Do you belong to God’s spirit-directed organization?

//Do you belong to God’s spirit-directed organization?

Saturday, December 2

I have come . . . to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.—John 6:38.

Imagine that a friend gives you a car as a gift. He hands you the title and says: “I will keep the keys. And I will be the one who drives the car, not you.” How would you feel? Now think about what Jehovah rightfully expects of a person who makes a dedication to him, a person who tells him: “I am giving you my life. I belong to you.” What if that person were to start living a double life, perhaps secretly dating an unbeliever? What if he were to accept employment that crippled his whole-souled service in the ministry or attendance at Christian meetings? Would that not be like keeping the keys to the car? A person who dedicates himself to Jehovah is, in effect, saying: “My life belongs to you more than to me. If there is ever a conflict between what you want and what I am inclined to want, what you want will win—every time.” That would reflect the thinking of Jesus, as stated in today’s text.

As long as we are using silly car illustrations: Imagine that you wish to give your car to someone as a gift. But when you go to transfer the title to the recipient you realize that someone has fraudulently inserted their name on the title. Legally it is not your car to give away.

This might illustrate the position of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their dedication. Although one may earnestly wish to dedicate themselves to God and Christ the Watchtower has insidiously inserted itself into the sacred contract as your master.

Nowhere is that more evident than in the so-called baptismal vows that have been scripted by the Watchtower, so that since 1985 every person wishing to be baptized is required to publicly proclaim “yes” to the following question: “Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?”

Obviously if someone has studied and progressed to the point of baptism they have been vetted by the elders and surely recognize that their baptism will identify them as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. That being true, why is it required to publicly confess to belonging to the organization? Has God required this of you? Did first century Christians declare they were in association with the spirit-directed apostles?

Actually, some did identify themselves as belonging to prominent Christian elders, which is why in the opening words of his first letter to them the apostle Paul reproved some of the Corinthians who claimed to belong to Paul and Cephas and others. Surely, Paul was a spirit-directed man, as the Watchtower claims it is; so, why did the apostle object so vigorously to some of the Corinthians claiming to belong to him? Paul’s answer says it all: “Paul was not executed on the stake for you, was he?”

We might well pose the same question: Were any of the Governing Body executed on the stake for you?

The real problem is this: We all tend to be followers of men. It is a tendency in everyone of us. That is why even though they were anointed and had miraculous gifts of the spirit some of those in the Corinthian congregation claimed to belong to certain prominent apostles. Whereas, Paul took strong measures to squash that tendency, sadly the Watchtower promotes it. And that is a problem.

I do not believe that being snookered into confessing that one’s baptism identifies them as being in association with God’s spirit-directed organization in any way diminishes our dedication to God and Christ. Like those Corinthians who confessed that they belonged to so-and-so, we only belong to God’s spirit-directed organization if we make it so.

The downside of actually giving our heart to a spirit-directed organization is that when one is confronted with the fact that the spirit directing the organization is not always God’s spirit, then the faith of the devotee is put to the test.

Given the fact that there is now a growing number of persons who are leaving off from association with what they once confessed to recognize as God’s spirit-directed organization, it is apparent that Jehovah’s Witnesses are followers of men to a great extent. That becomes most apparent when persons cease to strive to do God’s will because of the hypocrisy and unfaithfulness on the part of the leaders of the so-called spirit-directed organization. In other words, such persons base their dedication to God upon the actions of others. As long as they perceive their leaders to be true they stay the course. When they perceive their leaders to be hypocritical then that nullifies their dedication.

Jesus foretold this developing situation when he said: “Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”

It should be evident that the increasing of lawlessness Jesus foretold does not have anything to do with common street crimes. The increasing lawlessness and growing loss of love directly impacts Christians; otherwise, why would it be necessary to endure to the end? No, those who are stumbled and who will hate and betray one another are Christians. For example, the Watchtower’s ongoing war against the victims of child abuse is lawlessness —being against the law of Christ that requires judges to support the disadvantaged orphans. No doubt many of already been stumbled by the Watchtower’s treachery and gross hypocrisy.

But the reason many have been stumbled and will yet be stumbled and betray one another, is because they are followers of men. And the trend already set into motion will only continue to worsen, as wicked men and imposters advance from bad to worse.

While the false prophets have already risen and have embedded their lies as the very foundation of God’s spirit-directed organization; namely, that Jesus began ruling the world in 1914 —the glorification of the organization will get worse and the false prophets will become outright anti-Christs when the end comes —the time of the end, that is. Then it will be impossible for mere followers of the spirit-directed organization to be saved. That is because Christ will require his followers to get out when once the disgusting thing stands in the place of God.

“OTHER MASTERS BESIDES YOU”

headquarters of God's spirit-directed organizationSpeaking of the judgment of the house of God to come, Isaiah places himself in the future, saying to God for us: “O Jehovah, you will grant us peace, because everything we have done you have accomplished for us. O Jehovah our God, other masters besides you have ruled over us, but we make mention of your name alone. They are dead; they will not live. Powerless in death, they will not rise up. For you have turned your attention to them to annihilate them and destroy all mention of them.” —Isaiah 26:12-14

Surely, the Watchtower has ruled over Jehovah’s Witnesses. The very fact that the leaders of the self-proclaimed spirit-directed organization have conscripted Jehovah’s Witnesses to construct an impressive corporate headquarters to rival worldly corporations, identifies them as having the spirit of this world with their showy display of one’s means of life. The masonic masters of Jehovah’s Witnesses further betray their lack of spirituality by their devotion to Jehovah’s visible organization. Little do they realize the only true organization is invisible. That is why at the coming of Christ the masters will not live. Jehovah’s visible organization will not survive. Only those who remain true to their dedication will be saved. 

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2017-12-02T18:03:44+00:00 December 2nd, 2017|Commentary|111 Comments
  • The Raven

    Thank you for explaining in detail what is stumbling many. Yes, folks for the most part have always been followers of men and Jehovah in His mercy will remove all the scales and give us the undeserved opportunity to follow Christ. It’s hard for many to remain and those of us out here , I believe, have already decided to put Jehovah and Christ foremost in our hearts and minds regardless the circumstances which placed us here. I sometimes feel like I’m on a platform with very few souls and we are still not completely certain about all matters but ever hopeful we can board that train.

  • recommended.

    John baptized with water. symbolic.
    Jesus with spirit. not symbolic.
    being dunked underwater does not matter. one of these is necessary which was Johns point, unless you think water has some athority

    • Isaac of Coimbatore

      John baptized with water. symbolic.
      Jesus with spirit. not symbolic.
      Then what is Watchtower’s baptism?
      Baptism of blindness?

      • Bklyn Kevin

        Due to the watchtowers man of lawlessness along with his operation of error it looks like it’s going to be a baptism through the fire.

        1 Corinthians 3:0 According to the undeserved kindness of God that was given to me, I laid a foundation+ as a skilled master builder,* but someone else is building on it. But let each one keep watching how he is building on it. 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.+ 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 each one’s work will be shown for what it is,* for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire,+ and the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one has built. 14 If anyone’s work that he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward; 15 if anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved; yet, if so, it will be as through fire.

