What about the 144,000 and 12 tribes?

//What about the 144,000 and 12 tribes?

QUESTION: The seventh chapter of Revelation tells us that the 144,000 are taken from the 12 tribes of Israel —12,000 from each tribe. What do you believe these 12 tribes represent and what does the selection of 144k from these tribes indicate? What of those who are not taken and when does this selection take place?

When God made a covenant with Abraham he stated that all the nations would gain a blessing through Abraham’s offspring. Abraham’s grandson was Jacob, whom God renamed Israel. Jacob had 12 sons who became the family heads of the 12 tribes of Israel.

When the Messiah appeared he also selected 12 apostles —an obvious replication of the original 12 sons of Israel. Thus, that is when the selection first began. (Technically, it didn’t begin until they were anointed) Peter, one of those original apostles, likened Jesus’ anointed followers to a holy nation. In his letter to the Galatians Paul referred to them as the real seed of Abraham and referred to the congregation as “the Israel of God.” The true sons of Abraham are those with faith in Jesus. The Christian writer James (not the apostle) sent his greetings to the “12 tribes scattered about.” His greeting was not to the literal Jews, but to anointed Christians.

The 12 tribes of the Israel of God, then, symbolize the various congregations that are scattered about all during the entire Christian era up until the last ones are sealed. In fact, the seventh chapter of Revelation portrays that very thing, with an angel saying: “‘Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.’ And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel…”

Everyone called and chosen has to be sealed. That means before their death God must either approve them for life in the Kingdom of the heavens, or not. But during the conclusion the sealing takes place in mass, while all the remaining ones are alive. In other words, God approves them for entry into the Kingdom prior to their deaths and they will know it. That is when the calling and selecting is concluded. 

After the sealing that is when the revealing of the sons of God will take place. And upon their deaths they are changed in the twinkling of an eye from human nature to spirit.

The 14th chapter presents the 144,000 in a different way, not as individual tribes, but as one group joined with the Lamb in Mount Zion —singing a new song that no one else could master but them. The reason for the difference is that the 12 tribes symbolize the chosen ones before they begin ruling with Christ; whereas, the vision of the 144,000 standing on Mount Zion represents the completed Kingdom.

However, that is not to say that the remaining ones of the offspring of the woman are actually all in heaven at that time. But their sealing guarantees their admission. They have a place reserved for them. The reason God leaves them on earth is so that Satan may induce his brood to kill them. And once the sons of the Kingdom are killed God will be fully justified in destroying the world, because the things done to the brothers of Christ is the same as if done directly to Christ himself. The world will become guilty of murdering Jesus. Thus, the seed of the woman will then crush the head of the serpent by blotting the Devil’s evil world out of existence and hurling the demons into the abyss.

Both the 7th and 14th chapters of Revelation reveal that others besides the 144,000 will receive salvation. That is why the 144,000 are called “the first fruits.” Those who recognize and support the revealed sons of God will make up the great crowd that survive the great tribulation.

2016-12-03T11:30:15+00:00 December 3rd, 2016|Mailbag|105 Comments
  • Bobby 6343

    Thank you Bro. Your hard work is very much appreciated! This is so easy to comprehend.

  • Joseph Stephan

    Refreshing to see real truths, and inspiring!!

  • Burt Reynolds

    Hello Robert, how then are we recognise and support the annointed. What are we to do? Every act of aliegence in the bible has required a demonstration of proof of heart both from the giver and the receiver, from sacrificing a son, or the intent to, to the healing of a servant.

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi Burt, I have been visiting this site for about a year now and I don’t normally make any replies. i am not a baptised witness but have studied with them in the past. Your question is something I have thought about. I imagine they will be easily recognisable as their faces will shine brightly. Will they be approachable , I imagine they will be very busy informing many people about their impending judgement as their message will not be one of hope. You ask Robert the question. I have ready many of your posts , so let me ask you the same question. It’s bound to be informative and just in case you are wondering I am asking in all sincerity.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Hello Jamie, thanks for your reply and nice of you to drop in. Welcome. Yes I am sure they will be recognisable by their shining faces but Robert said those who recognise and support, which suggests to me something is required. Aliegence to Jehovah is an important factor and to show it, otherwise it would not be said. I appreciate you asking me the question, but I don’t have the answer as I am not annointed and do not have even an inkling of what is required. Though I would think the answer lies in spiritual issues, as would be due those who would be chosen to rule with Christ. Also, the support I would imagine at this time, would be what we are doing now….ergo, meeting together, asking questions, increasing our spiritual knowledge and making the necessary changes in our lives to live within that knowledge and practice it. Added to that would be the witnessing work and supporting the site how we can by sharing with others. However, it never occurred to me that their may be an obligation in support of the chosen ones that we need render or what that may be, or even what form it would take. Will they be approachable? Well, the scriptures mention taking hold of the skirt of the Jew and acknowledging their holy role and knowledge. The suggestion is therefore to grab ahold of their significance, what they represent. If they are going to be used as vessels to speak with kings and leaders, then one would assume an authority, yet also, the scriptures indicate that they will have a full understanding of Jehovah’s love and so you are right, they would be approachable probably in ways that we and they do not know about yet, or feel. Were that not he case, what would be the point of it all? But as I said, I don’t know. This is conjecture. I just asked the question and hope for insight. Anyway, don’t stay away another year. Come and drink life’s waters free here. Welcome.

        • rajan

          Hi Burt

          I think it is as stated in the 25th chapter of Matthew – to feed them, give water when thirsty,
          Clothe them when naked and visit them and attend to them in prison and in any other way we could help the brothers of Christ. This is especially so as the last King’s men would be hunting them down

          Rgds

          Rajan

          • Burt Reynolds

            Thanks Rajan. Helpful.

    • 1914for100Alex

      I’m guessing helping them won’t be the most popular thing to do. I think that’s where part of the challenge for the rest of us will come in. Will we be selfish and only worry about our own well being, or will we risk persecution ourselves to feed and clothe them? Seems like a no brainer right now, but things are going to be a lot different then. Who knows what the penalties of getting caught will be? Prison? Death? Torture? I can sit here and say the choice is easy (and that is how I feel) but the reality is none of us know for certain how we’ll react when we’re faced with those decisions. That is where our faith is really going to come in. Knowing that helping them, come what may, is the right thing to do. That regardless of the repercussions, we know Jehovah will reward us for enduring through it.

      Revelation 21:8 mentions “But as for the cowards…” Could that be a reference to those that could have helped, but chose not to? Things don’t end well for the “cowards”, so I’m thinking it’s a pretty good idea to go all in no matter what 🙂

      • Burt Reynolds

        Good. Thanks for that.

      • Arvid Fløysand

        Very good point..it reminds me of how it went out when Jesus was arrested…the apostles was scared and most of them ran away…they was not really able to support him like they knew in their mind and hart that they should…and what about this man called Simon who was forced by the romans to carry the torturestake for Jesus?

