Satan’s influence over Jehovah’s Witnesses

//Satan’s influence over Jehovah’s Witnesses

Friday, September 8

He will crush your head.—Gen. 3:15.

When Jesus was born, Satan knew that this newborn child would grow up to become the promised Messiah. Would Satan reason that taking the life of a baby was going too far? Satan has no noble code of ethics. And with regard to the child Jesus, Satan did not hesitate to act. How? King Herod was greatly upset when astrologers inquired about “the one born king of the Jews,” and he was determined to kill him. To make sure that the job was done, he ordered the execution of all boys two years of age and younger who were living in Bethlehem and its districts. Jesus escaped death in that unimaginable slaughter, but what does this tell us about our enemy Satan? It is evident that the Devil places no value on human life. He certainly does not have a soft spot for children. Satan truly is “a roaring lion.” Never underestimate his vicious disposition!

It is true. Satan is vicious and cunning. However, he is far more subtle, clever and insidious than Jehovah’s Witnesses can possibly imagine. First, though, consider a bit of history.

After Satan failed in his attempt to kill Jesus in the cradle and tempt him in the wilderness his most successful scheme was placing one of his dupes, a certain Judas Iscariot, into Jesus’ intimate company as one of the 12 apostles. And on the night when Jesus instituted the evening meal the account says Satan entered into Judas and he betrayed the Son of God with a kiss. Jesus knew his betrayer, but the apostles were completely oblivious. Even after Jesus handed Judas the morsel and told him to go do his deed the 11 apostles were still in the dark.

The point is, Judas was an insider. And he wouldn’t be the last. Shortly after Pentecost a great persecution erupted. The apostle James was killed. So was Stephen. Gentile Christians came under great persecution in Rome when Nero blamed them for the great fire.

But the frontal attack on Jesus’ disciples, as vicious as it was, did little to stop the spread of Christianity. Jesus had forewarned his disciples that they would be persecuted and even killed. So, they were prepared for it. Satan’s primary strategy was to infiltrate and corrupt. It began even while the apostles were alive, such as occurred in the Corinthian congregation, which was dominated by those whom Paul dubbed the superfine apostles, who were evil men who were merely disguised as ministers of righteousness in imitation of Satan, who routinely disguises himself as an angel of light.

In time the apostles passed off the scene along with other stalwarts. And as Paul warned oppressive wolves entered in and dominated the flock. Ultimately, Satan took complete control when the Roman emperor, Constantine, inserted himself as the decider of Christian doctrine. Over the centuries the popes acquired such power that the light of truth was extinguished. Even the Bible was locked away in a dying language and kept out of the hands of the common man.

It wasn’t until the invention of the printing press in the 1400’s that it became possible to break Satan’s grip on the Bible. But it still took several centuries to make the Bible affordable and widely available in the common languages of Europeans who were under the authority of the clergy of Christendom.  But with the colonization of America by pilgrims seeking religious freedom, the political environment was established for the truth to thrive. And with numerous Bible-distributing societies in the 1800s the field was fertile as could be for the seeds of truth that began to be sown by the Watchtower.

With the reappearance of anointed Christians zealously preaching and teaching, Satan reverted to his original strategy of infiltration. Jesus illustrated this in the 13th chapter of Matthew, where he explained: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels.”

What is most telling —as regards the telltale influence of Satan —is that according to the Watchtower the Devil has no influence over the organization. The harvest has already occurred. The weeds are all bundled up and the wheat is secure in the storehouse. Indeed, Jehovah’s Witnesses are luxuriating in spiritual paradise. Only those who wander off the spiritual estate come under evil influence.

What is also revealing, is that, at no time has the Watchtower ever pointed forward to the second coming of Christ. From the very beginning of Russell’s Bible studies with the little Allegheny group the second coming of Christ was believed to have already occurred. Think of it, those original Bible students were just figuring out that Jesus was not Jehovah God, that there was no burning hell, that the soul did not live on, and all that simple stuff, and yet they believed that the monumental second coming of Christ took place in 1874, the very year Russell began to study the Bible.

Of course, around 1930 the Watchtower unceremoniously dropped 1874 and flipped the date of Christ’s return to 1914. But the intent is the same —to place the second coming of Christ in the past; hence, rendering the most important and profound event imaginable into irrelevancy. 

On the one hand it is clear that the whole 1914, invisible parousia doctrine, is an artfully contrived satanic operation, it only remains in operation because God allows it. After all, it is easy to refute it, as I have done. God could easily override the operation of Satan if he wished. But it is as Paul said: “That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”

Jehovah allows Satan to wield his deluding influence —blending the lie with the truth, which has been the case from the very beginning —in order to serve as a test. The test will commence with the second coming of Christ. Then all the things the Watchtower has taught regarding 1914 will be shown to be a lie.

But 1914 is not the only lie promoted by the Judas-like man of lawlessness. Over the decades the Devil has elevated the Watchtower in the minds of Jehovah’s Witnesses to become an idol. Just look at how often the Watchtower refers to “pure worship.” What a presumptuous thing. How could there be any such thing as pure worship as long as Satan is allowed to influence God’s people? Keep in mind that Jesus told his apostles that not all of them were clean —intimating Judas was not pure.

The organization is considered to be the infallible mouthpiece of God. So, when it becomes apparent it is not many will find it impossible to accept. Hence, they will be judged because they took pleasure in worshipping the organization and will refuse to believe the truth regarding the real second coming of Jesus Christ.

2017-09-08T10:03:13+00:00 September 8th, 2017|Commentary|167 Comments
  • Huldah

    More and more it begins to appear that the”revealing” of the MOL will commence with the complete discrediting of 1914. I wonder if that will signal the start of Christ’s presence. There will be many who choose the “idol” rather than the truth. Even now, there are many who are fighting hard to keep the delusion strong.

    • Easach of Coimbatore

      Have you heard in the meetings elders telling that whatever the organization tells it is as Jehovah himself has said? Once I asked as elder did Jehovah said that end will come in 1975? Did Jehovah said that the Gog and Magog represents Satan? So how can you say that whatever the organization tells it is as Jehovah himself has said? He said oh boy just meet me later. Equating Organization’s sayings with Jehovah’s sayings is itself an idolatry

      • Huldah

        It’s always interesting to hear your experiences in the congregation.It seems it has always been that way. You are right. It is an idol.

    • Easach of Coimbatore

      How is your health? Have U got rid of your tooth problem. Well try to avoid soft drinks. I have totally opposed the soft drinks as one of my friend a Dental doctor said that Soft drinks companies are related to illuminates and they have their agenda to spoil our health. When I went for a checkup for swollen gum of my wisdom tooth he said hey man you have a good teeth, even the doctor himself have extracted couple of his teeth.
      Is it true that Soft drinks companies are related to illuminates and they have that agenda? I knew that they put some phosphoric acid in the drinks.

      • Huldah

        Soft drinks even diet are awful for your teeth. Tea is very good. I don’t know about Illuminati.. I never heard that.

        I have several health problems that caused it and suffered abuse as a child that caused me to grind my teeth horribly. Unfortunately, the intense stress I suffered pioneering in the WT org. compounded the stress and the inability to get proper care, being out of the country and in remote rural towns with little money and no insurance.

        It doesn’t help that dentists in the US, despite their reputation, are terribly incompetent. A money based insurance based health care system creates incompetent medical professionals who figure they have a right to quit thinking after they graduate medical/dental school and ride the gravy train. I was just a child and my problems started early so I couldn’t protect myself.

        Almost every system, many started in the US, is predatory by nature. Insurance, medicine, commercial food, banking, pick your poison. “Man has dominated man to his injury.” The longer you live the truer this becomes.

  • Alex Henrique

    Thanks Robert. Seems to be true.

  • Craig Knight

    Great points about how the Devil has always been within the congregation. It should be no shock to us that the Devil targets God’s people but JW’s seem to think they are above that. The Devil tried viciously thru the Catholic church to stop the Bible from being copied as you say Robert. I think it was was Max who told me about Tyndale and the price He paid. If you haven’t seen that youtube movie it is so good. Here it is for you who missed it like I did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVOrQg8Wq0M

  • whats anoying and so mind boggling stupid; the stupidity that just blows my mind, is that they will reply back ‘oh the light gets brighter and brighter’ after being told something such as the interpretation of the prophetic generation has been revised a number of times. the light obviously DIDN’T get brighter cause it was wrong the first 5 times you dolt! did the light get brighter the 2nd time? NO! thats why it had to be revised a 3rd and again and again! how stupid can you be!?! seriously. needing to be redone 6 times now DIDN’T prove the light got brighter. it proved there was no new light the first 5 times when you kept saying that same stupid thing! and saying the light got brighter this 6th time still isnt true because it too is provable this ‘new ajusted understanding’ is wrong yet again! but thats ok we’ll just keep calling it new light everytime and use the excuse that the FS are imperfect; throwing 2-Peter 1:20-21 out the window.

    again, getting something wrong repeatedly does NOT prove the light got brighter, it proved that there was no new light to begin with 5 times previously plus one!

    this GB idol FS man-god crap has got to end.

    if Jehovah wants it to be known then it does not matter that the FS is imperfect. Jehovah knows what hes talking about and wouldnt interpret through his anointed wrong 6 times but it would be understood correctly the first time.
    if they keep getting something prophetic wrong then its obviously not by Jehovah’s spirit but their own interpretation

    • Huldah

      All it proves to.me is we have a prideful presumptuos leadership who oversteps their bounds time and time again.

