Jehovah’s Witnesses – What is the truth?

//Jehovah’s Witnesses – What is the truth?

They are a cult! No, they are God’s earthly organization! They are false prophets and antichrists! No, Jehovah’s Witnesses are Kingdom proclaimers —the true religion. They protect child molesters! No, “we abhor child abuse.”

These are just a sampling of the accusations against and claims made by the Watchtower. One thing is certain: The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and Jehovah’s Witnesses are one of the most controversial religious organizations in the world. But what is the truth?

It is Saturday morning. The door bell rings. At your door are two well-dressed people who politely greet you and introduce themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses. They begin speaking about a world to come of peace and infinite happiness. And you are invited to learn how you can live forever    in paradise on earth.

Most people seem to resent the intrusion. They are not interested in living in a new world. It sounds crazy to them —too good to be true. Besides, most people like this world fine.

But for a special few that knock on the door was literally an answer to their prayer and the best thing that ever happened to them. They accept an offer of a free home Bible study. Over weeks and months they learn the basic teachings of the Bible —the truth. They learn that God has a name and a Kingdom —a government, that is going to be run by none other than Jesus Christ. What an awesome thing, to know that the Kingdom of the Heavens will eventually crush all the kingdoms and governments of this world.

Jehovah's Witnesses at your doorThey accept the invitation to attend meetings at the local kingdom hall. They are warmly greeted and feel at home and begin to make fast friends with various congregants. Eventually they become Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves and go out to preach the message and teach others the truth, just as Jesus commanded his disciples to do.

But now, what about all the controversy? Is the Watchtower a cult? Does it fit the biblical criteria of a false prophet? And what about all the press reports in recent years regarding child molestation among Jehovah’s Witnesses? What is the truth?

The answer to all of the above is a qualified yes.

More importantly, though, the real question is: Do these evils preclude the Watchtower from currently functioning in the capacity of Jehovah’s earthly organization, as advertised? Expressed differently —does the presence of stumbling blocks necessarily nullify the work and faith of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

And the answer to both is no.

From the standpoint of most of Jehovah’s Witnesses the Watchtower is a benevolent influence that helps people be upright and live more purposeful lives. However, many, including a growing number of ex-JW’s, view it as a harmful institution. Just to put things in perspective, though, when examined in the same light first century Christians fit the criteria of a cult too. (Article: Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a Cult?)

Still, it is undeniable that the Watchtower exerts an inordinate control over the spiritual lives of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The real question is: What if in the future the Watchtower’s influence becomes positively deleterious? That may seem improbable now, but there is a scenario whereby that will be unavoidable. And what is that? The unexpected return of Christ in his glorious parousia.

At the present moment Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to even consider the possibility. The Watchtower has assured them that there cannot be another world war and other events such as food shortages and pandemics, that would fulfill the sign of the time of the end more convincingly than what occurred a century ago. Because the Watchtower attaches no importance to current world events Jehovah’s Witnesses are oblivious to the significance of the developing crisis that some sober-minded observers are calling the prelude to World War Three.

Under those circumstances the 1914 doctrine will collapse and with it the credibility and authority of the Watchtower, making them guilty of misleading Jehovah’s Witnesses as to the timing and manner of the return of Christ; hence, false prophets.

This is not merely a hypothetical “what if?” It is a certainty. Christ himself sternly forewarned his followers of a powerful misleading influence that would prevail during the tribulation that could even deceive the chosen ones, if that were possible. As it stands presently, those who are called into the Kingdom only recognize one authority that functions as Jehovah’s earthly mouthpiece and that could have any influence over them — the Watchtower.

First century Hebrews who became Christians faced a similar situation when the foretold disgusting thing appeared. They then had to leave behind the doomed city of Jerusalem and the Jewish system. As Paul explained: “Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the reproach he bore, for we do not have here a city that remains, but we are earnestly seeking the one to come.” —Hebrews 13:13-14

The “city” to come is the very Kingdom of God and Jehovah’s Witnesses will be required to leave the “camp” of the Watchtower organization when the time arrives. It will be a test of faith unlike anything before.