        • Peter

          It all comes down to fear of God or fear of man, so worth strengthing ourselves today while time remains. But like Arvid said, the apostles were scared so the last empire will be a fearsome beast just like the Roman empire was. It’s good think about these things and prepare emotionally and mentally.

        • 1914for100Alex

          Thanks Arvid. Nice to meet you. It’s good to see so many people that have just been reading along finally join in the conversation.

      • Peaceful Waters

        Well put Alex. Agreed.

    • DA

      part answer John 13:35

      • Burt Reynolds

        Yes you’re right DA, love amongst themselves….ourselves. So obvious, I should have known…had to look it up though. The other replies have been helpful too, about caring for their situation and circumstances. I think all in all it is an extension as to what we are told to do between us as Christians. Thank you.

        • DA

          yeah
          Rev 6:6 1-Kings 17:14-16

          https://e-watchman.com/brothers-christ/

          “At one point Elijah went to Sidon and a non-Jewish woman gave him her last bit of food. As a result of her support for Jehovah’s prophet she was miraculously provided with flour and oil and her son was resurrected. In other words, she and her son were saved for doing good to God’s persecuted servant —a pattern of the sheep who will receive God’s blessing for supporting Christ’s brothers during their tribulation.”

    • msbwhitfield1

      Hello Burt Reynolds and all,
      The way of the Most High is to show kindness and love to all. All of us who have clothed ourselves with Christ belong to Him. Therefore, we are brothers and sisters in Christ (Matt 12:48-50) So, we should be helping one another. If you know someone who believes and has faith in Christ Jesus and they need help then God expects you to help them. Your deeds will be recorded in God’s book of life.

      The scriptures do not teach helping the anointed vs not helping the anointed, yada, yada. And anyone who is anointed with God’s spirit would not even think to take advantage of others money, assets or other resources. Those who are anointed have the mindset of Christ , which is humility (Phillipians 2:1-10) and that of service ( Matt. 20:28). Please , think deeply about what you know of God’s love. Do you really think He would support such a teaching?? Didn’t Jesus himself say love your enemies and pray for them??

      Please don’t worry just have faith. Keep praying to God earnestly and do not give up. Keep asking to be strengthened and He will make you strong.

      May the peace and love that Christ Jesus gives be with you and all of your family~~ take care!!

      • Bklyn Kevin

        msbwhitfied In your statement to Burt Reynolds a day ago you said

        (“anyone who is anointed with God’s spirit would not even think to take advantage of others money,)

        For sure we know this statement you made is not true because Judas Iscariot was certainly anointed and Jesus had chosen him yet Judas Iscariot did take advantage and sold Jesus out for 30 pieces of silver.
        Yet you said”anyone who is anointed with God’s spirit would not even think to
        “take advantage” of others money.
        So who are we supposed to believe you or what the scriptures say???

        Matthew 26:15
        Then one of the twelve, the one called Judas Is·car′i·ot, went to the chief priests and said: “What will YOU give me to betray him to YOU?” They stipulated to him thirty silver pieces.

        Also what did you mean when you said
        (“The scriptures do not teach helping the anointed vs not helping the anointed,)
        Could you please clarify this statement as to what you meant. I would greatly appreciate it thank you

        • msbwhitfield1

          Good Morning Bkyln Kevin,

          That’s a great question. I apologize for not being clear in my writing. I was given the gift of prophecy, yet sometimes, I admit my writing can lack sufficient detail. But, I’m going to do my best to be as explicitly clear as possible in my response to you.

          The statement I made to you is true. The Holy Spirit was poured out on the 11 Apostles on the Day of Pentecost. Judas Iscariot was no longer alive by that time( Matthew 27:1-10) So, then how could Judas have had the Holy Spirit? Paul received the Holy Spirit when Ananias laid his hands on him( Acts 9:17).

          To answer your question with the scriptures, I start with Isaiah:

          In Isaiah chapter 5: 9-10, Jehovah explains to Isaiah the following:
          “Go, say to these people : Keep listening, but do not understand; keep looking, but do not perceive. Dull the hearts (Strong’s 3824) of these people ; deafen their ears and blind their eyes; otherwise they might see with their eyes and hear with their ears, understand with their hearts (Strong’s 3824), turn back, and be healed.”
          The scripture is part of a prophecy that tells us that we, all mankind, are walking the path that Jehovah has designated for us. Not one of us can resist his will. Therefore, if God has designated you to walk in darkness, by making your heart dull( hardened) and closing your eyes and ears, then that will happen, by whatever means He wants. The opposite is also true, such as in the case with the Apostles. Remember, the account in Matthew chapter 13 regarding the reason why Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, yet He explained everything to His chosen ones. The answer is in Matt. 13:11, “Moreover answering, He said to them, Because to you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of the heavens, to them,however it has not been granted.”
          Therefore, we are all walking the path that God has designated for us, and as such, whether, an individual knows it or not, is fulfilling Bible prophecy. Jesus stated the following:
          Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away (Matt. 24:35)
          and again Jesus stated,
          ” …Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms” (Luke 24:44)

          Now, we have the basis for understanding why Judas, although chosen, by Jesus did what he did.

          John 13:2 states: ” Now by the time of supper, the Devil had already put it into the HEART of Judas, Simon Iscariot’s son, to betray Him.”

          John 13:10 says: ” One who has bathed, Jesus told him, doesn’t need to wash anything except his feet, but he is completely clean. You are clean, but NOT all of you. For He knew who would betray Him. This is why He said, You are not all clean.”

          Luke 24:49, “And look, I am sending you what My Father promised . As for you stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

          Acts1:4, ” On one occasion, while He was eating with them, He gave them this command: Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.”

          Acts1: 13, “when they had entered [the city], they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is PETER, JOHN AND JAMES AND ANDREW, PHILLIP AND THOMAS, BARTHOLOMEW AND MATTHEW, JAMES OF ALPHAEUS AND SIMON THE ZEALOT AND JUDAS [the son ] OF JAMES.

          Now go to Acts 2:1-3,
          ” When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2) And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole housewhere they were sitting… Verse 4, And THEY WERE ALL FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT…

          Thus, you can see that Judas Iscariot was not with the other apostles in the upper room , where they received the Holy Spirit. He was chosen in order to fulfill prophecy because God had already laid out his path for him and he did exactly what he was supposed to do in order for God’s words to come true.

          The scriptures , further tell us that those who have the Holy Spirit will not continue to sin because the Spirit of God lives in them. This is one of the main points the Apostle John made in 1 John 3: 1-24.
          Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness(1 John 3:4).
          Remember, what the law is for us, who have faith, It is to love one another(John 13:34-35).
          Therefore, those with the Holy Spirit, will act in love in all that they do and say. As Galatians tells us, this is one of the fruits of the spirit.
          Thus, by our actions and our words, it will be evident if a person has the Holy Spirit or not. Jesus illustrated this point to us in 7:17-15-20 when He spoke about how to recognize a false prophet. A good tree can only produce good fruit and a bad tree can only produce bad fruit. Because a persons actions and words come from their HEART. Receiving the Holy Spirit means that God, our Father, has sent the Spirit of His son into our HEARTS (Galations 4:6). And those with the Holy Spirit are to walk (Galatians5:16) and live by it and not grieve The Holy Spirit.

