When Is “Then”?

//When Is “Then”?

Thursday, July 21

People will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations.Matt. 24:9.

As followers of Christ and Witnesses of Jehovah, we are persecuted in nations around the world. This is to be expected. In the face of such hatred, however, we endure in the Kingdom-preaching work and continue to prove ourselves holy before Jehovah. Although we are honest, clean-living, and law-abiding citizens, why are we so hated? Because we have made Jehovah our Sovereign Lord! We render sacred service to “him alone” and will never compromise on his righteous laws and principles.  We are also “no part of the world.” Therefore, we are neutral with regard to the world’s wars and political affairs. If we are focused on God’s sovereignty and we trust in him, nobody can cause us to compromise and be ensnared by cowardly fear.


In some respects the institution of the Watchtower is like an overly protective parent who would lie to their children to protect them from the harsh realities of life. So it is, that, Jehovah’s Witnesses are told by “mother” that this is as bad as it gets. And like a parent telling an embellished bedtime story, the Watchtower has convinced Jehovah’s Witnesses that the great dragon has already been thrown from heaven and in a rage he ruthlessly persecuted the Bible Students —even throwing the leaders of the Watchtower in prison. Jehovah’s two anointed witnesses were killed by the dastardly enemy, who rejoiced over their demise.

There is no question that Jehovah’s Witnesses are one of the most hated religious groups in the world. But to my knowledge not a single witness or Bible Student has ever been killed by persecutors in the United States —not so much as one. True, back in the 30’s and 40’s a few were arrested and some even beaten by enraged mobs. Hundreds of children were expelled from school for not placing their right hand upon their heart and pledging their allegiance. A couple of JW’s in Texas suffered the indignity of being tarred and  feathered. Many hundreds of men have done prison time for their refusal to be conscripted into military service. Still, no American Jehovah’s Witnesses have been killed. That is a good thing.

But it does present a problem, because Jesus said you will be handed over to tribulation and be killed. Is it just JW’s who lived long ago in nations that were ruled by tyrants who experience tribulation and are killed — like Hitler’s Nazi Germany or the former USSR?

It certainly seems odd that if Satan was cast down in 1914 and went off to wage war upon those who have the work of bearing witness to Jesus that he would not focus his opposition upon the nation where the witness bearers are most concentrated and where the work originates and from where it is directed. Yet, Jehovah’s Witnesses have thrived in America. Not only that, but because of the relative peace and prosperity that has existed since the last World War thousands of Gilead trained American missionaries have gone to the far corners of the earth to preach the good news.

Notice the day’s verse again. There is a little word that the Daily Text omitted. Jesus actually said: Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.”

Little words can have great meaning. The question is, when is then? To answer that question consider the next verse. It says: “Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”

The adverb “then” denotes an ordering, a sequence of events. Previously in context Jesus said that nations and kingdoms would go to war. There will be food shortages, pandemics and then…

So, after the great eruption then the persecution begins. Then many will be stumbled and hate one another. And then the end will come, after the good news has been preached. However, although you may have have read these verses in Matthew many times, or the versions of Jesus’ words as recorded by Luke and Mark, there is likely a very important detail that you may have overlooked. What is that?

Mark’s account of Jesus’ prophecy is a bit more detailed as regards the tribulation and persecution that Christians are destined to suffer. After describing the beginning pangs of distress, the wars, etc., Jesus said: “As for you, look out for yourselves. People will hand you over to local courts, and you will be beaten in synagogues and be put on the stand before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them. Also, in all the nations, the good news has to be preached first.”

Whereas, Matthew wrote that the good news will be preached in all the earth and then the end will come, Mark wrote that the good news has to be preached first. The question is, first before what? In context it is first, before people hand you over to tribulation, as Matthew said, and as Mark said in more detail, handed over to local courts —to stand before governors and kings.

This means that the good news is preached before Christians are handed over to tribulation to be killed. What it really means is that the good news is preached in all the earth before nations and kingdoms are thrown into tumult. It is preached before the wars and food shortages and pestilence claim hundreds of millions of lives. 

The reason Jehovah’s Witnesses have enjoyed such a prolonged period of peace is because Satan and the demons have not been cast down. But when they are, then is when “people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations.”

Of course, Jehovah’s Witnesses could never come to this realization on their own. And we may be certain the Watchtower will never let go of 1914. However, reality is certain to intervene. When the bombs and missiles begin flying then Jehovah’s Witnesses will wake up – at least those who are not stumbled by the unexpected coming of Christ like a thief in the night. 

2017-03-18T11:24:19+00:00 July 21st, 2016|Commentary|156 Comments
  • yehaaaa! we get to be locked in a cage and then shot. something to look forward to. cant wait.

    • patri

      well look at the atrocities done to innocents during war…still can’t get out of my mind pictures of women carved up after being raped by u.s so(u)l-die-rs during the vietnam war…and if humans have no conscience concerning their lack of godliness, by taking away lives that don’t belong to them *before* S the D is pushed out of heaven, then God help us one and all…
      …”and we will never compromise on his righteous laws and principles. We are also no part of the world. Therefore we are neutral to the world’s wars and political affairs…”
      (propaganda for today…)

      • im a grumpy old man patri*.
        i dont know what to pray or ask Jehovah to do for you. i just say hey Jehovah, you know what help she needs before i even bring her to your attention. wish i was magic then id help people besides speaking to zombies and brick-walls that are satisfied with this system of death.
        i wish i could walk over to heaven and see what Jehovah and the angels are up to but instead im stuck here with retards and wicked imbeciles that have nothing better to do but cause problems for everyone.
        angels are real lucky.

        • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista

          Whoever you are, I look forward to meeting you (unless you’re in heaven, if that’s your invitation). You make me smile. I totally resonate with your last sentence.

        • Beverly kenyon

          DA….you’re just the best! You summed it all up so brilliantly! Your post is serious but funny at the same time. Love it!!

        • e.v.g

          Grumpy? you should know me, I have an attitude that borders on antisocial.

          • ELiJAHxSEVEN

            WOW…Im NOT the ONLY one?!…YES!

            • what you mean?

            • ELiJAHxSEVEN

              “grumpy and anti social”…i thought that was funny to have others admit that

            • oh, nm. i mistook which of his post you were replying to. i scrolled right past em

        • patri

          …so would I be grumpy if I had to wear a mask like you do, well …wouldn’t mind borrowing it in February when I look about 95!
          Since finding here I too try to talk to God as much as possible, my dog walking time is alone prayer time, and I too usually start as you do, something like well,…you know God before I do. But just knowing that springboards the hearts thoughts to dive into a big pool of love for everything and everybody even overcoming the irritation of living in a world of medieval lunatics…those happy to return to the feudal system having no desires to think further than just their own existence.
          These mumpties are the ones really looking forward to a thing that they really won’t be looking forward to…everlasting death.

