Podcast #77

//Podcast #77

Program considers the significance of the two witnesses of Revelation. 

2018-01-18T05:58:03+00:00 January 18th, 2018|Podcasts|286 Comments
  • Bklyn Kevin

    What about the 7,000 who are killed?.
    Excerpt:
    QUESTION: An article in the January, 2016, Watchtower, on paragraph 14, states that the Bible does not say how many of the anointed will be left at the time that the tribulation begins. However, I have understood from previous podcasts and articles of yours that there will be 7000. I take it this means that the Bible does not state how many will be there when the great tribulation begins, but it does state how many will be there at the end of the tribulation and just prior to Armageddon. If that is so, will those extra ones that die before the end of the GT die a martyr’s death? Also, can you explain or point out to me your reasoning for coming up with the 7000? What scriptures talk about this?. Read more>
    https://e-watchman.com/what-about-the-7000-who-are-killed/

    Also read > Revelation of Christ and the Two Witnesses.
    https://e-watchman.com/revelation-christ-two-witnesses/

    • Cathii D’Anthonii

      So, the 7000 is a symbolic number or literal? I’ve always taken it for literal because of Elijah….there are a lot of people taking the emblems at memorial now.. Like 15,000. A lot of things can change overnight

  • Max

    Thank you very much brother King. As always excellent podcast. The part of how the two witnesses prophecy will play in the congregation connected to the sheeps helping the king’s brothers is amazing. I’m sure it will play out just like that.

  • Isaac of Coimbatore

    I want to know one thing brother Robert. The two witnesses preach for 1260 days as per Rev:11:3 in sack clothes. As per verse 7 after they finish their preaching the beast from the abyss conquer them and kill them. Verse 9 says their cropses lay in the street for another 1260days = 3and 1/2 years. So preaching for 3.5 years + laying dead for 3.5 years so total 7 years. So total great tribulation period is 7 years? So what is then happy are the ones who keeps in expection and who arrived at 1335 days in Dan:12:12? Where is happiness when annointed ones lay dead till the end of 2520 days as per Rev:11:11?

    • It doesn’t say the two witnesses lay dead on the street for three and a half years. It says days, not years. There is no justification for ascribing a day of a year. Besides., it would not literally be possible for a corpse to lay exposed for years. It would be dissolved into the elements. The point of the three and a half days is to invoke the death of Jesus, as he was entombed for parts of three days and then he was resurrected. So, the deaths of the two witnesses is on par with the death of Jesus since they too are his sons.

  • Bonnie Russell

    Great podcast! I always wondered if this was literal. As I suspected, it’s usually a mix of both literal and symbolism. I wonder if I know any of these people or have met them without knowing it or if it’s even close enough to the last days for them to exist yet. I know I’ve met people who claimed to be anointed, but depending how much time is left those last remaining few could be a few generations away yet.

  • Craig Knight

    Hello everyone. I am making this my last post on this forum. A few weeks ago I was talking about the blood issue and other teachings of the Governing Body that I feel are wrong and so I feel that I am not welcome here any longer.

    When I first found this site Robert suggested in an e mail to me that I start by reading the Bible. Since I read the Bible before I wanted to focus on Acts thru Revelation. So I did just that. After reading I was surprised how little was mentioned about an earthly hope. Rather Paul spoke directly to the Jews and Gentiles as being one fold in God’s Kingdom. The heavenly hope was given to us by Christ from 33 to the present and that door remains open to Christians in spite of WT’s trying to shut the door to JW’s. I have found that the WT’s teaching of the “Other sheep” is wrong. Most people who haven’t been brain washed can see that very clearly. The “Other sheep are the Gentiles. The Little flock that the WT calls the anointed are really the Jews. I guess my being away from WT for 30 years has helped me to see things more clearly. I think we are all victims of WT treachery and lies and mind numbing brain washing. The Great Crowd of Revelation is the same as the 144,000. In Revelation 7:15 The Great Crowd are not just Before the Lamb and God but they are “IN” the Naos or Temple not on the earth. The 144,000 must be a symbolic number. Rutherford was responsible for introducing the Great Crowd so they could explain why the number of partakers was so high back then. Thus the door was shut up for all of Jehovah’s Witnesses with new light. Matthew 23:13 “You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.” Shame on the WT for being a part of this. If you are not Born again you will not see the Kingdom of God much less enter into it. John 3:3. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.” 3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

    The Great Crowd come thru the Tribulation after they have died faithfully and are victorious waving the palm branches which are symbolic of victory. Revelation 7 first shows the 144,000 a symbolic group BEFORE the winds of destruction are released on the world. Revelation 7:2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. Then the Great Crowd are shown being victorious coming THRU the Great Tribulation. They come thru by dying and are raised to heaven. They don’t survive on the earth but are clearly seen before God and the Lamb “IN” heaven. Revelation 7: 9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, ( Since the 144,000 is symbolic then the number of them is unknowable) from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” So the 144,000 and the Great Crowd are not 2 separate groups but are seen in 2 different times. The first part of Revelation 7 the war of armageddon has not occured yet and the then when John see’s the Great Crowd they are coming thru the and have died loyal to Christ and are victorious and join God and Christ in heaven. Vs 15 of chapter 7 says they are “IN” heaven. Why do you refuse to accept the Bible teaching that the Great Crowd are IN heaven? Why can you not see this it is very clear and undisputable. If you don’t see it then you do not want to see it for whatever reason. Do you believe WT’s false interpretaion over the Bible’s very clear message? Have you become too comfortable in your belief’s? The meek shall be raised to life on earth in the resurrestion of the righteous and the unrighteous and all those faithful to God BEFORE the heavenly hope was opened up to Christians will be on the earth. In the future those sealed by God will be able to access the earth and speak with humans and interact with them. It will be a wonderful time for heavenly and the earthly creatures. How sad to miss out on the heavenly hope because you are still beleiving the lies that a group of men who also think Christ has already come have to offer you. Robert I respect you very much but I think you are a victim of WT brainwashing yourself. Don’t shut up the kingdom of God to others it is not scriptural. You have great insight into may things of prophecy and I really appreciate you but I think you have been misled and you are too loyal to this organization’s dogma.

    I will be partaking at the next memorial and I hope all of you will see this is all of our calling. Jesus is the mediator for ALL Christians not just some made up literal number. God has used this organization to bring his name Jehovah to the world which is a good thing but they are also the man of lawlesness and have caused the downfall of many good Christains. They will be held accountable when Christ returns. Don’t follow them into destruction but take your only hope of the heavenly calling while there is still time. May Jehoavh bless all of you and I consider you all my Christian Brothers and Sisters. May Jehovah bless you to see the truth. Be faithful to God’s word not men’s. If any of you wish to contact me via email here is my address craigknigh@aol.com

    • Cathii D’Anthonii

      Really Craig????? The Jews were rejected…thats very simple. Why are you having so much trouble with this? The 144,000 versus an unnumbered group as the great crowd is not hard. DONT succomb to christiandoms emotional “born again” showy display of self-righteousnesa…the truth is simple. Don’t walk off from the truth…Jehovah will deal with the WTS…Christ died for everyone who ever lived on this planet.. please rethink what you are doing…the memorial emblems are very sacred…

      • The Raven

        Yep. That’s how they are, so above us all. Guess most of us are tongue tied and twisted, earth bound misfits…

      • Craig Knight

        WT speaks of the little flock who were the Jews in Jesus day. WT tries to create 2 separate groups into the great crowd and the 144,000. But they are all one flock one shepherd. The little flock is just another word used incorrectly in WT literature. Read Revelation 7:15 Where are the Great Crowd??? Why do you choose WT terminology over the Bible. WT says the Great Crowd are going to be on the earth the Bible says they are IN heaven. Make your choice WT or the Bible.

        • Cathii D’Anthonii

          A great crowd of angels are always before Jehovah ..not hard..I haven’t read a wt. In 20 years , You read the Bible, quit listening to stupid reasoning from people claiming they are inspired apostles…

          • The Raven

            Its the same old tired argument from some folks. Its always the WT this or the WT that even when the Wt is NOT involved. That poor horse is dead and his ghost is screaming for mercy but the beatings continue.
            The fact of the matter is that truth is truth regardless.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Absolutely.

            • Island Breeze

              Raven, I like to play you a song tonight as another one falls pray to the Angel of light.
              https://youtu.be/gNzQgjgHn-0

            • The Raven

              Lol! You’ve got a knack for this, man. Hah! I don’t think anyone here is a watchtowerite and we may differ on a few minor points but stuff like that makes me wonder if its skunk, dank or diesel. 😝

        • I am making my choice. Good bye

        • symbolic or not, take a look at the scripture again.

          there is a group that is NUMBERED and it is established who that NUMBER is. no question.
          then suddenly there is a vast group that NO MAN CAN NUMBER and it is NOT established who they are so John brings up that question.

          did you catch that?

          two diffetent folds. the very point of that scripture.

      • Nigel

        “DONT succomb to christiandoms emotional “born again” showy display of self-righteousnesa

        Compare:

        “Very truly I tell you, NO ONE can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

        “Very truly I tell you, NO ONE can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.”

        John 3:3,5 NIV

        • Why do persons who will live on the earth forever as humans need to be born again?

          • Arvid Fløysand

            What would it take for Adam to return to the garden of Eden?
            As humans we would say…thats impossible…
            what if he was born again?…pure,clean with no sin?
            if so…all Adams ofspring would inherit eternal life…and get acsess to the tree of life..

            Nothing is impossible for our heavenly father Jehovah God…Adam was born again as the second Adam…we can be born again by him and get acsess to the garden of Eden again…that is the Kingdom of heaven…Jehovah never step back on anything at all…it was perfect from the beginning…the original purpose with us humans will be fulfilled when all is restored back to the garden of Eden…we just have to be born again by the new second born again Adam who is Jesus…

            Maybe you will say that i am a fool…and if so,i agree….i am really a fool…and thats why i am so grateful for the ransom of Christ…by him and the love of our father Jehovah it has been possible for even a fool like me to walk back home to my father..
            He…Jehovah is the father in the parable of Jesus who run towards us when he sees us on long distance…this is why we have learned by Jesus to pray for the Kingdom to come on earth as in heaven…so that everything can be united and restored back to the original…renewed…made new again..the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven…Jehovah`s tent beeing on earth over his people and He will be with us again like He was with Adam…only by beeing born again by the second Adam,we can enter the Kingdom of new paradise earth…flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom…the only way is by putting on the spiritual utter garment refered to as “white robes”…The first Adam used to have a” whithe robe”…he lost it when he rebelled…thats why he felt “nakend”….we are “nakend” to until we get a “white robe”

            The second Adam-Jesus never lost his “white robe”…that is the holyness that our spiritual part of our body needs to wear in order to enter the restored and united Kingdom on earth…heaven and earth united by marriage…do this make you angry ore happy?

            • Beverly kenyon

              Arvid, that makes me very happy. It’s so wonderful what you’ve written how we need to be ‘born again’ by the new second born again Adam….Jesus.

              I just knew when you wrote about Jacob’s Ladder months ago in a post of yours it was to be heaven and earth being united as one just as it was in the beginning and it being the most natural thing to happen. Why would that be impossible as you just have to look around at creation, and know nothing is impossible with God. Like any Father he wants to be close and interact with his children.

              Brilliant point about Adam losing his ‘white robe’ as we need God to clothe us in something perfect, righteousness and eternal.

              ‘ I delight greatly in the Lord; my soul rejoices in my God. For He has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness.’ Isaiah 61:10

              Every Christian should be striving to obtain that ‘white robe’, the spiritual outer garment.

            • Do you think you answered the question I posed as to why persons who live on earth forever would need to be born again? Do you even know what it means to be born again? It would not appear so.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Proverbs 12:23 🙂

            • I see. So, your plaster a lot of gobbledygook in response to a serious question, whom some readers might actually be interested in. Then you pass yourself off as being shrewd for not answering the question. I’ll tell ya, I am going to start bouncing some of you people. I am sick of your games.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              I did not say who is the shrewd and who is the fool ….you did!
              If you look closer to my coment you will see for yourself that i called myself a fool…
              I gave you the choise and you made it that way…Natan did the similar to king David…

            • You don’t make any sense. But that is allowed.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I think what does come across Arvid, is that this rhetoric is in fact a game of words, or tripping people with words, of hidden meanings, of ambiguity. As such, it does not have a place here where ordinary folk, uninterested in point scoring or arguing, simply want to question and explain reasonably. The attitude is one of learning and listening, not of being perfect in understanding, for that is unobtainable, but to attain instead, an understanding that within us, reflects the truth, or in other words, faith. Faith is necessary because we cannot know the truth of these things ( other than the basics ) until they are revealed to us. Thus, for our own protection, the word of Jehovah admonishes us to be humble in our learning and put things to the test. And if we do not have the insight to put it to the test, the scripture advises us to wait until we have grown in maturity. Some of us, and I include myself in this, may never reach that level of maturity or insight and thus do not argue the point, lest we argue against the bible, the wisdom of Jehovah, Himself. That is just wisdom. And it is wisdom to accept that lest we make fools of ourselves. Thankfully, we can be ignorant, but retain the wisdom to realise that we are. The saving grace for those ignorant people, is called humility and which is admired equally by Jehovah. Thus being the case, we can please our father in both manners.

            • Nigel

              (This comment may be a reply to yours, brother King, but it is addressed to all.)

              All humans will need to be born again with Holy Spirit because we are unable to fulfil God’s righteous law without it.

              For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Rom 8:3,4 NIV

              The Jews had the Law but were unable to fulfil it in their own strength:

              Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?” Acts 15:10 NIV

              Furthermore, the Law never made anyone perfect:

              Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless. For the law never made anything perfect. But now we have confidence in a better hope, through which we draw near to God.” Heb 7:18,19 NIV

              What makes anyone think that mankind will suddenly be able to obey the law perfectly in the New System of Things without becoming “new persons” (or in other words” “new creations”)!!?? 6000 years have amply proven that man cannot obey God perfectly in his own strength & effort.

              As it is written: ‘There is no one righteous, not even one’. [F]or all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” Rom 3:10,23 NIV

              Notice that it is the SPIRIT that gives life, NOT the Law:

              He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” 2 Cor 3:6 NIV

              But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.” Rom 8:10,11 NIV

              And isn’t that we’re seeking? Eternal life in the presence of Jah?

              Jehovah intends to write His laws on our hearts so that we act righteously (perfectly) by nature, a new nature – aka being born again:

              You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.” 2 Cor 3:3 NIV

              Compare:

              ““This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord.“I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the Lord. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” Jer 31:33-34 NIV

              Notice that is ONLY the “fruit of the Spirit” that produces characteristics of a Godly nature:

              But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” Gal 5:22,23

              One CANNOT bring forth the fruit of the Spirit… …without the Spirit!!

              Furthermore, one cannot truly understand spiritual matters without Spirit:

              these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” 1 Cor 2:10-14 NIV

              If you remain WITHOUT Spirit, you can only be “in the flesh”, and:

              The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.” Gal 5:19-21

              And:

              Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.” Rom 8:8 NIV

              Finally:

              For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.” Rom 8:13,14

              Please, someone – ANYONE, prove me wrong using just the Bible!

