World War Three – What will it mean for you?

//World War Three – What will it mean for you?

Since the recent tomahawk bombing of a largely abandoned Syrian airbase and the saber-rattling over North Korea, the phrase “world war three” has been entered into Google search more frequently than at any other time, ever. Of course, the same googleers might also do a search for the best porno or make-up tips; but the point is, the threat of global war, no matter how real, doesn’t resonate with Jehovah’s Witnesses at all. In fact, the precarious state of the world is evidently, largely irrelevant, at least as far as the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses are concerned. That is ironic since for well over a century the Watchtower has been announcing the imminent end of the system.

What accounts for such obtuseness on the part of those who boast of being on the watch? That question is all the more pertinent considering what Jesus said when asked by his apostles what would be the sign signaling his return and the end of this evil age. Jesus responded with a two-fold warning. First, Christ forewarned his followers of a massive deception that would target them, saying: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them.”

Secondly, Jesus foretold of wars and disturbances that might give cause for terror, saying: “Furthermore, when you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified. For these things must take place first, but the end will not occur immediately.”

What are the wars and disturbances? How extensive might these events be? Jesus elaborated: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another food shortages and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs.” Wars and disturbances indeed!

Jesus’ words are undoubtedly meant to be understood at a particular point in time for the purpose of guiding his disciples through the deception and terror that will be prevalent then.  But from the standpoint of Jehovah’s Witnesses these terrifying sights are all in the past. 1914 was, of course, the beginning of the end, at least according to the Watchtower. And those who originally heard of the wars and disturbances that Jesus foretold have all passed away. Not a single soul remains of the Bible Students who were alive then to witness the Great War. 

So, that is why the present state of the world is unimportant to Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Watchtower has effectively rendered the prophetic sign Jesus provided into historical trivia. That is no insignificant “accomplishment.” 

But isn’t that exactly what Jesus warned against when he said many will come on the basis of his name with the message that “due time has approached?”

Certainly the Watchtower has come on the basis of his name, claiming to be the faithful and discreet slave of Christ and the sole channel of truth and many other things to impart to itself apostolic-like authority. And it is indisputable that from its inception the Watchtower has been the source of a consistent message that “the due time has approached.” In fact, the second volume of Pastor Russell’s Millennial Dawn series published in 1889 was entitled The Time is at Hand. Over the past 130 years since then millions upon millions of tracts, magazines and books have been produced by the same source, all heralding 1914 as the most important date in all human history.

Besides that, the Watchtower has convinced Jehovah’s Witnesses that another world war is not possible. (The fallacy of that reasoning has been the topic of several articles on this site over the years.) But here we are, with the world’s nuclear powers jostling and squaring off for a confrontation.  No wonder Jesus sternly warned us to be on guard against being misled by those who claim to speak for Jesus.

What will the virtually inevitable outbreak of world war mean for Jehovah’s Witnesses? First and foremost, it will force them to reconsider their faith. That is, after all, why God allows the deluding influence to operate in the first place.

Since it is highly doubtful that the Watchtower would ever admit to the falsity of their 1914 invisible parousia doctrine, Jehovah’s Witnesses will have to come to terms with the fact that the organization they believe is leading them in behalf of Jehovah is actually misleading them away from Christ. That will become apparent when the missiles really start flying. Indeed, we may expect the Watchtower to double down, as they say, and become the source of misleading proclamations that Christ is “here,” in the inner chambers, or “there,” in the wilderness, so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.

You may be sure that qualifying to enter into the new world is going to involve more than underlying the correct answer in a Watchtower publication. 

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2017-04-13T11:12:17+00:00 April 13th, 2017|Page One|269 Comments
  • Jamie Mac

    Please correct if I am wrong, but I always imagined MATT 24:6 to be a precursor to the Nation rising against Nation as it states ‘hear of wars and reports of wars’. That phrase reports of wars is interesting as it suggests to me that these reports will be shown by the all encompassing media we have at our disposal today.

    When the Nation rising against Nation starts we wont need any form of media to let us know as it will be obvious.

    • thats being fulfilled now to those “keeping on the watch”
      but for others, its like Robert said, trivia, so they will have a jolt of reality check

  • Dan 12:4, pay attention to e-Watchman people

  • Francis Bencharles

    This is a very timely essay. Timely indeed. Short but sweet!

  • Francis Bencharles

    Here is an iteresting point of view from the Ex British Ambassador to Syria on the recent and former gas attacks in Syria. It’s not what you would hear on the Major Media Outlets…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS6Oa_aDS6E

  • e.v.g

    I’ve heard in a talk recently that it is not necessary to be aware about politic issues and not talking about these matters with others, stupidly they reject the power of prophesy.

    • Jamie Mac

      e.v.g, funny you should mention that, I have just had a conversation with my sister and I mentioned how close we are to WWIII. Don’t be silly was the reply. Isn’t that the attitude of most people today.

    • Beverly kenyon

      Yeah, e.v.g, just like the ones in the picture above in this article….clueless!

      • e.v.g

        I don’t know who are making the information of the speechs, but it is really negligent.

        • Beverly kenyon

          It is negligent on their part, you’re right about that e.v.g.

  • Jamie Mac

    Here is an interesting story on RT. Things are never boring when trump is around.

    https://www.rt.com/usa/384633-trump-russia-lasting-peace/

  • https://youtu.be/cIaZwcs2gEI

    no its not nuclear but it does remind me of the historical accounts of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. it is my Beleaf that we are just that much closer to using a real limited nuclear bomb. things undoubtedly and most Certainly are heating up in the political world and we most definitely can expect that the powers that be will stop at nothing and carry out there political agenda no matter what the costs are.

    Daniel 11:27
    “As regards these two kings, their heart will be inclined to do what is bad, and they will sit at one table speaking lies to each other. But nothing will succeed, because the end is yet for the time appointed.

    the appointed times are at hand and yet the watchtower simply refuses to acknowledge the truth. what will they do when the realization and the fulfillment of there apostasy has come to pass.

    1 Samuel 3:13
    You must tell him that I am bringing a lasting judgment on his house for the error that he has known about, for his sons are cursing God, but he has not rebuked them.

    1 Peter 4:17
    For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?

    Acts 23:3
    Then Paul said to him: “God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall. Do you sit to judge me according to the Law and at the same time violate the Law by commanding me to be struck?”

    Luke 17:10
    Likewise, when you have done all the things assigned to you, say: ‘We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.’”

    Matthew 25:30
    And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.’

    • Francis Bencharles

      It’s called MOAB. I got a chuckle out of that.

      • they can call it whatever they like it all boils down to there blood thirsty quest for Resources and Global Dominance there action or strategy simply amount to nothing more then Hegemony or Survival: of the global elite.

  • Joel

    Does Jesus’ expression, “Nation against Nation, and Kingdom against Kingdom,” neccessarily mean that another WWIII is imminent? Couldn’t a limited Nuclear bomb be dropped, let’s say on North Korea, and that bomb not destroy the whole world? Couldn’t a “limited” Nuclear bomb just destroy a “region” and not effect the entire Planet? Maybe the Watchtower Society is correct; maybe there does not have to be WWIII in order for a Nuclear threat to escalate.

    Just thinking out loud. What do you think?

    • e.v.g

      Matt 24:22 I suppose the situation could be insourmontable that will be necessary the help from Jehovah, I’ m scared but it is Jehovah’s will. The devil is requiring to be tested the faith of the chosen ones.

      • Joel

        Is WWIII the only way to test the chosen ones? Ummm . . . I wonder

        • e.v.g

          Nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom says it all, the watchtower doesn’t have all the answers neither e watchman, but he is doing an effort to understand prophecies. Five brides will be fools and five brides will be wise, can you briefly describe why the five brides will be fools?

          • Bklyn Kevin

            The Wise and Foolish Virgins.
            Excerpt:
            Now, as regards the meaning of the story, the oil represents the knowledge and spirit we have. In the illustration of the two slaves assigned to feed the domestics “their food at the proper time” represents the same thing – knowledge and instructions. But what happens to that feeding program when the master unexpectedly arrives and finds that all is not as it should be? Although it is unsaid, likely there would be a disruption of the feeding program itself, or rather – a cessation of it altogether. Especially might that be expected when the negligent slave is put out of the kitchen! (Similarly, Paul indicated that the Evening meal – the memorial of Christ – will only be observed until he arrives, at which point it will cease.) Read more>

            https://e-watchman.com/wise-foolish-virgins/

            Read a lot more> Search results for: oil lamps.
            https://e-watchman.com/?s=oil+lamps

            • Daisy

              1 Cor 11: 26 was read in the hall during the Evening Meal talk. In the car on the way home, I asked my husband, why are we still commemorating the Memorial if Jesus came in 1914 (quoting Paul’s words)?
              Apparently, I’ve got it wrong, don’t I remember…, Jesus “came” in 1914…but “arrives” in the near future. . .To save us having yet another, argument I said, “yes, dear”.

            • Richard Long

              I’m feeling very blessed. My wife has always been favorable to the Truth, studied at length, but non been persuaded to pursue baptism. Lets just say that her “incongruity filtration mechanism” prevented it. Guess who just bought the kindle version of Jehovah Himself Has Become King? Sincerely hoping you are able to “reunite” with your post-delusion best friend soon!

            • Burt Reynolds

              I have the same problem. I bought this house last year but I’m still camping outside waiting for foolish virgins to open the door for me, but they are only scheduled to arrive after I have kicked the bucket because they were not born when I bought my first house and arrived there. It’s not so much whether I should go or should I stay, more, have I been or am I coming? Or should that be that I have arrived but I am still arriving? The organisation is quite right about this based on the principle of the whisky bottle. You have bought the bottle of whisky. Therefore it has arrived in your home. You drink half the contents of the bottle each day, therefore you are getting closer and closer to the ‘end’ of the contents each day. But can you ever ‘arrive’ at the end of the bottle and empty it? It’s a perfect mind game to keep people asleep because one is always drunk on expectation but do not realise the bottle is nearly empty. To them it’s always half full, plenty more to go!

            • what a dummy

            • Beverly kenyon

              Scary! And a mess!

            • e.v.g

              It is a test, the coming presence of christ is a test. Although those who will take side from the truth will have to endure persecution (Luke 12:8,9) I hope that those who boast about preaching too much and exalt themselves over others, have the same courage.

            • from what i understand, Jehovah really
              doesnt desire anyone to die. i hope he understamds the life of each person
              fully the way they lived before he
              judges them to death. i hope a couple i
              know who are dead can live again
              in a better world

            • e.v.g

              Sadly some brothers and sisters have a pharisaical attitude, even they can’t give you a handshake, they think they are very important in the organization, that’s the problem.

            • maybe they’re accustomed to bowing or a chest-bump. try shadowboxing and if that dont work; shadow water polo.
              sometimes just a hello works and is
              enough though.

              but yeah pharisaical attitude is there

        • Burt Reynolds

          World war three is not the issue I feel Joel, but the circumstances that it will generate, ergo, food shortages disease, brutality. The ‘complications’ of war if you like. The test is loyalty and love of Jehovah. It’s not how that comes about, but how you deal with it. And the circumstances have to affect the entire world. There will be many issues that will do that, but they will not be generated without a catalyst.

          • Daisy

            Bravo dear Burt! We need not be distracted by the noise from Satan’s world; nor be blind to the real meaning of world events, as Christ will soon accomplish his conquest of this ungodly society by waging the final war in righteousness… “How we deal with it” ………..indeed, my friend.

            • Joel

              Yes, I agree. Thank you Dear Sis!

            • Daisy

              How grateful we are that the unfolding of bible prophecy has been gifted via this site, so that we can prep our hearts in readiness of the imminent onslaught, unlike our comfortably numb brothers.
              We have a big responsibility ahead of us, do we not.

            • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

              Your words make sense

          • Joel

            Aha! Makes sense! Thanks Burt.

          • Francis Bencharles

            It will be a test of two of the most improtant qualities of faith, hope and love. Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.+1 Cor. 13:13 Not just of other true Christians but on all those that press us for help during this dreadful time.

