Those about to be killed

//Those about to be killed

Thursday, May 4

Whoever eats the loaf or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty respecting the body and the blood of the Lord.—1 Cor. 11:27.

What point is the apostle Paul here making? An anointed Christian would partake unworthily if he did not maintain a good relationship with Jehovah. Such a warning helps anointed Christians to remember that they have not yet taken hold of the reward. They need to continue to press on “toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.”  Under inspiration, Paul appealed to anointed Christians “to walk worthily of the calling with which [they] were called.” How should this be done? Paul goes on to say “with all humility and mildness, with patience, putting up with one another in love, earnestly endeavoring to maintain the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace.” Jehovah’s spirit promotes humility, not pride.

COMMENTARY (BELATED)

It is true, as a collective Christians have not yet laid claim on the prize of the upward call, with the obvious exception of those who have already finished their earthly course.

Although in his letter to the Philippians Paul included himself among those who had not attained the goal of the upward calling, in his second letter to Timothy, which was apparently written a few years later, Paul expressed his belief that he had faithfully finished the course set before him, saying: “For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my releasing is imminent. I have fought the fine fight, I have run the race to the finish, I have observed the faith. From this time on, there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not to me only, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation.” —2 Timothy 4:6-8

apostle Paul in chains dictating letterAs the time of his execution drew near evidently the spirit bore witness to Paul that he had been approved —assured of being among the first resurrected “as a reward in that day.” In other words, shortly before his death the apostle was irrevocably sealed by the spirit. Presumably, each called one who is faithful to the end is similarly sealed, approved before death, confirming Jehovah’s choosing of them.

Paul’s experience confirms that there is a final sealing of the chosen ones that takes place prior to their being killed. Whereas, the opening of the fifth seal of Revelation speaks of the brothers of those already executed with the axe, as Paul had been, and those “about to be killed,” Revelation 7:1 indicates that the execution of God’s judgment is restrained “until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” So, those “who are about to be killed” are the final sealed ones.

The seventh chapter goes on to reveal the total number of those sealed is 144,000 —12 thousand from the twelve tribes of “Israel.” However, the angel does not indicate that the 144,000 are all sealed at that time —in the interim between the opening of the fifth and sixth seals and the letting go of the four winds. As Paul’s experience indicates, obviously the souls who had been executed had already been sealed. Since “those about to be killed” are said to be the fellow slaves, witnesses and brothers of those who had been executed, it is evident that the final sealing only involves those referred to in the 12th chapter of Revelation as “the remaining ones of her offspring.”

The opening of the fifth seal reveals that the first resurrection begins shortly after war, famine and pestilence are unleashed, but before the tribulation, which is symbolized by the opening of the sixth seal. The fact that the souls of the executed are given a white robe signifies their resurrection. That is evident from what Jesus said to the Sardis congregation: “Nevertheless, you do have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their outer garments, and they shall walk with me in white ones, because they are worthy. He that conquers will thus be arrayed in white outer garments; and I will by no means blot out his name from the book of life, but I will make acknowledgment of his name before my Father and before his angels.”

As stated, although anointed Christians who died prior to the parousia were already sealed, their having been sealed with the seal of the living God results in their coming to life to form the heavenly Israel of God.

The final sealing effectively closes out the Christian era. There is no need for any more preaching, teaching or baptizing. Even the Lord’s evening meal is concluded. God’s purpose to select 144,000 joint heirs with Christ is accomplished with the final sealing. That is why the harvest is called the conclusion. What follows? The sealed, chosen ones give a final witness, even before governors and kings, just as Paul did. They are the 7,000 who are killed. And that is why they are killed, for condemning the world. But since their sealing officially made them sons of God and brothers of Christ, their executions are the same as if done to Jesus. At last, the world will be held responsible for killing Christ.

“And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.” –Revelation 11:7

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2017-05-05T18:41:57+00:00 May 5th, 2017|Commentary|131 Comments
  • Marc Tilley

    Brother, can you explain how we make the connection between the opening of the sixth seal and the start of the Tribulation? Matthew describes these events as happening ‘after’ the Tribulation. Appreciate it if you could explain this further….

    • Bklyn Kevin

      What takes place with the unsealing of the Apocalypse?.
      Excerpt:
      On page 46 (Chapter 3 The Harvest) of Jehovah himself Has Become King, you state: “The opening of the sixth seal INITIATES earth-shaking events associated with what Christ called a GREAT TRIBULATION”. (My emphasis) If the opening of the sixth seal initiates the great tribulation, what exactly is initiated by the previous five seals? Elsewhere in your book (Chapter 6 The Sign and Chapter 25, page 482), you seem to also associate the first five seals with the great tribulation. Could you be more specific about the order of events, in light of Rev 6 and Jesus’ words in Matt 24?
      Read more> https://e-watchman.com/unsealing-apocalypse/

      Read a lot more>Search results for: seals. https://e-watchman.com/?s=seals
      .

    • According to Matthew 24:29 Jesus said “immediately after.” Or it could be said, as a result of…

      In any case, since the tribulation is said to be immediately before the sun turns black and the moon turns to blood, and there is no mention of the tribulation with the opening of the first five seals, obviously the opening of the sixth seal symbolizes the developments associated with the great tribulation. Also, since the opening of the sixth seal is recognized by those on earth as the day of God’s wrath upon them and Jesus said the tribulation was a time of wrath and meting out punishment, it is evident the opening of the sixth seal betokens the tribulation.

      • Marc Tilley

        There’s no specific mention of the Tribulation with the opening of the sixth seal either, so there’s still a huge assumption being made there on THAT basis.

        Either the opening of the sixth seal precedes the Tribulation/triggers it, or it is after the Tribulation. It can’t be both. We have the answer in Matthew….

        The Great Tribulation is the day of God’s wrath or Armageddon is the day of God’s wrath towards the nations??

        The Tribulation is a time of tumult where ‘no flesh would be saved unless those days were cut short…’ War, famine, death is described in the first five seals and you say that there’s no mention of a Tribulation/time of trouble?

        It’s evident that the opening of the sixth seal betokens the Tribulation? Again I point to Matthew… AFTER the Tribulation.

        • Jesus said the sun and moon go dark immediately AFTER the tribulation. So, since the sixth seal depicts the sun and moon going dark and the stars falling from heaven that must be as a result of the tribulation. God’s wrath is expressed through the warring nations. He allows it. Just like he allowed Assyria, Babylon and Rome to inflict carnage on his people and surrounding nations

          • Marc Tilley

            Yes Brother, and Revelation tells us that this happens on the opening of the sixth seal. Not Tribulation and THEN sun and moon going dark, just seal opened and the sun and moon are darkened, which STRONGLY suggests surely, that that the Tribulation had already occurred? Certainly does to me.

            • Brian

              I would appear that the opening of the 6th seal relates to the death of the beast and the removal of power of the remaining kings, Daniel 7 11-12 “I kept on beholding at that time because of the sound of the grandiose words that the horn was speaking; I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire. But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season.
              Rev 6 “and every mountain and every island were removed from their places” this seems to line up with “the rest of the beasts”. All of this is post the Tribulation which has to take place prior to sort out the “chosen ones” from the world.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Marc

              I can see where you are coming from but I found the following article by Robert very helpful. Please check it out. My apologies if you have already read it.

              https://e-watchman.com/great-tribulation-holy-place/

            • Marc Tilley

              Thanks Jamie, I might have read it before, but it was an excellent article to go over. It helped. Thank you.

