Why Jehovah’s Witnesses?

//Why Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Question: While you do make very good and fascinating points, the question I have is the following: Everything in Prophecy (Ezekiel, Isaiah, etc.) you point to the JW’s as per the fulfillment. Is it not possible that these prophecies can also point to say the Adventists, Mormons, Baptists, Christadelphians, etc? How can you be so sure it is only the JW’s they point to? Aren’t all religions misguided and cults?

When Jesus was on earth he promised his disciples that although he was going away he was going to prepare a place for them and one day he would return and take them to their own place in heaven. God’s purpose to unveil a new creation of heavenly immortals is certain to succeed, even as Jesus assured his little flock when he told them to have no fear, that his Father had approved of giving them the Kingdom. This means that when Jesus arrives he will find at least a faithful few who will have won the Father’s approval.

True enough, the vast majority of persons who profess to be followers of Jesus are not really. Jesus himself indicated that the road to destruction is broad and wide and many are those traveling upon it. Whereas, the road to life is narrow and comparatively few will find it. Jesus specifically said that not everyone who calls him “Lord” will be saved —only those doing his Father’s will.

So, first it is a matter of determining what God’s will is, and then using that as a metric to establish who is at least trying to do the Father’s will.

The foremost identifying factor would be that true Christians would be public preachers. Isn’t that one of Jesus’ foremost commands —‘go, and make disciples, teaching them’?

When Jehovah’s Witnesses knock on someone’s door they are never mistaken for an Adventist, Baptist or Christadelphian, are they? And the Mormons don’t really qualify since their young people only do a two-year hitch as missionaries and then they are done. Besides, the book of Mormon is nonsensical —no other way to describe it. The author of the book of Mormon, whoever he may have been, apparently read the old King James and then re-arranged it and added some new characters. It is pure fiction. Anyone who would confuse the Latter Day Saints with Jehovah’s Witnesses is woefully ignorant.

But it is undeniable that public witnessing is what Jehovah’s Witnesses are known for. And over the past 100 years the Watchtower has published their message far and wide, now in hundreds of languages and on every continent. Didn’t Jesus say that the good news would be preached throughout the world as a prelude to the end?

Furthermore, since the Scriptures clearly teach that a great crowd of persons of faith will survive the end of this world, it is surely no coincidence that millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses embrace that hope —the hope of never dying, as a prelude to the coming of Christ and the end. 

When you think about it, the truth is very simple. Jehovah is God. Jesus is his Firstborn Son who left his place in heaven and came to earth and ultimately gave his life. While the Devil rules this world now, originally God intended for humans to live forever in paradise. But sin entered in and ruined everything. The good news is, Jesus’ ransom makes it possible for us to be lifted out of death. And when the Kingdom comes the healing will begin. You could write it on an index card it is so simple. In fact, the Watchtower has become expert in reducing the message to its simplest terms, not only for ease of translation into hundreds of languages, but to reach the marginally literate and those with no education.

No other group has taken Jesus’ commission to “go make disciples” as seriously as Jehovah’s Witnesses —it’s not even close. Surely, that alone identifies them as doing the Father’s will, at least as a whole.

As an anecdote, a JW whom I knew years ago engaged a householder at the door who tried to preach to him. The householder offered my friend some of their church literature, which he refused to accept, saying that he made a special effort to contact them and if they wished to preach to him they would have to come to his house. So, pushing ahead the householder asked for his home address so they could come to his home. He refused to give it to them, saying: “No. I found you. You’ll have to find me.”

Another related factor is the connection with God’s name. While the publishers of most popular Bible translations have sanitized their versions of the Scriptures from any trace of God’s personal name and have sought to confuse the name of God with that of Jesus, Jehovah’s Witnesses have determinedly kept the name of God before the public in hundreds of languages and dialects.

Being intimately connected with Jehovah God places anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses in the position described at Isaiah 43:7, as those who not only call upon the name of Jehovah, but who themselves are called by his name.

Furthermore, because the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses have failed in their obligation to fight for the legal case of thousands of sexually abused children, which the public is very well aware of, Jehovah’s Witnesses have reproached the name of Jehovah in a way that no other religious group can. That is why in the 36th chapter of Ezekiel Jehovah addresses the house of Israel, which is the congregation of the firstborn, saying to them: “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘Not for your sakes am I acting, O house of Israel, but for my holy name, which you profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will certainly sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the nations, which you profaned among them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified among you before their eyes.”’

Since the religionists of Christendom refuse to call God by his proper name and are in no way associated with it, it is they who will have to know he is Jehovah when he sanctifies himself in connection with those who have, regrettably, profaned his name.

As stated already, the truth is simple. The primary obstacle to our knowing the truth is not Satan. It is fallen human nature. The truth is, most people do not wish to know the truth. The reason being, as Jesus explained: “Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.” —John 3:19-21

2017-07-08T08:48:15+00:00 July 8th, 2017|Mailbag|265 Comments
  • I really enjoyed this article. Some of you know me from previous posts I have made. I am a JW, an unbaptised publisher, progressing from being a Bible Student to an unbaptised publisher just 5 months ago. I agree with what Mr King has said here in that it seems that only JWs make a real sincere effort to “go out and preach to all the nations.” Whenever do you see a Catholic or a Baptist, or a Pentecostal, knocking on your door to tell you the Good News about Jesus? Some might, I guess, but most don’t. Now I am not gloating about how great we JWs are, as I am not, and we certainly are not. Again, as Mr King points out, our hierarchy, the Governing Body, have profaned Jehovah’s name by, for example, the awful way in which they handle instances of child abuse within the organisation. They will have to answer to that one day, and by a Power far higher than any of the world’s legal establishments. One of the reasons I became a JW is that they are the only religious organisation that actually makes an effort to go and out do what Jesus commanded us to do, i.e., the preaching work. However, I also believe that JWs are not the only ones who will be saved. We can’t be. Only God truly knows our individual hearts, and only he knows who is truly saved. I believe that the JWs teach a lot of right things, but I also believe that we have got some things horribly wrong. You only have to look at our history of failed prophecies to see that. I also find it very hard to accept the 1914 doctrine, and i also think that our belief that Jesus is the archangel Michael is built on very flimsy evidence. (Sorry, Mr King, I think you’ might disagree with me there). However, I also struggle to believe that Jesus is God. However, one of my biggest struggles with the Watchtower organisation is that there are too many man-made rules and regulations. (Matthew 23:4) comes to mind. Though I have only been an unbaptised publisher for 5 months, I have already fallen foul to two of these rules, which have resulted in my receiving two home visits from elders. 1) My door-to-door ministry, or rather, the lack of it. My hours are as follows: February, 14; March, 4; April, 4; May, 2; June, 2. I really do not like the door-to-door witnessing. I feel as if I am invading somebody’s privacy and private life by knocking on their doors. I hate having “cold callers” knocking on my door uninvited, yet here I am doing the same thing. I have told the elders my feelings on this, and I think they tried to lay the guilt trip on me. “But, you owe it to Jehovah, and you want to please him, don’t you?” I have stated on numerous occasions that I am interested in doing the literature cart ministry, but that has fallen on deaf ears. 2) My hairstyle. This also caused me to receive a home visit form an elder. Apparently, it reflects badly on the organisation, and people on whose doors I knock may judge me, and could cause other brothers and sisters to stumble. Now, just because I have a 10-inch high green mohawk with expletives shaved into the back of my head … well, no, that’s not what my hairstyle is like. If it was I could understand the elder’s bringing it up. No, my hair is shaved on the back and sides, very short, virtually stubble. If anybody is familiar with the hair clipper grades, it’s slightly shorter than a grade zero. On top of my head I have what I can only describe as an island of hair, 1-2 inches long. It spikes up a little at the front, but otherwise lays flat. The big problem seems to be that I have no blend. I removed the blend as I didn’t like it. So, it goes from stubble to island of hair. It’s like the old USMC “high and tight”, except that my hair is not shaved short on top. So, yes, apparently the organisation is worried that my hairstyle might cause others to judge me. So far the only people to have judged me over it, are my fellow JWs.

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi JW , so glad to see you back again and continuing with your journey. That last sentence actually says quite a lot. You cannot judge a book by it’s cover can you. It funny how the WT assumes your hairstyle may cause people to judge you and the organisation and yet, when it comes to the child abuse issue they are already being judged but doing zilch about it.

      • Hi Jamie. Yes it does astound me that they are worried that my hairstyle might bring reproach on the organisation, yet they’ve already done this with their abysmal handling of the child abuse reports.

    • I would like to understand: 5 months after having accept you as a publisher, they are worried about your hairstyle? Why did not they tell you about it before?

      • Cathii D’Anthonii

        It appears to be harder and harder to be productive in door to door in US. There are many ways to reach people other than that. It’s just the KH s way to keep track..when the love is in you the words come out whenever you can..
        This helped me so much with the scriptures for my jw relatives, also the former apostate article , can’t believe how Jehovah provides just when I needed it.
        ( personally , I don’t turn in field service reports anymore )

        • Hi Cathii

          Has any action been taken against you for not turning in report cards? I know that some do telephone or letter writing witnessing, so I wondered, if I did witnessing on the internet, could that be counted on my monthly report? Thank you.

          • Cathii D’Anthonii

            I have never heard of action being taken against anyone for not reporting time..they just won’t consider you an active publisher..In my case it’s a long story..I was in a congregation ,having just moved from the West coast, then I bought a house, but because I am quiet the elders have really not noticed me so much. They sent for my records to the wrong state and lost them..The new congregation tried to get them and couldn’t. They said Let’s start over.and that was the end of reporting…Reporting time, I believe, came from a time when the brothers had to prove a ministry so they wouldn’t be drafted..
            A friend , a dear sister

          • Anderiega

            I don’t report either for conscience reasons. Nor do I tell anybody else to report or not to report. My elders (thankfully!!) leave me alone…. although our local needs last week was on “reporting your Field service” and they quoted the scripture about “not making those taking the lead sigh” as a reason to report. Oh well! I’m sighing too!!

            • I feel one problem with these field reports is that it might make some do as many hours as they can, purely so others can see how devoted they are. Or they feel guilty that they haven’t done as many hours as another brother or sister.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Absolutely true. As a pioneer I was encouraged to start my time before the service meeting so that I could include that time within the meeting….and which by the time ministry was started again, could be a whole hour and a half. Who was I kidding? It was a lie to Jehovah, a falsity to the watchtower and a credit to our elders who basked in the kudos of an ‘active’ congregation. You must wonder about it all. All I can suggest is that you learn as much as you can about the role the watchtower plays in the prophesy. That will strengthen you on the road as you are privileged to be part of it, but at the same time, stick to it here, as this is the balacing weight on the scales.

            • Richard Long

              You nailed it!

            • Richard Long

              We should all probably be doing much reflection on how that census thing worked out for David, and who incited him to do it.

        • Southern ShaSha

          Hi Cathii. Enjoy reading your comments! I agree on the fact we can certainly carry out the ministry in so many ways other than beating on doors. So much has gone down in a negative way within the organization, many are very well informed which from the get go gives many householders a negative view before we have an opportunity to share any messege with them. We all have family, friends, neighbors and an opportunity from time to time with strangers, in conversation which can open the door to speak of Gods Kingdom, especially now with the conditions, chaos and scary tensions world wide. We all so appreciate the relief and hope we have in our relationship with Jehovah and His Son, Christ Jesus, I believe there are many still who will welcome the knowledge of Jehovah under the righteous, just and loving rulership of His Son. The gift of life, given freely to all who come with a loving heart toward the creator of all things, Jehovah God. Makes one wonder how any could or would turn away from the ultimate invitation!!!

          • Southern ShaSha

            We have the truth and we are all commanded to share it with ANY who will listen.

            • Richard Long

              I, too have greatly benefitted from Burt’s fine counsel to seek to really know, understand and grow in love for Jehovah, our perfect and complete parent.

    • Cathii D’Anthonii

      Psalms 119:165 “Abundant peace belongs to those loving your law, and for them there is no stumbling block” May Jehovah continue to bless you…

    • Apple Pi

      This is just an idea, but what if you could find a brother or two who do the literature cart ministry and say, “Hey, if you ever need someone to accompany you, let me know.” Ask Jehovah for guidance, maybe there is a brother or two who would be happy to have you as their literature cart partner. And if that doesn’t work, you may want to consider some blending, even though you don’t like it. Sometimes we have to make some small sacrifices for the greater good. Jehovah will bless your efforts!

      • Hi Apple. A brother once did offer me to accompany him on the cart, but first I had to seek permission from the elder who organises the cart work. He phoned me to deny my request saying that I’ve not had the proper training to be authorised to witness this way.

        • Apple Pi

          I’m banned from the cart witnessing, too, so don’t feel bad. I tell myself that if Jehovah wanted me doing the cart witnessing he would make it happen. He has other plans for me. 😉 There is one sister (from a different congregation) who allows me to accompany her in the streetwork. I use the time partly to witness to her, and partly to witness to the passersby.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Apple pi..Do you really have to have ‘qualifications’ to sit twenty feet from a cart and drink coffee or chat with your companion!!!? Going door to door is far more difficult…you’re on their property, you get them to come to the door, have to be ready for any circumstance…( my brother-in-law was bodily picked up and flung over the garden gate) and have to know how to engage any personality. Not to mention a diverse application of ANY scripture the householder brings up. Cart witnessing, or as I call it, talking to people that first show an interest, is more a reward for your nerves than a productive way of witnessing and takes about all the stress out of it. As usual, it seems it has been mystified, become a privileged reward and something to ‘earn’. It should be open to all as any avenue of witnessing is. I would put the books in a wheelbarrow and take them to town if I was denied a method of preaching. I used to stand at the railway station to catch commuters. Didn’t have a cart for that. Would Jesus have had to qualify for a cart? There seems no end to rules and regulations. Go supermarket carrierbag witnessing JW student!

            • Hi Burt. My sentiments exactly. I like the carts as people can approach you on thier own terms. The problem with knocking on doors is that 1) you’re on another’s property uninvited, and 2) the householder is on the defensive immediately. With the cart, if somebody wants to talk to a JW, or ask a question, of take a piece of literature they can do so without worry of return visits at their home.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I think JW that what you express is a common feeling that has been with us since Christ told his diciples to go and preach. The cart takes no training and no special skill. ( unless you need help with steering it!) It is just used as a privilege and for what reason must lie in the heart of those that make such rules. If it was effective, why is it only for the few? If it is special, then why is it special and reserved for only some? Why is any manner of preaching exclusive when not so many years ago, ‘incidental’ witnessing, was ‘experience’ material and a sign of being always alert to opportunity and love of brother? All very confusing. Our task is simply as it is written…go and make diciples. And our response is simply to make it so. We serve God as ruler, rather than men. Let them have their cart. Wanting it only serves to heighten their self importance, unless like Apple Pi, you have mobility restrictions, but physical disability does not appear to be a loving, qualifying requisite. Sigh….. It puts it into perspective when we think of that wonderfully eloquent opening phrase of the bible…’In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.’ One could perhaps, in context, exchange Word, for Mouthpiece. If that were so, what greater instruction could we have to likewise be a mouthpiece for Jehovah in what ever way?