          • 1914for100Alex

            Mumpties…I learned a new word! Thanks!

    • Beverly kenyon

      If that’s the case DA, hopefully the person isn’t a bad shot and it’s quick! Yeah, can’t wait!

    • Bklyn Kevin

      More food for thought.

      Jesus’ disciples may face death.


      John 16:I have said these things to you so that you may not be stumbled.
      2 Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God.
      3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.
      4 Nevertheless, I have told you these things so that when the hour for them to happen arrives, you will remember that I told them to you.

      Matthew 24:
      9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.

      Acts 81 Saul, for his part, approved of his murder. On that day great persecution arose against the congregation that was in Jerusalem; all except the apostles were scattered throughout the regions of Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a.

      Acts 26:11 By punishing them often in all the synagogues, I tried to force them to recant; and since I was extremely furious with them, I went so far as to persecute them even in outlying cities.

      Acts 12:1, 2 About that time Herod the king began mistreating some of those of the congregation. He put James the brother of John to death by the sword.

      Matthew 5:10 “Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/5/#v40005010


      I would take your bullet Bro…

  • Sam

    Y’know it’s funny the “Babylons Judgment Hour” P Talk outline says the composite sign Jesus gave “has been developing since 1914” since 1914? So why would Jesus give a sign that becomes fulfilled over the course of 100+ years? What would be the point. Jesus illustration of the fig tree wouldn’t serve much point since the leaves on the tree have been in evidence for over 100 years now. Talk about artfully contrived!

  • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista

    My tired brain is so thankful for these commentaries….because they make 100% sense with scripture. I wish I could share this commentary with all my witness friends, but sadly at this time I cant….it would be like taking heroin away from an addict, or as Robert more kindly put it…. shattering a child’s fairy tale that has rocked her to sleep every night.
    I’m so thankful I’m not humming the lullaby in my head anymore and i can pay attention to the reality around me…..and hopefully stay awake for Christ’s true coming.

  • Andres Felipe

    Good morning Roberto my brother hope found I enjoyed break.hope not disturb my comentarios.quiero translated into your language a question that came to me when I read an article from the website which is also his book called baruc .to sum ​​up: there is a Article I read talks about baptism where he says that “any” Christian has authority to baptize in case of rejection our desire to be baptized ….. well I go to grano.estoy thinking about my son who loves jehova but I ‘ve incharge explain everything I ‘ve learned conuste brother robert me and the question arises whether a given moment I could baptize my son if rejected by the elders … I appreciate your answer or forum members who want to contribute …. from Bogota Colombia with love … my son sends greetings. Sorry for the translation , google does not help

    • e.v.g

      El hermano Roberto ha dicho que la watchtower es la autoridad por el momento, asi que cualquiera que se quiera bautizar tendrá que hacerlo bajo los términos de la misma.

      Brother Robert has been saying that the watchtower is the authority for the moment, so if someone wants to get baptized that will be under the terms of the same.

      • Andres Felipe

        Muchas gracias hermano ….muy equilibrado

      • we should follow the bibles pattern set by first century Christains. 1-Corinthians 1:10-15
        seems to me the WT is having baptism done in its organizational name, is it not? although i guess still in Jehovah and Jesus name. Jehovah’s recognition is what counts. ive heard that contract talk given on stage more then once and its lame. the division is the truth, since the WT is not allowing people to be baptized because it will not recognize the truth from those following Christ exposing the lie, then its authority is restrecting the truth to those “It should be done, for we must carry out all that God requires.” Matt 3:15

        Acts 8:36? answer – the Watchtower

        • e.v.g

          What a great irony

          • yeah sorry for my poor grammer trying to get my thoughts across but glad you get it

      • Andres Felipe

        Pero tengo la duda …si mi hijo no cree en la fantasía de 1914. ..tendría que mentir para poder bautizar . No?

  • Acts 5:19. 12:7. 16:26

  • Burt Reynolds

    ‘No one can cause us to compromise and be ensnared by cowardly fear.’ As if the comments here do not reflect fear, yet remarkably, it is a considered fear and by that I mean a fear with its roots in understanding. How dare the watchtower put more pressure on the flock by suggesting that to feel fear is cowardly! Without fear, we are fools and fear is not cowardly, it is how we respond to fear that may be termed as cowardly. And yet, as this article shows, the watchtower does not equip the flock with the tools to face fear with understanding, and to hide its own shame, as always, it lays the blame for this failure with the flock. Thus if one fails, they are termed as cowardly and the responsibility of the watchtower is hidden because they sent their flock into the war without insight, without the knowledge of Jehovah, without the true sense of his love. Thus, when or if they fail as we know so many will, the watchtower remains blameless. ‘It is not I is it?’ Said judas. John ch.16v23. And in that day Ye shall ask me nothing. Verily verily I say unto you, whatsoever Ye shall ask the father in my name, he will give it you….v32. Behold the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that Ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet, I am not alone, because the father is with me. Our brothers who sleep their time away in the congregations are not aware that the time has yet to Come. How much more of a fearsome trial will it be for them who contend, not only with lies, but the realisation that they have been lied to. And then, they have to go forth and make their decisions alone, without the armour that they should have had. They are being led, they know not where. We know what is to come, but our fear is simply not knowing what our fate will be. Why should we care about this before we are required to!? Do we care so much for this life that we should fear death so much, knowing the promise that we have? We are not living for ourselves at this time. For the brothers who are asleep, they will not know either the manner of their fate, believing the lie, or where they will go, or to whom. We must do all we can to help them and not let ourselves be weighed down, but always remember that, for in that moment, Jehovah will give us what we ask.

    • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista

      Wow…that was powerful. Sometimes when I listen to Roberts commentaries he says something along the lines “if you’re really feeling nervy, write a letter to bethel asking such and such, and then bethel will inform your elders and then you can have a conversation and hopefully teach them something.”

      Since my “awakening” (pre awakening I was pretty lazy by JW standards….low hours, preoccupied with day to day living, not very studious or curious with my bible because my entire life I was told we had all the answers. Being told you “have the truth” breeds complacency IMO) I think of Roberts words and I have this nagging itch to really make a difference….to help people WAKE UP! My ego also likes drama. For me personally (as an active witness) I know that writing bethel would only point the hornets to my little corner.

