiah means servant of Jehovah in Hebrew, which is what Jesus has always been.

THE PROPHECY OF MICAH

Micah is also among the prophets who foretell the judgments to be unveiled in the final part of the days. His prophecy reiterates that of Isaiah: “In the final part of the days, the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will be raised up above the hills, and to it peoples will stream. And many nations will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah and to the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. He will render judgment among many peoples and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, nor will they learn war anymore.”

The mountain of the house of Jehovah is the Kingdom of Christ. Jesus is the Wonderful Counselor and Prince of Peace, who will judge in the capacity of Jehovah and set matters straight between God and his people.

Although the Watchtower insists that the prophecy is being fulfilled already, demonstrated by the numerical growth of Jehovah’s Witnesses who have figuratively beaten their swords into plowshares, needless to say, Jesus has not rendered judgment respecting mighty nations. And without question there are many matters that have not been set straight among Jehovah’s Witnesses. Obviously, too, nations still war against each other.

Clearly, the prophecy of Micah is pointing forward to the second coming of Christ in the future.

By the way, the name Micah is the shortened form of Michael, which is the name Jesus’ bore before he became human and which he resumed upon his return to heaven.

THE PROPHECY OF NAHUM

The prophecy of Nahum is one book I don’t think I have ever written anything about. Its subject matter has to do with God’s overthrow of the cruel Assyrian Empire. However, there is an interesting incongruity. Nahum 1:15 states: “Look! On the mountains are the feet of one bringing good news, the one proclaiming peace. Celebrate your festivals, O Judah, pay your vows, for the worthless one will never pass through you again. He will be utterly destroyed.”

The anomaly is, although God wiped out the Assyrian army when they laid siege to Judah, he later employed the Babylonians to execute his judgments upon them. In that instance the worthless one did pass through the holy city again.

Furthermore, the feet of the one bringing good news is an echo of Isaiah’s prophecy, which states: “How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of the one bringing good news, the one proclaiming peace, the one bringing good news of something better, the one proclaiming salvation, the one saying to Zion: ‘Your God has become King!’”

Again, there is that expression that the King of eternity has become King. Isaiah’s prophecy relates to the repurchase of the sons of the covenant and their being made whole with God under the kingship of Christ. This ties in Nahum with the second coming of Christ, when the last earthly king, the modern Assyrian, will be utterly destroyed by Jesus.

As Revelation reveals, the prophecy of Nahum agrees: “He is causing a complete extermination. Distress will not arise a second time.”

THE PROPHECY OF HABAKKUK

According to Jehovah the prophecy of Habakkuk is a vision “yet for its appointed time, and it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late!”

The vision concerns the Chaldean whom Jehovah assigns to mete out punishment. But the punisher enjoys his work too much, which obligates Jehovah to intervene. In response to the atrocities committed by the Chaldean, “God came from Teman, the Holy One from Mount Paran. His majesty covered the heavens; with his praise the earth was filled. His brightness was like the light. Two rays flashed from his hand, where his strength was hidden. Before him went pestilence, and burning fever followed at his feet. He stood still and shook the earth. With a look, he made nations leap. The eternal mountains were smashed, and the ancient hills bowed down…Your bow is uncovered and ready. The rods are assigned with an oath…A downpour of waters swept through. The deep roared with its voice. It lifted its hands high. Sun and moon stood still in their lofty abode. Your arrows went out like the light. The lightning of your spear was brilliant. You marched through the earth with indignation.You trampled the nations in anger. You went out for the salvation of your people, to save your anointed one. You crushed the leader of the house of the wicked.

We know, Jehovah is not personally going to come to earth to set matters straight. That is what Jesus is going to do. As Jesus himself indicated war and pestilence immediately precede his appearance. The nations will rock. The sea will be boisterous, roaring in agitation. Men will become faint with fear. Like the description in Habakkuk, Jesus is also described as trampling the nations as if they were clay. He also wields a bow and a sword. And Jesus is most certainly the Savior of God’s anointed ones.

Clearly, the prophecy of Habakkuk is a vision for the appointed time of Christ’s second coming.

THE PROPHECY OF ZEPHANIAH

Zephaniah relates to the judgment of the house of God and the removal of the haughty ones from their positions of authority. The end result is stated in the third chapter: “Jehovah has removed the judgments against you.

