Man of lawlessness clearly identified

//Man of lawlessness clearly identified

Monday, January 9

I will move on to supernatural visions and revelations of the Lord.2 Cor. 12:1.

Less than a century after the Christian congregation was established, a foretold apostasy began to develop.  Thereafter, it became increasingly difficult to identify who was truly serving God at his spiritual temple. Only centuries later did the time arrive for Jehovah to clarify matters by means of his newly enthroned King, Jesus Christ. By 1919, those approved by Jehovah and serving at his spiritual temple were clearly identified. They had been spiritually refined in order to make their service to God even more acceptable to him.  What the apostle Paul had foreseen centuries before in a vision began to be fulfilled in a limited way. We find Paul’s vision described at 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. What Paul saw in a supernatural vision was referred to as a revelation. It involved a future event, not something that existed in his day.


The context of Paul’s letter to the Corinthians had to do with his qualifications as an apostle. Even though he established the congregation, the reason the apostle was compelled to recommend himself to them was because the Corinthians had come under the influence of certain agents of Satan, whom Paul sarcastically dubbed the “superfine apostles.” In reality they were “false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.”

Paul went on to explain the phenomenon, saying: “And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness.”

Think of it, the Devil had successfully infiltrated the Corinthian congregation, using well-spoken men who had risen to prominence. Having disguised themselves as ministers, these men undoubtedly engaged in the ministry and even witnessed for Christ. But it was a ruse to gain the trust of the Corinthian brothers and sisters. And it worked, which is why Paul exposed the superfine apostles as being frauds —he being inspired to do so.

Satan has not changed tactics. Paul foretold that immediately prior to Christ’s return the Devil would have in place a man of lawlessness who would ultimately sit down in the temple of God, even showing himself to be a god. This man of lawlessness —call them the modern superfine apostles —would make announcements that the day of Jehovah is here, which is why Paul advised the brothers not to be unduly alarmed by written letters purported to be from the apostles themselves. Clearly, the man of lawlessness claims to be an apostle

Just as the superfine apostles had disguised themselves as ministers of Christ, the man of lawlessness class has similarly insinuated itself into the leadership of the Watchtower, possibly through masonic channels. The presence of the man of lawlessness is “clearly identified” by the undeniable fact that the Watchtower has promoted a false parousia from day one. 

Just as the superfine apostles exalted and recommended themselves, the man of lawlessness would have Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already come and bestowed his approval on them and as a result of their guidance the organization has blossomed into spiritual paradise.

As Paul foretold, though, the very manifestation of Christ will do away with the man of lawlessness. And the manifestation of Christ will also result in the revealing of the sons of God, as the inspired apostle revealed to the Colossians: “For you died, and your life has been hidden with the Christ in union with God. When the Christ, our life, is made manifest, then you also will be made manifest with him in glory.”

Then, the chosen ones will not need to boast of being “clearly identified.” They will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Farther, while the apostate man of lawlessness will weep and gnash his teeth on the outside.

Let him that has ears listen. (Article of the same title)


2017-01-09T10:25:31+00:00 January 9th, 2017|Commentary|91 Comments
  • ELiJAHx7

    I have thought it strange, as you touched on in the article, Brother King, that the man of lawlessness “possibly” entered in through masonic channels… It is said that, and I believe, there are so called “secret societies” in operation today, “skull & bones”, “the Knights templar”, and the more mainstream “illuminati”….It seems that certain “superfine” individuals deem it necessary to be apart of a club, ha.
    Curiously, the watchtower “society” has its own superfine members as well, I assume with their own special handshake…(I hear its a golden one)

    • LW

      Well the cross and crown was a symbol of the knights templar.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Apparently Satan had wasted no time and in fact had infiltrated the watchtower from its inception.

      God’s Kingdom Rules! – or does it?

      examine the influences that shaped C.T. Russell’s thinking and the fact that divining occult knowledge from Egyptian pyramids was a weighty factor in the Bible Students’ original fixation on 1914.

      It should not be casually dismissed that the pyramid, which was featured so prominently in the Watchtower’s publications back then, is an occult symbol, appearing in various forms in modern-day corporate logos and most notably on the back of the Federal Reserve Note, commonly called the U.S. Dollar. The arcane symbol of the ever-leering eye of the Egyptian god, Horus, peering from the center of the unseated capstone over the pyramid is presumably an oracular message from the owners of the Note —the so-called Illuminati —regarding Satan’s intended Novous Ordo Seclorum —a new world order. The suspended capstone symbolizes that the new world order has not been accomplished, yet. Read more>

      • Joseph Stephan
        • Bklyn Kevin

          POW” – insult to injury. No wonder why people think we area cult, because the truth is there is without a doubt cult like tendencies and this picture clearly shows those tendencies.

      • Joel

        . . . ummm, it gets more curious everyday!

      • Burt Reynolds

        There was one other factor that Robert and Russell overlooked in that article about pyramids and the watchtower, and that was, that on the base of the pyramid, carved in Egyptian hieroglyphs was the phrase, ‘Sell by 1914’ complete with bar code. And lo, it came to pass that the watchtower did ‘buy’ it. All of it.

        • Richard Long

          Burt, please don’t ever invite me over for dinner. I would literally die laughing face down in my salad bowl. Have you registered that deadly wit of yours with MI6?

          • Jamie Mac

            Hi Richard, Burt doesn’t have to register with them. He is already on their list as a possible extremist along with thousands of other JW’s.

    • Beverly kenyon

      Elijahx7, like that upper body jab with, ‘their own special handshake…( I hear it’s a golden one). Ka-Pow…as Bklyn Kevin might say! Had me chuckling at that one!

  • Victor Field

    How many?The whole of the 7 ?

    • Burt Reynolds

      Presumably by what has been said, all those who remain true will be removed by their peers in the governing body. However, I have not considered this facet before. Is it faithful brothers in the governing body acting as a restraint? There are alternative restraints, ergo, the need at present for the governing body to assume the face of righteous infallibility . When circumstances change and the governing body et al assume this role, the congregation may be depending on their say so, for their very lives. Brother betraying brother surely applies to all, and those who choose not to obey the governing body may be betrayed by the governing body. After all, they have records, addresses, even medical files on most if not all congregants. That is a control lever even some governments do not have. Also at this time, and with these harmful actions going on, such as abuse, monetary abuse, the lack…no…total absence of love to the congregants, could a true brother to this day still associate himself with the governing body, or would he have stepped down by now? Who could possibly be party to child abuse, or move into a luxury apartment while his brother lives in a cube with shared conveniences, or be waited on at table, or take a luxury car, or benefit from free medical care. No, he would have identified himself by righteousness alone. Surely? As said, I don’t know, I have not considered this angle before. If there is a true gb member, then I take my hat off to him. He must have the patience of Job, the resilience of a tax collector, the love of Christ and a skin as thick as a hundred year old rhinoceros.