      For active witnesses on this site I think our best plan of action is to be as loving (genuine….not the manipulative kind some show to new ones to lure them in) as possible. Build as much trust with your congregation as possible so that when things do start crumbling people will realize they can come to you!
      I’m so thankful I can safely blow off some steam on this site (because showing love to people who want their bottle can be frustrating!) and truly be myself with y’all.
      For those who aren’t “in” the congregation, perhaps writing letters to HQ is a smart thing?? I dunno.

      • Srecko Sostar

        Hi! Interesting thought: “Build as much trust with your congregation as possible so that when things do start crumbling people will realize they can come to you!” From this arise several questions.
        About persecution. WT GB bring rules, from Bible, from God, from own interpretations, from need of Legal position or other reasons. They caused suffering for members in various field of everyday life. Question of blood and variations inside rules on that until now, with yes and no rule in the first period, transplantation of human organs and also flip-flop teachings. Question of “neutrality”- various sort. Military service, and than civil service under military or civil authorities. All that “warm-cold” game with various and opposite interpretations and rules about what is right and what is not are done so much harm to JW people. Take Malawi and Mexico as illustration.
        I spent 3 years in prison for “neutrality” in ex Yugoslavia. Military or prison, school is good anyway :)))
        I have choose different way about WT JWorg. Here is my Letter.

        1. To Society Watch Tower, Watchtower and corporations
        2. To Jehovah’s Witnesses and all assemblies
        3. To all whom this concern

        Declaration on termination of membership to a religious community of Jehovah’s Witnesses

        I was baptized in 1977 at the age of 17, then a minor. But, in good faith I answered the following two questions just before baptism, which is symbolized my dedication to God in terms of the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses religion.
        At that time (before the change of June 1 1985) questions have read as follows;

        A) Have you repented of your sins and converted, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
        B) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

        Since I have over decades closely followed the changes in various aspects of activity of this religion, I noticed some frequent collisions (1 John 4:1; 1 Th 5:21). It is visible in: a) the content of the various interpretations; b) in the theory and practice of action in everyday life issues. Overview of many historical aspects of the spiritual heritage, which the organization has, since its inception in the 19th century, left to its members-followers, and wants to cover it up, revise and incorrect display, is astounding. Who wants to drink a water from a cup in which there is a single drop of dangerous substances?

        The purpose of my statement is not to explain doctrine and practices of society and the board of directors, who are disturbed my conscience and reasoning within the love, faith, knowledge and understanding that I feel and I have to God and Jesus Christ and to the people, so I will taxatively single out only a few of them (Rom 14:4). These are obvious example, on the one hand, theological acrobatics from the main church body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and on the other hand, their dishonesty and practice in which one they are learns, and other they are works;

        1) Confusing conceptions about their own identity (Who shared spiritual food? One servant, all 144 000, a composite body or the governing body …,)

        2) Pragmatism in changing dogmatic interpretations before the change was “firmly biblical established”, such as a series of explanations about the “generation” …,

        3) Speculation about the meaning of biblical statements and how they should be understood. More than once the revised interpretation were in style of YES-NO-YES-NO; then this year’s “changed approach to the interpretation of reports from the Word of God” …,
        4) Switching of responsibility from the governing body and their representatives on the ordinary believers in respect of the decisions and attitudes that members should be carried out, when it becomes apparent that they were endangered spiritually, mentally and literally health of fellow believers (eg, multiple expectations of Armageddon, Malawi and Mexico of the 1970s, questions about blood, juvenile members / Bulgaria /, neutrality …,)

        5) Co-operation and association with political organizations such as the UN and the OSCE.

        6) Increasingly open calls for financial donations and contributions to the funds of the corporation.

        7) Careless and unkind treatment of victims of pedophilia within the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses

        Regardless of how, as collective or personal, members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses will treat me after this letter of resignation, considering the worldwide-known practice of ignoring and avoiding (shunning) that Jehovah’s Witnesses apply to all who are outside of their religion (“worldly” people, dissociated and disfellowshiped) – I with fully conscious and reason declare still this; My relationship with the people / persons in the Jehovah’s Witness religion and those who are not, is based on the words of Jesus; “Love your neighbor as yourself”; “Love those who hate you”; “Whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them.”

        I expecting from you, that any kind of information which is stored anywhere, in connection with me and has my full name, such as personal files, or any other files you immediately destroy!

        Zagreb, July 27/2015 Srećko Šoštar ————-

        Verified by notary public

        • Volcanic

          wow, Srecko, powerful!

          • Srecko Sostar

            Good evening! Thanks for comment. I just go through some of yours and others people past comments on various article here. Interesting. It is good to collect various information’s, and on other hand that can confused us or more worst to frightened us. Be calm as much is possible, global future is in God hand and He will do His will. Do not be in fear of any man. Or their “position”. Stand for yourself and those who you love. :))

        • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista

          We all have our own style for sure. I hear you brother. We all need to keep relying on Jehovah and following Jesus. I wonder how many letters like this HQ has received in the last 9 months? WT should put #of disassociated in the next yearbook. (They won’t of course)

          • Srecko Sostar

            Thanks for kind words Alexandra!
            In the Yearbook? hehe yes, that will be the day. Just recently i put such thoughts in one e-mail to a “friend”. He stopped to be that in spite the fact how he, as he told me, saw many of “things” before 20-30 years. But after i intensifying this topic of exact numbers of disfellowshiped, dissociated, those who came back, those who does not, reasons, or for what “wrongdoings” they are out org. my “friend” was become angry on me. He is in fact some kind of dissident JW :))) Like perhaps some number of JW also, no offense to anyone.
            Nice to hear you! Bye!

            2016-07-25 18:25 GMT+02:00 Disqus :

          • they should

        • your english is broken bit i get the jist of it

        • After the removal of that wicked slave, God will bring back into his fold the many of his sheep who were scattered and lost on account of the wicked shepherds: “‘I myself shall feed my sheep, and I myself shall make them lie down,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘The lost one I shall search for, and the dispersed one I shall bring back, and the broken one I shall bandage and the ailing one I shall strengthen, but the fat one and the strong one I shall annihilate. I shall feed that one with judgment.'” (Ezek. 34:2-16) Then the congregation will again function as it did in the first century, and we will see God’s holy spirit in action upon his holy people as it was back then.

          • Beverly kenyon

            Those words are beautiful Joseph, I hope Srecko find some comfort from them. That man’s story broke my heart! I just kept thinking about him and how he spent three long years in prison! Oh! how he must’ve leant on Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ to help get him through that ordeal. And then to get back his freedom only to be treated by people related to him in the faith, like he was of no worth…I just can’t comprehend that…even though I know about the weeds! I hope he stays close to Brother King’s site and the people on it to get that support and to know he’s not on his own regarding such treatment.