      • “there is no mention of the tribulation with the opening of the first five seals”

        4th part of the earth?
        how do you figure?

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6e5338046e20a6c5552e3100bf6c573f937403d40187394ccedfde7649bc28ed.jpg

        Rev 6:1-8 seal 2-4

        ch7 “After this I saw”

        after what? i would assume after
        the first six seals in chapter 6

        • Beverly kenyon

          Like that side thought DA…interesting!

        • John 3:16

          Not necessarily. There can be other reasons the unripe fall:

          “Extended periods of drought will often cause fig trees to drop their fruit prematurely. In extreme cases, they may not produce fruit.”

          http://homeguides.sfgate.com/figs-falling-trees-unripened-53770.html

          There are many scriptures out there about bearing fruit, as well as suffering the consequences of a spiritual drought. It makes me think about the fig tree that Jesus cursed. He expected fruit but didn’t get any. Could seal 6 be a warning to those that haven’t bore much fruit?

          Also reminds me of the parable in Luke 13:6

          https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/luke/13/

          • says from heaven

            • Beverly kenyon

              That’s brilliant DA! Can’t stop thinking about the points you’ve raised and even did a little bit of homework on fig trees and the connection surrounding the account in the Bible. Matt 21:18,19. It’s fascinating connecting the dots in the Bible especially when an interesting gem is found and pointed out as I can honestly say, I’ve never really noticed the ‘unripe figs’ before but now just that little point you highlighted has taken on a whole life of it own when you go digging to try and get its meaning. Nice one DA!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Do you mean to say you don’t have a fig tree in your garden Beverley ? Go out and get one immediately. Tut!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Lol.? Im not green fingered Burt, so the poor tree wouldn’t last long in my care, even thought I’m okay at plants in pots. Plus, I don’t like figs as the little seeds in them reminds me of eating ants, even though I’ve never ate ants but it’s just the crunching of the tiny seeds….euuww, the thought of it knocks me sick!

            • Burt Reynolds

              You have never eaten chocolate ants either!? Beverley you haven’t lived! Not only are ants nutritious but they also thin the blood and help prevent stroke. Eight ounces of chocolate, eight ounces of raisins or sultanas, at least four ounces of good garden ants. Melt chocolate over a pan of water, add fruit and stir to distribute evenly. Just before setting, add the ants to coat. You can add a good garden snail to act as a binder, as they do in France. Pour the chocolate ants into a shallow tray and use a dough knife to score the chocolate into cubes. Keep in the fridge. Goes well with fresh apples.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Mmmm….freshly baked chocolate ants with snail. Delicious! Lol. Can’t even type it for laughing! ?? That sounds like some olde worlde ancient recipe from the 16th century as they used to eat some minging things in those times! I’m heaving at the thought! ???

            • Burt Reynolds

              Just pulling your leg. However, I do have a record of medical conditions and their cures from 1685, and that really would put your stomach out of kilter; snails, urine, ash, leaves from the Wayfarer tree and Mercury being the basic ingredient for most problems. Similar to a lot of fast food today.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yeah, I know you are but I bet someone has thought of it though. I’m amazed anyone came out of that century alive…Mercury alone would kill a person or send them insane as it destroys the brain as I saw that last night in a documentary about the first emperor of China. His priests gave him Mercury and it sent him mad. And you’re right, similar to a lot of fast food today as you can see the effects in children. Is Arvid the only one who eats clean and organic food as he knows where his food is from! Everything in this world is toxic and contaminated, even people!

            • was just a passive thought. thought you all could look into it and figure it out, as in, Jehovah giving the correct understanding

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hi DA, sorry for the late late reply….I’ve just crawled out of my pit (bed), I am not a morning person, lol! Yeah, well your passive thought turned out to be a very interesting thought as I found out a lot about fig trees and it’s fruit and your passive thought generated a lot of comments from ones here on this site that were very interesting and informative. Burt even wanted me to grow a literal fig tree!

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Beverly, I believe you can grow a fig tree in the UK. Check out this link.

              http://perfectplants.co.uk/blog/grow-figs-uk/

            • Beverly kenyon

              Jamie, I looked at that link and I thought fig trees only grew in hot climates but that link said, fig trees have been grown here in this country side Tudor times! Eh! Like how they trained that fig tree on that castle wall in Kent…amazing! But I couldn’t bear to look at that picture of cut figs on the plate as all I could see was congealed ants! Urrgh! It knocked me sick! Spell check again…it should read since Tudor times. Spell check is so annoying sometimes! ?

            • Huldah

              Stars symbolize elders in Jesus’ right hand in revelation. Maybe it’s the leaders/elders that fall like figs under the storm winds of the judgment on the house of God. Unripe in the sense that they are not fully prepared for a test.

            • yes thats why i said fruitless anointed. heaven can also mean the world governments high position; ive learned and Robert said thats true too after i had left a comment about that a long time ago

            • Huldah

              Hi DA
              Still catching up in all that’s here so I missed that one. True about heaven too.

              Thanks for tweeking my timeline BTW.

        • Huldah

          Good catch on the unripe fruit. I wondered why unripe too.
          Thinking……….

          • Arvid Fløysand

            Hello Hulda.
            I have wondered about this too..and maybe it is connected with what we read about in Matt:21:18,19 …the fig tree that Jesus cursed because there was no figs on it?
            The strange thing though is that this happened in the month of nisan(abib)…two months before the month of sivan,when the early figs would start to ripen .

            So why did Jesus inspect a fig tree on a season when no one would expect to find ripe figs?
            And why curse it?
            And if we read further on he even relate the miracle he did by cursing the fig tree and causing it to die,and speaking about his followers being able to preform a even greater miracle by commanding a “mountain” to move from its place and drop in the “sea”…Could this have something to do with Rev.8:8?..
            A whole lot of parallells here….
            Mountain usually refer to a kingdom…what would be the kingdom that will not be approved by Jesus when he arrives?
            In my ears it seems to be an uninspected inspection…looks like something big is going to happened already before the figs starts to grow..When Jesus cursed the fig tree before it was able to bring its fruit…by doing so He actually prevented that fig tree from ever to bring forth its fruit….So it looks like there will be a “fig tree” when He arrives that He is NOT pleased with and will get completely rid of BEFORE it becomes able to bring any “fruits”
            And IF the tree would be able to bring some unripen fruits…he will cause them to fall to the ground with a “storm”
            It is also interesting that Jesus went to the fig tree because he was hungry…
            So who is by no means able to give Jesus (ore his brothers)food when He/they are hungry?

            Mark.13:28-32 “Now learn this illustration from the fig tree; just as soon as its young branch grows tender and sprout its leaves,you know that summer is near.Likewise also you,when you see these things happening,know that He is near at the doors.Truly iI say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.Heaven and earth will pass away,but my words will by no means pass away.
            Concerning that day ore the our nobody knows,neither the angels in heaven nor the Son,but the father.”

            • Huldah

              From the Greatest Man book chapter 105

              “There is yet another connection between the withering of the fig tree and the quality of faith.