              Honestly, I would welcome someone to scripturally prove me wrong because then I would get ever-closer to the truth! But be careful: if you can’t prove me wrong from the scriptures you may actually find yourself fighting against God on this. I am supremely confident that my position above is based on the New Testament and has the backing of Jehovah God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. I defy any of you to prove me wrong.

              If YOU, dear reader, wish to truly overcome your weaknesses, become truly righteous, enjoy a truly personal relationship with Jehovah unlike any you’ve enjoyed until now and you long for true peace & joy, ASK JEHOVAH FOR HIS HOLY SPIRIT NOW.

              If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” Luke 11:13 NIV

              Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” Acts 2:38,39 NIV

              (And, for the record: I don’t believe “all go to heaven”; it’s my understanding that most of us (if not all of us) will be here on earth. “God’s tent will be with mankind”. And, in case any are wondering: I do not believe in the Trinity, either.)

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Nigel

              Why are you so desperate to be proved wrong?

            • Nigel

              Because I’m confident that I’m not.

            • Jamie Mac

              Well it’s certainly nice to have that type of confidence. I too have confidence knowing that if I die and Jehovah finds me worthy, He will resurrect me.

            • Nigel

              And He will, dear brother. You have every reason to be confident in that hope.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I don’t see that being born again means to be filled with Holy Spirit. In the context it appears rather to refer to one coming to an understanding of the need to take on the sacrifice and follow Jesus, enduring as he did. It is not possible, even for those called to be annointed to be without sin. Paul was certainly not perfect. I would imagine that such perfection would come at the moment of being approved upon death. As was Christ who had to die to oat fir us. And even basic understanding of Jehovah would lead one to understand, that if Jehovah is to annoint with Holy Spirit, it is in full measure at the time, bar life eternal and not a growth process. Take for example when those who were annointed, started speaking in tongues immediately, and were able to heal. Well that stopped on their death. Clearly then, dying seems to indicate a lack of perfection for men, and if someone can die, (Christ laid down his life voluntarily) then they come into the catagory of being a sinner, under Adam. We are all at present unable to fulfil Jehovah’s law, as were those whom were annointed 2000 years ago in the upper room. For the annointed, their transformation is instantaneous, for the great crowd it is a testing period with no anointing until they reach the standard through obedience. After all, the test of obedience was there for Adam, and he was perfect, but not annointed.

            • Nigel

              Brother Burt, you have not quoted a single scripture to support your private interpretation. Come back to us when you do.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              What’s your point, Nigel? Everyone here read a the Bible over and over again.
              Born again = losing a human body and becoming an immortal spirt..new creation = new creature,
              What’s Your piont???a new sect??
              The Four Square Church holy rollers preach the same as you…plus they see things that make them r.oll on the floor..
              I’m not the brightest light bulb but man, you make no sense at all.

            • Nigel

              Born again does NOT mean “losing a human body and becoming an immortal spirt”, it means receiving the Holy Spirit. If you firmly believe otherwise, please provide scriptural support for your belief.

              Read John 3:3-5 and 1 John 3:9.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              So why do you think anyone here needs a lesson on being filled with a holy spirit???Or need the Bible copied and pasted over and over??You don’t get to the point…

            • Nigel

              Because if even just one person who reads the scriptures I quoted above learns the truth of this matter and acts on it, then it will be worth all of the persecution levelled at me. I implore you, sister Cathii, ask Jehovah in prayer if what I’ve written above is the truth or not. He cannot lie.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I think you are fantasizing if you think you are being persecuted here for your beliefs. If you are feeling persecuted it’s because you are just plain rude and arrogant. What you interpret as persecution is simply feedback. You’ll know persecution when it comes. We have all read the scriptures you quoted and have not found them to be true as you say above. Why keep on.?

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Trust me when I tell you…You are NOT the one,I follow ..You don’t know me and have never met me don’t know anything about my life..
              When you accuse people here of “following a man”, aren’t you trying to insert yourself into Jehovah’s place? Oh wait; THE WATCHTOWER already did that..Whats your point???

            • Nigel

              “Trust me when I tell you…You are NOT the one,I follow”

              Good. I’m pleased to hear that.

              “When you accuse people here of “following a man”, aren’t you trying to insert yourself into Jehovah’s place?”

              NOT AT ALL.

              FOLLOW JEHOVAH GOD & JESUS CHRIST ONLY; NOT ME, NOT ROBERT KING, NOT THE WTS, NO ONE!!!

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              So, why are YOU here, to follow Robert?
              By the way, I appreciate when a man can apologize the Brother King .That was the right thing to do

            • Nigel

              I’m here because I grew up as a JW and I believe brother King’s understanding of prophecy has been given him by the Holy Spirit. I am convinced he has been appointed by Jehovah God & Jesus Christ to expose the falsehoods of the Watchtower’s 1914 doctrine. And I always appreciate his updates on world events and how they relate to scripture.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Nigel, I suggest that you Tell that to Abraham. He never quoted a scripture either. He verbally expressed his love of Jehovah and I will continue to express mine with the words of encouragement and unity to those who can quote scripture or feel the same way. For your manner in quoting scripture neither makes you an approachable person, a believable messenger, or one that anyone would want to take counsel from. So of what point is your ministry if you simply distance and insult people who disagree? I care not if you think my opinions are thin. Thankfully and with much relief on my part, you are not the judge of such. If you think your knowledge is somehow sanctified by quoting verse, then you have built your house of reasoning upon sand. Satan quoted scripture too, and with more accuracy I might add and even his demons understood who Christ was and his purposes. Would you mind directing your bile at Raven or Kevin for a while rather than me? I think it’s their turn now for a while. Thank you.

            • Beverly kenyon

              ‘because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws.’ Genesis 26:5. ESV

              ‘For I have chosen him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the LORD may bring Abraham what he has promised him.’ Genesis 18:19. ESV

              Reading those above Holy Scriptures it’s fair to say that Abraham DID quote scripture Burt. To command his children to keep God’s commandments, statutes and Laws wouldn’t he have to QUOTE scripture?

              But pardon me for quoting Holy Scripture that’s built on sand.

            • Beverly kenyon

              👏🏽🙏🏽🙌🏽 XX

            • Anderiega

              👍👍👍

            • I didn’t bother to read your copy-and-paste fest beyond the first sentence, because at that point it became obvious to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. You said: “To be born again means to receive the Holy Spirit and thus have a new nature created in us; a nature that is not prone to sin but prone to love & righteousness.”

              That is probably how an evangelical would explain being “born again,” having given up liquor and womens and all, how the lord re-borned me. Okay. Given your definition of reborn, answer this: Why was it necessary for Jesus to be born again?

            • because flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom. tee hee

            • Anderiega

              Isn’t our Christian baptism the outward symbol of being born again? Dying to our old self and being reborn in Christ?

            • Daisy

              Some bible translations say “born anew” which makes Christ’s words seem more logical and shows Nicodemus’ mindset far removed from spiritual understanding… 🙂

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Hello Arvid I thought you might enjoy this article
              A New Covenant for a New Creation
              January 30th, 2007|Page Two
              …spirit God caused the creation of something entirely new that had never before existed. On the day of his baptism Jesus was born again as a spiritual son of God. Jesus once explained to a curious Pharisee named Nicodemus what it meant to be born again, when he told him:…Read more>
              https://e-watchman.com/new-covenant-new-creation/

            • Bklyn Kevin
            • The Raven

              It’s pretty simple isn’t it?
              The days are cut short lest all flesh perish.
              So much for the idea that all of us will die and either go to heaven unwillingly to become a spirit or gehenna.
              It’s got to be one of the stupidest doctrines I’ve ever heard from these nouveaux “christionites”.
              At least christendom gives us a little trinitarian mystery to kick around. The prospects for some of them surviving look better than these folks. One never had the truth. The other rejected it.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I agree It’s definitely one of the stupidest doctrines to date I know of but you have to give them an A for creativity…

            • The Raven

              No. ☠

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Well I’m trying to be nice, some here had mentioned to me that I need to work on that quality.

            • The Raven

              Lol! That’s funny.

            • Nigel

              You are calling Jehovah stupid, then.

            • Southern ShaSha

              Hi Raven. I’ll say I’m one of the stupidest, not sure if that’s really a word but does give more clout to stupid! So little I know when it comes to prophesy understanding but what little I do it’s a firm and logical understanding. I do appreciate the fact you and Kevin even get a meaning out of it. There are so many unknowns, interesting to think on, maybe even wish for it to be so but that’s the best we can do. But if I’ve learned one thing, it’s to really ponder over what seems so contrary to the clear understanding we glean from the scriptures, so many have taken a turn into a fog of unexplainable confusion. Kinda like when we were kids and changed our answer on a test although we were certain the answer was correct. Some times we over think ourselves, human thinking, sets us up to be easily deceived. Scriptural thinking, Jehovah is not allowing us to fill in the blanks because when we do we can bet we are going to be wrong. The Bible is not multiple choice, it’s either there for our eyes to see, or not. After I reread my comment to you, I wasn’t clear as to the meaning you and Kevin get out of it, meaning what others have stated, indifference as to what the scriptures clearly say, I couldn’t even comprehend the point they were trying to get across. Well, I must just keep plugging along, learning bits and pieces with heavy prayer to Jehovah to help me always along the way!
              That’s my only hope and the best I can do for now!

            • The Raven

              Hi. I get where you’re coming from. That’s right, the bible isn’t multiple choice. Some folks wish it was . There is no great mystery to the basic truths and I’m confident Jehovah has given humanity the capacity to understand that much through His words. If some of what we discussed puzzles you feel free to ask. It’s probably from on going discussions you may not have seen, so I wouldn’t worry about it. It can appear disjointed at times through disqus and that doesn’t help. Good to see you again! 😊

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Reading the Bible keeps me from falling into deep depressions. .There is someone there who really cares about what happens to humanity, our heavenly Father Jehovah, who wants us to understand the Bible and his son who volunteered to buy us back
              With his life..What a wonderful book..I told my kids the Bible is the manufacturers instructions on How to live. The watchtower over the last few years has become enemic..but here you can Research and dig and read.. totally awsome!!!

            • The Raven

              That’s good to know Cathii. I’m glad it helps you find peace. For someone who’s been through as much as you have and still manage to keep your faith and a healthy equalibrium concerning Jehovah’s people and life in general speaks to your character.
              We are few who still hold fast to what is fine even in light of the serious revelations of judgements against them. I’m so glad to know folks like you and Mikiel. Yes, we’ve been brought here by Jehovah and many like you are very happy to study, learn and encourage each other to strengthen our faith.

            • The Raven

              Btw, shasha, don’t sell yourself short on knowlege and wisdom about Jehovah’s truths and life experiences. You have plenty and I’ve learned from you through our discussions.

          • Nigel

            Please see my answer below.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Helpful insight. Thanks.

    • Bklyn Kevin
    • Island Breeze

      You be double toking!?!

    • The Raven

      Well, what would you say to one who was never “brainwashed” by the WT? There are a number of problems with this view. I have known since childhood I was not going to heaven or hell. It was a natural, almost instinctive understanding of what it meant to be a human being on this earth. I kept it simple no matter how hard preachers and teachers tried to make me “see” things their way. Before I spoke this language I got a good feel for folks who were a very big part of the problems humanity has, yet wished to “fly away” and leave the rest of us, “unworthy slobs” to our doom.
      Well to blazes with that thinking. It is IMO the epitome of arrogance to believe that just because we “believe”, we get a free pass out of here and all we have to do is die faithful. Not buying it.
      The WT has not shut the door to anyone at all. In fact, they correctly recognized that the vast majority had no heavenly hopes, much to their relief. They fully wanted to be part of the earthly kingdom, ruled by the Christ’s heavenly one. Simple. That’s how I’ve always seen it long before I ever met them.
      If all believers are to be killed and what’s left on this earth are the “gentiles” then we already know they perish. If the earth is to be populated by nothing but the returning dead, then pray tell who are these people who will take plunder and bury the bones of the dead if not the survivors of the tribulation?
      What of those who Jehovah spares…and there are numerous examples of this? What of those who are “probably” spared the hour of test, yet survive? It appears to me a very narrow minded view to think that the only people saved are those who have a heavenly calling and you believe that all should have that calling to survive? And the WT is shutting the door???
      I cannot wrap my head around this. Maybe it’s because even in their prophetic errors and evil influence the WT view appears to be more inclusive and hopeful than yours.
      To want to be a subject of the kingdom of heaven when it manifests on earth is one thing. To become an immortal spirit, a new creation; no longer human…is another.

      • Craig Knight

        If you want to refuse to believe in God’s love that’s your problem. There isn’t one verse in the NT that says if you don’t want to partake as Christ told us to do that you could choose plan B and decide for yourself that you want to live on the earth. There is only one hope for Christians and that is to become part of the new covenant. The false idea of 2 separate groups is a WT fallacy! You have had these buzz words GREAT CROWD and ANOINTED crammed into your brain like I did for so many years. Argue with the Bible not me Rev 7:15 Stop ignoring this verse!!!

        • The Raven

          Wrong again on many counts and you are the one choosing to ignore scriptural facts. To ASSUME such is indicative of a person who has allowed the devil to find and exploit his own faults and biases. Plan B? You choose to ignore all the evidence that millions will survive ON THIS EARTH, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Daniel, and on and on. The danger in that belief is that YOU will be in direct opposition to the sons of God believing that we can decide who Jehovah chooses by the mere wish to be among them. It doesn’t work that way. You are in fact allowing yourself to be misled into thinking we are something we are not. I am honest about this. My position is supported by scripture.

          Well lets examine this further. Nothing in that verse proves they are IN heaven.
          Start here:

          9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd,+ which no man was able to number, out of all nations*+ and tribes and peoples+ and tongues,+ standing before the throne+ and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches+ in their hands. 10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation* [we owe] to our God,+ who is seated on the throne,+ and to the Lamb.”+
          Here are the corresponding verses as well:

          Matthew 25:34
          34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, YOU who have been blessed by my Father,a inherit b the kingdom c prepared for YOU from the founding* of the world.d
          John 10:16
          16 “And I have other sheep,a which are not of this fold;b those also I must bring,* and they will listen to my voice,c and they will become one flock, one shepherd.d
          Revelation 22:17
          17 And the spirit*a and the bride b keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!”c And let anyone thirsting come;d let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.e
          Leviticus 23:40
          40 And YOU must take for yourselves on the first day the fruit of splendid trees, the fronds of palm trees a and the boughs of branch y trees and poplars of the torrent valley, and YOU must rejoice b before Jehovah YOUR God seven days.
          John 12:13
          13 took the branches of palm trees a and went out to meet him. And they began to shout:b “Save, we pray you!*c Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s* name,d even the king e of Israel!”