            • Thinking

              That why ones like you and Joesph and others need to go back….and balance out the weeds and look after brothers like this …we have a work to do…when one has a better understanding of things..it brings responsibility,…to those that don’t understand..even if it is their own fault and willful ignorance on their part….It took a miracle from Jesus to appear to Paul to bring him to his senses…but Jesus saw his heart and his potential.
              We do not have to wake everybody up…..but be there when they see this confusion and if guided by Jehovahs Holy Spirit ..perhaps slowly explain a scripture or two…..it will be a gradual work I am thinking.
              I hope your doing well Beverly….just remember the weeds will be there till right before the end…just as Jesus allowed Judas to remain amongst his apostles till his last night…..but with his Holy Spirit Anything can be achieved….I am indeed personally learning patience and humbleness …obviously I neededto….as some times I have a big mouth …?hah
              Sis xx

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Sister Thinking, well it looks like I’m back…went to the meeting yesterday..it went ok…it’s a nice little congregation…Broughton cong…an inner city cong, so very diverse. Hope you’re doing well and thriving. I’m also having to learn humbleness as I have a problem with people who have attitude and who think more of themselves than they should…I want to have a go at them…so I’m having to zip it and just smile even though inside I’m seething and thinking, who do you think you are??!! As brought out in the study yesterday, I’m still a work in progress. Lol. Love the points you brought out in your post and will try and remember some of it. There is one witness who I think might have it in for me as when she saw me I got a smirk and a bad vide from her, not even a hello..and she knows me. If it’s just that she doesn’t like me, well I don’t care as that’s her problem but it might be another reason. She studies with a longtime friend of mine and I’ve told him of everything I’ve learned here on EWatchman, I’ve even printed out some of the articles for him to read, then I had to back off as he started mentioning false prophets and then I thought I don’t want to wreck his faith and confuse him with the things I now know also I bumped into her brother who’s a witness also and I mentioned a little bit of things from EWatchman and I don’t know if they’ve told her of the things I told them! My friend is making progress studying with her and her husband and they’re the right witnesses for him as his mother was a witness and knew them very well and for years so they’re doing a good job with and I can’t call her for that! But I hope she hasn’t go me marked as she’s an old school witness. Just don’t want that problem whilst I’m making my way back but ill deal with as I know a lot more now and what’s behind it and won’t be taking it personally. Once again Sister Thinking thank you for all your consistent support, it means a lot whilst I’m making these baby steps back into Jehovahs house. X

            • Craig

              Hi Beverly, it’s very encouraging to here of ones returning to the meetings. It can take a great amount of determination and courage for what may seem to be baby steps, it surely doesn’t go unnoticed when ones love for Jehovah and truth is shown.
              Your effort is to be commended.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Craig, Thank you very much for those uplifting words…that was lovely. Finding this site and interacting with some spiritually clever people, lots of whom I admire and think a lot of has helped me to get to the point I’m at…going back to the Kingdom Hall coupled with the fact that I’m only doing what I should be as a witness for Jehovah. The bible talks about a time for everything and it looks like it was the right time for me. Also feeling jealous of seeing people going to church, especially the Muslim man who I see regularly standing at the bus stop in all weather going to the mosque really used to guilt trip me….I have the truth of God’s word yet I was staying away….I always felt bad. At least now I won’t have that hanging over me! Once again thank you for taking the time to send me that encouring post.

            • sally

              Hi Beverly I am glad your first trip back to the KH went smoothly. It is so very difficult even for me (just a study not baptised) to keep quiet and tow the line now. I am restarting my study after about 5 weeks of not having one making excuses etc. I am going to meeting on Sunday, I haven’t been the past 2 weeks but did go to all three days of the convention even though I had been exposed to Roberts site by then. It is encouraging to me to hear of people like you going back. It helps enormously as if others can manage this situation then I can to. I am learning an amazing amount here and try to read one article per day, however it takes hours as I have to read and re read about 10 times and read all the comments to understand properly. I guess my study sister will scold me for not paying enough attention to Jehovah’s word over the past few weeks – if only she knew!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Sally, really lovely to finally “meet” and speak to you. Thank for your encouragement. Yeah, my first trip back went smoothly..its just the rest now! Lol. If you’re an over sharer like me you need to read Sister Thinking’s advice in her post to me. Very sensible and cautious advice. You did amazingly well to attend all of the convention as they’re gruelling…I learnt to sleep with my eyes open…three days is overkill! You’re right, it’s amazing all the knowledge we’re learning here on Brother King’s site…personally I’m totally addicted to it (but I’m ocd anyway), and I also love the input from everyone here as well…I’ve learnt so much! You now know more about Jehovah’s word than the witness you’re studying with!! But you have to learn the elementary stuff to get to stage of being baptised when you feel ready not being pressured. An anointed witness by the the name of perimeno who has his own site by that name and he endorses Brother King’s site as well has written a good article on baptism..try and check it out…it’s very interesting and might settle your anxiety about getting baptised. Personally, I think you’re doing fantastically well and I love the connection between you and Volcanic…how you found the truth through her and took it further by listening to her and with an open mind arrived here on EWatchman…I just love your story. You’re better than you think you are…I just know you’ll get there! Your love for Jehovah, his Son…our King and wanting to learn everything about Jehovah’s purposes says a lot. You’ll have glitches and hurdles to get over…no one is perfect. Just keep going because YOU want to not because someone is dictating the pace for you. If I can do it Sally, trust me you can do it too…I’m sure I had to be the worst student going. The Lockharts who I studied with deserve the Nobel Peace prize…I was a horror!! But the best advice is always talk to our Heavenly Father. He will support you if you just pour out all your feelings to him. Once again Sally, it was really lovey to get to talk with you.