      • Victor Field

        Jehovah is the only one knowing when his Day arrives,,his timing and his revealing of the Lawless one/Disgusting thing that has stood in opposition to him,…
        Jehovah is the Revealer of this secret,,And his son will remove this abomination that he had no hand in choosing,,.

        2Thes 2,.The Man of Lawlessness
        …6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he will be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival.…

        Mark 13:32
        But as for that day or hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

        Romans 1:18
        The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Thanks Victor, I am enlightened! ?

      • rajan

        Hi Burt

        Remider when the Lord Jesus was on earth the antitypical governing body was the Sanhedrin
        Although he was secretive Joseph of Aramathea was a disciple/follower of Jesus likewise today there is atleast one if not more on the Governing Body
        He revealed himself to the general populace when he went to the Romans to claim Jesus’s body for burial.

        • Anderiega

          And don’t forget Nicodemus!

          • Burt Reynolds

            Nicodemus is duels remembered!

            • Anderiega

              I’m naming my next dog Nicodemus

            • Burt Reynolds

              I can just imagine it out in public…..’Nicodemus! Did you just do that …….?’

        • Burt Reynolds

          Oh right! I stand corrected then, I will have to depend then on my closing sentance that if there remains a true member of the governing body, then he must have the love of Christ and a skin as thick as a rhinoceros! ☹️

          • Anderiega

            It is something I’ve been recently pondering too…..That if there’s an “awake” Governing Body member (s), it must be excruciating to be quiet. It’s humbling to think about.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I can understand that there is an inhibiting factor within the congregation or in holding the man of lawlessness back, but how? With what influence? What influence would be strong enough to hold back the issues that we see today, unless it is by Jehovah’s spirit? It must surely require more than one objector within the GB to cause a restraint, and what restraint would that be? This is why I questioned whether it be a person, or a metaphorical ‘person’. Politically, any party has to wait until the right time to persuade the populace to agree, as with America joining the Second World War for instance. Meanwhile, the decision between the GB and the congregants becomes ever wider, with the paradox that those who choose, become ever more loyal! So somehow, the scriptures must be correct and there exists such a person or persons right at the heart. I would dearly like to know what the restraint is and how it is strong enough to hold back what must be by now, a roaring captive lion seeking to devour. To know the truth….if that is the key…..and to sit there at the flood gate…..that person must be truely blessed and strengthened. I can imagine them being even enlightened by the Holy Spirit, a modern day Sampson. I agree with you, it’s very humbling.

            • Lev

              Hi, Burt! I agree with you that the “wicked” – is any person or group of people who have power over the other brothers and sisters. They replace the law of Christ on his law of total submission and blind worship. This “wicked” very afraid of losing influence on the minds of his slaves, and so hides all the wiser. Therefore, a branch in Russia long ago ordered the destruction of all the publications “The Watchtower” and “Awake!” On the 01/01/2017 ordered to remove them from all the electronic media, which are all “witnesses” in Russia! Where’s the pride to suffer for the name of Jehovah! No! There is only the fear of losing their houses and branch “apparent” power and honor! Regards Lev.

      • Bklyn Kevin

        The Son of Destruction.
        At that point the true sons of God will depart from the organization, as Paul said in reference to those who are presently acting as a restraint. Read more>

      • Richard Long

        If we put Robert into the class of “fellow slaves” beaten by the “evil slave” who said in his heart the master is delaying, I’d be interested in having confirmation (generally, not details) if other similarly situated individuals in the same class are sensing some spiritual connection or otherwise networking. Almost every emblem partaker I ever met – at least the long-time ones – had a certain something about them that felt like they’ve known the WT was running off the rails but they were at peace with it. This manifested itself various ways, like when in private conversation, novices like myself would voice those “nagging” questions. The dear old sister or brother would simply give a knowing look and move on, neither answering the question nor criticizing the WT. So humble, they always edified the Elders and caressed one with a scripture/scriptural application so laser precisely applicable it gave me shivers. I cant recall a single incidence of a known partaker edifying the Organization, even in their meeting comments. It was “Jehovah says… and we…”, not “The Society says…” Maybe even in the early nineties many of the anointed had known for some time the WT had become, or never was, relevant to their salvation?

        • Burt Reynolds

          My experience of the annointed has always been coloured by their lack of insight, lack of balance, docile obedience to the governing body, and inability to answer, or unwillingness to, questions of faith. And when I was pioneering, my wife of my youth ran off with a guy who came to replace our windows and took my four children with her, and the annointed elders blamed me, publicly humiliated me by stripping me of my servant role, and worst of all, simply gave me a watchtower to read to show me the errors of my ways, with no explanation, no comfort, no pity,…..not even a visit to my home to console me over my wife’s adultery and the loss of my children, I am therefore probably not the right person to ask whether or not the annointed knew the watchtower had turned itself into a cesspit of iniquity in the 1990s. In fact, I think I may be quite negative in my opinion of them. My idea of an annointed person, is one in whom there is love for their fellow man and that as such, they exhibit it intensely through explanation, their insight into the scriptures and thus bring us closer to Jehovah, ceaselessly, with compassion, long suffering, diligence, expenditure of self, knowing when to speak, when to stay silent, open to all, equal in their ways, upright, seekers of truth, bold in preaching, fearless in expounding. As the bible says of all such people, whether annointed or not, by their deeds you will know them, and you will hang on to their skirts. I suppose that is why I am here on this site.

          • LW

            The sealing of the 144,000 began when Jesus selected the twelve apostles from among the “great crowd of his disciples,” and the choosing of them continued throughout the centuries right up until “the time of the end,” where we find ourselves today. Yes, throughout all those many years God has always had a few of his chosen ones on earth, who were persecuted because they were “no part of the world.” And although they did not understand the full range of truths from God’s word (which neither the apostles did in their days), they nevertheless were zealous in preaching the good news of the kingdom as they understood it at the time. —Luke 6:12-17; Daniel 7:21,22; 8:16-19; 12:1, 9,10; John 15:19-21.

            The Scriptures definitely indicate that some of them, a remnant, would still be alive on earth at the time Jesus returns. And just as God himself selected the apostles, likewise all of the 144,000 have been chosen by Jehovah, each one according to God’s own purpose, and which may not reflect the standards of the world on how they choose their CEOs, as the apostle Paul explains: “Brothers and sisters, God chose you to be his. Think about that! Not many of you were wise in the way the world judges wisdom. Not many of you had great influence, and not many of you came from important families. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. He chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. And God chose what the world thinks is not important—what the world hates and thinks is nothing. He chose these to destroy what the world thinks is important. God did this so that no one can stand before him and boast about anything.”—1 Corinthians 1:26-29, ERV; 2 Timothy 1:9; 2:19.