              Like
              this fig tree, the nation of Israel has a deceptive appearance. The
              people of this nation are in a covenant relationship with God, and they
              might outwardly appear to observe his Law. However, the nation as a
              whole has proved to be both lacking faith and barren of good fruitage.
              They even reject God’s own Son! Hence, by causing the unproductive fig
              tree to wither, Jesus demonstrates what the end will be for this
              fruitless, faithless nation.”

              Your comment makes me think of Jesus’ words, “by their fruits you will recognize those men”. Fruit is described by the WT as “expressions about the kingdom”.

              Could their be a counterfeit expression about the kingdom that the storm winds lop off before it has a chance to come to full fruition?

              Your comment about Jesus being hungry makes me think of false expectations too. Jesus saw leaves so he got his hopes up there would be fruit. JW’s aren’t being properly fed and are being given false expectations regarding the coming judgement . The stars/elders/leaders bear first responsibility for this.

              Maybe the shaking off of the unripe figs corresponds with the revealing of the man of lawlessness, since stars are mentioned and leaders are stars.

    • read my comment

  • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

    Robert.
    Question. Is the 7000 a literal number?

    • In the article I linked to a Mailbag article on that topic. Here is is again https://e-watchman.com/what-about-the-7000-who-are-killed/

      • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

        Thanks Robert , i some how over looked that artical. The question now is, even before, my baptism 1996 I had the overwhelming urge to partake of the emblems, but I was told that couldn’t possibly be that I hadn’t suffered in Christ. What now! I guess being slapped and beaten by my teachers as a child for not saluting the flag being ridiculed for being a young witness as a child I guess that doesn’t count as suffering and Christ.

        • Charles

          Revv, so sad they told you so. I with you, Jehovah sees what is in a child’s heart. He sees if we have an unusual love for him or wish to do what is right. He sees the heart’s inclinations even from childhood. And I think in many cases the core of the inner person remains the same through out all life, I think.

          • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

            Thanks Charles

          • Richard Long

            I find myself identifying with this. While always a particularly recalcitrant child, as early as age 7 or 8 I would walk the mile to town to attend church, whether I had permission from my parents or not. Still confused by that.

          • Huldah

            I have observed the same thing. I agree, “the core of the inner person remains the same through out all life”. With one caveat…It appears that inordinate power is one of the few disruptions to this as in the case of Saul or Solomon. Adversity does the polar opposite as in the case of Manasseh.

            Abraham Lincoln said, “Any man can bear adversity, but if you really want to test his character, give him power”.

            • Burt Reynolds

              One could ask, what is suffering in Christ? Which one of us would define this? Surely the suffering is interpreted personally, but all such suffering would be for the same reason….also personally. Take the widow’ mite for instance. Worthless to the outsider looking on, pitiable almost to them in its outward insignificance, yet so costly to the widow, whose suffering because of it, is not even worth the mention in the scripture and for good reason. Who of us could claim true empathy on such a personal score? Personally, I would ‘give my back teeth’ (I have them in a box) to be able to know how or why Jehovah would have the life force return to him for some, and for others to stay apart here on earth, and for that which is his that returns to him, to be given independence of him…gods in their own right so to speak yet he remains the creator! And yet a jealous witness claims to know the measure of it?! It is strange that we drag down what is holy to our own level, to try to explain the reasoning of Jehovah. If Rev believes it is his destiny, then who is to stand in his way? Do we not experience pleasure and pain through the same nerves?

            • Huldah

              Are you sure you are not a nipper of figs? I think you got another whiff of the spirit. Jehovah MUST have made you say what you did about the widow in the way you said it, just for me. Even the most minor comment is not as significant as it seems either.

            • Richard Long

              Huldah, a personal request, please. I perceive that as a longtime pioneer living under considerable adversity you may be able to answer, and if it is in fact not too personal a question, can you please describe how one encounters, or is touched by the spirit absent anointment? Does this manifest as strong inclinations, clear thinking, or what? I ask because I tend to be “moved” only or at least mostly by necessity. I literally believe I wouldn’t know holy spirit were it strangling me, but here I am, clearly conscious of my spiritual need

            • Huldah

              Your question is such a compliment. Thank you.
              You’re right.
              Strong inclinations, usually tested out over time if they continue to manifest themselves.

              Clear thinking especially if a scripture is brought back to your mind.

              A personal spin on a scripture that you read a million times but never saw it that way before and now it’s speaking right to your heart and situation.

              Most poignant ( you may not believe this one)…
              I recently endured a torturous circumanstance where an oral surgeon’s neglect caused a massive infection in my lower jaw. ( took 6 wks daily IV antibiotics to cure it plus surgery)

              She and the separate surgeon at the emergency room refused to believe that something major was wrong.

              I tend to have a hard time trusting my own thinking so it was hard to take a stand.

              During this crucial week of this month’s long ordeal a scripture popped up into my brain. It rested in the back on the left side. Odd, I know, but I can still remember the cloudlike presence just floating there.
              It was Proverbs 2:11
              Thinking ability will keep watch over you,+

              And discernment will safeguard you,”

              I knew what it meant. Keep pushing you are not wrong.

              It was there until I was through the fight for proper treatment about a week.

              Sounds crazy I know but I’ve had other similar experiences. This one was one of the most undeniable.

              I was listening to Anthony Morris’s Annual Meeting talk and a scripture showed up in the same place for just the talk.

              Prov 29:25

              25 Trembling at* men is* what lays a snare,+

              I knew what it meant.

              Now that you are logging on to Ebay to purchase a slightly used strait jacket complete with padded room, I figure I’d better go to sleep for the night
              before I totally discredit myself??

            • Richard Long

              Thank you for such a personal share. I buy my saferoom restraint supplies in bulk at Sam’s Club, btw. :p

            • Huldah

              Bulk! You seem to attract the same types of people that I do?

            • Huldah

              Hi Richard
              I really hope you give me some feedback on how you see holy spirit acting in your life or even in your Bible reading.

              I didn’t want to come off as seeming as if I was claiming to be special because blah blah blah happened to me.

              It would be encouraging to hear the stories of others.

              It strikes me as odd that we see it as par for the course that Jehovah and his angels spoke with men of old as we read in the Bible. They were so often directed by HS even miraculous signs.
              Their times were significant for sure, but isn’t this time even moreso?
              We are facing the culmination of all things.

              Why should the holy spirit not be more active now?

              Why should it not be active upon non anointed ones?
              Was it not active on Elijah, David, Joseph, Daniel?
              We can be as precious to Jehovah as they were, if we live lives of faith as they did. Jehovah will be earnestly desiring to give us his spirit if we do.
              We have to believe it’s possible and look for it, there’s an aspect of faith and trust.

              I think it may be the influence of the WT that makes us feel presumptuous to believe that Jehovah will deal directly with us.

              I KNOW Jehovah doesn’t feel that way.

              Just the musings of a drowsy madwoman who should be tucked into her padded room snugly wrapped in her strait jacket fast asleep. ??