        Matthew 3:11 I, for my part, baptize you with water because of your repentance,+ but the one coming after me is stronger than I am, whose sandals I am not worthy to take off.+ That one will baptize you with holy spirit+ and with fire.

        Zechariah 13:7 “O sword, awake against my shepherd,+
        Against the man who is my companion,” declares Jehovah of armies.
        “Strike the shepherd,+ and let the flock* be scattered;+
        And I will turn my hand against those who are insignificant.”
        8 “And in all the land,” declares Jehovah,
        “Two parts in it will be cut off and perish;*
        And the third part will be left remaining in it.
        9 And I will bring the third part through the fire;
        And I will refine them as silver is refined,
        And test them as gold is tested.+
        They will call on my name,
        And I will answer them.
        I will say, ‘They are my people,’+
        And they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God.’”
        Read more>
        https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/zechariah/13/#v38013008

  • J.M.J.

    Some JEHOVAH`S witnesses came to the door this morning .I brought this exact subject up .I asked why has the organisation put itself in the place of JEHOVAH . I said I do not recognize the W.B.T.S as JEHOVAH`S spirit directed organization .The woman asked who else preaches .I said there are two anointed who preach the truth as preached by the first century Christians .(Robert King and Peremino) Neither one wants anyone to follow them ,but wants all to open their minds and look and think outside the Watchtower box .This shut her down .I asked if she was aware of the eye of horus used on one of the Watchtower buildings . She said she had ,but had not looked into it .I said it was a command to make sure of all things and not just the things told to you as truths ,that it is on the internet . I took a Awake and asked why so thin .She replied the printing costs are so great . I said or maybe it is that lovely new building that has been built that has eaten up all the money ,the people must truly be suffering for their faith . We had a very nice chat ,and low and behold you do a topic on the very subject . I thank you for it as it re- affirms what I /we believe .

    • Jesus did say the good news will be preached in all the world. I would add that I am NOT preaching good news, but rather, bad news – at least, bad news for the Watchtower.

      That is interesting that she had heard of the eye of Horus assembly hall.

      • J.M.J.

        To a lot of us here it is very good news Robert .It is interesting that she had heard of the eye of Horus ,but I fear the society will use the add age not to look further to use damage limitation ..

      • Ken Rosenberg

        1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are different gifts, but there is the same spirit; and there are different ministries, and yet there is the same Lord; and there are different activities, and yet it is the same God who performs them all in everyone. But the manifestation of the spirit is given to each one for a beneficial purpose. For to one is given speech of wisdom through the spirit, to another speech of knowledge according to the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one spirit, to yet another operations of powerful works, to another prophesying, to another discernment of inspired expressions, to another different tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues. But all these operations are performed by the very same spirit, distributing to each one respectively just as it wills.

        Everyone has a role, and they are all different.

        Perhaps, it is based on personalities?

        • I deleted your post with a link to an X-Dub site. If they don’t link to me I don’t link to them. That’s my policy. And you may be sure that none of those weasels would dare link to e-watchman. Might give their readers too much to think about.

          • Isaac of Coimbatore

            What about templelijah website? What is your opinion?

        • Burt Reynolds

          You have a point there. I used to think that the bible was contradictory, not for this reason, but because of issues like loving your enemy and at the same time, walking off and leaving him because he does not believe what you say. What happened to forgiving your neighbour 77 times, and back calls etc? Then I think I came to an understanding that the scriptures are written to contradictory man and display all the options open to us and the thought processes we go through. It does not make it any easier, but it does show how Jehovah understands us.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Stephen Letts apartment. No1, Kings Drive.
        Knock knock knock….
        ‘Whad d’you want!?
        ‘Erm, I’m just preaching the bad news! Can I show you just how bad that is on my tablet?’
        ‘You mean it can get worse?!’
        ‘Oh a LOT worse. Jehovah’s kingdom is coming and things are going to get a LOT worse…..you wouldn’t believe just how bad things are going to get.’
        ‘Oh great, that’s good to hear. I thought you meant the stock market was crashing. Come in and let’s talk about it….Coffee?’

    • The voice

      Being still active I am now embarrassed and ashamed to preach to others while the Org is involved in deceptive lies and criminality

      • J.M.J.

        I do not think that there is anything to be ashamed of if you preach the truth.Do not say anything that is contrary to what you know .Be selective what you say . Jesus said to be as innocent as doves and as cunning as a serpent .

      • Isaac of Coimbatore

        Remember I and my wife is also active. A sister asked my wife last weekend could you explain Habakkuk so shall I bring my tab so that we can research using JW.org? My wife said come with the Bible, no research tools required. That sister raised her eyebrows and asked how all this sister? Know the truth the truth will set you free not bounded your thinking with org come feel the truth from the Bible. That sister agreed and she came ad my wife showed her the Hab:3:17, it actually fore tells the break down of God’s earthly organization it was really a different experience for that sister. So my friend don’t think that there is anything to be ashamed of preaching the real truth.

        • The voice

          Yes, very good point
          Thanks

      • Burt Reynolds

        Yes well take heart and dust yourself off because you are not preaching the watchtower but the bible. The truths of Jehovah, not of man, and if anyone asks you, you can tell them so. Many ‘Christians’ went to war with their clergy blessing their weapons, or burnt the righteous at the stake believing they were doing good. You don’t have to take on the sins of others because you stand alone before Jehovah and it is his word you are taking to the public. A rose you are, growing over a rubbish dump that is soon to pass away. If people are of the right heart, they will listen while you explain why you choose to grow there. The physician does not attend the healthy does he!

      • Yuri Fisher

        Hello there.
        I am also active and preach to people about Kingdom of God. And I also ashamed of what WT leaders doing to the Name of Jehovah. They lie and cheat and they call on Jehovah at the same time. Be sure, Jehovah also see it and He ashamed of WT organization. But we must remember that Jesus preached among corrupt Jewish leaders. He did not stop preach and teach only because Jewish leaders were corrupt. When someone will come to me and say your organization is corrupt I will say yes it is and leaders will be punished. But it is not the reason not to listen to Bible. Bible is not corrupt. Jesus is not corrupt. Jehovah is not corrupt. You yourself must worship Jehovah at any condition.
        So do not be discouraged. Preach and teach as nothing happens. Do not take responsibility for what corrupt people elders doing. They will have their “reward”. Satan uses such situations to stop people to preach and teach. Many stopped to study Bible because of leaders pf WT. But we must go on.

        • Isaac of Coimbatore

          That’s nice comment

          • Yuri Fisher

            Hello Isaac,
            Thank you for reply. I try to do what I preach. I know it is very hard to see what happens around in our organization. But Jesus also was around hypocrites and lairs. He was not in clean environment. And still he preached for 3,5 years as much as possible. I also was devastated for many years when I learned what kind of things going on in higher levels of organization. And it begins with local elders. Almost all of them corrupted. Some are good but spiritually blind. At least they sincere. But now with the help of this site I got stronger spiritually and do not give corruption to interrupt my life.

        • Max

          Perfectly said Yuri. That is what shows we are not followers of men. loved your post!

          • The Raven

            Exactly!

        • The Raven

          Thank you Yuri! Wonderful comment!