        • Richard Long

          What WILL it take to make us turn on each other en masse? The extreme conditions of the USSR could not break the brothers. The situation will have to be as dire as we can imagine it, squared, to overcome the extraordinary love among the brothers worldwide.

          • Joel

            Umm, go on . . .

            • Richard Long

              uh, that’s all I got. I’m just saying that despite what is happening at 1 Kings Road, attending the Memorial at my local hall was, at the same time, both a solemn and joyous reminder of the true force that has brought about the worldwide Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses – namely Jehovah’s love for mankind and our love for Him and for each other. In my opinion, the strong pull many of us still feel toward the halls is the brotherhood. Not because we’re lonely, as I am content to stay ‘holed up” at home with my family, but because Jehovah’s spirit is still there, amplified through all the imperfect and sometimes difficult personalities and faces of all those gathered in Jesus’ name. WE are Jehovah’s Witnesses, NOT the leadership at Bethel. The Truth is US, to the extent that we are in union with Christ, who is “the way and the truth and the life”. The friends still deluded and captive, including the elders but absent willful wrongdoers, are also US and sorely in need of our love all the more as they, too, awaken from the dream state we were all in.

              But you know this, being a far more faithful brother than I, in my estimation. My point is that the love among the brothers, as failing as we all are, is no small thing. For it to be eroded to the point many of us are delivering others to destruction only to save our own skin would require conditions far worse than any of the singular machinations of the devil we have come to know. Worse than captivity and exile in Babylon. Worse than lions in Rome’s arenas. Worse than the horrors of Auschwitz. Worse than bans by totalitarian regimes. Maybe all these evils combined with every evil not yet imagined by the adversary with the collapse of the Watchtower and an extinction level event heaped on. If love is the greatest force in the universe, it being Jehovah;s dominant quality, what WILL be required for Satan to employ in vanquishing it?

              All the worlds ills and the decaying condition of mankind are condensed to a case study in the willful, ungrateful brat who wanted his Fathers possessions and failing to steal them, destroys them instead. The devil has determined he will own us or no one will, What tools does the adversary have at hand to accomplish this end? Global deluge… off the table. Asteroid impact…. possible, but hard to schedule on demand. Nuclear winter…. most likely candidate, with the “elites” of mankind just arrogant enough to think they can “bunker” through it’s aftermath and easily enough inspired to such recklessness. Is room “aboard the ark” for only 0.00625% (50 million) of the earths 8 billion or so inhabitants motive enough for some otherwise unimaginable backstabbing? You be the judge. Nevertheless, we are told that but for Jehovah’s intervention, “no flesh would be saved”. It is not an interpretation to read that as “the great tribulation will culminate in an extinction level event”.

              Regarding limited nuclear engagement. I am reminded that it would only take ONE relatively small nuclear detonation within the stratosphere of US airspace to produce an electromagnetic pulse assured of destroying the functionality of every non shielded electrical or electronic device on the continent. This would assuredly bring about the “other” Mutually Assured Destruction, the economic one. US relapses into the iron age, and as the economic engine of the entire planet, drags all civilization down with it. Not a relatively short 3 1/2 year time span and NOT an E.L.E., as the globalist elites have conspired, planned, prepared and labored for this exact end, their actual preferred outcome.

              And I DO go on, don’t I? Please forgive, but the ugliness of the world is my wheelhouse. May Jehovah bless and keep you close to his breast, Joel.

            • Joel

              Whew!!! That was a whopper! But I read every bit and enjoyed it. You are very passionate about the Truth—and the truth about the Truth. Good! Keep learning and growing. I am sure with the E-Watchman’s help (Brother King) you will continue to do so.

              I look forward to reading your next novel, er, sorry, I mean your next post! Lol!

              Thank you Richard.

            • Richard Long

              I deserved that! lol

            • Thinking

              Excellent post..I could do with you in my cong ?

          • Observing Quietly

            Hi Richard Long, hubby and I have had several very interesting discussions about this topic of what will make the brothers turn on each other en masse……The scripture that states this is Matt. 24:10 which in part reads : “Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.” We wonder if the current situation with the Child Abuse Policies would fall into this category? When innocent ones are injured and the one doing the injuring is not sorry and never apologizes and refuses to change policies or procedures, then it easily escalates to being stumbled and hatred can fill ones heart. Then added to that, is the taking of the brothers involved, the congregation Elders involved and the instructions of the Society being involved means hundreds of ones taking them to court before Judges and Governors (Kings). This is happening all over the world, several countries in Europe are investigating the Org as well as the Russians are investigating and the Charity Commission in the UK and the ARC in Australia, plus multitudes of lawsuits in the US…..Sure seems to be a prophecy being fulfilled right before our eyes.

            • Richard Long

              Hi Quietly, good point I’ll admit I’m ready to grab a pitchfork myself, but my work would begin in the legal dept and end in the accounting dept. with whoever could write compensation checks for the abused ones.

            • Richard Long

              Agree with you on the macro view of this, absorbing the rest. My initial focus was on the micro view. For all the “cold” congregations some have experienced, I have only known warm ones. I’ve just never been treated harshly by the elders or friends, and backbiters generally know to keep their distance from me. I don’t know why. So the concept of such personal betrayals is doesn’t resonate with me (yet?). But I’m plenty fired up about the Org driven policies. Our “religion” is rotting from the top down, not the bottom up, in my opinion.

        • Jamie Mac

          Hi Joel, Matt 24:24 might possibly justify your response 🙂

    • Peter

      Joel, the Watchtower Society is incorrect; Matthew 24:22 – Unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.”

      • Joel

        I guess your implication is that the only thing that can accomplish a “no flesh would be saved” scenario is a full scale Nuclear outburst; thus WWIII. Interesting . . .

        • e.v.g

          Joel I can’t understand your point of view, we don’t know how many nations will be involved in this situation, it doesn’t matter. Are you believing in the invisible paraousia?

          • Joel

            No, not exactly. It’s just that sometime we all—including me—come down on the Watchtower Society so hard on almost every subject, it just bothers me a little bit. That’s all.

            • Daisy

              You know what Joel? I love you very much so I’m saying this hoping you know how much I care…If it bothers you to come down on the WT then why do you bother and as for including all of us, why should you feel that’s any of your business as after all our individual spirituality for want of a better word is between us and our Maker.
              I’m opening a bottle of Chardonnay and wish I could share it with you my brother. Oops! I nearly said Cheers!

            • Joel

              Ha, ha, ha!!! Oh No!!! Please don’t say “cheers!” Lol! Very good Daisy!

              In all seriousness, however, you are right again. In truth, all of us have a right to voice our opinions on how we individually see and have been personally effected by the Watchtower Society—as do I.

              Thank you, once again, for helping me to readjust my thinking. You are very wise, as well as a treasure. Thank you dear Sis.

            • Mark 13:2 “Do you see all these great buildings?” …

            • Thinking

              I hear you Joel…and I understand your query is absolutely genuine and valid…at this time Jehovah is allowing the society to be used..and what Jehovah allows we need to respectfully acknowledge…he has not bought it to an end yet for a reason…perhaps because the restraint is still in place…thus he is using the GB to carry out the preaching work in all lands….and obviously he has backed them in this…it is absolutely amazimg what they have achieved…many are even getting the truth thru the truth they the Internet and the societies site…..one of those even visits this page…she is grateful to the society because they reached her with the truth..as I a, grateful as I was reached on the doors…We must be careful to remember even tho Saul was a bad King ….David still gave him due respect all tho voicing his concerns….BECAUSE..Jehovah allowed him to stay in that position for the length of time he did….

              We need to be careful we do not mock or ridicule those that Jehovah is allowing and using for his purpose ….after all we are not there judges…and we do not know if one or more of those who hold GB standing will not repent and prove to be a wheat stalk….
              After all who are we anyway…nobody’s….
              I’m not saying we cannot recognise their failures or their lack of understanding or blindness ….of course ..that is what has saved many of us…but we also need to be respectful ..they do have many things right .
              Indeed..not for them…where would we be…..so we must attempt to remain humble in our limited knowledge…for,im sure we too have things wrong at this time…thinking we have them right….soon we too may have to be humbled to a point…..who knows how things are really going to go down….so many fine details and points are yet to be revealed….
              So I’m just saying…I agree with your concerns…they are expressed out of care for us all as a group.
              Am doing yes before some ones brimgs up the point that Saul was annoited where as the GB not…..I know that…but he is ALLOWING them to remain in that position and he is clearly using them to accomplish his purpose….
              Your question was very very valid…and we would all do well to ponder on it.

            • Richard Long

              Thinking, I suppose it is natural for us, having been exposed as deluded idolaters, to be wrathful with our former idol, in equal measure to the shame we feel at being such willing fools . Your loving comments, as well as Joel’s, are most welcome reminders that the “evil slave” is still the possession of the Master, who will set matters aright upon returning home. Its one thing to say “you’ve abused me and I don’t like it”, quite another to call down evil upon it.

              Ephesians 4:25-32

              Robert sets an excellent example in this regard. May we all strive to achieve some measure of equilibrium, remembering things are taking place as Jehovah has foreseen, foretold,and arranged.

              Blessings to you, Thinking, and peace to us all!

            • Thinking

              Thanks Richard…we are all just struggling along ..learning and adapting as we go…Robert is such an encouragement to me as in going back to meetings as much as he can….he’s doing that..not for his sake…but for those others there who he can help in the near future…he knows he won’t ever be reinstated…but .no one is going to listen to any brother or sister who they view as having jumped ship and no longer even amongst them….but they will listen to one that is doing the hard work along with them…they will listen to one that is serving shoulder to shoulder with them…even if that one sat there in a disfellowshipped state…can you imagine how they will feel when that looked down on one is still there with them..supporting them to stay strong in their faith..when they will also be seeing elders and pioneers and so called strong ones falling away…I beleive Jehovah wants us all in place where he can use us..
              I find your posts very encouraging ….so blessings to you to Richard…

            • Joel

              Thank you so much for that validation.

              I know that the GB is wrong in prophetic speculation; as they have stumbled quite a few innocent ones who look to them. They are also terribly wrong on their policy on child abuse and pedophilia. But they are spot on when it comes to basic Bible truths and everyday Christian living and morality.

              Like you said, where would many of us be without the “truth”? I know where—problaby in some local church shouting “hallelujah” and thinking we are praising JESUS! How sad and how wrong!

              So I thank all the Brothers and sisters who labor hard at All the Bethel branch offices around the world.

              We learned the TRUTH about Jehovah and His purpose for the earth, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

              But we are now learning ‘the truth about the Truth’ from our very capable Brother Robert King. I believe, no, I KNOW that he is on target with much, if not ALL, of everything he gleans prophetically then shares it with us. I thank Jehovah we have him.

              So again, thank you, Thinking, for seeing the “deeper point” and understanding what I meant.

            • Thinking

              Your more than welcome brother…I knew what you were saying straight away..it’s how I think…I wouldn’t say Robert has it ALL right…hahah sorry Robert ..lol…but he’s spot on about a lot…if not most…but Jehovah is watching us concerning Robert as well…or our attitude of him…and I’m sure Robert would agree with this…Paul didn’t want any one following him or apollos or whoever…no human has it ALL right at this time….

            • Joel

              So true.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Joel, you are probably not alone in your pondering.

              Will you feel the same when the Man of Lawlessness gets revealed and the WT comes crashing down.

              Our main concern then will be for the innocent brothers and sisters not for a man made institute.

            • Huldah

              Hi Joel
              You seem like such a pleasant humble brother.
              I know this post is old, but I wanted to agree with Thinking on this matter.

              You have every right to take into consideration what the WT teaches and sort things out for yourself.

              In my estimation,it is arrogant for any of us to assume that we would have figured the truth out without the WT organization.
              It’s our “tutor leading to Christ” in a sense.

              Trust in the great wisdom that has its origins in true humility. You have true humility. Your questions have the right motivation.
              That’s all anyone needs to know.