            • Burt Reynolds

              But is this not a time of faith? I have a musing too. In days long past and up to the time of Christ, miracles or demonstrations were used, such as with Ezekiel and Moses and Lazarus precisely to demonstrate the power and existence of Jehovah so as to build the foundation of faith as Christ said…’so that you may believe’ ( not to be a part of). We have similar demonstrations now in the outworking of prophesy. Indeed, if we could not determine these times to be prophetic, who would listen? Jesus said to Thomas, ‘blessed is he that believes, but has not seen’, indicating perhaps a time and even an immediate example of the need for faith ‘in things hoped for but not seen’. I cannot recall an event in the scriptures that directly benefitted the subject in a primary way. The water from the rock, did not elevate Moses, though he claimed the glory, but showed the power of jehovah and his generous open hand, protection, love, provision and command over his creation. Same with Lazarus, same with Job. The subject was always secondary. In the future, when the annointed are called to give witness, they will not speak a single word that is not given them by Jehovah, and their reward is death, but the proof will be of Jehovah on the people who kill them. I’m not suggesting that this is something we are not aware of or even that I am correct exactly in what I say, yet I for one cannot identify an instance of Jehovah acting in someone’s life that is any greater than their wish for it to be so. Manipulation, as with ‘hooks in the jaws’, then yes. Jesus gave praise to Jehovah for everything he accomplished through him and took nothing for himself. Then there is impartiality. If one is blessed, why not the other? And of what benefit has it been to those that wish for acceptance to the realm of heaven? Surely they must offer yet more proof of faith. Maybe we could be a basin to hold the water of life for others to drink from, but what does a basin know of its worth? What does the cable know of the power that surges through it? We will see people empowered by Jehovahs spirit as the bible says we will do so, but today, I feel the best we can hope is that we have the meal placed before us and are invited to eat, but that it is the same food that everyone else has before them. It is what we do with that food that proves its worth to us. We ingest it and use its power, or digest it and eliminate it as waste. Do we interpret the result as something other than that? I think we do do at our own risk of presuming it to be so. Someone tell me otherwise, because I for one would dearly love it to be more than that. It’s not that I do not recognise the existence of the meal set before me, more than what that means. But that the responsibility of its proper use is up to me. I feel we stand alone to make our choice. ‘My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?’

            • Huldah

              Forgive me if I show I don’t completely understand. Your style of writing is beautiful, but complex. (It actually does remind me a lot of Paul, no lightning strike intended.)

              The most extreme examples of help that I have received from holy spirit have been in the most distressing times in my life. Times of great anguish. Not quite to the point of sweating blood, but very very close.

              It’s true that miracles were provided as proof to build the foundation of faith, but if miracles and manifestations only occur to establish the foundation of faith, why did the angels appear to strengthen Christ, while he was a human? If all that is needed is the foundation, why was it necessary for Saul(Paul) to see Christ on the road to Damascus? How could his lone vision build the faith of others? What do we say about the holy spirit Robert has received to interpret the prophets? Then there is Gideon who was as unsure of himself as I was. Did he himself not benefit from the clear direction from Jehovah as to how to proceed? Did Hezekiah not get an answer as to his illness from the shadow on the steps? Even the brothers at Bethel (take it or leave it) pray for direction and expect Jehovah to provide it through his holy spirit.

              I suppose, all I am saying is that nobody is special. The prospect of having such a close connection with Jehovah as to receive a small push from him when you are desperately in need of it and looking frantically for direction.

              Luke 11:11″Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?
              So if you sinful people know how to give good gifts to your children,
              how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those
              who ask him.”

              As far as getting glory for yourself from Jehovah’s holy spirit, I believe Robert will attest with me that most (at least in the congregation )would sooner consider you a looney tune or an apostate for making such a claim. I have only ever told, in person, those closest to me of my most noteworthy experiences.

              Again, I have strong evidence that Jehovah is the one who acted in my behalf by directing me in some small ways on a few occasions. As far as enlightening my readings of the scriptures to see how they apply to me personally, those instances are too numerous to count. There is even a talk on Broadcasting Morning Worship (Br. Shafer) that directs us to read the bible with the idea in mind that Jehovah can move us to notice how the scriptures may apply to us in our personal situation at that moment. Take that or leave it.

              Lastly, I love that you brought up Matthew 27:46
              Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

              I have to post a question on it, but until I do, here is my answer to what you muse.
              As I mentioned, Jesus did not stand alone in all of this.
              Angels ministered to him right before his test.
              The very fact that he asked the question posed in Matt 27 is evidence that Jehovah’s spirit was with him up to that very moment. He only sensed, then, Jehovah’s complete withdraw of support.
              It had to be this way. As the perfect son of God, he had to take his final stand alone to absolutely , with no question, prove the Devil a liar.
              We are not perfect so it could be argued that Jehovah may never have to completely forsake us in this way for us the prove our integrity (just a passing thought).

              It is, alone, our responsibility to recognize that there is a creator …..

              Romans 1:20

              For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and
              sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible
              qualities–his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse
              for not knowing God.

              It is our responsibility to recognize the ring of truth and accept the true religion, even in the midst of opposition.

              Acts 13:48

              When those of the nations heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of Jehovah,* and all those who were rightly disposed for everlasting life became believers.

              I would be a liar, after what I have experienced personally, to say that we are expected to do a whole lot more beyond that without the personal attention of Jehovah’s spirit. Jehovah acts on us according to our faith. The strength of the influence of holy spirit upon us seems to build simultaneously and progressively with our demonstrations of faith.

              Jehovah’s dealings with Abraham were progressive like this, based on his faith.

              It was not until Abraham left Ha’ran (left the security of living near his relatives) that he made his first oath to Abraham to bless his seed. It was not until he offered up Isaac that Jehovah made the final detailed oath regarding Abraham’s seed overcoming all his enemies and blessing all the nations.

              “‘By myself I do swear,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that by reason of
              the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your
              son, your only one, I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply
              your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand
              that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate
              of his enemies. And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will
              certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my
              voice.’”—Genesis 22:1-3, 9-12, 15-18.

              Do we absolve ourselves from having faith like Abraham’s? No, we aspire to it. If we only attain to a fraction of it, why would Jehovah withhold a corresponding fraction of his spirit from us?

            • Richard Long

              I guess I would have to amend my statement that “I literally believe I wouldn’t know holy spirit were it strangling me” to something more like “I have to date not been trained to recognize the leading(s) of the holy spirit”.

              How holy spirit operates during my bible reading: Mostly, makes me feel like an idiot for looking up the scripture AFTER posting on a matter because it turns out I had been holding a misguided notion! I know that’s comical, but I really think Jehovah is training me the only way I will accept, namely club to the noggin.

              Probably the single greatest impediment to a cooperative relationship or knowing encounter, if you will, between myself and the active force of Jehovah is my deeply held mistrust of authority. An insight to my personality can be found in the instance of discovering the lie of childhood mythology at about age 7 or so. My older brother showed me where the Xmas presents were wrapped and hidden in my parents closet and led me to “peek”. When the bb gun from the closet came labeled “from Santa” on the solstice, the gig was up and I have been unmasking conspiracies ever since. My poor parents either couldn’t or just didn’t know me personally well enough to know that I would never be able to trust them again. Some kids can shake it off, but I was never able to.. And they both certainly seemed to work overtime to further erode my confidence in them, but that is another matter. I am able to love them freely and long for their company, but I am still unable, or more likely unwilling (because I can be a hard man), to trust.

              And I firmly believe the angels watch over us, even worldly people behaving stupidly. It may be perception, of course, but I have literally seen things like car crashes that DIDN’T happen in defiance of the laws of physics.

            • Huldah

              I’ve gotten the “club to noggin'” sort of responses too… hurts.
              Oddly, I have A LOT of trust issues too. Disturbing parental background, CHECK.
              Is it just that we are super sensitive that we find it hard to trust someone again after we are misled? Hmmmmm….