        • Thinking

          Bravo 👏🏾 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Thinking! Often think about you thinking out there. Wish you would think here more often! 😀

            • Thinking

              Check your FB
              bro 😀😀

    • Hello J.M.J.
      You wrote: I took a Awake and asked why so thin .She replied the printing costs are so great.
      At the end of an article on the home page of my website, I wrote this:
      “I would just like to finish with that little thought, going back to Russell’s statement above: “When He who says: “All the gold and silver of the mountains are mine,” fails to provide necessary funds, we will understand it to be time to suspend the publication.” Since January 2018, the publication of the Watchtower are reduced to the strict minimum (three per year). Should we draw a conclusion?”

      • KB

        Basically there is nothing left to say or write about. The old light is darkness. The new light is twisted old light as well. They are not putting time in the public publications because they just want them to go to JW.org anyway. The ministry has changed so much. Everything they write about is nothing new because its getting obvious they have missed the mark. Even the COs visit is like a mini assembly, don’t do this or that. Nothing new. 🤔

        • e.v.g

          Some JW’s are unloving people, they are more aware about their good standing in the congregation. They can hurt you without remorse. The watchtower advice about love and all that has no effect on them. The watchtower and its advice have a purpose for some kind of people.

        • Isaac of Coimbatore

          Just to add to your thought where is the prophecies they are writing? They are sailing in the dark in the midst of pacific ocean. Satan has completely controlled them through the man of lawlessness. Had I not known this website (e-watchman) I would have stumbled a lot when WTS collapses in the future.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Probably not. Not In isolation anyway I suppose. Those thoughts of Russell were the thoughts of men and we should compare any such remark with the bible for its authenticity. Yet as you point out, the overall picture is of decline and exposure, corruption and hardship, and those are issues described in the bible, of which its printing is a facet. I don’t know if income is actually in decline as Mr. Lett claims it is, because their real estate business seems quite buoyant. Clearly they don’t need the magazines for a primary source of income and by this action, they show that they save more money by not printing than they do by selling. The needs of the sheep are not primary by any means are they? Thus we can expect their dishonesty in the use of funds to grow. Where is all this money going? The tipping point can already be seen, and it may well be the Canadian class action, followed by Holland and Britain….if Britain actually ever gets moving in its law Courts, and which is doubtful. The law Courts here seem to be the personification of procrastination. As they say here: ‘We want justice! When do we want it? Sometime in the next few years will do…’😇

        • Isaac of Coimbatore

          Where is all this money going? Into the pockets of Child abuse case.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          We are surely seeing fulfillment of Prophecy right before our very eyes.
          Excerpt:
          Ezekiel 34:8, Jehovah calls them “my shepherds,” saying of them: “My shepherds did not search for my sheep, but the shepherds kept feeding themselves, and my own sheep they did not feed.”

          Woe to the Shepherds Who Have Become Feeders of Themselves

          Ultimately, Christ will call them to account for the utter abandonment of his sheep. This will occur in the future when the world is engulfed in war —a war the princes of Bethel have assured Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot happen. But the scattering of the worldwide flock is a certainty —written in the stone of God’s word. Here is what Jehovah has said: “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy, and say to the shepherds, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Is it not the flock that the shepherds should feed? You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, and you slaughter the fattest animal, but you do not feed the flock.You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bandaged the injured or brought back the strays or looked for the lost; rather, you have ruled them with harshness and tyranny. So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; they were scattered and became food for every wild beast of the field. My sheep were straying on all the mountains and on every high hill; my sheep were scattered over all the surface of the earth, with no one searching for them or seeking to find them.”
          Read more> https://e-watchman.com/woe-to-the-shepherds/
          https://e-watchman.com/woe-shepherds-feeders/

          • Burt Reynolds

            That’s a good description of them for sure!

      • J.M.J.

        I do know the reason for what the watchtower does .I try to keep looking forward .Having seen other sites of ex witnesses ,and interested people seeking the truth ,I try to not let my mind stray too much or let myself be consumed with hate or revenge .I try to stay peaceful to all I meet ,but pop in a witness wherever I can .I think that JEHOVAH when ready will expose all ,and deal with it .I try to make my lashes as few as I can as I have had a few by the watchtower and their servants already .

  • The Raven

    I understand this is still spirit directed to some extent and I understand how people were stumbled and left because they were followers of men and not God. This explains so many who have become enemies and will in the future too. However, I recall several articles in which you also spoke about those like many of us here who were not stumbled but never allowed in and others disfellowshipped for spurious reasons. I agree that folks should remain if possible as well. But given that the wt allows no recourse for much of this, is the endurance you speak of extended to all who call themselves Jehovah’s.?

  • Burt Reynolds

    RE: the tweet on Mr. Trump not coming to England. There is something else going on here. No one here is moved religiously. No one cares particularly about Catholics, proddies, or for that matter Muslims. Yes there are a few loonies who are racist bigots, but most of those are in government and safely contained. Someone is pulling Mays strings because religious apathy in England is almost total, and people even know more about who is in government than they do about religion, and that’s saying something! I think I can name the leader of the opposition and the prime minister and about two others. I have no idea at all who leads the church if England, an I live outside Canterbury! No. There is an agenda here against trump and this thing about religion and equality is just fluff. Guess we will find out soon.

  • into the light

    Re: today’s daily scripture, isn’t this exactly how they treat Jesus? He was given a car by Father and all the authority over it, yet keys are kept with Jehovah and he still drives the car. Not to diminsh Jehovah, far from it, but for the time being we need to understand that we are to follow his son; he will use that car to give us a ride back to the Father.

  • Seeker forGod’sKingdom

    We have to obey Jesus (God’s commandment..Matthew 17:5)
    … Jesus gave to us the baptizing “formula” Matthew 28:19
    and also we are adverted :
    ” Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God.
    The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son.” 2John1:9
    The question arises : The action of modifying (or adding to) Jesus words (Rev 22:18,19) by the WT, what does it means, and what will be the result for WT ?

    • Burt Reynolds

      My feeling of ‘what does it mean…what will be the result,’ has always been that they will bring the condemnation of Revelation 22, down on their heads. There are so many parallels in the watchtower, so many layers crushing down on the command to ‘preach the word in all the inhabited earth for a witness…’ And all these layers are man made and oppressive, adding to the burden, from the ruination of childhood through control and in many cases, abuse, control of the family and its income, pushing many into penury so that the watchtower can live in comfort and grandure. And so it goes on. Yet it is not what the watchtower does: that is for Jehovah to deal with, but what the watchtower is, that concerns us. And that is difficult to deal with for us. Maybe purposefully so.

      • The Raven

        I think you’re right about that. What the wt is and how we deal with it. But those who have been drawn by Jehovah are a testament to that “work”.

  • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

    I would argue that, Jesus said to baptize people and the name of the father the Son and the Holy Spirit.. Anything further than that is an infringement and nullifies the baptism. The scriptures do not mention being baptized in the name of the Father the Son the holy spirit in the temple of Jerusalem or anything else.. for a fact that when one learns the truth about the almighty God and his purpose and his son and what Jehovah expects of us, the has already undergone baptism of the heart. The water baptism itself is just an outward display of devotion it does not it does procure not anything more than that..