        • Peter

          Hi Joel, Yes, Matthew 24:22, sounds like going to the brink of extinction. Unless…and on account of the chosen.

          • Joel

            It does sound like a ‘to the brink’ scenario, indeed.

            • LW

              Interestingly, the nuclear powers did a similar thing during the Cold War, through an act known as brinkmanship. Brinkmanship is a term coined during the Cold War to describe the tactic of seeming to approach the verge of war in order to persuade one’s opposition to retreat. In other words its almost like the act of posturing, but no direct action that ignites war itself. To be honest, it looks like that tactic is still in use today.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Ha! Thank you LW, I finally have a name for what I’ve always said about North Korea because from time to time when they feel they’re been ignored they do provocative acts for attention. That’s the impression I get from that regime. They take it to the brink ( throwing dummy out the pram ), and then back off! To think that the lives of people are in the hands of power driven muppets playing games, I really do despair of this world!

    • Richard Long

      Joel, the dual nuclear and economic Mutually Assured Destruction doctrines established by the globalists, ostensibly to PREVENT world war were, in fact, designed to trigger it at will. These people (read: the late David Rockefeller) have publicly expressed their belief that the ideal population for the Earth is 50 million. That’s sort of bad news for the other 7.99 billion of us. Were they not already planning the subjugation of mankind, perhaps Jehovah would not find them so readily useful for His own purposes. Once again, Jehovah takes Satan to school, turning the tables of his own game against him. In other words, for practical purposes, there is no such thing as a limited nuclear war.

    • Francis Bencharles

      Hi Joel:

      Be careful placing any trust in the Watchtower in understanding prophecy. Over the last recent years and actually more than a decade Robert has taken them through kindergarten and up through the higher grades on the meaning of prophecy, and yet they still don’t get it. They still insist that it is Christendom that has to worry, which they do but the primary part of Jehovah’s denunciation begins with his former house.

      • Joel

        I hear you Francis. Thank you for that fine cautionary advice. I will take it to heart.

    • LW

      Interesting. Jesus said “my kingdom does not come with striking observableness.”

    • Bklyn Kevin

      The Watchtower’s Deluding Influence.
      Excerpt:
      Consider a few facts which Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot accept. Around 1914 the population was approximately one billion. Approximately 17 million were slaughtered from 1914-1918. A few million more died from famines. And the estimates for those killed by the Spanish Flu run as high as 50 million —taking the combined death toll to roughly 70 million.

      The unsealing of the seven seals of the symbolic scroll of God’s judgments unleashes the horses of war, famine and pestilence, which are given authority over a fourth part of the earth. That certainly seems to indicate that a very large percentage of earth’s population will be impacted. But 70 million is nowhere near a fourth of one billion. It is 7%. And since 1914 the population of earth has exploded and now stands at 7.4 billion. How can there be a population explosion at the same time the world is stalked by the horsemen of Death? It literally does not add up.
      Read more> https://e-watchman.com/1914-deluding-influence/

    • Marc Tilley

      I’ve understood the Nation against Nation and the rest of the sign that Jesus described, as a description of the Great Tribulation rather than a prelude to it.

      You wouldn’t necessarily have to have another World War for the nuclear threat to escalate, but I think the conditions that Jesus describes is the Great Tribulation, and a Great War. It’s unreasonable to suppose that the world’s all time greatest tribulation wouldn’t include world war. Is my reading of it…

      • Joel

        I like your phrasing . . . it’s unreasonable to suppose that the world’s greatest Tribulation WOULD NOT include world war.” Well said, and a very intriguing thought.

        • Marc Tilley

          It’s also interesting to note, for me at least, that the Watchtower originally thought that the Great Tribulation started in 1914 and was ‘cut short’ in 1918. They were kind of thinking along the right lines in my opinion: Jesus begins ruling, Satan’s thrown down, and the sign of Jesus’ presence manifests itself by the onset of the Great Tribulation. World War and all that comes with it is the description of the sign, and the sign is a description of the Great Tribilation rather than them being two distinctively separate things.

          So they kind of had the right idea, it was just that 1914 was a false alarm. When the four horsemen of Revelation show up, surely we can expect a war like no other we’ve ever seen? If we haven’t seen the Great Tribulation then we haven’t seen the sign, as the sign IS the Great Tribulation: which leads me to believe that we will see a Third World War before we see the Great War of Armageddon.

          If I haven’t quite got that right, and someone can help me out further on the above, feel free to put me straight, but that is my understanding at present.

        • Burt Reynolds

          The scriptures do not give exactitude as to how the tribulation will unfold. It says wars and reports of wars, famine, pestilence etc. War seems inevitable, but you still have room to ask what type of war. In the equation of ‘always follow the money’ nuclear war is going to be somewhat harmful to the planetary infrastructure, so what better way to keep the means of making money, but reduce the population than chemical warfare? If you take it to its logical conclusion, looking at it from a ruination, death and intervention to save life scenario, then disease is far more likely to require intervention to stop it from annihilation of the human race because nuclear exchange will come to an end quite quickly given its results on the infrastructure. However, I don’t know and we should not be distracted by the means of destruction, but should use the warning, to prepare ourselves spiritually, and with resolution. The signs do not in themselves point to an earthly cause, such as a nuclear winter darkening the sun. The do show that there will be a miraculous recovery for the final government, and to recover, necessitates some form of working methodology in governmental administration. The point being, that events are highly unlikely to gratify our speculation. We are dust on the scales of a war between superpowers capable of creating the very laws that govern our lives, even the atoms that make up our bombs, and processes such as a Super Nova, that makes our bombs look like a damp match. Let it be. It does not matter how we die, but how we live and to whom we bend the knee. The title of the article is what will you do, rather than how will you die, or live.

          • Richard Long

            Your answer shows more insight than mine..Perhaps I was too focused on the phrase “all flesh”? I understood this to mean not just human life, but every animated life form. I will be pondering this some more.

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s not a question of insight Richard, or who knows what really. Robert explains a biblical topic that shows war is inevitable and the results of such point to nuclear war, given not only the signs, but the aftermath of such. But people are getting focused on nuclear and a total destruction. Yet Jehovah says he will bring to ruin, those ruining the earth. But it really does not matter. I simply don’t know either. My thought was simply sponsored by superficial thinking but the reality for us all is not the event, but the aftermath….as Robert says in his article, what will we do? We are getting more distraction on the site as time goes on, but the truth is simple. Loyalty, faith, love, hope, endurance, understanding. If you put it in familial terms, it is exactly what we want, expect and give to our own children. Robert surprised me the other day saying that chronology to him was of little importance ( I think! ) and when we stop to think about it, the ‘end’ will explain itself to us and we do not need to seek it out. It will be like an Australian road train drawing up at our front door, or finding an elephant in the bedroom. Sort of unmissable. Here we are wondering if we will be vaporised, covered in spots, or starved, when really all we need is faith that we will one day see Jehovah’s kingdom if we stay faithful through to the end, or the end of our lives, whenever and however, that may be. Also, not thinking about our possible demise will help us to keep focused on the quality of our service to Jehovah and each other rather than grow faint out of fear. I’m just as worried about my failure to remain faithful during these times as any one of us may be, but I am trying to get used to the idea of not valuing my life above all else, but my faithfulness to Jehovah, because the scripture says that those that seek to save their life will lose it, but those that lose it for his name’s sake will gain it. Therefore, the reasoning is, I am worthless as a ‘body’ but to Jehovah, valuable in my spirit if I have love and faith in him and for him, and thus proven (hopefully) that the day of my death, is and will be more important than the day of my birth because of the faith I hold, rather than what I am afraid of.

            • Richard Long

              So well said as to preclude any further comment on my part. I regret having the ability to upvote it only once!

          • Richard Long

            Something that hit my mailbox today and reminded me of this discussion. You are so right to say it will not be war OR famine OR pestilence, but likely ALL OF THE ABOVE!

            http://clinks.mp2203.com/a/1042/preview/828/30030/eb3f34ff653c87135c784281cbde5f2b5dabf9eb?message_id=IjUwMzZhOGQwLTE2MWMtMDEzNS00NzI0LTE0MDJlYzgzYjg3MEBtcDIyMDEuY29tIg==

  • Simpletruth

    Short, sweet, and to the point. Awesome. BTW…I love your sarcasm

  • Burt Reynolds

    The bible describes wars, reports of wars, famine, earthquake, not being able to buy or sell. To keep on the watch therefore…. Just to offer an insight into what is happening in the world and the huge concern shown by news agencies, especially the British Broadcasting Corporation, I feel you should all be aware of the massive increase in tensions that have arisen here overnight. It was reported that the Kremlin, under direct order of Putin, have ordered a massive retaliation against Europe which is going to trigger an all out horror unseen in our day or before. The Russians are not going to televise the European Song Contest so the BBC tell us in their lead headline. I knew we were all going to be tested, but not beyond what we could endure surely? But it seems to be the case. ‘… but know this, that in the last days, critical times hard to deal with will be upon us, for the TV shows will be cancelled, and Ye will not know what to do, and will immediately turn to the Internet, but it shall not be found, and our phones will not work. People will turn one to another and be forced to speak to one another and play monopoly and pay attention to children and the elderly, for the Eurovision Song Contest shall be banished by a country that is not King of the North.’ (Book of Burt. Ch. 2.V 4). I understand Fox News is next…

    • Jamie Mac

      Burt, very good. The last time I watched the Euro Song Contest, it certainly did feel like I was being tested. The quality of most of the songs was an endurance test when listening to most of them.

      • Beverly kenyon

        Don’t Jamie! My ears are bleeding! That song was horrific then and it’s more than horrific now! Eeeek!

        • Jamie Mac

          Well it’s certainly on a par with the Teaberry Shuffle which Francis first mentioned and then Joseph treated us all to a little clip he found from somewhere. 🙂

    • Joel

      FOX News should be the FIRST to be taken out! Lol!

      • Beverly kenyon

        That’s so funny! ?

      • Richard Long

        EVERY major media concern, and for that matter EVERY major corporation in the world are hand-fed globalist propaganda and “this weeks understanding of events and accompanying talking points” through membership in either the Council on Foreign Relations, Chatham House, or both, making suspect every thing published On the rare occasion they are not lying, they are using true statements to distract us from some other nefarious activity, as an illusionist uses his right hand to draw our attention away from his left hand.

        http://www.cfr.org/about/corporate/roster.html

        https://www.chathamhouse.org/become-member/corporate-membership/corporate-list

        http://news.muckety.com/2013/01/11/media-and-cfr-holding-hands/40151

        If your objection to FOX News in particular is precipitated by its specialization in the cheerful, relentless, unqualified support for poorly trained and morally suspect rogue killer cops and neighborhood watch volunteers by its presenters and opinion makers, and otherwise all-encompassing denial of institutional racism, I will walk that road with you as long as you care to have me.

  • Joseph of Aramathea
    • Jamie Mac

      Hi Joseph, are you referring to the doomsday clock. I had a conversation with D.A about this a short while ago. If you look at his avatar it looks like it says 3 mins to midnight. It currently is set to 2 and a half mins to midnight. I think they meet twice a year to discuss this.

    • Joseph of Aramathea
  • Beverly kenyon

    You’ve got be living in ‘la la land’ and deluded to think that there’s not going to be a WW3. The war drums are sounding louder and louder each day and you’ve got America showcasing their hardware….yeah, Russia and North Korea, Iran, you still wanna mess us….and you’ve got some clown the other day on Fox News saying how beautiful America’s weaponry is, everything is gearing up to carnage and horror for mankind. Scripture say no flesh would be saved, so that’s implying all of mankind as we’re all flesh so therefore it will be worldwide, all flesh will be affected and for the WT to say different is to mislead. But when you’re living in a luxury bubble and revered, course you’re gonna say there’s not going to be a horrific catastrophe unleashed on mankind!