              As far as being watched over is concerned….
              2 Chronicles 16:9
              NET Bible
              “Certainly the LORD watches the whole earth carefully and is ready to strengthen those who are devoted to him.”

              I would hope you would know it wasn’t holy spirit if it were strangling you!That phrase from your previous post, didn’t hit me too hard until you put it right at the top of this post. Lol Nice save with your rewrite. Sounds like something you would say in response to an Elder’s question about 1914 during a judicial committee. Which thought is more chilling, an unseen hand strangling you or an Elder asking to explain your view of 1914?

              See now, you go me being spooky and morbid!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Food for thought.

              The holy spirit, which the Father will send in Jesus’ name, will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things that Jesus taught through the scriptures. John 14:25.
              But please keep in mind how can the holy spirit bring back to your mind all the things that Jesus taught if we didn’t put the information in our mind in the first place as to get trained?.

              That’s why Jesus said “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ John 17:3.
              But go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.To him [be] the glory both now and to the day of eternity.
              2 Peter 3:18

              Psalms 144:1-2.
              May Jehovah, my Rock, be praised, Who trains my hands for battle, My fingers for warfare. He is my loyal love and my stronghold, My secure refuge and my rescuer, My shield and the One in whom I have taken shelter, The One subduing peoples under me. Psalms 144:1-2.

              Search results for: Holy spirit. Read a lot more>
              https://e-watchman.com/?s=Holy+spirit

            • Richard Long

              “I would ‘give my back teeth’ (I have them in a box) to be able to know how or why Jehovah would have the life force return to him for some, and for others to stay apart here on earth, and for that which is his that returns to him, to be given independence of him”.

              Isn’t it true that the original intent was for the life force to remain on earth eternally, expanding and to never return? Isn’t the return to him of some the life force the result of an arrangement made necessary following the calamity whereby Jehovah was “forced” to either accept the eventual return of all of the life force or masterfully design a loving, just, powerful, and wise counter-insurgency to to his rebellious children?

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yes, I would think you are right. The only exception to that would be if the sin of Adam and Eve occurred before any intended earthly arrangement was implemented. But as Jehovah had ‘completed’ his creation maybe you are absolutely right. I had not thought that far. If it works, why fix it? as they say. Yet we don’t know what other purpose Jehovah had in store for us. Adam and Eve were childless at that time and the earth was not filled, and there is no reason to believe Jehovah would not continue in his creative manner after his day of rest. Jehovah also likes to share his gifts and disparity in the human condition and character seems a natural inbred issue according to choice and so one might assume that a heavenly existence for some would not be off the cards. But maybe, as you say, such may not have been necessary as Jehovah clearly had a personal relationship with Adam and Eve before they chose to sin. As Jehovah does not change and his purpose cannot be thwarted, that leaves a whole can of discussion over the topic as to what was and what could have been! Nice for developing viewpoints all round, but without resolution. Come to think on it; is it possible even to have the discussion ‘what if Jehovah…..’ As whatever Jehovah does is perfect and thus presumably any alternative would not be! I’m just not qualified in this area Richard! Over to you old bean!

        • Francis Bencharles

          Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834:

          You may be better off not eating and drinking with the Watchtower as you would be sharing the emblems with men who are actually dead who are touching the bread and wine before you, making it dead. If you are indeed one who has been chosen by Jehovah and the Holy Spirit to be a part of Jesus Bride you will enjoy this priviledge with him….

          28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me+ in my trials;+ 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,+ 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom,+ and sit on thrones+ to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.+” Luke 22:28-30. Same thing with Watchman and any other truly anointed ones who remain to be sealed.

          He said he would not eat and drink of the product of the vine until he does it new “with you” in the Kingdom of God. That’s the one that counts. Too many Judas’ partaking with the JW’s these days.

      • Burt Reynolds

        I read that article again too, ‘it is evident that those who are about to be killed will be killed by the beast in the post-crash world for their refusal to worship the beast.’ But is this not true for those who are not anointed also? Does this apply then to all faithful, that some will be resurrected to life on Earth, some to heaven ? Same test, different outcome? Thanks.

        • Huldah

          Hi Burt
          We’re having a sort of Englandish day here in the Eastern mountains of the US of A. ( I’m being vague and stealth about my location. Aren’t I clever??)
          Unseasonably cold and rainy. The creek below my house is flooding its banks.

          On to your question….
          There has to be a great crowd that survives so the other sheep don’t all have to die as I see it just pass the test.
          As Br. King points out tge anointed will receive indestructability in heaven so to me they have to be thoroughly proven. Dying a martyrs death like Christ would seem to be a natural course for those who are to be made higher than angels and much like Jesus in having ” life in themselves”.

          I assume it’s possible for some of us to die then or be martyred just not a requirement to my understanding.

          I will be interested to hear what others have to say.

          • Joseph of Aramathea

            I’m a East Coaster ! , Sounds like you’re experiencing the Arkansas flooding? It’s cold and rainy here in Virginia.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Joseph. Hope you are wrapped up warm. Are there any brothers or sisters on this site from the west coast..

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              Not really sure, everyone seems to tiptoes around who they are and where there from. How are you making out , were you able to find employment?

            • Jamie Mac

              Yeah, I have, thanks for asking. 🙂

              What’s your take on the comments from this article about the sequence of events. I kinda understand what Robert is saying. I checked another one of his articles which helped me. This is the one I checked out.

              https://e-watchman.com/great-tribulation-holy-place/

              .

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              That’s great news, I was feeling your stress.
              In view of the numerous contradictions and the disharmonious way the prophecies have been stitched together, it is evident that the Society’s interpretations are wholly artificial. Contrary to what we read and learn about here on Robert’s site. He has put together a pretty accurate list of what we should expect going forward.

            • a watcher

              Expect the unexpected! Downsize, simplify, and be ready for anything.

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              Great advice, that’s exactly what I’ve been working on the last 7 years!

            • Jamie Mac

              Thanks Joseph for thinking about me. I am looking forward to meeting you one day in circumstances beyond our wildest dreams.

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              Me too!! Looking forward to that time more than anything!!

            • Jamie Mac

              I wonder if the folks are a bit wary of giving to much away in light of the surveillance being undertaken by the NSA and GCHQ.

              I could be paranoid and way of the mark, but I’m pretty sure there is a list in some agencies filing cabinet which has all the people who would be rounded up first when the disgusting thing is put in place.