            • sally

              Yes really lovely to meet you to Beverly! Hopefully one day we get to meet in person! I read Sister Thinking’s advice and yes your right very sensible and cautious. I intend to tell no one outside of this group anything. I just can’t. I don’t know that many people in the congregation I go to anyway as I am new, but my intuition tells me to keep silent and generally my intuition is trustworthy. Yes the convention was long but I was very curious to go, I had only been subjected to this site for a week or so when I went, but it most certainly had an impact. The video’s about the GT would of normally had my eyes popping out of my head but instead I just felt nothing accept sadness at how things are being portrayed to the masses. Still, I am hugely times a million grateful for this new knowledge I am getting here. I was struggling with my feelings , I believed 100 percent, but I had growing concerns and issues and was praying to Jehovah for forgiveness as I felt it was me, then bam here I am! I will check out that other site (as if I haven’t got enough to read and listen to here!) thank you. Yes Volcanic (Annie) is responsible for all my spiritual dilemmas lol! I didn’t have any at all until I “met” her! I just hope she has landed where she is staying now I don’t think I can take much more! I have read lots of your posts Beverly and feel that if you can do it then I can to. I need to keep learning, making changes inline with the org but using discernment. All this advice I read and the experiences of others is invaluable right now. x

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yeah, that would be great to meet up in person…who knows. I think with all of us it’s time…there’s not enough hours in the day. It’s pretty sad, we as adults have to resort to skullduggery concerning how we worship God. But it’s best to be discreet and private regarding our association here on this site…it’s annoying having to resort to such tactics but it’s not a real hardship when you consider what we will be facing shortly when the whole shebang collapses as we’re learning about daily on this site. Absolutely loving the article on Jericho. I’m like you, I sometimes read articles twice and I take notes as well. Don’t know if those conventions are an American thing…as they’re big on conventions or they’re based on the festivals we read about in the Hebrew Scriptures, but I used to find them hard going. But it did teach discipline in that I can sit quietly for hours. Lol. What matters Sally, is that you’re drawing close to Jehovah the more you study, then it’s up to you what you do with that knowledge. You’re in a unique position in that you’re also getting educated here with real bible truths and that’s a real advantage…so at some time whenever you’ll have to commit and take it to the next level. That’s why I suggested Perimeno’s site as he went right into it about baptism, but I’m sure Brother King has also covered that subject. You’ll get there Sally. But I do understand how you feel and all the emotions involved. There’s lots of support here for you and from amazing knowledgeable bible scholars sometimes I’m in awe and feel really dense and thick! Lol. Also, you already have your friend Volcanic here with you…I landed here on my own even though I’d been lurking in the shadows for a long time without getting involved but I felt I knew everyone who was on the site. Soon the time is coming when we’ll all be faced with the question of whose side are we on? All I know is that I want to be on Jehovah’s side and I want to do the right thing when those demons are up in everyone’s face as Leighton Williams (I think that’s his name), said in one of his posts. I don’t want to be a pretendy witness, I want to be true. I’m making my baby steps back, even though in my heart I never left Jehovah, and you’re also making yours..so we’re both on our little journey. At least we know our goal! X

            • Volcanic

              hahahaaa, yup, Sally, I have landed where I am staying now & not going anywhere else, in fact I don’t even go to Perimeno’s site as all I need is right here 🙂 xxx

            • Joe Dman

              Hi Sally. Glad to hear you’ve restarted your study. I thought I was the only one that had to re-read articles. I haven’t been commenting lately but when I did it may have took me an hour to make an in depth comment. I’d re-read it before sending and often make changes first. I have a terrible memory on some things and if I want to quote a scrip. then your looking at another 10 minutes to find it. I’m not sure what to blame it on but I’m just happy to have found this site cause it’s not how intelligent you are to know it’s the truth, it’s Jehovah’s mercy. What a blessing to be able to experience what a true congregation of Jehovah’s people should be like. You are an encouragement to be putting forth the effort that you are.

            • sally

              Hi Joe thank you for your encouraging posts and glad there is more than just me that faff’s about with the reading and writing! I just can’t see the point of moving on to read something else until I have “got” what I am reading at the time. Its not so much my memory that is a problem its more that I am still learning the bible. I can remember scriptures in terms of quotes quite well now but ask me where it is and I have no idea! I am not beating myself up about that its a big old book! a year ago, I didnt think I would ever ever get to have any idea of where the books in the bible are, I still don’t know where a lot of them are but I have most definitely improved hugely so I know studying and using the bible does work it just takes time. Yes this site is most definitely a blessing both in terms of information that Robert gives and how logically he writes, and also the people here. It;s like a little secret congregation (I like this one better!)

            • Beverly kenyon

              Sorry Craig, the word is encouraging not encouring. Lol. Damn spellchecker!

            • Thinking

              How encouraging you are sis…you are really going out of your comfort zone…you are there for Jehovah and your brothers and sisters and not because of habit or to be accepted as a good sister….You are there for the RIGHT reasons..and Jehovah knows that. Also you are right..it is easier because now we understand more..but I’m afraid I seem to learn best by making mistakes…that’s not wise on my part..but I was so eager to share what I learnt…but I did a lot of damage to myself and I think to others…I have found it very hard to get a balance..but I’m getting there..and I am at more peace with everything….
              there are two scriptures Imhad to learn and take to heart…and if I practice them I should be okay…id like to share them with you…but they may not be the ones for you…you may find others that work better for you, as we are all so different…

              MICAH 7:7 ..Do not put your trust in a confidential friend.From her who is lying in your bosom guard the openings of your mouth.For a son is despising a father a daughter is rising up against her mother in law, a daughter in law against her mother in law , a mans enemies are the members of his own household.

              This is very good advice as I have already been betrayed by someone who knows what we know..he introduced me to ewatchman and the book crisis of concience ….and then when onto tell others in the cong I was on apostate sites and reading apostate material….he has since disassociated himself since..he did that to save his own skin.
              Of course this devasted me..but I am much stronger now and trust nobody as that scripture says…
              The only ones we can truly trust are Jehovah and Jesus..I do not even trust my own self.
              So be careful sis…we are in a war against wicked spirits and false brothers.
              After all..not one of the apostles picked up on Judas being the betrayer….so how will we …the weeds look just like us and they are very close to us as their roots are mingled in with ours..and even the Angels could not untangle them without ripping up the wheat…so how on earth will we detect them…..

              The second scripture helped me with my big mouth..haha..and Joeseph…this will help you also so you don’t go flipping up the tables at your next meeting..hahaha???

              For the life of me I cannot find it but I will quote it

              The Prudent one will keep silent as the times are evil.

              Sorry I couldn’t find exactly where it is…but that helped me to be wise in my use of our knowledge…soon I guess we will speak openly..lets hope so hey….

              Joe has my email sis..by all means feel free to contact me if you wish….and that bit about seeing that man Of faith going to his meeting even in the rain…that helped me too..thanks for sharing that..
              Big hug
              Sis thinking

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Sister Thinking, Thank you for that good advice and those words of wisdom. I will take on board all of it as I tend to over share. I know that witnesses grass each other up to elders as I’ve heard it firsthand….setting the scene for when during the GT they will be betraying each other to the authorities as Jesus told us in God’s word. Lovely! (Said in sarcastic voice). You were also on the receiving end of that betrayal by that two faced cowardly man..that was unbelievable. He’s not normal! Why would a person do that!?!? Still laughing about our famous table flipper, Joseph, but on a serious note, Joseph has every right to flip tables after what him and his family have been subjected to! They’re lucky it’s just tables he’s flipping.lol. Thank you Sister Thinking for walking shoulder to shoulder with me whilst I’m baby stepping my way back to Jehovah’s house also I’ll bear in mind the email thing. When Satan’s cheap nasty imitation world is wrapped up and in the bag and we come out as survivors I will be seeking you out in Jehovah’s tent that he’s promised to spread over mankind in the future. Thank you Sister Thinking. X

            • Volcanic

              well done you, Beverly 🙂

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Volcanic, great to hear from you as usual. Thanks for that kind thought. Hope everything is good with you and your girls. I’m just in the process of posting your lovely friend Sally…it was a real nice surprise to hear from her.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Also meant to say how I love the new photo you’ve put up. You look like some bombshell disco queen!! Love it!