    • Richard Long

      One mind control concept at play here is called “Normalcy Bias”. We all susceptible to it and the WT lawyers are banking on it. Literally.

      • Beverly kenyon

        Just looked up that term Richard and it sums up the attitude of most people…same old, same old! You do know I will now be adding that term to my limited vocabulary so thank you kindly for that as I’m all about learning…as Basa says, knowledge is better than ignorance, or something like that….Basa has got to be one of the most knowledgeable and true witness you can find and I hope him and his family are okay as he was worried about moving congregation.

    • KB

      In a Sunday’s talk a few months ago,the brother said, the world has only had 23 days of peace since 1914. I’m not sure if that information is correct but that’s what was said. That’s how they know Satan was cast out of heaven in 1914. Even though many places have been in peace, the world as a whole has not. Just as in 1914 the JWs believed the end was close due to current events, we to believe the time is near due to current events. It’s very possible that these upcoming events could lead to ww3, it’s also possible that it won’t be nuclear. After ww3, a peaceful time could again come into place. We just don’t know “when” the end will come. What if there is a ww4 or ww5? I never thought I would be living in 2017 in this old system. That’s what I’ve been told my entire life of close to 50 years. So, even though it seems we are on the brink of a major war, is this the big one? We don’t know, we can speculate. Jehovah will cast Satan down when he is good and ready. We will see the signs of his demonic presents I’m sure, but is ww3 the sign? I’m not so sure. Nothing surprises me anymore.

      • This may help put things in perspective. According to the 8th chapter of Daniel the fierce looking king “will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin.” That is an immediate prelude to his being broken by the Prince of peace. So, instead of constant war, we really are in “a time of security.” The present illusion of security is what will be shattered.

        • whats going in with the king of the north here? –

          11 I kept on beholding at that time because of the sound of the grandiose words that the horn was speaking; I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire.12 But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season.

          • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

            Can you throw me more light on how the king of the north comes to his end before the other kings? Is not actually the KON who will actually rule parallel with Christ’s ruling for a short period of time?

        • Joel

          One question, please, Brother King: If the world is presently in this “time of security,” then who or what is being brought to “ruin”?

        • Bklyn Kevin

          More food for thought.
          Excerpt: from Hannah’s comments.

          https://e-watchman.com/topic/the-book-of-job-prophetic-of-christs-brothers-during-their-humiliation/

          The cry of Peace & Security: By who?

          Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves (1Th 5:1-4). According to Josephus, Cestius Gallus (7-67) was legate of Syria from 63 CE (but in Judea from 65 CE). He marched into Judea with a force of over 30,000 men in September 66 CE in an attempt to restore order at the outset of the Great Jewish Revolt but unexpectedly he was defeated by a small Jewish army191.
          [The present illusion of security is what will be shattered as Robert said.]

          The Jews of Jerusalem believed they had been miraculously protected and thus they shouted “Peace and security”, in contrast, the Jewish Christians fled to Pella a town of Perea, according to Eusebius (History of the Church 3:5:3). As Jesus had prophesied (Lk 19:43-44; 21:20-24), they waited until the Roman armies destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem and without pity killed its inhabitants (in August 70 CE).

          • Beverly kenyon

            Do we picture them in Jerusalem when they were shouting Peace and Security after they’d been brutalised in the Jewish Revolt? After we’ve been brutalised by the fierce looking King will the call of Peace and Security be sounded then the instant destruction will happen to them? I’m most probably wrong there Bklyn Kevin but that’s how I’m picturing it.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              All I know is when they are saying / have this false sense of peace and security the end will come upon them according to the scriptures, when where and how I don’t know, In fact nobody knows according to Jesus.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Search results for: Peace and security. Read a lot more>
              https://e-watchman.com/?s=Peace+and+security

            • Beverly kenyon

              Thanks for that link Bklyn Kevin will check that out later, just need to get a sense of it in my mind. Really appreciate your help.

          • Jamie Mac

            Hi Kevin, I have often wondered if there was there a Proclamation of ‘Peace and Security’ before the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem. Is that term ‘Peace and Security’ actually used in secular historical records related to these events?

            Better watch out though , D.A told me off for using the expression ‘cry’ when associating it with ‘Peace and Security’. D.A are you reading this 🙂 🙂

          • Huldah

            Hi Kevin,

            I’m just throwing this out there. This seems like a good place to reply.

            Jerusalem of 70CE=Modern Org of Jehovah’s Witnesses

            Roman Armies= 8th King

            Leaders of Jerusalem who say “peace and security”=
            Leaders of Modern Org of JWs that convince all witnesses that no test is coming, that they are already in a spiritual paradise, that Jehovah would never allow anyone to destroy his modern day visible organization

            Destruction of ancient temple= destruction of Bethel/Jehs organization during judgement on HOG
            Ones who are called to stay awake=ONLY Jehs true people

            Ones warned about thief=ONLY God’s true people

            Ones prone to sleep at times needed to stay awake= ONLY God’s true people

            1Thess. 5

            Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s* day+ is coming exactly as a thief in the night.+ 3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them,+ just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day.+ We belong neither to night nor to darkness.+

            6 So, then, let us not sleep on as the rest do,+ but let us stay awake+ and keep our senses.+

            I just can’t shake the sense that we don’t need to be looking at the world for a “cry” of peace and security. I think we need to look no further tgan Jehs organization to find it already being shouted from the rooftops loud and clear. The fact that Jehovah’s leaders are convincing the sheep to be complacent is a far more deadly matter than any worldly leader convincing the already mindless masses of the world that there is going to be more of the same as that “normalcy bias” already exists.

            I’m ceratainly up for discussion on this.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Whenever they say “peace and security” – Then what?
              Excerpt:
              That mortal wound is in all probability the fulfillment of what Paul foretold regarding “sudden destruction.” And it is likely that the “they” who will be saying “peace and security” are the politicians associated with the Anglo-American beast.

              Although the beast is destined to momentarily recover from the death blow, “they will by no means escape” Jehovah’s adverse judgment. That is because everyone who rejoices over the short-lived resuscitation of the head of the beast or who hails the image of the beast as their savior will have their names blotted out of the book of life. And the beast itself will shortly thereafter be hurled into the lake of fire. Read more>
              https://e-watchman.com/whenever-they-say-peace-and-security-then-what/

              Read a lot more> Search results for:
              peacehttps://e-watchman.com/?s=peace

            • Brian

              Hi Kevin, how is it that everyone here seems to think that the cry of Peace and Security somehow initiates the tribulation which is hardly “Instant destruction will be upon them”, as this is referring to “Jehovah’s day” I can’t believe it is associated with the tribulation that is actually brought about by the hand of man.
              It is more fitting that it is a cry of peace and security after the great tribulation actually finishes and mankind thinks that they have conquered war with their bogus Kingdom in the time when all of their authority to act upon the earth has been taken away, is not Jehovah’s day the day of the end of all those that have not repented and asked for forgiveness, Armageddon? Even the JW’s in their so called “delusion” with having the cart before the horse recognise it as being the final act.

            • Burt Reynolds

              You guys are just so good at puns. I take it you mean the JW witnessing cart that is before the horse!
              I thought the scripture said that when they are saying peace and security , then destruction shall be instantly upon them. I presumed that the day of Jehovah was integral with all these features as is not the day of Jehovah the (inclusive) day of restoration encapsulating all these things? I don’t know myself for sure but Kevin will. I need one of those ‘scripture for dummies’ books. Does anyone other than the watchtower make them and that can be relied on?!

            • Brian

              Can’t help with the “scriptures for dummies” Burt, I am sure you don’t need it anyway! The cart before the horse is really that they have the story but have “called the game early” and as consequences have it “A” up!

            • The Raven

              At the risk of appearing to be a dummy, isn’t the downfall of BTG the first part of the tribulation? And several more events occur before the declaration of peace and security is made? Could it be that a false proclamation made by acting world powers presages sudden destruction due to thermonuclear war and people will be fooled into thinking it was the final one, only to be faced with the ACTUAL one later on down the line? I wouldn’t put it past the devil to do this.
              Just wondering and asking for some thoughts on this. Very good questions, BTW,Brian.

            • Richard Long

              Just to bring you up to speed… Brian is the chief proponent among us of the thinking that the false parousia delusion, even after one has been “red pilled”, leaves a residual that does not automatically evaporate on every other “understanding” one may have, especially those one might have received and accepted from the WT. He has pointed out many instances where some of us (well, me, actually) have dutifully held onto belief’s that obviously cannot stand, if the parousia is not underway as the WT maintains. Sometimes this brings him into conflict with others here in the arena of ideas, occasionally Robert and by extension those of us still holding onto Robert’s lifeline as we regain our equilibrium and learn to walk again free of our WT wheelchair.

            • The Raven

              Ah. OK. I got no issue with a different view. But…let’s see where reasoning brings us.

              And before I get a wall of scroll on that matter from others, I offer the usual disclaimers that in all things the scripture must be consulted and the ultimate Authority is God’s word. Just so everyone knows. The rest is…lets say, informed speculation.

              Residual??? lol!

            • Richard Long

              For what its worth I believe Brian is an honest broker, albeit an admittedly speculative one, not one trying to snare a rabbit as Francis is. Which is probably why he remains and Francis does not. I freely admit that I have about a half dozen “position papers” half written and set aside as I’ve realized Brian is right about the sticky smudges of delusion that still inform my thinking on a great many “understandings” of scripture for me personally. So I am thankful for Brian’s participation in the outworking of myself becoming a better thinker and less of a doctrinaire.

              I sincerely hope you will stick around awhile.

            • The Raven

              Proverbs 27

              17 As iron sharpens iron,
              So one man sharpens his friend.*+

              I think I will.

            • Brian

              Hi, I can’t find anything scripturally that would indicate that Babylon the Greats demise (whatever that actually is) is a precursor or the trigger for the great tribulation. If there were a thermonuclear war and there probably will be this would not constitute an instant destruction to be upon “them”, those that are prepared to say such blasphemous sayings that only the true kingdom of God can deliver would still be dwelling on the earth and would still be promoting their Satan induced false Kingdom. First of all the beast must appear (unless someone can actually show me how it is hear already as it is the vision of the “Lords” day) and then whatever BTG is, is straddling the entire earth sitting upon this “thing” that has the whole world worshipping it (so it has to be still here at the time of the disgusting thing standing in the holy place) for it to be riding on the beast.
              I have made mention here that I am not so sure that BTG is in itself false religion in its entirety, it seems to be much bigger than just that and Babylon means to the world much more than just false religion, it is the birthplace of cities and the whole systems that have been on the earth, it was the place of “them being able to achieve anything” and it is sure looking like the world has now got to that point once again.

              “and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.” and the travelling merchants of the earth became rich due to the power of her shameless luxury.”
              These snippets from Revelation 18 would indicate that the system derived from Babylon/Babel is what has slaughtered and made rich the people of the earth, yes religion has played a part in it but man and this wretched system seems to be the real culprit.
              I hope that wasn’t too overwhelming !? : )

            • The Raven

              If I understand you correctly, you do not know for certain who BTG is? OK.
              Let me clarify what I asked. Is is possible that given we are in a time of “relative peace” and we now begin to see the alignment of geopolitical factions and a belligerence I have not even seen during the cold war that world leaders will bring us to the brink, step back from the precipice and THEN proclaim peace and security through THEIR OWN efforts? In other words, THAT instance will be mistaken for the one to occur later, AFTER the eighth king has appeared?
              If false prophets can make a bunch of BS claims then how much more so can TPTB?
              Do you think it may be possible since they conflate WWIII with Armageddon anyway?
              And King also speculated that the GB might do this:

              “That will become apparent when the missiles really start flying. Indeed,
              we may expect the Watchtower to double down, as they say, and become
              the source of misleading proclamations that Christ is “here,” in the
              inner chambers, or “there,” in the wilderness, so as to mislead, if
              possible, even the chosen ones. ”
              https://e-watchman.com/world-war-three-will-mean-jehovahs-witnesses/

            • Richard Long

              Alternatively, recently Huldah postulated that the cry of “peace and security” may come from the WT itself, much in the way the original application of the prophecy dealt with typical Israel during the interim between Roman sieges on Jerusalem. Interesting point but read her comment for yourself..