            • Apple Pi

              Incredibly, yes, they only allow certain publishers to stand by the carts. All I was asking for was permission to accompany the sisters, be a partner. They have strict regulations over who can go to the storage place to get the cart, I guess there’s a key involved. Because I don’t turn in a time slip (conscience matter), I was told by one sister that I’m viewed as being no different than any Muslim or Hindu walking on the street and that the brothers have to draw the line somewhere. I have almost 30 years in as a baptized JW, I guess that doesn’t count for anything. They made a choice to put rules and regulations first. My daughter was incensed at the decision since I have physical limitations that prevent me from going in the door-to-door work. I figure that Jehovah has something better in store for me, so I prepare accordingly.

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s sad that others cannot see your devotion to the truth over thirty years. That is a fine record of service. However, you don’t need a cart to witness on the street. Take along a deck chair and a folding table and lay the literature out on that. The scripture simply says to go therefore and make diciples. Though some went door to door, others, including Jesus, preached whenever and however they could. It’s a pity you don’t live nearby, we could set up in the square in Margate and watch the tide come in! I suppose we would have to hand a time slip in to each other to justify the use of our table!

            • Apple Pi

              I stopped using the literature years ago. I feel so guilty for all of the magazines I placed with people years ago, that were intended to comply with the requirement to propagandize for the UN. And because of all the untruths I taught others from books that are now obsolete. I prefer just to focus on the Bible. I may not get to talk with a lot of people, but I have had some interesting conversations/experiences. One time an old man came up to me, recited a poem in the local language, then asked for money. I was impressed that he ‘gave’ something of himself, instead of just begging, so I gave him 20€. He was flabbergasted, and then recited a much longer poem in English, since he realized I don’t speak the local language. This all led to a conversation which revealed that he had formerly studied with JW’s for a long time. There are some things he doesn’t agree with, namely things we have learned here on Robert’s site that aren’t true, so I was able to agree with him. We had a wonderful conversation and I encouraged him to never give up his search for the truth and to continue to trust in Jehovah and his son, Jesus Christ.

              I bought a bunch of memory sticks and uploaded Robert’s book (including the audio version), and carry them around with me. Last year I was waiting for a train when a young man offered me some kind of invitation. It was to a Christmas party where some organization was going to give out free food to anyone attending. When I told him that I don’t celebrate Christmas, he said, “Neither do I!” That led to quite a lengthy conversation where I found out that he had formerly studied with JW’s, but they quit on him right at the point where he started believing in Jesus. He had an epiphany about the whole thing and as he explained to the JW couple how he came to start believing in Jesus they literally ran away from him and he never saw them again. Come to find out, he also had some things he doesn’t agree with, similar to the man who recited the poem. I was able to agree with him on the things he doesn’t believe. I gave him one of the memory sticks and encouraged him to look up Robert’s site.

              I continue my search for more people who would appreciate learning the truth.

            • The Raven

              This is very nice to read. I have a good sized collection of past literature but rarely dig it out either. I wouldn’t feel so guilty for having been misled about certain matters as have many. That wasn’t your fault as you and countless others took this on faith and I do admire that. The good thing is you’ve been willing to know truth and Jehovah has opened your eyes to it and you continue to present this to others. That shows you do have a concern for others and are not ashamed or afraid to share it. It is getting harder to find people who are interested and more often I also run into many who have had some experience with witnesses, not all of it good. But it gives us a chance to set the matter straight and if thy’re willing it’s even better.
              Keep doing what you’re doing, Apple.

            • Burt Reynolds

              That an encouraging thing to say! It makes me glad to read it. It is not surprising to read that there are many effective ways of witnessing that do not follow the watchtower litany. I can still repeat the set phrases to this day! Good idea to record Roberts book!

            • Richard Long


            • Richard Long

              Many US municipalities require permit’s for ANY activity utilizing appliances or furniture on public sidewalks. It’s complicated.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Well I have to admit that the bible does say the road is narrow. Maybe that is the problem fir the watchtower!

          • Daisy d

            That’s really good advise…or, do what I do, sit on a park bench reading your Bible. Its amazing how many people sit next to you, and when you smile and chit chat it opens up into a good conversation based on God’s word. Try it! It works! 😀

    • Anderiega

      Thank you for being so candid. Many Bethelites have the hairstyle you describe. Tony Morris isn’t happy. Keep serving Jehovah and reading your Bible. You do not have to answer to men regarding your “hours.” We all have different gifts (“different members one body”)…. I’d suspect that hundreds of thousands of JWs would stop going door to door if it was not COMPULSORY. (I personally strongly dislike field service and I was raised a JW and I’m now 37)….but keep praying (as I will to!) for courage and willingness. Thank you for your comment.

    • https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/27d16a2f37679b536fb90520b08fdfd04b229865ca9262618a7da4a26ac89c65.jpg

      KK, so this is my hairstyle, with my phone conveniently hiding my ugly mug to save you all the horror of it. >.< This is what is causing this elder to question whether my hair is suitable for the ministry/organisation. It's our 3-day regional convention starting tomorrow. I'll be interested to see if I get any judgement from the brothers and sisters who will be there from congregations other than mine. b Is y hairstyle really that bad?

      • Joseph

        Over here in the states that’s a very popular cut, especially among the young & military ! Sounds like an elder needs to mind his own business.

      • Thinking

        HAHAHAHAHA!!!! …lol…that just cracked me up….yeah…. it’s bad brother…sorry..lol…but then again I really like dreadlocks…on men…and long hair….so it’s personal taste I’m talking about here…

        • But my hair cut scares old ladies and little kids and so makes me feel tough! 😉

          • Thinking

            Well In all honesty it probably does…so why not let it grow long and it will take the old ladies back to their youthful era of free love and hippy days and then they might soften towards you and listen to some Info that might save their lives ….:) 🙂

            • Suppose you’d like me to take up crochet and bake cakes for the local Scouts Bring ‘n’ Buy sale too, huh? >.<

            • Thinking

              Would that work ???

            • Probably not. I’ll try it though, and I’ll throw in taking up ballet lessons too. You never know, it might make me move more gracefully whilst on the ministry >.<

            • Burt Reynolds

              Careful there sister, if you go much further back than the hippy days, JWs haircut will be in style again. Short back and sides. I grew up with that, plus Brylcream, Oxford brogues with mirror finish, razor creases in my trousers. I did have my aberrations though, like wearing a German trench coat in public. Got told off for that, even though it had two rather neat bullet holes in the back….so I took to wearing an American airforce jacket. Smart.

            • Thinking

              Hahaha…so,true..but I can never get…. those military haircusts are the worst ever…..wow two bullet holes in the back ..you were a rebel hey Burt !!!
              It’s just all the fashion I guess…I still like long hair….gotta have some hair to run your fingers thru…hahaha

          • Burt Reynolds

            In reality JW, it’s clean neat and tidy. It is not outrageous, or threatening, or shows disrespect. The levitical priests were not allowed to cut their hair/beards and it must have been worrying for some sisters to meet them at night on a dark corner. What you are faced with here is one person’s interpretation of social etiquette, I.e., that you need to consider how people see you and what that means to them.

            You have chosen to join a sedate group of people. They need to feel comfortable with your presence. The group has a group mind-set and is under the control in surface matters, of people who exert the group mind-set. To fit in, you must comply, but you are welcome to take your stand, but if you do, you will not be accepted by some or all as an equal. It’s a human thing. My advice…..let it grow, part it in the normal way. Take away the barrier to acceptance. It’s a trifle and doesn’t matter, and in doing do, provides you with a lesson in humility, being all things to all people and is a sign of maturity…..putting away the things of a child. Humbling yourself does not mean you give them, anyone, your aliegence to Jehovah. That is yours and you continue to check out the scriptures for yourself. There is the devide. Your hair style is really of little import either way. At least you have hair.

            • Hi Burt. I really appreciate your reply and advice. However, I will not change my hair style for anybody. Tomorrow I am attending the 3-day “Don’t give up” convention. Looking forward to it as I’ve enjoyed the others I’ve been too. I usually go and mingle and sit with people from other congregations as I like to meet new people. I hope I don’t get negative comments or looks from people there. I’ll look smart in my suit (which isn’t a trendy suit – no “slim fit” styles or anything like that.) I shall be nice and polite to everybody there. I’ll give them no excuse to judge my behaviour. If anybody then decides to judge me on my hairstyle I’ll go sit elsewhere. Members of the public are allowed to attend. Would somebody with a more extreme hairstyle as mine, say a green Mohawk, be turned away? If they wouldn’t turn away or ignore somebody who is not a brother or sister, how can they do so to me, an unbaptised brother?

            • Burt Reynolds

              You go for it! Life is the best teacher. See what happens and have a good time. Do let us know how you get on.

            • Yes. I promise to let you know how it goes.

            • Well, here I am at the convention, day one of three. Bit early but got a nice seat. No idea where other members of my congregation are, but I wanted to mingle with those I’ve not met yet.

              Convention is called “Don’t give up”.

            • Oh noes! It’s all kicking off! The Mormons are here! Come on, brothers, let’s rumble!!! >.<

              Wow, the music video has started. The volume is so loud I can hardly hear myself think.

            • Daisy d

              Hahaha! You ARE a devil for punishment…you make me laugh. Watch out, with your new bok choy soop haircut, you’re not searched for tattoos! Away to go. Enjoy the THEATRE! 😀

            • Burt Reynolds

              Good for you JW. Make new friends and enjoy your time there….and don’t worry about your hair….its hair today, gone tomorrow. Just be yourself and learn about Jehovah.

            • The Raven

              You make a good point about the treatment of new ones and those already involved. You’re right. They wouldn’t turn away a member of the public with a green mohawk. lol!
              It’s a good way to find out who judges a book by their cover and who can see past that to the person. That’s not just JWs but everyone. Have fun!

            • Well, having lunch now. Nobody has stoned me yet >.<

            • The Raven

              Hahaha! I think you’ll be ok, man.

            • I shouldn’t really be on this site at this convention. There are brothers and sisters sat behind me >.<

              I'm enjoying though. Some interesting topics being discussed, including that of the door to door ministry, which I'm not a fan of.

            • A few brothers here with beards. I know beards are not banned, but they are discouraged. Some pretty trendy hairstyles being sported too.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Sounds like you’re having a good time. I’m quite envious of the days I remember being at assemblies. I recall sitting behind one sister, a mother with her her family…..she was writing out a shopping list. You are just looking at the most advanced bible site in the world! Seems okay to me! Turn round and share it with the brother behind you!

            • The Raven

              I know a number of witnesses don’t like that either. There are a few here that really enjoyed it however and learned a great deal from it. It is how I learned the truth. They found me… 🙂

            • Well, end of day one of the here say convention. Really enjoyed it, with some interesting talks given. Not sure what to think of part one of the dramatisation “Remember the wife of Lot”. It’s almost as if it’s wrong to have a job or money. Having a well paid job almost seems to be unscriptural. Wanting to work to feed, clothe and house your family is made to be second place to knocking on doors. Perhaps I’m tired.

            • Richard Long

              Glad you are heading to home or hotel with a pocket full of blessings!

              >insert cynical comment here< You are already thinking clearly and have already surpassed my potential. All I have left for you is encouragement!

            • KB

              If everyone knocked on doors full time, the contributions would be so low, Warwick would never of been built. It’s interesting how the organization gets their points across in subtle ways such as these videos and the drama at the convention. I’m not impressed at their new way of teaching. Satan is the the god of this system and he uses anything possible to accomplish his agenda. He’s trying to get JWs to put their faith into an organization that is doomed. When Jehovah is done with the Watchtower, so many will be left not knowing which way to turn. It seems to me the trend is to build your faith into JW.org and the ” Jehovah’s visible organization” more than Jehovah and Jesus. I keep telling myself they’re just putting ? on a ?. I’m still waiting on Jehovah. As this years theme is “don’t give up”, I’m not planning on giving up on Jehovah and Jesus, but this organization and many of its judgmental members, I’m ready to give em the boot.

            • I found myself disappointed in the many short, 2-3 minute videos that punctuated every talk. Some of them seem to make little sense. For example, one video had a young lad come down from his room to tell mom and dad he was having difficulty studying, in that he didn’t like it. No idea what he was studying, WT literature for the meeting, or homework from school. His dad (or his grandfather, I can’t remember which) told him he’d show him how to study. The two went up to the boy’s room. We didn’t really see how the adult showed the kid how to make study fun, it was explained, but the next thing we saw was that the boy was loving studying, so much so that his parents were stunned that this teenage boy spent so much time in his room studying. The message of the clip was, I think, that study can be fun. I was left thinking that if any if the kids, who were at the convention, was having the same proplem as the kid in the clip, they would still be none the wiser. I certainly wasn’t.

              Another thing I deliberately listened out for: Jesus was not mentioned very much. Jehovah, yes. Jesus? No. In fact the WT society and website was mentioned more than Jesus. I found that a little disturbing.

              I’ve decided not to attend the second day. It’s a long day just sitting there on hard seats watching a large TV screen, as the platform is so far away. How the JW kids and young teenagers, find sitting there for 7 hours, for three days, I’ll never know.

            • Another thing that stunned me was another video. In it a JW was saying that some time ago (he didn’t give a date but I am guessing it was 1975), some people in the organisation were giving up their jobs and even selling their homes in preparation for THE END. This guy explained that he thought something didn’t seem right with this at the time. He is still a JW. But two things confused me with what he said. 1) He said “some” were doing this and he spoke as if it was a rumour spreading amount some in the organisation. However, wasn’t it the GB who taught that 1975 was going to be the end? Didn’t they encourage members to sell their houses in preparation? So why is this guy talking as if it were a rebel few with this notion? 2) If he thought something was wrong with the teaching back then, then wouldn’t he have been looked upon as not being faithful to the GB? He made it sound as if he were being faithful to the organisation by doubting. I am confused here. It’s as if the point of that was to push all blame for the 1975 hysteria away from the organisation, when it was the organisation putting the idea into our minds.

            • Joseph

              It’s called double speak, our as I like to refer to it ” Bullshit”!

            • Burt Reynolds

              You’re not confused JW. You are absolutely right. The GB spread the lie, there was even a talk by Franz as yo what DAY it would come on. So don’t worry. You’re right.