            Therefore, if someone feels that God has put his seal upon him, let him also humbly realize that God was looking for a person considered foolish, and weak, someone despised and looked down upon by the world’s standards; yes, the opposite of someone who wants to be viewed as special and looked up to. This is God’s answer to Satan, who was at one time the exceedingly beautiful, powerful, and wise, covering cherub “in Eden, the garden of God;” but who made himself the Devil when on account of his glory he became vain, and his desire to make himself resemble God caused him to rebel. (Ezek. 28:13-17; Isa. 14:12-14) It is not beauty, nor wisdom, nor power, that Jehovah is looking for in a person he chooses to serve his purpose; but humility and obedience! A lowly humble and obedient person from among mankind can prove successful with the power of God’s holy spirit, where the most powerful spirit creature, like the glorious cherub, will fail.—Luke 10:17-20; 1 Timothy 3:6,7; Psalms 138:6; 1 Samuel 15:17, 22,23.

          • Francis Bencharles

            Remember Burt, the Governing Body of the WT has been operated as a democracy since the mid 1970’s. All Satan had to do was get more Judas’ on the GB than those who are actually anointed and they get command of the Enterprise. I think some are actually members of the Bride of Christ but that they are in the minority for now.

            That will all change very soon. When the Watchtower is disciplined by Jehovah, one of the first things accomplished will be the revelation of who are actually members of the Bride of Christ in the Watchtower and who are Judas’.

            Sorry to hear about your wife and kids leaving you. My heart goes out to you.


            • Burt Reynolds

              That was years ago, and it’s better to endure these tests of resolve to refine your metle before the tribulation as it helps determine your own values. People choose to be unfaithful in a multiplicity of ways, both to Jehovah and their fellows. We need to look to ourselves to always ensure it is not us being unfaithful. It is a sad reflection though that it has always been a miserable satisfaction for me that she got her just reward, and the children got repaired in spite of her. I eventually found a happy reward in a faithful spouse, my pearl found in a field so to speak.

      • Richard Long

        So right, Burt! The most profound words I have ever read outside the Bible were an account of a wealthy man questioned as to why he didn’t drive a luxury car seeing as he could clearly afford one. His reply: “I do not want a luxury car if my brother can not have one”.

        • Huldah

          I remember a similar story. Whatever happened to not stumbling our brothers?

  • thanks for the essay Robert

  • rajan

    The apostle Paul reminded us that the man of lawlessness will only be revealed after the one who is acting as a restraint is removed (i.e. After his death or is disfellowshipped or similar) so one or more of the governing body are true servants of Jehovah God and the Lord Jesus Christ
    When the Lord Christ manifests himself the wicked servant/s will be cast out of the true congregation

  • 最近很少浏览博客了,认真拜读下

  • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka


    This is one of the super articles published by Robert because the thing is just think of:-

    1. The sentence the man of lawlessness who would ultimately sit down in the temple of God, . Which can be the temple of God? It cannot be Christendom, but Christian congregation that bears the name of the God Jehovah is the temple.

    2.Now come to the sentence even showing himself to be a god = I have heard in the meetings that the elders (my own father-in-law = he will stare at me when he announces in the cong) telling that whatever the organization says it is as if Jehovah himself has said, so who is showing himself to be a god? Is not the GB?

    3.Now come to the sentence: would make announcements that the day of Jehovah is here= Who makes such statement about Jehovah’s day? Is not the Watchtower Society? Christendom never says about the day of Jehovah as they are allergic to the very name of God itself and nowadays that they don’t even believe in that or stress on that, but WTS do that.

    4. So the conclusion is that the man of Lawlessness is within the congregation of Jehovah’s witnesses. If any Jehovah’s witnesses tell that the man of lawlessness was Christendom and was exposed in 1919, so the question to be reasoned out is:- Did Christendom made any announcements that the day of Jehovah is here back then in 1919? So I give 100/100 marks for this article.

    5. Very well done Robert, i don’t know how GB or Bethel will feel when they read this, but I feel as if it is a punch on their face itself. Good Work I appreciate and May Jehovah Bless you through Jesus.

  • Srecko Sostar

    Hi folks! :)) JW members and some former members are under powerful believing that JW Christian Congregation is the only truth church (maybe it is). With that way of reasoning or logic and WT corporation must be the same as “congregation” because what first was came in existence is WT corporation and by some kind of evolution, transition, from some sort of company was borned “church” that was with help of legal entity aka WT, later came known as “Jehovah’s Witnesses”, but now changing to JWorg as signs on the halls informed public. JW running or using WT company, publication claimed. Of course that is not so simple as they said. Only if, as some like to believe, Owner of WT is God, and GB is just Manager. :)))

    Robert well stated that, “the Watchtower has promoted a false parousia from day one”. With such doctrine from the first day of their “born” and with continuing to teaching “the same” to nowadays, that single thing disqualified WT as “true congregation” from the very first day, not mentioned other doctrines.
    Only if we want to take in consideration possibility that Jesus create WT as they were, but decide to “refining” them periodically and in meantime have work or fun or problems with followers in purpose to separate “good from bad”. But, the same He can doing with all christian churches, is not?

    And now, what Burt also mentioned. “True” and “false” gb member. After my leaving JWorg, few months later one person meet me and said that she has read my Letter and after many things mentioned, she objected me, why i was not talking to brothers (elders) not only in congregation but with others, to inform them, to discuss with them about important things. Why am i not tried to introduced some change, to try to make some reform and so, to “fight”.
    Is this what she told me that I fail to do really fail? I was aware of mechanism ( i do not know many, many details) how WT works. There is no negotiation, agreement, compromise. Just strict rules!
    GB members are people who has coming to those position step by step, obeying from the beginning, and compromised their personal “disagreement” if they have some, with general position of majority inside.
    Shades, ups and downs in the doctrines and instructions through the time, for sure were influenced of some “strong personality” in one or few of them (not to forget company lawyers and other big players in structure). But in general they as group must running business in all, on one side religious and on other financial.
    Do you really think that “true gb member” living in the house where “false gb members” ruling over “domestic” and waiting for moment of “revolution” when hundreds or thousands of Warwick workers wait for his “signal” and will stand on “true side”? 🙂

    • Beverly kenyon

      Srecko, I like some of the points you’ve made in your post. If there is a true gb member it might be Mark Sanderson as you rarely hear anything about him but for me, I really don’t think there’s one of them that’s a secret disciple. I feel they’re all guilty by association. I see the elders as managers as well but aren’t they all good for nothing slaves doing what they should be doing anyway!

      • Srecko Sostar

        Thanks Beverly, yes i also think that collective responsibility is one important factor. At least warning in Revelation book is what WT using in preaching against other religions. If you are part of something with own membership, even if you are not know, even you are not doing the same, explanation said “you are guilty!”. By the same measurement tool answer is coming by self. Only if we are making mistake in conclusions outcome can/will be different.

        • Beverly kenyon

          Spot on Srecko, with that comment! Is that you Srecko in that picture? Good to see who we’re talking to….can just about make it out. Hope you’re alright Srecko and still hanging on.

    • L.H.