          Titus 2:10
          10 not committing theft,*a but exhibiting good fidelity to the full,b so that they may adorn the teaching of our Savior,c God, in all things.
          Jude 1:25
          25 to [the] only God our Savior*a through Jesus Christ b our Lord, be glory,c majesty, might d and authority e for all past eternity*f and now and into all eternity.g Amen.h

          Now here:

          13 And in response one of the elders+ said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes,+ who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one that knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation,+ and they have washed their robes and made them white+ in the blood+ of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before+ the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service*+ day and night in his temple;* and the One seated on the throne+ will spread his tent+ over them. 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat,+ 17 because the Lamb,+ who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd+ them, and will guide them to fountains of waters+ of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”+

          Corresponding verses:
          Isaiah 1:18
          18 “Come, now, YOU people, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah.a “Though the sins of YOU people should prove to be as scarlet,* they will be made white just like snow;b though they should be red like crimson cloth, they will become even like wool.
          John 1:29
          29 The next day he beheld Jesus coming toward him, and he said: “See, the Lamb a of God that takes away the sin b of the world!*c

          Psalm 11:4
          4 Jehovah is in his holy temple.a
          Jehovah—in the heavens is his throne.b
          His own eyes behold, his own beaming eyes* examine c the sons of men.*
          Matthew 4:10
          10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah* your God you must worship,a and it is to him alone b you must render sacred service.’”*c

          Luke 2:37
          37 and she was a widow a now eighty-four years old), who was never missing from the temple, rendering sacred service* night and day b with fasting s and supplications.

          Psalm 15:1
          15 O Jehovah, who will be a guest in your tent?a
          Who will reside in your holy mountain?b
          Revelation 21:3
          3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent*a of God is with mankind, and he will reside*b with them, and they will be his peoples.c And God himself will be with them.d

          Isaiah 49:10
          10 They will not go hungry,a neither will they go thirsty,b nor will parching heat or sun strike them.c For the One who is having pity* upon them will lead them,d and by the springs of water he will conduct them.e

          Matthew 25:32
          32 And all the nations will be gathered before him,a and he will separate b people one from another,c just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

          Revelation 22:1
          22 And he showed me a river of water of life,a clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb b

          Isaiah 25:8
          8 He will actually swallow up death forever,a and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces.b And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth,*c for Jehovah himself has spoken [it].
          Revelation 21:4
          4 And he will wipe out every tear a from their eyes, and death will be no more,b neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.c The former things have passed away.”d

        • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

          Here’s a very simple explanation to your dilemma. The model prayer, says “Let your kingdom Come on Earth as it is in Heaven…..Doesn’t sound like God is bringing us up there ..

          • The Raven

            ^ That ^ 😁

    • Beverly kenyon

      ‘When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, Who do people say that the Son of Man is?’
      ‘Well,’ they replied, ‘some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah, and others say Jeremiah or one of the other prophets.’
      Then he asked them, ‘But who do you say I am?’
      Simon Peter answered, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God’.
      Jesus replied, ‘You are blessed Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being. Matthew16:13-17. NLT

      God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. 1Corinthians 1:9. NASB

      What a beautiful thing it is Craig, to have the Christ revealed to a person and to also be called into fellowship with Christ, by the Father in heaven. God himself reveals the Christ and then calls you or invites you into fellowship with his Son as true fellowship involves getting together for spiritual purposes and the early Christian devoted themselves to it, it was a priority. Acts 2:42. NIV

      Like you I will continue to follow the command of Jesus Christ to eat of his flesh and drink his blood as it means my eternal life. I also want to abide in the Christ.

      But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise that person at the last day. John6:54. NIV

      ‘He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him’. John6:56 NASB

      • The falsity of your reasoning is evident by the simple fact that billions of people, most of which have never even heard of Jesus, let alone accepted him as Jehovah’s representative, will receive a resurrection. Christ was not their mediator when they were alive, was he? Is Christ the mediator of Muslims? Hindus? Atheists? What fool would believe that? And yet the sect of Ray Franz isolates a passage from the Bible to say that Jesus is mediator for all mankind. But if the dead are brought to life on earth without Jesus’ mediation, why is it necessary for those who are not born again, whose hope is to live on earth under Christ’s rule, to have his mediation? Of course, none of you can answer that question.

        • Beverly kenyon

          Thank you for your reply but I have no idea whatsoever what the sect of Ray Franz is, as well, I didn’t mention anything to with ‘born again’ so I’m not understanding the point.

          Is it to do with our religious beliefs or is it to do with our sinfulness that Jesus is mediator for?

          What I do understand is that the WT similar to the Catholic Church has created a class of ‘popes’ to intercede for the rank & file members. They have been given special power by the WT to act not only as mediator but as a secondary saviour for mankind. According to a WT, November 15, 1979, it quotes, ‘to keep in a relationship, with our Saviour God, the Great crowd’ needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Isrealites.

          For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity–the man Christ Jesus. 1Timothy2:5. NLT

          • Craig Knight

            That’s correct Beverly! Who wants those blind guides to mediate over them! That’s absurd nonsense. Jesus is the mediator for all Christians who are called to heavenly life.

            • Burt Reynolds

              There are blind guides, but there are true guides too. And they are here for a reason. If you feel you need to go Craig, I will be sorry to see you go, but let’s not do it with arguing and aspersions. This site is just learning and discussion. Jehovahs mercy will decide if we put ourselves in the way of it. I wish you well and enjoyed having you with us.

        • Craig Knight

          Jesus is the mediator for ALL of those with the heavenly calling. Those who get resurrected to the earth because they never had that opportunity will fall under Christ’s ransom sacrifice. Christ bought all of the human race with his shed blood. So the billions of people who get resurrected to earth will not be a part of the new covenant but will be covered under the ransom provision. Stop referring to Franz trying to put people down. Why don’t you man up and answer my question about Rev 7:15. The Great Crowd are IN heaven. By carrying on this great crowd WT idea you are closing the door of the kingdom in people’s faces!!!

          • I have answered that question about the great crowd many times. But you know it all don’t you?

        • Nigel

          Those billions who never heard/accepted Jesus Christ as Lord prior to His return are not resurrected to eternal life, they are resurrected to judgement. They will need Jesus’ mediation in His Millennial Reign to survive beyond the Great White Throne judgement.

          Those “Christians” who refuse to obey Jesus’ words now but who are fortunate enough to survive into the next age will not find themselves “God’s favoured people”, they will be just like the billions of others who will need to receive the Holy Spirit (and walk in the spirit) and require Jesus’ mediation.

          The teaching that there is a class of “Christians” who do not require Jesus’ mediation now is patently false – and dangerous.

          • You really walked into it there. According to the Scriptures the 144,000 holy ones are going to be kings and priests along with Christ for the 1,000 years. If Christ is the mediator of those resurrected to earth, which he is not, but if he were, than so are the 144,000. That thought ought to be enough to drive a lot of exJW’s into a fit of madness. The problem is there is a lack of understanding about what Christ’s mediation is all about.

            But in a nut shell, Jesus mediates a new covenant. The new covenant is intended to produce the new creation, which is the 144,000 immortals, over whom the second death will have no power. Christ’s mediation in their behalf imparts to them sinless perfection. That is not the case with those resurrected as imperfect humans, as you yourself acknowledge by pointing out that it is a resurrection of judgment. But the rulership and priestly services in their behalf by Christ and the 144,000 ultimately bring many to life and perfection. It will just take a while.

            And to put a finer point on it, the new covenant is concluded when Christ returns, which precedes the 1,000 years and the earthly resurrection. That is why Paul said the evening meal was only until he arrives.

            • Max

              You are right brother King we do have very little understanding of Christ mediation. Why don’t you write an article about it please? It’s such an important subject and shame on us for not knowing it throughly.

            • The Raven

              He’s written a lot about this subject. Here is what I found in a quick search. There are also more articles and videos explaining the distinction between anointed and others on this thread below.

              https://e-watchman.com/?s=Mediation

            • The Raven

              This one is very detailed. It’s older and the formatting is a little off but he addresses all the concerns about the subject:

              https://e-watchman.com/new-covenant-new-creation/

            • Max

              Thank you Raven!

            • The Raven

              I hope that helps. It took a while to understand this. The nice thing about the articles are the numerous scriptural references for convenience. So those who wish to can look it up. It saves a lot of time. The jw.org website has bible online and easy way to cross reference scriptures as well and there are other sites too. It’s sad that some folks think these articles are stand alone essays. They are simply a starting point with fairly good reasoning for deeper study as long as people aren’t too lazy to read. That’s where many of us have come to gain better insight into prophecy.

            • Nigel

              You wrote:

              According to the Scriptures the 144,000 holy ones are going to be kings and priests along with Christ for the 1,000 years. If Christ is the mediator of those resurrected to earth, which he is not, but if he were, than so are the 144,000.”

              Yet, astonishingly, not a few sentences later you basically state that very thing:

              But the rulership and priestly services in their behalf by Christ and the 144,000 ultimately bring many to life and perfection.”

              As it is, the 144000 will be members of the Body of Christ, with Jesus as the Head. It stands to reason, then, that in their kingly & priestly role they will dutifully & obediently assist Jesus in his mediation for mankind, given that the 144000 will be one in Christ. Yet Jesus, alone, shed His blood for mankind and He, alone, is King of Kings & Lord of Lords so he remains the mediator.

              You can twist it any which way you like, but the scripture is clear that there is ONE mediator between God & man: Jesus Christ. (I.e. If you are a member of mankind, this applies to you.)

              “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.” 1 Tim 2:5 NWT

              (Notice that this ransom is “for all”.)

              You also wrote in a comment to sister Beverly above:

              The falsity of your reasoning is evident by the simple fact that billions of people, most of which have never even heard of Jesus, let alone accepted him as Jehovah’s representative, will receive a resurrection. Christ was not their mediator when they were alive, was he? Is Christ the mediator of Muslims? Hindus? Atheists? What fool would believe that?

              Yet you are forgetting that mediation can only occur between willing and informed parties; if one (informed) party refuses to negotiate terms of peace they are, simply put, an enemy – and we know what happens to Jehovah’s enemies. (And obviously those who are uninformed/unaware of the existence of potential mediation (or even whom they’re negotiating with) will not enter mediation.) But for those who wish to be reconciled to God, Jesus Christ is their mediator and the scriptures give no indication that there will be any change to that in the Millennial Reign.

              Compare:

              “Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” Acts 4:12 NWT

              (Since those resurrected to judgement in Jesus’ Millennial Reign will still require full salvation, that name is for them also.)

              You also wrote in reply to sister Beverly:

              But if the dead are brought to life on earth without Jesus’ mediation, why is it necessary for those who are not born again, whose hope is to live on earth under Christ’s rule, to have his mediation? Of course, none of you can answer that question.

              In answer to that:

              The dead are not “brought to life on earth” upon their resurrection, they are resurrected to judgement. The resurrected dead only receive “life” at the end of the 1000 Years:

              “…The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended…” Rev 20:5 NWT

              Furthermore, all who wish to “see” and “enter” the Kingdom of God will require the new birth:

              “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.” John 3:3,5 NWT

              You also wrote in reply to me:

              the new covenant is concluded when Christ returns, which precedes the 1,000 years and the earthly resurrection.

              Yet that statement stands in direct contrast to scripture:

              “Now may the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep, our Lord Jesus, with the blood of an everlasting covenant” Heb 13:20 NWT

              Certainly, as you are wont of arguing, the results of the New Covenant are everlasting, but let us not forget what the chief purpose of the New Covenant is:

              “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people. And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah. “For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.” Jer 31:33,34 NWT

              Obviously that aim is not limited to the 144000 (who, interestingly, may not represent the sum total of “Israel” given that they are “sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel” (Rev 7:4 NWT)). Equally as obvious is that those who are resurrected are not resurrected as perfect people; otherwise why would they be resurrected to a “resurrection of judgement”?

              The fact is, there will still be wrongdoing by those resurrected ones and it will only be by means of Jesus’ blood and mediation that they will have forgiveness and eventually attain to perfection.

              (There will, naturally, be a much lesser degree of wrongdoing then since Satan will have been confined to the abyss and will be unable to influence mankind; yet the passions of the flesh will still require control & overcoming.)

              Since Jehovah will have nothing to do with sin (Isa 59:2), Jesus’ intervention & mediation will most certainly be required, even then. Or do you suppose that imperfect mankind will somehow circumvent the need for Jesus Christ and access Jehovah directly?

              Compare:

              “Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all.” John 15:5 NWT

              You continued:

              That is why Paul said the evening meal was only until he arrives.”

              But why do we partake in the Lord’s evening meal?

              To remember Him & what he has done for us:

              “…Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” Luke 22:19 NWT

              “…Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 1 Cor 11:24 NWT

              We won’t need to “remember” Jesus when He returns as King; He will be present. Compare:

              “…The friends of the bridegroom have no reason to mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, do they?…” Matt 9:15 NWT

            • You either do not understand what Jesus’ mediation is or you do not accept it. You like to confuse Jesus’ mediation with his ransom. They are not the same thing. Jesus is the mediator of a new covenant – period. That’s it. The new covenant produces the new creation. The new creation are credited with perfection. They do not grow into it as those who live for 1,000 years. You have to invent a job for Jesus as a mediator in the new world because there is no such thing. It is simply a fabrication of yours.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I understand it this way. Perhaps you would advise please: a mediator is one who brings two sides in disagreement together in resolution. This fits the role of the chosen. Their sin is resolved through Christ. As to the great crowd, they are not resolved in their sin, but learn and earn redemption through the 1000 years, eventually attaining perfection when This testing is over. Hence not mediated but earned .

            • Yes. Perhaps an even better word than earned is “obedience.” The people over which the Kingdom rules will obviously be given instructions and laws and it will be their obligation to obey. Their obeying the rulers of the Kingdom will be like drinking the waters of life that are imparted to them.

            • Nigel

              “(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.” Heb 7:19 NIV

              “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” 2 Cor 3:6

            • Nigel

              Perhaps I am “confused” – I don’t know it all – but as far as I can tell the ransom was the act that opened the way for mankind to approach God (through Jesus (John 14:6)) whilst’s Jesus’ mediation of the new covenant is a process. (Thus, I agree with you: the ransom and the mediation are not the same thing.)

              Furthermore, as far as I can tell, the new covenant is not limited to the 144000. The 144000 are simply chosen from all those in the new covenant. (Compare Rev 7:4.)

              You wrote:

              The new creation are credited with perfection”

              Indeed. We have righteousness by faith, even now. But those who rule and reign with Jesus are expected to be “conquerors” (Rev 2 & 3). They do not simply remain idle in their walk. Whilst they do not “earn” their salvation or position, they are expected to make sincere efforts. Compare:

              “Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling+ and choosing sure for yourselves, for if you keep on doing these things, you will by no means ever fail.” 2 Pet 2:10 NWT

              “Then Jesus said to his disciples: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake* and keep following me.” Matt 16:24 NWT

              “Moreover, may the Lord cause you to increase, yes, to abound in love for one another+ and for all, just as we do for you, 13 so that he may make your hearts firm, blameless in holiness before our God+ and Father at the presence of our Lord Jesus+ with all his holy ones.” 1 Thess 3:12,13 NWT

              “And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more+ with accurate knowledge+ and full discernment;” Phil 1:9 NWT

            • Approaching God through Christ is not what the mediation is. People had been praying to Jehovah for hundreds of years before Christ and God listened to them.