      Sorry…I ‘didnt learn the Christ to be so’.
      Am I to expect his soon to be immortal brothers not to be anything like him?

      • Burt Reynolds

        I have always felt the same if I understand you correctly, in that it is difficult to equate some….if not all, of the governing body with a Christ like attitude, let alone demeanour. Why they cannot see that in themselves I don’t know. I would be most uncomfortable living as they do, with their all to easily disposable workforce cooped up like battery hens and slaving in their workhouse. They seem to be totally unaware of themselves.

        • Huldah

          Exactly great summation.
          You know. Herod removed the priests from their duties to become bricklayers for his upgrades to the temple.Josephus wrote about it.

          Same play, different actors.

    • Alex Henrique

      please watch video on my comment here in this page, they talk about this

    • J.M.J.

      Exactly .Did Jesus ever say .”just a minute ,I have had a rethink ,as the light is getting brighter”? What Jesus said was the truth from start to finish .I know at the start with Russel they were coming away from what was being taught as regards hell fire ,144000 etc .They were Bible students and were looking into what was truly written and had the right frame of mind .

      • Daisy

        Russell’s bible students are still going to this day.
        They are the brothers, sisters and children of Russell’s followers called ‘Friends of Jehovah’s witnesses’ and can be reached online.

      • Burt Reynolds

        There is a ring of truth to that. We are so used to reading the slurs against the watchtower, along with the ugly truths, but it’s naive to believe that they were all conspiritous thieves of the truth. The thought you raise is supported by the bible in that people are told to get out of her, though at times I wonder if that does not apply also to all those getting out of the entire system when they see and understand the meaning of Christ’s return. I think it is all to easy to mistake blindness for wilfulness.

        • Anderiega

          Maybe it’s one big hologram……

      • Huldah

        Good point yes true bible students not traditionalists. That was the key. Love for the word of God not the WT.
        The org loves to say, “Don’t go beyond the things written [in the Watchtower].”
        Sadly the real point is lost. “Don’t go beyond the things written [in the Bible].”
        They should take their own advise.

        • J.M.J.

          To who ever takes from or adds to the bible ,it will be exacted upon them .Not a literal quote ,but it covers what is written and what JEHOVAH has said .

      • yeah, ive said that same thing. did Isaiah or Daniel or Ezekiel say with prophecy ‘oops got that wrong, here’s what Jehovah meant, let me write it down again differently’. no. never happened. when Jehovah revealed his plan to anyone he got it right through them the first time. and if they did make a mistake, which im sure they did, (besides Jesus) it would not be with prophecy. if they didnt understand something fully then like Paul or Daniel they would mention that but not give a faults interpretation of what was revealed to them. the GB or WT men are not any Ezekiel, Isaiah, John, etc class. they are stupid class.

        • Huldah

          You’re funny DA
          “Stupid class”
          I’m a teacher so that makes me laugh even more.
          I can imagine them looking up at me from their desks at Mountaineer Middle School and thinking to myself, “Sheesh, this is a stupid class!”

        • J.M.J.

          Exactly .I believe that with some of the books Matthew ,Mark etc there are some differences in numbers etc.. .But some of the Disciples were more learned so it is more their personality and abi;ity that shows rather than mistakes and disharmony .The message is always the same .

    • Burt Reynolds

      No need for a thesaurus here! I like it!

    • Craig Knight

      Don’t forget what Russell said. “NEW LIGHT CANNOT CONTRADICT OLD LIGHT.”

      19We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

      Prophets spoke by God’s holy spirit according to 2 Peter but the WT prophet’s say they are not inspired so what do we expect from them?

      • Easach of Coimbatore

        New light cannot contradict old what about Gog and Magog now collisions of nations not Satan. Aha lol, Russell should have been now

    • trudy

      When I saw that scripture I could see that did not makes SENCE .I was always told to listen to watchtower mags nothing eles . It was crazy .I am more calm and still learning the truth about …the truth .

  • Huldah

    Since noone seems to read the forum, I’m posting this timely topic here.

    Did you know that the original Greek word seismos or earthquake can also be translated storm or tempest.
    As in when Jesus calmed the storm.
    It means a turmoil of land sea or air, not just land. Hurricanes qualify so do tsunamis.

    So what does it really mean at Luke 21:11 “great earthquakes”.
    Check it out if you don’t believe me.
    Seismos didn’t originally mean earthquake.

    I think today qualifies as seismos in one place after another.
    Earthquake Mexico 8.1
    Irma Harvey

    Here’s a reference from Bible Hub

    Englishman’s Concordance
    σεισμὸς (seismos) — 9 Occurrences

    Matthew 8:24 N-NMS
    GRK: καὶ ἰδοὺ σεισμὸς μέγας ἐγένετο
    NAS: a great storm on the sea,
    KJV: a great tempest in
    INT: And Behold a storm great arose

    Matthew 28:2 N-NMS
    GRK: καὶ ἰδοὺ σεισμὸς ἐγένετο μέγας
    NAS: a severe earthquake had occurred,
    KJV: a great earthquake: for
    INT: And behold an earthquake there was great

    Acts 16:26 N-NMS
    GRK: ἄφνω δὲ σεισμὸς ἐγένετο μέγας
    NAS: a great earthquake, so
    KJV: a great earthquake, so that
    INT: suddenly moreover earthquake there was a great

    Revelation 6:12 N-NMS
    GRK: ἕκτην καὶ σεισμὸς μέγας ἐγένετο
    NAS: and there was a great earthquake; and the sun
    KJV: a great earthquake; and
    INT: sixth and an earthquake great there was

    • humm, interesting

      • Huldah

        Tru dhat
        Great list!
        Thanks for looking into it yourself.

        • yeah seems to indicate environmental catastrophes

          • Huldah

            tumultuous events in the land, sea or air.
            I think even wildfires count too.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Huldah, Does anyone know if we are experiencing more of these events. Scientists are divided but a lot are pinning the blame on global warming.

              quote …………

              I think today qualifies as seismos in one place after another.
              Earthquake Mexico 8.1
              Irma Harvey

              end quote ……..

              Jesus did say Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.

              So these seismos will occur at the same time as nation rising against nation. We haven’t witnessed nation rising against nation yet unless we put on our WT hats.

              It’s very interesting what you say, but it raises more questions, for me anyway.

            • Huldah

              Hi Jamie

              One thing is true, the intensity is stronger. More high magnitude earthquakes, slower moving more destructive hurricanes. They also affect larger numbers of people than before.

              The stage is clearly set for the fulfillment if we are not experiencing it now.
              War and”earthquakes” aren’t going to just come out of the blue. As Robert points out there’s a bulid to these events already happening. That’s the exciting thing. You can see it coming, economic collapse, war, seismos.

              I don’t put stock in Arguments or so called science against climate change or the obvious increase in natural disasters.
              Its a fact that the wealthiest faction of the world has an extreme interest in keeping us dumbed down on what’s happening to the earth. Oil gas coal, the greatest money makers in history are throwing their dollars behind a propaganda machine to do just that. A “scientist” will say anything if you pay him enough, just like a lawyer or politician.
              We who ‘love truth’ so often make the mistake of believing others do too. Nope they love self and money and they’ll tell us anything to keep it rolling in in spades.

              Don’t ask a termite if all the wood he’s eating is going to eventually make your home come crashing down around you.
              He’ll say, in his impish little termite voice,”Oh no, go back to watching Football. You have nothing to worry about.”???

              The most powerful hurricane in Atlantic history is about to hit Florida. 100’s of thousands of people are evacuating.

              Yep, it’s worse. Anybody who tells you different is trying to sell you something…… Oil and a sense of complacency over the slow nefarious destruction of your planet.

              I’m kinda passionate about this and I hate the greed that is destroying the planet.
              But soon ‘God is going to ruin those ruining the earth.’ You can see that coming too.

            • The Raven

              We in the panhandle have had thousands of evacuees come here. We have been watching this storm for days and my neighbors just got a Uhaul and decided to bug out. As I look up and down my road it looked like a few more are doing that. Isn’t that a kick in the pants? They fled here from south Florida and now everyone here may have to leave if this storm does not make a more northerly turn soon. Eh. Spent the day at work, came home and started cutting grass and pulling out the shutters. It’s going to be a few interesting days here. I hope not too interesting. I’ve popped in to read some of the comments and they’re great!

            • Huldah

              I was thinking of you. Hoping for the best. Didn’t know the threat to Florida was spreading. Seemed to start at the tip, then eastern seaboard now the panhandle may get it. PHEW! Take care.

            • Max

              How are you doing Raven? It’s on the news that Irma is now down to category 3.

            • The Raven

              Hi Max. Been a hectic week, but we are all ok. I’ve been reading the comments here and there and I’m always glad to see you drop by and offer your insight. How have you been?