          Having said this, I hope I have elaborated on my statement a little bit better and it is clear for you.

          Also, I’m not sure how much longer I will be on this website. So, I’m giving you my email address, msbwhitfield@gmail.com, if you would like to continue to discuss the scriptures in a respectful and kind manner. I extend this invitation to anyone reading this post.

          FYI, I’m going to respond to your 2nd question in another post.

          Talk to you soon,
          Much kindness, peace and many blessings to you.

          B.

          • Bklyn Kevin

            msbwhitfield quote:

            (“anyone who is “anointed” with God’s spirit would not even think to take advantage of others money,)

            You’re right Judas Iscariot was not at the Pentecost when the holy spirit was poured out and in fact was no longer alive. That much is correct.

            However Judas Iscariot was still anointed in fact he was personally chosen by Jesus.

            Nonetheless Judas Iscariot although being anointed still took advantage by selling out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver and you claimed anyone being anointed would not even think to take advantage of others money

            Yet Judas Iscariot most certainly did take advantage although being anointed so in reality your Original statement is half true – thus misleading and I’m not saying that you are doing this deliberately but nonetheless you are doing it and I know the reason why however I want to see if you can figure it out after all bible study is good for the spirit.

            I will give you a clue-being anointed is not exactly the same as having the blessings of GODS holy spirit. There is a difference.

            P.S. Also in your long winded comment you’re promoting predestination which is associated with the teachings of St. Augustine of Hippo and of Calvin,which contradicts what the bible actually teaches concerning freedom of choice.

            But we will leave that for another discussion as it is a deep topic and requires a great deal of research.

          • Cocheta

            One thing that concerns me about what you wrote, Ms Whitfield, is that you claim to have been given the gift of prophecy. Have you not read the Scriptures at 1 Cor 13 :2, 8-10?
            In Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians he shows that the miraculous gifts, including that of inspired prophesying, were due to be done away with. The evidence is that with the death of the apostles these gifts ceased to be transmitted & thereafter passed off the Christian scene, having served their purpose.

            Also, it seems strange to me, that in one of your comments on the AvoidJWs site you stated that – to quote ” And last year, it happened in October when God answered my prayers
            (by talking to me) and sent His Holy Spirit to help me. He has been with me ever since.
            He has been helping me endure , and helping me understand the scriptures and tells me what lies ahead.”

            Whilst I don’t disagree with you that our God helps us to endure, I cannot in all honesty believe that God spoke directly with you or He has told you what lies ahead.

            Yet another instance where one of your comments confuses me is, again on the AvoidJWs site, you state “The deception is this: they changed the scripture from “earth being finite “to “earth being infinite” in order to support their teaching of paradise on earth( this one) forever.
            This, doctrine, is not scriptural.
            Revelation chapter 21 and 22, state that heaven and earth will pass away because God has created a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness is to dwell. And God’s holy city comes down from heaven onto earth in the near future.” …………..
            Do you really think that Jehovah is going to create another earth for us all, when He has expressly created the earth to last forever & the sole purpose in the creation of the earth was to have humankind live on it forever?

            What would be the point of destroying this perfect home only to create another – Ps 78:69; 104:5; 119:90; Ec 1:4.

            It isn’t the earth which has sinned against Jehovah, but the whole of humankind itself, surely.

            From a purely logical point of view to create a whole new heavens & earth would require a massive amount of work when you consider the perfect way the existing ones including the entire universe are created. Despite that would be a very small job to Jehovah it would prove self defeating, would it not!

            I would be very interested to hear more of your feelings in these regards.

            • 1914for100Alex

              Your comment reminds me of Jesus’ warning about false prophets. No doubt some of these will be people that really believe what they are saying. Ms. Whitfield should take your advice and read what Paul had to say to the Corinthians, as well as taking the advice given in 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Mark 13:6
              Many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and will mislead many.
              Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.
              Matthew 7:15.

            • Burt Reynolds

              They are going to have to be a lot sharper than these current jokers! I had another Trinitarian today who was all for Christ raising himself from the dead. He was an ex JW too. Reminds me of the scripture, a dog returning to its vomit. Not that he was a dog of course, but the illustration is correct!

            • Cocheta

              I almost quoted that, Alex, but thought I would wait for a response from Ms Whitfield 😉

            • Arvid Fløysand

              you are swinging your “sword” very elegant and with a nice touch my dear sister..you deserve a lot more than rips with yogurt for breakfast 🙂

            • Cocheta

              tusen takk for det, bror

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Double “POW”. Wonderfully informative thank you Cocheta.

              Ezekiel 13:8-9 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “‘Because you have spoken what is false and your visions are a lie, I am against you,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. My hand is against the prophets whose visions are false and who foretell a lie” Read more>

              https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/ezekiel/13/#v26013008

        • msbwhitfield1

          Hi again Bkyln Kevin,

          I said in another post, in response to Burt Reynolds post, the following:
          ” The scriptures do not teach helping the anointed vs. not helping the anointed,”

          You would like me to clarify so I’m going to try to be as clear as possible.

          When I spoke these words, I was thinking of the Jesus and the Apostle Paul’s teaching, which are synonymous, that address who we are in relation to one another ( I’m speaking about the entire “ekklesia”). By “ekklesia”, I am referring to the whole congregation of believers, who have been called out of this world and to Jehovah. In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Jesus tells John to write on a scroll what he sees and send it to the seven congregations. If you look up the word congregations on the Interlinear Bible, you will find that it has a Strong’s number of 1577. This number gives you the original Greek word used in the manuscripts. The word is “ekklesia” is a word derived from the compound “ek” and a derivative of “kaleo” which together means “a calling out”. You can read the rest using Strong’s exhaustive concordance or use Helps word studies.
          I included this background information because I wanted you to have a solid understanding of who I am talking about when I say believers. So, to restate, those who believe in God, have been called out of this world and to Him, and therefore make up the”ekklesia” spoken about in the scriptures. Because God has called us out of this world and to Him, the effect of this calling is holiness. Here is what the scriptures say:

          –1 Corinthians 1:2-4, ” to the “ekklesia (Strong’s 1577)” of God, being in Corinth, having been sanctified (Strong’s 37-meaning to make holy) in Christ Jesus, called holy( Strong’s 40) TOGETHER WITH ALL THOSE calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, in every place, both theirs and ours. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and Lord Jesus Christ-(Interlinear Bible).”

          –2 Timothy 1:9, 10 “He has saved us and called us to a holy (Strong’s 40) life– not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel (NIV).