He has turned away your enemy. The King of Israel, Jehovah, is in your midst. You will fear calamity no more.”

Following the pattern of all the other prophets, Zephaniah reveals that first comes the destruction and the removal of the corrupting elements. Then comes the restoration and ultimately salvation. As already discussed, Jehovah’s becoming king takes place through the kingship of  Jesus, who is the King of Israel.

Contrary to the teachings of the Watchtower, Jesus has not taken up ruling power over the world yet. But when he does, then that is when God’s people are given a change to a pure language. That should be evident from the context, which says: “‘So keep yourselves in expectation of me,’ declares Jehovah, ‘until the day when I rise up to take plunder, for my judicial decision is to gather nations, to assemble kingdoms, to pour out on them my indignation, all my burning anger; for by the fire of my zeal the whole earth will be consumed. For then I will change the language of the peoples to a pure language, so that all of them may call on the name of Jehovah, to serve him shoulder to shoulder.’”

In reality, it is Jesus who is coming to take plunder. He even warned his followers to stay in expectation of him because he is coming as a thief at a time they do not anticipate. And it is Jesus who is going to judge the nations.

Since the scripture plainly states that the change to the pure language of truth comes about when Jehovah rises up to take plunder, obviously that day has not arrived. The fact that the leadership of the Watchtower claim otherwise, they reveal themselves to be those against whom the judgment is coming —even as Zephaniah’s prophecy goes on to say: “On that day you will not be put to shame because of all your deeds with which you rebelled against me, for then I will remove the haughty boasters from among you; and you will never again be haughty in my holy mountain. I will allow a humble and lowly people to remain in your midst, and they will take refuge in the name of Jehovah. Those remaining of Israel will practice no unrighteousness; they will not speak a lie, nor will a deceitful tongue be found in their mouths; they will feed and lie down, and no one will make them afraid.”

Those haughty boasters proclaim themselves to be the practicers of pure religion —they claim to speak the pure language of truth, even though they speak lies in the name of Jehovah, making their lie concerning Jehovah already having become king in 1914 an article of faith. The second coming of Christ will distinguish the faithful slave from the evil slave and separate the wheat from the weeds —the meek and humble from the presumptuous and haughty boasters, just as is portrayed in the prophecy of Zephaniah.

By the way, in Hebrew Zephaniah means Jehovah has concealed, which is what Paul said in regards to Jesus; namely, “Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge.”

HAGGAI, ZECHARIAH AND MALACHI

The Watchtower has written a far bit about Haggai. In fact, Fred Franz wrote a 400 page commentary on just Zechariah and Haggai entitled Paradise Restored by Theocracy. While it is all explained in connection with the return of Christ, unfortunately it is all tied to 1914. So is the prophecy of Malachi.

But for some perspective, the book of Haggai foretells that God will fill his rebuilt house with the desirable things of the nations when he rocks the world. The Watchtower ardently believes that God has been rocking the nations for the past century; this, in spite of the fact that since WWII the world has enjoyed a prolonged period of relative peace and prosperity.

I suppose I have written enough, for now.

2017-08-23T05:38:45+00:00 August 22nd, 2017|Mailbag|76 Comments
  • The Raven

    This is a great article and I appreciate you going through and summarizing these books. The meaning of the prophet’s names is wonderful. Thank you, Robert. It certainly helps sort things out a good bit!

  • Craig Knight

    Your book opened my eyes to how much the prophets have to say regarding the end times and Christ’s return.
    The WT takes away from the prophets by thinking Christ has already returned. I have been studying the prophets and going book by book and you are right there is so much there about the times we are living in now. Where Zephaniah says ” For then I will change the language of the peoples to a pure language, so that all of them may call on the name of Jehovah, to serve him shoulder to shoulder.’” This means we will all understand and be in agreement spiritually regarding all of Gods purposes. Does it also mean literally that we will all speak Hebrew as Adam did also? So a spiritual and a literal application?

    • Easach L S of Coimbatore

      How do you say in confidence that Adam spoke in Hebrew?

      For then I will change the language of the peoples to a pure language, so that all of them may call on the name of Jehovah, to serve him shoulder to shoulder.

      This of course relates to spiritual which means that everyone knows the truth and worship only Jehovah.