            • But then I feel guilty about having these doubts. Not guilt towards the WTBTS/GB, but towards Jehovah.

            • Burt Reynolds

              You should not feel guilty over feeling bad over watchtower deceptions, but rather be pleased that you notice them. It shows Jehovah is becoming known to you! You have insight. Thousands of those sat about you don’t! Be happy.

            • Is wanting a job that gives you enough money so that you can have a roof over your head, pay your bills and put food in your belly, really “slaving for riches”?

            • Richard Long

              >insert cynical comment<

              That's a rhetorical question, right?

            • KB

              I don’t think it is. Who wants to live week to week, talking about stress, no thanks.

              ‘DO AS I SAY , NOT AS I DO!” Should be the title of next years convention. I don’t see any penny’s being pinched when it came to building Warwick. The big wigs in the organization are certainly not going without. All funded by donations from mostly people who can’t afford luxuries themselves. Many, if not most JWs I know have large sums of credit card debt, with no way out.

            • Joseph
            • Burt Reynolds

              The idea behind it was that further education was not necessary and that just having a plain, menial job sufficient to meet needs was the goal. In my day, just turning up in a new suit was a showy display of wealth. Of course, these teachings were implied by the elders who were already established in well paid jobs….manager of an insurance branch, manager of housing registry, ….who used to love to speak about the presiding overseer of a congregation who was a dustman….not sure what these are called in the states, ….trash cart worker? Thus the more submissive to the elders, the more outwardly humble and self effacing, the more ministry hours, the more repeating what the paragraph said in the watchtower study, and the poorer you were, especially if you had to beg on occasion for financial support, it was true that you got promoted. You did not need to know anything about the bible, just do what the watchtower told you. Thus unless something struck you as bizarre, you never questioned it and if you did question it, where in the bible would you go to prove it…..so you asked the elders who repeated the watchtower! Easy when you know how!

            • So if I worked a 40-hour per week job that paid me a menial amount, which resulted in me laying awake at night wondering how on earth I was going to meet the rent payments, I would be considered more worthy than somebody who works the exact same hours but gets paid three times as much as me? I feel so sorry for teenage JWs who are taking their exams at school, wanting to better themselves by going to further education, to become, say, a lawyer, a doctor, or to qualify in a building trade. Yet being discouraged from doing so by KH elders and even parents, with the threat of disappointing Jehovah. Or with the fear of being “marked”.

            • Richard Long

              Obviously, we know precious little of the actual circumstances of your life and I am hard pressed to even begin advising you in this matter. Please consider it an expression of my love and concern for you that I approach the matter with generalities in the hope that you might find something useful in resolving the matter for yourself.

              In my part of the world, and in the 80’s when I came in, somewhat of a balance was emphasized. American lawyers, doctors, high end sales reps, other professions, etc regularly work 80-100 hours weekly to make the exceptional income, so vocational training for incomes at or above the median on a closer to 40 hr week were recommended so as to allow time in ones life for spiritual pursuit. For those that could manage it, self-employment allowing one to provide well for family AND have a greater measure of control over ones time was actually seen as the ideal in a balanced viewpoint. Of late, the “shaming” of a persons honest work producing an exceptional income is borne from the growing influence of the MOL that has overreached the GB. Leaders are only as good as their advisers, and, as Robert has plainly shown, the enemies of God and humankind now control the WT.

              It might also be noted that, anecdotally, the best paid (honest) professionals are those following a personal calling, doing what they love or are “born” to do, and are adept at mastery of their own time, often toiling less than 40 hrs. weekly. The “secret” being undergoing the self reflection required to discover for ones self what that calling may be. Also, one might consider realizing some success in that pursuit before making to others such solemn promises such as dedication/baptism or marriage. One quickly finds ones such commitments result in “life” and “the world” severely limiting ones choices.

              Your answer to any who might criticize your very personal choice of vocation – one Jehovah has given to you singularly to determine for yourself and pursue – might be this:

              Proverbs 13:22 – “The good person leaves an inheritance to his grandchildren,
              But the sinner’s wealth will be stored up for the righteous one.”

              Followed by the appropriately incredulous question: “pray, tell, brother, how does one provide the means of living for three generations on subsistence wages?

              Of course, this must be balanced with ones spiritual pursuits. Obviously, material abundance for its own sake is a burden rather than a blessing.

              Mathew 16:26 “Really, what good will it do a man if he gains the whole world but loses his life?*+ Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?”

              I think the essential component, as you have indicated, is fear – but perhaps not in the context you might imagine it. The question might be asked, “Do you think that any of Jehovah’s Witnesses, from publisher to GB, actually have any say in the matter?” I promise you that the person of both material and spiritual substance gets to tell the elders just what they will think about him whether they like it or not.. Will wicked men attack you and think they are pleasing God? Absolutely! Robert is the foremost example I personally know in this regard, but I imagine him to be only one of thousands of the true anointed marginalized by the machinations of the MOL. Surely the willful submission of the strong is not of less value to Jehovah than than that of the weak?

              As a follow on, I might recommend some personal correspondence with Joseph, as one you now know personally with a backstory that includes the crossroads you sit at regarding KH culture, secular employment and courageously empowering oneself for an appropriate measure of control in ones own destiny when do do such was to buck the trend. For illumination into the life of one who has, by neglecting to test, know, and prove himself before making lifelong commitments, fallen to the default of wage-slavery so generously provided by the ruler of this world, see me. rlong9000@gmail.com

            • KB

              So here is the direction we received from the organization in the 1960s. Remember, this religion was respected by all and if they said it, you listened to it.

              (How many young lives did this one ruin!)

              “If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things…. all evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years… as a young person you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.

              If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone”!

              So today, if you are a young person going to college, you also have to be a pioneer at the same time or you will be looked down on. There are no rules that say this of course, but thats the way it is. I remember this from an elders meeting we had at the assembly one time. If an elders child went to college and wasn’t a pioneer too, his privileges could be removed.

              It’s amazing how people are willing to let an organization have such a control over there lives, and at the same time not really realizing that they are being controlled by an organization.

            • Joseph

              How many young lives did this one ruin?

              Hundreds of thousands , not to mention the next generation born into poverty .

              Great reminder KB

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yes JW that is basically a correct reflection as I recall it and from what is mentioned here, little has changed. The more hardship endured openly made one more spirituál. However, those that already had education and money and were self fulfilled, thus could take or leave what the elders said, were quickly promoted. It’s simple pecking order stuff really. Having said that, it is good that you can see it for what it is, because ultimately it does not matter and is a stumbling block, and could easily crush your spirit and rob you of the biblical joy. If you stand your ground on bible based teaching and challenge persuasions that are not in the scripture….like your hair… And point to the variety of the individual, work at your job and if you do well, then that is praising Jehovah also. And if you make loads of dosh, then good, share it with those in need. But as the scriptures say, be reasonable in all things, listen to good biblical advice and don’t think that you are always right! No one can stand against the word of jehovah, but you have to know it first! I am personally very happy for you that you have so much insight and be your own man within Jehovah’s arrangement, and have found clarity in the truth. If you can see and understand the spiritual conflict and study your bible well, then you will, I am sure, become a mighty witness within the congregation for the truth about the truth. Perhaps that is your destiny,….so don’t let your youthful indignation spoil it for you….even if you are right!

            • Youthful? Haha. In January I retired from the military after 24 years service. I don’t miss it at all, with the exception of one thing: the money. It was “Rock star wages” >…<

              When I left the military the same elder asked me what my plans were for employment. I told him that when I was a kid one job I always wanted was to be a train driver. I told him perhaps I'd look into that. His reaction was to point out that such a job would involve shift work. I told him that I was aware of that. He then pointed out that working a shift pattern might encroach on my meeting attendance or on my ministry availability. Inwardly I groaned. I am sure the congregation will not pay my bills for me.

              I am so lucky that I have had a full career and earned a military pension whilst not a JW. If I had become a JW as a young boy, pre-teen, I wonder what my situation would be like now.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Wow, you look so young in your picture! Must have been enrolled in the military when you were one! Train driving is good. I would like to do that too…..steam.

            • No. Steam is for girls. REAL MEN like diesels and electrics >.<

            • Burt Reynolds

              Come on JW. Have you not ever seen BigBoy?

            • I regret becoming an unbaptised publisher. Life was so much simpler when I was a Bible Student. I had no obligations then. I can’t see myself getting baptised. Too much pressure to perform and conform once that happens.

            • Richard Long

              You are in the tightest spot I can imagine, conscience wise. I am powerless to provide you with an answer, only understanding.

            • Thinking

              You are doing a very good job…in fact you are very unusual in that you can see the flaws amongst his household yet still see it as his house….personally I think that is remarkable for one so young .
              Why rush this most important decision in your life…allow yourself the time to grow spiritually with out the heavy yoke…..you will know when you are ready and strong enough to get baptized and NOT ALLOW the heavy yoke to be placed on your shoulders…
              So for now …take the good things from his house,,,and enjoy…xx

            • So, I just watched all three episodes of “Remember the Wife of Lot” again, and there were three things that really got me concerned. 1) This is one I have already mentioned but it just seemed to me that wanting to provide for your family by getting a job is considered wrong and unscriptural, and even traitorous against Jehovah. The husband had a job, I don’t believe the wife did. She wanted to get a job but the husband wasn’t happy with the idea. It wasn’t that he didn’t want his wife working as such, it was that she was not putting Jehovah first. In fact that’s all the husband said about everything. It was like a mantra of his. I agree that we do need to consider Jehovah in certain areas of our life, but does Jehovah really need us to look after him to that extent? Is he not big enough to look after himself? He doesn’t need us to babysit him. 2) I was shocked at the husband’s reaction when one friend of his daughter announced that she had been brought up a lesbian couple. The look on his face when he heard this was one of utter horror, but what he did next shocked me. He, without any decorum, told her friend,to her face, that it was wrong, an abomination to Jehovah. Wow! No I am not an advocate of same sex couple raising child, but I wouldn’t say something so blatant to such a child or couple. That was really homophobic. 3) This one hit me the hardest as being wrong: the husband comes home to find about 15-20 members of the family present, his wife having invited them over for a meal and social gathering. Now, none of the family members who were invited were JWs, but they are family. What was the husband’s reaction when his wife told him she had invited them over for a meal? “But they’re not in the truth!” What? So you can’t invite members of your family to your house for a meal because they are not Jehovah’s Witnesses? That is shocking. Does the organisation really expect to have that much control over somebody’s life that they can dictate to you who you have over to your house for a meal? I’m beginning to see this for myself. Last night i did not go to the midweek meeting. I listened in on the KHCONF app. I am not kidding you but within 30 seconds of the meeting finishing an elder phoned me to see why I was not at the meeting. This level of control I am beginning to see here is worrying me. I’m not even baptised yet. What’s it going to be like once I am baptised?

            • Richard Long

              You have just completed hypocrisy 101, my friend. I am having to relearn pursuit of truth as opposed to “the truth”. You get to do it right the first time. Trust me, your way is better!

            • Hi Richard. I do enjoy the meetings and I like associating with the people there, but it’s this control thing that is getting on my nerves. I have done no door to door witnessing this month. My report card will be submitted with zero hours. Can’t wait for the fallout on that one >.< Seriously though, why do they insist on trying to control our lives to the point where they dictate what clothes we wear (even when "off duty". I wore a Sweden football team top the other day; apparently 1) it's showing devotion to something other than Jehovah, and 2) even though "off duty" if somebody saw me wearing it and learned I was a JW, I would stumble that person). They dictate hair style. Are they also dictating who I can and can't invite to my house for a meal? I have a friend travelling down on Sunday to stay with me for 5 days (so I won't be going to the mid-week meeting next week). He's not a JW and doesn't believe in God. Will this be frowned upon? I know that beards are not banned, and I don't wear one, but I know they are not encouraged. (Yet all the pictures we see of angels, Jesus and the prophets of old in JW literature sport beards). I did see some brothers at the convention with beards, including one who had a "designer" beard in that it was shaved down so that it was a thin line, perhaps one inch in height along his jaw line. I bet he gets grief about that. I wanted to approach him and ask him about it, but he's not from my KH and so I didn't know him well enough to go and ask him. Besides, he might have thought I was judging him. Does Jehovah really want the lives of his followers and worshippers to be micro-managed to such a degree? I feel so guilty about questioning the religion, but I can't help doing it. The more I see, the more my eyes get opened to other stuff.

            • Richard Long

              Some of us held the mistaken belief you were much younger and inexperienced than you are. Given what I now know of your life, I believe you do not need me to do more than perhaps tell you that you should believe what your eyes and ears are telling you, as I believe you are seeing things clearly. Other than that, I (we) am here to listen and support.

              Blessings, R

            • Joseph Stephan

              Unfortunately the Watchtower asserts itself more and more over the lives of Jehovah’s Witnesses as that “expert,” in an effort to persuade them to conform to the ideal set before them.


            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello old student! Interesting post you have. Yes, in the eyes of the world they are homophobic. It’s easy to be homophobic, because to the majority, homosexuality is a perversion, so it is not difficult to garner support for it. NOT being homophobic is rather more difficult as it means that one is obliged to extend the hand of reason, arguement, balance and love…..none of which facets the watchtower has. There is room to believe that homosexuality can be genetic in some cases. It can also be a chosen way of deviant life. Anger and depression, psychosis…..can be genetic also. That is why for example, murder can be mitigated somewhat by mental health issues….though I advise against suggesting that to a victims family. Whilst disapproving of such, the bible says that we should be reasonable, though not wavering in our stand. How can we hope to reach out to people, if we shun them before we’ve even spoken to them. That’s my opinion. My daughter was an abuse victim and sought refuge with other women. I’m not going to give up on her. Jesus did not come to help the spiritually healthy, but those sick and laden down with sin. Look at the way lepers were treated, yet Jesus touched and healed. There is a parallel there with treatment of the reviled ( in my conscience. I don’t speak for others) .

              The second point you raise: The same ethic points to family members that are not in the ‘truth’ of the watchtower. Remember the watchtower does control. And your phone call was control masked as shepherding. ( It is also reasonable to forgive the elder for his impertinence in that he may not know the difference).

              As to someone’s wife working…..sad to say, within the watchtower thinking, rather than reasoning, women appear as second class citizens, created as a helper to man, and which many see as a subservient role, rather than just respect as Jehovah indicated, in terms of equality. Not to be confused with roles within the family, and within the worship of Jehovah. Roles are not an indicator of inequality. The watchtower example that you cannot have two rudders for a ship, is rather good. But in my family, my wife is a whole lot better at steering and I am a better oarsman. But then she scrubs the decks, but I am the ships carpenter and repair man. The psychology behind the watchtower is to promote Jehovah’s interests, or be seen too. The education and welfare of children is without doubt secondary, as is inforced penury, to being seen to serve Jehovah. They can afford to tell others to go without, as they have all that they need and more, paid for by contributions. The whole set-up of earning, money, contributions, control and living conditions is so contradictory in the watchtower that it is not possible to explain it in any other way, than to say it comes from those who have never had to manage it themselves independently, and for food. I generalise.