            • Nigel

              1. Whilst approaching God through Christ isn’t the “mediation” under discussion, it is a huge part of the process:

              “For there is… one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus” 1 Tim 2:5 NWT

              “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6 NIV

              2. Excepting unusual circumstances, one cannot pray to Jah in this epoch directly and expect to be heard.

            • Nigel

              Also, how about losing the attitude you’ve been displaying recently?

              e.g. “You really walked into it there.

              You’ve been name-calling and generally responding to people who may not share all of your beliefs with an impatient, proud & condescending tone in recent times; ill-fitting for a minister of God.

              Perhaps all of your men-pleasing worshippers here, whom you never seem to discourage elevating you & your writings as infallible, have affected you.

            • The Raven

              It appears to me the attitude fits the situation as your followers have stepped in it repeatedly by basically condemning us for refusing to accept their views. We stick to studying and reason, not ideas which come from a group of folks determined to snare others. That is exactly what’s been going on. So stuff it.

            • Nigel

              Give me a break. I don’t have, nor want, followers. Any who know me already know what I will make clear to you now:

              I always point people to Jehovah & Jesus.

              “Was [Nigel] crucified for you?” Emphatically: NO.

              “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name [JESUS] under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12 NIV

              You are not the only one who studies, by the way, Raven. The difference between me & you, however, is that I don’t study and view “the Book of Robert King” as inspired scripture yet you & your cohorts quote brother King like his words are inspired scripture.

              “Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.” Ps 146:3 NIV

            • The Raven

              Haha. Yet they are the ones who persistently attack members here all in the name of ” christian love” . Hahaha!. You don’t like Robert’s attitude, tough. It’s his site.

            • Nigel

              “They”?

              So you’re condemning me for the words of others?

              Surely you understand the principle of Ezekiel 18:20?

              But you’re right: it’s Brother King’s site and he is free to display any attitude he desires, yet:

              “…I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.” Matt 12:36 NIV

            • The Raven

              Look man, everyone here knows whats going on. Theyve sung your praises as the slung stones. And its a hell of a note to see you tell Robert to check his attitude when you come here and look to correct him on matters you are wrong on. I don’t care if you disavow your fan section. But that bs about folks here won’t cut it.

            • Nigel

              Stop it with the “fan section”, please.

              Again: I don’t want followers or fans. I would that all come to an accurate knowledge of truth, and that truth is found in none other than Jesus Christ.

              As for matters that I’m wrong on, I’ve noticed you haven’t provided any scriptural rebuttal to anything I’ve written; today or any other time.

              To be sure: I readily acknowledge that I do not know it all.. Heck, I don’t know much at all – but instead of trying to smear me, how about correcting me with scripture, if you believe I’m mistaken? I’m not too proud to admit when I’m wrong.

            • The Raven

              Hah. I think Robert has already done that. You brought up folks here and that’s what I replied to. It seems you were a little “irritated” by some here who recognize sound scriptural reasoning and equate that with adoration. That’s laughable.

            • Nigel

              He didn’t – and I have replied to him with an answer to his question. You can find it above.

              It’s you who has become irritated because the truth can do that to proud ones.

              You’re not even baptised, much less have the Spirit, yet you presume to be some sort of teacher and/or enforcer of God’s truth here. (You might not claim to be a teacher but your thoughts are on public display and you often persecute and/or mock those who don’t agree with your viewpoint.)

              Don’t think I’m asleep to Satan’s design. Compare:

              “This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.” Gal 2:4 NIV

              “I know your afflictions and your poverty–yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.” Rev 2:9 NIV

            • Daisy

              The other day, Jamie Mac asked Arvid if he’d been “lurking” when he posted, after a little time away.
              Arvid replied, yes…he was lurking to which Jamie said how good it was to hear from him ( something like that) then Arvid said, how great to know that someone else who was lurking , that he wished we all heard from…and…he meant..our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus. And Beverly sent me an e mail working out who the “lurker” we didn’t hear much from here was because i couldnt understand who Arvid was talking about…and I agree because its only when you Nigel and Arvid are posting , is there any
              appreciation for the new covenant mediatorship for ALL mankind.
              I’m no psychiatrist Nigel but i feel that its usually fear that brings out the fleshliness in man…fright makes them attack and its a weakness, a lack of one of the fruits of the spirit …self- control. Folk just can’t help themselves when God hasn’t “called them into fellowship with His son”
              Your love of righteousness is a joyful example of how much of Christ’s spirit is within you and I am proud to know and love you as a brother in Christ.
              I also love everyone else on this site, with all my heart. Peace brothers, please be good guys.

            • Nigel

              Praise the Lord. Hallelujah.

            • Max

              Give brother King a brake Nigel. Just imagine the immense pressure he is under. His assignment it is not by any measure an easy one, and his work and endurance over the years shows Jehovah has been supporting him. It is not about being followers of men Nigel it is only kindness toward a slave of God whom is trying very hard to do His will, and many have benefited through his work and his love for God and the truth.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Give Nigel a break too Max. Along with Arvid he is one of the most Christlike men on this blog and his record here will back that fact up by reading his disqus history. Everything he writes is backed up and I mean EVERYTHING by Holy Scripture. Imo, he refers to Holy Scripture and not to his own writings and btw, Max, aren’t we all slaves of God, including Nigel, trying to do His Will.

            • Max

              I’m not judging Nigel’s devotion to Christ Beverly nor his use of scripture. I’m just evoking kindness and respect for the work brother King does.

            • Beverly kenyon

              You’re right Max, there should be respect and kindness for RK and his work. Sometimes it’s draining just writing a reasonable coherant post so I can imagine how it must take it out of him churning out those articles and keeping the momentum going on the blog not to mention the editing and the maintenance of the blog and keeping it fresh and attractive and pleasing for ones to visit. I appreciate that from him and the hard work involved as I personally have benefitted from his blog and credit where credit is due.

              But I try to bear this scripture in mind.

              So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the Glory of God. 1Cor10:31. NLT

            • Bklyn Kevin

              In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted. But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.
              You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from what persons you learned them.
              2 Timothy 3:12-14. Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/bi12/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003014

            • Burt Reynolds

              That is an interesting translation where it uses the term ‘continue in the things you learned and were persuaded to believe from what persons you learned them from…’ Persuaded. Jesus expects people to be persuaded, so therefore there must be elements at work in that persuasion. We know them to be ‘reasonableness’ and by context and continuity, yet man continues to intervene in that process, neglecting the context and continuity without which, reasoning becomes flawed. Also, persuasion demands that a person is comfortable in what they have learnt and find it dependable. Yet dependability demands insight into core values, here meaning Love, and along with it, the understanding and implications of what love demands. Do you recall Victor from last year who carried off a few with promises of a revelation of Holy Spirit at last years Memorial? A good example of poorly founded reasoning and self absorption. One has to submit to the reasonableness of biblical persuasion and thus found ones commitment upon a firm foundation. Rather puts yesterday’s debacle in its proper light.

            • The Raven

              I hadn’t thought about that but you’re right. I don’t know about the episode you speak of but I see what you’re saying.
              I have to constantly step back away from details to get the bigger picture and see how they fit in the overall narrative.
              If I get a sense that an isolated verse requires massaging with a sledge hammer, destroying or ignoring the whole, then logic dictates it must fit somewhere else and I have not found its place or in some cases, is yet to be revealed.
              When I have been shown the proper placement and now have a very good idea of the whole through reasonable explanation it is incumbent upon me to set aside my wishes or views and let the truth speak. Once that foundation is established good teachers help us fortify it. Bad ones demand we tear it apart or abandon it to work in favor of their own.
              What’s one or two verses? A lot if we allow ourselves to ignore the whole.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              The cross-references give further insight into that particular scripture

              2 Timothy 1:13
              13 Keep holding the pattern of healthful a words that you heard from me with the faith and love that are in connection with Christ Jesus.b

              Marginal References
              a 1Ti 6:3; Tit 1:9
              1 Timothy 6:3
              General
              3 If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion,

              Titus 1:9
              General
              9 holding firmly to the faithful word as respects his art of teaching, so that he may be able both to encourage by the teaching that is wholesome and to reprove those who contradict.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Yes I surely remember Victor and his unreasonable erroneous false teachings, honestly I don’t know what those people saw in that man, I mean all they had to do is compare what he was saying to the Bible and then they could have realized his falsehood just like we have been doing in recent matters with others with the same frame of mind.

            • Island Breeze

              He surly slithered in and planted seeds of Doubt in many.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I share your opinion, I mean why do some / they hang around here if they are clearly in opposition to what they are hearing even in spite of us proven them scripturally wrong? well the answer is obvious they are from their father the devil and wish to do his desires John 8:44.
              but there’s more to it than just that just read Galatians 5: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/galatians/5/#v48005016-v48005026
              Also read>
              1 John 3: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/1-john/3/

            • Southern ShaSha

              Thank you Kevin. Galatians 5:1-26 Perfect!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Hello Southern ShaSha. I hope all is going well .
              I always enjoy reading your comments as they are uplifting.

              Yes always rely on the scriptures that’s all we have at the end of the day besides our heartfelt prayers to Jehovah, when I take a hard look at it if I didn’t have the scriptures I would be totally lost and a slave to the satanic world and it’s many idiosyncrasies, Jehovah was truly showing mankind love when he left us his book of directions .

              It really does hold true what Paul had said to Timothy 2000 years ago when he said.”All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
              Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003014-v55003017

            • The Raven

              Doesn’t make sense does it? I understand how you feel and so do many others.

            • Daisy

              Makes me wonder whatever happened to Victor? Not that its important these days. But i do think and pray about Cocheta once in a while, still do long after she was “carried off” and love her unconditionally. Still remember her cheeky humour and sharp wit… She used to send me recipes, then suddenly there was silence. Wasn’t she disfellowshipped by Robert from here because she called us all a “nest of vipers” or something similar. Can’t remember anybody else coz I was out of it, I was told about it.
              Don’t recall Victor had much effect on myself, Nigel, Beverly thank goodness eh 😉

            • KB

              I too have a soft spot for her. I think she came close to getting kicked out but I’m not 100% she was or not. Miss her.

            • Daisy

              Lol…think she bounced herself after falling under Victor’s spell, I remember she was very angry, for reasons known only to herself as she never replied to my emails after leaving here. Remember Robert saw her off with one or two words, one of which were ” good” ( that she was going) so I’ll know how he’ll feel when he bounces me lol, made myself laugh.
              I couldn’t just drop my email friends cold like that, I’ve got 8 what I call my e-w-friends and we all share so much, scriptural, up building, supporting stuff, so that makes me wonder how she got on, I suppose Victor and wife supported her, but when his predictions didn’t amount to much…stick close to the bible and you won’t go wrong. And if doctrine is bogus and baseless then Gods word never changes. *-*

            • Burt Reynolds

              I had a note from Annie the other day. She is involved with a person who is a prophet chosen by God to invite everyone to the marriage feast. This person was taken into the spirit realm and given visions of the end. Apparently, Jesus took power after his resurrection. We can but hope that her sojourn in the wilderness will come to an end, but let’s leave the door open for her. I don’t think names hurt anyone and maybe she was going through a bad patch at that time. Let us be merciful as Christ is merciful.

            • KB

              Thanks for the update, that’s good to know.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Daisy, there have been a few in the past. Dare we not forget Frank. He still logs stuff in the Forum I believe.

            • Daisy

              Haha. Yes! Dear Frank and didn’t we give him a hard time!
              He’s been in limbo for quite a while now, and I’ve read most of his work…some of it easy to follow 🙂
              He wasn’t as successful as Victor but maybe that wasn’t his agenda to begin with. He was simply expressing his own ‘speculations’ with us maybe. Who knows 🙂

            • The Raven

              I agree with you. Its amazing how some folks can start an argument by saying stuff like this:

              Also, how about losing the attitude you’ve been displaying recently?

              e.g. “You really walked into it there.”

              You’ve been name-calling and generally responding to people who may not share all of your beliefs with an impatient, proud & condescending tone in recent times; ill-fitting for a minister of God.

              Perhaps all of your men-pleasing worshippers here, whom you never seem to discourage elevating you & your writings as infallible, have affected you.

              And others defend this? Hahaha! In some venues people who throw grenades should not be surprised when they get them pitched right back at them!

              Robert does not have “men pleasing worshipers”. What he does have is a group of very interested and appreciative folks who know good research and reasoning when they see it. No one here believes he is infallible either. But when scriptures bears out his statements we do thank him for imparting that understanding to us. He doesn’t have to do anything for us. But he does. Thank you for speaking to the fact that he has helped us a great deal.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Raven said “Robert does not have “men pleasing worshipers”. What he does have is a group of very interested and appreciative folks who know good research and reasoning when they see it. No one here believes he is infallible either. But when scriptures bears out his statements we do thank him for imparting that understanding to us. He doesn’t have to do anything for us. But he does. Thank you for speaking to the fact that he has helped us a great deal.

              Take note that the scripture certainly agree with your thoughts

              There’s nothing wrong with us giving extraordinary recognition to those who are taking the lead in fact the scriptures endorse it.

              Now we request YOU, brothers, to have regard for those who are working hard among YOU and presiding over YOU in [the] Lord and admonishing YOU; and to give them more than extraordinary consideration in love because of their work. Be peaceable with one another. 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13.Read more>
              https://www.jw.org/en/publi

            • The Raven

              It’s like Burt said who wouldn’t thank an oarsman for pulling us from the sea?
              Several here wouldn’t. In fact they’ve done everything they can to drown us in lies. I don’t miss any of them.

            • Nigel

              I do give brother King a break and I appreciate both the pressure he’s under and the hard work he has – and continues to – put in – which I have publicly acknowledged before. But that doesn’t automatically mean everything he writes is correct nor that everyone should simply believe him at his word.

              Or are we to ignore God’s instructions?

              “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1 NIV

              “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” 2 Tim 3:16 NIV

              “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.” John 17:17 NIV

            • Bklyn Kevin

              You’re right on point Max and the scriptures most certainly agree with you.
              There’s nothing wrong with us giving extraordinary recognition to those who are taking the lead in fact the scriptures endorse it.

              Now we request YOU, brothers, to have regard for those who are working hard among YOU and presiding over YOU in [the] Lord and admonishing YOU; and to give them more than extraordinary consideration in love because of their work. Be peaceable with one another. 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13.Read more>
              https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/bi12/books/1-thessalonians/5/#v52005012

            • Daisy

              That’s hilarious too!

            • The Raven

              Thank you. Always willing to oblige those who stir the pot…. 🙂

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Jesus sure has his work cut out for him after churning that pot and all that OLD scummy dross comes afloat.
              I imagine some of them elements from that OLD SCUMMY DROSS will be unbearable to look upon.
              Read more> Search results for: scummy dross.
              https://e-watchman.com/?s=scummy+dross

            • Burt Reynolds

              I don’t think anyone is trusting in a man. Certainly not me. But I do trust what the bible says because it checks out in the bible. I checked your advice in the bible too and it has no grounding. What would you rather I do? You quoted the bible, I checked the bible. It did not bear scrutiny. When I cross checked this with Roberts consideration, I could not fault it from the bible. This makes me confident in his motive. It does not make me confident in what you say, even though you maintain it is truth from the bible. It’s not. I have checked it for myself. As have others.