      • The reasoning goes something like this, when God confused the languages of the tower builders their original language was what Noah and his sons spoke, which was likely the original language of Adam and Eve, although it is acknowledged that all languages evolve over time or else become dead languages. It is reasoned further that the ancestral line of Shem, who lived 500 years after the Flood, retained their language when God reprogrammed the tower builders with different tongues. Abram was born shortly after the tower of Babel fiasco. It is thought that when Abram left Ur he continued to speak the original language. There is no way to know for sure though.

      • Craig Knight

        See Roberts comments they are dead on. Here are some scriptures for support.

        The Bible says that before the Flood, all mankind “continued to be of one language and of one set of words.” (Gen. 11:1) The Bible indicates that the language later called Hebrew was that original “one language.” (See below.) This does not mean that all other languages stemmed from and are related to Hebrew but that Hebrew preceded all other languages.
        The Bible is the only historical source giving reliable evidence of the origin of the language that we know as Hebrew. It was, of course, spoken by the Israelite descendants of “Abram the Hebrew” (Ge 14:13), who, in turn, was descended from Noah’s son Shem. (Ge 11:10-26) In view of God’s prophetic blessing on Shem (Ge 9:26), it is reasonable to believe that Shem’s language was not affected when God confused the language of the disapproved people at Babel. (Ge 11:5-9) Shem’s language would remain the same as it had been previously, the “one language” that had existed from Adam onward. (Ge 11:1) This would mean that the language that eventually came to be called Hebrew was the one original tongue of mankind. As stated, secular history knows no other.

  • Easach L S of Coimbatore

    This is more than enough to prove the things even beyond the point. Thanks brother Robert!!

  • Easach L S of Coimbatore

    Are any one taking into consideration this weeks Our Christian life and Ministry. Digging for Spiritual Gems is from Eze chapter:35-38,
    Trick 1 The bible reading is chapter 35 because it is applicable to Christendom.

    Trick 2 See the References for Life and Ministry Meeting Workbook no mention is made on chapter 37

    See page 6 para 8 How This World Will Come to an End? It is a nonsense

    I am going to tell a different answer let me see what the will do?

  • Sharon

    I think the place Jerusalem still will play a big part in bible prophecy,as will the jews,just my opinion

    • Craig Knight

      Sharon Hi! – Well if God rejected the Jews why do you think God would have anything to do with them? They were a stiff necked and rebellious people. God opened up the nations or Gentiles because the Jews rejected and even killed Christ. Earthly Jerusalem now is not in God’s purpose. So please explain to us why you think Jerusalem today has anything to do with GOD???

      • Burt Reynolds

        I rather hoped he would wipe it from the face of the earth. As for the Jews, I always remember that scene in Schindler’s List when they are in the back of a car arguing over money when death and starvation are staring them in the face….a stiff necked people indeed.

        • Beverly kenyon

          Well, I’ve got news for you and Iran. God forgives in a large way and thank goodness you’re not in charge. Huldah in a post a while said, how she had read in an old year book about jw brothers in one concentration camp sold out by taking positions over other brothers by keeping them in line for the SS, even preventing them from praying. So the dark side of ALL people come out in the most darkest and dire of situations!

        • Craig Knight

          You kind of have to feel sorry for them for all the coals they have raked into their own laps by ignoring God. They have suffered so much as a race by disobedience. Schindler’s List was a good movie. It’s hard to imagine even thinking about money when your starving to death.

          • Beverly kenyon

            Hi Craig, the phone rang and it was the forties wanting you & Burt back!

            • Craig Knight

              Ha ha! That’s funny! I was born in 1953 so that doesn’t apply to me 🙂 I don’t understand why you can’t see that we are not anti Semitic. God loves the Jew’s as well as anybody else. But the Jew’s were idolater’s their whole existence and Jehovah had great patience dealing with them. Samaria and eventually Judah itself was destroyed by God in 587/586 bce. Why did God do that? Why did Jerusalem get totally destroyed? I guess Jehovah was pleased with them but decided to have them wiped out for the fun of it. You need to wake up to the facts that the Jew’s disobeyed God and were punished for it. Disobeying Jehovah equals death. A small percentage of Jew’s followed Christ but most did not and still refuse to accept Christ today.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Well stop spouting anti Semitic crap then!

            • Richard Long

              Can we please change the subject?

            • Craig Knight

              Richard – That’s a good idea. I feel like I’m beating a dead horse or maybe an ass aka donkey! 🙂

            • Daisy

              I’m not liking the tone brother. And the fact you get two up votes for your rudeness

            • The Raven

              Well I don’t like the tone exhibited by Bev either, Daisy. Sauce for the goose eh? Where was your admonishment earlier?