            • Max

              Great to hear you are all Ok. It really looked pretty scary! I’ve been doing Ok. The KH working some creazy patients same old same old.

            • Craig Knight

              Be safe there Raven!

            • Huldah

              Hoping for the best didn’t cut it. It seems.
              Hope you’re riding it out okay.

              I recently learned about an awesome parrot rescue sanctuary in Tampa. Wish I didn’t know about it cause all I hear is Irma’s heading right for Tampa. I guess I have to add one big black bird to all the other birds I’m fretting about.

              Stay safe.

            • The Raven

              lol! Thanks, Huldah. This black bird has been running around like a Chihuahua on speed since this mess started. It’s been an exhausting week. I retired from industrial and commercial electrical and went to work for a rental management company about seven years ago. We keep up the places and do whatever needs to be done. It’s a great job and the view of the gulf is beautiful. They handle about 50+ properties mainly on the beach. We had to pull all patio furniture in, secure several places and speak with numerous evacuees who have never been here before on what’s what in the area. Very nice folks, mainly families. Almost everyone cut their rates for lodging and food for these folks and we all prayed the storm would remain east of us. It did. We got outerbands but not bad. Some power outages, trees down and some boats left beached from the reverse surge we experienced from very strong northeast winds (that was weird) but all in all we did OK. Some of these families have already learned their houses were either flooded or destroyed. It’s sad. Many of our local crews and first responders are already headed down south to help. May Jehovah bless them all. I am grateful we were spared that devastation, but for a few more miles it would have been us.

            • Huldah

              Glad to hear it wasn’t quite as bad as I worried.
              Sounds like everyone is supportive of each other. That’s really nice to hear.

            • The Raven

              For the most part folks here are good when it comes to storms but there are always the jackasses who just HAVE to clean out a shelf of water or bread leaving nothing for others. Floridians are as crazy as New Yorkers. Come to think of it many here ARE ex New Yorkers! haha! You see the good shine and the bad get rounded up when these things happen. Same everywhere I suppose.

            • The Raven
            • Huldah

              Ha Ha. Adorable
              I guess if I was that pretty I’d stare in the mirror too.
              Glad they were safe.

            • The Raven

              They were probably wondering where that strange flock came from. lol!

            • Giuseppe

              That sucks, I think you’ll be fine! Just bring in the trash can and any other lose items…
              Keep us posted .

            • The Raven

              Eh, Paisano! Come stai? We are doing ok. Worst part went east of us and yes, I did bring the trash can inside until the dogs got interested and then right back out it went, under the porch with a concrete block in it! lol!

            • Giuseppe

              I’m jealous, you get to enjoy the beauty of the gulf!
              We vacation at watercolor, seaside, cape San blas and st George! Beautiful white sand beaches!!

            • The Raven

              That’s part of my area. Bay county. I love St. George Island. Beautiful lighthouse out there. Pristine beaches. I rode out there a few years back and it’s grown but many places around here have building restrictions. They won’t permit anything over 3 or 5 stories which is good, unlike Panama city beach which has become an ugly condo canyon. Can’t even see the beach anymore from 98, or as the rich have dubbed it “30A”. lol!

            • Craig Knight

              Great comments Huldah. I can surely sense things coming to a head. It’s scary and exciting at the same time.

            • Huldah

              Luke 21:
              29Then he gave them this illustration: “Notice the fig tree, or any other tree.
              30When the leaves come out, you know without being told that summer is near.
              31In the same way, when you see all these things taking place, you can know that the Kingdom of God is near.

              I think about this text, the build to the fulfillment of the sign. If summer is the presence, the leaves are the turbulence we see escalate right now.

            • Huldah
      • Giuseppe

        How about adding solar flairs to the list?
        https://youtu.be/_ZYypk3Dcd8

          • Craig Knight

            That was a scary video! It seems natural disasters are much worse than any man made bombs. Very interesting! It will be nice when God controls nature to keep his children safe.

          • Easach of Coimbatore

            This shows the power of Jehovah packed in nature is greater than man’s invention. Will he not use this energy under guidance to destroy those who obey Satan?

      • Huldah
    • black curtain

      Nice work Huldah
      regards bc

    • Burt Reynolds

      I remember the great earthquake tempest storm flood of 1947. The English always have a thesaurus on hand to describe the weather, so we naturally allow plenty of leeway for bible descriptions of the catastrophic. Our national weather service has recently caused huge embarrassment here by giving the weather configurations names. Now, when there is a trickle of rain, they grandly call it STORM AGATHA, or STORM WINIFRED, or some such epithet, while you chaps over there are having 180mph winds and Noachian floods and calling it a slight chill. Last year they had us all horrified at storm Penelope and hurricane winds of nearly 21mph, which promised to sink England, only to have the sun come out and a daffodil bloom, so they quickly changed the forecast to global warming. When I read of the sun darkening, the moon going blood red, stars falling from heaven, plagues, diseases, starvation, riots etc, I no longer look for definitive description, I just sum it up in the good old, time honoured phrase, ‘This doesn’t look good Carruthers….not good at all.’ and carry on playing Bowls as did Sir Francis Drake, when the Spanish were trying to invade us back in the 1500s.

      • Huldah

        Lol I love it ” a daffodil bloom” Now that would be a noteworthy natural phenomenon in September. But it would be a stretch to called it “seismos”.
        Never heard of those storms before. Guess there’s a reason.

  • Alex Henrique

    Maybe this is not the right place to start this discussion, but I’d like to hear from friends here, and also from Robert King’s thoughts about the 3/4 Bible students who split up from the group that followed Rutherford after the fights in 1916? They still exist and do their studies and eventually some preaching. Many of their basic beliefs are the same as Jehovah’s Witnesses, but it seems they have some thoughts about 1914, as well as about the pyramid.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9uK2B6ZaPg

    http://www.internationalbiblestudents.com/

    • Giuseppe

      no comprende video amigo

      • Alex Henrique

        They speak in english but is translated in Portuguese. I think have good points.

        • Huldah

          I listened to most if it. I would have liked to know more doctrine. What they believe. Of course it’s good they leave things open for discussion and are bringing Russels work to light.
          Whats with the cross symbol?

        • Giuseppe

          Ohhh okay I see, thanks that was interesting!

    • Craig Knight

      Alex – Here is an article from Wikipedia about some splinter groups from JW’s. The Dawn Bible Students teach a lot of the same things as JW’s. At the end of the article under external links it shows some of the groups that separated from WT IN THE 30’s. The Dawn group believe that the Jew’s will rule in Jerusalem like many other religions in Christendom believe. So they miss the boat on that score. They also are politically tied to the nation of Israel: Here’s a few paragraph’s.

      Jesus, though, said nothing about these kingdom blessings in this prophecy recorded by Luke. He only said that Jerusalem, emblematic of the nation, would no longer be “trodden down” by the Gentiles. Since the treading down of the nation began with the loss of its sovereign independence, its restoration to this status would fulfill Jesus’ prophecy. Israel, since 1948, is now a free nation, having been given this status in the world by the United Nations.

      The state of Israel today is not a large nation. Jesus did not say it would be. She does not possess all the land promised to her, nor is she free from many serious problems, but these conditions were not implied by Jesus. Like every other nation on earth today, Israel is perplexed and fearful. She has economic, social and political challenges which are similar to those of other nations, and as is abundantly evident, she has many enemies.

      Jesus did not say that Israel would escape these problems when she first became free. He indicated only that Israel would no longer be trodden down—that her status of bondage as a nation, which began six centuries earlier when King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon conquered Jerusalem, would be changed. She would again be free to conduct her own affairs and make her own laws. Indeed, we have seen this come to pass.

      The heavenly kingdom seems to have escaped the Dawn Bible Students. Jesus will rule in heaven not on earth in Israel. Do you really think Jesus would have anything to do with a nation on earth who have many weapons and nukes provided by the Anglo American world power? No Christ will come to destroy all nations who rely on their own might because the Devil is behind all ruling Governments,

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_splinter_groups

      • Burt Reynolds

        It seems that any part of the witnesses have difficulty thinking out side of the box. Jerusalem, if not the whole state of Israel is a tinderbox of opposing religions and a good example of all that is wrong with religion. As during the Middle Ages, they fight over their ‘holy relics’ of Christ and build their impenetrable orthodoxy around them all to keep the faithless faithful from falling away.

        • Craig Knight

          I like that the faithless faithful! That’s funny but fitting. Great point about Israel too. Most religions are totally into nationalism and politics. They don’t look to or trust in God but look to their governments to save them like the wayward Israelite’s who looked to Egypt and other nations which God considered a sin. Jehovah’s people stand apart from the world because of their neutral stance. I don’t know of any other religion besides maybe the Quakers who do not get involved in politics.

          • Alex Henrique

            I have no criticism of the moral questions among Jehovah’s Witnesses. I do not question points involving Blood, Christmas, Birthdays, Politics.
            I just think that with regards to prophecies, WTS teaching is 90% wrong. Maybe God did not allowed to them understanding this.
            The basic truths that Jehovah’s Witnesses believe along with moral are the factors that give substance to being “the temple of God” on earth, in my point of view.