The truth is, the Watchtower has served a vital function up to this point. It has spearheaded the greatest preaching work in the history of Christianity. The organization has served as a rallying point and a seedbed for the final members of the composite bride of Christ and instilled in a great multitude the hope of inheriting the earth in the aftermath of the great storm that is coming. What comes next?

In the 12th chapter of Revelation Satan the Devil is called “the accuser of our brothers… who accuses them night and day before our God.” However, should we suppose his accusations are baseless? Not at all. There is no doubt the Accuser’s aspersions have some validity. For example, when Satan came before Jehovah to accuse the man Job the Devil claimed that God protected him from calamity. That was true. God did protect him.

Also, Jesus informed the apostles that Satan had demanded to have them to sift them as wheat. In other words, he wanted to have their faith in Christ put to the test. And his demands were granted.

If we were to use our imagination, what might we suppose the Accuser is up to now? It is hard to imagine that his foremost demand is not to have the Watchtower under his control in order to test the faith of Jehovah’s Witnesses to the limit.

According to the prophets Jehovah’s purpose involves that very thing. The coming of Christ will not only bring about the judgment of the house of God (“Bethel” in Hebrew), but present an entirely new reality apart from the institution of the Watchtower. Only those with faith in the unshakable Kingdom of God will be able to make the transition. And that is the truth.

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2017-10-10T06:39:48+00:00 April 7th, 2016|Page Two|57 Comments
  • PATHFiNDER.VOT

    Great article Brother King!…Thanks!

  • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

    Hello Robert.
    Question. Is the deluding influence you speak of from the scriptures the same with which the anointed are faced with now, the same that they will face in the future and well this also be the culmination and the point at which we seperate being call those who are not of there sort?
    Question 2.The March 2016 Watchtower study article “QuestIons from Readers” When were God’s people held captive by Babylon the Great? I was wandering what your thoughts are about the new adjustment and does it carry any clout? Any help much appreciated. Thank you

    • ewatchman

      The “deluding influence” will only become a factor when Christ comes. It is a virtual certainty that the WT will not accept him as such. Even now with the clouds of world war gathering the WT sees no significance in these developments. So, JW’s will be required to do the unthinkable – abandon the WT. Its credibility will be shot then anyway

      As for your second question the WT’s latest adjustment was considered in an article in the WT Review section entitled When Will Jehovah’s Witnesses go into Captivity to Babylon the Great? https://e-watchman.com/jehovahs-witnesses-babylon/

      • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

        You touched on the subject Cruel Shepherd’s who not treat the flock with kindness. The point here is,it must undoubtedly be Jehovah s people and not Christendom for they are know to have mistreated there flocks for centuries. So my question is who are or will become the Shepherds that are cruel ?l

      • Ken Rosenberg

        Hey Robert, could you make a youtube video explaining in the detail the order of events that are to take place?

  • Sam

    This is a great introduction for new readers Robert, good call on having this on the home page. I really liked the new intro vid too. Cool little revamp 😀

  • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

    Well Br. Robert this is a Great article. It is only now I came to understand the full meaning of Heb:13:13-14 especially the word “outside the campus” that is a great insight you gave to us. I also shared it with my wife because she is an regular pioneer and hence a staunch believer of WTS. Some how I convinced her about 1914 fraud back in 2014 and she stopped believing it since then. I also convinced her about that Holy place represents the Christian congregation itself but not Christendom and yesterday again about Heb:13:13-14 and she accepted. Thanks a lot you are really an anointed one and May Jehovah through Jesus give you long life and Good health.

  • iscamer

    The WTBTS is already under his control. Any organization that falsely prophesied as much as they have is False Prophet.

  • Anonymous

    Hi Robert. I,m anonymous from Dominican Republic. In the Watchtower’s Study for this week , I found an interesting statement but could go unnoticed. In paragraph 8 page 8 , reads as follows: “Jehovah is now molding us is viewed as a spiritual paradise that is presently TAKING SHAPE”
    Also, at the beginning of paragraph 9 mentions this : “In the new world, we will experience to the full the blessings of the spiritual paradise”
    Although the watchtower still holds that we live in a spiritual paradise , these statements indicate that now tell us that paradise is not complete. Could this indicate a subtle acceptance of your view of the “spiritual paradise “?
    What do you think about it Robert?