              If you follow what Jehovah says in the bible and keep an open independant, scripturally based mind, being an oasis of truth within the watchtower dessert, you can help others wandering about there with the waters of life.

            • Another phone call from the elder. Didn’t answer it this time. If he wants to speak to me he can do so on a Sunday at the KH. I know he’ll come to my house between now and then. This reminds me of something that happened when I was a mere Bible Student, and thinking about it on hindsight this should have raised alarm bells. But once he knocked on my door on an unannounced visit (which I hate – I even prefer my best friend to call first), and on getting no answer, as I was out, he actually stood on my doorstep as he phoned me. I know this as because was unable to answer the call, he sent me a text stating that he was outside my house. Honestly I feel that I have to justify my whereabouts to him.

            • KB

              He’s following the direction of the organization to a tee. The elders are told to shepherd the flock weekly if they see someone missing or taking a false step. You missed a few days of the convention and the following meeting. He noticed so he is following up on it. You seem to have elders that are by the book and are very concerned about the flock. The organization is instructing the brothers and sisters subconsciously and out right boldly at times in the dramas and videos. Now, everyone believes family dinners with unbelieving family is wrong. You’re not supposed to feel like the elder checking on you is weird, but it’s very loving. It’s their way of gaining control over you. On the other hand some elders choose to shepherd weakly. That one little letter change makes a big difference in the meaning of the word. Luckily for me. My brothers shepherd weakly, so I don’t have to deal with much BS from them. Actually I’ve been told they are down right scared of me, and they are not sure what I’m capable of if I get pissed off, so they keep their distance. Lol, you gotta keep em guessing.

            • Richard Long

              Almost sounds like he’s working on commission, but I’ll go the benefit of the doubt and say he is taking a personal interest in your salvation, for better or worse.

            • Joseph

              So many people have given up and that number will increase ten fold soon. That’s why there’s a push to baptize the young, to keep the numbers up. The theme should read ” Don’t give up, our livelihood depends on you “. ( it just wouldn’t fit on the name tags so they shortened it)

            • Thinking

              Oh no…not you too….try to remember the worse it gets the closer we are to our relief….soon brother it will all be over…..hey I’m still there….you can come and sit by me if it would help any….your presence and continuing persistence would sure strengthen me…as I too am weary….xx

            • KB

              We are all weary I’m sure. I would love to sit by you, what an encouragement that would be. Just like to vent sometimes I guess. Glad someone is listening.

      • KB

        I saw an attendant at my convention with a similar hair cut. He had more hair on the sides but it was all business on top. The body of elders really hold all the cards in each congregation. Regardless of the direction of the slave, if the body of elders don’t like the way you choose to groom yourself, you won’t have privileges in the congregation until you submit to their way of thinking. I for one think it’s funny, they base their thinking on mans thoughts not the Bibles view.

  • Nigel

    “The foremost identifying factor would be that true Christians would be public preachers.”

    “By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.” John 13:35

    • If done with the right motive teaching someone the truth is an expression of love of neighbor.

      • Nigel


    • And don’t overlook the fact that Jesus said “love among yourselves.” That would rule out believers being scattered about in various denominations and sects.

      • Paulo Vicentini

        “If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?” – Matthew 5:46

        • The Raven

          We all know that Christ said we should also love our enemies. The preaching work of the JWs is evidence of their love of God and their fellow man. Robert’s comment IMO is speaking to the fact that Christendom and it’s numerous sects and denominations is not where a true believer of Jehovah will be found after he learns the basic truths. It is also an example of the love Christ showed them as His followers and also exhorted them to stick together.

          • Paulo Vicentini

            Matthew 23:15
            “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you travel over sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him a subject for Ge·henʹna* twice as much so as yourselves.””

            JW’s Preaching work is NOT evidence of Love.
            Love does not demand REPORTS…

            On the other hand, JWs HATE their enemies, for instance, the ones they call apostates…

            Basic truth is BIAS…Who define the “basic truth”.
            You believe in the Paradise (basic truth???) but hate your enemies…. what reward will you get?

            • The Raven

              Love is what Christ said we should have for everyone. That is clear. Preaching the truth to the world is evidence of love for humanity. What the org does as far as reports, etc is a different matter. On that it is clear Jehovah will set many matters straight with His house. In fact judgement begins with them.
              And where did I say I hate my enemies? Are you parroting the wto literature here? Because I’m not understanding how you are equating preaching that Jehovah is God, Jesus Christ his son and the holy spirit his force as being anything but basic truth. Christendom cannot even get those few truths correct.
              Can you understand that the org is under a deluding influence but not all witnesses are? That’s what Robert has been writing about for decades now.

            • JW’s don’t make the rules. They follow them. To imply that the millions of publishers and pioneers are like hypocritical Pharisees because the submit to the Wt and follow its direction indicates you do not have a sound mind.

            • Paulo Vicentini

              “Jehovah’s witnesses do not make the rules”


              An individual’s Personal Responsibility to choose Right Action over Wrong Action for themselves is ALWAYS THEIR OWN.
              An individual is always responsible for his own actions.

              The man said: “The woman (“organization”) whom you gave to be with me, she gave me [rotten] fruit from the tree, so I ate.” – Genesis 3:12

              JWs, as an ORGANIZATION (Group), are hypocrites. Does it sound mind to you?

              And If you decide to be part of the ORGANIZATION, by default you will inherit its “qualities”.

            • And so according to you, following the WT’s program to take up Christ’s commission to preach and teach makes Jehovah’s Witnesses hypocrites? Obviously, the state of being mentally diseased is a very real condition.

            • Vasilios Agio

              I understand how u feel about this persons remarks brother Robert . May I say that it’s best to let people have there say , let’ us teach people with love . Let us be as Christ , if we push people away then we are not showing Christ like qualities . With good we win over what is evil . If they choose not to listen or learn then let Jehovah make judgement upon them . Let us not just talk about love but may we show true love and long suffering . Peoples comments are based upon there own wisdom , let us teach people from all walks of life with perseverance and mildness . Thx

            • I allow persons to have their say to a point. But I already knew Paulos from years back. He has an agenda. I don’t owe him a platform here. Besides, if he wishes he can read and maybe learn something. I can tell you from years of doing this, without moderation there can be no online community. It would be torn apart. I think that’s what some people want. Personally, I can do without it. But I provide it because some people rely upon it to connect with others.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Thank you. It’s the only association with the brothers that some of us have, even to the point of not forsaking the gathering of each other together. It certainly is a lifeline to me. I think without that association, your site would not be so alive with the spirit, and the clarity and appreciation of understanding would deminish through lack of conversation. Perhaps that is the very meaning of the scripture that encourages meeting together. Peremino seems to lack that quality unfortunately though there is sound truth there. As already noted, your production exceeds that of the watchtower but the truth here exceeds even that and others can and do share in that. It seems to me that this is possibly the only beacon of light. If it is not, then I am at a loss as to where to go.

            • The Raven

              “It seems to me that this is possibly the only beacon of light. If it is not, then I am at a loss as to where to go.”

              Exactly, Burt.

            • Richard Long


            • The Raven

              I realize it can be troublesome to keep up with this and I appreciate your doing it for the sake of all those who wish to learn and socialize with folks. Although we here do not all agree on everything we can at least discuss these issues in a fairly civil venue. Were it not for moderation this place would devolve and that would be a great loss IMO. Thank you for considering us.

            • Vasilios Agio

              I understand brother Robert . U and the other brothers and sisters have made some good notable points . The teaching of the truth about the truth is a jewel and we mustn’t be throwing precious words to those who wish to entertain themselves in this way . I only made this point because I feel that Jesus never gave up on anyone and I know Jehovah does not want to lose not one soul but as u say , u are aware of his history and Inow that I have been made aware of this I now feel u have handked this matter with justice and wisdom and I am with you .

            • The Raven

              How do you teach someone who will not listen? He is an ex jw who hates witnesses. He trolls a number of sites but never learns anything from them. Look him up. Robert is very familiar with him. At some point you have to say enough. I know how you feel Vasilios, but there are people you cannot reach.

            • Craig
            • The Raven

              LOL! That was a good film!

            • Vasilios Agio

              Thank you brother , I wasn’t aware of his previous history and Since it had been made known to me I am most certain that brother Robert has dealt with him accordingly , this is brother Roberts site and and he has every right to exercise the right for it to be respected .

            • Thinking

              I wish it was a simple as that Vassilos..but it’s simply not…nor is it scriptural…Robert is a Jehovah’s Witness…a brother. And an invited one…
              He was an elder once…he was removed from that position by men…but in Jehovah’s eyes he still has the responsibility as such…
              Those that come here..are here because they are hurt or been hurt…they are damaged…their faith has been shaken…stumbled…some are so weary and tired and confused ..even their faith in a creator has been put at risk…
              Any Shepard worth his salt…will guard those sheep…from any further spiritual damage….
              True love also means being strong when there is a need…being firm..when there is a need….
              One cannot simply let everyone who comes here have their say…and just let them stay…
              You will have A mess for sure..and wolves in sheeps clothing will settle very comfortably….here …and then what will happen to the poor battered sheep…

              Yes we must teach people from all walks of life with perserveremce and love

            • Vasilios Agio

              Thank you for your thoughts on this matter brother . I can only hope that my comment or maybe I should say my being in this mans defence has made anyone feel as tho I was chastising brother Robert . Im not in a position to do such a thing and further more i wouldn’t do that as I would not take sides , I clearly made a comment with the thought that Jehovah doesn’t give up on anyone but it’s been made known to me about this mans past behaviour and I think brother Robert is very correct in his handling of this man and this site and What u say carries much weight brother . Thank you .

            • Thinking

              No worries my brother ..by the way..not that it’s important…but I’m a sis….sure hope I dont look. Like a brother. ….hahah

            • Vasilios Agio

              Hahaha so sorry sister , I’m getting all confused , no need to worrying as I can assure u , u do look very much like a woman .

            • Thinking

              I think you are Australian ..no…?..me too..one day we will meet up ..when we trust each other ..:)

            • Richard Long

              may you both soon be “Paradisian”!

            • Vasilios Agio

              Yup I’m an ozzy , Greek parents . I hope we do meet up one day , that be greatcoat thx SISTER !!

            • Huldah

              Lol Vasilios
              I’ve been keeping count and you’re the third to mistake Thinking for a brother.
              Funny, I don’t think her writing comes off as masculine.
              Maybe its the name.
              She always takes it in stride, but it gave me a laugh anyway..?

            • Vasilios Agio

              Lol too true sister . It was the name that threw me .

            • Richard Long

              So very pleased to hear your voice again Thinking. You were missed!

            • Thinking

              What???? You missed my big mouth,.hahahah…thanks brother xx

            • Richard Long

              Big mouth AND big heart!

            • Daisy d

              Over a year, Paulo has made 12 comments here…x

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s a good point….but where to draw the line. Thankfully that’s not part of my job description….hmm good pun that…JOB description. He would have liked that. I had better put that in the Book of Burt.

            • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

              What you said is right answers, because any answers outside from WTS even if it is Biblicaly correct is not encouraged, that is the Pharisaical spirit.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I can understand why you say what you do. On the surface it does look as though many witnesses take a pride in how many hours they do and recording it gets them a good standing in the congregation. So too, do they oft despise those that appear to be apostate and they are quick to judge them. Ask anyone here! What you say reflects the general opinion of many. When faced with the same impression, and the behaviours we see form many witnesses, I found it very difficult to see any love between them, in fact, I still search in vain for just a glimmer and the few that I found, seem to be here!

              However, what I thought, even though as plainly evidenced on the surface as you relate, is and was not correct. What is not taken into account here, is the long term conditioning of the mind and the control that this has over the mind and analysis, not to mention the emotive inferences that such implies, along with a (generally) false set of values brought about by an unlooked for and unseen deceit in the teaching given them. This is why the bible tells us to look out that we are NOT decieved. As Robert points out, Jehovah’s witnesses do not make the rules, the rules are gently nursed into their thought and behavioural patterning. It is an insidious process, brought about by a multiplicity of motives, some very harmful, some not intended to be harmful, some borne out of love and concern. Thankfully, we do not have to concern ourselves over these issues -that is Jehovah’s area of concern.

              I also keep to the forefront of my mind that I was one of those people, and I would not have counted myself as a hypocritical pharasee, though clearly I was hypocritical, jealous, and at times spiteful to my brothers. In fact, if one wanted to learn about backbiting and power struggles, our congregation was a prime example. So I had good teachers…sadly, not that I always needed them!

              But the thruth of the matter is that Jehovah’s purpose runs concurrently with these things. People are being sifted out and you would have to admit that if there were no good people in there, then why is there a need to sort the wheat from the chaff?

              As to the basic truth being biased: how can it possibly be so? Something basic by its very nature, is not convoluted enough to be biased or full of lies. The basic truth is made up of the ‘Lord’s Prayer’ as it is known. What can possibly be biased about that? However, the truth is only open to those seeking it. That is why the basics are so easy to see….ergo, Jehovah, his kingdom, in heaven, on earth, praise his name, pray for his kingdom to be established here, as in heaven, forgive our sins, feed us, love and forgive our fellow man. How can that be misconstrued?

              Your mind is no more unsound than mine in this topic…I hope that’s not a slur on you! Never mind: the point is that you see the fault in the watchtower and the paradox that it is Jehovah’s servant. If I may, why not stick around and discuss the issue and come to a balance on it, just as we have all done. Your concerns will melt away and reason will prevail. But it’s up to you.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              I enjoyed going door to door, and met alot of interesting people..learned from a goat farmer that cows milk was never mentioned in the Bible to drink..

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hmmm, makes the promised land flowing with goats milk and honey a little less attractive! I like some goats cheese, especially when stuffed in a sweet pepper, preserved in olive oil, but goats milk….I tried it once straight from the goat….never again. Whereas cows milk with honey, that really did flavour the scripture for me! I could actually see the land with that taste! And it was the first time that the scriptures were actually physically illustrated to me. It’s stuck with me all my life!

            • Richard Long

              Burt, it would take a hard heart to be unmoved by the loving, sound reason of this post. This is where we become Christ’s helpers in concerted association with Robert, and you are the finest among us.