            • Huldah

              “Maybe God did not allowed to them understanding this.”
              Right
              There is a Watchtower article that explains that most prophecy is not understood until right before or after it is fulfilled. They site the incident where Ezekiel was informed that Jerusalem had fallen, after it fell, by someone else. They deviate from their own stated beliefs when they engage in speculation and it’s obviously not working for them!

            • Craig Knight

              Oh yeah the WTS has failed miserably in prophecy as we have learned here from Robert’s site. God has allowed them to have this spirit of error regarding prophecy maybe because they had too much arrogance along the way. I’m just guessing but maybe if the WTS was more apologetic when errors were made in the past God would have guided them more correctly on prophecy. Instead He is humbling them for lying and sweeping things under the rug and mistreating the sheep by forcing them to labor hard under WT’s yoke. As in ancient Israel when the Kings sinned all of the Israelite’s suffered as well. So JW’s are suffering from prophetic delusion along with them. The Elder’s seem to share their arrogance as well.

            • Richard Long

              Or, perhaps there is no appropriate reward or blessings for a person or group of people who refuse to take their Master’s word for it when he says:

              Acts 1:7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.*+

            • Craig Knight

              Good point! Even most of Christendom’s religions won’t attempt to guess when the end will come. Acts almost says “Hey it’s none of your business to know these things!” WT would be so much better off if they hadn’t gone against scripture and tried to figure it out anyway! Which is just plain arrogance. The blood guilt WT carries for their careless 1914 date and other dates might be why God allowed this spirit of error to plague them all these years.

        • Huldah

          Yes. thanks for keeping up with reality.

          I recently found a good site that put up a logical explanation countering WT on the great crowd and other sheep.

          Then I looked at the topic of Israel on their drop down and they misapplied all the scrips to modern Israel. Why do all the good ones seem to find a way to burst my bubble by discrediting themselves?

          At least you are keeping my fragile bubble afloat.

          • Burt Reynolds

            I think there probably are good sites out there who have grasped some of the biblical issues. We would be like Morris if we said that we had exclusive contact with Jehovah. However, the bible when talking about faithfulness in marriage advises all to ‘…drink at your own well…’ For my part, it is not so much about gleaning these few gems from the fields of others, or even the very interesting historical and scientific facts from the past, both of which I enjoy. Essentially, Jehovah will reveal what is required here if necessary. I cannot imagine that Jehovah has any special interest in Jerusalem. Would he not have more interest in the garden of Eden if places held a meaning? To the contrary, the Father says there is no house on earth that could contain him, and to those places that have been debauched by man, he seems to have a habit of wiping them clean off the earth. Babylon, and an excellent job of sodom, not to mention his entire creation, preserving only the minimum genetic needs to carry out his promise. If he would destroy his entire handiwork, for what people are doing, then how much more so for what they have done? Personally speaking, preserving the place where his son was murdered would not appear high on his list I would venture to say, but I have not been made privy to his intentions in that regard, so I cannot claim any insight.

            • Huldah

              Excellent points.
              I like the reasoning on Jerusalem the “killer of the prophets” as Jesus said before he was killed by them. Sort of like the reasoning we use on the cross.

      • Alex Henrique

        I had the feeling that Satan was able to freeze the spiritual
        understanding of the students of the Bible, and nowadays among Jehovah’s
        witnesses, the understanding is also frozen, but there are those who
        wake up between them.

        They have complete freedom of thought, but this does not guarantee that their understanding will continue.

        (1 John 5:18) . . .We know that every [person] that has been born from God does not practice sin, but the One born from God watches him, and the wicked one does not fasten his hold on him.

    • Burt Reynolds

      I think that historically, at that time, the witness ethos was already corrupted. It is not that the bible students quit the others because of that corruption, they split because they did not believe the same things within that corruption. But as a whole, if you look at what these factions developed into, both are erroneous, and were so at the time of the split. It is no different from the splits seen in the Church of England now over the question of women bring ordained and of having homosexual priests of either sex as ministers. The fact is that they can split over these issues, but that does not make them correct or redeemed in the eyes of God. They are still loaded down with any number of sins that they ignore….having a form of holy devotion but proving false when tested so to speak. There seems to be one truth. The bible, and how we align ourselves to it. When tested, that will prove if we are acceptable or not. As far as I am aware, the meaning of the pyramids is not discussed in the bible. Their design, construction and use has never been fathomed and we would be unable even today, to construct anything like them. The technology exceeds our own and I can only think that people were a great deal more aware prior to the flood than they were after it. I assume they are pre-flood, as it’s the only explanation I can think of, if only for the reason that post flood, all technology had to be relearnt, starting off as it did with nothing except a clean earth and an unemployed boat builder.

      • Alex Henrique

        Yes! It’s possible! I never thought about it! Possibly, those who built the pyramids were the Nephilims!

        (Genesis 6:4) . . .The Nephʹi·lim were on the earth in those days and afterward.

        • Burt Reynolds

          I really don’t know if it would have been Nephalim. It’s possible for a multitude of reasons, but there would be an equal amount of argument against. There are so many mathematical wonders about the pyramids from demonstrating the circumference of the earth, to alignment with the Stars, and from electricity production….wireless, to harmonics in sound. The only thing I care to ascribe to their making, is that it is possible that Adam and Eve were blessed with a far greater knowledge than we would experience now and that their offspring would have benefitted from it. But then, failing that, what sort of mathematical insight would Angels have?! What is of interest is that the technology to cut and move stone through resonance and magnetic levitation is not only (relatively) simple, but also non polluting, and a form of light to measure by, that reflects the accuracy of the pyramids, we use today, but the implements to do so then we’re there at the time. When one remembers that atoms of hydrogen when split, could power a city, it is not hard to see just how ignorant we are. It may be we who are thick, and our ancestors the clever ones. We have no yardstick to measure our intelligence by.

          • Alex Henrique

            They are interesting reviews. But this is not necessarily a game of chess with many movements where we can observe the intelligence of the players. It is only a fact that these evaluations are “observed”. In the end it may even be possible for simple humans to have built the pyramids, and today many “see” all these “facts”. Is I am clear?

          • Huldah

            Another good point is that men lived longer than they do now.
            I can’t imagine how much more understanding I would have in 400 years let alone 800.

          • Jordan Seager

            Angles (obviously including demons) surely must have great knowledge of quantum mechanics and beyond. Mind boggling human equations are probably solved in a nano second. As the conspiracy theories prove, CERN is pretty deep in the area of portals, time travel and teleportation. And look at their opening ceremony for the Large Hadron Collider pretty satanic.

          • Bklyn Kevin

            Tower of Babel Genesis 11:6.
            Jehovah then said: “Look! They are one people with one language, and this is what they have started to do.
            Now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be impossible for them. Read more>

            https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/genesis/11/

            • Huldah

              Good point
              Man is very capable especially when united like one language would.

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s interesting how in the space of a couple of hundred years, life expectancy and reduced by the same amount, or in one case down to 109 years. I often wonder if the desired affect of the dissolution of the canopy was to not only rid the world of the undesired element of Nephalim and even the playing field, but also to curb the level of population so that its growth and the capacity of the world to cope with it would coincide with the end of the sabbath day of rest. Given that a third of the world is underfed, it seems a reasonable indicator of the Father, knowing from the beginning, the end.

        • Huldah

          That’s actually kinda good. It would explain the obvious love the demons have for the pyramid symbol. They’ve pasted it on the premiere idol of our time, the dollar bill.

          Maybe the demons built them with their sons.

          There’s a rumor going around on the net from some fairly accomplished men that an extreme hiker came across a pyramid structure in Antarctica. Of course some attribute it to aliens, which is a ruse of the demons. I wouldn’t put it past the demons to have some plans using their favorite structure as their time runs out. Don’t know how believable all that is, but I do believe there are military bases on Antarctica that we know little about, Russian, US, etc…

          • Richard Long

            UH… third reich

            • Huldah

              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4071252/Is-Nazi-UFO-site-buried-Antarctic-Bizarre-theory-claims-base-hidden-mysterious-150-mile-anomaly.html

              The theory I heard was a little more believable than this one. I do believe the demons mess with people and I do think there are Russian and US bases in Antarctica.

              I am almost sold that the materialized demons at least contributed the building of the pyramids somehow. It adds up a little too much.

              What part of Florida do you live?

            • Richard Long

              Raven is FL (panhandle) I’m KY

            • Huldah

              Doh!
              When you were talking about tropical heat a few months ago, I thought you were both in FL.
              My sister is in Atlanta so I know it can get muggy out your way too, but I assume you are just about as safe as we are then.

            • Richard Long

              I was in Key West on vacation at that particular moment, having just cruised the Caribbean

            • Burt Reynolds

              You seem to do a lot of cruising Richard. If you need any help to carry your luggage, I have plenty of free time.

            • Richard Long

              That’t all over now. I am carrying the luggage to pay for it but as it was likely the last vacation ever with my oldest, I will happily bear my debt-slavery. BTW, many seniors cruise full time, as it’s about the third of the daily cost for a decent assisted living facility. Ships come complete with brig. clinic and morgue, so every eventuality is covered. :p

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yes I’ve heard of senior cruising because it’s cheaper. Mind you, if that was a British cruise ship, they would do away with the morgue, put a Bingo hall in its place and tip the poor deceased over the edge into the sea…….and the brig would be full of old football fans and the captain would be one of them.