            • Nigel

              It’s funny: considering you’ve “checked out” what I’ve written and found it’s “not truth”, I don’t ever recall seeing any rebuttal by you, or anyone else for that matter. I’m all ears should you wish to, however.

            • Daisy

              That’s hilarious! So happy to see you are abiding within the house rules with your sssssoft abuse now. Tame….st st sttstuff it. ( lovely) *-*

            • The Raven

              And they’re off……… hahaha!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Don’t even waste your time Raven, it’s just not worth it you’re a better person, I mean don’t sink down to their level – you know the old saying misery loves company and they’re just like Satan miserable because they KNOW they have a short period of time before the final judgment comes so like Satan they want to take as many down with them as possible .

            • The Raven

              You’re right of course, Kevin but they’ve managed to run off or silence a good number of interested ones and frankly I’m sick of it. Taking a cheap shot at Robert and the few folks still here who appreciate all the work that goes into this site is disgusting. Sorry, old friend but that doesn’t sit well with me, but I understand where you’re coming from.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Yes Raven thats true many have been run off / left Roberts site due to the twisted scriptural browbeating from people like Nigel, Daisy, Beverly Etc. And why Robert allows this to go on I’m not quite sure but in any respect it’s none of our business of what he does and who he allows to stay on his website because ultimately he’s responsible and held accountable in the eyes of Jehovah and not us, our responsibilities Is to continue to follow Jesus and his channel and promote the kingdom of Jehovah after all isn’t that what Jesus had instructed us to do?

              Take note of Peter when he inquired about the one who would betray Jesus and Jesus’ instructions back to Peter.

              Peter turned around and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, the one who at the evening meal had also leaned back on his chest and said: “Lord, who is the one betraying you?” So when he caught sight of him, Peter said to Jesus: “Lord, what about this man?” Jesus said to him: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you? You continue following me.” So the saying went out among the brothers that this disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but he said: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you?” Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/john/21/#v43021020-v43021023

            • The Raven

              Thanks, man. Now go look at Burts comment to me and get yourself a good laugh fix for the day. He never fails to deliver and this time is great! To heck with the rest of this garbage! Also check out some excellent questions from muldoon. He’s also looking at very important matters pertaining to final days. That’s where it’s at man. Thanks for all you do.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Hello Kevin

              You say that Peter inquired about the one who would betray Jesus…as far as i know,that would be Judas…
              That is wrong interpetation of that scripture im afraid…
              Judas was not amoung them at that moment…he was dead.
              The account in John chapter 21 is after Jesus had returned from the grave.
              The one who Peter inquired about was” the one who at the evening meal had also leaned back on his chest and said :”Lord who is the one betraying you?”

              So that wold be the apostle john….
              read a lot more..John 13:21-26

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I certainly will look into it and I greatly appreciate your particular point however please take note that I was not trying to interpret the scripture but merely making a point that we are to follow Jesus and his channel and promote the kingdom of Jehovah whether the wicked are allowed to be present or not.

            • Anderiega

              Who is “the channel” of Jesus?

            • The Raven

              Ah but your boy here started it with this. Of course you NEVER acknowledge first blood. NONE of you do. As far as I’m concerned that tells everyone here all they need to know about the lot of you! Soft abuse……Hahaha!

              Quote “Nigel”.
              “Also, how about losing the attitude you’ve been displaying recently?

              e.g. “You really walked into it there.”

              You’ve been name-calling and generally responding to people who may not share all of your beliefs with an impatient, proud & condescending tone in recent times; ill-fitting for a minister of God.

              Perhaps all of your men-pleasing worshippers here, whom you never seem to discourage elevating you & your writings as infallible, have affected you.”

            • Daisy

              FYI my “boy” is Jehovah’s boy.
              Are you fearing Him yet Raven. Or is it man you fear, rhetorical question .
              Word in your ear …i s …don’t let your passion for being right turn into a neurosis? *-*

            • The Raven

              Still evading eh? Its no surprise you two appear to defend him and then attack others for calling him out for confronting Robert in a bad way. Typical. What part of he started this don’t you understand? Oh, that’s right. You don’t care…. much christian love to ya!

            • Daisy

              Ticking time bomb. Tick tock.

            • The Raven

              For who? We’ll see.

            • How about you stop lecturing and pretending to know things you don’t really know anything about?

            • Nigel

              Yuk. “Pride comes before a fall.”

              I don’t “lecture” nor do I “pretend to know things”. I’m learning, just like all of us. If I’m mistaken about anything I’ve written, I encourage you – anyone – to correct me from the scriptures. In a spirit of mildness, preferably.

            • Nigel

              I apologise for making a personal remark about your attitude, brother King. Not my place. I’m sorry. I apologise to everyone else I may have upset, also.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Nigel: Why are you telling such lies about Robert? I mean isn’t that what / how the Pharisees persecuted Jesus and his apostles?, shame on you and may Jehovah have mercy on you.
              And on another note I think the reason why you’re making these slanderous accusations against Robert is because you are obviously jealous of his many blessings from Jehovah which clearly can be seen not only from his blessed work but also from his God-fearing attitude which has been brought about by true love for his fellow man, and again I say shame on you and you should repent and you can start with a heartfelt prayer to Jehovah for forgiveness and apologize to Robert.
              And also you should meditate on what the fruits of the spirit really are.

              Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects.

              Nigel all of which you have clearly displayed not only against Robert but others on this site as well.
              On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed to the stake the flesh together with its passions and desires.
              If we are living by spirit, let us also go on walking orderly by spirit.Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another.

              Fruitage of the spirit (22, 23) Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/galatians/5/#v48005022-v48005023

            • The Raven

              That’s certainly what it looks like, isn’t it? Its the same old story with them. Start crap and then howl about it when they get it thrown back at them. I don’t get it. What’s the point in being here if everything they believe is contrary to what this site is about? WTH?
              Maybe they’d be happier where everyone agrees with them where they can rant about how we’re all going to die because we do not accept their views, emblems, etc.

            • Nigel

              “Maybe they’d be happier where everyone agrees with them where they can rant about how we’re all going to die because we do not accept their views, emblems, etc.”

              Who has ever said that? I certainly haven’t. If you believe I have: prove it. You won’t be able to because you lie.

              What are YOU doing here masquerading as a Christian? You are not even baptised, much less have the Spirit. (Although it’s not too late.)

              Be careful that you do not fall on the wrong side of these scriptures, Raven:

              “I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars–I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.” Rev 3:9 NIV

              “This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.” Gal 2:4 NIV

              If you believe anything I have written is false-teaching: PROVE IT.

            • Nigel

              What “lies” and “slanderous accusations”, exactly?

              All of you are welcome to peruse my comment history and judge it for yourselves. I encourage you to if you’re in any doubt.

              If you’re referring to my observation about brother King’s recent bad-attitude that’s become manifest in name-calling and a proud & condescending tone, then I can assure you it wouldn’t take me long to find several examples of it; just about all of you are aware of it but some of you seem to enjoy, encourage & participate in it – you, brother Kevin, being one of the foremost.

              The slave always persecutes the free. (Gal 4)

              And on another note I think

              You should stop thinking (judging) out-loud because you haven’t the foggiest idea what you’re talking about. Not in this matter nor in many others. Keep your judgements to yourself. Better yet, entrust yourself to Him who judges justly.

              “…For the way man sees is not the way God sees, because mere man sees what appears to the eyes, but Jehovah sees into the heart.” 1 Sam 16:7 NWT

            • Bklyn Kevin

              A good man brings good out of the good treasure of his heart, but a wicked man brings what is wicked out of his wicked treasure; for out of the heart’s abundance his mouth speaks
              Luke 6:45.
              You can call it an observation all you want as to cover up your tracks / true nature but the truth is out of your own mouth you had spoken abundantly and you slanderously accused Robert of several things in which none of it was true , your own words will convict you just read your own dialogue below .

              Nigel [said to] Robert King • 5 hours ago
              Also, how about losing the attitude you’ve been displaying recently?
              You’ve been name-calling and generally responding to people who may not share all of your beliefs with an impatient, proud & condescending tone in recent times; ill-fitting for a minister of God.
              Perhaps all of your men-pleasing worshippers here, whom you never seem to discourage elevating you & your writings as infallible, have affected you.

              Now with that being said I happily blocked you and your false teachings.
              May Jehovah bless your search for the truth.

            • Nigel

              If anyone here has consistently sounded like a Pharisee over the years, it would be you, BK. Your comment history tells the story.

              Compare:

              “What Stephen said was a blow right to the heart. When they heard it, they gnashed their teeth against him. But they yelled at him at the tops of their voices, blocked their ears and made a concerted dash at him.” Acts 7:54,57 NTE

            • Burt Reynolds

              Nigel, I can only speak for myself in this, but I have to object to being called a men-pleasing worshipper. I don’t worship men. I admire few men in my life generally for their intellect and altruism. As for Robert, I don’t sit easy with his bluntness at times, but over the years I have been here, I sure have come to understand why he can be blunt. But by looking for it, I also see a man of altruistic sensibilities, over coming his own self, to impart his knowledge and faith, critically OF the bible. He has to my knowledge, never responded to praise or thanks and which to me is a worthy credit to him. What happens here is that people see agreement in reasoning, and mistake it for praise. They see gratefulness in others for what appears to be genuine insight and mistake it for adulation. As for me, and I suspect others, I simply see someone who is sharing knowledge and which is consistent with the themes of the bible, explains them reasonably and in many cases in an irrifutable and clear manner insofar as my own reasoning tells me so. What comes to me from that, is an understanding of Jehovahs purposes and their hopes for mankind. Faith and hope, and love for the God I have sought. That does not come from Robert, but from the bible. Someone, someone, has to speaking truth in this day. And all I have gained from this site, appears to me, from the bible alone, to be truth. Robert defends it. I defend it for as much as I am able. Who would not? If you cannot believe the source, what can you believe? Do we all have it right? No. There is always, always, the bridge of faith to cross. I do not rely on my own understanding or that of anyone else. I rely on continuity and faith, prayer and truśt in my brothers not to decieve me. Are we not brothers?

            • Nigel

              Brother Burt, I have nothing against you or anyone else on this site, including those who have gnashed their teeth at me now and in the past. Indeed, I’ve prayed for every single one of them. But I must say that it’s perhaps not ironic that the only ones who seem to have been offended by my mention of “men-pleasing worshippers of RK” have been ones that most fit the description. I never mentioned any names but their responses have spoken volumes.

            • Beverly kenyon

              POW! Lol. 👏🏽👏🏽💪🏽💪🏽🙌🏽

            • Burt Reynolds

              Nigel you mistake appreciation for praise and the value of friendship and a striving to be honest as unworthy. I think those values have become untrusted in these days and few can trust another with ease, and even less declare a faith in their friendship, so as to not to mistreat it or have it mistreated. Fewer still, when then chips are down are willing to draw the line in the sand. It is safe to say that your comments are borne of insecurity in your own beliefs, frustration that they are argued and that you cannot get agreement. In fact, you reflect all the issues upon yourself as you declare on us and which is non-sensical.

              When that chap from the army stopped Jesus and asked him to heal his servant, what credentials did Jesus have to do such a thing? The word of other people alone. He could do nothing without the spirit of Jehovah. So here we have a plebiscite from the Roman army turn up in front of Jesus and ask that he heal his servant. You seem to feel that such faith in the conduit is wrong. Well there are no comparisons to equate these issues among men are there, so yes, it appears that to have a little faith in another to explain the bible is somehow elevating them to a godship. It’s not so Nigel. If we cannot trust our brothers at this time, then that is just sad. But even then, that trust is not based on the word of man as it was for the centurion, but this time, it is based on results, in opening up the scriptures to understanding and the truth that is seen there. It is a shallow waste of your time to personalise or seek fault in minutia whilst overlooking the greater issues of faith that face us today. Do you think so little of your brothers that you see man-pleasers rather than trusting in a friend in scriptural faith as a bond and a responsibility to be truthful within that faith? Do you really expect a fellow man to be faultless because he tries to do good?

            • Beverly kenyon

              You’re a true ‘wordsmith’ Burt and the Book of Burt should top the best sellers list and sometimes you make me absolutely LOL and I know you have heart but for this post of yours to Nigel I’m giving you a 👎🏽.

              Whoever the person is or whatever the person does it should all be done for the Glory of God. All of us are good for nothing slaves doing what we should be doing.

              ‘So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God’. 1Cor10:31. NLT

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Beverly, I don’t think I can explain myself any better. I’m not sure that you have read what I have said clearly, because it is to the very glory of Jehovah that I am referring. I don’t praise Robert as Nigel has suggested, and neither does anyone else here, but many are openly grateful to him for the time and insight he gives to this work. That does not make us men pleasers. And causing or inferring divisions over trivialities of who goes to heaven…something that is totally out of our knowledge and control, as they are not even sealed at this time, is rather silly. And I hate this I’m right your wrong pettiness and the divisions it causes. It is better that those ones set up their own site than disrupt the learning that goes on here. All of us are able to make our decision on the matters raised. We do not need to be told. We have learnt that lesson on the knee of the watchtower. All these things pale into insignificance in the face of prophesy to come and we will all be ashamed and marvel at our pettiness for having disputed these trivialities and saying and accusing others that ‘I am with Paul…..or I am with Peter’ and calling others men-pleasers because it is too difficult for us to understand plain gratitude that SOMEONE….ANYONE in this sick and vile world has had the courage to stand up and speak truth about the bible, and expose the lie, not only at his own time and expense, but out of his own need too. Sure, no one is going to get it all right. Why do you think it is that it will be Jehovah who speaks through the mouths of these ones when they are brought before judges and kings…..because of that very fact that otherwise, the truth will not be explained in its depth.

              Even the greatest of us knows nothing, nothing at all about Jehovah. We are but grains of dust on the scale. We grasp at a few straws of truth in the hope of living, and in a smattering of insight into the justice and love of Jehovah and Jesus. We none of us have anything that Jehovah needs. We are made up of a few teaspoons of elements, CO2 and water, the same as feaces and we decompose the same way. Our arguments are no more than wind from the belly and our own disapproval of others worthless. If there is no peace to be found for you here, and Nigel and others are in disagreement, then start your own site. For me, I will put up with the things I don’t like from the bible, because it’s not for me to give a view, but to exercise obedience to the bible. Even when I do not understand it, wrong explanations that cannot be supported by the bible are clear and I just wait until the jigsaw piece fits. I don’t try to make it fit.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hi Burt, I know we’re made from the elements of the earth but I’m much more than a piece of pooh…feaces. I’m made in the image of God himself and I’m wonderfully made! Psalms139:14.

              For me, I’m with Jesus all the way and its him I’m co-dependent on. Now if that makes me petty then petty I am and will pray about it. And to quote a “wise man” on this blog who said these words to me a while ago…the last time I looked it was a public forum so I’ve no need to set up a site of my own. Did I say there was no peace to be found here?! No I didn’t! You’ve made over 3000 and odd comments over time and most of them are your opinions so, is nobody else entitled to their opinions and views? No one has told you to go start up your own site just because they’ve disagreed with you on something.