              On the other hand, you will likely never get Brian to agree that the WT is anti-typical Israel at all, and he can defend that himself.

            • The Raven

              I can now see that and Kevin’s comment on Hannah. That’s intriguing as he also mentions Robert’s comment on the present illusion of security that will be shattered.

            • Richard Long

              More “up to speeding”. Kevin serves informally as the site archivist/librarian, directing ones to what Robert has previously written on various subjects. Absolutely invaluable when ones heart is more involved than their minds in a discussion here, as often happens to me.

            • Brian

              Hi, the trouble is, is that the watchtower has already made the statements that he is here and because he is (in their minds) in the Kingdom already that would effectively mean that he is the temple acting as the high priest of God and by being so “in the inner chamber/s”, they may double down in the future but it would be pointless as they have already misled many people over the last 140 or so years. I have even given thought to the possibility that because they were looking for the kingdom to arrive in 1914 that Satan obliged them by getting WW1 going, it might be a stretch but it does make for more confusion and delusion and you couldn’t/wouldn’t put it past Satan to just that, “he would mislead if possible even the chosen ones”).
              Raven, I am of the opinion that what we see on the earth today is only a precursor to the beast actually coming into being, i.e. 7th head is still to arrive along with the 10 horns/kings to placed to create the composite beast, the representation of the sum of all of mankind’s failed government systems and it is fitting for it to be arriving at the end of this world, we must remember that it is in John visions of the Lords day that it appears and nowhere else does it appear to appear before, yes there must be systems in place for it to come about but as yet I don’t believe it has, it placing itself in the holy place (or “standing where it ought not be” In place of the Kingdom) is a part of the composite signs of the Kingdom is or is about to arrive according to Matthew and Marks account. I know Roberts writings here are well received by most here as this is why they come here but I cannot accept everything on face value and check and recheck and these are the conclusions that I have come to after rechecking again, this after progressively wiping all that I had learned from the JW’s in regards to the Kingdom coming or has come.
              Rave, we have been in a time of relative peace since the end of the second world war but as these regional conflicts really start to get going ” there will be wars and reports of wars” is hardly a fitting time to be pronouncing “peace and security”, 1986 was the UN “year of peace and security”, they have been banging on about this for decades and still no Wallah, these regional wars that are taking place now and have been ramping up under the “war on Terror” will possibly morph into WW3 and then there is no chance of any fool to arise and claim “peace and security”, now after the tribulation this is a very different story, the tribulation will be the most profoundly destructive war that mankind has ever waged on himself this will be inflicted by man with no doubt by some help from Satan. Matthew 24:21 “for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short”.
              After this has ceased it will be a prime time to announce “peace and security”. One could look at the flood as being a much worse tribulation but that was inflicted by Jehovah, Armageddon is also inflicted by Jehovah but there will be no tribulation as they make their stand against Jehovah and they will be destroyed/whatever in an instant (instant, sudden destruction will be upon them).

            • The Raven

              Just for your information on where I am right now, I do not believe the eighth king is here. The seventh head seems to be the anglo/american but have not actually gone about their parts yet either, but are about to. So far that’s what I gather. I’m NOT basing this on what WTO says.

              I also understand the need to re-examine just about everything after the BS they’ve been foisting on JWs for decades now, but I sort out what’s correct and toss the rest. If I happen to agree with one or a few views that they have it doesn’t necessarily follow that I accept all of it.

              If you wish, we could leave them completely out of the discussion concerning prophecy and stick to just what’s known so far from scripture and our timeline. And frankly, that’s pretty limited. It’s about the only thing I am confident in. The rest is conjecture.

              Fair enough? BTW, thanks for that reply. 🙂

            • Brian

              Raven, it could be as you say, I’m just putting ‘it” out there. JW’s may conflate as you say Armageddon with WW3, then again what haven’t they conflated in the past!?
              I was also a firm believer in that Babylon the great was just false religion although i was always unsure and a little sceptical some of the elements that the Angel was referring to in describing those of the world that were/are attached to it like those 2 passages that I had quoted, not every person that has ever been killed was killed by religion or a religious act, motor car “accidents are not a religious act but they are a product of the system and they are a product that has made many people rich, now apply that scenario to everything that comes from this system of EVERYTHING!
              It is in fact worshipped like a religion, the “free market” as a part of it controls the world of commerce finance you name it.
              Wouldn’t it be fitting for Jehovah to put it into the hearts of those that worship it to kill it….perfect! Get of her my people would then conjure up and entirely different situation for all concerned!
              I am not trying to water down the false religious element of it as it is also deserving of that same treatment. I think people should be a little inquisitive as to what was going on on the earth before Babel was created as it is Babel that is responsible for the structure of the world in every way shape and form of what we live in today.

            • The Raven

              I see what your saying and I think it worth exploring. There may be a deeper meaning to it. Thanks for your thoughts on this. I wish I could hang out longer but It’s late here. I’ll have to get up early. Tomorrow, man. 🙂

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Search results for: Babylon the great.
              Read a lot more>
              https://e-watchman.com/?s=Babylon+the+great

            • The Raven

              Thanks, Kevin. I had a terrible time yesterday with this site. Nothing seemed to be loading correctly. I wish I had seen the replies BEFORE I commented. But ah well…I OWN my words now. LOL!
              I’ll read that when I get home from work.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              After the Tribulation in Those Days.
              Excerpt:
              In his prophecy of the conclusion Jesus said the tribulation would be followed by the sun becoming dark and the moon not giving its light and men becoming faint with fear. That same symbolism is employed in the 6th chapter of Revelation with the opening of the sixth seal. It is apparent that the crashing of mountains and falling stars is meant to symbolize the collapse of the political and economic system. That is why the terrified citizenry are depicted as hiding in caves and holes in the earth, begging the mountains to “fall over us” to protect them from Jehovah’s wrath. In view the fact that Jesus said the tribulation would be cut short on account of the chosen ones, otherwise no flesh would be saved, indicates that the tribulation is an existential crisis for all humanity, not merely the destruction of false religion.

              What does it mean that the tribulation is cut short?

              That the tribulation does not immediately lead into Armageddon is evident from the fact that Jesus referred to events occurring “immediately after the tribulation in those days.” Its being cut short means that the nations will be allowed to recover momentarily. That is what is symbolized by the beast crawling out of the abyss, by the mortally wounded head that miraculously revives. In the aftermath of the tribulation Revelation depicts the angels holding back the four winds of destruction. Why? In order that the sealing of the chosen ones may be finished. Jesus indicated as much when he said after the tribulation the great trumpet will sound and the chosen ones will be gathered. Read more>
              https://e-watchman.com/after-the-tribulation-in-those-days/

            • Brian

              Hi Kevin, I am not suggesting that the tribulation leads directly into Armageddon, in fact the quite the opposite. For Babylon The Great to be destroyed first we must have the beast in place complete with all heads and horns for the “harlot’ to be riding on it, then it is the 10 horns/kings that have it put into their hearts to kill Babylon The Great as God has intended, it would appear that the “beast” is given power and authority to act is a sign of the Kingdom is coming or at least Jesus is “at the door” and this is a part of the start of the Great tribulation, this at the same time as Satan is hurled out because he gives it the power to conduct itself in the manner described. I can’t see how Babylon the greats destruction is a part of the tribulation.
              As far as False religion be attacked is purely a Watchtower take on Babylon, as we are not in the Lords day the first seal has not been opened which would be Jesus coming to “inspect” all of those that profess to follow him in truth and this would include elements of congregations that make up this “false religion” that the watchtower has been banging on about for nigh on a century, I would hardly think that Jehovah would unleash the kings on the congregations before Jesus inspected them, this whole thing about Christendom being false is a misnomer presented by the Watchtower, they are the ones once again being presumptuous in announcing the judgement upon them well before Jesus even turns up to inspect them, I’ve got to wonder what he thinks about his position being usurped by them on more than one occasion! Yes I understand and have already realised about the holding back of the winds of destruction, not man’s destruction but what is coming from Jehovah in the sealing of his sons. The tribulation is what will sort them out, sort them out of ALL Christian congregations. Even if there is an “earthly” administration at the full limit of the appointed times it is not until Jesus arrives that he appoints them over his belongings and at NO time before he arrives, i.e. the “faithful and DISCRETE slave”.
              Kevin, this still didn’t answer why everyone thinks the cry of “peace and security” will be the precursor to the Great tribulation.
              Have a good day, evening here!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Brian said “Kevin, this still didn’t answer why everyone thinks the cry of “peace and security” will be the precursor to the Great tribulation.
              Well if one truly believes all scriptures is inspired as the Apostle Paul exclaimed in 2 Timothy 3:16
              Then surely you have to believe it is a precursor to the tribulations because Paul was inspired and said so.

              Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.

              Please take note that in verse 4 – 5 the Apostle Paul’s letter is addressed to the brothers / sons of light / Jehovah’s people.
              So it’s just not possible that the “THEM” that the apostle Paul is referring to is the brothers /Jehovah’s people..
              So who else could it be other than the politicians associated with the Anglo-American beast ?.
              Now as for “WHEN” sudden destruction is to be instantly on “THEM,”
              please take note of what Paul said in verse 3 “just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, now surely we know the birth pains on a pregnant woman occurs when she’s ready to give birth so obviously the Apostle Paul is speaking about the beginning of birth and Is associating it with the sudden destruction and also please take note that the Apostle Paul in his letter is not associating the birth pains with the literal Armageddon but is associating it with the birth pains – meaning the beginning.

              3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!”
              then sudden destruction is to be instantly on “them,”
              just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.
              4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves,
              5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.
              Thessalonians 5:3-5.

            • The Raven

              Thank you for that. It answers my question as well.

            • Huldah

              If you read this whole thread, you see alot of ones posting words to the effect that the prevailing mentality today is one of peace and security.

              If we are going to question the WT why not pull it up by its roots and remove all this looking for some sort of specific “cry” of PS?

              You are here⬇. The stubborn mentality of nothing bad is ever going to happen has never been so entrenched in the world and the cong. The “cry” of PS has already happened and is ongoing.Humanity is completely smug that they are in control. Witnesses are smug that their organization is untouchable.

              Sudden just means unexpected.

              Notice the exact same wording here
              Luke 22:34

              34 “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking+ and anxieties of life,+ and suddenly that day be instantly upon you

              SUDDENLY…..INSTANTLY

              Very familiar wording.

              Interestingly, in this parallel verse, Jesus also exorts the disciples not the unbelievers to not get weighed down.
              Paul knew there were some spiritually asleep and some awake INSIDE the congreg.
              It was a compliment to the Thessalonians that they were awake unlike some of their brothers.

              The day is coming upon Gods people as a snare not because the Anglo power is collapsing, but because that collapse will lead to a trap otherwise known as the judgement on the HOG. The test that will prove to be a deadly snare for smug complacent ones who think that this comfy world situation will continue right up til paradise.

              Nlt
              1Thes 5:3
              When people are saying, “Everything is peaceful and secure,”

            • Craig

              MSG
              1Thes5:3
              1 I don’t think, friends, that I need to deal with the question of when all this is going to happen.
              2 You know as well as I that the day of the Master’s coming can’t be posted on our calendars. He won’t call ahead and make an appointment any more than a burglar would.
              3 About the time everybody’s walking around complacently, congratulating each other – “We’ve sure got it made! Now we can take it easy!” – suddenly everything will fall apart. It’s going to come as suddenly and inescapably as birth pangs to a pregnant woman.

            • Huldah

              Great translation. Thanks Craig.

            • Huldah

              The ‘tribulation of those days’ is the ‘deathstroke’ on the anglo beast.

              Also called Egypt in Ezekiel
              Chap 32:7 after Egypt the sea monster is killed….

              7 ‘And when you are extinguished I will cover the heavens and darken their stars.