          1 Thessalonians 4:7, ” For God did not call us to be impure , but to live a holy life.”

          Ephesians 1:1, ” Paul an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus”

          Ephesians 1:13, ” And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. WHEN YOU BELIEVED YOU WERE MARKED IN HIM WITH A SEAL, THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT,”

          1 Corinthians 15: 1-8 explains what the good news is.
          __________________________________________________________
          So, then, as the scriptures point out we, the “ekklesia” have all been called to Jehovah to be holy through our believing (faith) in the good news of Christ, and when we believed, we received the free gift of the Holy Spirit. All of this was given to us because of God’s great love and mercy.

          Therefore, there is no division among us. This point is illustrated very well in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 when Paul speaks about the body of Christ.

          By our faith and baptism by the spirit (verse13) we are all members of Christ Body and there is is only 1 Body (verse 12). As members of Christ, we have the same concern for each other (verse 25), so if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if Ken member is honored, all the members rejoice with it( verse 26). And just as a physical body has different parts and different function, likewise, so does the “ekklesia” of Christ(verses 27-31).

          Therefore, if you believe in Jesus Christ, as preached to you from the scriptures, then you received the Holy Spirit and have been called by God to be holy and have now become a member of his body. You also, received a gift from the spirit (1 Corinthians 12:1-11). And as members of Christ, we belong to Him and we treat one another with love (John 13:35). In our relationships with one another, we are to demonstrate humility (Phillipians 2:1-8) and the fruits of the Spirit mentioned in Galatians.

          Now, Paul makes a great point in 2 Corinthians chapter 13 regarding our faith.
          2 Corinthians speaks about those in the “ekklesia” who were seeking proof that Christ was speaking through him and they were also sinning, Paul says to them in chapter 13 verse 5-8, ” Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith. Examine yourselves. Or do you yourselves not recognize that Jesus Christ is in you? –UNLESS YOU FAIL THE TEST (Stongs # 96). Now we pray to God that you do nothing wrong– not that we may appear to pass the test, but that you may appear to do what is right, even though we appear to fail.”

          To simplify what Paul is saying here is that, walking in spirit begins with our faith. Which is why he said, test yourselves to see if you are in the faith. And our faith in Christ Jesus comes from our heart. What comes from our heart are either good fruits or bad fruits. If our heart is good we will produce good fruit (good actions and words) but if our heart is bad we will produce bad fruit ( bad actions and words). And although, he preached the good news to them, some of them had not believed with their heart and were therefore walking in the flesh and not in the Holy Spirit.

          Which is why I said, there is no anointed vs. non-anointed. Simply stated, an individual is either walking in flesh or walking in Spirit. If you are walking in flesh, then you do not belong to Christ. However, if you walk in Spirit then you do belong to Christ and are members of His body. This is what the Scriptures teach.

          I hope I have been clear, please let me know if I have not. And I’ll make another attempt to further clarify. Also, feel free to email me–

          Thanks! And I hope you have a great day!

          B.

          • Bklyn Kevin

            No you didn’t make yourself clear and you know what I heard enough,
            It’s apparent to me that you are using my question to you,
            as to take advantage so that you can teach your belief to me
            or who ever else may read this post.
            now with all due respect I’m not interested in your church doctrines so with that being said I conclude this conversation and without any answer from you but that’s OK you inadvertently told me what I needed to know.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I think there is a great insidious manner in the way this lady and free at last revel in their haughty teachings and mannerisms: cheaply condescending, divisive, full of contention, in fact, everything the scriptures revile as sly. And if you do not praise or agree with them, they speak in terms only of bitterness and haughty self righteousness, seeming to be kind, but crawling with hate masked under a transparent guise of mock love and ‘holy’ platitudes to engratiate themselves with those blind enough not to see their snears of disdain. What have they to offer? If this is their example, who would possibly want it or desire them as a neighbour?

            • Free at Last

              Burt, what are we to think of those strong words of judgment? The anger, the resentment, the fear which is copiously conveyed by your words is heart rending. What is it that seems to threaten you and to generate such an acrimonious diatribe?

              Could it be that you are carrying a heavy load of emotional baggage that you haven’t yet “let go of?” Do you not believe the words of the Holy Book, the Bible, which tell us that we must surely forgive all in order to be forgiven ourselves? That we must especially forgive those who we view as our enemies?

              You bring to mind many of my fellow witnesses from years past who seemed to be missing out on the peace and happiness of the Good News. Who really believed that they’d found Jehovah’s channel of communication but were, paradoxically, suffering from painful doubts and little faith.

              Our Father does cause those whom He loves to experience and endure numerous trials and difficulties in order that we may develop appreciation and compassion for all of our brothers and sisters who frequently disappoint us with their rude behaviors. To help us to understand that we must forgive because they know not what they do.

              It is true that the Son of Man did strongly rebuke the leadership of the Pharisees and the Money Changers in the Temple. He did so knowing that they would be the bane of humankind until the final days as they perform the work of Satan their master. To emphatically and prophetically alert Students of the Bible to their role in establishing the Kingdom of Satan, or the New World Order, prior to the Great Day of the Almighty Jehovah.

              But did he instruct his believers, who by the way lack his righteous abilities, to act in a similar manner? What does The Word tell us?

            • 1914for100Alex

              Still trying to plant seeds of doubt and give people complexes I see. I doubt this is the best Satan can do, but thanks for the practice run. NEXT!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Free at Last Burt Reynolds • 4 hours ago

              Free at last you are insinuating that Jehovah “Our Father does cause those whom He loves to experience and endure numerous trials and difficulties .

              Free at last that statement you made is clearly a lie in view of what the scriptures actually SAY.

              Please take note of what it SAYS in James 1:13

              “When under trial, let no one say:
              (I am being tried by God.)
              For with evil things God cannot be tried,
              (nor does he himself try anyone.)

              So it’s obvious you must be referring to your Father Satan the devil because the bible clearly states “For with evil things God cannot be tried,
              (nor does he himself try anyone).

              Then in James 1:14 it says “But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed (by his own desire.)

            • Free at Last

              Yes, you are correct in making the good point. Our Father does not Himself cause us to experience those trials and difficulties but permits us to experience them at the hand of Satan in order that we may benefit from them. Much as was the case with Job.

              Proverbs 3 offers much clarification on why it is both desirable and necessary for us.

              Our Father does assume all responsibility for ‘making things right’ as we are disciplined to learn the ways of Love by undergoing adversity.

              Although Satan has done much bad he has not yet been expelled from the Heavenly domain. It is all in accordance with the Grand Plan. Our Father, for whom all things are possible, is able to effectively transform what is bad into something good.

              As we experience the bad on Earth we learn to truly appreciate what is Good. Providing of course that we accept the discipline and learn to forgive all transgressions as Our Father requires. Could it be any other way?

            • Burt Reynolds

              I think you might be wrong about Satan not having been expelled as yet. If not, You seem to be doing a damnably good impression of him.