              The Holy Scriptures tells me all I need to know about God and his Ways so I know all I need to know about the Father. Also, where did you get that Nigel singled you out as a man pleaser? No he didn’t! But, like he said, the ones that came out swinging straight away, protesting……well, I’ll let you fill in the dots on that one.

              If you care to read my post to Max you will see I’m very appreciative of EWatchman. But you’ve got to admit some of the praises heaped on RK are bordering on idolisation. Proper fan worship! Angels warned about such worship. I’m sure you know those scriptures. Also, I’m not into gang mentality. My preference is, interacting with individuals. Not cool Burt with your passive aggressiveness telling me and others to get lost. I could say the same to you, but I wouldn’t want to hurt your feelings.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I think Beverly that are deliberately trying to misconstrue my words. Yes we are wonderfully made….from the elements. Our bodies are nothing without life. I drew the comparison because manure and flesh dissolve to the basic elements. That is all. It’s a fact. We are all compost. It matters not what we were beforehand. I am not passively aggressive. I meant it. What is the point of being here if you are diametrically opposed to the issues? You are simply being dishonest with yourself. That’s the same as saying you stay with the watchtower for its teachings and not for what it is. I have not ever seen praise heaped upon Robert and if I did, I would put it down to the joy the word brings when it is understood. It’s true some can praise the giver, but if you are referring to who I think you are, then you should also consider the use of English as a second language and cultural differences. Don’t forget, in their enthusiasm, ,even the apostles wanted Jesus to be King. It seems you wish to pick holes and condemn where a little understanding would be better placed, more forgiving of others, and more encompassing of where people are coming from in terms of development. Regardless, I have replied to your original question and I am not going to carry this on. The lack of insight and humility before the creator is nigh on overwhelming, bickering about how much one knows, who is saved, who is not saved; a bloke sat behind a computer being accused of lapping up praise….I tell you, if what has been said is praise, then Robert is getting horrendous value for his unpaid, reviled, argued, harangued and apparently blasphemous work. Why is the guy being blamed for what another has said, be it justified or not? What is it to do with him? What is it to do with you or Nigel? It is between the one praising and Jehovah. And even then, it’s not praise but gratefulness, at worst, poorly worded. So as I said, if you wish for pure worship equal to your standards, then make your own site. As for me, I am quite happy here. I’ll leave the last comment to you. I’m done.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Like I said, read my post Max. No I’m not misconstruing your word at all but that’s how you came across. The apostles had seen Jesus’ miracles and heard his words so quite right they wanted to make him King there and then and he was the Son of God after all and not some ‘bloke sat behind a computer’ as you’ve just described RK. I could say to you what’s it got to do with you as well? All RK’s work speaks for itself. Credit where credit is due. Who mentioned wishing for pure worship? And not to my standards as I’m a sinner but it’s to God’s standards to answer your random point.

              I wasn’t picking holes, I was replying back to you with an answer. Did I say I was opposed to the ‘issues?’ What issues? What are you on about? Looks like you’re having an argument with yourself. In your long winded way I can see you’re supporting RK and his work and that’s a great thing to do if you’ve benefitted from it like I have. I was talking about a person being idolised, you know, similar to JW’s idolising those seven men at Warwick, the principle is the same and I’m not saying RK is going along with that, so you know very well the point I was making. And if you don’t want to hear others opinions then you make your own site. Looks like old habits die hard for you and are still ingrained as wasn’t you the young JW who went out of his way to please elders?! I remember your stories of back then.

              Say what you like Burt if it makes you happy, Happy to oblige. I’ve said my last comment to you as I have a chocolate stout cake to make and nothing, not even you with your passive aggressive words will get in my way and that cake! It’s chocolate stout cake for goodness sake! 🍰🍫

            • L.H.

              The things you write reminds me of the book of Malachi.

              The leadership:
              Mal1:8 “But you yourselves have turned aside from the way. You have made many stumble with regard to the law.You have ruined the covenant of Levi, says Jehovah of armies”

              Br. Robert :
              Mal 8:7 ” For the lips of a priest should safeguard knowledge, and people should seek the law from his mouth, because he is the messenger of Jehovah of armies”

            • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

              Mediator,
              a person The heavenly government appointed, a mediator to assist in finding a resolution to the dispute”.. Jesus, instituted a covenant between the 12 the night of the Passover that Is the New Covenant. That in its self pertains to only a select few. Had it represented the entirety of mankind , Jesus would have made that clear to all people in every preaching campaign. He did not, therefor that Covenant did not cover the entirety the human race. Another clear piece of evidence, is that when the Holy Spirit filled the rooms of those who are anointed the Holy Spirit did not Encompass everyone who knew about the Christ only a very small number again not the whole of mankind..

            • Burt Reynolds

              Absolutely. Why make such a life changing statement, critical to all mankind, only a few hours before his death and entrust such to 12 men who would deny him and run from him just a few hours later? Only later did they understand what was said to them and it’s meaning. Jehovah is not partial. He has given man all the tools he needs to identify the truth. He left us to find the humility to accept it.

            • Beverly kenyon

              And the whole of mankind wasn’t in the rooms! Christianity was still in its infancy.

            • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

              The whole of mankind was NOT invited to the covenant!

            • tequila

              Let’s take a step back on the mediation thing for a second. There is
              an alternate solution to the problem of who Christ “mediates” for.
              Pleads is the same as being a mediator in a legal sense. So in a manner
              of speaking, Christ is Mankind’s legal representative, because his
              ransom created legal rights for him to be so.

              The word mediator appears
              just 6 times in the Greek scriptures, there are a few synonyms that
              could be considered to mean something reasonably similar in the Hebrew
              scriptures pertaining
              to Moses.

              Given that, lawyers don’t just argue one case at a time. They conduct
              multiple cases according to their workload capacity. My guess is that
              Christ has the love and the energy to handle two separate cases. One for
              those willing to take on a heavenly life, and make no mistake, while
              the number is confined at this point to 144,000 (if it is more or less
              let me know) it is given by invitation only, personal desire is not
              enough to get the invitation. I have no idea what the selection criteria
              is, and I think there may be surprises who makes the cut and who
              doesn’t. So the first case Jesus mediates or pleads on, is his choices
              for those in the heavenly covenant.

              (Romans 8:34) 34 Who is he that will condemn? Christ Jesus is the one
              who died, yes, rather the one who was raised up from the dead, who is
              on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us.

              But there is a mediation or pleadings for those who are content and happy to reside on earth,1Timothy 2:5-6.
              This case which is the second case happens at its “own particular
              times”, and clearly seems to be a separate issue for Christ to plead or
              mediate. It involves resurrected ones as well as survivors. What is
              there to plead or mediate on their behalf? The removal of the death
              sentence for starters…

              (1Timothy 2:5-6) 5 For there is one God, and
              one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. . .

              But the only thing I can say is that Christ is not one to be fettered by
              our imaginations or be restricted to our puny thinking as to what he
              will or wont do. It will always be fair and just. That is where I leave
              this.

            • Burt Reynolds

              That’s what I mean by reasoning.

      • Craig Knight

        Yes Beverly the scriptures are very clear that ALL Christians are called to partake. The little flock Jesus was referring to were the Jews. When the Jews did not accept the call it went to the nations or the Other sheep. It’s very simple without WT twisting everything up. These little buzz words JW’s get all wrong. “Other sheep” “Little flock” for goodness sake people need to listen to their bible’s not these silly self appointed fools. Rev 7:15 The great Crowd are IN heaven. What else do JW’s need to know. Why do people not see this verse? I’m glad I made this very important step Beverly as I know you did. My mediator is Christ Jesus not a bunch of men in cheap suits! All my love to you Beverly.

        • I thought you had made your last post? How about we make this it?

    • Coimbatore Isaac

      I will tell you one thing. You are very much angry with WTS, but remember one thing we should not argue from only our stand point of view. Do you know why? 1st Corinthians:13:12-13: For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face.

      At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.

      Till then what should remain? faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.

      So just think about this scripture.

      • Southern ShaSha

        Thank you Isaac. Faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.
        We can certainly lose the greatest command of all in our conversation!

        • Burt Reynolds

          Hello Southern ShaSha! Long time no hear! How’s it all going down south? Any snow?

          • Southern ShaSha

            Hello Burt. I remain on site always, first place I visit daily. Kinda learned over time maybe remain quiet, stay out of trouble that way, ha! We have had some pretty awful weather, 2 1/3 to 3 weeks of below freezing, many nights in the single digits, very rare for this location. Enjoy you all, enjoy the wealth of knowledge Robert is so generous to share. I will check in periodically so you know I’m alive. Thanks for inquiring! And yes, we have had some snow as well!!!

            • The Raven

              Hi , glad to see you. You got snow? We missed it by a few miles. Miss your posts. Don’t worry about trouble, I practically bask in it! Take care, 😊

            • Southern ShaSha

              Thank you Raven. You are a kind and very thoughtful brother. We only got a sprinkling of snow over a layer of long lasting ice. So happy, back in the 60’s today.😊

            • The Raven

              We’re supposed to get close to 60 today. Luckily none of our pipes froze this week. I had the worst time shoving the dogs out the door to do their stuff. They broke their records for fastest time by 2 minutes and bolted for positions by the woodstove, pushing the cats around. I should have filmed that. 😁

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Hi Raven…one trick to avoid the water-pipes from freeze is to open one of your tap just a little bit and let a tiny stream of water go in the drain…as long as there is a little sirculation/movement in the pipes,…it wont freeze 🙂

            • The Raven

              Hey Arvid! How are you? Yes, we do that for the taps in the house its the ones in the garden we insulate and then pray. Lol! So far so good!
              My area rarely gets hard freeze but when we do its a mad rush to cover plants, trees, pipes and bring in firewood. What can I say. Living in the south is loads of fun at times!

            • Burt Reynolds

              We English of course have the correct solution to frozen pipes. We have a stop inside the house, before the pipe ever gets outside, and from there, we turn the water off, of course, leaving the outside tap open so that all the water from the stop to the outside tap runs away, leaving the pipe empty……to get blocked with bugs and spiders seeking refuge.

            • The Raven

              That reminds me, I have to clean the wasps nests from my dryer vent. My nephew handles the 20 ft. Kill shot wasp spray, niece handles the hose in case some fly and I have the shovel to smash it once it’s down. No casualties (stings) in years except my black and tan beagle who went to investigate. Poor girl. She spent the day buried in blankets with a swollen nose. Down here they are very aggressive.

    • Bonnie Russell

      Wow. I don’t know if I agree with everything this guy believes, but he seems pretty accurate here. Seems that a lot of other people are figuring things out too.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42gVKzxmzIU

      • Cathii D’Anthonii

        A bunch of nonsense, is what it is…In Hebrews it says those that partake unworthily, there is no sacrifice left to cover…Very serious to push on Jehovah what He has not said..
        Satan can fool people into feelings of being one of the anointed. 144,000 is a very specific number. Very mathematically balanced like everything Jehovah brings about..

        • Bonnie Russell

          Yeah. The bible is pretty clear. Even laymen can understand it if they try to seek truth with God’s help. I’m starting to see these truths spread online by just random people.

          • Cathii D’Anthonii

            We don’t get to Tell Jehovah we are chosen..Unbelieveable..
            1 Cor.11: 27
            Consequently whoever eats the loaf or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be quilty..etc..

            • The Raven

              Heh. Welcome to the Catholic church. Mass on Sunday at 10 sharp but no communion unless you went to confession on Saturday. You can’t take communion, you’re screwed. You’re going to die and roast in hell while they watch floating around on fluffy white clouds.Who the hell would want to rule the world? I have enough trouble keeping myself out of trouble! Everybody wants to be above everyone else. I am confident that all those who have these delusions of grandeur will be smacked down and the rest of us ” unworthy” wretched peons will be cared for by the true shepherds. Man, I can’t wait. I just pray for the day we’re no longer dealing with folks determined to kill us with their “kindness”. Father O’Reilly back at mt Carmel would be so proud! Sister Kathleen if you’re reading this… I lied in confession every week and I’m the one who shot the spitballs at you…every…time. 😁

            • Burt Reynolds

              I had to ask google what a peon is! I knew Sister Kathleen and she knew you were lying at confession about the bank heist, and endured the spitballs as a penance for her dalliance with Father O’Leery, Father McKeen and Father Sid Duce and the His Grace the Archbishop of Foundout.

            • The Raven

              Ah…life in Dante’s pergatory. Neither here or there among frustrated old women and vicious old men who wielded yard sticks like katanas. I still dream of miserable cold in the pews kneeling, standing, sitting, lather rinse, repeat. The beatings and nasty snarky admonishments still haunt me.

            • The Raven

              I just read this again. I see what you did! lol!

            • Bonnie Russell

              Speaking of the anointed, how exactly does that work? How does one know if they are anointed? I never felt any desire to go to heaven because I want to be on the earth with my loved ones. But I assume if somebody is chosen, they would have to know about it.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Bonnie Romans chapter 8 gives a good explaination,Jehovah through his holy spirit and there is No dpubt in them. The anointed I have known seldom speak of it…One put it to me this way..They feel like Jehovah is their close father..The Bible is written to them personally…
              One thing, they are absolutely certain of their calling..I am happy to live on the,earth
              .

            • Bonnie Russell

              Thanks. Doesn’t the Bible say many are called but few are chosen? Does that mean some may be candidates but not quite make it or be replaced before they are sealed?

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              There will be 144,000. Satan would like to change that number.. Like pi and phi, and all the physics we haven’t scratched the surface of…Jehovah has set that number…Jesus said “The full number”…thats in the Bible too! I found it all by myself!!!

            • The Raven

              Lol! That’s true.

            • Bonnie Russell

              I’m not familiar with them. Sorry if I am a little rusty. It’s been a long time since I’ve studied. I have been inactive since after 75. But thank you for your patience.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Bonnie, I’m so happy to hear that you found your sea-legs again..upon finding Brother Kings site,I couldn’t put the Bible down, just to prove it all. Read it three times through..How exciting to finally understand the whole Bible and draw closer to our Father as a result…keep on.. never give up. !
              John 17: 2 Jesus is praying to his father.”glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole number whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life…
              Bonnie, the whole number 144,000
              And hopefully all of them will stay loyal and not fall to Satan. Satan has brought nothing but ruin and death to us all..

            • Burt Reynolds

              I knew a person who presumed on his anointing. He was revered by the congregation as the youngest annointed ( this was before the watchtower decided such was a sign of mental illness ) and how wonderous it was that someone so young would be chosen. Lots of references to ‘young Timothy’. He was drained out by the watchtower, pioneered for years, lived in squalor in a caravan in a car park and used the countryside as a bathroom and ate with the brothers in their homes. After being drained of his zeal by an insatiable watchtower, he decided he was not of the annointed and I never saw him again. At least he stood up and said so. The moral of the story being not to lean upon our emotions based on a poor understanding lest we get crushed!

            • The Raven

              At the bottom of this page is a search function. Type in anointed and it gives you articles which contain that word. I’ve found Paul’s writings to be very good on getting a better understanding of it. As far as I can get it since I’m not part of that crowd. It’s hard to grasp it. But, I don’t really feel like I need to, if that makes any sense. God chooses them.

            • Bonnie Russell

              Oh wow! Thank you. I didn’t know how to do that. Thanks for your help, Raven! I love this group. I’ve learned so much here in such a short time.