      Hello Srecko , I believe the anointed ones are to find in the Watchtower organisation, and Jehovah used them to restore long lost basic bible truths ,so that must make up the congregation.
      But Satan ,as always, corrupted it, and together with the faithfull slaves ,an evil slave exists. So together with truth, we can find errors. And for this Jehovah will call them and all the ones who have (more) accurate knowledge, to account.
      But of course Jehovah will do this to church leaders who taught lies with the bible in their hand. Some maybe are sincere and are willing to be corrected and eventually follow the true brothers of Christ. At least that is my hope , also for their flock. There must be some good hearted people in there. Actually, sometimes it seems to me that they do( for their fellow man ) what we learn.
      About the GB, Maybe there are true brothers of Christ within, Jehovah decides. But maybe other true anointeds within the headquarters are acting as a restraint??
      Just a thought.

      • Srecko Sostar

        Hi L.H.! Everything is possible. But in meanwhile we personally always will have the same question; “listen/obey them/other or not?” Our years of living going and went fast. Are we not all waited for new world to come in previous decades? Are we believed that by mistake? or by “accurate knowledge and understanding?”, “by heart?”.
        Who have to take “blame” or “responsibility” for that? Only leaders?, only flock?, together? Believing that answer is not simple. But as for me, i was awakened from that kind of trans and sleep. Maybe i felt in another one or will be in some other disappointed state. Who knows?
        :)) greetings!

        • L.H.

          Hi Srecko, when I read your comment again I think by leaving for you the problem you may feel “to share in their sins” is kind of “solved” ( like it is for us).
          But my believe is, we all must act upon our own concience, because what one person knows( the truth about the truth) another does not, so they can with a clean concience worship Jehovah , and Jehovah can use the unknowing also to spread the good news about the kingdom.
          But everyone should use their own discernment if what is asked from us is Jehovahs will or not. We only must obey Him.
          And about us waiting for the new world to come; we are not to blame believing the bible prophecies that are there for 4000 years . All Christians who lived through the ages where hoping for that. It’s worth waiting for!!! 🙂
          If we did all we did in service for Jehovah , it is not wasted. Maybe we were suffering in some respect, but Jehovah can use us (lets hope so) to give Satan an answer.
          And now we are priveleged to get to know more truth,
          If our concience tells us so , we can carefully help others if we are capable. But sometimes our mouths are taped ands hand are bound. Jehovah and you know if you have done what you could do.
          . After all he is going to ask responsebility from the leadership, and when your eyes are allready open ( to some degree of course), they cannot control you with guilt.( Maybe we feel so because we were conditioned that way 🙂
          And Jehovah is always there! We can pray to him to, for example , lead the sincere ones to brother Roberts site!
          Wish you all the best.

          • Srecko Sostar

            Thank you! Wish all best to you too!

          • Noe Namely

            You speak of the use of guilt to control….I agree with you completely….Guilt in the hands of an artist is a powerful thing.

            • L.H.

              Yes, they use your faith against you. Instead of bringing people closer to Jehovah trough the sacrifice of Jesus wich REDEEMS us from guilt, they bring you down. Guilt is from Satan.

            • Noe Namely

              It seems so different to me now than when I was a kid seeing how the people were happier in their work. Now I see them more as a hive of Bees with tunnel vision & walking past one another as they busy themselves with their work…. seldom enjoying the friendship of their Brothers & Sisters like before? I realize I may have been seeing things through the eyes of a kid but I definitely see a change, a shift in both expectation and policy.

  • Victor Field

    Robert,,You have in the past stated the “Man Of Lawlessness” resides within the Org of JW’s,,
    Is this the first time you have specifically made this claim that it is the 7 men pictured here,,.

    • ewatchman

      I suspect the evil ones are probably behind the scene – like the board of directors for the corporation. They make all the decisions regarding the Watchtower Society anyway. The GB are more window dressing. I put that picture of them up more for impact than anything else. I guess it worked, huh?

      • Victor Field

        To be honest Robert, using the picture did mislead me some,as i was under the impression you was saying 2 Thes 2:4 had been fulfilled: He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

        You made mention in,,
        “Those who say they are apostles”
        The phenomenon we are witnessing presently —the Governing Body exalting itself to an apostleship —is to be expected and is preliminary to the emergence from the highest level of the Watchtower organisation of those who will prove themselves to be in total opposition to Christ in the days ahead.

        These 7 men have taken/stole this position of elevating themselves to the FD Slave,,since 2013,,
        The most interesting thing to date is they are now in their new dwelling,,Kings Drive,,,Symbolic Temple,,

        And it is very noticeable that your readers and others,are waking up to the 7 being the “Man Of Lawlessness” standing in opposition to Jehovah,and showing it publicly,,like they are a god,,especially with the allegiance they are asking in Sundays Study article,,.And the quantities of white wash they are using of late,,.

        Are not these 7 men the “Disgusting Thing”?
        This would suggest the “War On Terror from 2001 would be the war/s Jesus spoke of on the Mount,,.

      • Burt Reynolds

        That’s interesting. I had not thought of it that way. Yet the governing body are at the forefront of the lie are they not and it is they that mislead? What part, or influence would the board of directors have over the teaching of the truth and how would they impinge on the collective conscience of the governing body?

  • Victor Field

    Robert,,I found the answer in another article you wrote,,Kind Regards

  • Francis Bencharles

    The original “man of lawlessness” was clearly the false apostle Judas Iscariot. He was drawn to Jesus not by Jesus or Jehovah in order to be part of the “Bride of Christ” but to be a betrayer. Jesus knew from the start that Judas was the one that would betray him as it says in John’s Gospel. He was drawn to Christ because he saw an opportunity for prominence and an opportunity to ply his trade as a thief.

    The same thing is true of the man of lawlessness today although he is not a single man, but like the Bride of Christ is a composite person. Just as Jesus went out into “the world” and sowed seed into the hearts of men, we are told that Satan did the same thing. As the hearts of men who had motives and feelings that were and are in harmony with the seed that Jesus plants, so it is with the hearts of men who become a part of the man of lawlessness. They have hearts that seek power, influence and prominent positions like their father the Devil. You can find them in every organization on the earth including God’s former house.

    Unfortunately, unless you are an angel yourself, we cannot tell the difference one between the other. The person who has the seed of Christ in their hearts will not look too much different than the one with the seed of the Devil inside of him or her. As a matter of fact as e-watchman says they do a pretty good job of disguising themselves. But we know from scripture that people with the seed of the Devil will infiltrate God’s House and will corrupt it, and although we can’t tell who the corrupter’s are, we can eventually discern their corruption. The Watchtower is corrupt. The Man of Lawlessness is definitely present in their midst. Buyer beware! They may be part of the GB or heads of various parts of the corporation, but they are there and they are in prominent positions just like Judas Iscariot was in the Lord’s day. Jesus knew he was there then and he knows he is there now. Do not trust in mere men, you may find out that the man you are trusting in is part of the proverbial “Man of Lawlessness”.