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              “Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house; and let the man in the field not return to the house to pick up his outer garment. Woe to the pregnant women and those suckling a baby in those days! Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime, nor on the sabbath day; for then there will be great tribulation…”

              Things can change overnight, look at the brothers and sisters in Russia…….

              https://youtu.be/23ZRPhX8pHo

            • Jamie Mac

              Looks like they are carrying a lot more than just their bibles 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Joseph, I will be pleased to be the first to untiptoe in my wooden Dutch clogs…I’m a retired social worker, five children, live outside of Margate, Kent, in Blighty. 6ft 3″, built like a rugby player, green eyes and still got all my hair; one dog…Basil (BaZZal to you yanks not bay-sil ) one cat…Millie, one brother who is the worlds best cynic, two sisters, one the most pompous Catholic, the other the most self righteous JW, married to even more self righteous elder, and have two step daughters and got married in SanFranciso city hall on a leap year to save money on anniversary gifts. Likes: woodwork, gardening, antiquarian books and antiques and log fires. Driven across America with a load of lunatics in a Winnabaga , thought that America was a wonderful place…but, like England, shame about the inhabitants, carved my name on a rock in the Grand Canyon, ingested a McDonald’s hamburger in their establishment on the Mexican boarder in Ca, and that, I can tell you all, is like a French public toilet in that it defies description; picked up a few civil war bullets….they didn’t mess around with BB guns that’s for sure, and got into trouble with a Chinese waiter in New York for not leaving a tip… He even came out onto the street after me. Oh, and one last ‘experience’ …. Never take a photo of a red neck on a New York subway. My father was a free mason, and my mother and he burnt down the Inland Revenue office in London during the blitz by leaving incendiary bombs on the roof to burn, because they thought it their public duty to do so. Quite right too. That’s about it really, so if our secret services can squeeze anything more dramatic out of me, I’ll let you guys know. They can come and take me away anytime.

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              You sound like quite the English Gent! One tip, stay away from establishments on the Mexican border…..

            • a watcher

              I’m in CA.

            • Jamie Mac

              California, seems like a million miles away from where I am in England. However, with the help of my keyboard and my fingers I can have a conversation with you almost in real time. Isn’t technology wonderful :-).

            • a watcher

              LOL! I thought you meant the west coast of America. Duh!

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi again A Watcher. I did. 🙂 I was having a conversation with Joseph and he mentioned he was an E Coaster. So I asked the question about the west coast.

              Sorry about the confusion. What’s the weather like in C.A. I have never been to the U.S, but C.A would be the one place I would like to visit.

            • a watcher

              Typical Spring weather here: cool one day, warm the next.

              California is beautiful, but expensive.

            • Jamie Mac

              Have you ever visited the dull and dreary UK?

            • a watcher

              No, I don’t enjoy traveling. I’m a homebody, a hearth hugger.

              But I find English history fascinating, especially the Queens: Eleanor, Elizabeth I, Victoria.

            • Jamie Mac

              Oh yes , our Royal Family. I have to admit I sometimes cringe at the ceremonies and traditions which are centred around the Royal Family. You may find that a strange remark coming from an Englishman.

              You may already know that the current crop changed their name to Windsor around the time of WWI. They had a German name at the time (Saxe-Coburg and Gotha). Considering that particular moment in history, it was a wise move.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I say old chap…steady on!

            • Richard Long

              As a native Californian transplanted to Ky, i can report that Ca has only two seasons:
              1) Fire Season
              2) Flood Season

            • Southern ShaSha

              Hi Richard, interesting what a small country we live in. I’m also a native California transplant to North Alabama!

            • Richard Long

              Now tell me that your southern grandparents took your parents west in the 60’s for Ca’s economic boom, and you brought your children back to the south in the 90’s for economic boom….

            • Southern ShaSha

              Nope, they were all Californians, never left. We left, to many people, to much smog. May be beautiful to some but serious rat race to us.

            • Richard Long

              I grew up about 20 miles from Yosemite, but spent about 10 years in San Bernardino, Riverside and N San Diego Counties, so I definitely know rat race. I was Baptized at Norco.

            • Southern ShaSha

              Yes, we lived in Southern California mostly, San Juan Capistrano for awhile too. We were baptized in Lakewood. Our study brother and sister and best friends had family in Norco, we visited numerous times. Do miss the dear friends we had there. We did a lot of camping and vacationing in Yosemite.

          • Jamie Mac

            Hi Huldah. I am here in England and we are experiencing Englandish weather as well :-).

            Although the weather forecasters have promised a better day tomorrow. What do they know anyhow.

            • Burt Reynolds

              If you don’t like the weather in England, wait a minute!

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Huldah, ? in…..the……. Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia, on the trail of the lonesome pine…? yes you are right, there are going to be survivors of the great crowd. The annointed will have to learn the words of the song….?everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die….?. The scriptures seem a little ambiguous at times. It’s not a position to be in that I envy, but the annointed will certainly be reassured knowing that they are chosen and that transformation is immediate.

            • Huldah

              Lol “everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die…” That is remarkably fitting. Are you sure you haven’t used that one here before?

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s just an old song from the 50s I think, but the rationale has stayed with me for life.

          • Bklyn Kevin

            JEHOVAH HIMSELF HAS BECOME KING Chapter 25 – Revelation .
            Read more> http://jehovah-is-king.com/revelation/

            Read a lot more>
            Search results for: Great crowd. https://e-watchman.com/?s=Great+crowd

    • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

      All now those 20 or so thousand who are partaking cannot said they are all anointed ones. They are some imposters installed by Satan in the midst of the anointed members. Only during parousia we will know who they are.

      • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

        Yes I know this. Your right.

      • muldoon55 .

        I still can’t get my head around how Jehovah can anoint any one in the org from 1914 on since the anointed, as Mr King lays out in his publication, are in need of cleansing and chastising due to a host of factors so splendidly explained in his publication.
        Some of these being
        Improper understanding of the most important prophecy in scripture,
        tolerance of pedophilia,
        deceiving the masses of unprepared witnesses to what will amount to be the the greatest stumbling block ever as the org faces its destruction at the hands of Gods
        appointed cleanser
        Christ Jesus, and not to forget the community guilt incurred from the adulterous decade long relationship with the UN as one of its ngo partners.
        I could go on and on but how is it that a righteous God could pour His spirit of anointing on such a wayward group who are so ignorant and in need of cleansing and chastening?

        • Burt Reynolds

          Yes it’s a conundrum isn’t it and the closer this system and the organisation get to destruction, the plainer your arguement becomes. There is though, the arguement of innocence due to ignorance (blindness?), but though that could have been overlooked perhaps years ago, the competing instances of wrongdoing erode that area of mercy pro-rata. Then there is the issue of the sinful state of mankind and which surely must carry some weight: of what value is Christ’s sacrifice otherwise? And that being so, wilfulness must be a factor, over ignorance. Heart condition is yet another. And so on ad nauseam ad infinitum. But then we have the example of Paul on the road to Damascus and the example of the believer within the Sanhedrin….I forget his name.

          I think overall, Robert’s point remains valid and I understand that to be comprised of several facets, they being that primarily, we should not judge the issue of motive or heart, as illustrated by the brother in the Sanhedrin; that there is a responsibility on us to assist those within the congregations, as some have evidenced this to be so; and that no matter what the case, the watchtower remains the arrangement of Jehovah for as long as he sees fit to allow this wrongdoing you write of to exist. Thus the greater their sin, the greater the vindication of his name and the demonstration of both.