            • The Raven

              No sweat. Ask anyone here. There’s a lot to look at and read but keep in mind even with all the scripture Robert embedded in his essays, it’s incumbent upon us to research it. We always come up with tons more info ( and questions) afterwards.

            • Burt Reynolds

              That is true. I sometimes think I’m emotionally dead, because I have never been drawn to the bible through personal emotion, but through a sense awe imposed on me through Jehovah’s creation and His qualities. And those are only strengthened as this world begins to disintegrate. I have never felt the need to embrace the provisions He has made for a heavenly existence. I’ve never felt equal to it, but I certainly feel at home with the provision made for existence on this earth. Can you imagine being visited in the ‘breezy part of the day’ by the spirit of the Creator, to be in the presence, the essence of the life giver. How could we ever presume upon such?

            • The Raven

              That, my friend is an honest reply and I feel the same way. I’ve realized virtually all of us are in dire need of help and healing in many ways and being here beneath God’s tent is all I can hope for.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Wouldn’t that be wonderful, after the 1000 years, that is a possibliity, I’m delighted that Jehovah is a hearer of prayer and even listens to the likes of me. .weve experienced that first hand especially through the storms this year..

            • The Raven

              I know He hears your prayers. How else could you guys have navigated through that mess with charts and compass no gps and a coastline altered by Irma? I was certainly surprised and relieved to know you were ok.

        • Daisy

          Christ’s sacrifice is to cover mankind’s sin is it not, so who would you say IS worthy to partake dear Cathii?

          I’ve just read Paul’s advice in context and if read without an ingrained WT mind where the holy scriptures are cobbled together to support WT doctrine, a true understanding of what Jehovah has said is revealed.

          I’m sure you will agree that we can disagree without being disagreeable dear sister, so don’t take this as an attack please. Just sharing what I’m learning through bible study without a WT agenda. Much love from Daisy 🙂

          • What is the advantage of setting aside the Watchtower’s teaching if you promote your own error?

      • The Raven

        This guy has some things correct about the condition of the dead but is way off on others. He does not believe anyone is going to heaven. He avoided speaking about the 144,000, the bride, priests and judges and did not acknowledge exactly what the order of resurrection means, nor who they are. He used examples of those who died before the sacrifice of Christ and completely ignored the fact that certain ones will become as Christ to rule in the new kingdom.

        • Bonnie Russell

          Of course. I think he is a messianic Jew or something. But that doesn’t bother me. I expect people to have differences. LOL. Nobody agrees with us 100% of the time. That’s why I felt necessary to point that out in the beginning that I didn’t agree with him 100%.

          • The Raven

            I understand. I’ll give anyone a listen but truth is the standard, not opinion. Omission is every bit as bad.

            • Bonnie Russell

              I try to give people a lot of leeway in this fallen world. If they can attain some semblance of accuracy in this place it feels me with hope. Of course they won’t be 100% correct. I’d be surprised if any of us are that accurate. I was really disappointed with his video on the trinity. He refused to really address anything and just fell back on God is a mystery, we can’t really know, blah blah blah.

            • The Raven

              That raises red flags. There is no mystery concerning Jehovah, Jesus Christ, His son and the holy spirit, His active force.

            • Bonnie Russell

              That was the worst part about it. He totally understands all that, or at least seems to, and even points out your points and then abruptly ends it without leaning one way or the other.

              He just basically says it’s too controversial to make a decision even though he lays out the problems with the trinity doctrine. Almost like being on the edge of refuting it and then stepping back down again before making a decision.

              I think he understands it but is afraid he will sound too much like JWs and will alienate himself from his audience, since most of Christendom subscribes to it. Shame because he has a lot more right than most.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzd_PxD2_gU

            • The Raven

              Well, that’s because there are a lot of folks on the hate jws bus. They sure haven’t made it easier on themselves either with all the errors and lies about prophecy but they do have the basics correct. You may be right about him not wanting to commit because of his audience. I know folks like that. I don’t aggravate them. They ask questions and I do my best to help them find them. Who knows? As we get further along many of these folks on the perpherals might come around.

            • Bonnie Russell

              Exactly. People rarely break down and change in the moment. Our egos are too strong. That’s how it was for my son. You never know at what point people might experience things that change their way of thinking, though. Hardships have a way of rewiring our state of mind, and in this world there is no shortage of hardships.

            • The Raven

              Yep. To each according to his own gifts but pray also. Pray always.

            • Burt Reynolds

              There is no magic formulae in the trinity idea. The bible is as plain as can be on the subject starting off in the book of Genesis where it refers to the creation of Jesus and that through him, all else was created. There is really no further argument. However, when Jesus was here on earth, he noted on several occasions that he did nothing without his father and that he was going to his father, and actually at the critical moment when he hung alone, he asked why his father had forsaken him. The fact that articles have to be written on it, only goes to show how obstinate man is in his own desire for gratification.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Sad to see Craig go. I liked him and his parrot. Seemed to be calm and collected and passed that feeling on in his writing. I don’t like this, ‘if you don’t do this you’ll die’, like the watchtower thinks. The bible is quite clear on the basics, and is it not the basics alone that Jehovah has permitted to be known? Within that lies all that a Christian seeking salvation needs to know because were that not the case, then Jehovah would be selling us short. In fact, it was whittled down to one word by Christ, namely, love. If one reads the bible, then the collective meaning of love becomes clear….love understands all things. Instead, people make it a matter of sides, belief, and persuasion to believe what they believe is the truth….and that being a truth that no one can be certain of because we are not made privy to it. This is what this site is all about. Take it or leave it and the standard is not certain truth, but reasoning on the truth, and reasoning is what makes it clear to the heart. Reading, reasoning, building a faith that we make our own. If it were otherwise, then where is there room for faith? This site provides the reasoning. It is us that take the reasoning in and either make it our own, or not as the case may be. But the fact that there is no obligation and it is freely given, is the way it should be for that is the example Christ set. I really don’t know why people look to this reasoning being of a man or all of us here. All that has ever been referred to is the bible, and from the bible, reasoning, and from reasoning, personal understanding and from that, come the personal ownership of faith by which we will be judged. I think it a blessing, and a gift that our salvation does not rest on knowing who does or who does not go to reside in heaven.

          • The Raven

            It’s extremely disappointing to deal with folks who insist we are not accepting God’s love if we don’t partake of emblems and therefore will die. I’ve had my fill of that sort of mess as a child. Jehovah seems to be far more merciful than these so called followers of Christ. Look at christendom. They too demand adherence to ritual and dogma with a self assured air that they share in the promise of immortality simply because they wish it…like something we can attain by our pitiful attempts. My fate does not rest with those who wish to rule over me. It rests with Jehovah my God his son my lord and his true brothers, to be revealed upon the return. My hope is to be among those who like me will accept the sons of god, keep our faith and encourage each other, not condemn us for refusing to grab a brass ring. Is it loving to imply we are doomed for this? After scouring scripture and this site for any shred of salvation for as many as possible and finding quite a bit of Jehovah’s mercy extended to all I’d say those who wish to make this an exclusive club are very unkind. I continue to look for anything to show how fair God is, not for ways to shut folks out. How hypocritical of some to say these things. Yes, the bible is the authority and we don’t quite see everything clearly but… that is never an excuse to argue for that which is not there. Hard enough making sense of what is.

            • Burt Reynolds

              The truth that we need to know is summed up in one word. Love. I don’t pretend to know more than the basics. For that matter, my reasoning on the prophesies is that they are there as an aid to our faith when they come to fruition, such as 2Timothy 3. The evil slave will make itself known, as will the horseman and so it goes on. To me, that small understanding is sufficient. What is bounteous as the watchtower may put it in their flowery language, is that someone can throw light on the prophesies. For what purpose? My reasoning is that the unveiling of these appendices is a gift from Jehovah for those living in the end days, because what is coming, no man could stand without faith. And so in His love, He sends insight to some so that others may be strengthened. How that works in third world countries where communication is not as it is here, I have yet to see, but Jehovah will not be found wanting or partial in his provisions. It really does not figure in the equation who delivers these words to us; who the conduit is. Look at Moses, his life stopped over one act of ‘look at me’. Who would take that on willingly if they were not driven by the greater love? And Moses was anything but willing. But he could not deny Jehovah. Likewise, I cannot understand why, when someone stands up to be counted, others immediately look for fault or carry on searching, when, like the mailman, the letters of hope are brought right to our door. The bible says to check the facts related to us from the bible. It does not tell us to check out who the conduit is. We are supposed to recognise the word. That’s what the Boreans did. They reasoned…..with insight. But that does not make us any the less grateful for that conduit. Does it?

            • The Raven

              Well, Burt I’ve said as much myself. When I first arrived here I made it clear anyone’s claims to be called, chosen, anointed or whatever made no difference to me. They are men. I don’t give a damn for any who try to scare me into compliance by their claims. It’s catholicism 101.
              The more I deal with that sort of stupidity the more obvious it becomes to me that some of these ex jws are doing the exact same thing they did before, only now they’ve found replacements! How the hell can anyone be free of these destructive tendencies when they adore their chains and want us to follow!
              The society certainly did brainwash but worse, it conditioned them as well. To even imply that acknowledgement for spiritual food many of us have never seen before is akin to worship is pretty rotten.

              I’ve told off priests, nuns, even a bishop once and believe me when I say that most folks with any sense aren’t going to swap one set of chains for another.
              Until they are revealed when the Christ arrives, I think I’m doing exactly what He said by not being swayed or shaken from my reason.
              I will not listen to anyone that uses someones “calling” as a wedge to divide and spread discord. They show who they are. Robert has done this a long time and its plain to see spirit is at work. But, its also at work in folks who seek Jehovah.
              Titles mean jack to me. Fruits of spirit found in words, yes mere words on a page which reveal that which we did not see most of our lives speaks to us.
              That has far, far greater value than anyones “called” friend.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I agree. I recall when I first came to this site, a brother wrote a dialogue to me….he was an elder in a cong in California …..and it explained everything in the then issue I had that was stumbling my way. It was as if a door had been opened and fresh air breezed in. He was the first brother that spoke truth to me since I came into the watchtower, decades ago. The first. Imagine that! And then he died a few months later. Yet it was enough to know that I had found a well where people met together to discuss truth and reason on it. We are commanded, warned, to check the scriptures against what is said. And no one that I know of accepts another as infallible, but within that, keeps a wide view and one supported by trust. The bible says that everyone is worthy of his wages. Are we expected to not thank the worker for his time? But it is the master that pays out. We must be small minded folk if we cannot thank a passing oarsman for stopping to lift us out of the sea. Thanks is just a common courtesy. No one is bowing down to him.

            • The Raven

              That is a perfect analogy, man. Know that many I speak with share your thoughts. One fine day should I make it to the other side, don’t be surprised if you find me knocking on your door with a bottle of the finest spirits I can find in my hands.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Lagavulin single malt scotch whisky . 18 years old. OR, Talisker single malt, 12 years old. OR ..Penderyn Madeira finish single malt Welsh whisky. Failing which, earl grey loose leaf tea from the ruins of Harrods, with a nice slice of fresh lemon. Don’t forget the salmon sandwiches. Battenburgh cake would not go amiss either. You know what I think would go down well Raven, a bottle of Armagheddon Single Malt Scotch Whisky 1,000 years old. We can lay it down the day after the tribulation. Jehovah would never destroy a Scottish distillery. There is a prophesy about it. ‘And it came to pass that at the end of the tribulation, Jehovah looked kindly upon the Talisker Distillery and his anger subsided as the aroma of malt and spring water bathed his nostrils in a scented delight of fine whisky. And Jehovah turned away from his anger and said, ‘Let there be a single malt stored in an oak sherry vat, enough to last the 1,000 years and to offer a jolly good celebration there after.’ And it came to be so, and Jehovah saw that it was good and there came to be a brewing and a tasting, the first day. And Jehovah said, ‘It is not good that man should brew a single malt alone. I shall make a companion for him to help in the brewing process and to name the whisky.’ But the man he had made looked horrified and lifting up his voice said, ‘Not blooming likely Father, for she will drown it in water and shall consume peanuts with it or pour it heartily into coffee and great shall be the ruination of it and we will have to go through this process all over again.’ And Jehovah at once saw the wisdom of man and did recant in his decision . And there came to be a brewing and a tasting, a jolly close shave. (Book of Burt. Surviving the Tribulation. Chapter 1. V1. ).

            • The Raven

              Oh God! I’m dying! My nephew is sitting here laughing! You’ve outdone yourself this time! Oh Jesus, Mary and Joseph my sides hurt! Well I was thinking along the lines of a good Kentucky bourbon but after reading your preferences, I’m going to have to go raid a rich man’s liquor cabinet! I’m sure they’ve got stashes somewhere! Thanks for that laugh, Burt! That made my day! 😂😂😂

            • The Raven

              “Not blooming likely Father, for she will drown it in water and shall consume peanuts with it or pour it heartily into coffee and great shall be the ruination of it and we will have to go through this process all over again.'”

              😂😂😂 hahahaha! That ! ❤🤣🤣

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Ha, I got into it with a Catholic priest at 9 years old coming out of cataclysm…The nun tried to say the trinity is a holy mystery we are never to question..so I walked out the door, found a priest questioned it, and got a verbal beating…last day at Catholic church ..

            • The Raven

              Yep. Nine? That’s remarkable. But you know what they say? Dogs and children know when they’re being handled by idiots. 😁

    • Merton

      I dont want to analyse and comment on everything you said. It’s quite lot. I’ll just make a few points:

      1. The hope for everybody in Christ is a resurrection on the earth. The JWs believe everybody in Christ has a heavenly hope and everybody not in Christ (ie in Adam) has an earthly hope. There is only 1 hope, and 1 way to salvation and it is a resurrection from the dead of this body on the earth.

      2. You’re right that the other sheep are the gentiles.

      3. Building doctrine around verses in the book of revelation is dangerous path. It is a book of sign and symbol – if you build a core doctrine around some obscure verses in revelation (and come to incorrect conclusions) and then apply those beliefs to other parts of the bible, it’s game over. Of course it is inspired scripture, but you must tread carefully. There is a reason people use (and abuse) the book of revelation & John’s gospel. Leave the book of revelation until last.

      4. Jesus is the mediator of all Christians yes. He intercedes only for his erring, but faithful brethren. He does not intercede for the world, or his abandoned brothers.

      5. Keep reading your bible. And make sure to read all of it. I use the Bible Companion. Check it out.
      It gets you through the New Testament twice a year, and the Old Testament once.

      • Good bye, Merton. Next up? Come on! The Purge has Begun!

        • Island Breeze

          Yippee!!
          Let me break out my bass again!!
          https://youtu.be/gNzQgjgHn-0

          • Burt Reynolds

            Thanks for that Joseph. I like to get on down in the morning and shake my bones up and groove on down. Far out man.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Does your site have difficult to remove arguments?! Then you need Purge-o-matic! Just one squirt of Purge-o-matic’s wholesome Truth formula will rid your site of Stupid Argument, Outlandish Ideas, and Bizaar Reasoning all on one application, leaving your site fresh and receptive for interested newcomers searching for Truth. Purge-o-matic is available at your local bookstore right now. Look for it in the Bible isle.