            • The Raven

              Indeed! But Paulos never replied to him. I doubt he even read it.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Burt Reynolds said to Paulo Vicentini • 2 days ago
              I can understand why you say what you do. On the surface it does look as though many witnesses take a pride in how many hours they do and recording it gets them a good standing in the congregation.

              More food for thought

              For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires,
              they will
              (surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.)

              They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories. You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry Timothy 4:3-5.

            • Daisy

              We are all “mentally diseased apostates” here according to the those loving “teaching someone the truth”…all ” pests to be exterminated ” when we don’t follow the wt rules so I hope any remarks alluding to your mental state has the same effect as water off a duck’s back.
              Advise if you don’t mind P, put IMO before you post. It might protect you from unkind words directed your way? Love Daisy

            • The thing is, lots of people are blinded by their hatred of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Jehovah that it is like an obsession. I don’t give them much room to operate here. Sorry of that offends you.

            • Daisy

              No no no…not offended in the least…think you know a little about my life to know that I’m as tough as old boots!
              Also as thick as two short planks cos I didn’t pick up on hatred nor obsession…but then…you probably know P more than I.
              Keep calm and drink tea (with battenburg). Whoah there! Love you.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I think Robert is right in many respects. Running a site like this must be a bit like running a guest house. Some people you just don’t want back and if you let them stay, the guest you do want won’t visit. I personally don’t have that skill, or the trust in myself to make that decision unless it’s as clear as our resident multiple personality chap. It is written that Jehovah will judge ultimately, but the demand to keep the house clean is also a part of that. Whether this takes into account the potential a person has to change, is beyond our power to know. Thus I for one, do not concern myself in that matter, but seek to leave the door open to whatever I can give and in what value that may be. But for those charged with responsibility, perhaps they have more insight that is given with that responsibility. Maybe that is why we have Battenburgh given us, and they have Dundee Cake, just as the scriptures say, but in different wording.

            • Daisy

              Maybe you could change your name to VOR…voice of reason …cos your words are consolingly comforting!
              May I just say that I have no opinion as to how Robert controls his website commenters…I just think the name calling is totally unnecessary. That’s all! I’m neither “disturbed” nor “mad” about anything other than that.
              What is disturbing for me is getting a call in the night from my psychotic boy, crying that he’s close to “topping himself”. That’s disturbing! My solar plexus shoots away from my body every time I hear his desperate words.
              Its lunchtime so I have this break to comment and frustratingly I’ll wait for another break in my busy day to catch up with all I need to here.
              Many thanks for being with us all Burt. You are dearly loved and appreciated, its been said so many times….in so many different ways…:D

            • Hi Daisy. I did not resort to name calling. I called into question a person’s soundness of mind. There’s a difference.

              Sorry to hear your dealing with such a distressing situation.

            • The Raven

              He basically called me a hypocrite and a pharisee without even knowing jack about me. My comment did not warrant that sort of retort from him. But you didn’t see that?
              Had he replied to anyone else that way I would have confronted him over it. Questioning his state of mind given that nasty reply was warranted as far as I’m concerned. He made that even more obvious when he also questioned basic truths.
              And his “friend” was no better.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Ha ha! Did he really call you that!? That’s quite an honour. If it was me, my retort would have been…’if you really knew me you would be ashamed of your verbal lack of repitiore, for I am far, far worse than a superficial hypocritical Pharisee. Perhaps you are in a position to advise?’ But I think it would be a waste of a barb. Lucky you. I’m quite jealous. Not only that but Richard has not even sent me a postcard from his cruise! I’m mortified.

            • The Raven

              All joking aside, it would have been a waste of time to engage him after that point. He dug his own pit. I don’t mind the barbs, as you know I can give as good as I get but it does not sit well with me when others defend jackasses like that after they have attacked others. I am well aware of folks like him and I agree with Robert after researching him he has an agenda. I don’t even want to get into that aspect of his thoughts.
              Richard is in hog heaven right now! Wish I was able to even get out on the bay around here, but work has me bogged down real bad right now. It sucks watching all these happy, sunburned tourists enjoying themselves. Haha! Maybe in a few weeks I can join them.

            • Richard Long

              I’ma happy lobster looking fool for sure, and I still don’t have to remember where I Work till Monday ?

            • The Raven

              Hahaha! I’m glad you had a good time, bro. 🙂

            • Richard Long

              The time with my girls, priceless!

            • Richard Long

              You get the photo album via email when we get home ?

            • Burt Reynolds

              Wonderful. Thank you. I shall treasure it.

            • Richard Long

              Ha! And you not even a properly indoctrinated and ceremonially cleansed hypocritical Pharasee!

              Some people!

            • The Raven

              Yeah. No kiddin. (grin)

            • Paulo Vicentini

              “I don’t give them much room to operate here.“
              Indeed, You don’t give them love whatsoever.

              I am just proving my point here that JWs hate their enemies while still blindly
              boasting of being saved by knocking on a certain number of doors each week…

              You are making disciples of WT followers.
              A disciple of WT is unable to obey the following commission:
              “But I say to you who are listening: Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you.” – Luke 6:27

            • In writing to Titus the apostle Paul noted that the people of Crete were notorious liars and beasts and he said that many were profitless talkers and deceivers and it was necessary to shut their mouths. Did Paul coddle the enemies of truth? I say your time here is done. Goodbye.

            • Preaching that Jehovah is God, Jesus Christ his son and the holy spirit – That won’t make you a son of the Most High.

              Let me tell you what it will:

              On the contrary, continue to love your enemies and to do good and to lend without hoping for anything back; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind toward the unthankful and wicked. – Luke 6:35

              Hating enemies (as JWs do) is even worse than 1914 delusion. Reveals lack of Love. Lack of God. No one can be anointed or continue as one without Love (towards enemies).

            • I’ll pray for you dude.

            • Daisy

              Hope you pray for all of us here first Robert!
              This is becoming like a madhouse…very disconcerting and unsettling I must say IMO …and I’m not being sarcastic…I’m feeling quite upset before I go to bed so, very much in need of prayers. Thankyou
              Truly, Daisy

            • I am sorry you are disturbed, Daisy. You should know that there are many, many people who have no love of God or truth. The problem is, though, I run a website that allows comments from everyone. I try to be liberal and and all that, but it really doesn’t work.

            • The Raven

              I went to Paulos blog and his comments show he is led by a “star” which tells him things. Your guess is as good as mine as to what that is. He is a rabid ex JW who despises all witnesses. He claims all jws are hateful hypocrites and all of them hate their enemies. This is stupid. Now this one spouting the same claptrap.

            • I know. Paulo has been lurking around e-w for years. He is an enemy for sure.

            • The Raven

              Aha. It doesn’t surprise me folks like that do what they do. I once commented that many who left not only lost their faith, but their minds as well. Oh well.

            • Daisy

              Wt, October 1, 1952 pips 596 to 604.

              “Haters of God and his people (Jws) are to be hated, but this does not mean that we will take any opportunity of bringing physical hurt to them in a spirit of malice or spite, for both malice and spite belong to the Devil, whereas pure hatred does not. We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on His beautiful earth. The earth will be rid of the wicked and we shall not need to lift a finger to cause physical harm to come to them, for a God will attend to that, but we must have a proper perspective of these enemies. His name signifies recompense to His enemies”

              Matt 5:44
              Luke 6:27
              Luke 6:35

            • The Raven

              Even though the wt states these things do all witnesses actually feel that way? You know that’s not true. Especially those here. And why wouldn’t he see that? Why wouldn’t he realize that a generalization like that only serves to distance and divide, not unite. And why do you feel the need to post that to me? He knew full well that claiming ALL JWs are hateful hypocrites was wrong.

            • I don’t know what the deal is. I hate liars, hypocrites and enemies of the truth. Don’t you? They are my enemies. Aren’t they yours? That includes those who are JW’s and otherwise. But obviously we do not take vengeance upon them. Jehovah will exact vengeance. We hope they repent before that awful day.

            • The Raven

              I have no idea what she’s mad about. But I agree with you Robert. Apparently she does not.

            • The Raven

              To be honest Robert, I still don’t understand why some folks are given to allowing others to do stuff like that and then go after those who see it for what it is. I am tempered by the fact that Jehovah will set it all straight but frankly trying to avoid everyone’s sensitivities in these matters is daunting. You’re right. I wish they would repent but I am a realist like you and when folks attack like that one did, out of ignorance or whatever, I do NOT like it at all. I agree with you there. Even if it means being ostracized for doing so.

            • Joseph

              You oppose the deceivers who try to prey upon truth-seekers. And you do a outstanding job of keeping your message free of their vomit .
              I personally thank you!

            • Richard Long

              Robert, speaking for myself, hate – proper hate – is just as foreign as trust. I might go so far as to say that such an internal conflict is only rivaled by my lack of real understanding regarding Godly love. Some of us (me) arrive here on such unsure footing we are literally a danger to ourselves. Some live our whole lives not even reaching that realization. I don’t see where it is your responsibility to help with that, but somehow you do.

              Maybe it is association. A person has to consider himself (at least trying) to be in association with you, and by extension Christ, in order to benefit?

              It is probably the most selfish of motives, but I have always sought to know the annointed, assuming the faithful to be a composite of a more worthy model, having been unable to put no faith whatsoever in the behaviors, attitudes, etc., modeled in my childhood homes.

              There’s no point here, just stating the obvious that your “dragnet” is quite predictably pulling up plenty of us “bottom” fish.

            • The Raven

              I’m sorry you’re mad about this but it’s not my doing, Daisy. It was ALL his. I backed off in the hope that he would engage someone in a civil discussion but he never replied to you or Burt either. He only attacked and went after Robert. After that, well, what else was there to do? I was curious about his background and found out what his motivation was. I wasn’t aware he’s been hanging around here for years. News to me. But hey I cannot and will not ever call ALL jws a bunch of hateful lying hypocrites pharisees and scribes. We all know what’s coming down the pike for everyone who calls their self His.
              But I certainly won’t gun for them. I am not a judge. He thinks he is. He also thinks the basic truths are subjective.

            • Richard Long

              So… an opposer AND a slanderer? Hmmm?….

            • The Raven

              Robert knows this fellow better than I do. What I found on him wasn’t good.

            • The Raven

              To make matters worse, no sooner did the first one get banned another one showed up spouting the same stuff. He got the boot too.

            • Richard Long

              People don’t seem to get the basic truth that just about everywhere one goes on the web is private property, hence the nomenclature: “DOMAIN NAME”! If this space is an extension of Robert’s home, common sense says Robert’s guests enjoying repast there will have a low tolerance for disturbers of the peace. Having to exorcise a hard-headed blockhead occasionally seems to be our honor and duty to our host who is busy preparing our refreshment.

            • Marisa Gomez

              You are so cracy,,,,we dont hate anybody. In fact we’re not enemies of the people. Some people hate us because Christ.

            • Burt Reynolds

              That is of course true, but the one seeking truth has to overcome these very things. If you show up at the door berating and angry, the first reaction is to shut the door. If instead you come knocking and ask for water, (explanation), being thirsty, then it will be given you and in no small measure. First make peace. Do you think that we are all perfect here? Think again. Of course there are similarities, differences, insight, no sight, little sight. You, as well as all here, have to allow ourselves to listen long enough to see the outline. There is nothing to be gained by throwing bible truths at each other because they apply equally to all of us, do they not? And, in the same measure. You may like to ask your question and listen to the answers, be it from the scripture or experience, and this will show you the balance. The finer detail will be given you in time, as it is for all of us. And all of us have been where you are. Not all of us are ex-JWs either and so you will have to ask yourself, why they are here. You clearly know the scripture. All you need now is to grasp why you are still interested enough to argue about it. Jehovah will bless you in your search if you are searching for him.

            • The Raven

              In my town the Pentecostals stand at the major intersections every once in a while and scream at and harass motorists stopped at the lights.
              “You’re going to hell! You’re all going to burn forever! You’re all Hypocrites! We are going to be raptured and you’re going to be left behind! You are the devil’s sons! Your makeup and clothes are of the devil!” your fancy suit is of the devil! , and on and on until the lights change and a new crop of hapless folks are stuck there counting down the minutes.
              Most folks roll up their windows. Some flip them off and laugh at them. Others like me, tried to engage them but still wound up being screamed at and attracting even more of them at my truck. They especially hate JWs. What is the result of their efforts? People avoid them like the plague and even the police had to ask them to stop chasing cars once the lights changed and wound up pulling them out of the intersection because they would not listen. They screamed at them too.

            • I used to have a lot of encounters with Pentacostals. They are like Christendom’s version of radical Wahhabis. I dubbed them “Penta-hostiles”

            • The Raven

              LOL! They sure are.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Wow! Is it that bad in the USA? I have not seen that here. We do suffer from an excess of happy-clappers but in my experience, that’s as far as it goes and they seem to confine themselves to their church and get on down there. There seems to be far more interest in the gay pride marches in this country. I’m not sure which is worse. Generally in England the all encompassing apathy towards politics and religion is our only saving grace and people can do as they want, except protest and strike now. The latest eyebrow raiser
              ( well, for me at any rate), is the Church of England synod spending several weeks debating the introduction into the liturgy repertoire of a ‘welcome service’ for people going through sexual reassignment, or transitioning as its called. As I say to people, it does not really matter what they do as the church is a total irrelevance to the bible. Oddly, that thought is never opposed. You would think that the Pentecostals at the traffic lights would combine their preaching with windshield cleaning and earn as they preach….clean as you preach as you go service. ( then they could put a bumper sticker on the windshield that says, ‘ I was saved at the crossroads’).

            • The Raven

              That has me rolling! Now THAT would be a more productive way to accomplish their mission to “save us all from hellfire”. They wear camo pants and black t shirts which makes drivers even more worried. Yes. They are that bad and some “christian” churches are even worse like the Westboro Kansas Baptist church. Those folks just about cause riots at the funerals of fallen soldiers and anyone who they think is in hell for whatever reasons they pull up. People have even been protesting them with signs parodying theirs. Google westboro baptist church and go to images. You’ll get a laugh out of that. I can’t post that stuff here.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Will do!

            • Burt Reynolds

              I’ve just looked! I have never seen the like of that. How sad. Such a superficial scriptural understanding they have it beggars belief that they have not one wit of insight to see through it. Not that they are wrong in condemning some of the various issues, but their motive has not a shred of love and understanding in it. Who would want to live in a world governed by their God? I was reading the other day a comment made by a man who suggested that the reason Christ asked for the cup to be removed from him was in fact, because of the weight of sin he had to bear….all of it from Adam down, the murders, rapes, thievery, hate, adultery,…all of it, to pay the ransome for everyone as well as ‘not being able to see beyond the grave’, meaning I presume, that his future resurrection was not a foregone conclusion. (But Robert was suggesting the other day that should Christ die faithful, there was an obligation on Jehovah to resurrect. A point missed by this writer). So Christ gave his life for the very people they condemn. And how can they hope to save people if they judge and condemn and offer their victims no counsel to change? I must admit that the one thing that does scare me about the end times, is that there is no depth that man will not sink to. It is frightening to see men and women without control and when one considers that Belsen and Auschwitz were conducted with methodical and deliberate control and planning, the miracle of Jehovah’s salvation will be irrefutable for all to see. We can depend on that.