            • Giuseppe
            • Huldah

              http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/837120/Yellowstone-supervolcano-to-BLOW-1400-earthquakes

              Makes me wonder what Robert has to say about a Yellowstone super volcano erupting.

              Maybe if we expand the fracking industry in the vicinity of Yellowstone we’ll find out what a super volcano eruption feels like.

              How much longer is Jehovah going to tolerate puny humans thinking they’reir more powerful than he is? Personally, I can’t wait til he shows us who’s boss.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I can guarantee you that Robert would say the same as everyone else. Something on the lines of…’oh dear’, or maybe ‘They don’t make ’em like that anymore…’ We English of course will break out our tin hats and say ‘Blimey! Weather looks a bit unsettled. Better take an umbrella.’

            • Huldah

              Somehow I can’t picture Robert saying “Oh dear!”
              I think the problem is that my mind keeps translating it into a girly voice.??

              IMO Instead

              He’d probably start out a Tweet with “Now that’s what I’m talkin’ about…”???

            • Burt Reynolds

              Could be righ there Huldah ….could be right. ( in truth I had imagined a few expletives, but thought I would tone it down☹️).

            • Richard Long

              The Yellowstone caldera detonation was explored visually in the movie 2012. Scary!

            • Huldah

              I’m looking that one up.

            • Richard Long

              That’s where Cusack’s character and his kids were vacationing when it all started to go bad, as I recall. Could be wrong.

            • Giuseppe
            • Burt Reynolds

              Is that chap at the end saying ‘you heard it first from Giuseppe’? It certainly sounds like it!

            • Giuseppe

              Yeah he did, that’s my crazy brother Tom!

            • Burt Reynolds

              I’m half believing you on that score!

            • Burt Reynolds

              The Yellowstone volcano is undoubtably a good way to clean house.

            • Burt Reynolds

              We had some rain today. Does that compare?

            • Easach of Coimbatore

              I like such things to discuss great picture

            • Burt Reynolds

              I’m from Somerset. We do things small in England.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Just about every country circling the Antarctica have a finger in the pie. They were dividing it up in terms of who had the most land along its diameter. Norway Sweden and Finland have been somewhat bullied by the Russian Bear, but America Britain and some smaller states have ‘rights’ over its mineral content. Given the depth of continental shelving, the pre-flood era would undoubtably have exposed huge land bridges than enabled people to go there. That there may be buildings there is possible. The Nephalim were setting in. They did not expect Jehovah to flood his own creation, and so dominance and control, one might assume we’re top of their list. Same as today. Obviously they would not have gone to Australia as they would have had to live upside down, and as is evidenced by there being no pyramids in Oz.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Building the pyramids would have required advanced lifting tools. Though the blocks of stone used averaged between one to six tons, I understand there were many heavier at about ten tons. The average weight of each stone was two and a half tons and the pyramid at Cheops is calculated to weigh six million tons. Given the density of the stone, to lift the blocks manually into position pro-rata with the amount of men required to do so, it would have required more men to move it than could possibly get behind or under it due to its relatively small size. Even upscaling muscle power and leverage pro-rata to a Nephalim size of ten feet, one could imagine it possible to lift somewhat over a ton only in exceptional cases and certainly not carry it up a pyramid. I think the only answer can be that they had some methodology from spirit intelligence. Even it it were something as technically simple as opposing magnetic forces that we employ in some trains now, a block of stone a few tons in weight could be propelled up a ramp and into position quite easily. That there must have been some advanced lifting technique is evident in that some Egyptian megaliths weighing in excess of one hundred tons remain in place where they were quarried, and not only in Egypt either. It’s not likely that they were using copper chisels and reed and flax rope to move that baby. The Antarctic pyramids lend a certain evidence to the pre-flood theory of construction, and more so in that were they some form of electrical generating device as is suggested by some evidences, and which seems quite understandable if not probable, then what better place to put it right where earths magnetic field touches down? And if one understands the magnetic shielding of the earth, it stands to reason, one understands electricity, magnetic forces, motive energy, light and gravity. And the only period in which it could be built, would be pre-flood. So quite believable as you point out.

        • Nephilim have not existed after the flood. you should know better

          • Daisy

            Gen:6:4 “There were giants in the earth in those days; AND AFTER THAT…” ( the DNA nephilim gene coming from one or more of the wives of Noah’s three sons, “the father of Canaan”, Ham’s son.
            Nimrod is Ham’s grandson Gen:10: “And Cush begot ” Nimrod; he began to be a giant upon the earth” ( through occult ritual)?
            Giants…
            Og and Sihon
            Goliath
            Anak
            Arba

            Bloodlines of the Nephilim: beginningandend.com
            The nephilim/ occult connection

            Check it out Doc? Too much for me to tap out, the information is fascinating. ❤️

      • Huldah

        Floyd Kite gave a talk “Enduring Tests Within Jehs Org”

        He talked about PSL Johnson, one of the guys who had it out with Rutherford and lost. The WT version is in the pubs.
        He created a group.
        He was first sent to your neck of the woods and supposedly caused a bunch of trouble befor finally getting kicked off the board of directors.
        He sounded like a prideful man, but then again so did Rutherford and I probably got the WT spin version.

        “You’re live with Big W_T
        The Spin Doctors
        On your favorite station,
        WT 191.4
        Keepin’ it real
        with our favorite generation.
        Now here’s an oldie but a goodie by Neil Diamond, I’m a Believer.”

        https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/neildiamond/imabeliever.html

        • Burt Reynolds

          You’ve lost me on this one Huldah! Who is PSL ETC ETC. (I’m only a man!)

          • Huldah

            Some of the comments are discussing splinter groups that broke off around the time of Russel’s death.

            I’m assuming one of the main one’s was possibly started by PSL Johnson. His story is told by the brother in that talk. Of course the WT spin is that he was an evil man who caused divisions and Rutherford put a stop too it, but not before he was unwise enough to send Johnson to the British branch to cause trouble there. Then Rutherford finally got a clue and ousted him from the board. Johnson is mentioned in some older publications too. My joke was just a reference to how much we have to filter the WT version and spin we receive of the facts to suit the picture they want to portray.

            This is just a tiny window into the happenings around the time of Rutherford’s claiming power.

            I know Johnson started a group. Just don’t know much after that. I wonder if he started one of the ones that are still around today.

            Interesting talk. Kite also talks about the KGB District Overseers in Russia and a Branch Overseer in Africa who was disfellowshipped for blatant immorality just before he was about to travel to Brooklyn Bethel to receive a promotion. He went on to cause major problems, since he studied with most of the people in the country.

    • Easach of Coimbatore

      In India in Bangalore there is a place called Konenagrahara near Murgeshpalaya and there is a building named as Jesukurpa complex whose owner is also a worshiper of Jehovah and they run religious group called as The reapers of Christ in their own building who basic teachings are those of WTS but they do not believe in 1914 and they don’t do field service they have the same cross used by Zions watch tower except there is no crown around the cross I think so they have done it because people will accuse them of Freemason of course they are not Freemasons as I have done research and found that a brother named Jayaappa who was a JW taught them the truth and I don’t know how they get their members increased.

  • Rev Zone

    Robert . Question .
    What is meant by the scripture that says they took pleasure in unrighteousness and believing the LIE what unrighteousness are they taking pleasure in?

    • Alex Henrique

      I would also like to understand what this means.
      I imagine one of the many possibilities.
      * “Faithful and discreet slave” >>> Mat 23:10-12.
      * 1914

      • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

        This is just a shot in the dark, but I’m thinking the pleasure they take in as far as 1914 goes, is that theyre self assurred that this understanding can’t mean anything else for any particular time, except 1914. The other being they’re taking on the roles as kings which is unrighteous in itself before the appointment. I imagine there are other things, like boasting in they have no quarrel with Jehovah and he has no quarrel with them, such as being in a spiritual Paradise which is another Folly brought on by their unrighteous activity but specifically it may be too early to tell.

        • Alex Henrique

          The things you said seem right. It is worth remembering…
          (1 Corinthians 4:5) . . .Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God.

          Yes, the claim to be an organization unconditionally approved by Jehovah God is quite presumptuous. There are people who assume the rank of Kings and have these Kings their kingdom subjects – without this being pointed out by Christ – is a blasphemous statement. They should be more careful in saying this, both to those who teach and to those who believe in this teaching. It seems to be something that is there to serve as stumbling block. But Jesus said they will be withdrawn.

          (Matthew 13:41) . . . The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness. . .

          • Bklyn Kevin

            More food for thought
            Hello Alex I think you might enjoy reading these two articles as they are informative.
            Many Will Be Stumbled – Will You Be?.

            Excerpt:
            Jesus also foretold that during the conclusion “many will be stumbled.” What did Jesus mean? Was he referring to true Christians?