    • Sam

      I don’t personally think so, they still hammered on about how no harm is done in the cong with no beastly predators or dangers etc ….maybe they were referring to a time when no brothers will have facial hair or wear tight suits. Hehe 😛

      • Francis Bencharles

        Yeah, that facial hair is really bringing great harm to the spiritual paradise, for sure.

        • Huldah

          I mentioned a brother who had been in Vietnam in one of my posts. He got jungle rot on his face and had to wear a beard. Due to cutting himself up badly if he shaved. He was forced to move to Alaska because he wanted to serve as an elder and they wouldn’t let him here. For some reason, after he returned they finally let him have the beard. He seemed to still feel self conscience about it though.
          He Did have a lot of HS however. Humble man.

          • Francis Bencharles

            The beard thing is simply a power play with the brothers. New comers to the hall would not be stumbled by a speaker who has a beard. Some would actually feel more at home. It’s just a way to “question” your humility or whatever. It’s power freak gamesmanship. They are winning in that department for sure.

            • Noe Namely

              I mean no disrespect to anyone but here goes. After being around K Halls much of my life and recognizing such a great change over the past 20 or so years, at first, I find it really hard to trust, at first, anyone who is close shaven with a book bag or brief case. They have a certain look that takes me back in time. Some of you might know the look of which I refer? I’m not trying to be funny or hurtful! I really have an issue if the new person reminds me of those times..sorry but so. I have never had an issue trusting those with facial hair or even longer hair in general. They look more natural to me and not like that are hiding behind a haircut & razor.

    • ewatchman

      No doubt a few Bethel writers realize the whole spiritual paradise thing is a sham. So, they are trying to jigger around with it without repudiating it entirely.

    • Daisy

      These two paragraphs hit me between the eyes today at the kh, as there were no spare magazines last week to take home to peruse. Fighting to overcome my palpitations when answering, such was my excitement, I did manage to comment …”.the full blessings of spiritual paradise cannot be fully realised until we are under the rulership of God’s Kingdom and the influence of Satan is done away with. Since the garden of eden , mankind has been affected by the ruler of this world, and we ourselves for example have never enjoyed a life without feeling that effect”. I just changed the order of the words printed. Yes, its true the brothers do feel safe & secure despite the wicked world around us, but when the truth will out, the artfully contrived stories exposed, then all the molding to become more like lambs may mean our very lives. The conductor thanked me for an interesting thought & I silently thanked RK for giving it to me in the first place….what did I know before I found here…. Much love for all the prayers….I’m squirming under all the attention. Love you all…

      • We love you too ❤

      • Burt Reynolds

        Hello Daisy. How are you managing? If you need help, let me know. I’ll try to help. Nothing much happening up here. They had the Margate carnival here last Saturday. Why people go to Margate I will never understand, it seems like a sort of self inflicted punishment. Maybe it’s being stored up for the tribulation. Thou shalt be sentenced to thirty years in the Margate McDonald’s. Anyway, I stayed at home and read Roberts articles like a good boy. Did me quite a lot of good really. Very relaxing. I hope you are relaxing too! X

        • Daisy

          Burt, hello you good boy….
          Its 6.30pm & I’m in my bed prematurely following a hard day’s night & following day.

          I was introduced to my next temporary hall of residence yesterday, surviving the most gruelling blood test – I’m running out of veins,- I’ve suggested using the ones on the tip of my nose but they just sort of laughed.

          Number 10 is my chair number, next week its number 9, there must be a reason but I didn’t ask. The lady using my chair stared into space, as did all but one man who studied the front page headlines of a gutter press newspaper. It was difficult to smile or say hello as no one looked my way. Each one was hooked up to a drip going through a cannula stuck in a vein. Hoping the back of my hand provides one by Friday when I start chemo. “I am not a number” echoed somewhere in the distance but judging by the expressionless faces it looks like folk don’t really seem to mind having their bodies abused. But what else can one do? Hope I’m wrong, but Dr Mengele crossed my mind for some strange reason & that ain’t funny but tptb are alive & kicking in the medical profession as you obviously know. You must be so relieved to be retired & walking dog & reading what God requires of us to read without the help of that “channel” business. Its surprising how a lone cryer in the wilderness can make so much sense by just reading the Bible for himself & helping us so much in our search for the truth.