    • Burt Reynolds

      Yes, that is so. May I add that to me at least, the baptism is also like the marriage ceremony of those times, in that the decision to marry, and the issues that were raised, not least being the sanctity of marriage, was made public and could not be denied. The marriage of the lamb shows such public expression and unity. Public baptism also sets a measure by which we will be judged outwardly. It is a contract not just with Jehovah, but in our representation of him. This is reflected on the denunciation that Jehovah has and has had, on ‘his’ people.

      • Isaac of Coimbatore

        Yes that’s a good point

      • and it isnt known by show of one day water submersion

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/7/#v40007021

          Romans 2:13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous.
          James 1:22 However, become doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning.
          1 John 2:17 Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever.
          1 John 5:3 For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,

      • PCDN

        At the end of the day Jehovah will have the final say! so lets stop worrying about who’s baptized and who isn’t and worry about our selfs making sure that we don’t fall. cause as far as I know there are a lot of people who unbaptized publishers and those like myself who are are putting their BT on hold because they don’t want to be associated with the WT. Ac 10;35 ” but in every nation the man that fears him and does what is right is acceptable”

        • Bklyn Kevin

          It depends on how they truly fear Him, I mean do they truly love Jehovah with their whole heart mind and soul.

          • PCDN

            Right. Just like those who get baptized for the wrong reasons and others thinking that it’s a free ticket to paradise.

    • David

      What about thsoe young hearts that are Hoodwinked into Baptism by peer- pressure to follow along? Does their baptism have any meaning when they figure out how over controlling and in error the WTBTS is?

      • Burt Reynolds

        I see your point and many must wonder about that. Ultimately though, any baptism is only worth the value that the baptised puts upon it.

      • Bklyn Kevin

        Some things just have to be left in Jehovah’s hands.

  • Burt Reynolds

    I had to read some of this article several times! Pledging association with Jehovah’s spirit directed organisation no less! But I have to say with due consideration that you are right. We naturally associate the watchtower with self centred men that seek praise and treat people with ignorance and shame. We equate Jehovah with perfection in all things and thus the two divide markedly. Therefore it is easy to overlook, in our efforts to imitate Christ, that the ‘direction’ that Jehovah gives (allows?) to the watchtower, is not necessarily for their benefit, but for that of Jehovah and Christ, in drawing Satan to his distruction. I say direction, but Jehovah ‘allows’ the outcome of their lies and dealings to come back upon them as a dog returns to its vomit, rather than direct their footsteps perhaps? Thus they condemn themselves. They choose. Thus we making our stand for Christ, can stay affiliated because this is Jehovah bringing upon them, their justice, that they bring upon themselves. I can’t say I get on well with the words ‘spirit directed organisation’ and would prefer the term spirit led. I don’t get the idea that Jehovah would direct people to distruction, but that he would, justifiably, allow them to lead themselves according to their desires, through his will. This is so as far as the scriptures say that men are drawn out and tested by their own desire and the context….I think I am correct…..is that Jehovah cannot lie. Thus affiliating myself with this filth that is going on is difficult for me, and adding it to my baptism seems doubtful in terms of spiritual hygiene, because the bent of the watchtower is no longer to do the will of Jehovah in anything other that the act of preaching and even what they preach, is lies, and even what they teach, is harmful to all and worse for the vulnerable. And blood-guilt is already on their hands.

    Nonetheless, this is what men do, is it not? And your arguement is apart from that aspect of men, in that the watchtower is an instrument by which Jehovah’s will, will be done, just as it was in the days of Christ when total destruction was also reeked upon the temple. Though I would attend that temple right up to the hilt, I don’t think I could agree to support the meaning of the phrase as the watchtower put it in the baptismal questions, because it reflects the following of men, simply because that is why, to my mind, it has been included. As you note, it’s not necessary. Does this only matter if we allow ourselves to be part of that aspect as you say? To me, I would have to say that it does, or at least would interfere with my conscience, because it would affect the way that people saw me….even those asleep. I would be ‘one of them’. But I’m not one of them for the simple reason I am awake to the lie. I would not want them to think I believe as they do, just as Christ called those who thought they worshipped correctly, honestly, ‘vipers’ ‘sons of satan’. I want to be different. Like Paul said….I did not die for you, ergo, I am not a watchtower man, don’t follow me; or to be seen as subservient to and in agreement to the reasoning of the governing body, but that I am free to be all things to all men, so that they may be saved. Maybe I’m talking drivel. Put me right someone.

    • The Raven

      You’re saying exactly what I am trying to say Burt but I couldn’t phrase it near as well. That’s what I was after in asking Robert my question. Although I can understand and see the bigger picture here I agree that given the situation we’re in and they are very different how does that apply to all of us? If the exhortation to remain regardless of the men at the top stands and enduring (since some are not followers of men) is a standard then that implies those who have left are not considered as having “endured” and allowed themselves to be “stumbled” because they followed men. I have a problem with that as well. It appears that endurance may also be their undoing when Christ arrives. Stay or go. I find it hard to locate a place to land in this point of view. I agree with you, however.

      • The voice

        Dont forget in the days of Israels apostasy under Ahab Jehovah still had 7000 that did not bow to baal. I would consider this to be the same condition until Jehovahs judgement

        • The Raven

          Within, without or both? Btw those 7,000 are anointed.

          • The voice

            True
            But it can also apply to us as an example. Since our beliefs are based on biblical truth not what the Org is involved with

        • The Raven

          The question concerns those who may become part of the great crowd and those who are no longer part of the organization.
          For more on the 7,000 read here:
          https://e-watchman.com/what-about-the-7000-who-are-killed/
          https://e-watchman.com/revealing-hidden-christ/

          • The voice

            Yes
            I have read those articles and have review Jehovah has become king book as well

        • Burt Reynolds

          Interesting point for consideration!

        • Isaac of Coimbatore

          Yeah that’s right! Pinpointing the things.
          Let me add this.
          WHO IS THE MODERN-DAY AHAB RULING OVER THE CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION?
          We all know that King Ahab of Israel was married to Sidonian prince Jezebel (1st Kings: 16:31). So to please his wife he allowed the influence of his wife and promoted idol worship in midst of the people of Jehovah, thus BALL worship became the national religion of Israel during Ahab’s rule. He also promoted child sacrifice in Israel which the Jehovah never even commanded or spoken of and that had never even come in his thought (Jer: 19:5).

          Suppose if a member in the Christian congregation who is serving at lower position such as a publisher, pioneer (why even ministerial servants and elders) and if they promote, idolatry, other religious influence, and child sex abuse (= child sacrifice) they cannot be considered as Ahab, but we can say they are the subjects (or just like common Israelites supporters) of Ahab. Why because, if a member serving at lower level in the congregation do such things and tries influence others to do the same, they are marked by the elders and are at once dis-fellowshipped, so they are like common subjects who fear the rulers hence they are powerless hence they are not like Ahab. But, as you know that Ahab was a king, and can wield his power and evil influence over his subjects and thus he ruled over the nation of Israel a people dedicated to God. Similarly in modern days who aptly fits for Ahab? The one who rule (serve in the highest level = wield power) over the Christian congregation along with evil influences such as idolatry, other religious influence, and child sacrifice (=Child sex abuse), can be called as Ahab.

          Now in modern days who rules (wield power) over the Christian congregation? It is the Governing body members and their other associated prominent members such as publishing and teaching committee.