            The Watchtower Society teaches that the worldwide preaching of Jehovah’s Witnesses is fulfilling the aspect of that very same prophecy in which Jesus also foretold that the good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the world, and then the end will come.

            In Peter-like cocksureness, though, the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses insist that those many who will stumble could not possibly be from among the number who are engaged in preaching the good news of the kingdom. Their reasoning behind drawing that conclusion is that no mass stumbling of Christians took place in the 1st century prior to the desolation of Jerusalem. But is that reasoning sound?

            Thinking Jehovah’s Witnesses do well to consider the fact that there are many aspects of the sign Jesus gave that did not have any fulfillment in the 1st century. For example, Jesus said that men will become faint with fear in contemplating the dreadful things coming upon the entire inhabited earth. Also, Jesus said that the very powers of the heaven would be shaken. Obviously, those aspects of the sign were not in evidence in the days of the apostles. The reasoning of the Watchtower and her appointed spokesmen is not scripturally sound.
            Read more>
            https://e-watchman.com/many-will-be-stumbled-will-you-be/

            Why did so many of Jehovah’s Witnesses lose faith?
            https://e-watchman.com/many-jehovahs-witnesses-lose-faith/

        • Burt Reynolds

          It makes a lot of sense.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Roberts said in so many words In the bottom of this article that they will be judged
      because they took pleasure in unrighteousness by worshipping the organization
      because they will refuse to believe the truth regarding the real second coming of Jesus Christ

      Read more>Satan’s influence over Jehovah’s Witnesses.https://e-watchman.com/satans-influence-jehovahs-witnesses/#comment-3509760625

      • Easach of Coimbatore

        You are right my dear brother Bklyn Kevin

    • Burt Reynolds

      I have always taken that scripture to mean unrighteousness in general, because grammatically, the sentance separates the unrighteousness, or pleasure in doing unrighteousness, from the lie. This infers that there was pleasure in both unrighteousness AND the lie. They are two separate entities. I don’t know if that would be implied in the original language though. It could also infer that they took pleasure in the outcome of believing the lie.

  • Max

    What it’s really incredible is that against all odds the truth has always been able to push through Satan’s opposition. Since the beginning of the fall of man when everything seemed lost Jehovah always found the way to make it shine. When I was studying the Bible my conductor once said that the truth was like gold in a mine because its never follows a straight line the ore sometimes appears and they disappear from the surface but it’s always there you just have to keep digging. Even now the WT with it “Judas class”in open defiance to Jehovah’s anointed King the truth has continued to shine through in the hearts of thousands of people. The fact that we today are posting and talking and seeking the truth from the truth it’s a great testimony to the greatness and power of Jehovah no wonder Paul said to the Romans “O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and past tracing out his ways are for who has come to know Jehovah’s mind or who has become his counselor? Let’s continue digging for the gold nuggets of the truth because it’s Jehovah’s will that the truth be found. He truly wants to be known and found by all us… And what a blessing that really is! 1Chronicles 28:9

    • Easach of Coimbatore

      Very thought provoking analogy

    • Craig Knight

      Max – The digging never stops does it! As I get older and now have more time I study every day. I have learned more from Robert and the folks here on the forum than I ever did in the KH. Jehovah does want to be loved and known by his children. Ps 53:2 God looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.

      • Max

        Very true. The fact that the almighty wants to be loved and known by us is simply amazing. Regarding the KH I feel the same way. I have too learnt here more than all my years in the organization. The way I feel is that at least I got to know the basic truth, but all prophetic aspects only here… which I’m so thankful for! Before I was going blind into the great tribulation believing that the kingdom was established in 1914. And let me tell you I felt so proud for knowing that, it was such an important date for me. But now I know that a wold wide war will destroy all governments and that the kingdom is still to come and that a single tiranical governent will emerge out of that chaos. Then that government will last for about 3 years and then Armageddon will finally comes. And you know that information is priceless because we are better prepared to face the end now than our friends at the KH. Brother King has explained to us step by step prophecy by prophecy what will eventually happen. I considered myself very much blessed for having such a precious knowledge.

        • Huldah

          Yes I used to be relieved to know things would continue “just as in the days of Noah” and the US would go down “alive” into the abyss. No worries no changes. A sweet lullaby to lull us to sleep.

          • Burt Reynolds

            ZZZZzzzzzzz

        • Craig Knight

          Yeah you nailed it! I feel exactly the same. It is priceless to know how things will occur so we can be prepared. Jesus prepared his people before the fall of Jerusalem. Once they saw the disgusting thing they fled into the wilderness. We know how things will occur in our time and it is a blessing to know that.

      • Burt Reynolds

        I agree with what you say Craig. My blindness and devotion to the watchtower still astounds me to this day. The only recompense for my lost years I can definitely point to is that it allowed me to recognise the truth when I saw it. I find it incomprehensible that I never questioned the watchtower. I don’t know if anyone else has thought of it that way….what it is that stops us from questioning. It’s a bit glib to blame it all on Satan, though that may be the case, without some self inspection. For all the faults that one may perceive to be so on this site, it does not seek any other cause than to clarify the truth. Who knows for certain that they themselves interpret prophesy and know the mind of Jehovah? Yet the truth does not rest on prophesy, it rests, as you point out, upon the love from Jehovah and our response to it. That alone is sufficient for our attention in this day. This site explaines that fact in a blatant way, not an emotive way, you may notice. One can hardly call this site cuddly or based on whipping up the Happy Clapper syndrome. No. That is left to the reader. The analogy of course can be mirrored in human terms. We learn the mechanics of love through observation and hormones, but the it is not until we understand its value in marriage, that we begin to understand the bigger picture. Faithfulness, honour, putting the need of the other first, kindness, gentleness, compassion: that love is not so much a consuming passion, but is the essence of life itself as Jesus indicated through use of the term, marriage. And, that it comes from ourselves. We cannot be given it. The word is spoken of as bread, and bread is useless, sterile, unless eaten. Here, we read words, but it is how we embibe them that produces the desired result and they can only produce that result if they are true. Thus the evidence of truth, is the fruit it produces. Is that fruit evident here?

        I sometimes think of the anomaly that makes this world similar to the Matrix trilogy, in that it seems quite possible to stumble from one lie to another and believe it to be a revelation of truth. What seems different here is the Father’s purpose, the will of Jehovah, is evident, if it is evident in ourselves. I have not read any biblical argument from others that can refute it. If I am yet blind, then I must assume that my spiritual eyes are truly blind.

        • Huldah

          As far as the question of why we blindly follow the WT.

          “bad associations spoil useful habits”
          In a way this applies,in that humans are pack animals. Those drawn to the truth are “sheeple” (in some ways in a good sense too). Most I come across are looking for someone to trust and follow. My husband recently said his biggest problem was his willingness to trust everyone.

          I cannot emphasize enough how we all are affected by our environment. We are constantly being BRAINWASHED, every minute of the day. Imperfect humans are always seeking to control and dominate others, force them into their mold.
          Even now, by you reading this, my association is influencing your thinking, simply by the fact that you consider my opinion, even if you take the additional time needed to determine if you agree with it. Satan capitalizes on our prideful belief that we are not “sheeple” and think for ourselves, could never be fooled into following others. So does the advertising industry.

          All the tough guys watching boxing, wrestling, football think they are immune to outside influences or brainwashing, yet overlook the very fact that the men they are watching make millions of dollars BECAUSE advertisers pay to have them influence the mind of their fans to buy stuff. Can you imagine the reasonable salaries they would have to settle for if their pay was based on entrance fees and hotdog sales? Youtube too. It could not exist without the power of brainwashing.

          Call yourself gullible if you like, but all the people calling you that
          are gullible in many ways themselves, following the crowd too. Feeling
          free because they have the control and right to to live life as they
          please, but often, as Paul pointed out, becoming “slaves to sin”, slaves
          to the popular crowd, instead of slaves to an organization. Slaves,
          nonetheless.

          Enter the Watchtower…..the innate desire to control others…..they gradually build on their knowledge how to manipulate and control. Control becomes paramount, when fissures begin to develop in their white washed wall. domination dominates. The isolation that is enforced by the power they have to use God as their source of authority and the Bible to back up their claims as being the only source of truth reinforces whatever distortion of truth they want to promote.

          It’s actually good to be a sincere, responsible, trusting person. The problem is this is Satan’s world and the organization has come under Satan’s insidious influence from the beginning. Thus, the predatory nature of so many. Honesty, innocence and trust become the same dangerous liability it is for children who become the victims of the most vile abusers. Yet Christ exhorts us to become as “little children”. Are children wrong to trust?

          This is the nature of the evil we confront.

          We were never the ones who were wrong to trust.
          It’s the leadership who will bear the deadly responsibility for the fact that they are wrong to be untrustworthy.

          • Alex Henrique

            “We were never the ones who were wrong to trust.” >>> I don’t know. I think Jehovah wants that all JW people use his discernment. But WTS do not recommend that.

            “It’s the leadership who will bear the deadly responsibility for the fact that they are wrong to be untrustworthy.” >>> I think that Jesus and Jehovah have bitter things waiting to be poured into their heads, that is, GB.