          Am relaxing now till nearly dark then walking dog for the last time. Thanks for the offer but I’m managing, post chemo is going to be my biggest challenge coping with the after effects of such a barbaric “treatment” as its called. My poor old body can’t wait for such a “treat” yum…even less red blood cells…

          Your prayers love & interest are so good for my wellbeing. .
          I wish to say a big thank you to Robert for allowing me to chatter on, he doesn’t seem to mind…
          Much love to everyone & especially to all the “wheat””appearing here nearly every day…with love to you ALL from Daisy. Kiss for you Burt…
          Well done Beverley getting to the hall on Sunday…Ive started taking everybody here in with me to my hall in my head. RK is always ahead of us leading the way. I have to fight Burt for the padded pensioner chair but with you all around me everything falls into perspective & I can relax & enjoy the programme & my brothers in a whole new way. So I’m with you Beverly and Volcanic, every step of the way…x

          • Beverly kenyon

            Aww Daisy, you write so well. Always love your posts. It’s like you’re in front of me in person. Thanks for telling us what’s been happening with you. Eat, Pray, Love. I hope you’re doing all those things. Keep fighting Daisy! Xx

          • Volcanic

            darling Daisy, Daisy, dooo, you’re probably sleeping & here I am catching up on posts. So glad to hear from you on here, I saw your e-mail earlier & couldn’t get chance to reply because baby was doing a drama princess act for the afternoon – she was terribly ill at the weekend with a fierce temperature, in fact we took her to urgencias. She’s okay now, suffering from a heavy cold & a premature case of the terrible twos tantrums, how does such a little person command so much attention???

            I’ve been praying so much for you, my dearest sister, in fact I think maybe I heard Jehovah say earlier ”yes, Annie, we have that in hand” – couldn’t be sure though 😉
            Love you, Daisy xxxxx

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Daisy, keep going. Try to be positive. I appreciate how you must feel but it really is the best option and the most advanced care that you can have, plus the most advanced medicine. But your observations are just the same as they were in the 1600s. I have a medical book from 1649 with all the ‘cures’ in it, including the plague. One cure is made from the leaves of the Wayfarers Tree, I think the tree is mentioned in the bible, but the other ingredients are more down to earth, ground up snails mixed with urine! And that is a nice recipe for cure by comparison. So your impression of medical care is not uncommon and seems to be an age long trait. If you want to look the book up it is called the London Practice of Physick. The chairs you mention are numbered probably in treatment week order, thus the reducing number, though what system they use now I am not certain of. Sadly, the expression of others and their detachment is in part due to their lack of hope, not in a cure so much as in their future. You have a future, even if there is a pause, so stay strong and remember your creator as assuredly as he remembers you. I hope you have someone to go with you. Try to keep positive and renew your strength daily through the scriptures. I love going through Genesis again and again. What power, what love and design and the scenery ! The mountains, lakes, rivers, forests, the spring meadow full of buttercups. It’s a true glory Daisy. So hang on in there and keep your trust strong. Live for the day, both the day you have now, and the day of Jehovah to come. X

            • Noe Namely

              Hi Burt, My wife & I have been on a very long trip in Southern & Western USA over the past six + months solid & only recently have come off the road for repairs. I have not been around for a while, so, not current with Daisy’s situation, other than what I’ve read in the posts here. I’ve been reading some of Robert’s posts, about nutrition & all the Tainted Fake Food many countries are being bombarded with. I have found a web site with incredible articles on natural foods and treating diseases….cancer with herbs and food for the most part. I’ve always known that cancer simply can’t live in an alkaline body PH. Something as simple as eating a few lemons each week can work miracles in many, many cases. I start my day with the juice & pulp of 1/3 of a “soft ripe” lemon each morning 30-45 minuets before coffee, what a wake up jolt that is! Baking soda is another one that decreases the acidic PH and bolsters the Alkaline side. If you think Daisy would not take it as an intrusion, perhaps you might share the site with her? I would like that. His name is Mike Adams and can be found at… “naturalnews.com” he also goes by Health Ranger. I take him to be a “For Real” kind of individual. I have not heard him mention God but has his view of God, he just does not mix it with his work He is definitely caught up in trying to Save this System which I/we do not hold to at all. Still, I do trust his vast knowledge otherwise and feel it beneficial to anyone wanting to strengthen their body/system to ready themselves for harder times to come. Mr. Adams owns & operates a Laboratory where he has analyzed just about every kind of medication, vitamins, food and what have you. I hope others will benefit from some of his articles, videos & blogs as I have myself. Best