            • Daisy

              Sorry I have a life . Where was I… I was probably in my bathroom cleaning up my hubbys ? I get the feeling you are just here to have fun. Sauce for the goose! Pathetic

            • The Raven

              So are your covers, Daisy. It is as plain as day.

            • Daisy

              May Jehovah judge you.

            • The Raven

              Typical reply of a ZIONIST! I have heard that literally thousands of times madam! It has no effect on me.

            • Daisy

              Same as Gods laws written on your heart having no effect

            • The Raven

              That too! I am firm in my faith and no one will get me to falter in favor of a people or group. Especially not the jews. You might snare a rabbit or two in here, but you can forget me ever falling into those traps.

            • Craig Knight

              Ok, I was trying to be funny but Beverly is stubborn and brings no proof of her stand to the table. Jesus could be pretty direct with people too. Hypocrites offspring of vipers! Woe to you! Woe is a curse and when Jesus said woe you better run for the hills.

            • Daisy

              It’s none of your business what Beverly is. Be still. Read who Jesus reeeeally is. Thanks for watching my back….pathetic infantile behaviour

            • The Raven

              Nice there Daisy! Keep it up!

      • Nigel

        Whether the literal earthly city of Jerusalem will figure in the end-times or not, I’m not entirely sure (although I suspect it will, at the very least as a distracting “red-herring”, since Satan is well aware of the importance of the earthly city of Jerusalem to the Jews, the Muslims & most of Christendom and all of their differing end-times prophecies. Remember, Satan deceives the entire earth, not just the JWs.) – but as for the physical descendants of Israel, including the Jews, they have most certainly NOT been altogether “rejected” by God. A reading of Romans 11 makes this perfectly clear.

        Here are some pertinent quotes from Romans 11 (but I actually encourage a reading of the entire chapter):

        “I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? By no means! For I too am an Israelite, of the offspring of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he first recognized.

        So in the same way, at the present time also, there is a remnant according to a choosing through undeserved kindness.

        So I ask, They did not stumble and fall completely, did they? Certainly not! But by their false step, there is salvation to people of the nations, to incite them to jealousy. Now if their false step means riches to the world and their decrease means riches to people of the nations, how much more will their full number mean!

        For if their being cast away means reconciliation for the world, what will the acceptance of them mean but life from the dead?

        You will say, then: “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true! For their lack of faith, they were broken off, but you are standing by faith. Do not be haughty, but be in fear.

        For I do not want you to be unaware of this sacred secret, brothers, so that you do not become wise in your own eyes: A partial dulling of senses has come upon Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in

        True, with respect to the good news, they are enemies for your sakes; but with respect to God’s choosing, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are not things he will regret. For just as you were once disobedient to God but have now been shown mercy because of their disobedience, so also these now have been disobedient with mercy resulting to you, so that they themselves may also now be shown mercy. For God has confined all of them together in disobedience so that he might show all of them mercy.”

        Romans 11:1-2,5,11-12,15,19-20,25,28-32

        • Craig Knight

          The Jews as a people are no longer God’s chosen people but Jehovah still loves all races of course. He loves the Jews as He loves any other of Adam’s offspring and the Jews as individuals have the opportunity to be anointed if God calls them or be of the Great Crowd. Jerusalem today might play a role in end times by starting a world war. The Jewish nation is very political and nationalistic. They certainly don’t look to God’s Kingdom but rely on their own means to survive which was their MO in the past.

          • Richard Long

            We are thinking national identity, while our heavenly Father, through Christ, through Paul has, as Nigel has shown, is thinking about family. Certainly salvation is an inherently individual mercy, but there is this:

            AMOS 3 “Hear this word that Jehovah has spoken concerning you, O people of Israel, concerning the whole family that I brought up out of the land of Egypt:
            2 ‘You alone I have known out of all the families of the earth.+
            That is why I will call you to account for all your errors.+

            It is Christendom and the WT that predispose us to assume accounting for errors equals unilateral and unanimous annihilation in case of the Israelites, but not for Christians, is it not?