            • The Raven

              No one wants to be screamed at and berated. They are their own worst enemies with this attitude and even folks who believe in freedom of speech and religion cannot get behind belligerents like this. The message is buried in attitude and anger.
              I agree with Robert on this on many occasions when dealing with certain people.
              From the article above us:
              “As stated already, the truth is simple. The primary obstacle to our knowing the truth is not Satan. It is fallen human nature. The truth is, most people do not wish to know the truth. ”

              It is also evident not just among outsiders but also those who claim to be with us. In fact some of our worst enemies will not be outside the gate, they will be among us.
              They will have a hatred for anyone taking the lead or supporting this effort but not overtly. Trouble is, it cannot be hidden from those who are not swayed by flattery or specious arguments for the sake of winning approval. That is a holdover behavior from their years of being deluded in the wto but once they know the truth, they have no excuse, no org or society to blame it on any longer. Just …themselves.

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s true what you say, that when a man is drowning, he will fight his own saviour and possibly kill him as well as himself. Thus it is that when approaching, we do so from a different angle to keep everyone safe. If they want to drown, they will soon show it, without anyone having to lift a finger of reproof that will stop them from accepting that their apparant enemy is in fact a saviour that has actually come to help them. The pathway is narrow and it is difficult to see an unbeaten track and there is much to shake off from the past before we are stripped of our baggage and can fit onto that path.

            • Richard Long

              Baggage. You got that right.

            • jeromecoates

              JW have no hatred. If you don’t give them room to operate, that is your business, not hate.

            • Burt Reynolds

              JWs are subject to hatred of people the same as anyone, but Jesus taught that the correct method of application is to not hate the person, but the wrong that they do. However, there is a limit to this as shown by Jehovah in that he too hates the evil men do, and will ultimately destroy them as people. Again, who would want to destroy such a magnificient creation, but nonetheless, if it is corrupted, what else can you do? That does not mean that he is not saddened to find it necessary. You need to think through the application and meaning of scripture. You appear to be skating on the surface.

            • Richard Long

              Speaking for myself, I am learning the pure truth and how to actually reason on the scriptures for myself at your feet as Saul learned law at the feet of Gamaliel. If Paolo thinks this makes me your “follower” I can live with that, though we all here know we cannot follow where you are going. Thank you for your ardent efforts to help us be prepared for what is to befall us, maybe even to be able to help others as Jehovah would see fit.

            • Craig Knight

              I would add that you Paulo do not understand the power of brainwashing either. It’s the Leadership of the WT who have pounded certain false ideas and concepts in the publishers brains over and over again. If you hear something from your so called faithful leaders it becomes your own truth even if it’s totally warped like the shunning of those who ask a question about chronology etc. Until a JW wakes up to the fact that these are just men and that we should follow Christ not men. As stupid as some religions are like the Scientologists, they too believe it or not have a hard time waking up. Brainwashed people have suffered greatly and some have even committed suicide because they feel like they just lost all hope. Some JW’s have even committed suicide they were so deeply brainwashed. So have compassion for people who have gone thru terrible mental and emotional hell. Most religions in the world are lost in Constantine’s demonic teachings and also they are all involved in nationalism more than anything else. They don’t look to the true God Jehovah but to stupid incompetent rulers of this system. I hope you find the truth of Gods Kingdom message.

            • The Raven

              I have a great respect for those who continue bringing the good news to the world as Christ taught. They have accomplished what no one else has to bring the basics to humanity. He is an ex jw who hates them all and even questions the basics as his “star” has told him. I believe Robert had it right. The guy is nuts.

            • Craig Knight

              Yeah I guess He needs time like I did to lose his anger. When you leave the WT or are forced to leave, anger and fear can drive you nutty literally.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Yes Craig anger will definitely kill a mans spirituality.

              Know this, my beloved brothers: Everyone must be quick to listen, slow to speak,slow to anger, for man’s anger does not bring about God’s righteousness. Therefore, put away all filthiness and every trace of badness, and accept with mildness the implanting of the word that is able to save you.
              James 1:19-20

            • Craig Knight

              That’s a great scripture. Most JW’s who wake up are extremely angry. They have a right to be angry for being lied to and being used. But if a person has a good heart He will not give up on God and will work thru those negative emotions. I’ve seen so many ex Brother’s and Sister’s who seem like great people turn to atheism or start believing in the Trinity and wicked things. It’s very sad. I was too awake to return to the Org but I kept searching because I knew there was some explanation for the goings on in WT. I prayed all the time for help to find the answer. I found Robert’s youtube channel and I knew that this was the answer I was looking for. Especially after reading his book. Turn your anger to the Devil not Jehovah. The Devil approached Eve in the garden AFTER Jehovah’s rest day started. The Devil used the perfect time to approach Eve. Even if Jehovah wanted to destroy Adam and Eve and start over He couldn’t because his rest period started and He could not create a new pair of humans and try again because God cannot lie. So the Devil is very intelligent and crafty. Jehovah allowed the Devil because the Devil has free will too. Robert gave this explanation in one of his videos. I stumbled over why God allowed this to happen but Robert’s answer hit the nail on the head for me! Now my anger is aimed at the Devil and his system. So we need to examine what we are angry at and try to figure out why and put it to prayer to our God and ask for his help.

            • Richard Long

              We’ve all been there, Craig. Robert really has done Jehovah’s work to provide this place where wounded ones can land upon the awakening from the false parousia delusion and the absolute PTSD of seeing for the first time the paradox of the true faith in apostasy. So, go ahead, be wrathful but do not sin, if possible, and be assured of Jehovah’s love and mercy should you somehow be led farther afield by the force of your anger than you might have wished upon reflection. The fact is you HAVE been betrayed, and the hurt you feel is real and raw, and we, for our part will love you through it.

              If you have not yet encountered the story of Daniel Genser here is a link to the account of one good brother’s valiant and, to date, unsuccessful battle for his faith. But for the undeserved kindness of Jehovah, there go we.


            • jeromecoates

              What is brainwashing? Do I brainwash my students to learn math? Brainwashing is forcing someone to accept a teaching . Math is hard and my students want to learn as it helps them later.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Brain washing is a term used in a process that limits a person’s ability to reason on a projected point. It is most effective when mixed with the need to be seen to be in agreement. This can apply to any subject, including maths. (Also, mathematics is a collective in terms of language. Thus one cannot say ‘math’. And in any respect, the term ‘maths’ is an abbreviation in itself).

            • Richard Long

              Or, the effects of the deluding influence. While deluded by the false parousia hoax and it’s far reaching implications, we as a people have progressed to full-on idolization of the Organization, complying in unison with every lying sign and false directive,

            • Craig Knight

              So you disagree that the WT brain washes their followers? Well, the sad thing is JW’s take part in brainwashing themselves by reading and accepting ALL of WT’s teachings without asking good questions. They just accept all that is printed in the WT etc without any questions or if they have any put things on the back burner. I used to hear that back burner thing all the time. Well most stoves don’t have enough burners if you ask me!

            • jeromecoates

              There is no hate with us. We look upon each individual as a person who needs help, not hate.

      • Nigel

        That sounds like circular reasoning. You are implying that “yourselves” applies only to JWs and thus only they could have love amongst themselves.

        But consider: the Good Samaritan did not personally know the beaten man, yet was capable of showing neighbourly love to him.

        Also, Jesus said “Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens” (Matt 5:44,45), clearly showing that the “sons of [Jehovah]” are capable of loving those they do not necessarily know intimately, since neither us nor our enemies would choose to be in close contact with the other.

        Furthermore, by your reasoning, a JW in Australia could not “love” a JW in Russia since they aren’t in close physical proximity to each other. But, alas, we worship in “Spirit and Truth” (John 4:24) and so we aren’t bound by physical distance. All of us (including non-JWs) are capable of praying for one another, which surely counts for loving one another and, of course, “cloth[ing ourselves] with love… is a perfect bond of union.” (Col 3:14)

        Additionally, an assembly of believers need only be made up of 2 or 3 individuals (Matt 18:20), so even a tiny group of believers has the opportunity of having “love among [themselves]”.

        The point is, it is not evangelizing that is the hallmark of true Christianity; genuine love is the hallmark.

        Evangelizing is but one of several functions of the ecclesia:

        “And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ, until we all attain to the oneness of the faith and of the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to being a full-grown man, attaining the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ.” Eph 4:11-13

        If the commands of God were to be summed up concisely, they would not read “go therefore & make disciples”, they would read:

        ““All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must do to them. This, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.” Matt 7:12


        “You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” Matt 22:37-40

        Because “love is the law’s fulfillment” (Rom 13:10) and “love never ends” (1 Cor 13:8 ESV).

        On the subject of Matt 28:19,20, there are three distinct parts to the commandment:

        1. Make disciples
        2. Baptise them
        3. Teach them

        But how many JWs have actually baptized anyone? Is not baptizing an explicit part of the commandment?

        What about the apostle Paul? He helped establish the church of Corinth (Acts 18:1-11, compare 1 Cor 3:6) yet he wrote:

        “I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius” 1 Cor 1:14


        “For Christ sent me, not to baptize, but to declare the good news; and not with wisdom of speech, so that the torture stake of the Christ should not be made useless.” 1 Cor 1:17

        If Christ’s command at Matt 18:19,20 meant that each of us is to individually “baptise” why did Paul say Christ commanded him otherwise?


        “For just as we have in one body many members, but the members do not all have the same function, so we, although many, are one body in union with Christ, but individually we are members belonging to one another. Since, then, we have gifts that differ according to the undeserved kindness given to us, if it is of prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or if it is a ministry, let us be at this ministry; or the one who teaches, let him be at his teaching; or the one who encourages, let him give encouragement; the one who distributes, let him do it liberally; the one who presides, let him do it diligently; the one who shows mercy, let him do it cheerfully.” Rom 12:4-8

        “[T]here are different ministries, and yet there is the same Lord; and there are different activities, and yet it is the same God who performs them all in everyone.” 1 Cor 12:5,6

        “For, indeed, the body is made up not of one member but of many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am no part of the body,” that does not make it no part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am no part of the body,” that does not make it no part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If it were all hearing, where would the sense of smell be? But now God has arranged each of the body members just as he pleased. If they were all the same member, where would the body be? But now they are many members, yet one body.” 1 Cor 12:14-21

        Paul knew the role assigned to him by Christ. And baptizing was not it. Despite not personally baptizing, he was assured that he had a “crown of righteousness” reserved for him (2 Tim 4:8), so obviously God judged that Paul had finished his race faithfully and obediently.

        Let me put it another way: if a godly man worked hard all day at his place of employment and then, when he returned home, did all of the household chores ’til late in the night so that his wife could be a pioneer in the witnessing work, would he be considered unfaithful in the eyes of Jehovah because he did not personally evangelize? The answer is obvious.

        The fact is, evangelizing is not nearly as emphasized in the New Testament as developing a Christ-like personality through the Holy Spirit, the characteristic of love being the “greatest” (1 Cor 13:13) and “our aim” (1 Cor 14:1). Indeed, it will only be when the sons of God are finally brought into perfect unity with Christ & Jehovah (and that would have to include perfect unity in love; compare Amos 3:3) that the world will believe that Jehovah sent Jesus (John 17:21,23) – and that is the whole point of the New Covenant: to bring the sons of God to maturity (Eph 4:13) so that they may be in unity with each other, with Christ & with Jehovah. Only then will God’s ultimate plan proceed to the next stage.

        Whilst not germane to my initial quotes & your subsequent reply, it’s worth noting that there seems to be a huge incongruencey in your insistence that Jehovah’s Witnesses are God’s people by reason of their being named “Jehovah’s Witnesses” given the fact that Jehovah’s name is not found in the name “Israel”, yet Israel was most definitely “called by Jehovah’s name” (2 Chron 7:14). Obviously, being called by Jehovah’s name has less to do with taking Jehovah’s name upon oneself and more to do with being chosen by him and subsequently entering into a covenant relationship with Him.

        Also, compare:

        “[I]t was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.” Acts 11:26

        “”But if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not feel ashamed, but let him keep on glorifying God while bearing this name.” 1 Pet 4:16

        “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit everlasting life.” Matt 19:29

        “Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. Therefore, my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God” Acts 15:14,19 (Does not James here connect those “who are turning to God” as those who are “a people for His name”?)

        It would seem, to me anyway, that Christians in general, both the “fine” and “unsuitable” (Matt 13:48) are the ones “called by my name”. They currently comprise the “dragnet” that has yet to be sorted. (That those “called by Jehovah’s name” have not necessarily received the “crown of righteousness” and may yet be rejected is evident by the principle in 2 Chron 7:14 where Jehovah says “IF my people…”)

        You might argue: “But Jesus isn’t Jehovah so how could one be “called by the name of Jehovah” by merely being a “Christian”?”

        Did you not, yourself, write: “After all, is not Jesus the exact image and representation of his Almighty Father? And is he not authorized to judge in the name of Jehovah?” (https://e-watchman.com/time-will-come/)

        Here’s some scriptures that seem to indicate that servitude to Christ equates to servitude to Jehovah:

        ” “Go back home, and keep on relating what God did for you.” So he went away, proclaiming throughout the whole city what Jesus had done for him.” Luke 8:39

        “And this is the witness, that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has this life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this life.” 1 John 5:11,12

        “If anyone would minister to me, let him follow me, and where I am, there my minister will be also. If anyone would minister to me, the Father will honor him.” John 12:26

        “This was to demonstrate his own righteousness in this present season, so that he might be righteous even when declaring righteous the man who has faith in Jesus.” Rom 3:26

        “Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. But whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” 1 John 2:23

        So who really are the sons of God, the brothers of Christ?