          • Max

            You nail it!!! I think that is exactly
            the reason why the WT and as a matter of fact all religion institutions
            are able to control people so well.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Yes I like that phrase…we were never the ones who were wrong to trust. It puts the onus on us all to tell the truth. Isn’t that the way it should be? I do wonder if the prevelance of contradiction in our lives is part of the satanic influence. I recall one of Roberts articles about the normalisation of homosexuality so that the unacceptable becomes the acceptable, and those that disagree are unacceptable. There is no longer a standard by which to gauge righteousness, therefore the lie is yet further disguised.

            • Huldah

              Exaaaaactly
              “the normalization of homosexuality”
              The normalization of what is wrong in general.
              I absolutely guarantee you that is what’s happening.
              I think Alex mentioned that we can’t trust we have to be on guard using our discernment.

              It’s true, but this world has normalized deception so that you have to be on constant guard not to be deceived or cheated. This is not normal. We’re not wrong to feel we should be able to trust others. It just feels like we are suckers for doing so because we are so used to deception.

              Case in point….Amazon
              I have to help one of my family members checkout online because Amazon is deliberately deceptive to force you to pay for shipping when you qualify for free shipping by automatically putting in a charge. You have to manually change it.

              Then….In order to check out at all you have to come to a screen where They try to trick you to join a monthly membership every time. You have to click on a button that says”No [I’m stupid] I don’t want free fast shipping dont make me a member”

              Then you can get to the check out page.

              This is not normal. We’re used to it though.

            • you can call Amazon and do the orders over the phone. that mite help avoid the tricky stuff

        • Craig Knight

          I too was very proud of WT teaching especially the chronology of 1914. I had a bible study with a Hawaiian couple and I was so proud to teach them what I thought was brilliant work. It saddens me when I think about teaching them lies. But at the same time I know they have at least basic truth’s in their lives. They had a daughter her name was Kanani, she was just a baby when I met them. She died very young from Lupus disease. She was still in her early teen years. I do know that the truth about the resurrection comforted them so I am happy about that. We are truth seekers on this site and sometimes we disagree on minor points and bump heads once in awhile but at least we learn new things and sharpen each others swords. No happy clappers here lol! I know that you have been thru terrible things and here you are still seeking God and truth. You are a good example for all of us here to never give up. I always enjoy your comments.

      • The Raven

        You may find this as eye opening as I did. I used to believe what the WT said about the dead who returned. After my brother and I were both widowed/ widowers(? ) this didn’t set well with me until I read this article from Robert. There are all kinds of gems scattered throughout this site!
        https://e-watchman.com/last-watchtower-comes-around-sort/

        • Huldah

          Good article.
          I have always thought the reply he gave applied to the heavenly resurrection.
          I couldn’t get past why he didn’t answer the question about the earthly resurrection, though.
          It’s actually a good example of how we don’t waste our time arguing with hardheads or answering their staged questions.

          • The Raven

            lol. I need to remember that one. He basically gave them exactly what they deserved, not what they wanted. When I first studied with them this was what they told me, that the dead would be like the angels. They explained they would be different from us. I thought… well, how is this going to work? I realized til death do you part for many like me but what about all the rest? Are they all going to live alone forever? Since I didn’t know any better, I sadly accepted this for decades and to be honest I can see how it magnifies someone’s grief. Especially for a child. It’s great to know this isn’t so. These are the sorts of things I have found here and they aren’t small matters or curiosities about ancient peoples. No. These are substantial and uplifting. Some have been very personal to me especially knowing about those who go to the grave at the hands of the horsemen and individuals inside or outside who know and love Jehovah and follow the Christ as the example. Well, try to, anyway.

            • Huldah

              I like that…
              “What they deserved not what they wanted”
              I’ve got a lot of people I need to apply that principle to.

        • Craig Knight

          Raven – I have been itching to get into this subject! My oldest son and I started reading the Bible on our own and when we come across scriptures that don’t make any sense or a red flag pops up as the WT teaches, we really dig into it. This resurrection understanding always sounded off to me also. Why? Because it works against God’s purpose for mankind to have a mate. Why would Jesus go against Jehovah’s wishes for couples to be married? I told my son that Jesus often spoke way over the questioner’s heads because He knew their heart condition. I came to the exact same conclusion King did. This is very encouraging. I saved Kings article on my computer. I told my sister once after her husband died and after our father passed from cancer. I said so what will Dad and your husband be doing in the new system, play chess all day and be lonely with no mate? This is one explanation the WT got way wrong. Thanks a ton for sharing Kings article.

    • Huldah

      This is true. I kept digging, while in the org, and found the real truth, despite NEVER allowing myself to read anything but WT literature. I walked away because the blatant abuses and apostasy of the local elders and then my knowledge of the real truth grew.

      Early on, I noticed that the literature printed after the 80’s became increasingly distorted and overly simplistic. I gravitated toward older publications for more solid spiritual food. For years I read stuff from the 50s and 60s and delved deeper into the Bible. I think this is a way I was being led to the truth while still trapped in the org. For a while, after I left, I only read the Bible and commentaries on Bible Hub, but it was getting clearer. Ewatchman seemed to be the only place attempting to answer the questions I was asking. Hey,the light does get brighter and brighter, HA HA.

  • Easach of Coimbatore

    Right from the beginning Satan wants to poke his nose into Jehovah’s worship so that Messiah should not appear an old agenda of Satan because it will be the same Messiah who will kill Satan. I have written an article Hurdles for Messiah why?The start of calf worship and sex cult through Moabite women in the days of Moses and the introduction of idol worship by Solomon’s wives and by Jeroboam, Rehoboam, Ahab, Manasseh was actually the influence of Satan’s influence on Jehovah’s people. The same in true now, the teaching of 1914 and the 10 years affiliation of the wts with UN and free Masonic sublime images in the wts magazine is actually the modern day Satan’s influence on Jehovah’s people. But the wts is so cocksure that Jesus cleaned back in the year 1918/1919.

  • Easach of Coimbatore

    So I was in convention from 8-10th, but I heard two outright lies still preached they said in the concluding talk that there in no another world war going to take place and the Anglo American world power will still exist during the destruction of Babylon the great.

    I never saw that there is no indication of Eight king who will be in power who actually destroy Babylon the great.
    He also explained Daniel:12:2-3 and said it happened in the year 1919. I just got up and went to eat biscuits. Later joined to concluding song and prayer

    • Huldah

      It think the whole congregation could get up and eat biscuits, when they hear lies spoken from the platform! That might bring some Elders to their senses. What are biscuits like in India? I’m thinking they are different than what we have here at Kentucky Fried Chicken. Now I’m hungry. Lol.

      • Easach of Coimbatore

        Yes we have parle biscuits with different varieties. We have biscuits made by ITC company, Unilever company. So some Indian companies have come up with products of biscuits that don’t have emulsifiers which is found in every biscuits made by illuminati companies that causes chrons disease and colon cancers. Thus we have indegenious company made cashew biscuits, we have cumin sprinkled wheat biscuits and cookies biscuits made of almond, pistachio nuts but no preservateries but shelf life is less compared to the biscuits made by illuminaties.but the biscuits which I ate was made by my wife using unrefined wheat flour unrefined dark colored organic sugar and country eggs whose expiry date is only 3 days.

        • Huldah

          Sounds good. Especially the cashew biscuits. I have to get your wife’s recipe for fried chicken. The Costa Ricans make amazing fried chicken. We got it three times and even carried some home in a plastic bag for an hour on a bus and it was still almost as good as fresh the next day! Would love to hear more of your commentary on the Convention.

    • Alex Henrique

      I have not attended conventions and assemblies for four years. But I go to meetings occasionally. And the same with regard to the preaching service. But I want be regular in both aspects, meetings and preaching service.
      Is it true that they applied Daniel 12: 2,3 to 1919? I can not believe … And the sequence of previous events is irrelevant? Is not the angel since chapter 11 saying things in chronological sequence?

      • Easach of Coimbatore

        Yes brother really they connected that to 1919. By the by brother who are u where are u from. I like to know more about you. I extend my love and affection to u and your family. I am Easach from India Coimbatore South India I am a born jw. I will give my mail contact easajw@gmail.com. May Jehovah bless u and love u through Jesus you have searched the truth otherwise you would have not been here.

  • zakdude1000

    “The organization is considered to be the infallible mouthpiece of God.”

    Hahahahahaha no no they’re not, only a handful of the daft witnesses think that.

    • anyone who questions the Watchtower or rightly points out the lies and errors from the organization is looked down upon and are either expelled from the congregation as apostate or shunned or marginalized and punished in some way.

      “only a handful”?

      Revelation 8:10-11 – “And the third angel blew his trumpet: And a great star burning as a lamp fell from heaven and it fell upon a third of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters. And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters, because these had been made bitter.”

      Jeremiah 9:15-16 – “Here I am making them, that is, this people, eat wormwood, and I will make them drink poisoned water; and I will scatter them among the nations that neither they nor their fathers have known, and I will send after them the sword until I shall have exterminated them.”