              I will cover the sun with clouds,

              And the moon will not give its light.+

              8 I will darken all the shining luminaries in the heavens because of you,

              And I will cover your land with darkness,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

              Jesus was quoting from Ezekiel when he prophesied the events in the luminaries.
              Exciting how it all lines up perfectly.

            • Huldah

              Hi Brian

              Here are some excerpts from a site callef Precept Austin

              Suddenly (160)(aiphnidios from aíphnes = unexpected, sudden) describes that which is unexpected or unforeseen. It is something that one cannot anticipate nor understand how it happened.

              Destruction (3639)(olethros from ollumi = to destroy. Derivative = apollumi = destroy utterly or fully and has to do with that which is ruined and is no longer usable for its intended purpose) is a state of utter and hopeless ruin and the end of all that gives worth to human existence! Do not confuse with a state of annihilation (and non-existence so that there is no longer an actual personal perception) for olethros signifies an unavoidable, very real experience of distress and torment! The destruction Paul warns about is a time of unavoidable distress, disaster and ruin. This destruction will not be a loss of being but rather a loss of well-being. The idea of olethros is to suffer the loss of all that gives worth to existence.

              http://www.preceptaustin.org/1thessalonians_51-3

              Lots more there. Fascinating analysis using the original Greek.

            • Huldah

              Thanks for your reply Kevin.

              I did read that article, twice.

              I’m not wanting to hound you on this, but just want to keep this dialogue going.

              My strong feelings on this are based on a lot of deep study.

              Here is an excerpt from Barnes Commentary on Bible Hub for 1Thes.5:3

              Barnes Commentary

              (2) the impenitent and wicked world will be sunk in carnal security when he comes. They will regard themselves as safe. They will see no danger. They will give no heed to warning. They will be unprepared for his advent. So it has always been. it seems to be a universal truth in regard to all the visitations of God to wicked people for punishment, that he comes upon them at a time when they are not expecting him, and that they have no faith in the predictions of his advent. So it was in the time of the flood; in the destruction of Sodom Gomorrah, and Jerusalem; in the overthrow of Babylon: so it is when the sinner dies, and so it will be when the Lord Jesus shall return to judge the world. One of the most remarkable facts about the history of man is, that he takes no warning from his Maker; he never changes his plans, or feels any emotion, because his Creator “thunders damnation along his path,” and threatens to destroy him in hell.

              Sudden destruction – Destruction that was unforeseen (αἰφνίδιος aiphnidios) or unexpected. The word here rendered “sudden,” occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, except in Luke 21:34, “Lest that day come upon you unawares.” The word rendered “destruction” – ὄλεθρος olethros – occurs in the New Testament only here and in 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Timothy 6:9, in all of which places it is correctly translated destruction. The word destruction is familiar to us. It means, properly, demolition; pulling down; the annihilation of the form of anything, or that form of parts which constitutes it what it is; as the destruction of grass by eating; of a forest by cutting down the trees; of life by murder; of the soul by consigning it to misery. It does not necessarily mean annihilation – for a house or city is not annihilated which is pulled down or burnt; a forest is not annihilated which is cut down; and a man is not annihilated whose character and happiness are destroyed. In regard to the destruction here referred to, we may remark:

              (1) it will be after the return of the Lord Jesus to judgment;

              Notice that thereis no”cry” of security just a strong sense of it.
              Notice that the word “sudden” just means as a snare as in Luke 21:34 a parallel verse.
              “Destruction” means a pulling down.
              As in the Watchtower organization being pulled down not death but an end.

              Most of the commentaries are leaning in this direction. Check out Bible Hub.

              I believe that the “cry” of peace and security” is a WT invention just like the “generation that wouldn’t pass away” and 1914.

              It’s a misdirect, an erroneous preconceived notion that misconstrues and clouds the true intent of the scriptures.

          • Huldah

            I’m back at it with this P&S thing.

            About a year ago, I found this excerpt from The New American Commentary

            “Only unbelievers will be taken by suprise by the fact of the Lord’s return. The clause “while people are saying, ‘peace and safety’ ” is not a prediction of a particular time in human history so much as a prediction of an attitude. 102 The words need not describe idyllic times but arrogant or self-deceived people. They are like the prophets and priests who disputed Jeremiah’s warnings of impending destruction and cried “peace, peace” when in fact Babylon was about to destroy the city (Jer6:14). . . . These are people who tell themselves they are secure and in control. They are not expecting God to invade their world.

            The footnote numbered “102” …..

            The use of hotan [“whenever” or “while”] plus the present tense legosin [“are saying”] also indicates that Paul was thinking generally of the character of people, not of a particular end-time event for which the aorist would be more appropriate.”

            There’s a site called ‘Precept Austin” that points out that the P&S idea is equal to what was said by Jesus about people ‘eating and drinking’ as in Noahs or Lots day.
            A prevailing attitude.
            It describes the destruction as possibly the end of an era or way of life.
            Makes a lot of sense.

            The masses as well as JWs are complacently secure in everyday life.

            Economic collapse or ww3 would destroy that delusion of security as will the judgement on the HOG.

        • i like the way you put it before – ‘enjoy it while it lasts’

        • Brother Robert i could not have said it better you are right on point we most Certainly are living in an illusion of security. in my Opinion trump does not seem to meet the Criteria of presidency hes a man whom seems to care more about finances trade and growth hes all about diplomatic solutions i think he him self lives with a false sense of security he very well may be the kind of US president that Russia and china have been waiting for it seems to me he’s the kind of man that does live in this illusion of peace and security and because of that he may very well find his self caught off guard. i can see it now president trump resolves global crisis and claims peace and security. i could be wrong but it appairs he fits the bill and he very well could be the last president of the united states.
          we can clearly see so much going on within the watchtower and even more taking place on the worlds political stages there is Absolutely no denying world current events and we must now more then ever keep on the watch.

          Jeremiah 5:31
          The prophets prophesy lies, And the priests dominate by their own authority. And my own people love it that way. But what will you do when the end comes?”

          Daniel 11:27
          “As regards these two kings, their heart will be inclined to do what is bad, and they will sit at one table speaking lies to each other. But nothing will succeed, because the end is yet for the time appointed.

          1 Thessalonians 5:3
          Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.

      • Beverly kenyon

        Hiya KB, I remember when I was studying in the late eighties they told me that it’s most likely there will be limited nuclear war and that was told me when Russia was breaking up and becoming what it is now as some of the breakaway states had nuclear weapons so fast forward to present day and you’ve got unstable countries with nuclear weapons ready to go and in my opinion much worse…chemical weapons, at least when you’re nuked it’s quick! There’s going to be a WW3 and a financial collapse or the other way round but those two catastrophic events will take place as its unsustainable the things we see happening in the world and its gaining momentum….hate is palpable, rape is du jour, violence is unimaginable, greed, paedophilia is an epidemic and rampant, suicides, poverty, animal cruelty, people ruining the Earth and the Seas, even in outer space we leave our rubbish…a pristine virgin place, but no, let’s leave our rubbish there as well, the horror list is endless and I bet there’s more we’re unaware of! Ken Rosenbery in the Forum posts a while back said, if things carry on for years then the 1914 delusion would be forgotten basically so then what would be the deluding influence? It was something like that but it made me think as he had a point if you just think that it’s going to carry on enevitably and also Brother King sums it up scripturally in his post to you which is fantastic reminder. Whether WW3 is a sign or not all I know is that all these things written in the Bible and reasonably explained by Brother King are going to happen as horrific as its going to be and I’m glad I’m aware as opposed to those clueless ones in that picture above!

        • Joel

          Well said Beverly! Here, here!

          • Beverly kenyon

            Thanks You Joel.

        • Richard Long

          Same time frame for me. I think I Imagined Bethel “under the dome” when the nukes fell.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Looking at world chronology, this has been the first time in world history where the nations are equipped to rise against each other; Israel, Korea, Russia, China, Britain, France, a host of nations under NATO, and India, Pakistan and possibly Iran. During the Cuban crisis, there was not the same potential for world distruction’ but there is now. That this crisis will die down to rise again as a fourth or fifth conflict is not scripturally necessary to prove the issue with Satan. As jehovah has assured us that he will not delay in bringing his kingdom, it would be reasonable to hope that he will use the circumstances unraveling now. To do less, would seem to be a delay. Álso, all other biblical circumstances are either evident, or seemingly close. As you point out, no one knows the day or the hour, but we do know that Jehovah will not delay.

        • Joel

          Excellent reasoning Burt! Well thought out.

          We need not look any further down the line in the future for any “more” or “other’ confirming signs. This current Generation seems poised to be the one where ” all things take place. ”

          Yes, it appears as if our Generation will be on the receiving end of a grand ushering in to a “New Heavens and a New Earth,” the long-awaited PARADISE, the New Order!

          O what a day that will be!

          If we are not the Generation, then just as you said, Burt, it would definitely be an unnecessary DELAY on God’s part. Our world presently has ALL the final pieces to complete the biblical end-times scenario.

          May we pray that this is it—this time, and that we are among the blessed survivors.

        • Beverly kenyon

          True Burt, especially interesting bit about world chronology.

        • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

          Yes you hit it correctly. Some say that Israel posses equal to Russia, is that right?

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Basavaraj , nice to see you back. I hope all is well with you. I was simply listing some of the nuclear threats that could or would participate in the coming conflict and not who presented the greatest threat. I have no idea where it will begin. However, if I was the Israelis premier, I would think twice, given that my country could be wiped out with just a single bomb, but then, sense and sensibility have never figured much in the politicians mind….if they have one at all.

            • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

              Hey that makes sense yes thought for the day.

            • Beverly kenyon

              True Burt, Israel is surrounded on all sides by Islam, so given politicians are not in their right minds and we know who are driving them in their lunacy, Israel wouldn’t be shy in delivering the knock out punch first time as whoever they would have to be sure they get back up! And that sends a message to their other enemies who would be lining up to take them out….do you really want to mess with us, do you want some of what ‘he’ just got?! Correction….who ever they deliver knock out punch to its to make sure they don’t get back up!

            • Richard Long

              Israel’s conventional war machine is devastatingly superior to all of it’s neighbors forces combined. Hence, its continued existence. Were Israel not ready and able to to defend against all comers, the real estate would already be called “Palestine”.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Combined! Whoa! It’s only a small country so wonder where all that hardware is kept? Bet it’s like living in a fortress!

            • Richard Long

              Almost without exception, EVERY adult Israeli is a trained professional warrior. When my 19 yr old daughter wanted self defense training, I suggested Krav Maga because no warrior is as fierce as an Israeli woman! lol

            • Beverly kenyon

              Wow, I wouldn’t like to meet any of them in a dark alley! Yeah, I know that they’re called up for National Service and isn’t that Krav Maga like some super intense Martial Art? Those Isralies don’t mess about when it comes to their security but who wants to live like that, like you’re in combat all the time but they’re the only Democratic country in a sea of Islam so I suppose it’s a necessary evil to stay alive. Are you Jewish Richard? Hope you don’t think I’m being cheeky asking that. We have a Jewish Brother called Yuri here on EWatchman who lives in Israel and he’s from a very cold congregation where him and his wife are treated badly but he’s stood his ground and put up with it and I have great respect for Yuri.

            • Richard Long

              But if you med bad actors in a dark ally, you would be happy to be she were your companion! lol, NO, not Jewish. Not that there’s anything wrong with being Jewish, I mean, some of my best friends are Jewish. (this is the ridiculous way Americans handle inquiries into their Jewry, provided as an example of american cheek) My background is pure southeast US mongrel white trash southern baptist hypocrite. Can’t trace any of my genealogy past 1890 something, that being 100% Dutch and the rest English I am told.