    • Huldah

      I have to beg to differ a little on not being able to see who the man of lawlessness is. I agree that there are some that we can’t spot. I have a way of reasoning though that i feel is fairly indisputable. Many may remember how it was that brothers who visited Bethel were often taken aback by the humility of certain ones of the governing body. Many were surprised that men with such powerful positions were so humble. I believe what they saw was genuine. This was in past years when the first “tier” the older group still made up the governing body. I haven’t heard this in the past 15 years or more.

      My reasoning is that any man or woman who claims to have walked with Christ for many years or decades would naturally become more and more humble as this is a major hallmark of Christ’s personality. Any person who has attained to Elder status should have had a considerable amount of time to develop this humility and other Christlike qualities and should be growing more and more like Christ as time passes. There are only two, Christ or Satan. You cannot walk side by side with both since they are on divergent paths.

      If you see haughtiness, greed, insensitivity, a lack of compassion in a man or woman who has spent any amount of considerable time in the truth, we can see who they are walking with. Can we not?

      I’m not talking about mistakes, here and there, from imperfection, but a willful set course in one direction or the other. I know quite a few elders and elder’s wives who I have become convinced are as narcissistic as Donald Trump. Some of them are family, others I spent years pioneering beside. I heard the cruel things they said to others, witnessed the tears and spitting nails on the faces of some of their victims.

      Arrogance in a word is the Antichrist. Humility is only present in those close to Jehovah.

      I am well trained in the difference in the two and the hallmarks of both. I’m repulsed almost immediately at the mere hint of arrogance. Too many bad experiences for too many years.

      I can’t help but believe that anyone who claims to be a shepherd who shows similar traits has to be part of the man of lawlessness. This is more than just my two cents, but I’m kinda passionate about this topic.

      • Song of Hannah

        Haha oh my you and I seem two peas in a pod on this subject!

        The study of narcissism also fascinates me, in that, it is basically an abhorrence of one’s own stain of sinfulness, that instead of accepting as our own, has to instead be projected onto someone else, at all cost. It helps me understand the reason why, in the law, Jehovah instituted the scapegoat. And why throughout the scriptures, he constantly teaches us how important it is that we acknowledge our own sin, but in doing so, he also frees it up, allowing it to be placed upon Jesus instead. It is one of the main keys to our own happiness, in that it is only by owning and admitting our own sin, and then having somewhere to cast it, that we can have truly loving, intimate relationships, not only with Jehavah, but with others as well. Otherwise, the other people in our life are reduced to mere depositories into which our sins are to be placed.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Could you and Huldah shove up a little so I can get into the pod?!

          • Huldah

            I’m kinda into Edamame and the pods are tougher for riding out the great tribulation. But you’re definitely welcome.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I had to look up edamame beans! Yes they would be good sustinence. I’ll have to try them but I’ve not seen them in the supermarket here.

            • Huldah

              Raw soybeans basically. I buy frozen. More protein than beans or peas.

              My parrot loves them.
              His little feet were dry and he started eating these. They are back to normal.

              So if you have dry feet…..??lol

        • Huldah

          Wow that’s gooooood. Love the scapegoat reference.

        • Richard Long

          This resonated with me. Try as we may, one simply cannot remove sin from oneself, and Christ has volunteered to carry it away and dispose of it for us.

      • Burt Reynolds

        True. If we were not able to make a judgement as to motive, then how could we avoid being misled, and that applies whether a composite person or an individual. As the bible says, by your fruits you will know them.

      • Francis Bencharles

        Hi Huldah:

        I did not see this comment from you until today. I have not figured out how this site post’s newer post’s. I have to go through all of them until I see a recent comment. Even if I see a comment on “recent comments” it seems I still have to go through all the past comments before I see the new one. If one of the veterans of the site could give me any tips in this regard, I would be thankful.

        If I am not understanding your point correctly, please let me know, but this is how I read what you are saying. If a person develops bad personality traits they must be a part of the “man of lawlessness” or at least be a seed of the devil. Is that what you meant?

        Contrary to the point I think you were trying to make, I think it is possible to be a “good person” who values their relationship with God and Christ and also to develop bad habits and personality traits. There are people in the Watchtower who clearly love God and his Son but who have developed thinking patterns based on their desire to mimic the behavior of those that take the lead with them (who they honestly think are servants of Christ).

        Since the GB as a group (not as individuals) have shown a harshness toward anyone who has a difference of opinion than them (in their teachings) this same quality is picked up by others who either agree with that way of thinking themselves or adopt that way of thinking because that’s how they see their “leaders” do.

        Plus, I think the “man of lawlessness” is a composite man made up only of “anti-Christs” or those who have anointed themselves in order to seek power and influence in God’s people. They are the element of the GB that makes them as a body “the Evil Slave”.

        Judas was an Apostle and is the arch-type of the “man of lawlessness”. The modern fulfillment is a composite man made up of two or more men who have similar qualities to Judas’, but who have done a good enough job of hiding their true identity in regard to most JW’s. Here is a test though of your theory. Of the Seven current members of the GB, who in your opinion clearly express “man of lawlessness” type behaviors? I personally don’t know these men well enough to even venture a guess. I have been away from their influence for over a decade now, and to be honest rarely hear them speak.

        I hope that I can have a difference of opinion with you without offending. It is not my purpose, and I don’t personally think Christians will ever agree on everything until well into the Kingdom of God, so I think we should be able to discuss things we disagree on in an atmosphere free from name calling and negative labels.


        • Huldah

          I agree that one can have negative personality traits and still be a good and faithful servant of Jehovah. That’s why I qualified what I said by pointing out that it is a willful pattern developed over years in the truth. I think at least some here can vouch for the fact that some (by their behaviors and attitudes) present the case that they have been hardened in sin. An extremely haughty attitude is a strong indication to me that someone, though “in the truth”, has not been walking with Christ.

          Perhaps I lumped “man of lawlessness”, “evil slave” “the vessels for a dishonorable use” and “the weeds” all together in my thinking.

          Of course the man of lawlessness would be in leadership as would the evil slave.

          The dishonorable vessels and the weeds would be congregation members in general.

          Female versions might be the Jezebels (Revelation) or, a personal favorite of mine, the “fat cows of Bashan” (Look that one up if you want a laugh) Better yet, here it is…..

          Amos 4New Life Version (NLV)

          4 Listen
          to this, you fat cows of Bashan who are on the mountain of Samaria. You
          make it hard for the poor. You crush those in need. You say to your
          husbands, “Bring us something to drink!”

          I guess the main glaring characteristic of all these groups is their extreme arrogance. In my mind, I can’t divorce haughty elders from being part of “the man of lawlessness”. It’s noteworthy that the WT points to a general group of religious leaders, the clergy of Christendom, as the MOL (we all need to start using acronyms). No rank distinction just all the leaders that mislead the sheep. Feels right, in the pit of my stomach, anyway.