            • Free at Last

              Hmmm. Well now, I’ve been accused of a lot of things in this lifetime but, shazam, that is certainly a first!
              I wonder if you’d care to provide additional detail on the “impression?”

              I’m in agreement with what Robert has written about Satan and what is yet to come. Do you have other thoughts?

            • Burt Reynolds

              No other thoughts.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Because in your first statement you clearly insinuated that Jehovah the Father does cause those whom He loves to experience and endure numerous trials and difficulties when in fact you know Satan the devil is the ruler of this world and caused everyone’s sufferings from the very beginning.

              So in order to correct your satanic thinking I needed to catch your attention as Jesus caught the attention of Peter when his thinking was clearly wrong.

              Please take note of the account when Jesus rebuked Peter in Matthew 16:

              21 From that time forward, Jesus began explaining to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed, and on the third day be raised up.

              22 At this Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying: “Be kind to yourself, Lord; you will not have this happen to you at all.”

              23 But turning his back, he said to Peter:
              “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think,
              ( not God’s thoughts, but those of men.”).

            • Free at Last

              That is a good response. What is your take on Isaiah 45:6,7?

            • why are you asking his take? (on Isaiah 45:7-6)

            • Burt Reynolds

              I tracked this free at last person down on the Internet and as a result blocked him immediately.

            • Joseph Stephan

              ? cheers, now you to can finally be Free At Last!!!
              https://youtu.be/oTB46FJOF5w

            • Burt Reynolds

              Nope! It wasn’t him. Just to put it kindly, I wouldn’t want him as a neighbour and I don’t even want to talk to him…..oh-er……I’m shunning!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Not after what I’ve found out. I would not want him as a neighbour. Enough said! (By the way, it’s not Martin Luther King…..) steer well clear.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Kevin, I have just successfully tracked down this free at last on the Internet and as a result blocked him immediately.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              We all are very well aware of his trolling activities and that he uses several different names on here pretending to be different people and obviously he loves to be the center of attraction thinking that he has us all fooled thus feeding his alter ego-
              But Burt what has free at last done that makes him deserving of a big shiny boot?.

              .

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Kevin. I won’t say on this site. Obviously what others choose to do is up to them. I’m just appalled. I don’t want to be associated with him in any way and even having him polluting my iPad is too much for me. I applaud Robert for letting him stay and giving him a chance.

            • Burt Reynolds

              What point are you making?

            • Free at Last

              Simply the point that your responses tend to be rancorous. One can only wonder what is the source of the rancor? Would you care to elaborate on what is troubling you?

            • Burt Reynolds

              I meant your point on the scriptures. What point are you trying to make?

    • DA

      Burt here is saying before Jesus walking along side them. just pointing that out here.

      but after Jesus appears, he reveals them and there’ll be no question who they are.

      Zech 8:23

      • Burt Reynolds

        Thanks DA. Makes clear sense!

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Supporting Christ’s Brothers During Their Humiliation. Read more>https://e-watchman.com/supporting-christs-brothers-humiliation/

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Doing good to the brothers of Christ. When?. Read more>
      https://e-watchman.com/doing-good-to-the-brothers-of-christ-when/

  • Burt Reynolds

    I just thought. These wouldn’t be the Twelve Tribes of Christmas would they? (Sorry….)

  • msbwhitfield1

    Hi, part of this article is true, specifically about the 144,000 being the first fruits to God. However, you have misunderstood the mystery of God. Please do not take offense. We both know that God is real and he is with us at this very moment. Therefore, I testify that what I am about to say is truthful and the Holy Spirit who is living in me is my witness. In Romans chapter 11, the Holy Apostle Paul tells us that natural Israelites haven not been rejected. Paul states that he is an Israelite, from the tribe of Benjamin (Romans 11:1 ; Phillipians 3:5) and Jesus himself is an Israelite from the tribe of Judah( Hebrews 7:14; Rev. 5:5). The elect/ chosen (Strong’s 1588) of the Natural Israelites received the Spirit of God by having faith in Jesus Christ Paul, further explains , that a partial hardening of the natural Israelites’s hearts have occurred in order for God to show mercy to the gentiles( the rest of the world) . This is the mystery of God spoken about in Galatians and in Ephesians that God has now extended his mercy and love to all the nations ( Jews and Gentiles). Therefore, all people have the chance to receive the promise of eternal life promised in Jesus Christ. The promise comes by faith. And those who have faith are the children of Abraham. Now, go back to Romans chapter 11:25,26, both Jews ( natural Israelites) and Gentiles who have faith are now considered “ALL ISRAEL”. This concept is very important!!! And it shows us the depth of God’s love! Furthermore, the letter to the Galatians is very important to this concept b/c it highlights the connection between our faith and having God’s Holy Spirit. Galatians chapter 3 tells us that Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles so that we would receive the promise of the SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH. And It is by faith in Christ Jesus that we are sons of God and because we are his sons, He has sent forth the Spirit of His son into our hearts, that cries out, Abba, Father! This is very, very important!

    Therefore, please do not say that the natural Israelites have been rejected or that they do not have faith in Christ Jesus. This is a very serious false accusation. Remember, the elect among them received the promises of God by having faith in Jesus but the rest were hardened– read Romans 11:1-7. Additionally, the 12 tribes have been scattered and are still scattered. God will gather them in his time. Remember, what Jesus said at Matt. 15-24. He said to the women that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. He was referring to his sheep who are Israelites. In John chapter 10, Jesus says I know my sheep and they know me. Therefore, his sheep are those who believe in Him. Furthermore, When He appeared to Saul and Ananias in a vision in Acts chapter 9, He sent Paul , as His chosen instrument , to proclaim His name to the Gentiles. Once all of the Gentiles come in, whom God has called– those who believe, then the natural Israelites hearts will no longer be hardened.

    This is a mystery of God! It can be understood with the help of the HOLY SPIRIT! I pray that God will help you– take care!!!

    • DA

      What is the Israel of God? – https://e-watchman.com/israel-god/ | #eWatchman

      • Burt Reynolds

        (I think this is free at last back again, this time with added scripture and the Holy Spirit. Maybe wrong. Hope so).

        • msbwhitfield1

          Hi Burt Reynolds, I do not know who free at last is.

          The name my parents gave me is Babes Whitfield and I am from The USA. This is my first time writing on this website( since last night). And Yes, I do have the Holy Spirit living in me and yes, I do write from the scriptures because the scriptures are from God–2Peter 1:19-21.

          I really hope you take the time to think deeply on the account of Jesus life on earth. Jesus was given the fullness of God’s Spirit(Colossians 2:9; John 3:34) Yet, He was accused by the Jews of having a demon(John 8: 45-59) So, Jesus told them at Matthew 12:31, that blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
          My point to you is, you should be very careful in your accusations against others who have God’s Holy Spirit. Because when you do this, you are speaking against the Holy Spirit of God.