          The governing body members have the authority to remove anyone and change the rule in the congregations that means they have the ruling authority over other anointed ones and on all of Jehovah’s people be Zone overseers, Gilead missionary, branch committee members, circuit overseers, elders, coordinators, ministerial servants, pioneers and finally the poor powerless publishers.

          One must note that though many of the governing body members are the finest men, so not all the governing body members are like Ahab, we can say some individuals within that group (remember Judas Iscariot was there with the group of Jesus’ own handpicked disciples) and their other associated prominent members in the highest level of the Christian congregation who promote idolatry, allow child sacrifice(=Child sex abuse), Jezebel influences such as claiming themselves to be prophets but promoting false prophecies, and allowing foreign religious influence such as freemasonry sublime images in the literature that are dedicated exclusively for the name of Jehovah and the Kingdom of Christ such people who tolerate and knowing allow such things can be aptly called as Ahab. That means Ahab like persons serve in the highest level (ruling over) in the Christian congregation.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Interesting thoughts.

      • Burt Reynolds

        This is indeed a deep statement to have been made, but nonetheless Robert did not state it emphatically as a truth, but as a personal belief ( I think!). Even so, it is a point for consideration. However, Paul did say that he would ‘become all things to all men…’ Though I have no pretence at insight or learning, that statement would indicate to me that some sacrifice as to personal feelings, that do not transgress the will of Jehovah, may be an issue here. Personally, even though I do not attend meetings, I am still deeply committed to Jehovah’s purpose through the watchtower. I used to feel stumbled out of the watchtower, yet with the learning I now have, I accept that the watchtower does have a purpose and is in existence through the provision of Jehovah for people to learn, what must be said, as the basic elements of truth, ergo, faith and love…the greatest being love. Were it more than that, how could the test be equal for all? I can not hope to emulate the insight of some others, so what should I do?

        The issue could be one of abandonment to the faith in the provision. We see this both here, and explicitly so in the ex-JW sites. The focus being on the filth of what is being done to our brothers and sisters, being left in ignorance, and by their seeming acceptance to the rule of man, being complicit in child abuse. Oh yes! They are. To do nothing, is blood guilty. They have lost their reason through their ignorance. Jehovah’s provision for such ignorance of this nature, was perhaps the seven cities of refuge, and today, perhaps may be seen as the beating we shall receive for our lack of faith, sin and ignorance. But the point was, was it not, that the act was not intentional. How many witnesses are appalled at child abuse…clearly all but the perpetrator, but their ignorance in discharging their righteous feelings have been channelled sinfully by men. And those men are…? And we are expected to agree with them by this baptismal question. It seems so. Should we agree with sin to enter the house of Jehovah?

        This then brings into the frame, again perhaps, I myself talk in ignorance, the critical point of how others see us. Is this a factor in this this issue? All through the scriptures we see issues of people having to stand up for their beliefs, even misguided beliefs, in faith of service to Jehovah. Modern day examples….party cards in Mexico verses Malawi. Again, if we ‘touch the beast’ we are doomed and are cast out. Just for touching, the acceptance of a crumb of comfort, or in the case of Jesus, a simple loaf of bread, and even down to refusing to slake his thirst whilst hanging on the stake, because he was offered vinegar, the product of the vine, and which he had refused earlier to drink again at their last meal until he returned. So Jesus was honest to a decision of his own making. I don’t think for one minute that Satan was not behind that last trick. Imagine the thirst of the dying?! So there is a commitment to ourselves to be honest, and a commitment to the truth and the symbolism of the truth. Does this negate our conscience then in matters of our own making such as taking this oath of aliegence to the watchtower? It seems, maybe not. The crime one might suppose, is dishonesty to ourselves in our aliegence to praising Jehovah in our own conscience, as we, as dust upon the scales, perceive that to be. A very timely example of such is of a baptised witness getting baptised again to rid themselves of this perceived impurity in their watchtower statement of aliegence to the ‘principles’ of men, as they, the men, add glory and authority lyingly to themselves, above the requirements of Jehovah. And the joy of that one in cleansing their conscience thus, has made a huge impact to the good in their praise and peace of mind.

        Regardless, I no longer feel stumbled by the witnesses. My mantra during my years in the wilderness was always ‘Jehovah is more merciful than his people.’ And now, I see through my learning here, that this is indeed the case. Does one have to attend physically the Kingdom Hall, or is it in the heart of appreciation as to what is truth, the issue here? Is it attendance physically, or attendance in our prayers and soulful association in understanding? If we were in jail, or dead, are we still not affiliated to our faith in this message, and if we are given a conscience and are imperfect, do we not demonstrate that conscience by our love of truth and accept our beating because of our ignorance. How do we think outside of our own conscience and by doing so, manipulate our thinking to please ourselves? All I can say on that score, is that I still attend the house of Jehovah, though not yet at the Kingdom Hall. But when the time comes, I shall certainly go looking there to help, but my unstumbled faith remains in my heart and my faith in the provisions made. Oddly, the question as to the purpose of this site was asked recently. Perhaps that answer may be that this is a place to rest the troubled conscience as to this question, to keep clean, yet affilliated in pure worship….or at least more pure…..and is this not part of the provision, as much as a Kingdom Hall? I think that may have been overlooked. I hope it’s not heresy to say that though some may think so!

        • The Raven

          I am constantly making sure I am not standing on plastic.

        • The Raven

          As usual, Burt I have to step back pour a quart of coffee and sit still and think about what you said. I do constantly watch where I am standing concerning spiritual matters and if I see information which affects me to some degree, I’m going to want an explanation or clarification. I agree with virtually all you’ve written and I am also thinking much of what Robert wrote does apply to those who were looking for excuses to leave as well as those stumbled because they followed men. But…That’s what people do and have done to preach the good news. Considering Jehovah permits this operation of error to persist until the last days, I too have to reckon that provision is made for those who are no longer completely blind insomuch as we have been speaking with others or will, maybe, get the chance to later. I don’t know for certain but I am willing to do whatever may be asked of me in that day. After all the discussions, the searching, the questions, I know we are doing what we were told to do in making sure of all things. Once again thanks for your considerate reply and I always appreciate the depth and time you devote to this.

          • Burt Reynolds

            That is a very good point to make where you say ‘ Jehovah permits this operation of error to persist…provision is made…’ I overlooked that and indeed, it adds a balance and a perspective to this difficult question. I am beginning to think that as far as this question is concerned, there is more than one answer. (Don’t drink too much coffee on my account!).

            • The Raven

              Scripture does have evidence for people who have stepped up and Jehovah looked after them. These last days before the tribulation are already trying for many . The world sees the outward manifestations of evil and the devastation it can wreak but only a few see the divine beyond the superficial layers of politics, false religion and greed.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      For whoever is not against us is for us.

      They were others performing Miracles outside of the Apostles Collective group YET please take note that Jesus didn’t condemn or nullify them.
      Perhaps we The Outsiders who not by our own choice but have other circumstances beyond our control can be considered to be in their category provided we have faith regardless of our personal circumstances, I mean after all what truly matter to Jesus was the fact that they were for him and not against him.