          Alternately, I guess I feel “the evil slave” is ones of the anointed who have developed these traits, especially if they should be in the governing body, but that’s just a passing thought.

          Romans 9:17-26 might be of interest on this too…

          the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, “I have appointed you for the
          very purpose of displaying my power in you and to spread my fame
          throughout the earth.”
          18So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.

          19Well then, you might say, “Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven’t they simply done what he makes them do?”

          don’t say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God?
          Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why
          have you made me like this?”
          a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the
          same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw
          garbage into?
          the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his
          power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are
          destined for destruction.
          does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those
          to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory.
          24And we are among those whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.

          2 Tim. 2.:20

          English Standard Version
          in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also
          of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable.

        • Huldah

          While I’m on the topic of acronyms, I propose that we all use H.O.G for the House of God. We already have GT, JW, BTG, GB. Let’s keep it rollin” ES for Evil Slave, MOL for Man of Lawlessness, 8K for Eight King.
          I’m a wordy person, but a lazy typist. Lol

          • Francis Bencharles

            I like acronyms, but I don’t always get what they mean. These seem fairly self explanatory though.

            • Huldah

              Looks like Burt’s out, but you can be the first member of my acronym club:)

          • Burt Reynolds

            Good idea! Let’s add ICKUWATCMPE….for ‘I can’t keep up with acronyms they confuse me please explain.’

            • Huldah

              Reminds me of a Native American name like something they would call a summer camp. Camp IK OOO WAHT CAMPEE. Alas, I won’t be able to remember it, too long. Lol

              I’m partial to H.O.G. though. (You’ll probably say I’m going to get struck by lightening for this but…..)


              Appropo if you apply it to the buildings in NY which are “hogging” up all the brothers time and money, which I wish could be spent binding up the broken-hearted in the congregations.

              NLT Haggai 1:4, 9 (parenthesis mine)

              “Why are you living in luxurious houses while my house(congregation) lies in ruins?

              “You hoped for rich harvests, but they were poor. And when you brought
              your harvest home, I blew it away. Why? Because my house(congregation) lies in ruins,
              says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies, while all of you are busy building
              your own fine houses.”

              A few months ago, my hubby said, “I wish I were a building, maybe I could get some help.”

              Just try and forget that acronym now.

            • Burt Reynolds

              You could say HOG stands for House Of Gog ( of Magog)! Or how about Haughty Old Gentiles? How about Home Of Greed, soon to be House if Grief? Perhaps hubby would be comforted by knowing its BUS…..Built Upon Sand.

            • Huldah

              I like House of Grief. Maybe he should be happy he’s not a building after all. BUS.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I can’t get on to your reply on the topic of reading hearts, that Brian wrote, so I’m putting it here! Don’t know what Discuss is up to! Thanks Huldah that certainly puts a sharper edge on the thoughts. I think you are right about the apostles and angels being able to determine the intent of people and how the genuine motives of people can be determined this way. I don’t really doubt that. I was thinking that Brian was referring to the absolute of the issue, for instance, seeing the things that are hidden from us, as with those that seem to remain ‘hidden’ within the watchtower, but are aware of the truth, as is oft suggested on this site. But yes, the Angels must have a far deeper insight than we can imagine. I am sure that we really know a whole lot less than we think we do and if Holy Spirit can be given to men and Angels to determine the depth of commitment and intent, then I for one would not doubt the validity of it and so your arguement is sound. Thanks. I had not thought that through, though I must admit to hoping that Jehovah retains the final say so when the time comes. I agree with your thoughts on psychology. After all, theory is no more than a writing down of what we know, and in its worst scenario, the writing down of what we think we know. It’s a dangerous art form but useful at the level at which human empathy remains a help, rather than a hinderence. When I was at work….I so miss my work…..I always kept to the forefront of my mind, what was said of the horrors that the catholic nuns used to inflict on their charges in Ireland and other places of torment and it was this…..’there is no limit to the amount of damage you can do, when you think that you are doing good.’ It usually worked for me in knowing when to stop and that I had reached the limits of my own definition and insight. As we can see from these pages, some you cannot heal, some do not want to heal as it gives them purpose, invoked, tragically, by their injury, and others that don’t wish to heal for what ever reason, and must be left to a higher authority. I tended to leave a lot to a higher authority I can tell you!

            • Huldah

              Yes I was struggling a bit with Disqus today too. I guess I stepped on your toes a bit since you worked the field of psychology, but you got my drift, exactly. I’m sure, with your exposure to the truth, you were able to add a lot to the field.

              I consider the American healthcare system a predatory beast. Lots of arrogant doctors with a sense of entitlement and no real concern for patients. “Hey, I paid a lot of money for a doctorate degree and I deserve to get paid to sit here and do nothing now. ” It’s pretty much like this in my experience….

              Mark 5

              26and had endured much at the hands of many physicians, and had spent all
              that she had and was not helped at all, but rather had grown worse—( the woman with the flow of blood)

              My husband once made a really good point in a comment at a meeting. ‘It took Jehovah 40 years of training Moses in Midian to undo the “education” he received in the pagan schools of Egypt.’ I’m sure he did not learn meekness, or as you say, empathy in the Egyptian university.

              Your take on psychology is wise and insightful.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Huldah, you didn’t tread on my toes at all re: psychology. It stands as a good directional pointer to behaviours in people in respect of today’s social influences, but I for one can agree with you on its frailty at being able to effect radical changes in people or to offer much degree of help. The social impact on people’s lives is far more manipulative on the psychology of people and their behaviours than any help counselling can effect for them. You can move a few, but that’s about it. Psychology today is more useful as an indicator of who one can help in their approach to dealing with their social issues than in effecting change. A bit like giving them mental money to deal with thier social poverty. One step up from ‘go well fed’ in scriptural terms! It’s worse in psychiatry, which is still in the Victorian era as far as effective service and care goes, let alone public understanding. I have always been intrigued at the American approach to it, in that it is socially affluent to have your ‘therapist’ to turn to for ‘advice’ and even to be ‘bi-polar’ as many ‘celebrities’ claim to have, but definately not, to be mentally ill. Jesus was so right in saying the truth will set you free, because it is the only advice that goes on to explain WHAT, you will be free from, and how, and why to do it.

              If you make a study of Jehovah’s witnesses who labour under the lie, their manner, depression, confusion, emptiness, unexplained illnesses and hopelessness; the suicide rate pro-rata with other religious groups that simply water down the truth to suite every wrongdoing bent of mind, you can actually see the influence and outworking of men in the watchtower in the promulgation of the lie. Not only that, but the psychological bond that the flock are held in. It offers some reasoning into the ‘blindness’ the flock labour under and why they cannot see. But it does not explain why the few who were blind, came to see. Perhaps it is because Satan can hide the lie, but that it is up to the individual to choose it without knowing why not to choose it…..yet. It’s a deep subject. It’s one reason for me, to keep the truth simple and not keep looking for deeper meanings that are not required of us or that have no resolution at this time. The more analytical we seek to be above figuratively having the faith to paint the lambs blood on our door lintels, the more room there is for dissension and ‘men’ to ply their trade of deceit.