          I say these things for your benefit. I am not offended when you say bad things about me- it is the Lord who judges me. -1 Corinthians 4:1-5

          I pray that God will soften your heart and give you understanding in these matters.

          May the peace, love and kindness that Christ gives be with you~~take care friend.

        • Free at Last

          Nay, it is not me. But I certainly do comprehend what Ms. Whitfield is attempting to get across in a manner consistent with the teachings of The Lamb of God.

          Apparently she’s until now not encountered the Cult Mentality which many witnesses demonstrate as they respond with extreme suspicion and caustic vitriol. It is pleasing to observe a Servant of the Almighty Jehovah (Yahowah) conduct themselves with gentleness, kindness and lucidity. A fine example of the Love of The Christ. The conversation is most interesting as it deals with important facets of the Good News. Please carry on…

          • Burt Reynolds

            I do apologise. The pompous rubbish you both speak is so similar I thought you were one and the same. Probably from the same source.

            • Free at Last

              Sadly, your words betray your proclaimed love of Jehovah (Yahowah) and the Faithful Lamb Jesus the Christ (Yahoshuwah). The repentance that True Worship brings should be evident in every thought and every utterance. Unless of course, one has been deceived and is living in the False Worship of The Master Deceiver. Even Satan promotes much “Truth” as he goes about his business of leading the masses astray. Our Father in Heaven observes all that we think and do. He knows whether our “Love” is genuine or not.

            • Bklyn Kevin
            • Free at Last

              To the Pharisees (and Sadducees) of that time the Son of Man who walked among them was treated as a “troll.” With the exception of the relatively few men of good will who saw the goodness in his works and his message. It is characteristic of cults to view bearers of truth as unwelcome “trolls.” Not to worry; at the appointed time all will be made to know Truth. Even the “goats” (as was Saul) will come to realize how they have been deceived.

              The video was interesting. And quite true. Trolls do indeed (real Trolls that is) engage in Devilish Behaviors.

              Could it be that the Real Trolls are those “regulars” on this forum who demonstrate behaviors which identify with the Works of Satan? The Love of Our Heavenly Father is much more capable and all encompassing than some here portray it to be.

            • Joseph Stephan

              Hilarious! Somehow I missed this, priceless!
              Thanks BK

            • Arvid Fløysand

              hehe funny cowboy…very god advice thou ..thanks Kevin

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi, interesting. Perhaps I have missed something, where does it say in Robert’s article that the natural Israelites have been rejected. i have read it over and over.

      • msbwhitfield1

        Hi Jamie Mac,
        First, let me make my intentions clear. I’m not against anyone here. I believe it’s important to discuss the scriptures in peace, love and kindness. So I apologize if my comment comes off as being harsh or critical of Robert’s article. I didn’t mean it that way. Second, I appreciate your question. I guess I need Robert to clarify what He means when He says , “the 12 tribes symbolize various congregations scattered about…” Also, when he says, “his greeting was not to literal Jews but to anointed Christians.”

        The implication in those two statements is that the literal Jews have been rejected. This is not what is taught in the scriptures. Read Romans 11:1, Paul clearly states that the Israelites have not been rejected because he is one himself!
        Please brothers and sisters we have to be very careful when reading and interpreting the scriptures. We must read the scriptures in context. Peter, John, James, Jude, Matthew, Luke, Mark and Paul’s writings are very clear, and can be understood. All scriptures are written by the Holy Spirit and therefore have no inconsistencies in them. Only levels of information ranging from an elementary level to a deeper level. Read them from the beginning to the end. You can also listen to the scriptures on YouTube and you can research each word using the interlinear bible on bible hub.com. It takes time but it’s worth it!!!

        As such, Everyone’s statements must be checked and double checked by what the scriptures say just as the Bereans did with the Apostle Paul-Acts 17:11.

        However, I digress. The scriptures teach that the 12 tribes which is “ALL ISRAEL ” include the natural Israelites who have faith in Christ and also the Gentiles who have faith in Christ. Together, they make up the Israel of God. Anyone who believes in Christ Jesus and walks/lives by the Holy Spirit is an Israelite in God’s eyes. This is the main point of the letter to the Galatians. The Galatians were being led away from Christ Jesus by a different gospel, but Paul made it clear to them, in his letter that a true follower of Christ, who is of the Israel of God, would be circumcised of the heart by the Holy Spirit. Once this occurs then that individual is a new creation. Because they have been born of God. They are no longer flesh but Spirit because they have the Holy Spirit of Christ living in them.
        Please , I encourage you to verify what I am saying by reading the following scriptures and pray to God to help you discern them. Please read:
        1) Galatians chapter 3, 4, 5 and 6
        2) John chapter 3
        3) Romans chapter 9 and 11
        4) 1 John chapter 3
        5) Ephesians chapter 2
        6)Phillipians 3: 2-21
        7) Romans 8:1-39
        8) John chapter 14

        –i hope I have been clear. Please let me know if I haven’t ~~take care!

        • Cocheta

          I don’t believe that you have read Bro Roberts interpretation correctly according to the actual Scriptures. Nowhere does he imply that the literal Jews have been rejected.

          If you go to the letter of James you will see that he wrote the letter to the ‘twelve tribes that are scattered about’ – literally, “the ones in the dispersion” (Jas 1:1, ftn) He here addresses his spiritual ‘brothers’, those who hold to “the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ”, primarily those living beyond Palestine (1:2, 2:1 & 7, 5:7)

          James bases much of his argument on the Hebrew Scriptures, but this does not prove that his letter was only for Jewish Christians, even as one’s acquaintance with the Hebrew Scriptures in modern times does not prove that one is of Jewish descent.

          His reference to Abraham as “our father” (2:21) is in harmony with Paul’s words at Galatians 3:28,29, where he shows that one’s being of the true seed of Abraham is not determined by whether one is a Jew or a Greek.
          Therefore, “the twelve tribes” addressed must be the spiritual “Israel of God”
          Ga 6:15.16

          Ref IoS

          If you do reply to this I would appreciate it if you didn’t sign off with ‘take care’, it really isn’t necessary & sounds rather worldly.

          • msbwhitfield1

            Hi Cocheta,
            Thank you for your reply. I’ll reread the letter of James again.
            By spiritual, do you mean filled with the Holy Spirit?

            By the way, thank you for your peaceful and kind tone in your response and yes, I will change my formal exit greeting in my responses. It was not my intention to insult or offend you or anyone else.

            Thank you again for being kind and gentle.

            B.

            • Cocheta

              ‘Spiritual Israel of God’ refers to spiritual Israel rather than to racial descendants of Jacob, whom as you know had his name changed to Israel. The Bible speaks of Israel in a fleshly way (1Cor 10:18), as well as spiritual Israel made up of those for whom descent from Abraham is not a requirement (Matt 3:9)

              The apostle Paul, when using the expression “the Israel of God” shows that it has nothing to do with whether one is a circumcised descendant of Abraham or not
              – Gal 6:15,16.