          However, were I one of those in the situation you describe, I would have begun, I think, given my blindness during my time in the watchtower, to question my conscience at the revelation of the UN debacle. Second, the child abuse issue would have finished me off and the biblical admonition to get out of her, would have rung true in my mind. But to where? And to some righteous brothers and sisters, that may be the reason they stay. After all, I left with nowhere to go. I abandoned Jehovah’s organisation. Had I seen then, what I see now, I would have stayed. But I did not have that understanding or knowledge then and I was looking at people and their actions, not at Jehovah and with any insight into him. But maybe those who know it and choose to stay, do so for a reason. And the only reason I can suggest, is that the watchtower has, and still does, echo truth, or more exactly, the evidence and existence of Jehovah, if not the truth about him. Even then, there is still the basis of truth in the watchtower. And thus it is perhaps, the apostles themselves that answer for those of the anointed or to be appointed, who remain when they said to Jesus …where will we go? To those ones, the tribulation will be their pointer as to where, and the Holy Spirit will direct them as to why. Thus they will be armed and equipped to take many or all who are deserving with them, just as Jehovah used spies within the camps of his enemies, and for another example, left standing, the home and family of the prostitute who helped the army of Jehovah ( details in someone else’s memory!). I would count it as a singular honour to be used, even unwittingly, by Jehovah to remain on board amongst all that filth, evil and double dealing going on, so that I could save the life of just one person, to take that fellow of Jehovah by the hand and say, come with me, time to get out of here, Jehovah has left the building. It makes my heart glow in dreams of glory…so much better than my being an armchair witness with my feet up on the table as I am doing now! Sigh….

          • muldoon55 .

            As usual Burt an eloquent and reasonable answer to my question
            Thank you
            I think when the shtf we will all get off our lazy boys and be used powerfully by Jehovah for I feel then many will be more than willing to hear what’s really going on

            • Burt Reynolds

              That’s what I’m hoping for, because I don’t think I’ve done much with shekels I been given.

            • Francis Bencharles

              The final preaching and gathering of the “great crowd” will all be accomplished by thee angels. You could be fooled by an impostor, the angels cannot.

        • Francis Bencharles

          It is absolutely no different than drawing them from Judaism of the First Century. That one time faithful (at times) group had apostatized
          from pure, clean and holy Judaism. But, Jehovah could still find those from Jehovah’s Witnesses who had as pure a heart as they could based on the cesspool that they had to develop it in (the world much, the WT the rest). Jehovah did not look for people who had total truth about his word the Bible, because that simply does not exist as yet and probably won’t until well into the Kingdom of God. He was looking for those that were pure at heart, not brain or in Bible Knowledge. All that can be taught to them, especially when they inherit life within themselves if that becomes reality.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Jeremiah 17:1-27

          13 O Jehovah, the hope of Israel,
          All those who abandon you will be put to shame.
          Those apostatizing from you will be written in the dust,
          Because they have abandoned Jehovah, the source of living water. Read more>
          https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/jeremiah/17/#v24017010

  • Marc Tilley

    How long will the Great Tribulation last? I’ve understood it to be 42 months, 3 and a half years….

    • I seriously doubt it could go on for years. Jesus said it will be cut short. The 42 months is the post trib period.

      • Marc Tilley

        So the first 5 seals aren’t part of the 3 and a half year period? The four horsemen start their ride prior to the 42 months? Then we have the GT for an unspecifed period, it’s cut short, and then the holy city is trampled upon for 42 months?

        Surely the 3 and a half year period commences around the time of the opening of the first seal??

        • Here is what we know. After the beast suffers a mortal wound and comes back to life it wars against God’s people for 42 months. The mortal wounding of the beast is what is symbolized by the sun going black and the moon turing to blood, etc. The heavenly luminaries symbolize various governmental institutions over mankind. Obviously the governments are in operation when they make the decision to go to war, when nations rises against nation and kingdom against kingdom, but at some point shortly thereafter they cease to function. No doubt due to war and financial collapse, maybe EMP, etc.

          • Huldah

            I’m trying to wrap my head around this.

            #1 War Govts perhaps start WW 3
            #2 Collapse mortal wound of Anglo empire
            (Probably the war is what economists call the “black swan event” that topples our Ponzi scheme economy and total economic collapse ensues.)
            #3 Judgement on House of God 3.5 years testing.
            I’m thinking they will want all the JW money and property once the economy collapses.We even sold a building to Jared Kushner so they are well aware of what JWs have.
            #4 Tyrannical world govt revives itself
            Or are 3&4 reversed?
            #5Destruction of BTGreat which starts Great Tribulation.
            #6 Martyrdom of chosen ones Gog’s attack????
            #7Armageddon destruction of wicked

            Not sure where to fit when chosen ones are revealed.

            Anybody feel free to add or adjust my thinking.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Hello Hulda…do you know about Jared Kushner and his office in 666 fifth avenue?

            • Richard Long

              What a surprise!

            • Huldah

              Hi Arvid
              I’m notoriously naive, but that sounds like it could be reeeaal?

            • Richard Long

              It’s real. Google or Wikipedia 666 Fifth Ave

            • Huldah

              I did. Funny how I was thinking about how easily Trump could be the tyrannical dictator of the new world order. His methods and narcissism match, but something makes me think it won’t be him. Then…I thought of Kushner. A perfect slimy snake if I ever did see one and he’s training in all Trump’s methods or maybe he’s the one coaching “The Donald”. My dad’s name is Donald. It means king of the world.

            • Richard Long

              The Illuminati are putting their money on Bonny Prince William. They follow bloodlines too. I don’t know how it will shake down, but an American seems unlikely, as we’re the dupes in the whole charade anyway.

            • Richard Long
            • Bklyn Kevin

              The Revealing of the Sons of God.
              Excerpt:
              When Christ comes the guarded secrets will be revealed to those with faith. And for a certainty, it will require faith to move into that new paradigm, one in which Christ will become manifest to the sons of God, who will then be revealed to “the creation” during the last hour of this dark world. By all means, then, supplicate Jehovah that your faith may not give out! Read more> https://e-watchman.com/revealing-sons-god/

              Also read
              A Revelation to John9:1-21 https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/revelation/9/

              JEHOVAH HIMSELF HAS BECOME KING
              Chapter 5 – The Parousia> http://jehovah-is-king.com/parousia/

            • insert the part they preach like locust five months; must be #5?
              the 2 witnesses for 1,260 days; must start at #3?

      • Marc Tilley

        Wasn’t the first century Tribulation 3 and a half years in length?

        • Not really. The Romans armies came in 66 CE and then inexplicably withdrew. But they did not lay siege to the city. After they withdrew life went back to normal. Until the suddenly returned. Then the tribulation began. That is why Jesus warned Christians to get out when they first saw the disgusting thing standing where it ought not.

      • Marc Tilley

        I’ve been digesting all this for the last couple of days, and thanks for helping to view all this with a more accurate perspective. Another Brother shared an excellent article to help me with it too… this part confused me though…

        “Since the connection is obvious, it is also apparent that the “appointed times” equal 42 months. Combined with the related prophecies of Daniel regarding the time, times and half a time the holy ones are to be trampled on during the time of the end, it is apparent that the “appointed times” of Christ’s prophecy relate to the length of the tribulation, during which time God’s people are dominated by the nations. (Interestingly, it was roughly 42 months from the time the Roman armies first encamped against Jerusalem until the city was destroyed.)”

        The length of the Tribulation 42 months??

  • Francis Bencharles

    Tribulation is used like 35 or 36 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures to varying degrees. Here are a few places where it is mentioned (thlipsis in the Greek)

    In Acts 11:19 the word is used in regard to Stephen’s travails…
    “Now those who had been scattered+ by the tribulation that arose over Stephen went as far as Phoe·niʹcia, Cyʹprus, and Antioch, but they spoke the word only to the Jews.+” Act 11:19
    So the word tribulation in and of itself does not always refer to the “great tribulation”, however this tribulation ended in Stephen’s death and martyrdom.