            • Old lady brady

              Hi Richard,
              I couldn’t agree more with your post and the scriptures you have provided. For the past few days I couldn’t help but notice the hateful views towards Jewish people on this site. It is refreshing to read unhateful words being levelled towards another race of people, especially when those people are still remembered by god and are looking like they will still be reconciled back to him.

            • Richard Long

              Please don’t give me any credit. I, too, needed to be reminded that I was a scoffer at that particular national group.

            • The Raven

              Hateful or truthful? Tough.

              https://www.occupycorporatism.com/how-christian-zionists-aipac-manipulate-us-foreign-policy/
              “In the 1970s, the book entitled “Union Jack” described how the British Elite would gain control for the behest of the Rothschild Dynasty to pave the way for one world Zionist-controlled government.

              One of the most successful endeavors of propaganda in support of Zionist Israel has been the evangelical/fundamentalist Christian movement.”

            • Daisy

              ‘Jews for Jesus’ is a Messianic Jewish organisation which seeks to share its belief that Jesus is the promised Messiah of the Jewish people, the son of God but the second person of the trinity, died for all humanity, rose again and will return to the earth in the near future. They also believe in heaven and hell.
              They evangelise by handing out literature on the streets, one -on -one Bible studies and on the internet.
              Also ‘Messianic Judaism’ believes that Jesus is the Messiah…with elements of Judaism and Jewish tradition so maybe groups such as just these two will be ready for the calling when Christ returns.

            • The Raven

              http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35747.htm

              http://api.ning.com/files/QowlaVmBdwhUrS8qLKvQKYRLNVDSSwhvS46ydn4I2hk*YeVCZDs80RQVegXeD3J6UhFifUMyuEqogamQ-fFZQYzLJUQFsS1z/hagaish.jpg

              “For 25 almost 26 years now, I have been pounding the evangelical community over television. The Bible is a very pro-Israel book. If a Christian admits ‘I believe the Bible,’ I can make him a pro-Israel supporter or they will have to denounce their faith. So I have the Christians over a barrel, you might say.”

      • Beverly kenyon

        Did you even read Daisy’s post on Romans 11 explaining why God will have lots to do with the Jewish people Craig?? Gentiles are the ‘wild olive’ who were grated in to make the ‘natural branches’ jealous. Hopefully, you’ll take the time to read Nigel’s post to you explaining it beautifully about the ‘natural branches’. Or was the Apostle Paul talking rubbish or was he divinely inspired under HS to write those words?!

        • Craig Knight

          Beverly no I haven’t read Daisy’s post but I would like to. I haven’t seen it. Anyway here’s my take on The Jew’s position with God. God will not have any special relationship with the Jew’s in our time. They rejected Christ as a whole except for very few. I don’t see how anyone can read this and think that God will somehow return to the Jew’s in some special way. Spiritual Jew’s yes but not the literal nation of Israel as we know it today.

          The Jew’s lost out on the heavenly calling unless they repented but most of the Jew’s rejected Christ.

          ROMANS 11

          1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3“Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”a ? 4And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”b 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

          COMMENT:

          God didn’t reject his people! Most of the Jews rejected Christ so that only a remnant were faithful. In Elijah’s day God could only find 7,000 Jews who were faithful to God by not bowing to idols. The rest of the Jews ignored God and worhipped Idols as they did thru their entire history. Paul said in vs 5 At the present time – meaning in Paul’s day there was also a small remnant of Jews who accepted Christ but most of the Jews rejected Christ in Paul’s day.

          —————————————————————————————————-

          7What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8as it is written:

          “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear,
          to this very day.” 9And David says: May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them. 10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.”

          COMMENT:

          Vs 7 The Jew’s for the most part did not obtain approval from God but the Remnant did. God gave them a spirit of stupor just like the Remnant of the WT. Again the Jews were hard hearted.

          Ingrafted Branches

          11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

          13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

          COMMENT:

          Vs 11 The Jew’s sinned so the Gentiles were called Paul was hoping the Jew’s would respond. But most Jew’s did not respond. Paul wanted to save some of them!
          Vs 16 If the root is holy, so are the branches. The arrangemment of the heavenly calling was holy from the roots to the branches but the Jew’s rejected their calling so the Gentiles were grafted in instead but Paul was hoping to wake up some Jew’s.

          ——————————————————————————————————

          17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

          22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

          COMMENT:

          Gentiles were grafted in because of their faith because the Jew’s lacked faith in Christ. Paul warned the Gentiles not to be thinking they were superior or arrogant because they could be removed if not faithful to the end. Jew’s could be grafted in again because of God’s mercy.