      Mark 9:38-40
      John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.”+ 39 But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us.+

      Luke 9:49 -50.
      In response John said: “Instructor, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he is not following with us.”+ 50 But Jesus said to him: “Do not try to prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you.”

      Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/luke/9/#v42009049

      https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mark/9/#v41009038-v41009040

      • Burt Reynolds

        Thanks Kevin. That is a very strong scripture, reassuring too. It fills out a balanced thinking on the subject.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Yes that’s exactly right a balanced View .
          Proverbs 11:3-A The integrity of the upright is what guides them.

      • The Raven

        Thanks Kevin. I’ve given that idea some consideration lately.

  • Ken Rosenberg

    “spirit directed”

    “For Satan keeps transforming himself into an Angel of light.”

    https://ad1914.com/2015/06/12/recent-finds-how-spiritism-is-still-attached-to-the-1914-doctrine/

  • Jesus toast! come get your Jesus toast! peanuts, popcorn, hotdogs, Jesus toast…

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d5492ef9f9c080cf0a5a2d8b63a87e35deac40e1dc4df9c478ee1a00a71557f0.jpg

  • trudy

    The influence that the watchtower has over the flock is unbelievable power ,again I show the one nail watchtower image and the scripture of nails in hand and I said about the elder asking me about sex life and the secret elders book .He said its normal .This org has held on the Jehovahs name to use as bate and blind the minds of the unbelievers that the GOOD NEWS WILL NOT SHINE THOUGHT AND FREE THEM .I see it so clear .I can not stand talking to the seeping sheep they are clued to the watchtower just because it hold that name Jehovah ..I am seeing quite a lot of JW being df on recording last night and they elder hold the GB as god they don’t get out a any scriptures at all ..Who are the true Christ followers remember you will be hated on the account of my name ! who’s name Jesus ..They hated me so they will hate you ..I am hated by JW for showing scriptures they almost cant read them ..it is really true AMAZING

    • Burt Reynolds

      ‘I cannot stand talking to the sleeping sheep, they are glued to the watchtower because it holds that name Jehovah’. Trudy, you are missing the point. These are the very ones that need help. You, I, no one can abandon these precious sheep. It is they who will make the decision whether to serve Jehovah or not. It is not for us to decide for them, how their faith may transpire. The shepherd went after one sheep that was lost. If a person is stumbling because they cannot see, we help them and guide their footsteps for them. If they prefer to grope in the darkness, they will tell us. But unless someone shows them the way, how will they know. How will they be able to make a choice? it is not for us to judge the heart condition.

      • trudy

        They are rude and puffed up with pride and spiritual draining for me .These sheep are lost in there for get out side . They just not interested they say that I wont be saved …what a joke and I listen to apostates they say .How many are you talking to ?

        • The Raven

          So you think because they won’t listen to you they are lost? Really??? If I remember Robert had to correct you about demanding that witnesses should leave the watchtower, “get out of babylon my people!” You said.
          You yourself aren’t certain about the truth about the truth here yet you seem to think that their rejecting your “teachings” are some sort of standard by which you determine they are lost? To witnesses who you have been told remain blind and deaf for a reason? How interesting. If you think that your words are going to trump Christ’s maybe you need to rethink what you’re doing. Some people’s personalities have a way of putting others off and I’ve seen this same behavior among witnesses AND worldy ones. That doesn’t mean that they refuse to hear, now does it? It may mean they refuse to listen to YOU. Just as some have refused to listen to US. But never would I presume to say that they are lost because they would not listen to ME.
          You have gotten way ahead of Christ here in much of your reaction to them. It may not be the right person (you) may not be the right situation, may not even be the right time for many of them so you need to chill. Once again I would remind you that it is their leadership that bears much of this judgement and the sheep which have been strung along are suffering. Where does it say they will listen to YOUR voice? No more than they will listen to any of ours. Present humbly what you can to those who will listen. Those who will not…that’s NONE of our business.

          • trudy

            So how many have listen to you .I come here and mist of the massaging on here us taken up just by a few …So while this few has much time to talk in here what are they doing .I don’t think there are many on this site ..Plus the fact there were many who went down with the Golden calf and so the same
            again .Most born it are washed over with GB watchtower. If you heard what they said you would not pipe up and say anything. Any way why are you called creepy The Ravan .That should put a few speaking with you !
            These watchtower worshipers have said they do not question there faith .
            They have a good stock of pagan images of What the bible teach book contains so the devil can work off that and every bible new study can pray over that weekly .

            • The Raven

              Who are you to demand anyone here account for numbers? Can you even grasp the pain of those whose own flesh and blood refuse to see or speak to them? Do you have the ability to see the damned before christ? I and others here probably know a good bit more about this than you do but having that knowledge does NOT assure salvation! I stated facts and you resort to barbs. Is that how you have been speaking to people? If it is I can certainly expect them to be rude and stubborn. there’s a reason they remain blind and deaf but you choose to ignore that and persist in claiming they’re lost. Why?

            • sally

              Its actually worse than that. Talking to people about the real truth is a MASSIVE responsibility. By forcing people to “wake up” we are in real danger of stumbling them completely. Their blood would be on our own hands. That is why I choose to say nothing at this time. I am not a teacher, I am a student of real truth. I do not have the ability to relay information I am learning to anyone who is not already wide awake. I accept this and pray to Jehovah that I will be able to give back when the time is right with HIS HELP AND BLESSING. Also, by aggressively forcing people to accept what you are telling them is the first way of turning people away, for good. Even when they absolutely have to make a final decision. No. It is not for us to approach people and tell them anything at this time. Of that I am certain. We would do far more damage than good.

            • The Raven

              The ranks of rabid, angry ex JWs far outnumber any of those here who can see the real matters at hand. They have been stumbled by men and in their bitterness now stumble others. But… that still doesn’t mean they are unreachable by Christ. It’s just a shame that some folks are a lot more controlling than they realize and it’s apparent when they become angry because someone doesn’t see things their way. I’ve taught a lot of folks the truth but it didn’t happen overnight with many. In fact there are still a number who slowly noodle these things over and ask questions . I don’t push. Behaving like a bull in a China shop and then getting butthurt when the sheep bite back is not conducive to anything but trouble. I am constantly reminded that how I deal with them,… anyone for that matter is possibly how I will be dealt with. I certainly don’t want to see someone suffer needlessly.

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s interesting that all you guys in America have a ‘backside’ related epithet to all circumstances. Butt-Hurt. Butt-kicked. Butt-head. I shall now Butt-out and wait for the next Butt-crazy term! 😀

            • The Raven

              Heh! Just a few years ago I had to ask my niece what that term meant! Lol!

            • Burt Reynolds

              I think you are absolutely right in your opinion. When the Good Samaritan happened across the victim, the remark was brought out, ‘you are a Samaritan, helping him!? The Samaritan was there at the right time and at the right place in that man’s receptiveness to help. Jehovah and Jesus waited four thousand odd years to be there at the right time, when opposition was blatant, the circumstances clear, the choices clear, the prophesy known and waited on, the penalties enforced. (Can you imagine Christ waiting all that time knowing his fate, just for our benefit? That’s love! Also, just to illustrate, what if Christ waited until today to sacrifice his life? Can you just imagine Christ preaching in Margate! Someone would buy him a McDonald’s but that’s about all the interest he would invoke in people. They would lock him up, not kill him!). So timing is of the essence; when people are ready, when they are actively looking, when they are receptive and when, perhaps most of all, the difference is clear and thus their choices! Is this not what the bible indicates? So Sally, perhaps you should do what you do in good heart and in preparation, rather than in doubt, and maintain your joy in finding Jehovah through truth and the love, faith and assuredness that such must bring to you.