              Natural Israel failed to produce the required number of ‘heirs with reference to a promise’ (Ro 11:17-24; Ga 3:28,29), so God ‘turned His attention to the nations to take out of them a people for His Name’ (Ac 15:14), concerning whom it was said “You were once not a people, but are now God’s people” (1 Pe 2:10)

              Therefore Spiritual Israel is in reality “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession – Ex 19:5,6; 1 Pe 2:9.
              i.e. the 144,000 chosen/anointed ones.

              As for the ‘great crowd’ see Joel 11: 28, 29, ‘after that I will pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh….’ & compare it with Acts 2:16-27.

              Only then will those who are approved by our Almighty & Invincible God for everlasting life on this earth have Holy Spirit poured out on them. Romans 10:11-13.

            • msbwhitfield1

              Hi Cocheta,
              Thank you. I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate the scriptures that you have included in your comment.

              Overall, we are not in disagreement here. And yes, I see the parallel points made in Acts chapter 2 and in Joel chapter 2.

              I think it’s very important to take a look at Romans chapter 8. I am not sure which Bible you are using but I have quoted the following scriptures from Strong’s KJV and Strong’s HCSB.

              Verse 9, states ” but ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
              How do you understand this verse in the context of this letter being written to, as stated in Romans 1:7, ” all that be in Rome, beloved in God, called Holy” ?
              Do you believe that Jehovah has stopped pouring out His Holy Spirit since the time of the Apostles?

              What are your thoughts on the following verse as it pertains to having God’s Holy Spirit?
              –Ephesians 4:30, tells us not to grieve God’s Holy Spirit, for which you were sealed for the day of redemption.

              Also, you mentioned that natural Israel failed to produce the number of heirs and you quoted from Romans 11: 17-24. Those verses refer to the ingrafting of the Gentiles into the olive tree because of the natural Israelites disobedience which is very true. Those verses also state that if the natural Israelites (natural branches) do not remain in unbelief they will be grafted in because God has the power to graft them in again. Are you reading this scripture the same way?

              Also, a few verses above (verse 7 ) states, ” What, then? Israel did not find what it was looking for, but the elect did find it. The rest were hardened.”
              Who do you think Paul was talking about when he used the word “elect” ?

              ~~Jesus said, “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you…” John 14:27

              B.

            • DA

              very good answer ?

          • DA

            retorical question

            id like to know what a literal Jews even is. makes no sense to me but whatever

            • Cocheta

              Natural Jews, DA, those who were born into the family lines of the Jewish community

            • DA

              yeah i know just point in passive thought how nobody ever knows what their talkin about with the jew thing and they make things more complicated then necessary

            • Burt Reynolds

              Oh! I thought a literal Jew was one that was well read, and that Jesus would throw the book at them unless they turned over a new leaf and made a new chapter.

      • Burt Reynolds

        I think he’s a troll Jamie. But at least by the time your through you would have read the whole bible again! That’s for sure. As he says, take care.

        • msbwhitfield1

          Hi Burt Reynolds,
          Why would I be a troll? And what even is a troll? Secondly, I’m not a guy, I’m a woman.
          Also, I have spoken kindly to all here, yet you have not returned that same kindness to me, what have I done to you?

          • Burt Reynolds

            You have done nothing to me personally. But your purpose here is to draw the brothers away from the organisation, feeling that we are deceived and that you agree with the issues of AvoidJW. We on the other hand, believe that the watchtower is Jehovah’s organisation, that it is significant in the bible prophesy and will ultimately meet its judgement in due time. That this is based in scripture is without doubt. You may well disagree with the issues around these points written in the scriptures, but that is for you to deal with in prayer. I too have family in the congregation, and my family is torn apart by their erroneous teaching, but that does not make the bible untrue and neither does it invite divisions and another round of the I’m right, you are wrong, I will pray for you and the ‘take care’ syndrome of pomposity that is a subtle intimation that we labour under deception. To the contrary, we encourage the brothers to stay within the organisation, but to be aware of its corruption and ultimate fate, what this means and what is required of us. You will surely be aware of the scriptural notes of the inspection of Jehovah beginning with his house. The truth about the organisation is unpalletable but the truth of it is also remarkable. It is also rather pointless to offer scripture to read without the explanation of what the point is that you or anyone offering such, wishes to make. This is the problem. Everyone has a scripture, but few have understanding. This site, has both. What are you offering? Where is the substance, sustinence and perpetuity? What are you trying to convince people of and when you have, where do they go? You simply seem to want people to leave the witnesses. What happens after that? There is plenty of evidence to support the accusation of corruption by men in the watchtower, but that is not what the truth is about. It is a consequence of it. It is what the bible says about these issues that is important.

            • msbwhitfield1

              Hi Burt Reynolds,
              Your response and the tone of your response speaks volumes. Therefore, I have no need to defend myself in this matter. A true servant of God is gentle, humble and kind and is not quarrelsome–2 Timothy 2:24.

              Much love, kindness, peace and gentleness to you from Our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
              Take care~~

            • Burt Reynolds

              We do not defend the bible for ourselves. We defend it for Jehovah. If you had the rebuttal, you would give it. I recall also a true servant of God calling the clergy of the day vipers, amongst other choice words, overturning the money changers tables in the temple and standing firm against all comers. Don’t confuse meek with weak, and all the pseudo humble words of good will, love and kindness count for naught without understanding of Jehovah. As the biblical statement goes, wishing a brother who is hungry to go well fed and do nothing to feed him, is a vacuous blessing, just as your offering is here. Finally, I hope never to take care in expounding the truth. I did not write your intent out in your posts on discus. You did.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              you hit the nail spot on my brother…lets shake the dust of our sandals and walk away and take the peace with us…you and me and all our truthloving brothers and sisters …no one can brake us apart from Jehovas and Jesus love…

            • Free at Last

              We on the other hand, believe that the watchtower is Jehovah’s
              organisation, that it is significant in the bible prophesy and will
              ultimately meet its judgement in due time. That this is based in
              scripture is without doubt.

              You will be pleasantly surprised to discover, at the appointed time, that the “organization” is much larger by far than you’ve been led to believe. Although, it should be obvious when one sees who is truly caring for the widows and orphans, the addicted, the downtrodden, the homeless and the ne’er do wells. Our Father will use any who are ready and willing to answer the call.

              Some will say “But Satan has that power too. He is able to appear as an Angel of Light with seeming “good works.” And, of course, that is true. But the Bible tells us how to discern; how to “test” in order to know.

            • yeah like when we tested that lame website you linked here in comment. how all any honest bible reader had to do was look at the picture on the front page to discern how laughably idiotic and self-serving the rest of the site would be. is spreading untruths that are misleading others from the truth caring for people?