          • Peaceful Waters

            Hi Daisy,
            Wanted to let you know how much I appreciated your “chatter”. Had a moment to come and read some posts. I was unaware of your struggles, but was truly touched by your perseverance and loving demeanor you expressed. It is very humbling to read about true trials and tribulations, and helps to put everything into perspective. I just wanted to say thank you. Sending you much love and prayers xo

            • Joseph Stephan

              Hiya PW, I have her email address if you would like to send her a note. She is a dear sweetheart and lovely lovely sister!

            • Peaceful Waters

              That sounds lovely Joseph. As long as it’s alright with her 🙂

            • Joseph S.
            • Daisy

              Hahaha Joseph, you nearly gave me a heart attack until I realised I’m not really Daisy nor Doris Day, nor the mail address so no worries!
              Will be great to hear from PW. Thanks.

        • Don’t knock Margate: that’s the Jolly Boys’ Outing destination of excellence! If anyone is not from the UK reading this, look up OFAH or better yet, get Burt to explain 😉

      • Thanks for posting my dear, it’s nice to check out the comments on the smart phone between jobs and see how your day is going across the pond! Hang in there, we’re all rooting for you!
        Go Daisy
        Go Daisy
        Go Daisy
        Get better
        Get better
        Get better
        ❤❤❤

        • Daisy

          I’m trying dang it!!!!
          I so wanna make it through.
          Thanks for the Eze 34 quote, I was hunting for it when talking to a sister who remarked on how many sheep are returning to the kh….she said “returning to the truth”. So that’s one scripture that’s going to stick. Just got to remember all those posted by Bklyn lol. Thank you Kevin.
          Good thing you’re your own boss as the gb will reprimand you for using your boss’s time when you should be working…chop chop brother..

    • Srecko Sostar

      Hi Anonymous 🙂 I am also anonymous despite of showing my name, ahahaaaa.
      “Therefore, the environment in which Jehovah is now molding us is viewed as a spiritual paradise that is presently taking shape. We feel safe and secure despite the wicked world around us.”
      I have copy/paste one sentence more from that paragraph 8.
      JW members are teached that they are living now in “spiritual paradise”. What they are meaning when they using that expression? What does it means word “spiritual” in this context? Only in sense of imagination of someone inner life, his/her emotions, soul state, imagination, spirituality. Because in the same time, parallely (time-space) they living also in “materialistic shape of paradise”,aka JW family, congregations, conventions, places where they socializing with each other as members of one religious community. And as sentence in those article stated, they “feel safe and secure…”. But that is only feeling (false, not real)… And they also, on one side wish to forget reality of possibility that bad and ugly things are happening in that “safe and secure place”, and on other hand the reactions in person to person relations, also person to group perceptions/ reactions when have problems are in fact the very similar or the same as in any other “worldly” groups no matter of ideology.
      We as human, what else, nothing more nothing less, making others to feel bad sometimes, made some unrighteousness to others, and others doing that same to us. So, how is looking that “spiritual paradise” at all? Material and spiritual paradise was Eden. And what safety and security that fact produced?? Nothing! No “s” in all that. So, if in time of Eden God rules the World and everything gone wrong, what today WTJWorg can offer to people in their corporative and materialistic “spiritual paradise”??

    • John Roberts

      If one believes that Jehovah rescued man through the Atonement, then wants to put him back in a garden, one needs to ask himself what would be the purpose of that? Can you imagine being on a paradise Earth for a trillion years? I lived in Hawaii once. When I first got there it was literally a paradise in every way. But four months later I had what’s known as “rock fever.” You spend so much time in paradise that you soon tire of it!