        • too bad, Merton was pretty smart debunking trinitarians

      • The Raven

        Oh man! Where the hell is the factory producing you people??!!

        • Island Breeze

          It would seem that Satan’s main strategy is to feign his own demise in order to portray himself as being weak and ineffective. Being superhuman he is able to easily overreach Christians, ever disguising himself as an angel of light, convincing them they know the truth, when they are embracing a lie.

          • The Raven

            I’d love to rewire a few of his mills, man. You know what I mean… 😎
            This is freakin ridiculous and yep…theres another one back on.

            You know the old saying:
            You get the most flack when you’re directly over the target.

            Robert’s attracting a lot of it. 😁

          • e.v.g

            I think the demons can insert thoughts in humans. The mediums can know certain things from people. They can make people do weird and bizarre things.

            • The Raven

              If we give way to our faults and weaknesses we invite them in to exploit us. That’s why prayer is so important. Even paul struggled with bad inclinations.

            • e.v.g

              I know, opposing to the devil keeping the mind sober.

            • The Raven

              Exactly. When I look around at how crazy this world is now it makes me wonder just how bad it’s going to be when the devil and his angels are thrown down.
              It gives me a better appreciation for the numerous exortations Christ and his followers made to strengthen ourselves spiritually everday.

            • Burt Reynolds

              That’s very true. I learnt that lesson when I joined (when my mother told me to join!) the army at 17. Without going into detail, I can relate that many many people walk this earth without a conscience, are capable of the utmost cruelty, are mindless, thoughtless and are devoid of any insight. They ‘know not what they do’ in the entirety of its meaning. And that is to their own side, let alone any assumed enemy. It’s frightening that such people stalk the earth. However, the greater truth is that the protection of Jehovah will be all the more manifest to those that love him, so none of you who worry about such things, or need fear. Jehovah has a strong arm. Be not afraid.

            • The Raven

              That’s comforting. Thank you for that reminder.

    • PCDN

      I believe that your going through a phase and hopefully you’ll pray to Jehovah about this and come back to your senses. You can’t just walk in the KH and partake in the wine and bread knowing that it’s a sacred bonding between Jesus and his anioted brothers.

      If all of us are supposed to go to heaven then why is god making the earth new? For whom? And for what purpose?

      It’s true that Jesus spoke more about heaven than earth…..but has it ever occurred to you that maybe the Bible was written for the anointed. And mind you that Jesus said that there’s more he could tell us but our brains will not be able to comprehend.

  • KB

    Robert, when I was a kid growing up in the congregation in the early 1970s I remember 6 individuals that professed to be of the anointed in my Kingdom Hall. They have all died now, even though Rutherford proclaimed “millions now living would never die”. To be honest I don’t know anyone in my area that is alive now that is anointed. How can the great crowd show good deeds to these ones if there aren’t any near by anymore. It’s kind of hard to believe that so many of the early Witnesses had a heavenly hope since many were celebrating Christmas and birthdays, so many things that were taught at that time were wrong. In fact we know most of their teachings about prophecy were and still are false. Would Jesus and Jehovah find their worship to be approved and have these one set up as part of the 144,000? Was it group think type of stuff? Were they really part of the 144,00? Since Russell claimed to be anointed everyone else did to or thought they were as well. It makes more since to me that the 144,000 would be made up of more people living during this time period than in the early 1900’s. That way they could be judges of what everyone had to go through in these last days. Also we could have the opportunity to except them in their roll and show our faith in them as the chosen ones. This would also prove the Watchtower to be nothing more the the man of lawlessness and the antichrist. Just some thoughts.

    • Burt Reynolds

      Every so often someone comes up with a gem! It’s true that all these ‘annointed’ who are dying off will leave no one the opportunity to show their faith as there will be none of them left! Again, the watchtower shoots themselves in the foot. It’s strange that I can spend hours looking at these things without realising something so obvious! At least I’m not alone……eight million witnesses can’t see it either!

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi KB

      That is a very sound comment. One thing I would say, every person who is anointed or who will be anointed will know the hardships and difficulties of refraining from sin from whatever time period. Basically each anointed one will have something different to bring to the table ( couldn’t think of heavenly equivalent for table 🙂 .

      • Burt Reynolds

        Heavenly table = made from European oak inlaid with cedar wood and sandal wood and gold, upon which is a Big Mac. (I’m almost certain. Read more. Book of Burt Ch2 ‘How Does McDonalds Figure in the Great Tribulation?’ Read even more: ‘Burger King and the Watchtower Shares Portfolio.’ Book of Burt ‘Fast Spiritual Food. Ch 1).

        • Jamie Mac

          That made me giggle Mr Reynolds. Have you earned any royalties from your Book of Burt. 🙂

          I for one will be delighted that McDonalds and the like will be nowhere to be found very soon I hope.

          Edit. You are not normally around on a Sunday morning, hope everything is ok.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Yes I’m fine thanks. Just taken the pooch for a walk on the beach.

    • The Raven

      Hi KB. Very good points. Believe it or not Robert wrote an article which touches on some of those questions. I tend to agree that the ones who stand at the end are in a unique position since it is the finale. I can’t go too much further but the “eleventh hour worker” is indeed spoken about in relation to the anointed.

      https://e-watchman.com/many-first-will-last-last-first/

      • Burt Reynolds

        It was nice to find out what that scripture referred to. I wonder if any workers will turn up at one minute to……

    • Yuri Fisher

      Hello KB. Today situation with anointed is very confusing. WT have no idea who is real anointed. 30 years ago when I started to study Bible with JW it was easy for us to see that those who takes the emblems were anointed. And the numbers were decreasing. But suddenly about 15 years ago numbers of anointed started to go up. It is so strange. And today everyone can see that something wrong with today’s anointed. They are not anointed at all. All of it is Satan’s play. WT again wrong about the last days. No last day today. Man of Lawlessness did it again. He stumbled many believing Christians. So only after true Jesus coming we will recognize true anointed that were inside of WTS. Today it is impossible. After the collapse of WT we will see who is who. Today all the world and religions of the world are full of lies. Lies inside true and false religions. All we can do is prepare ourselves to future coming of Christ and not to fall spiritually. Rober King is one of true anointed that helps us stay awake. But those who will not recognize true anointed in the future and will go with false anointed will be destroyed by coming Jesus. This is my opinion about confusing situations with the anointed today.
      Be well and Jehovah’s blessings to all.

      • KB

        Thanks Yuri. I think you make some really good point.

      • The Raven

        Hi, Yuri, hope you’re doing well. Very wise words, I agree.

      • Cathii D’Anthonii

        Yuri, we don’t have to worry about who is or who isnt of the anointed…Jehovah knows who they are and that’s all that matters. I think it will be really awesome as in the book of Joel when Jehovah pours his holy spirit on his sons and daughters, and menservants and maidservants, these being the other sheep or great crowd. Can you even Comprehend having Jehovah’s spirit poured out on you?,. I cant.. So don’t worry about who is or isn’t anointed, just pray you can be part of that time..Glorifying Jehovah’s name!
        I think people forget Jehovah can and Will straighten all this out ..

        • Burt Reynolds

          It’s sound reasoning Cathii. We don’t have to worry about who the annointed are, until we do! Which is not yet! Neither do we need to vie to be the one bringing food, contrary or otherwise to the table as the banquet is already set, as indicated in the bible. They are invited. In fact, many are invited, but few of those get to sit at the table. And it is Jesus that speaks for those. And if I understand the sentiment of the bible correctly, those who are invited to sit down, had better choose the lowest table or better still, the floor. I am not sure, but I do not recall any being chosen to be annointed, rather, the door was opened for them to walk through and their worthiness to do so is not as yet confirmed.

          Thus how could any of us know who these are? And why argue this point when, unless we sense that opening for ourselves, we will never know what it is, how it feels, what it means. We can only interpret it in human terms, and somehow, I doubt that it is a sensory perception that we are familiar with, enough to describe accurately. As it is a sacred secret so to speak, why argue when none of us can truely and with absolute certainty say who is and who is not, if only for the very reason that we are imperfect. Whereas, if we look at the truths that are revealed to us, they are as plain as day. Don’t do this, do this. And that is difficult enough, for me at least.

          I feel at times there is wisdom in letting some things be. If for instance we all converted to Nigel’s reasoning, what do we do when the next strongly argued point is made by another? All rush over to that side? Will Nigel come with us? I think not. Then he will be in Robert’s position! This is why ‘reasonableness’ is the balance that the scale rests upon. If you move that to one side, then, as the watchtower shows via its history, everything else has to be altered to make it fit and the scales become so unevenly weighted, the customer begins to notice the imbalance. Jesus said the yoke is light. Why should we make it heavy with weights we do not need to carry?

          • Max

            Wise words Burt!

          • Nigel

            One doesn’t (or shouldn’t) “convert to the reasoning of Nigel” or Robert King or the Watchtower or anyone OTHER THAN JEHOVAH GOD & JESUS CHRIST.

            “Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” John 6:68 NIV

            “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6 NIV

            “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.” John 17:17 NIV

            “Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Heb 12:2 BSB

            Stop shooting the messenger. The Pharisees did that, too. Your 3124 comments are largely filled with human speculation. Stop speculating: read your Bible.

            • Daisy

              “Lord, whom shall we go away to? YOU have the sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God”

              You’ve quoted the scripture above and I don’t see any mention of a “channel”…
              When I first heard that expression at the k.h, my first thought was that spiritists are used as a ” channel” by demons and it made my flesh crawl.

              So “where”, as the demons want to instill in our minds, is NOT an option because going to another ” religion” or from one religion to another just means we swop one set of doctrlnes ( in- doctrine-ation) that is soiled and useless.

              So Peter is telling us truth searchers that a personal relationship with Jehovah and a respect for his Son, our APPOINTED King will suffice and do just fine. I repeat…Our Appointed KING.

              IMO, before my tinted goggles came off I would have been sublimely happy to allow the 7 suits to deny my relationship with my Redeemer…and I love Robert for removing them, but who cares here . Its Iike flogging a dead horse as
              Holy scripture is deflected all the time and boring windbags with nothing but time on their hands, ( I’m green with envy btw, does it show) sling their own ” wisdom” around and would you believe, they get praised for it! …these are the real folk who “think they know everything ” Robert, the ones who never quote scripture. Its mighty frustrating and now
              I’m sad 🙁

            • Southern ShaSha

              Daisy, Daisy, Daisy, you need to get a grip!!! Why, oh why would you hang around to listen to a bunch of ignorant, boring, windbags. You are a vile and hateful human being, full of knowledge, the ability to grab a scripture and by god put whomever you please in their place. Remember the Pharisees? You have an obsessive concern, or fear of what you call “praise” others receive, how often, or whether some one is consistently quoting scriptures to your liking and always going on about those who “think they know everything”. You said yourself you are “sad”, look within and you may become “happy”. I’ll quote a scripture for “you”, Proverbs 3:7, Matthew 18:6, Matthew 15: 8,9, 2Timothy 3:1-7, 1John 4:20-21.
              You may call yourselves “searchers of the truth”, but putting a boot in the neck of others along the way just may hinder that search, hope you are able to find “love” along the way! As you know, “love is the very essence of Jehovah and His Son Christ Jesus!
              Sincerely, Joyce.

            • Daisy

              I’m so sorry shasha that i don’t live up to your standards and thank you for putting me straight that im “a vile and hateful human being” .
              I must congratulate you on the very loving manner that you pointed that out.
              I’m giggling here because today, I’ve actually received 5 emails from my “e-w friends” all of whom signed off with loving, and kind words,and I’ll quote one , which said ” happy to have you as a friend”.
              But, I will take your loving concern and advice on board and pray about making many improvements regarding my nature.
              Its an ongoing work in progress I can assure you.
              I didn’t mention ignorant. You did. And I think Im allowed to freely express if I feel bored. Otherwise aren’t we in the same position as being inside a kingdom hall.
              And I hang around because I don’t feel there’s ignorance here.
              Sorry to offend you so much by quoting holy scripture but ill let you into a secret, it happens to be the love of my life. Much love from Daisy 😉

            • Southern ShaSha

              Piffffft

            • Daisy

              LOL…I did notice you’d got your pifffts in a twist… 😉

            • Southern ShaSha

              No, that was your twist, my correction for you is pffft!!! I was copying your kiss off to some one else! Urban dictionary will explain! Good bye Daisy!

            • Southern ShaSha

              No, copied your kiss off reply to someone else. You got the meaning. Goodbye Daisy

            • Burt Reynolds

              Nigel, I am not shooting the messenger. I’m talking to you. I don’t understand what you are referring to about 3124 comments on this matter but what ever you may feel about my commenting, though they may not be biblically referenced, I try to refer to the scriptures as best I can with the knowledge that I have, even though i am not well versed. Everyone else seems satisfied with my alluding to references when I cannot recall the exact verse. And I might add, referencing the bible does not mean a thing when that which you referenced is out of context. You might just as well be the pope rattling on about biblical references to contraception. In your apology to Robert you said you were not above arguing the issues but hoped to be spoken too nicely. It might be a good idea for you to start practicing such yourself. No one is every won over by the truculent whinging of a bully seeking force people to like his methodology.

              I do not know why you are intent on converting people on this site to your own beliefs and claim to be a messenger with clearly, divine insight for your message. It is not good manners to set up shop in another’s home using his money to argue against him and harangue his guests. Personally, I prefer the message in the bible and I can find no support for you within the bible. If you are clearly wasting your time here, should you not be taking biblical advice to shake the dust from your sandals and go instead to a place that you will find a hearing ear? That’s what the bible says. If you have a site of your own, you can discuss your truths with eager converts there, just as you speak of Robert here. You are happy enough to have people agree with you, but those who do not, you belittle and vilify with sarcastic sniping. That is not what this site is for.

            • Nigel

              May Jehovah bless your search for the truth, brother Burt.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Jehovah has blessed my search for the truth thank you. But clearly not yours. Please don’t continue to be sanctimonious with me. You have worn out my patience with your childish pontification of insight and I don’t wish to educate the vocabulary of my friends here to the reply you so richly deserve.

  • Island Breeze

    🔻TO ALL POSTERS ON THIS SITE🔻

    https://youtu.be/hVY1V8fXBmY

    • Burt Reynolds

      It certainly would be preferable. Sad to say that until the new system and even up to the end of the 1,000 years, there will be dissension and arguing. It is a dream far in the future, but a real dream nonetheless. At present, there is the truth to be fought for, not for our sake perhaps, but for those yet to come out of the cesspit of iniquity who do not seek to detract and argue, but learn and listen, think, analyse and make their own. Hopefully it won’t be long before we all have to stand up for what we believe against those, not armed with just spite and bitterness, but with weapons of all sorts and so it is best perhaps to put on the armour required at this time and leave tinsel town and Martians to those who chose to believe in them. Not that I don’t appreciate the joke behind the sentiment. In fact I wish it were as easy as that. But it’s not. I feel I aught to quote a scripture and so I will take a leaf out of Kevin’s book. Read more: Genesis ch 1. Read a hell of a lot more: Genesis ch 2 – Revelation ch. 22. V21.

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