            • Huldah

              Profound points. Excellently explained. Your experience shows as does (to me) the influence of holy spirit that helps you to see through the common notions in psychology.

              So many in psychology take an air of superiority over those with disorders as if they are somehow better than them because they are so psychologically superior and don’t have such weak minds that fall prey to depression or drug abuse and the like. I even know some witnesses in psychology who seem to think this way.

              On the contrary, it was just dumb “luck” that they won the lottery of life and had a decent upbringing or fell into opportunities that bolstered their self worth, unlike so many more who are shaped by extremely dysfunctional families from babyhood.

              I’ve actually found more help for my anxiety from eastern medicine. I have begun to believe that Chinese and Indian medicine is better due to it’s basis being in a genuine desire to help people vs the goal of american medicine (however advanced it supposedly is) which is set up to make money off of other’s misfortunes. The ancients were closer to perfection anyway.

              “The social impact on people’s lives is far more manipulative on the
              psychology of people and their behaviours than any help counselling can
              effect for them.” EXAAACTTTLY

            • Burt Reynolds

              Your right about oriental plant usage. Just ask Daisy about cannabis! My father got by on digitalis, not to mention quinine. It’s a bit strange that there is a cure for most if not all ills hidden in plant life , when man was born perfect and had no use for them in that regard . The whole lot must be linked to wellbeing and balance of the human body; part of a self sustaining circle of life. Nevertheless, the Japanese predilection for the weird and wonderful is too much for me, like rhino horn and the more, shall we say ‘delicate’ bits of tigers. I wish there was a cure for politicians, but Jehovah is the only one that has that.

            • Daisy

              its cbd oil I took during chemo and radiotherapy… hahaha. I never got high, not once, as its non psychoactive.
              It stopped nausea and helped with the munchies and sleep, that’s it. I had an amazingly “lucky” cancer as it was described to me.
              Dunno if hemp oil cured me , for now, as surely , Steve Jobs and David Bowie would have availed themselves of the miracle plant, having millions more in money than me to fight their cancers.
              But taking the oil daily, along with everybody’s overwhelming love, prayers and support here certainly impacted my life.
              I didn’t contribute to the Imagining Paradise essay but now, I’m thinking, apart from owning many dogs if and when, I will cultivate a farm full of marijuana…for healing purposes and such like only..
              Of course!
              When I was fifty I studied aromatherapy for months, passing my exam with ” flying colours”…the principals words, not mine, and worked in a clinic massaging healing plant distillations into others backs until my own back let me down. I actually made for myself the holy anointing oil, getting my instructions from Exodus 30…myrrh, cinnamon, calamus (lemon grass) and olive oil…another miracle plant, tree, the olive tree. “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day and the hour” keep oil(faith in Christ) and be ready

            • Burt Reynolds

              That’s interesting. What are the quantities for the holy anointing oil? I must have a go. Did it work!? Do it Yourself anointing. How cool is that!

            • Daisy

              I guessed the quantities and mixed them with the oil in a jam jar as I didn’t know how much 500/250/250 shekels in volume weighed.
              I was curious to know how the anointing oil smelled, think I overdid the cinnamon , and never made it again.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Daisy, How are you?

            • Burt Reynolds

              A biblical Shekel weighs 0.497 ounces, in other words, half an ounce. So the oil would have weight 15.5 pounds, the myrrh 7.75 pounds and cinnamon the same, plus whatever the other ingredients were. It looks like they made enough to anoint the whole 144,000.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Didn’t Doris Day and Burt Reynolds make films together? ?

            • Huldah

              Strange I was just thinking the same thing. Why have all the cures in plants if perfect man didn’t need them anyway.
              Of course we do need the vitamins in the food even in a perfect state.

  • Francis Bencharles

    Judas may have thought of himself as something special because he was chosen to be one of Jesus followers, but he was not and never was. Jesus knew when he chose Judas to be one of his followers that Judas was not a choice of his Father’s.

    John 6 clearly says “All those whom the Father gives me will come to me, and I will never drive away the one who comes to me; (the members of the new covenant come to Jesus because they are selected by Jehovah)+ 38 for I have come down from heaven+ to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.+ 39 This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me (if a person is truly santified or anointed by Jehovah God, they will not go bad)(it is the ones that choose themselves and come to Jesus that will go bad, like Judas), but that I should resurrect+ them on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life,+ and I will resurrect+ him on the last day.”.

    Jesus knew from the very beginning who of his 12 Apostles had faith in him and who did not. Even more than that Jesus could read hearts, and part of the ability to read hearts was he could tell whose seed had been planted in that heart and what chance that seed had that it would flourish and grow to maturity.

    Proof of this is what he also said in John 6:63-65, “For Jesus knew from the beginning those who did not believe and the one who would betray him.+ 65 He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”+ Jesus chose Judas to fulfill his purpose of being the “man of lawlessness” in Jesus Apostles which is a forbearance of that same “man of lawlessness” in God’s congregation today. Jehovah did not choose these persons any more or less than he did not choose Judas to be an Apostle, they chose themselves and masquerade as sanctified or anointed ones just as Judas did. I don’t know whether Judas thought he was actually anointed, but many of the ones today, I am convinced that they are convinced that they are, when in actuality they are not.

    That is not my responsibility and I am grateful for that. What is clear and has been pointed out very well by Robert is that there are seeds of the Devil flourishing in the hearts of ones in the Watchtower that we may or may have in the past viewed as genuine anointed ones. Not all of these persons become part of the composite man who is labeled in the Bible as “the man of lawlessness”, but enough do to have altered the direction of God’s People into their current course. Make no mistake, these men are devils, just as Judas was a devil from his start. Jesus identified Judas as such again in John 6 where he said in verse 70, 71—-

    “Jesus answered them: “I chose you twelve, did I not?+ Yet one of you is a slanderer.”*+ 71 He was, in fact, speaking of Judas the son of Simon Is·carʹi·ot, for this one was going to betray him, although he was one of the Twelve.+”

    if you look up the word slanderer, it is actually “devil” who is a slanderer. The Watchtower and every other Christian religion on the earth has devils in them and also those who have seeds of Jesus in them but have not flourished yet because their soil in their hearts are not very good yet. That is something that the Kingdom of God will remedy. Not sure if a “devil” can be seen as having a chance for the Kingdom, but that also is not in my pay grade nor responsibility.

    Remember, it was the duty of the Watchtower to collect the second presence anointed ones of the Christ (and they have done that, not by their own power, but by Jehovah drawing them). It is not their purpose to harvest all those who will be a part of the Kingdom of God on earth even though that’s what you have been taught and probably believe. That job will be done by the angels who will accomplish it during the “conclusion of the system of things” that we are clearly not in yet, but are close to being in.