          —————————————————————————————————

          All Israel Will Be Saved

          25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

          “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
          27And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

          COMMENT:

          The call from God is irrevocable – God called the Gentiles who were at one time disobedient to be invited to the heavenly calling due to the Jew’s disobedience.

          ­—————————————————————————————————-

          Doxology

          33Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! 34“Who has known the mind of the Lord?
          Or who has been his counselor?” 35“Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them?” 36For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.

          • Beverly kenyon

            That might be what you want Craig but it’s not going to happen.

            • Craig Knight

              Beverly – I don’t know where you are coming from if you are an ex JW or an angry Jewish woman but you have a lot of anger. But your anger must be directed to God because He was the one who rejected the Jew’s because they did not believe. The Jew’s lost God’s favor but that doesn’t mean God does not call Jew’s to be part of the anointed back in Paul’s time or our time today. The Jew’s used their free will to reject Jesus! That’s a Biblical fact. Maybe you should be upset with the Jew’s who rejected Christ and had him crucified.

              Why don’t you enlighten us as to your view of how the Jew’s will have any impact during end times. I have explained the whole chapter of Roman’s 11 to you. All you do is whine. Let’s hear your story.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Well Craig, I’m going to ‘whine’ and tell you I believe what the Bible tells me and I’m going with what is written perfectly clearly in Romans 11. And never you mind what or who I am. The only anger I have is the one I will direct towards you when you come across as a anti Semitic ‘christian’. And you didn’t explain anything to me with your copy & paste explanation…not that I want any explanation from you thanks! And I’m hearing only one person talking out of his…..a… aka donkey! 🙂

            • The Raven
            • Beverly kenyon

              Thanks for your link but if it’s to do with the politics or the political situation in that region, well I have no interest whatsoever in such things but know this I’m not a great supporter of what’s being done people over there. I’m waiting on the Christ to come back in his glory with his Angels to sort out all the evils we see and don’t see. But if I see, hear or read passive aggressive contempt of another race then I will say something because where does it stop, who’ll be the next target?

            • The Raven

              How about the TRUTH! They are no more special than any of us. That’s the bottom line. Anyone that claims otherwise is a liar.

            • Beverly kenyon

              The Hate is spewing out. Good. You let it out. There, there. Go away.

            • The Raven

              You started this Bev and everyone knows it. You been at this for a while now. I simply brought it out after you showed your butt at Craig.
              The last refuge of a scoundrel with an unjustifiable position is personal attacks. You’ve proved to be that in spades. You and several others here.

            • Beverly kenyon

              You started it. Yoy came here with an agenda to suck ones in. It’s very clear seeing your true colours. And what would you know about truth as you’re fake & false with an agenda, a hateful agenda and we know against whom as revealed by your hateful words. You’re a scoundrel as you’re two face, fake & false. Go away.

            • The Raven

              Agenda? Hahaha! That’s rich! It’s you, Nigel, Daisy who have the agenda and you’ve been pounding away at it for a while now. You started off subtly but as of late have gotten very aggressive and confrontational with folks who disagree. I’ve watched this progression here as I have many times before in other forums. There are some here who can see it.

            • The Raven

              Fake and false? More comedy from the one who rails at folks! They have ALL seen that!

            • Craig Knight

              You are just giving me angry opinions not any scriptural proof. If your neck gets stiff just have somebody give you a good neck message!

            • Beverly kenyon

              I gave you scriptural proof. What part of Romans 11 you not getting?? Yeah, and you get someone to massage your ego. Now can I suggest you just doing one thanks.

            • The Raven

              You have done nothing but snap back in the nastiest way to ANYONE who disagrees with you and it’s obvious. You have your supporters who encourage that juvenile behavior and even talk back to those who defend themselves. You and they aren’t fooling anyone here.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Pfftt. Go away!

            • The Raven

              And to tell me to do one is a perfect example of that disgusting attitude!

            • Beverly kenyon

              And your bigotry is disgusting! Go away! I knew all along you were a fake person. False and fake. Go away.

            • The Raven

              You can go away. I stand by my faith and by what Robert has written here. It is several of you who have done nothing but sling mud at everyone who even agrees with him or still agrees with the WTO in some matters.
              First shoving Christendom in and now the jews? Hahaha!