      God rescued man from the garden by and through the Atonement. One question the Watch Tower never answered is: _How could Adam and Eve have “sinned” before they knew good from evil?_ They couldn’t. God knew Adam and Eve would fall long before they fell. He kind of had it planned that way. Adam fell that man might be, and man is that he might have joy. Man could not have had joy in the garden because he couldn’t grow in power and intelligence. But his decision to fall had to be his decision, not God’s. Why else would he have put innocent man in a setting with an evil entity like Satan? _Doesn’t that seem strange to you?_

      God sent man to school on the earth. We’re here to be tried and tested. And regardless of what the JWs and Adventists teach, man is a being of spirit. He survives death and continues on. Origen, who had one foot in the early church and one foot in the later church, wrote: “After death, I think the saints (early members) go to Paradise, a place of learning or school of the spirits in which everything they did on Earth would be made clear to them.” Had the early church believed in death sleep, Origen would have known since he had access to many scriptures we still don’t have access to. When man dies, his spirit indeed sleeps in the ground, but he continues on in the spirit.

      My point is that man is not destined to live out eternity in some crummy garden painting, gardening and having family reunions for gazillions of years. God has far more magnificent things in mind for us, and the whole idea was to get us out of the garden. Read I Corinthians 15, which teaches us that there will be many different glories in the resurrection.

  • Rufus Delufus

    Only gullible, foolish people believe the words of the Jehovah’s Bible, that has been translated anonymously.

    • Take a hike Dufus Rufus, your not welcome here

    • Francis Bencharles

      All Bible translations seem to have their good points and areas where they clearly show a bias in their translation work. It seems to be a strong human trait. But I think the NWT is fairly accurate and I like the way it reads. Of course when doing a deeper study it’s always good to look at multiple translations to get a rounded feel for what is being said, but like I said, bias is found in most translators.

  • Joe Dman

    I was showing a relative this introduction and immediately she was a little confused because the second paragraph states: “These are just a sampling of the accusations against and claims made by the Watchtower.”
    I never caught it before. But someone not familiar with Roberts message may think that the accusations are made by the watchtower against itself. Although the statement is grammatically correct, it could be a little confusing to someone who hangs on every word. This relative is very intelligent so if it confused her, it could others. So that’s why I’m bringing it up.
    I just interjected some qualifiers: These are just a sampling of the accusations (made by critics) against and claims made by the Watchtower (in it’s defense ).

  • PursuingTruth

    Very interesting article and yes I agree with the sentiments in the article. We have been forewarned by Jehovah God that we should only put our trust in him and not man. We have been informed by Jehovah’s word the Bible to keep abreast of the times as the end draws near. I firmly believe we our on the verge of the coming great tribulation and world war III.

  • MaddeR_TheN The_HatteR

    WHAT is this CRAP?? Is this SIDING with JW’S?? Seriously.. “And what about all the press reports in recent years regarding child molestation among Jehovah’s Witnesses? What is the truth?

    The answer to all of the above is a qualified yes.”

    The answer is YES??? “YES” does NOT satisfy the QUESTION. WHAT ABOUT THE REPORTS??? What about US??? THE SEXUALLY ABUSED SILENT LAMBS ??? What about US THE VICITIMS, THREATENED, and PUNISHED for speaking up???? “YES”?????? YES WHAT???? NICE how whomever wrote this SMUT glossed over the BRUTAL PRISON we have for memories of childhood.. How MESSED up and DYSFUNCTIONAL we ARE.. all you have to say is YES??????? I HOPE. There IS a HELL that is NICE AND HOT… So ALL of you who take LIGHTLY the SUFFERING some if us endured can be sodomized and SPIT roasted for ALL eternity. I HOPE that is ANOTHER fact that JW’s got WRONG.

    • John 3:16

      Please read the following article. Robert is far from supportive of the Watchtower’s abuse cover-ups.

      https://e-watchman.com/o-nation-feels-no-shame/

    • Burt Reynolds

      Hello Hatter, what ever you are reading you have misconstrued it. We all of us once were JWs and still are in a different way. No one here sanctifies or glosses over or reduces the pain and suffering of abuse victims be it sexual or mental. The issue here is to describe the watchtower for what it is. That does NOT excuse what it does. I can understand exactly what you are saying and your source of pain, but if you wish to discuss your issues, I for one would be happy to explain. But in fact, you could do no better than to read the comprehensive issues discussed in the articles provided. We all of us wish you well, and though many of us have not gone through the things you have done, some of us have and understand. You may ask why we are still here if there is not a rational explanation. Don’t go away mad, go having understood the issues if you have to, but more than welcome to stay and discuss if you wish.