            • Srecko Sostar

              Hi Beverly! and to all kind people here! :)) Thanks for your feeling of compassion!
              All Wt theology is, from my perspective, “on ice”. Moral principles of Jesus teachings and what we have inside us as gift from God, our conscience is/are something that have to be in first place. As Marcus Aurelius said, “All we hear is an opinion, not a fact. All we see is a perspective, not the truth.” God bless you :))

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Srecko, Wow, it’s fantastic to hear from you! I hope you’re ok and not too sad. Yeah, that’s true…it’s all on ice. Ha! And that ties in neatly with that quote from that guy, Marcus Aurelius. I don’t know who he is but when I get a free moment I will google him. He sounds like a philosopher from the Roman Empire or maybe even a Roman soldier! I love anything to do with those times…so fascinating and nothing has really changed from then, it’s the same sort of set up…and they had their technology too. So no change there! Keep going Srecko. You’ve proved your stripes for Jehovah. Didn’t Jesus say that you’d be persecuted just as he was…I read that scripture the other day and can’t give an exact quote…so you’re in good company Srecko.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Srecko, I googled Marcus Aurelius and he was a Roman emperor no less! He had children, one with a really brilliant name…Commodus…I like that! I read his full quote…very interesting. Sorry Srecko, but I’m not a bit cultured or well read but I’m always up for learning. Hope you’re alright and well.

            • Srecko Sostar

              Good evening Beverly! You intrigued me with “Hiya”. That is new for me. :)) i went on google and find in Urban dictionary: “A battlecry a ninja yells when the ninja is ready to attack.” hehehe you attack me?…. but I wasn’t scared :))))))) Nice to hear from you.
              Do not feel that need to apologize me, i am also not well cultured :))), but learning!
              Sorry for my English, some is from school and some is from google translator, ahahaha.
              Hope you are fine and well.
              Here is some hot summer, atmosphere pressure, hard time, today is raining. Greetings from Zagreb, Croatia, Europe! 🙂

              2016-08-10 18:28 GMT+02:00 Disqus :

            • Beverly kenyon

              I won’t say Hiya again Srecko in case you think I’m going to attack you like a ninja. Lol. It’s how we say hello here in Manchester, England. Between your English from school and Google translator your English is pretty good because I know I could not speak your language! At least you’re having a go at English. Yeah, our weather here isn’t clever either! It’s raining and dull…this so called summer weather has been pretty freakish! Good to hear from you!

            • Srecko Sostar

              Do not give up… from summer. Or from learning Croatian :))) lol

  • LW

    When people experience in the world what is termed an “awakening”, that is they’re finally having come to the realization that not only are things very wrong with this world as we know it, but there are sinister forces behind it, there is always an instant jolt to their consciousness.

    An article called the tuning out of reality, “cognitive dissonance”.

    Well, in the same manner, it is apparent that at least for JWs, at least those who understand the nature of what is coming, they have also continued to awaken spiritually.

    But what is the purpose behind this “Awakening”? Well, having perused countless articles on various alternative media sites, I can say with certainty that while a few people are genuine in their search for truth, the majority are already in lockstep with the overall agenda of TPTB, whether their purpose is to put out info supporting a certain viewpoint, or to simply pump out pure disinformation.
    In other words, it is simply to acclimate your mind or CONSCIOUSNESS, to what has already been planned by TPTB. As we have clearly seen, this has been in the planning for ages, so why reveal such information now? The answer is simple…because the time has finally arrived.

    Just as Jehovah is speeding things up, so too Satan, who is looking on and seeing this, is ramping up HIS agenda.

    • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista

      Sorry, what is TPTB? ….lol…just got it: The Powers That Be.

    • Burt Reynolds

      TPTB? Sorry, I’m dreadful at anachronisms.

      • LW

        The Powers that Be

      • 1914for100Alex

        As others have mentioned, it does indeed stand for “the powers that be” aka (also known as) the Illuminati and Reptilians…ok, I’d better stop. I have a feeling Robert came back early because he saw his site turning into an episode of Pokèmon meets Preppers hosted by Alex Jones LOL (laughing out loud) 😉

  • 1914for100Alex

    The only thing that comes to mind that could get everybody that upset at the Witnesses is refusal to join the military in the event of a massive war. Especially here in the U.S. if the draft was reinstated. As divided as we are it’s hard to picture everyone pulling together like we did on 9/11, but something bigger than that just might do it.

    • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista

      Stumbled (legitimate or not) witnesses and apostates really do seem to be rallying….and some of their points are compelling…even to people who could care less about JWs. The negative frequency seems to be amplifying….and so so sadly it is dragging Jehovah’s name in the mud.

      • 1914for100Alex

        I agree that Jehovah’s name is definitely being dragged through the mud, mainly due to the child abuse scandal. No doubt that will play a part in all of this. I’ve wondered, though, if that would be enough to bring about being hated “by all the nations on account of my name.” It hasn’t happened so far, and it would be pretty hypocritical of a single Catholic to react harsher than they did when “their guys” were doing the same thing. Something tells me it will be something other than that, although it’s admittedly hard to picture people resorting to murder under my scenario of war refusal. Who knows though? If a new sense of patriotism were to sweep the nation, coupled with desperation, people may just take things into their own hands to voice their displeasure. I wonder if Canada will take me 🙂

        • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista

          Also, Jehovah’s name is being dragged through the mud because the extreme shunning practices and oral traditions that seem to get more Pharisaical every year.

          The hatred may come from many different sources: apostates, nationalists, the gay pride fever, and simply because what’s right is wrong and what’s up is down. Being a true Christian is becoming more and more unpopular.

          • 1914for100Alex

            I remember reading my first extreme shunning stories. I thought to myself “this is probably just ex JW’s trying to get back at the org”. And then I read more…and more…and more. So many that it was impossible that they were all lying. We were taught not to associate with former witnesses, which is fine if they’re not family and they’re trying to drag you down with them. I get all that. But refusing to let grandparents meet their grandchildren and things like that? It doesn’t get more un-Christian if you ask me.