    Matthew 24:9, 21 29…
    9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation+ and will kill you,+ and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. Matthew 24:9 One type of tribulation
    21 for then there will be great tribulation+ such as has not occurred since the world’s (Satan’s system of things, after Adam’s sin) beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. Matthew 24:21
    29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened,+ and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. So, there is one kind of tribulation following another kind of tribulation.

    Mark 4:17, 13:18-20, 13:24
    17 Yet they have no root in themselves, but they continue for a time; then as soon as tribulation (again, a lesser form of tribulation) or persecution arises because of the word, they are stumbled Mark 4:17
    14 “However, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation+ standing where it should not be (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.+ Mark 13:14

    18 Keep praying that it may not occur in wintertime; 19 for those days will be days of a tribulation+ such as has not occurred from the beginning of the creation that God created (((even more unprecedented than Matthew’s mention))) until that time, and will not occur again.+ 20 In fact, unless Jehovah* had cut short the days, no flesh would be saved. But on account of the chosen ones whom he has chosen, he has cut short the days.+ Mark 13: 18-20

    24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light,+ 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man+ coming in the clouds with great power and glory.+ 27 And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.+ Mk 13:24

    John 16:33
    33 I have said these things to you so that by means of me you may have peace.+ In the world you will have tribulation, but take courage! I have conquered the world.”+

    Revelation 2:22
    22 Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed ((Jezebel, the GB)), and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation ((I committed adultery with the GB by placing their disgusting promotional articles about their lover the U.N.)(I have since repented of this act—I hope you have too, if not it’s not too late))), unless they repent of her deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts*and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds.+ Rev. 2:22 Jehovah has not forgotten this deadly sin, you should not either unless you repent.

    Revelation 7:14
    So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation,+ and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.+ So although the Tribulation will be a bad time for many it will be salvation for all those who do repent and accept and show faith in Christ’s sacrifice during this time.
    So, when the Anglo/American beast is slain by the deep State of itself, the tribulation will start and no doubt war will be declared against whom they blame the false flag on. Tribulation will go on until the fourth beast of Daniel 7 takes power and sometime after that they will declare the laws about the “Mark”, whatever form that may take. This is the start of the “Great Tribulation” mentioned in Mark “unprecedented Tribulation” never having happened, all the way back to the Creation. This is the “Great Tribulation”. But it will be very short because if not, no one would survive.

  • Huldah

    Ellicot’s commentary from Bible Hub on 2Tim.4:8
    And not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.—Then St. Paul, instead of concluding this section of his letter with the glorious words telling of his serene courage and of his confidence in a crowned and immortal life, adds a gentle reminder to Timothy: he, too, with any others who really look for the Second Coming of the Lord, might win the same glorious crown—the sure guerdon of righteousness. The Apostle specifies here exactly the persons for whom “the crown” was reserved—those who in this life have indeed longed for the appearance of the Lord in judgment. None here could in very truth desire “His appearing,” save His own, who love Him and struggle to live His life. Calvin well remarks: “(St. Paul) excludes from the number of the faithful those to whom Christ’s coming is a source of terror.”

    Always wondered what loving his manifestation meant.
    It means looking forward to the coming judgement and cleansing of God’s people rather than fearing it or dismissing it.
    As John said ” Amen, come Lord Jesus”.
    And Robert said” Bring it on”.
    I don’t know about you but I’m doing a lot of sighing and groaning over the wickedness of this system.
    Just want it to end.

    • Charles

      I share your feelings, just wanting the end to come. Sometimes I think it would be easiest to get beheaded for the faith and then only to be resurrected to heaven. I feel l am impatient. And often pray to Jehovah God to help me not to just sit passively and feel bad about waiting for the end. I try to find meaningful things to do just to get the time go faster.
      And about those “who have loved his manifestation”. Surely Jesus will appreciate his disciples that personally have love for him. We love him and are grateful that he came to earth and lived among us and taught us just as if Jehovah God himself had done if He would have come down here. And we love Jesus for the love he had for us, because he came willingly down here to help us and die for us.
      John 16:27 “For the Father himself has affection for you, because you have had affection for me and have believed that I came as God’s representative”.
      Like the faithful apostles loved Jesus, so can we. We can in addition to love to see the judgement over this wicked world, also just love to have Jesus’ presence near us.

      • Charles

        This is a good one also 1Peter1:7,8:

        “in order that the tested quality of your faith,(….) may be found a cause for praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.+ 8 Though you never saw him, you love him. Though you do not see him now, yet you exercise faith in him and are greatly rejoicing with an indescribable and glorious joy, 9 as you attain the goal of your faith, your salvation.

      • Huldah

        Habakkuk asked “How long, Oh Jehovah?”
        John said, “Amen, come Lord Jesus.”
        The apostles thought the kingdom would manifest itself then.

        Maybe it’s impatience. Maybe it’s just human. Maybe it’s a sign of righteousness to have the clarity to understand how much we need the kingdom, how wonderful it will be and have real faith in it’s coming. Probably the latter.

    • Burt Reynolds

      I would imagine that it is a human tendency to fear our own cleansing because the measure of it is not known to us as we do not understand the depth of Jehovah’s love, and neither do we understand the height of his justice. But we all fear the unknown or more to the point, the unknowable. All We can be certain of, is that we are not worthy of either. Those ‘worldly people’ on the outside, who do not even consider this question, tend to mock those that not only want it, but love it and fear it at the same time. Is it presumptuous to bring it on? Mathew six states clearly to pray for it, even I pray for it but at times it makes me feel as did Charles the first on his execution (January 30th 1649) saying to the executioner, ‘strike cleanly’….get it over with because it is inevitable. Yet the other half of me, like you, dearly wishes for it, some with confidence, others, and I think I lean towards this side, because we just don’t want to be in this system of things but pretty well doubt our continued existence.

      • Huldah

        Remember the illustration about the Pharisee who was praying about how great he was and the lowly man who lamented his sinful state?

        We are right to have a modest view of the sureness of our own salvation.

        My strongest drive is the disgust I have for the depth of the world’s wickedness.
        Maybe that was Lot’s wife’s problem. She didn’t hate the wickedness of Sodom and see it’s destruction as a relief.

        We’re much safer if we do.

        • Burt Reynolds

          I’m with you on that Huldah.?

      • Richard Long

        I might have expressed this at some point previously, but I’m of the mind that being freed from the erroneous and irrational fear of eternal torment, we can wish for the end of the system sooner rather than later with relative peace of mind. I want those Jehovah deems worthy to have the benefits of the Kingdom, even if I am not one of them.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Yes I can understand that sentiment. Even not making it through is better than continuing in this system and leaving our children to it.

  • Nigel

    Thanks for sharing this revelation, Brother King. Quite profound. Hallelujah!

  • Thinking

    Hello Avrid…I don’t know where you have gone but I want you to know I truly appreciated your gentle genuine ways and your depth of knowledge which you were just starting to share ….perhaps a better place for you is at e JW.org….you are not alone brother ….

  • JTK

    wonderful enlightening commentary Robert, i just wonder how it will be for the great crowd duiring this period,

    they too must also withhold from receiving the mark and will suffer in the GT and support the remaining ones chosen out of the 12 tribes. they are also dressed in white and receive their reward by exiting the GT into a new world to be led by the lamb in preperation for a paradise on earth

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