    • John Roberts

      I reckon what he’s sayin’ is that even Jehovah’s earthly kingdom is made of up of people who are plain and fallible humans, and that as such, even the true kingdom of Jehovah can have bad apples in it. But I don’t think the WTBTS can be “it” because there’s absolutely zero indication that the Lord has chosen the WTS as His church and kingdom. Again, no one’s been chosen, called and/or ordained in the Society, nor has anyone any indication that the publishing company is God’s 21st century church.

      Or am I wrong?

      .

  • John Roberts

    You say the WTBTS can be both a cult and a false prophet, yet it doesn’t keep them from being God’s earthly organization? Can you really believe this? How could it be God’s organization when God never spoke to them, never appeared to them, never sent an angel to them or gave them a vision or revelation? How could they be of God and not even been contacted by God?? If God never changes and is the same yesterday, today and forever, then the WTS cannot be of God because God 1) never chose them and 2) never ordained them, both of which He’d done in the past with His prophets.

    What church on Earth has apostles and prophets? Which church has bishops, priests, seventy, deacons, teachers, elders and evangelists (patriarchs)? Which church has revelation, angelic ministrations and other gifts of the Spirit? In other words, is there a church on Earth that is like the ancient (first century) church? If God never changes, why would God stop speaking to man? Why wouldn’t He continue to send angels and visions, with witnesses of His divine actions? To put people on Earth then tell them to guess the right church (or else) doesn’t seem quite fair does it?

    If the Governing Body aren’t apostles, what good are they? If they don’t receive revelation, why is their Bible interpretations any better than mine (or yours or anyone else’s)? They’re just blind guides leading the blind. If we follow them, we all end up in the pit. In the scriptures, when has God done anything invisibly? When has He been the passive player instead of the active player?

  • Joseph S.

    Jehovah help us, roberts john is back …….?????? we need a royal flush!

    • Richard Long

      Anybody ever engage this fool before?

      • Joseph S.

        Yes, most have blocked including me!
        He Slithers in every now and again ….

        • Richard Long

          I’ll just ignore him then. Yeah, have you noticed how the site has been so much quieter this week? Seems like most of us are a little wore down.

          • Joseph S.

            Probably right, it’s also the start of summer, which in turn we have assemblies, vacations and schools out ! I just got back from two weeks at the beach!! ( outer banks of North Carolina)

            • Richard Long

              Right. We’ll be away cruising first week+ of July. Watch the house for me, will ya?

            • Joseph S.

              Awesome, enjoy! Will hold down the fort.

            • Richard Long

              Bittersweet time of life… probably last family vacation with my oldest daughter along as she’s raring to fly the coop!

          • Noe Namely

            Agreed, watching the Real News with the comments of War, World Collapse, EMP’s on US soil and so on…..all those negatives have a way of taking the pep out of my step too….

      • John 3:16

        I know it might be tempting but please keep these scriptures in mind if you do decide to engage 🙂

        2 Timothy 2

        23  Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates,+ knowing that they produce fights. 24  For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle* toward all,+ qualified to teach, showing restraint when wronged,+ 25  instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed.+ Perhaps God may give them repentance* leading to an accurate knowledge of truth,+ 26  and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him to do his will.+

        • Richard Long

          Good advise. Don’t feel good about just letting him drop a big turd like that in here, but I’m not likely to engage anyone so soon after the whole Brian thing. Still feel really lousy about the way that turned out! Plus, I’m just really feeling out of sorts from watching the world, so my mildness gear would be in full fail mode. So, since this guy has had his chances with more generous hearts and sharper minds than mine, I’ll pass.

          • John 3:16

            Believe me, I understand the urge to comment back, and there’s nothing wrong with doing so sometimes, but we have to pick our battles. Often times people come here just to argue, and I have to believe that that is Satan’s way of drawing us out in the hopes that our tempers flare. And don’t be so hard on yourself about Brian. I’m hoping he has seen some of your posts and knows that you express regret over how it all ended.

            • Richard Long

              Thanks for the hand on the shoulder, brother.

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