        This isn’t an exhaustive list, but here’s some scriptures that came to mind:

        “[T]o all who did receive [Jesus], he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name.” John 1:12

        “Happy are the peacemakers, since they will be called sons of God.” Matt 5:9

        “Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens” Matt 5:44,45

        “For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons.” Rom 8:14

        “My mother and my brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:21

        (What is the “word of God”? Jesus (John 1:1) and “ALL scripture” (not just Matt 28:19,20) (2 Tim 3:16))

        I haven’t any doubt whatsoever that the JWs have been used extensively by Jehovah & Christ to spread the gospel message throughout the earth but to insist that only a remnant from the JWs alone shall survive this system of things is, in my opinion, dangerous, as it may lead one to cultivate a judgemental attitude towards any who aren’t JWs but who may, in fact, be brothers of Christ. Such an attitude may actually debar one from entering the kingdom:

        ““Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” Matt 25:41-46

      • Nigel

        I wrote out a lengthy reply but it went missing, as you know; I have now posted my reply in the forum… 🙂

      • Why would it rule out believers in other denominations? Love isn’t just something that is expressed among family members.

        • “Believers in other denominations” are basically unbelievers from Jehovah’s standpoint. Like I pointed out, the great masses of “believers” who call Jesus “Lord, Lord” and who prophesy in his name and perform many powerful works in his name, in the name of Jesus, will be told by Christ on that day: “Get away from me you workers of lawlessness. I never knew you.”

          • Ah, okay. Thanks.

          • Nigel

            Just because you say that, Brother King, does not automatically make it so. Certainly “few are the ones” that find life, so you’re correct in saying “the great masses”, but:

            ““WHOEVER exercises faith in [Jesus] is not to be judged.” John 3:18


            “Welcome the man having weaknesses in his faith, but do not pass judgment on differing opinions. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah* can make him stand.” Rom 14:1,4

            Another thought:

            In Ezekiel 20 Jehovah speaks of Israel’s “idols” (plural), yet JWs have only one discernible idol, their Governing Body. How can one idol be “idols”? It makes no sense, until you add ALL of Christendom, and THEN you have “idolS” (plural).

            • Thinking

              Ephesians 4:4
              One body there is and one spirit even as you were CALLED in the one hope to which YOU WERE CALLED , ONE Lord One Faith One baptism One God and Father of all who is over all and in all.

            • Nigel

              Your point?

            • Thinking

              If you cannot see the SCRIPTUAL point Nigel…then there is nothing I can personally add …

            • Nigel

              Ok, well I’m not a mind-reader so I’ll have to assume that your point is based upon “called to…one faith”. If that’s what your point is then may I remind you that even Brother King teaches that the WTS will collapse, so that would leave “zero faith”, if your point is “only one denomination can be correct”. And if that is what your point is, then please explain then how this “one correct denomination” teaches falsehood? Also, how could there be one single “correct denomination” when Paul wrote “we [only currently] see a hazy outline”?

            • Thinking

              There won’t be zero faith left..but it does appear there won’t be a lot left…just a few a remnant

              Romans 11:5
              New Living Translation
              It is the same today, for a few of the people of Israel have remained faithful because of God’s grace–his undeserved kindness in choosing them.

              Berean Study Bible
              In the same way at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace

              Net Bible
              Isa 13:12
              I will make human beings more scarce than pure gold and people more scarce than gold from Ophir

              Beroean Literal Bible Luke 18:8

              I say to you he will execute their avenging in quickness. nevertheless the Son Of Man having come….will he find faith on the earth

              Yes Nigel….there will remain a loyal number…amongst Gods own people…..( whom ever they may be )

              And we see in a hazy manner just as the disciples did….they did not understand fully until CHRIST RETURNED IN THE RESSURECTED FORM….and until he returns the second time..we will continue to see in A hazey form….BUT…..he returned to HIS FOLLOWERS….and those followers came out of Jehovah’s House at that time…

            • Nigel

              “there will remain a loyal number…amongst Gods own people…..( whom ever they may be )”

              So you are, essentially, agreeing with me.

              Jehovah’s “House” is the Spiritual Temple (1 Cor 3:16). The Spiritual Temple is made up of “living stones” (1 Pet 2:5), individual Spirit-anointed Christians, NOT “an earthly organisation”.

              “whom ever they may be”

              We don’t need to guess. Paul enumerated the characteristics of the fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5:22,23, because it’s only THOSE ones who are “Jehovah’s House”: those with the Holy Spirit who are walking “by the Spirit” (Gal 5:16), and “those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed to the stake the flesh together with its passions and desires.” (Gal 5:24). Jesus also gave an identifying feature of who His disciples are at John 13:35: “By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.” And there are yet many more identifying clues found throughout the scriptures.

              It is an INDIVIDUAL walk, not a ticket provided by belonging to an organisation (compare 2 Cor 5:10).

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Just my thoughts.
              It’s apparent that Jehovah’s witnesses as well as the governing body surely idolize not only themselves but also the watchtower itself and if you look further into the matter you’ll also notice that the governing body idolizes money and I wouldn’t be surprised if the watchtower gives their reverence to the eighth king in the near future as a compromise to hold onto their money be ’cause as you know if they don’t compromise then they will not be able to buy or sell.

            • Nigel

              Sorry Kevin, the fact is JWs as a whole do not worship money or any other idol other than “the faithful & discreet slave”.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Robert thoughts

              Watchtower Society Hedge Fund

              An organization called Hedge Fund Intelligence – Global Review hosts an annual pow-wow in London for all the big banks and hedge fund managers, and listed on the roster from the September, 2010, meeting is none other than the Watch Tower Society. Of course, their merely attending a hedge fund meeting does not of itself prove that the Watchtower has become a hedge fund. But, coupled with their scheme to get more money from the congregations and selling off valuable property in Brooklyn, it certainly appears as if they are trying to a acquire a massive pool of money to play the global markets.

              Apparently the Watchtower is no longer content to park their money in a bank or in boring money market accounts or certificates of deposit. Forget 3% interest rates. Yawn. The Bethel money managers are apparently going after the BigMoney. They are now rubbing shoulders with the titans of the London/Wall Street global financial system. Read more>https://e-watchman.com/watchtower-society-hedge-fund/

            • Nigel

              A few wicked ones up in the WTS leadership may dabble in the stock-market/hedge-fund casino with the funds that have been donated to them but the fact remains, the laity themselves are have only one “approved idol”: The F&DS. Dress it up as you will, that is the fact.

            • Thinking

              Judas was in charge of the money box…that’s got to mean something…not sure what yet..

            • Nigel

              Hello Thinking. Whilst Judas only gets a very brief mention, I have written more on my understanding of the matters discussed in Brother King’s article and some of it’s related comments here: https://e-watchman.com/topic/why-jehovahs-witnesses/

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Thinking, let me know when you find out. 🙂

              Isn’t it remarkable how even the most smallest innocuous texts in the bible has something for us to ponder over.

              How true 2 Timothy 3:16 is.

            • Thinking

              How true that is 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yes….who ever exercises faith in Jesus is not to be judged. A belief is not necessarily correct as you point out to Robert, in that his word is not law…though the sentiment he evidenced was actually the bible!

              However, faith cannot be true unless it is correctly applied, and to be correctly applied, it has to be based in truth. Hope is not faith, but faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for. To have hope, you must have assured insight into truth and to have insight into truth, there must be reliability to substantiate the truth.

              The governing body’s hope is in itself, it might be fair to say. That it is concerned with money, is not in doubt. That it is self serving is not in doubt. If that were not the case, they would not have moved from Brooklyn. Name a benefit to Jehovah of their move. The only one that the governing body has stated is that the fresh air there has inspired them to work harder. No evidence of that yet either.

              The worship of idols is not necessarily a devotion to an image. Most people that worship an idol feel that the object is just a representation of a god. The governing body have not put faith in Jehovah in thier move. Indeed they admitted that they had no reason to believe Jehovah approved of such. So they have put faith in their own judgement and used money to realise their assumed needs….from which few have benefitted. The truth of the matter is, and this is public record, is that it was a move to consolidate funds and assets. It follows that if one consolidates, secures value and draws in assets, they do so for the benefit of having such. There is your idol. They have not put Jehovah first.

            • Nigel

              “though the sentiment he evidenced was actually the bible”

              No. He quoted the Bible but his sentiment is actually an example of circular-reasoning.

              “To have hope, you must have assured insight into truth and to have insight into truth, there must be reliability to substantiate the truth.”

              Agreed. However, how much “assured insight into truth” do you think the thief on the stake next to Jesus had? Did he not have just an extremely simple belief in Jesus? And what was his reward for such extremely simple belief in Jesus? “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise”.

              Let’s not overlook the fact, also, that the thief had no chance to evangelise yet that did not prohibit Jesus from making that startling promise to him all the same.

              The rest of your argument I’m not sure what to make of. You speak of what the 7 members Governing Body idolize yet I’m talking about what the 8300000 JWs idolize: the Governing Body!! And in that respect I stand by what I’ve written already: they have but one “approved idol”: the “faithful & discreet slave”.

            • Nigel

              “though the sentiment he evidenced was actually the bible”

              No. He quoted the Bible but his sentiment is actually an example of circular-reasoning.

              “To have hope, you must have assured insight into truth and to have insight into truth, there must be reliability to substantiate the truth.”

              Agreed – to an extent. How much “assured insight into truth” do you think the thief on the stake next to Jesus had? Did he not have just an extremely simple belief in Jesus? And what was his reward for such extremely simple belief in Jesus? “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise”.

              (Let’s not overlook the fact, also, that the thief had no chance to evangelise yet that did not prohibit Jesus from making that startling promise to him all the same.)

              The rest of your argument I’m not sure what to make of. You speak of what the 7 members of the Governing Body idolize yet I’m talking about what millions of JWs idolize: the Governing Body!! And in that respect I stand by what I’ve written already: they have but one “approved idol”: the “faithful & discreet slave”.

            • Richard Long

              Nigel, I’m asking this here for the purpose that others who might actually be looking will see both what I anticipate to be an enlightening answer and why I asked you particularly. You are, of course, under no obligation to answer, because I AM attempting to be shrewd and this IS an invasion of your privacy. Your silence will tell me the question was inappropriate and it will be removed.

              As one who is as certain as possible he is NOT invited, is it appropriate to consider myself a mere “hanger-on” in the sense that every feature of the Kingdom gleaned from scripture relates to me as a beneficiary, not as an heir. In essence, I manage my sanity by hoping for a lot, as in Jehovah is abundant in undeserved kindness, but expecting nothing, because I am in fact, due nothing.

            • Nigel

              Hi Richard!!

              First of all, I wanted to say that NONE of us deserve anything from Jehovah; it’s only because of His rich mercy & Jesus’ selfless sacrifice that we have any hope at all.

              “By this undeserved kindness you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing; rather, it is God’s gift. No, it is not a result of works, so that no one should have grounds for boasting.” Eph 2:8,9

              Let me ask you a question: what makes you so certain you are “NOT invited”?

            • Richard Long

              In the simplest terms, I am very much a physical man. I very strongly yearn to live the intended life of Adam, as I understand it, and am conversely rather strongly repulsed by the prospect of the life Jesus and his brothers live/will live, as I understand it. Perhaps it is the broken condition of my humanity, but it seems inconceivable that Jehovah would place authority over others in the hands of one who so firmly wishes to only have authority over self, and even then only in subjection to One who will lead him to use it properly.

            • Nigel

              I must confess: that was not at all the answer I was expecting to hear from you (!!) but I really appreciate your honesty & candour (and, no, I was not “disappointed” with your answer in the slightest). I’m not sure I can answer you here & now, but I will say this: if you are “meek”, you will “will possess the earth, and…find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.” (Ps 37:11). Much love, Richard.

            • Richard Long

              It’s all I’ve got and I don’t know what to think about it or do about it but read, listen, ask, watch, and wait.

            • Nigel

              Don’t forget to continually pray & give thanks. 🙂

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Rich, you make it sound like you are at fault for not desiring to be one of the anointed. As Nigel pointed out, you will possess the earth …….. That certainly is a blessing from Jehovah isn’t it. I yearn for the same as you by the way and we will have a thousand years to learn the ways of Jehovah and when you reach perfection POW no more reflecting on your broken condition.

              At present we are all broken in one way or another. Living in this sinful world places a huge stress on those desiring to be no part of it.

              I have no doubt you will make a fine citizen. Make sure you look me up 🙂

            • Richard Long

              Thank you for the kind words of encouragement, Jamie. Not my intention to make it sound as hopeless as all that! lol.

            • e.v.g

              Jesus is referring during the time of his presence, everyone will be judged according to their deeds. Some pastors of other religions are immoral and hypocrates, teaching lies regarding Jesus and God. JW’s and other religions are unaware about Jesus presence, although some of them are knowing Jesus mandates they are doing the opposite, whatever his name was governing body, jimmy swagart etc. So if someone really loves jesus and God and he or she are doing God’s will, they will have to understand that jesus is ruling during his presence and will support jesus brothers and sisters during their persecution.

            • Richard Long

              Can there even be a doubt that, during the actual parousia, every single living human of an age or condition of accountability will absolutely know Christ has begun his rule? Hasn’t Robert plainly stated Christ and the Eight King will rule concurrently for a brief time, the “hour of test” Perhaps it is enough for each of us to see to our own resolve and allow for, even hope for, more surprising and seemingly unlikely changes of heart than we could ever imagine?

            • e.v.g

              The apostle Paul said to the corinthians that some will prefer darkness instead of light, some right now are even rejecting God’s arrangement regarding God’s chosen ones saying that JW’s are just a cult. The apostle peter said also about to have the mind of jesus, did you know what does it means?

            • Richard Long

              Since the following may well be describing me, perhaps it would be more productive to ignore me.

              1 Cor. 2:14 But a physical man does not accept* the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. 15 However, the spiritual man examines all things,+ but he himself is not examined by any man. 16 For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah,* so that he may instruct him?”+ But we do have the mind of Christ.+

              One might also consider that Robert is likely not the only invited one that frequents this place. What is one to do but watch when two evidently invited ones differ in opinion on issues that surpass our understanding? I regret interfering and apologize for aggravating you.

            • e.v.g

              I respect everyones’s opinion, what is surprise to me that some people are being drawn to some strange beliefs on this site, people that were JW’s, or probably i am wrong.

            • The Raven

              Robert has explained much of these matters to an extensive degree and imparted a great deal of understanding to some of us. I continue to search through his work daily.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I cannot say that I understand the meaning of the scripture to ‘have the mind of Christ ‘. But also, you state about love being the main responsibility for us. But who can say that we know the (true) meaning and depth love love? Jehovah is love. Therefore, which one of us likewise, would say we ‘know’ love. Personally, I think our expressions and sense of love are very superficial. If the greatest of all attributes is love, all we can hope to do is to emulate our personal sense of love in line with our scripturally founded understanding of what that consists of. Likewise ‘having the mind of Christ’ will be pertaining to those who have the greatest understanding, scripturally, and in their personal lives, of what that means. The ‘sense of what happens’ in terms of psychology. Having the mind of Christ would go hand in hand with the anointing of the spirit (I would believe) and thus it would follow that some are blessed with a degree of insight that is denied to others. This seems to follow the pattern of Jehovah’s intervention with man to date…..the prophets, the disciples. Synonymous with that, would come a greater degree of punishment for the abuse of that greater insight. Now, this has to apply to some from the time of it being written through to the time of the end. What else can we do to inherit the kingdom, than put faith in it. Personally, I find it it peculiar to the annointed ( that I know of) who have woken up from the lie. Within the bonding of the truth of the bible, I put my faith in those ones, because where, and to whom else, could I give it, being necessary for salvation?