              Jehovah has organized those that belong to him as large as he knows (2-Tim 2:19) and obviously those taught by the Watchtower and doing the (world wide) preaching work that Jesus commanded (Matt 28:19 Matthew 10:7, 11-13 Acts 5:42, 20:2) are the only ones “called by” his “name” (Isaiah 43:7) and making it known. John 17:26

              time to excise the nonsense and brush up on your own discernment, then maybe, with honesty, be free at last

        • DA

          lol

    • Free at Last

      There is quite a lot of confusion regarding the 144,000 in nearly all of Christendom, which by the way, still includes the Watchtower Society. As one of the Elders Wives in a congregation book study said a few years ago, “I’m not so sure that we in The Truth have really removed ourselves from Babylon the Great.”

      The Bible does reveal quite a lot about the 144,000 such as: (a) who they are; (b) why they are anointed; (c) why they have been charged with a greater responsibility; (d) why some of them will choose to reject their anointed mission; (e) and how we may be able to render assistance during the final days.

      The Watchtower’s Comprehensive Concordance is quite helpful in locating the “gems” within the scriptures which magnify comprehension. And of course, The Helper, while not making the task easier, will surely reward studious and painstaking effort with numerous “Aha!!” moments as the search for answers progresses. As you ponder the 144,000 and their mission certain words relating to them will come to mind (The Helper certainly is able to provide guidance with thinking of them) which will provide direction. The Helper does respond to prayerful requests made to Our Father in the name of His Faithful Son. Things “come to us”when we are ready to gratefully receive them.

      These techniques were taught to me by another Elder’s Wife who had an impressive library of various translations of the Bible and numerous references and aids (other than Watchtower publications) to understanding the Bible.

      The number of witnesses who are becoming aware that things are a bit “strange” with certain Watchtower teachings is actually considerable. Most are effectively “incapacitated” by fear but as you’ve seen, more and more of them are finding Robert’s writings and gaining courage and strengthened faith.

      • msbwhitfield1

        Good Morning Free at Last,

        Thank you for your comment. Yes, I see.

        Robert’s writings on this site as well as several other sites are great tools to use to engage in scriptural discussions. And maybe this is God’s way of waking people up.

        Sadly, there are people on these sites who call others names, argue, try to bait others into pointless quarrels and slander God’s Holy name with their malicious words so, I try to stay off of the sites where this nonsense occurs. Those people who do these things are testifying against themselves and will have to answer to God, on judgment day, for every worthless thing they have said.

        However, our God, the Holy One is merciful and He will forgive them if they repent of their words and deeds.

        On a lighter note, I saw your post/email and thought it was extremely insightful. Just thought I would share that with you!!!

        If you ever want to chat about the Holy Scriptures, feel free to email me at msbwhitfield@gmail.com

        Have a lovely day!
        B.

    • PursuingTruth

      Yes, I believe also that the little flock is referring to the natural Jews and the great crowd, other sheep not of this fold, is referring to the Gentile nations. Many representatives in the Watchtower Society believed this understanding should have been considered, but the President of the Watchtower Society at that time overruled them.

      • msbwhitfield1

        Hi PursuingTruth,
        Absolutely! I enjoyed your comment! Remember what Jesus said to Ananias in Acts chapter 9?? Here it is:
        15) But the Lord said to him, ” ” Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine , to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel.”

        So, Jesus sent the Apostle Paul to the Gentiles and to the Jews (Israelites). The point you made is very well taken. The Jews(Israelites) rejected Jesus because God had hardened their hearts. But the elect( chosen ones) of the Jews accepted Jesus, these ones, at the time of Jesus were the apostles and the many others spoken of in the scriptures. Jesus has been choosing His elect, up until this day. And His elect make up this 144,000 elect Jews(Israelites).

        But, we can’t forget that the Gentiles have been grafted in to the olive tree along with the natural branches. This is explained in Romans. What this means is that certain Gentiles, whom God chooses, are also part of the elect. The “grafting in” means they are in Christ Jesus, a part of His body, and can be called Israelites.

        Furthermore, the great crowd spoken of in Revelation is everyone, both Jews and Gentiles, who believe in Christ Jesus. They are all called Israelites, aka, “All Israel”.,They are holding palm branches in their hands, because their reward for their faith is eternal life.

        God is not the author of confusion. He wants His people to know him and understand what He has purposed for them. If you have been called by Him, there is no lie, deception or any kind of evil that can overtake, deceive, or mislead you. For the spirit that is in us is greater than the spirit that is in the world.

        Peace to you and keep your focus on Christ Jesus, who is alive!!!! He is the author of life!! As the Apostle Peter said in Acts 3:15.

  • Simpletruth

    Thank you for this article. It certainly simplifies these matters and makes them easy to digest:-) Appreciate all you do Robert

  • Joseph Stephan

    DON’T FEED THE TROLLS ! Block

  • cat3rn .

    I have a question. Where is your proof that, “The reason for the difference is that the 12 tribes symbolize the chosen ones before they begin ruling with Christ.”? I have never seen in scripture that they symbolize this at all.

  • cat3rn .

    Also where does it say in God’s word that, “whereas, the vision of the 144,000 standing on Mount Zion represents the completed Kingdom.” I do not see that anywhere in scripture either.

    • ewatchman

      Mount Zion represents God’s Kingdom. The Lamb standing upon Mount Zion with 144,000 represents the chosen ones ruling with him. Pretty basic stuff, really.

      • William Roney

        Ok I know that Mt Zion represents His kingdom but where is your proof that the 144,000 represent the “completed kingdom” and where does it state in the Bible that the chosen ones will “rule with Him”?

        • ewatchman

          Many places. How about Luke 12:32: “Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.”

          • cat3rn .

            Here Jesus is talking in a parable about the necessity of living for God in reference to eternity when believers will inherit the kingdom of God and I do not believe that it is referring to a certain number of people. For if it had been the 144,000 the bible would have mentioned it here by using another term such as the sealed ones or of the tribes of Israel etc.. or mentioned the “little flock” in greater detail somewhere else in that chapter or book. It also does not state in that verse or anywhere in that chapter that that particular “kingdom” is “completed” once the 144,000 has entered it. It also does not state that the “little flock” will rule with Him in that verse. It also says in Rev 7 that the 144,000 will join the “other fold” and that this fold (or large flock) is a great multitude. So we will all be going to the same kingdom at some point. See John Chapter 10. So this bible reference in Rev & John contradict your reasoning for a “completed kingdom” as it would not be complete if more will be added to it later on. It would be complete then and only then.

            • e.v.g

              And the earth will be destroyed by godzilla.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hilarious! Sock puppets…funny, lol.

  • wish4truth2

    if the 144,000 represent the 12 tribes of Israel who then is the tribe of Joseph?

  • Francis Bencharles

    why is Levi substituted for Dan in Revelation 7 and does this mean something extra?

  • Marisa Gomez

    Jesus wont detroyd Satan in that time because Satan will be in the abbys for 1000 years . Then he will be detroyd

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