      • zakdude1000

        Again false. I question things all the time, and point out “holes in logic” all the time, and either a) get a logical answer or b) agree to wait for it to be sorted out later down the line (as many adjustments have fixed “holes” or completely removed a hole by getting the correct understanding). Now if i was to get on the platform and start teaching my own schpeel, or to go around each congregation member voicing some frustrations, i would be labelled apostate. I would be going against 1 Corinthians 1:10, not to mention 1 Corinthians 14:33 and not to mention Jude 8 and 9.

        Its not what you say its how you say it, coupled with intentions that gets you labelled as Apostate.

        • “again faults”?

          explain why its faults and point out the “holes” in the logic.

          why just wait for an answer after the scriptures answer has already been written for us to know with honest effort and personal prayer? – James 1:5. 1-Cor 3:7. why teach your own “schpeel” and not instead what the bible teaches? 1-Cor 4:6.

          “voicing some frustrations” is not an act of apostasy. 1-Peter 3:15

          when someone speaks the truth honestly and Another does not accept it because the truth the One is speaking does not come from the Watchtower “mother” and then is shunned, cast-out then labeled Apostate for obeying Jehovah in truth, who is causing divisions and disorder? Matt 10:34 Hosea 4:5 Zechariah 11:17

          i will mention that Jehovah is not a God of disorder but a God of peace and i too will say may Jehovah rebuke those who speak abusively of glorious ones and rebuke anyone eating people’s flesh and striping off their skin and breaking their bones and chopping them up like meat for the cooking pot. Jer ch23. Ez ch34. Micah ch3.

          the Watchtower’s “many adjustments” have never all been “correct” understanding” for the obvious reason the same subjects have been proven wrong repeatedly and continually changed for never being “new light” in the first place. even C.T. Russell was smart enough to know “new light cannot contradict old light”. Isaiah 28:20 2-Peter 1:20 Deuteronomy 18:22 Isaiah 29:10 Jeremiah 23:21

          for example, the current ‘new light’ the WT teaches has been easily proven not to “originate with God” here – https://e-watchman.com/watchtower-review-for-jehovahs-witnesses-pt-1/ ,
          here – https://e-watchman.com/the-disgusting-thing-that-causes-desolation/ ,
          here – https://e-watchman.com/regarding-times-and-seasons/ ,
          here – https://e-watchman.com/part-4-july-watchtower-review-for-jehovahs-witnesses/
          and here – https://e-watchman.com/wt-review/ because to “test everything that is said” (1-John 4:1. 1-Thessalonians 5:21) includes all that is published by the Watchtower and any righteous person will recognize the truth unless you dont really “question things all the time”. Acts 17:11.

          it is what you say, weather it be a lie or truth. so then its not just how you hear it but how you listen before labelling someone an Apostate. 1-Corinthians 4:5 Proverbs 18:13-23

          https://e-watchman.com/forums/main-forum/

          • zakdude1000

            No its False* not “Faults” and regarding- “anyone who questions the Watchtower or rightly points out the lies and errors from the organization is looked down upon”, and i was explaining why that’s false from my own experiences. Pointing out holes in the literature.

            And with the voicing of frustrations you’ve missed my point. It’s not what you say or voice, its how you go about voicing it, as preceded my statement “go around each congregation member”.

            No one i have met has ever fully taught what the bible teaches. People might have some truths but always go into study with their own ideas which skews their understanding, it would be foolishness to assume one has all the correct answers. But in my experience, the watchtower has the most right, more than anyone else. And they always seek to have more right, unlike the rest. You’ll note 1 Peter 3 (which you already cited) also mentions having “Unity in mind” or “Thinking in agreement” in verse 8. Also emphasized in Philippians 2:2. If you go about teaching what you think to be the correct interpretation in a disorderly way, then you are the one being disorderly, the fault is with you. Not the elders or the biblically based organisational policy. As i said, i question things all the time, and no one bats an eye lid, and if i disagree, i still stick with speaking in unity. If the interpretation i have found is correct, then leave it with Jehovah and he will have it revealed in his own time, if it is not right then either they have it right, or the correct interpretation remains to be scripturally connected. Disorder is a mark of apostates, unity is a mark of true Christians (John 17:21).

            and idk what you’re on about with “labeled Apostate for obeying Jehovah in truth”, the links from here you’ve cited are strictly about upcoming events and have no baring on your obedience at present, you still have to preach, study, go to meetings, pray and live by the bibles moral standards. Those future events have no baring on what actions are required for obedience in the present. Yes, be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the present. No, not all adjustments have been correct, but they’ve always pointed slightly more in the right direction (look at the neutrality issue for example), there’s always been one small point of value to be taken away, even if the conclusion is wrong. What matters is that they are seeking truth, and if something is wrong, then Jehovah will correct it in his own time, but by going rogue you’re not doing anyone any favors, you undermine other peoples faiths (who could then go on to leave seeking truth all together, they rarely join in going rogue) which could result in their blood on your hands, all because you choose to break the command to be united. There’s a difference between tolerating a mistake in understanding and believing a “Lie”. The brothers writing the articles have no intention to lie to people or mislead people, but that doesn’t mean they, or the GB won’t make mistakes in understanding which come through in the literature. But I’ve never known anything go from being right to being wrong, only things wrong going gradually to being right.

            But again, being labelled as apostate comes from how you go about disagreeing. If even the slightest hint of intention to cause mass dissension is detected then it will lead to it.

          • zakdude1000

            No its False* not “Faults” and regarding- “anyone who questions the Watchtower or rightly points out the lies and errors from the organization is looked down upon”, and i was explaining why that’s false from my own experiences. Pointing out holes in the literature.
            And with the voicing of frustrations you’ve missed my point. It’s not what you say or voice, its how you go about voicing it, as preceded my statement “go around each congregation member”.
            No one i have met has ever fully taught what the bible teaches. People might have some truths but always go into study with their own ideas which skews their understanding, it would be foolishness to assume one has all the correct answers. But in my experience, the watchtower has the most right, more than anyone else. And they always seek to have more right, unlike the rest. You’ll note 1 Peter 3 (which you already cited) also mentions having “Unity in mind” or “Thinking in agreement” in verse 8. Also emphasized in Philippians 2:2. If you go about teaching what you think to be the correct interpretation in a disorderly way, then you are the one being disorderly, the fault is with you. Not the elders or the biblically based organisational policy. As i said, i question things all the time, and no one bats an eye lid, and if i disagree, i still stick with speaking in unity. If the interpretation i have found is correct, then leave it with Jehovah and he will have it revealed in his own time, if it is not right then either they have it right, or the correct interpretation remains to be scripturally connected. Disorder is a mark of apostates, unity is a mark of true Christians (John 17:21).
            and idk what you’re on about with “labeled Apostate for obeying Jehovah in truth”, the links from here you’ve cited are strictly about upcoming events and have no baring on your obedience at present, you still have to preach, study, go to meetings, pray and live by the bibles moral standards. Those future events have no baring on what actions are required for obedience in the present. Yes, be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the present. No, not all adjustments have been correct, but they’ve always pointed slightly more in the right direction (look at the neutrality issue for example), there’s always been one small point of value to be taken away, even if the conclusion is wrong. What matters is that they are seeking truth, and if something is wrong, then Jehovah will correct it in his own time, but by going rogue you’re not doing anyone any favors, you undermine other peoples faiths (who could then go on to leave seeking truth all together, they rarely join in going rogue) which could result in their blood on your hands, all because you choose to break the command to be united. There’s a difference between tolerating a mistake in understanding and believing a “Lie”. The brothers writing the articles have no intention to lie to people or mislead people, but that doesn’t mean they, or the GB won’t make mistakes in understanding which come through in the literature. But I’ve never known anything go from being right to being wrong, only things wrong going gradually to being right.
            But again, being labelled as apostate comes from how you go about disagreeing. If even the slightest hint of intention to cause mass dissension is detected then it will lead to it.

            • Beverly kenyon

              ??

  • Sharon

    I don’t know how any of you can refer to this organization and the word truth in the same sentence.from the very beginning,right down to this day,it is nothing more than a publishing company.if you just take a look at its very foundation,you know the very thing every doctrine is built upon today,it is obsurd.if you don’t believe me please do some research.charles t Russell was an occultist,and was worshiped just like wbts today.the date setting nonsence began using pyramidology.and Rutherford and his beth serim nonsence and drinking,he was a joke.all of them right to today living in luxury.just take a look at those seven men today,if you think Jehovah,and his son could look upon them with favor,either I’m crazy or you guys see something completely different than I do.

    • Richard Long

      I, for one, do not think you are crazy. However, many here are not yet seeing past our exclusivity delusion. Bear with us, please.

      To your first point, corporations are empires, empires are satanic constructs, all satanic constructs exist for the separation of humans from the love of their Heavenly Father by one means or another.

      And yet, Jehovah does use the constructs of his adversary as it pleases him to accomplish his own purposes. I wonder if Jehovah takes a corresponding satisfaction in the irony of that turnabout to the consternation it no doubt causes his rebellious son? Maybe not. Seems to me a God of such good character might actually even still lament the loss of all his (previously) holy angels that have forsaken Him and have no hope for reconciliation (if that is the case) as do his human sons. What heavy loss our Heavenly Father has had to endure!

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