            • The Raven

              The thing to remember in all this is we are NOT above them. We need to be very careful we don’t become cocksure and arrogant and especially keep in mind that treating them like fools or mocking them will come back on us. Don’t forget the days are coming when all will be judged for how they treated Christ’s brothers and we do not know who all of them are. A lot of ex JWs have become worse than any who remain and they are doing a great deal of damage. They will be held to account for becoming outright enemies when Christ made clear how we should treat everyone. Burt has beautifully explained how we should follow Christ’s example in reaching folks who “may” come to understand but it’s not up to us to pass judgement on anyone. How many times did it take for those who believed the trinity and hellfire to see the truth? Who knows? How many tries will it take for witnesses to see what’s going on? Who knows but in this case we DO know Christ will open the ears of the deaf and eyes of the blind when He arrives. We are not the ones who separate the sheep from the goats. In fact WE will be sorted out regardless of what we think we know. So, if they refuse to listen to you that doesn’t mean they won’t accept the truth later from someone else or when Christ arrives. Scripture makes it very clear that we should never boast about certain matters lest we become self righteous hypocrites who take pleasure in ridiculing our brothers and sisters but do not see our own faults. A little knowledge in the wrong hands can be a dangerous thing. You are still learning about these matters and to an extent, we all are. At present they continue to do what Christ commanded and they preach the good news until Jehovah says otherwise. Robert has also made that clear. Consider these things and don’t lose sight of the fact that we are ALL sinners and no one knows it all. Do not become as stubborn and intractable as the people you are trying to reach. Fire against fire will leave you burned as well.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Trudy, How many am I talking to? None, and I will tell you my circumstances to clarify this for you, lest you think I am a complete hypocrite. But from the outset I would say, not in my defense, but in fact, that it is not a question of how many we speak to, per se, but what value we give to our brothers. ‘Love those who hate you.’ ‘If you do not have love, then you have nothing’, ‘forgive them, for they know not what they do’, ‘if he (Jehovah), notices when even a sparrow falls to earth, how much more will he value you?’, to paraphrase just a few scriptures, because I know not where they are in the bible.

          It is not for us to make a decision on whether a person is worth the talking to. Jesus did say though, that to those that do not listen, shake the dust from your sandals and move on, taking the ‘spirit’ with you. But in my understanding at least, this does not indicate that we should not go back, but is simply a term to proceed and seek out those who will listen, critically, at that time. We cannot be there at any other time, can we!

          Not everyone is able to listen and respond, but we don’t know why. Witnesses used to send out letters to bereaved people, gleaned from the obituaries….how is that for timing and expecting a hearing? Even if it were, what about considering the bereaved persons’ state of mental balance? No. There is a time and a place, and often, it is not in front of others at the hall ( in mind or spirit or physically) but cautiously and at the right time and place. Again and again and again, until Jehovah closes the door. Everyone is not open as you were, or as I was, or indeed everyone here, until the time was right. But when they were ready, crucially, some one was there for them and us.

          We gain nothing by bad-mouthing the witnesses. That is not our right, or our task. By listening, we have all been given our figurative ‘Talent’ of riches to invest in doing the work of the Lord. Some will invest it wisely, others will bury it and keep its value to themselves and not share their freely given wealth. Investment creates wealth for many; in this case, wealth in appreciation and love for Jehovah, Jesus and our brothers and sisters and the moreso, because they can use that love too in reaching others. But if we are simply going to keep that to ourselves, then though we ourselves have value, how much worth is that value if we did not increase it? Thus it is love, that may increase in value, for what we have been given, and love will move us to share that, and by doing so, love may be found in those who hate us, as was richly shown in the case of the apostle Paul, who sought to kill followers of Christ, but due to the insight of love shown him, at the right time, changed around. He was not ready for that at the time he first heard of the love of Jesus, was he? No. He was out to kill his followers.

          I said I would tell you my circumstances to explain my remark to you: I have lost 2 children, 3 wives, 2 homes, my then, work, and social standing, to death and divorce on and in behalf of the watchtower. I was vilified from the congregation, though the innocent party. I severely beat the interloper to my first marriage and got tarnished and shunned (unofficially) by a bigoted congregation and my siblings. I have moved and am not known in this congregation area. I have nothing to go back to and am married to an unbeliever, but am working on those circumstances cautiously. I preach to anyone who will listen and when the time (not of my own choosing) is right, will go to my now local congregation to do my witnessing hopefully to questioning people. But whether they listen or not, I have and will continue to knock on their door and of anyone I meet, until the end, if Jehovah gives me the faith to do so. However, it is not enough, I know that. But as I said, it is not a decision for us. We must keep going hoping to save others. Jesus did not give up: even when dying, he listened to the thief next to him. We all have our ‘cross’ to bear and mine is no greater or less than that of others….to each their own crisis. A pebble that will not stumble us, may be a huge mountain to another. We must not forget that. But we must never give up on our fellow searchers for the truth no matter how they treat us. Even in their wickedness, Jesus prayed for his murderers, ‘forgive them, for they know not what they do.’ Who was he praying for? Those who would not listen…because and perhaps, they could not see the truth then, but may do later…but in the interim, Jesus prayed that his father would forgive them, thus leaving the door open for their change of mind. That is the sort of love we should emulate and we should not look badly upon the seeming intransigence of others.

          • sally

            Wow Burt, that made me “gulp”. But your right, we are all different. Some people question everything, some people just follow and do not question. I suppose we questioned and therefore we got insight. All “awake” persons have their own unique story to tell of how this has happened. But we are not special, we are just first, hopefully many more will follow soon. However its a lot easier to get on our self righteous high horse and get angry at the errors that we now so clearly are seeing, than it is to be mortified and saddened by it and the blindness of those who do not see. I suppose its part of the refining process, you become aware and then its what you choose to do with that precious knowledge. Some become pure in their own eyes, some go off on some “jesus movement” tangent and reject the fact that the witnesses are indeed God’s people, and some just reject God altogether, basically throw the baby out with the bath water. It is not for us to force people to see what we see, we are in danger of stumbling people, we have to wait on Jehovah and his son and King, Jesus. We have to basically have faith, keep learning and practice patience, which is hard hard hard, especially as the wickedness of the man of lawlessness becomes more and more evident. We wait patiently so that God willing, when the time comes, we can both help our fellow brothers and sisters and prove ourselves faithful and true to Jehovah. Faith is everything. We do not know how this is all going to pan out in detail. But if we have faith then we know that it will be alright. Faith and love even in the face of adversity, injustice and wickedness.