              My daughter is a beautiful, petite young woman who works graveyard as a Walmart cashier to help support her education. She has “picked up” a few “favorite customers” who seem to often be lingering outside the store when her shift ends at 7 am, having completed their shopping spree with obligatory creepy come-on at 5 am. As a first line of defense, I have provided her with this:

              https://www.tigerlady.com/

              but the device is useless if she is overcome by surprise and delayed reaction due to shock. Our “local” (it’s 20 miles away) Krav Maga dojo has a half day course providing the participants actual experience in surprise attack and response.

              I would very much like to know Yuri and, in my opinion, one might give more weight to his telling of Israeli circumstance than mine, as it originates in media of uncertain trustworthiness. Perhaps he can confirm or deny what I have passed on. Blessings to you, dear sister!

            • Beverly kenyon

              You’re dead right I would want her to be on my side in that alley if there were iffy characters lurking. They’d get proper skull dragged! Crying laughing at the, ‘white trash mongrel’ bit. Hilarious ? Awww, your daughter sounds lovely and that’s not right, customers waiting when she finishes her shifts. That’s unsafe and creepy and intrusive. She needs to get to the dojo for intensive Krav Maga in case she has to seriously Krav Maga some butt! Please tell her to be wary as there’s proper cranks out there! Yuri is lovely and a true witness. Actually I think that’s his new user name on EWatchman…True Witness.

            • Richard Long

              “customers waiting when she finishes her shifts. That’s unsafe and creepy and intrusive.”

              Dudes my age, but, fortunately, NOT elders at any of the nearby congregations.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yeah, fortunately Richard.

            • Richard Long

              The vast majority of white American men reserve the right to be creepy, it seems.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Well if you say so Richard. Lol. Believe me, creepy men come in all shades. Euwww.

            • Richard Long

              And yet, these calculations are already made. The sense and sensibilities of the oligarchs is that we will die and they shall survive to rule another day, but with far less resistance.

              https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobson/2015/06/12/billionaire-bunkers-exclusive-look-inside-the-worlds-largest-planned-doomsday-escape/#4251d244306f

          • Richard Long

            Not even close. Russia is said to possess more nuclear warheads than the US.

            https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

            • Beverly kenyon

              I believe that Richard. America might’ve showcased MOAB but next day It was in the media about Russia’s ‘Father of all Bombs’. Charming! Wonder whose heads Putin is gonna drop that bad boy on to test it! There really is something sinister bubbling.

            • Richard Long

              Hopefully, City of London. How far are you from the River Thames? Or, Washington, or the Vatican…. Don’t have a preference either way, except that I choose DC if only to cause you less distress, dear one.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Lol. Thanks a bloomin lot Richard! I’m very far from the Thames thank goodness but it might take out Burt and Daisy’s windows as they’re from down South and I’m up North, where the magic happens. Lol. Manchester or Manchestaw as us Mancs say it!

      • e.v.g

        One of those days was when the beatles played in the ed sullivan show, we need the beatles.

        • Jamie Mac

          e.v.g where you around when that epic event took place. We need all four of them :-), only 2 left.

          • Richard Long

            Pete Best is also still living.

            • Jamie Mac

              fake beatle 🙂 replaced with the one and only Ringo

      • Anderiega

        Hi. I often have similar feelings. It’s not easy being on “high alert” everyday…. Especially when you’ve been told to be on high alert literally everyday and “Armageddon is just around the corner……..”

        One of the things that does seem to bolster my faith that things can’t continue to WW4 or 5, etc is the condition of our planet. When I listen to scientists talk about how this planet cannot support life after 2050 it makes me think of the promise that “Jehovah will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth.”

  • Beverly kenyon

    Wow! Really scared now! Brother King’s tweet about North Korea is bang on! Watching France 24 news and just saw a North Korean official say, if America keeps being provocative towards them or words to that effect then they’re going to launch a pre-emptive strike against them and we know recently America has said their tolerance levels for the ‘fat kid’ is wearing out! That American politician called Kim Jung On the, ‘fat kid’. I can see that happening unless China steps in and calm the ‘fat kid’ down but his people are so brain washed and indoctrinated that they would willingly sacrifice their lives for their great leader, the ‘fat kid’. And in their country its all about saving face. Everyone’s ‘crazy’ is coming out.

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi Beverly, I watched a documentary a short while ago on North Korea, Some journalist had a hidden camera. It was a scary thing, brainwashed and indoctrinated they certainly are. Has the witnessing work ever been done there. If not, then these poor people will have no knowledge of their creator.

      • Beverly kenyon

        Funny that Jamie, I was only thinking the same the other day…is there witnesses in that country? I watched a documentary once on that country where a lot of people watch films, series on DVDs and memory sticks were being smuggled into the country so who knows if they have a knowledge of God. Maybe, as hideous as war is, could this be the fall of the regime in that country leading to the freeing of the people and hopefully the people locked up in those secret prison where they’re starved, murdered, tortured, even children…my blood runs cold when I think of those people. Jehovah knows who belong to him so if there’s one soul whose heart is inclined towards him, I know Jehovah will find that person otherwise most of those people will be going to Hades which might be a blessing for most because it’s got to be better than living like a mindless robot without hope or purpose, just existing.

        • Richard Long
          • Jamie Mac

            Richard, I never realised that. That image tells us a lot and sums up how things are there without even having to resort to speech.

            • Richard Long

              which we all know i need to use more sparingly!

            • Jamie Mac

              Ha Ha, actually Richard, that thought never crossed my mind. Now that you mention it ……… 🙂

          • Beverly kenyon

            Bloomin heck Richard, North Korea is in blackness! Here we are in the modern age and you’ve got people living like that…that shouldn’t be allowed! The people secretly watching DVDs and using memory sticks were in the Capitol but the documentary showed people in the rural areas where lots of children had been abandoned and were begging and living on the streets literally in rags, it broke my heart and there’s no way I could watch something like again…too heartbreaking. But on a lighter note, I’ve got to say, Kim Jong Un’s troops have got fabulous uniforms! Some say, ‘the fat kid’ is a worse dictator than his father so what hope of freedom from his clutches for those people.

            • Richard Long

              We’ve got it all wrong!!!! Young Mr. Kim is doing his level best – self-sacrificing even – to protect his beloved children from the evil, death-dealing ravages of lightning paced modern civilization!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Young Mr Kim is a demonic psychopath who needs to do one! What about the death dealing ravages of his dictatorship! I wonder if in his quiet moment he thinks to himself…I can’t believe all these people are blindly following me and then he does a victory dance because it’s unbelievable how the Kim’s dynasty has carried on for so long! Mmmm, forgot they’ve got no oil and they’re best friends with China.

            • Richard Long

              That is what I said, only i took the circuitous, non linear rebuttal disguised as supporting argument route. ;} Sorry to cause distress, Beverly. Please forgive.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Forgiven.

            • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

              What if NK is liberated just as Japan in 1945 from the clutches of dictator Mr. Kim and truth being preached into that state before the end comes?

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hi Basa, great to hear from you and I hope everything is good for you and family. It’s not looking good the way things are going for the ‘Hermit Kingdom’ but if it falls then it is liberation for those captive people and the Good News of the Kingdom would be told to ones who have a receptive heart and the system limps on. Perimeno wrote a brilliant article, ‘You will not be able to witness to every town in Israel until the Son of Man Comes’ Matt 10:23, speaking about that very same point you’ve brought up.

            • Richard Long

              Such would be a great kindness on Jehovah’s part.

  • Francis Bencharles

    Is there more than one tribulation spoken of in the scriptures? Or just one?

    • Jamie Mac

      Francis, that sounds like you already have your own answer and you are just testing us. Correct me if I am wrong.

      • Francis Bencharles

        Yes Jamie, I raise the question due to people speaking about the calling of “peace and security” and does it come before the signs in Matthew 24 or is peace and security sometime later. I happen to think that the cry of peace and security will not come before WWIII but will come after the globalists have established a form of worldwide domination whereas they feel as if they have established such Peace & Security due to the set up of their totalitarian government and because they think that they have squashed all that oppose them. The Bible indicates that this first “tribulation” will catch people by surprise, even Christians, but if we hear “Peace and Security”, how can that be a surprise?

        • Jamie Mac

          Hi Francis, I understand your logic and you have articulated it before However, others have addressed this with sound reasoning with you and I will always side with the vast majority on this site not because I am gullible or easily led but because I have attempted to reason it out based on what I read in the bible and Roberts articles and peoples wonderfully thought out and detailed answers here on this site.

        • Daisy

          Robert has already said that the people saying “peace and security” will be from those who set up their fascist/communist big brother government. That much is stuck in my head. Robert has already mentioned that thought. What hasn’t stuck in my head is where I read it or heard it. But it was from here….long before you arrived.

      • Richard Long

        I’m experiencing a semi-great minor secondary tribulation RIGHT NOW!

        • Daisy

          NAUGHTY Richard!

          • Richard Long

            cant help it, had to relieve the gas

        • Southern ShaSha

          I’m experiencing a pesky “daddy long leg in my house, grandchildren are terrified, we finally threw it out, only to have it or another slip back in the side door.
          Really scary and frustrating!

          • Jamie Mac

            Daddy long legs ( what a great name by the way, I wonder what name Adam gave them) don’t appear here in the UK until late August. Did you manage to throw it out with all of its legs attached.

            • Southern ShaSha

              Jamie I’m not sure of it’s condition, as we had to slam the door quickly. But there are a few others waiting to slip back in!!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Dyson vacuum cleaner every time. Even for tarantulas.

            • Richard Long

              WHAT!? did you not know that DDL’s are the most venomous spider on the planet?????!!! They’re only “reasonably” safe to handle because their mouths are too small to bite humans!!!!!

              Er, except that’s a myth:

              http://www.livescience.com/33625-daddy-longlegs-spiders-poisonous.html

              The youngest of my wife’s insane cat posse eats the ones she catches…..

    • Southern ShaSha

      Frank, you may just be tired, have you considered taking a little time off? A little rest, chill time!

      • Daisy

        What a brilliant idea ShaSha….perhaps a long-ish holiday in north Korea…

        • Jamie Mac

          Daisy , now that is a NAUGHTY suggestion. 🙂

          • Southern ShaSha

            I believe perhaps Daisy is as tired as I am!!!

        • Southern ShaSha

          Oh….Daisy. But a long rest is good for anyone right?

          • Daisy

            Oh…stoppit ShaSha… That’s funny. I’ m so enjoying myself being “worldly” …and just before Robert blocks me too….Such fun. . .

            • Southern ShaSha

              Daisy, let’s just pretend we had a key board malfunction, I won’t tell if you don’t!

    • Southern ShaSha

      You just turned around and answered your own question!

  • Jamie Mac

    Warning everyone, Victor is back, he has just up voted Francis. I am assuming it is the same Victor as before.

    • Beverly kenyon

      Jamie, I hope there is only one of him and I hope while he’s being a ‘silent reader’ he reads Sister Thinking’s post yesterday on false prophets! Read it and weep Victor!

  • Vicky

    This is all full of lies and is from a false prophet, Jehovah told us to be aware of these ones who would try and divide true Christian and spread lies. So sad

    • Beverly kenyon

      What are you on about?

    • Song of Hannah

      So Vicky, what exactly is a lie? And how can anyone be accused of dividing true Christians if they recommend that JWs stay in Jehovah’s Organization and not leave?

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi Vicky, please elaborate so a loving discussion can take place.

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi Vicky, Still waiting for your explanation on your comment. It surely begs for one.

  • Richard Long
  • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

    To Brother Robert King
    Watch Tower can still twist things see we have always published in our magazine that end will come and what has happen now is what we have been preaching since then and also they will tell that the things that started in 1914 has reached its climax now. Yes they can twist they can twist because they don’t want to accept their mistakes.

    • Thinking

      Our discipline will be viewed as persecution…but as it goes on..and BTG remains many will be stumbled…and a great refining take place…it’s also why we need to stay with our brothers and sisters to help them with this….their lives are at stake…it’s hard for us to stay at this time…but soon we will see how vital it was…and we will be so happy we endured and persisted with it…

      • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

        Yeah I take that advice

      • Richard Long

        Cant grasp meaning of “BTG” acronym. Someone, anyone blurt it out so I can stop feeling obtuse and start feeling ignorant :p

        • Thinking

          Babylon the great…:)

          • Richard Long

            Thank you. Brain flatulence.

  • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

    To all brothers and Sisters who are in this website
    Robert King is right and this to be appreciated as he is throwing us the light. Well I encourage in this point of time to go through http://www.baruq.uk/easach_purpose_2017.html and reply to easajw@gmail.com.

    • Beverly kenyon

      Basa, I love reading all the contributed articles on Baruq…love that site so will check out that link you’ve posted. I read a fantastic article the other day on Baruq’s site about the 24 elders and what exactly are their roles and a fantastic article on the Memorial and another article on the Showbread used in the Temple. It’s great also to see some of Brother King’s articles on Baruq as he’s reaching some of that audience. Also, not to forget, an amazing article on ‘Birthdays’ and how it’s a personal option whether you can celebrate it or not!

  • oh brother talk about sitting at the table and feeding lies to one another.

    https://youtu.be/V5PHhW4FWy4

    • Beverly kenyon

      Yeah Leonard, and who’s going to blink first! I don’t want to be collateral damage cos they’re getting trigger happy in their lunacy!

      • Kim Jong Il at the OK Corral

        by Patrick J. Buchanan – February 5, 2003

        Is Kim Jong Il seeking a showdown with the U.S. president who told the world he personally “loathes” the North Korean ruler?

        Does Kim intend to force Bush into a humiliating retreat from the vaunted Bush Doctrine of “pre-emptive strike,” as Khrushchev was forced to publicly retreat in the Cuban missile crisis?

        What other explanation is there for Kim’s brinkmanship?

        In recent weeks, North Korea removed U.N. cameras and broke the seals on its nuclear reactor, ordered U.N. inspectors out of the country, and renounced the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Now, satellite photos reveal that North Korean trucks may be transferring spent fuel rods from the Yongbyon reactor to a nearby reprocessing plant. There, the plutonium can be extracted for nuclear weapons.

        Within “weeks and months,” says Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei of the International Atomic Energy Agency, North Korea may be producing atom bombs. Nor has Kim tried to hide what he is up to.

        He has thrown up an in-your-face challenge to the president who, in last year’s State of the Union, declared to the world, “The United States … will not permit the world’s most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world’s most destructive weapons.”

        Remarkable. Iraq denies it has weapons of mass destruction. U.N. inspectors cannot find any. Yet, Iraq faces invasion. But North Korea brazenly fires up a plant to produce fuel for atom bombs, as President Bush offers repeated assurances he has no plans to attack.

        This cannot continue. For if North Korea has decided to build a nuclear arsenal, not only is the Bush Doctrine dead on the Korean peninsula, the balance of power in Asia is imperiled. For if America does nothing, while Pyongyang goes nuclear – despite the president’s vow he would not permit it – U.S. credibility, on which all our Asian alliances hinge, will be gravely eroded.

        George Bush’s America will have been faced down by a tyrant.

        As of today, no one knows whether North Korea has perfected an atom bomb it can deliver on target. Kim has never conducted a test. But if North Korea turns out enough fissile material for half a dozen bombs, and Bush does nothing, the option of a U.S. pre-emptive strike vanishes. Put bluntly: If that Yongbyon reprocessing plant is not shut down by Kim, or destroyed by U.S. air power by April, U.S. credibility will be shredded in Asia.

        But what is Kim after? Does he want war with America?

        This seems improbable. Though North Korea – with its 11,000 artillery tubes on the DMZ, its hundreds of missiles and a handful of atomic bombs – could kills scores of thousands of Koreans, Japanese and Americans, Kim cannot win a second Korean War. Yet, such a war would bring the destruction of his country and the end of his regime.

        The more likely answer is that Kim seeks several goals, all of them attainable. The first is security from attack. The second is to force Bush to accord North Korea recognition and respect. The third is a renewal of fuel and aid to keep North Korea alive.

        Kim is not a madman. He has seen how, when Red China went nuclear, U.S. threats ceased, Nixon came to pay his respects and Beijing was handed China’s seat in the U.N., while Taiwan was expelled. America then abrogated its defense treaty with Taipei and shifted its embassy to Beijing. U.S. investment poured into China, and America escorted Beijing into the World Trade Organization and now permits China to run a trade surplus at our expense of $100 billion a year.

        Even George Bush kowtows. When a Chinese MIG crashed into a U.S. surveillance plane in international airspace, Bush and Secretary Colin Powell repeatedly expressed sorrow for the death of the crazed Chinese pilot, and paid to have our plane crated up and shipped home. Kim wants the kind of deal the Chinese got.

        Now, with the world watching, he is demanding that the Americans negotiate directly with him, as he moves closer to producing weapons-grade plutonium.

        President Bush has very few options. He can bomb the Yongbyon reprocessing plant and risk war. He can seek U.N. sanctions, which Kim says would be a declaration of war. He can refuse to negotiate, as Kim defies his ultimatums and acquires enough fissile material for a dozen bombs.

        The president and Powell have apparently decided that the way to win this showdown is to smash Iraq to show Kim what happens to regimes that defy the United States. But even before Baghdad is occupied, Kim may have enough plutonium for half a dozen atom bombs. What do we do if he then says, “OK, come and get ’em.”

        By the way, who was it that put all that bellicose Axis-of-Evil rhetoric in the president’s speeches in the first place? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2c2e52ad68680e54062ba63d0809e5f75f9381a6d252cc366d467f274fd0f578.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8db879ab72fa42fd413d97605dd2ddab172095b76db4b824ba7ffec654f659c4.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/55c9c8aa29a63c1194497ab1ebceac1fde6d00d961a927a21f802310fa9a3c84.jpg

        http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/792438/North-Korea-Kim-Jong-un-Pyongyang-missile-launch-World-War-3-Donald-Trump-USA#t=6s

        • Beverly kenyon

          Hi Leonard K, that article was a real fascinating read and there was that word, Brinkmanship! When North Korea feels it’s been ignored that’s what happens…Brinkmanship. My opinium is that two faced China will always back North Korea because of what’s happening with the American presence in the North China Seas….North Korea will wade in if push comes to shove and help put its mate. Thanks Leonard for posting that article…very informative.

        • Richard Long

          The point being “we’ve seen this movie before”?

          • my point being its all the same old storry and around and around it goes but i am glad that it will all have an end and jehova’h will have the final word.

  • Footage emerged last night supposedly showing the moment evacuation alarms rang out across Pyongyang amid mounting tensions between the US and North Korea.

    In the video, shared to YouTube, alarms signalling for residents to flee the North Korean city are clearly audible.

    You can watch the footage in this civilian video below:

    https://youtu.be/lAAaPlUU7bA

    • Not everyone is being evacuated. The evacuees are people who are deemed to be most likely to aid enemy invaders.

      • so they evacuated those first who would be thought to hep/aid an invading army? i did not read that very interesting if you dont mind me asking where did you read that?
        in any case for some reason i didnt think north koria would go through with there missile test after all the north KORIAN president has a history of rhetoric so i never took him at his words.

  • Sam Knight

    Seems to me that there’s a lot of folks in here that’d love to see the world burn because they disagree with the watchtower. Way to go!

  • Joseph of Aramathea
    • Bklyn Kevin

      But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin.
      For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains.
      Timothy 6:9-10.

    • Craig

      A ban on JW’s in Russia would plug the Watchtower pipeline to America.

  • https://youtu.be/gdQaYFSHB8o

    Revelation 21:4
    And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

    The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
    Revelation 7:17
    because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”

    • Burt Reynolds

      Nice video Leonard. Thanks. I needed that today.

  • Francis Bencharles
    • Jamie Mac

      Typical English Humour Francis, Are you a fan of the Python team. I’m surprised it would appeal to Americans 🙂

      • Francis Bencharles

        I have enjoyed their humor all my adult life. I just thought these two seconds would be funny to share. I saw it on another site and got a small chuckle out of it. The next video was the best version of the dead parrot skit. I had to watch it again.

        • Jamie Mac

          ah the famous dead parrot skit. Perhaps that skit could be likened to the WT in it’s current state. 🙂

  • Leonard k
  • Leonard k
  • Leonard k
  • Leonard k
  • Leonard k
  • Joseph of Aramathea
    • Jamie Mac

      Hi Joseph, I hope everything is ok with you. I have not seen many comments from you lately, I’m missing them 🙂

  • Published on Apr 28, 2017
    LIVE: Emergency North Korea Briefing, TAKE ACTION? Rex Tillerson Chairs UN Security Council

    U.N. Security Council Briefing on North Korea

    Secretary of State Rex Tillerson chaired a U.N. Security Council briefing on the latest developments in North Korea

    LIVE ? Emergency North Korea Briefing, TAKE ACTION? Rex Tillerson Chairs UN Security Council

    https://youtu.be/4G8yDSNqouI

  • The Raven

    “That will become apparent when the missiles really start flying. Indeed, we may expect the Watchtower to double down, as they say, and become the source of misleading proclamations that Christ is “here,” in the inner chambers, or “there,” in the wilderness, so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.”

    Hmmm…That’s an interesting thought and it opens up a whole ‘nother can of worms if true.

  • The Raven

    It appears I’ve been replying to partial discussions. I cannot see all the comments beneath the article. Only some. I can see partial comments in the sidebar. I apologize. I’ve also been dealing with some bad lag for some reason. Any help would be appreciated. 🙂

    • Richard Long

      Disqus lag. Either that or an Echelon burp. If your gonna post anything of any length, save it to docs before you click post just in case, as many of us have spent hours writing things only to watch them vanish.

      • The Raven

        I was using Chrome, switched to Firefox, seems to be a little better but still won’t show all comments.

        • Richard Long

          It’s Disqus. Or more specifically some lack of continuity in the way Disqus overlays on your browser. Refresh the page often. The comments on the page reset when you do and as you scroll down, you will see “show more” on longer individual comments or a gray bar with “load more comments” on long discussions. Other than that, try clenching your teeth or cycling facial expressions. You have to hold your mouth just the right way…

          • The Raven

            Haha. Will do. Thanks.

  • Huldah

    Ps 82:1New American Standard Bible
    A Psalm of Asaph. God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers..2“How long will you hand down unjust decisions
    by favoring the wicked?
    5But these oppressors know nothing;
    they are so ignorant!
    They wander about in darkness,
    while the whole world is shaken to the core.
    6I say, ‘You are gods;
    you are all children of the Most High.
    7But you will die like mere mortals
    and fall like every other ruler.’”

  • Huldah

    On the point of false Christs, there is a lot of insight in the whole chapter of John 10 on the sheep knowing their shepherd.

    1“I tell you the truth, anyone who sneaks over the wall of a sheepfold, rather than going through the gate, must surely be a thief and a robber! 2But the one who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep recognize his voice and come to him. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

    4After he has gathered his own flock, he walks ahead of them, and they follow him because they know his voice. 5They won’t follow a stranger; they will run from him because they don’t know his voice.”

    Jesus, his manner and teachings are the gate. A willingness to sacrifice for the sheep. The false shepherd doesn’t enter through the gate. Jesus goes on to describe the FSs selfish greedy manner and unwillingness to sacrifice for the sheep.

    In another article Robert described how people gravitate toward what they want to hear. The two “voices” of the WT are a test of what we truly love. Truth or ease.

    The true sheep will not listen to the voice that directs them to complacent distraction. They don’t think of the torture stake of Christ as foolishness but realize that sacrifice and testing is the only way to everlasting life.

    2Cor. 1:18
    18 For the speech about the torture stake* is foolishness to those who are perishing,+ but to us who are being saved, it is God’s power.+

  • Frank Haensel

    So what DO we do Robert; move to an area far removed from a possible blast area? Not too many of those in Germany.
    Bleak prospects for all, especially when JW`s start evaporating in the heat.

    • Taking refuge in the secret place of the Most High is the only secure place. Of course, you have to know the secret password to get in.

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