    “The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things,* and the reapers are angels.” The angels know what kind of a person someone is. They know what seed is planted in their hearts irregardless of what religion they decided to join in this system of things. Remember, Jehovah draws the members of his Son’s Bride to the Watchtower and of course some of the seed that Jesus planted in hearts of persons who are not a part of the Bride also come, but not all. There are many out there who have Christ’s seed in their hearts but may have rocks as soil, or weeds mixed in, or by the side of the road etc., but that does not mean that they don’t love God and Jesus. They simply never made it to the True Church of this Presence. They too will be harvested by the angels, because even the most devout pioneer can not read hearts to see whose seed they are. Be happy about that.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Francis in your comments you said “Jesus chose Judas to fulfill his purpose of being the “man of lawlessness-end quote.

      I think you meant to say that Jehovah allowed Judas to become a man of lawlessness

      BECAUSE if Jesus’ chose Judas to be the man of lawlessness than that would mean Judas had no free will and of course we know that would not be true because everyone has a freewill.

      Also in another sentence you said ”
      [your] Not sure if a “devil” can be seen as having a chance for the Kingdom, but that also is not in my pay grade nor responsibility.???.

      I can assure you that Satan the devil has absolutely no hope of inheriting the blessings of the kingdom.

      More food for thought.

      Judas Iscariot is a clear example of one who knew what he was doing and Jesus read his heart and was well aware that Judas allowed Satan the devil to corrupt his moral compass thus betraying the son of man Jesus.

      In fact Jesus’ even gave Judas a final warning by saying “What you are doing, do it more quickly.” letting Judas know that he Jesus was well aware of his treachery, thus giving Judas an opportunity to come back to his senses , however as we all know Judas did not heed the warning and suffered the ultimate consequences of the second death. John13:27-A.Read more>

      My son, do not lose sight of them. Safeguard practical wisdom and thinking ability; Proverbs3:21.

      Above all the things that you guard, safeguard your heart, For out of it are the sources of life. Proverbs 4:23.

      For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Matthew6:21.

      John 13: Jesus identifies Judas as betrayer.

      Luke 22: “My betrayer is with me at the table”

      Yes there are those who are just plain naive and will be flogged with a few strokes and shown mercy.,
      But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Luke12:47-A.

      How can Jehovah’s Witnesses be so blind and still be…? Read more>

      Also read> Jehovah Will By No Means Give Exemption from Punishmen.

      • Francis Bencharles

        Hi Bklyn Kevin:

        I suppose everybody views free will differently. But, that being so, how is it different Jesus picking Judas to fulfill the purpose that you know in advance he will do (Judas) or Jehovah picking the Bride of Christ because he knows they will prove faithful to his Son? There is no difference in my opinion. Knowing what someone will do in advance does not change their free will, it has not effect on a persons free will. They have exercise their free will, Jehovah just sees in advance what their free will choice will be, he does not alter that choice just by knowing how his servants will act in advance.

        You know your son or daughter or wife so well that you know in advance what their decision will be because you have experienced similar decisions in the past. Does that advance knowledge of the decision have any effect on the decision itself if the person is not thinking that you are even attempting such a feat? No, it does not.

        Concerning the comment about “a” “devil” not “the devil, Satan” and that not being my pay grade it isn’t. I was just saying that I did not know if a person who had the seed of the devil in their heart was doomed for Gehenna. Just as seeds of Jesus in the hearts of people don’t always grow into a mature spiritual Christian person that would be chosen by Jehovah to be a part of Christ’s Bride but they could still be a person with faith. So too, just because a person has the seed of Satan planted in their hearts does not necessarily mean that that person is going to grow into a full fledged “slanderer”, so I am not willing to pass judgment on these individuals but will leave that judgment to God. It’s not in my pay grade, nor yours I would guess. I may not have made that point clear enough, my bad!


        • Francis Bencharles

          Read how John describes Judas’ selection in John 6:64,

          ” For Jesus knew from the beginning those who did not believe and the one who would betray him.+” vs 64

          “Jesus answered them: “I chose you twelve, did I not?+ Yet one of you is a slanderer.(or devil)”*+ 71 He was, in fact, speaking of Judas the son of Simon Is·carʹi·ot, for this one was going to betray him, although he was one of the Twelve.+” vss 70, 71

          Jesus said he chose them but he merely accepted the ones that Jehovah sent to him and chose Judas himself because Jehovah would not send him one that he himself did not choose and he certainly would not send his Son a “devil” to be part of his Bride.


          • Bklyn Kevin

            Of course Jesus knew in advance who would betray him that’s why Jesus like his Father Jehovah lovely warned Judas by saying “What you are doing, do it more quickly, letting Judas know in advance that he Jesus was well aware of his treachery, thus giving Judas an opportunity to come back to his senses just like Jehovah warned Adam and eve as well as cain.John13:27-A.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Jehovah knew in advance that Cain was going to kill able thus given him a loving warning.And what that proves is that cain most certainly had a choice – hence free will.
          Also the same can be said about Adam and Eve as well because Jehovah gave them a loving warning prior to their dastardly deed as well.

          A good question to ask yourself “Why would Jehovah forewarne them if they were Predestined?. I mean it would make no sense fore Jehovah to forewarne anybody if Jehovah himself had already decreed there fate.

          Then Jehovah said to Cain: “Why are you so angry and dejected?
          If you turn to doing good, ( will you not be restored to favor?) But if you do not turn to doing good, sin is crouching at the door, and its craving is to dominate you; but will you get the mastery over it?” Genesis4:6-7. Read more>

          Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, (for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.)”Genesis2:17.Read more>

          pre·des·tine verb
          past tense: predestined; past participle: predestined
          (of God) destine (someone) for a particular fate or purpose.
          “Calvinists believed that every person was predestined by God to go to heaven or to hell”
          determine (an outcome or course of events) in advance by divine will or fate.
          “she was certain that fate was with her and everything was predestined”

          Of course Jesus knew in advance who would betray him that’s why Jesus like his Father Jehovah lovely warned Judas by saying “What you are doing, do it more quickly, letting Judas know in advance that he Jesus was well aware of his treachery, thus giving Judas an opportunity to come back to his senses just like Jehovah warned Adam and eve as well as Cain. John13:27-A.

      • Burt Reynolds

        I wish I could recall the scriptures as you do. It’s always a heartening of setting things straight every answer you have given!

      • Francis Bencharles

        Hi B’Kevin:

        That’s only if you buy into the notion that Jehovah “knowing” in advance how a person will freely use his/her freewill in some way changes the exercise of their “free will”. I don’t, and I am quite sure in my own mind that he can know how they will use their free will without having even a little effect on the actual outworking of that free will. You are free to feel that way all you want, but I don’t believe that theory even one iota.

Skip to toolbar