            • Song of Hannah

              And some of us go off on a Jesus tangent and still believe JWs are God’s People. 🙂

      • The Raven

        Nice comment Burt! How we approach them makes all the difference. Some people slam them and inundate them with piles of information on the evils the wt is up to and let’s face it that doesn’t do squat for them but make them even more intractable. Of course they’re going to be rude if they are confronted by these matters. Most have no idea and just preach. That’s it. It is well advised as you stated that these sheep are precious and do not belong to us so we may show a little humility and kindness when they do as they were taught to do. Opening someone’s eyes gently and reassuringly has always worked a damn sight better than a hateful, judgmental attitude born of people’s own arrogance and shortsightedness. My opinion on the matter is this: if all you are capable of doing is pissing them off and tightening their lines then maybe it’s best you leave them alone before doing more harm than good. That’s how folks get stumbled by those who were themselves stumbled but refuse to admit it.

        • Max

          Very well valanced point you made Raven. We better all remember that the sheep belongs to the King and many many of them will form part of the desirable things of all the nations of Haggai 2:7. We better not make one of the desirable things trampled because not a hair of them belong to us. For to Jehovah belong the earth and everything in it ( 1 Corinthians 10:26) The King claimed ownership of them in John 10:16. We must treat the King’s property with the outmost care. After all He was the one who died for them.

          • The Raven

            That’s right Max. Jehovah gave those ones to Christ and we would do well to remember that. This also can be applied to those potentially of the great crowd of which we all hope to be part of. I’d be in fear of severe punishment for mistreating them. It can result in Jehovah abandoning us and Christ denying us for it. We sure don’t need to add any more trouble to the mess we’re already trying hard to navigate.

    • The Raven

      We are not the ones who determine what will happen to anyone inside or out. It is NOT yet time for them to leave and we cannot force anyone to make a decision. That is absolutely unacceptable. Getting angry because they are still blind and deaf is foolish and we have no right to assume they are lost or damned. When Christ returns HE will reward and punish accordingly. They won’t listen? Fine. Move on. Others may.

    • Isaac of Coimbatore

      Don’t go and break your head. The elders are like that!!!

      • trudy

        Australian Royal Commission.

  • trudy
    • sally

      That guy is now an athiest

      • trudy

        That’s is true and why, because he found out the lies the watchtower said ..Look at the video and how this was so ..He started to look at the lies and so ..He has exposed a large amount of lies .He was born in and most of his family are JWs .I am not surprised anyone is not a atheist after being in there .Jw have contacted him ref to what he can do to protect children as they have no voice as the watchtower have taken them away from doing there honest job of protecting the flock by going to the police and that is what they were DF for .

        • I deleted your link to that You Tube video. I don’t allow links to XJW blogs or their videos.

        • sally

          Whatever his reasons they are for him and the fact remains…..he is an athiest. He can “expose” what he likes, we know its corrupt, we know they are in error and we know what is going to happen because of the error. But he is making the biggest error of all.

          • The Raven

            Exactly, Sally!

        • Isaac of Coimbatore

          Turdy if you keep on looking that like that you are going into the rabbit hole. If you see like that there are many more injustice occurred.

          Take for example powerful governing body members Brothers Ewart Charles Chitty, Leo Greenless and Precy Chapman were themselves involved in child sex abuse, homosexuality and sodomy. That is why the Watchtower magazine dated Jan 1st 1986 page 13 acknowledged through a message: “Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting.” (w86 1/1 p.13). But were they punished or dis-fellowshipped like a common poor publisher or even a pioneer or an elder? That is to say was Ewart Chitty, Leo Greenlees, or Percy Chapman treated to the same measure of rigor and firmness in the “eradication of evil” among the People of God? No!! They have been living under the care of the Mother of the Organization and have never really suffered the consequences of their actions. The Executive Body effectively cared for their comfort, and their debauchery has so far been hidden behind an umbrella of silence.

          But You see Sister Anderson and our dear brother Robert king were dis-fellow shipped for not committing any serious but they were dis-fellowshipped for asking the justice. Did Robert King lost faith in Jehovah? No Jehovah poured the holy spirit on Robert and that is why we are here.

          Therefore look into the scriptures and try to dig out that is what I am doing. I started writing articles and many things and all will be published in baruq.uk. Why not do something similar. See a fellow in Madhukari congregation in Coimbatore started to take part in emblem since 2017 and all are behind him. Many are wondering he is really anointed one because he can sing 158 Kingdom songs by heart. That news came to me only this October. So I and my wife have planned to meet him. We like to invite him to our house and we are going to ask many spiritual questions.
          I am going to make a secret video session when we discuss with him.

          I called him over the phone to fix an appointment to discuss.
          He asked for what reason?
          I said Biblical. He asked why?
          I said I want to know from anointed like you. He said it is all there in jw.org and did not give the appointment. I think he is really afraid.

          Nobody is bold enough to speak to him after taking part in emblem, but his wife is dare enough to run away from him with another fellow.

          But I have many missiles in my arsenals to discuss with him.
          If I get a chance to make a video I will do that if he gives an appointment.

          Therefore trudy go do more service and tell people the truth leave those elders and governing body. I have found from my personal study that Governing Body = Ahab and I will give you once I complete my article or will be published in baruq.uk. Till then read this and keep it mind.

          Ahab represents: Person or a group of persons those who serve at the highest level in Christ’s congregation such as governing body, board of directors who have the authority to rule over Jehovah’s people but still tolerate and induce spiritual idolatry, such as equating organizations sayings as if Jehovah’s word and knowingly allowing the Jezebel influence such as false prophesy of 1914 or 1975, child abuse (= child sacrifice ) and free masonic sublime images and building the structures in the shape of free masonic images such as the eye of Horus used for Christian meetings (such as Silkeborg convention hall of Jehovah’s witnesses in Denmark) and affiliation with the organizations like OSCE are like that of Ahab.

      • trudy

        He has gone in there and he parked in a underground car park ..which means they have bunkers .He has given us a inside look ..Helpful

        • sally

          Just because they have an underground car park does not mean they have “bunkers”. I choose not to listen to that man because I choose not to listen to athiests.

      • The Raven

        Hi sally. So are some who were hand fed vitriol for everything concerning Jehovah by people who “thought” they were enlightening them. Smh…

  • trudy

    Why does the Warwick have to prove they are the truth by having a museum in Warwick or anywhere ?
    The bible shows what is the truth!!! ..Not a physical building but a spiritual invisible building of truth .

  • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

    So much for “PEACE” in the Middle East.

  • tortas

    Michael Savage says Trumps decision to move embassy to Jerusalem could trigger WW 3.

  • Bklyn Kevin

    Do I belong to Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization?
    Well yes and no – No in that I do not support their man made policies along with their erroneous prophecies and yes in that I support their fundamental bible-based truth as taught / put forth by Jesus.

  • Sharon

    i was listening to kev baker show with anthony patch today,and his guest was saying that these 501C3 church organizations,and he singled out Jehovahs Witnesses alone calling them brokers of spirituality,who last year alone had a 350.000.000 three hundred and fifty million dollar tax rightoff,in exchange for not speaking out on topics such as Politics,Abortion,Wars etc.very interesting

    • e.v.g

      Interestingly true christians will be persecuted for their political neutrality, although the watchtower boasts of not creating controversy of that issues, the watchtower will be forced to compromise the neutrality. The sons of the kingdom will have the authority as kings, so after all they will be engaged indirectly with the authorities of this world for a short while.

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