            • The Raven

              Nice work Craig. They’re showing themselves for what they truly are. Ever battle Jewish Zionists? I have. They resort to personal attacks and name calling. The sorry part about all this is CHRISTIANS are worse than they are.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Seriously! What’s a Jewish Zionist? Don’t tell me, I’ll google it! I’m quoting a Bible chapter and you’re getting political, sending me you tube vids about politicians from Israel. Talking like there’s a war going on here between CHRISTIANS and Jewish Zionists?! Are you insane? You and your pal! No, you and your mate are showing your TRUE selves. Don’t start wingeing cos someone is standing up to your bigotry. Please do one and go away!

            • The Raven

              Bigotry or TRUTH? You refuse to accept anyone elses views and resort to stupid jabs and you call others insane? It’s obvious what’s going on in here. You are not only satisfied to sell your own future off you badger others who disagree. Anyone who supports the idea that the jews who HATE Christ and Christians are even considered by God is a ZIONIST. Maybe you should educate yourself about that matter before spouting off at rthose who know these things.

            • Beverly kenyon

              What are you crying for cos it looks like you have supporters for your bigotry as there’s ones on here who’s up voting you and yer mate.

            • The Raven

              Hahaha! That makes you mad? Really???? You people stopped upvoting me as soon as I disagreed with you. You know what? TOUGH!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Don’t know what you mean by ‘you people’. But it would appear you have some supporters here on this blog who share you and your mate’s same ideology. I’m not mad at all. I’m just mad that I was actually nice to you briefly. That’s how fake you were presenting yourself as something you are not! Go away.

            • The Raven

              I don’t care about nice when Im dealing with smooth taking liars! I want truth and so do others here! You have no idea who ANYONE is here do you? But by our words and you and a few others here have shown EXACTLY what you are.

              I will NOT go away. So stop demanding it! Robert owns this site, not you, not Daisy, Not Nigel or anyone else who I agree or disagree with!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Now we know whose in your hateful cross hairs! How revealing. When I’m saying
              Go away it’s saying don’t speak to me. I don’t speak to hateful sly, underhanded bigots. You’ve revealed your true self. See, somehow, a fan of bigotry has upvoted you strait away, so why are you wingeing. I knew you weren’t kosher. I knew you were up to no good on this blog. You’re seething with rage and hate cos someone has seen through you and will stand up to you and yer mate. Here you are mate….do one, take your hate with you as you’re boring me now. Cya!

            • The Raven

              Bigot for telling the truth? LIAR! Its the truth! Keep it up Bev, you prove my point!
              KOSHER??? LOL! Hahaha! Again, you prove my point!

            • Beverly kenyon

              You seriously need to remember reading to take your meds as you’re not right.

            • The Raven

              More evidence that I am correct.

            • Richard Long

              Alternatively, we could all walk away from this subject.

            • Craig Knight

              Yeah I’m done! Some people just don’t get it!

            • Richard Long

              By way of a meant to be neutral suggestion without malice, all topics can be freely explored to whatever scholarly extent one wishes to apply themselves with others of similar interest in the forum Robert has provided. Robert has expressed that the purpose of this blog space is the exploration of and commentary on the current article. Whether some here are of Jewish extraction is secondary to the fact that most are of JW extraction and in a world of hurt because of association with the WT. I can think of no place on earth where discussion of Israelite history or Judaism’s future will not cause severe upset to someone.

            • The Raven

              Commentary and reasonable discourse, yes. But not that outrageous behavior and bullying being displayed recently. AND several of you supported it! Thought it was funny! Not when it’s directed at them apparently, now is it?

      • Sharon

        just take a look at what has happened to them,the nation I mean since the early years since the war,very interesting indeed.and if Jehovah is done with this nation it makes himself a liar,the covenant he made with Abraham becomes null and void.us the gentiles were grafted in to provoke them to jelousy.replacement theology is a dangerous thing.i don’t have all the answers but Jehovah is not done with these people.just my opinion.or as paul would say god forbid

        • Craig Knight

          The Abrahamic covenant IS null and void in case you didn’t know. It’s been replaced by what’s called the new covenant now and it extends to God’s anointed ones and those who worship the true God. Like I asked Beverly how do you think God will use the Jew’s in our time???

    • Marvin W

      Just my views, the modern nation of Israel and Jerusalem will be the False Prophet.

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