            • Bklyn Kevin

              More food for thought.

              “He First Loved Us”
              12 A·gaʹpe refers to love that is guided by principle. So it is more than just an emotional response to another person. It is broader in scope, more thoughtful and deliberate in its basis. Above all, a·gaʹpe is utterly unselfish. For example, look again at John 3:16. What is “the world” that God loved so much that he gave his only-begotten Son? It is the world of redeemable mankind. That includes many people who are pursuing a sinful course in life. Does Jehovah love each one as a personal friend, the way he loved faithful Abraham? (James 2:23) No, but Jehovah lovingly extends goodness toward all, even at great cost to himself. He wants all to repent and change their ways. (2 Peter 3:9) Many do. These he happily receives as his friends.Read more>

              Agape (Ancient Greek ἀγάπη, agápē) is a Greco-Christian term referring to “love; the highest form of love, charity”, and “the love of God for man and of man for God”. Not be confused with philia, brotherly love, it embraces a universal, unconditional love that transcends, that persists regardless of circumstance.
              Agape – Wikipedia Read more>

            • Burt Reynolds

              Thanks Kevin. It’s good to know it applies to us all.

            • e.v.g

              I was referring to those men that are claiming that they are something, apostles, faithuls or whateveter. I understand (in imperfect human stage) the apostle paul gave an excelent example of agape love, he said also that christians should follow his steps or example, anyway, the anointed will be disciplined and then they will be ready to follow the steps of their master.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Oh right. Thanks. I misunderstood.

            • Nigel

              Hello Brother Reynolds.

              To make clear, the command to love is from Jehovah:

              “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”+ 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah* your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul* and with your whole mind.’+38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’+ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” Matt 22:36-40

              ” I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another.” John 13:34

              “This is my commandment, that you love one another just as I have loved you.+ 13 No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life* in behalf of his friends.” John 15:12,13

              “These things I command you, that you love one another.” John 15:17

              “Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another,+ because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and knows God.+ 8 Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.+” 1 John 4:7,8

              “Beloved ones, if this is how God loved us, then we are also under obligation to love one another.+ 12 No one has seen God at any time.+If we continue loving one another, God remains in us and his love is made perfect in us.” 1 John 4:11,12

              “And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother.” 1 John 4:21

              ” In brotherly love have tender affection for one another. In showing honor to one another, take the lead.” Rom 12:10

              “Do not owe anything to anyone except to love one another;+ for whoever loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law.+ 9 For the law code, “You must not commit adultery,+ you must not murder,+you must not steal,+ you must not covet,”+ and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this saying: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.”+ 10 Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor;+therefore, love is the law’s fulfillment.” Rom 13:8-10

              “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge,+ and if I have all the faith so as to move* mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing” 1 Cor 13:1,2

              “Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.” 1 Cor 13:13

              “Let everything you do be done with love.” 1 Cor 16:14

              “Do not let loyal love and faithfulness* leave you. Tie them around your neck; Write them on the tablet of your heart; Then you will find favor and good insight In the eyes of God and man” Prov 3:3,4

              “But besides all these things, clothe yourselves with love” Col 3:14

              “Above all things, have intense love for one another,+ because love covers a multitude of sins.” 1 Pet 4:8

              “If, now, you carry out the royal* law according to the scripture, “You must love your neighbor as yourself,”+ you are doing quite well.” James 2:8


              You wrote:

              “But who can say that we know the (true) meaning and depth [of] love? Jehovah is love. Therefore, which one of us likewise, would say we ‘know’ love.”

              I’ll readily agree that we cannot yet fathom the depth of God’s love, but this scripture seems to indicate that it is possible to know God’s love:

              “And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love,+ and the one who remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him.” 1 John 4:16

              Since “God is love”, Christ is the “exact image of the Invisible God” and the Chosen Ones will eventually come to the “stature of the measure of Christ”, it stands to reason, then, that the Chosen Ones will eventually know & be love like Jehovah Himself. And I’m certain that such love will also eventually be known, understood and shown by those who will live forever on earth (compare Eph 1:10).


              You wrote:

              “If the greatest of all attributes is love, all we can hope to do is to emulate our personal sense of love in line with our scripturally founded understanding of what that consists of.”

              Certainly Christ “left us a model to follow closely in his steps” (1 Pet 2:21) and in that regard we emulate Christ, but truly, it is only those with the Holy Spirit and who abide in (aka “remain in union with”) Christ who can properly love:

              ““I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. 2 He takes away every branch in me not bearing fruit, and he cleans every one bearing fruit, so that it may bear more fruit.+3 You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.+4 Remain in union with me, and I will remain in union with you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in union with me.+ 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit;” John 15:1-5

              “the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,* kindness, goodness,+ faith” Gal 5:22 (Notice it is the fruit of the Spirit that produces love, not the works of the flesh, not our own efforts. That is why we’re told to “walk in the spirit” (Gal 5:16) and that is why it is only those who are “led by the Spirit” that are, indeed “God’s Sons” (Rom 8:14). (Compare: John 8:44)

              “Moreover, may the Lord cause you to increase, yes, to abound in love for one another+and for all, just as we do for you” 1 Thess 3:12

              “For God did not give us a spirit of cowardice,+ but one of power+ and of love and of soundness of mind.” 2 Tim 1:7

              “the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy spirit, which was given to us.” Romans 5:5 (compare Luke 6:45)


              You wrote:

              “Having the mind of Christ would go hand in hand with the anointing of the spirit (I would believe)”

              Agreed. A careful reading of 1 Cor 2 seems to agree with your belief.

              But may I also suggest that having “the mind of Christ” may also include having the same attitude of Christ? His attitude is exemplified here:

              “Father, if you want to, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” Luke 22:42


              “Then Jesus said to his disciples: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake* and keep following me.+ 25 For whoever wants to save his life* will lose it, but whoever loses his life* for my sake will find it.” Matt 16:24,25

              Peter seems to agree with this:

              “Since Christ suffered in the flesh,+ you too arm yourselves with the same mental disposition;*because the person who has suffered in the flesh has desisted from sins,+2 so that he may live the remainder of his time in the flesh, no more for the desires of men,+ but for God’s will.” 1 Peter 4:1,2

              You wrote:

              “Personally, I find it it peculiar to the annointed ( that I know of) who have woken up from the lie. Within the bonding of the truth of the bible, I put my faith in those ones, because where, and to whom else, could I give it, being necessary for salvation?”

              Have you not read:

              “Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.” Ps 146:3

              “Trust in Jehovah+ with all your heart,And do not rely* on your own understanding.” Prov 3:5

              “Do not let your hearts be troubled.+ Exercise faith in God;+exercise faith also in me. ” John 14:1

              “Jesus said to them: “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will not get hungry at all, and whoever exercises faith in me will never get thirsty at all.”” John 6:35

              “So Jesus said to the Twelve: “You do not want to go also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” John 6:67,68

              “Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name+ under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” Acts 4:12

              “It is better to take refuge in Jehovah Than to trust in princes.” Ps 118:9

              “And he put faith in Jehovah,+and He counted* it to him as righteousness.” Gen 15:6

              “Search for Jehovah+ and his strength. Seek his face* constantly.” 1 Chron 16:11

              “This is what Jehovah says: “Cursed is the man* who puts his trust in mere humans, Who relies on human power, And whose heart turns away from Jehovah. Blessed is the man* who puts his trust in Jehovah, Whose confidence is in Jehovah.” Jer 17:5-7

              “Do not put faith in your companion Or trust a close friend. Guard what you say to the one who lies in your embrace.” Micah 7:5


              This I say to you & all who read this: stop putting your faith & trust in men and, instead, put your faith & trust solely in Jehovah & Jesus. And stop reading (so many of) the words of men and start reading (many more of) the words of God.

              “For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” but another says, “I to A·polʹlos,”+are you not acting like mere men? What, then, is A·polʹlos? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers+through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one. I planted,+ A·polʹlos watered,+ but God kept making it grow, so that neither is the one who plants anything nor is the one who waters, but God who makes it grow.So let no one boast in men” 1 Cor 3:4-7,21

              “Sanctify them* by means of the truth;+ your word is truth.” John 17:17

              ” So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God,+ for he gives generously to all and without reproaching,*+ and it will be given him.” James 1:5
”However, when that one* comes, the spirit of the truth,+ he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come.” John 16:13

              And if you don’t have the Holy Spirit, ask:

              “Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!” Luke 11:13 (compare Num 11:29, Matt 7:7, 1 Cor 2:14)

              In love,


            • Nigel

              I agree with the overall sentiment of your comment, but I’m curious: what makes you say John 3:19-21 is referring exclusively to “the time of his presence”? The entire passage reads more like a principle, and v.18 says “Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already”.

            • e.v.g

              During the 3 years and a half from testimony of christ’s brothers and sisters, they will need support from jesus and other people, being betrayed by relatives and fellow brothers and sisters. Where they are going to? according to the scriptures many people of the nations will go to Jehovah’s mountain. The jews were judged because their lack of faith, the son of God was in the midst of them. The anointed have a similar pattern regarding christ’s presence. Whether, if we are knowing the truth, better to keep doing the right thing.

    • Nigel
  • The Raven

    “Anyone who would confuse the Latter Day Saints with Jehovah’s Witnesses is woefully ignorant.”

    Lol! I had an interesting discussion about that a short while ago. I’ve studied many faiths over the years and come to the conclusion that one fits the requirements for the basic truths well. Christendom doesn’t come anywhere close. I think most people don’t want to see anyone perish and that is why they have a hard time believing that Jehovah would only approve of a few. But that’s exactly what Christ said would happen. There are others who look at all the evil things the wto has done and use that as a club to beat them over the head with not realizing that this too is a sign, they are in line to be judged by Jehovah. He is not going to clean out a house that doesn’t belong to Him and Christendom certainly does not.
    Nothing is carved in stone right now concerning His people and I learned that from your other articles on this matter. Something I did not know. However it is obvious to me they do stand in line to become His and as of right now are the only ones who do.

    “Our faith in the saving power of the name of Jehovah will become paramount at that time, as the survivors of the oncoming holocaust will be those who call upon the name of Jehovah. “And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will prove to be the escaped ones, just as Jehovah has said, and in among the survivors, whom Jehovah is calling.”

    Very good timing on this article. Thank you, Robert.

  • The Raven

    Now, I wonder who these folks will be that no longer have to teach his neighbors about Jehovah?

    Jeremiah 31:34
    34 “And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’+ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,”+ declares Jehovah. “For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”+

    11 “‘And they will no longer teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying: “Know Jehovah!”* For they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful toward their unrighteous deeds, and I will no longer call their sins to mind.’”+
    13 In his saying “a new covenant,” he has made the former one obsolete.+ Now what is obsolete and growing old is near to vanishing away.+

    • Bklyn Kevin
      • The Raven

        Thanks Kevin. It was a rhetorical question. This solidifies the view that there is only one people who have done this.

        Excerpts from the article you posted:

        “What does it mean – “Jehovah will become their God”? It does not mean that Jehovah was not their God before. Obviously, Jehovah was the God of the Jews before they were plundered and went into exile among the nations. Yet, after their repatriation Jehovah cleansed them, so that Ezekiel 37:23 similarly says: “And they will no longer defile themselves with their dungy idols and with their disgusting things and with all their transgressions; and I shall certainly save them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and I will cleanse them, and they must become my people, and I myself shall become their God.”

        So too, Jehovah is the God of Christians even before antitypical Jerusalem is desolated and the chosen ones go into captivity to the nations. So, the expression “I shall become their God” denotes a positive change in the relationship between God and man. They become his people by virtue of an act of God to reconcile his people to himself by forgiving their error.”

        • Bklyn Kevin

          ‘P0W’ Raven’… thank you for that excerpt.

          • The Raven

            Thank you! That link was all I needed!

  • Joseph
    • Burt Reynolds

      They use a computer voice to talk to the sheep!? How impersonal and distant can the watchtower get, using a machine like that? Perhaps it gives them more time at breakfast, being waited on.

      • Joseph

        Hahaha, I don’t think it’s from them, just some publisher on his or her own.

        • Richard Long

          Unauthorized????? Shocking!!!!!!?

    • Richard Long

      Uh, that’s not nearly as welcoming and reassuring as dear old brother Henshell!

  • e.v.g

    Yep!, JW’s have the sons of God on their midst, ready to be discovered during the time of the end, although some of them need a discipline. Sadly we heard messages emanating from the man of lawlessness during the meetings in a subtle and unnoticed way, yes the devil is very clever and wicked.

  • jeromecoates

    Well said. We say to ones who are abused –_once, go to the police. Then we will handle the Spiritual matters separately,.

    Just think there are no collection plates with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Everything we do is by voluntary contributions. When we finish a meeting, we have a song and prayer–no collection plate! There is box in the back so we can put in what we want, when we want and with no dunning. All money is green so we do not keep track to who contributes what and how much. Oh what a blessing and notto worry about a collection.

    • Burt Reynolds

      There is in fact a great obligation put on the whole congregation to donate money. Even videos are made about it and special videos for children. There may not be a physical collection plate, but there is and remains a very large grasping, gilt laden pressure to contribute. Even the hours spent contributing on the ministry are monitored and if not done to an ‘acceptable’ amount, come under scrutiny, visits, cajoling and sanctions. Yet again when contributing to the meetings, yet again in volunteering time, yet again in obligations. If not having a collection plate is looked on as a blessing, it is nothing compared with the missing plate of spiritual food that should be passed around.

    • Daisy d

      Awwhh Jerome, that sounds really nice ….and you’re 70 years faithful so many congratulations dear brother…:D best wishes.

  • The Raven

    “Trump’s encounter with Putin was commendable because he did not succumb to toxic Russophobia and adopt a stupid, mindless tough-guy posture. Instead, Trump reached out to Putin in a genuine way, as two human beings should do.”

    Glad to see this. The more these two talk to each other the more the shadow government will be forced to show their hand. If anything does go boom, more folks will begin to understand who is really behind it. After the disgust a large percentage of Americans have with the media, it will be harder for them to control the narrative. I know where this is eventually going of course, but I still commend folks who try to do the right thing.
    We’ll see…

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