            As for the other things you mentioned, I feel like it’s opposite day every day lately.

    • LW

      Nothing like a crisis to pull people together..

    • Joe Dman

      I listen to a lot of live talk radio while I’m working. The hosts are always sayin “no vote is a vote for so and so” Both sides say it as though there’s no other choice. You have to have a political leaning. Many conversations i have start with politics and it’s a great way to segue into a talk about Christian neutrality.
      BTW, I heard mention of a book on first century Christians and their being politically neutral. I’d like to read it so i can have a basis for my arguments. Anyone know one. I think Robert may have mentioned it.

  • Paul describes the situation we could expect among God’s own people during the time of the end in these words: “Remember this! In the last days there will be many troubles, because people will love themselves, love money, brag, and be proud. They will say evil things against others and will not obey their parents or be thankful or be the kind of people God wants. They will not love others, will refuse to forgive, will gossip, and will not control themselves. They will be cruel, will hate what is good, will turn against their friends, and will do foolish things without thinking. They will be conceited, will love pleasure instead of God, and will act as if they serve God but will not have his power. (2 Timothy 3:1-5, NCV) The prevalence of such individuals within God’s household would cause God’s faithful servants much suffering, but for our encouragement Jesus made this promise: “He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.” (Matt. 24:10-13) How could it be possible, though, for Satan to have such great power over God’s people? Jesus condemned the religious leaders of his day as being “from your father the Devil,” because it was really the Devil who exercised the greater influence over them. (John 8:44) Their dominance over the people prevented these from believing in Jesus. Because of submitting to their leaders instead of Jehovah they had in reality become followers of men, and no miracle on Jesus’ part could convince them otherwise.

    • Joe Dman

      I’ve always noticed the aire of superiority some exhibit. As i walk in the hall and look around it’s as though you can guess who will have difficulty accepting the new reality that is to come. It’s as though they’re doing you a favor by acknowledging you. As for me it’s apparent to them I’m not wrapping myself in the Watchtower blanket so they view me as weak and although I’m not df’d I’m still viewed as bad association. A brother even told me once that since I’m not reporting hours that some may be apprehensive about associating in functions outside the meetings. I could see his point at the time but now i wonder if it didn’t contribute to distancing myself and eventually getting df’d. Looking back at how my wife, friends, and myself were treated, they have a lot to answer for.

      • Count your blessings Joe Joe, for not fitting the jw mold. My whole life & family was treated this way for not conforming to the ridged rules (I refused to count my time, felt it was unscriptural ). Used to make me heart broken but now it makes me feel thankful because it opened up a whole bunch of new insights that we might not of searched for had we been respected. “Take my yoke upon YOU and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls. For my yoke is kindly and my load is light.” (Matt. 11:29,30) If people no longer find refreshment in worshiping Jehovah, because your load has become burdensome and heavy, it is not the yoke that Jesus has offered us.

        • Joe Dman

          After getting re- instated i mentioned turning in time as not being scriptural but then he countered with saying that when Jesus sent his apostles out they returned and “reported” to him. I guess. Well if he asks if i started reporting my time I’ll tell him that I feel bad about when i use to count it we’d drop off a magazine at a laundromat and start then. My conscience bothers me for that and so now I’m paying it back 7 fold.
          Also the work I do i follow electric lines and stop at each pole. They go across country to people’s houses witnesses only dream of having access to. Many people come out to see what I’m doing. If we start conversing i will mention religion to see if there’s interest. I spent over an hour a couple of days ago talking to someone who was interested. I get paid by the pole and it’s my business so I’m not short changing anyone. But given their Idea Of starting time, i should be able to report the first house i go to. I’ll leave a pamphlet on the gate at the first one. I can report 40 or so hours a week. Awesome. I can Pioneer. I’m glad we had this conversation.

          • Funny stuff, we had a Louisiana Cajun brother we like to call Jumbo gumbo !
            That is exactly what he did, he got moved up the ranks so fast all the way to PO.
            Slickest untrustworthy man you could ever want to meet.

            • Joe Dman

              Do you think it would be proper to reason that if we are to do as our (religious) leaders among us tell us, as respects field service reports in this case, that we should include Robert’s understanding in the mix. Seeing as how we recognize that he is of the anointed and he is boldly proclaiming the truths and giving the warnings that he makes clear are in God’s word, should we not give first consideration to these revealed Bible truths. If the established governing body had listened to Robert and come to the obvious conclusion that Jehovah is giving him the correct understanding of the scriptures and they listened and changed their direction and lightened the load they place upon God’s people, we probably would not be required to report hours, pamphlets, bathroom breaks, etc. JK. Just a thought. I’m still trying to justify not reporting.
              It’s not as though we’re making him our leader, we just see that all of our leaders should understand God’s word as clearly as he does. I realize that prophecy doesn’t allow for them to come to a clear understanding, but since the clear understanding is given us by one of those who will be ruling with Christ, we should be able to keep a clear conscience while balancing our service to Jehovah.
              It’s also my understanding that some of you have pretty much already come to this understanding, and it’s not bothering your conscience like it has been mine. It’s just something I’ve been praying about and as is often the case I get an answer. That was my answer.
              Like everything we do or don’t do, it is a matter of conscience and our faith in Christ and Jehovah and knowing them is what will contribute to establishing that conscience.

          • 1914for100Alex

            I like the way you guys think! You remind me of the “fun” brothers at the hall when I was a kid. You know, the ones that would actually laugh and didn’t walk around with a serious look on their face at all times. It’s sad that even as a kid I could have probably pointed out who was in good standings and who wasn’t. Maybe I’m just good at picking up on things, but that’s not something a little kid should be contemplating.

          • then continue to report to Jesus. its called prayer. its Jehovah that makes it grow. does he need tabs on NAH’s, RV’s or your hours in the field? whats the WT going to do, hand Jehovah everyones time come tribulation?
            Isaiah 28:10

            • 1914for100Alex

              I heard the Witnesses with the most hours get first dibs at petting the now docile lions in the New System.

            • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista


            • dont get me wrong, its good to keep personal track of things and have good schedule keeping and good to know how much/far the truth is being made known

          • Joe Dman

            Right after I posted that I went back to work. Best day in years. I’m following a line through thorny mesquites with cactus and very slow going. Got stickers in every limb of my body. I didn’t get near what I had hoped. I came up to a house and the lady came out. She was very knowledgeable concerning the Bible. We talked for about an hour and a half and the subject of talking instead of working came up. Funny, I had just posted about that. Of course I told her that I have no boss but that when it comes to discussing Jehovah, I’ll trade a million hours of work. She was very knowledgeable and showed a great deal of interest. And she even mentioned God first. So I gave her this website. I explained it was oriented toward JW’s beliefs but if she had questions they could be answered here. I think that’s a good reason that as soon as Robert recognizes someone who is not willing to learn and just wants to promote there own ideas should be blocked so that someone searching for Jehovah is not confused by them.
            She believes that we lived previously in a spirit form and that at some point, conception, that we are put into that body. I agreed that life begins at conception but as far as when we also become a spirit, I couldn’t really give her an answer other than it just develops as we develop. And I explained it wasn’t a spirit that lived before or lives on, it’s just God’s memory of us. She brought up the scripture that says God knew you before you were formed. Jer 1:5. So how do you explain that? I tried by saying that God knows all things from the beginning to the end before they happen but I couldn’t remember the scripture to back that up. Anyone? I may run in to her again, but she does know a couple of witnesses from this area that come by occasionally. I go home on the weekends and its hard to make weekday meetings when I’m out of town so I don’t know the local JW’s. Maybe I should go. But like I told her, if I told them what I’m telling you about Christ coming soon, they’d probably fall over because they believe he already came. I did emphasize that JW’s are the only ones that teach basic Bible truths. So it was a great day. Thought I’d share it. Gotta go fill out my time card now…NOT.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I should hazard a guess that it means that as the creator, Jehovah would know the outcome of a pregnancy between two people. Put simply, we know that flour, eggs and sugar make a cake. Well, it’s not too far a stretch to think that Jehovah would know what would be produced in terms of DNA from two people. Insofar as knowing the beginning from the end, the concept of time and dimensions, I’ll leave that to the lawmaker, but the idea that time is static always intrigues me. Have you ever thought why we do not grow old mentally in terms of how we perceive ourselves? And for that matter, why we are not concerned with death, knowing that we do die? There are so many wonders to come to know. When I get my brain back, I’m going to find out.

          • https://youtu.be/K4sx3wT08a4

            Tabs are kept on everyone, counting them worthy or not. A sheep or a goat!

            Here is my reply!!


            • Joe Dman

              Hey Joseph. I watched a couple of this guys vids last night from the link you posted earlier. I’ll watch this one tonight. Does this guy know ttatt? Well, he’s full of revealing information. Seems like he could readily accept the explanation of 2 Thes 2:1-12. I wonder if he’s been to Robert’s site. I suppose I’ll find a bunch of this out if I keep watching his vids. I’ve been doing some posting on a JW FB page. It’s frustrating to say the least so I’m backing off some. I know that the time to reveal ttatt is yet to come and it probably won’t be our place to reveal, but to support Christ’s brothers as they do while being persecuted, in prison, hungry, etc. That’s where we come in.

          • Bklyn Kevin

            When he countered you and said Jesus sent his apostles out and they returned and “reported” – your friend failed to recognize / mention what the apostles had reported back to Jesus and in fact if you closely read the accounts the apostles didn’t mention the reporting of time however they did report their activities to Jesus.

            Luke 10:17
            Then the 70 returned with joy, saying: “Lord, even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name.

            Luke 9:
            10 When the apostles returned, they
            (reported to Jesus all they had done.)
            With that he took them along and withdrew privately into a city called Beth·saʹi·da.

            Mark 6:
            30 The apostles gathered around Jesus and
            (reported to him all the things they had done) and taught.

            However please take note that in Mark 6:31 it does mention that the apostles did not have any leisure time.

            Mark 6:
            And he said to them: “Come, you yourselves, privately into an isolated place and rest up a little.” For there were many coming and going,
            (and they had no leisure time) even to eat a meal.

        • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista

          So so so crazy….I’ve been sitting on the fence re reporting time for several months now. It’s ALWAYS felt “icky.” (Plus I usually just guesstimate it) How would the householder feel if he knew I was counting time and return visits on him? Do I start when I get in the car or when I actually talk to someone? Isn’t counting time the same as blowing my trumpet? If we want to contribute to “a good report” why can’t we just submit our time ANONYMOUSLY? That way nobody could compare themselves. Sure, I’d love to go to pioneer school or Gilead, but why is the door to the finer dining room only for the upper class of high hour reporters? Please help me adjust my attitude scripturally if I’m not getting something here. I just wanna speak freely about the hope without putting my name and hours on a slip.

          • those are some VERY VERY good points Alex

          • The time is fast approaching when Jehovah will clear up any false teaching among his people about our salvation, for “the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.” (John 4:23,24) No, we cannot earn salvation due to works by means of our unreserved dedication. But rather, we will gain everlasting life by exercising faith in the ransom provision, Jesus’ shed blood. This will include all who will come back in the resurrection. But the Watchtower insists that they too must earn their future salvation by means of their dedication:

            All these resurrected ones must do something in order for their resurrection to turn out to be one of life and not one of adverse judgment. They must come to the earthly courtyards of Jehovah’s temple and bow down in dedication to God through Jesus Christ. Any resurrected ones who refuse to do this will suffer the same scourge that befalls the present-day nations. (Zechariah 14:18). —w96 7/1 22-3 The Triumph of True Worship Draws Near.
            Our trinity of dedication, baptism, and salvation has caused a great deal of suffering. It is the means by which we are judged by our brothers, and we judge them. (Matt. 7:1,2; Rom. 14:4) We measure and compare each other’s spirituality by it, seeing how well everyone is living up to their dedication; publishers within the congregations, congregations within their circuit, and the circuits with the national average. And yet, it is not from God, for it is nowhere taught in the Scriptures. What is taught though, is that we must NOT judge, measure, or compare. (Rom. 14:10; Gal. 5:26; 6:4) And so we have made God’s Word invalid by our traditions. Now that is something to worry about! (Matt. 15:6-9)

            • We have so many problems that have stumbled many of Jehovah’s precious sheep; why so many feel unworthy, falling short of their dedication responsibilities, and do not expect to survive into the new system. And only Jehovah knows how many others have never taken the necessary step of baptism, fearing they could not live up to all the requirements involved in a personal dedication to God. The problem is that we have gone “beyond the things that are written.” No one on the face of this earth has the authority to do that! ―1 Corinthians 4:6.

              We have made God’s word invalid by some of our teachings which have become strongly entrenched. (2 Corinthians 10:4) But, rather than being discouraged by this information, it should fill us with hope that Jehovah will soon set matters straight. That our heavy burden of living up to our dedication will soon be lifted off us. Then we will be able to submit to the kindly yoke Jesus offered us, “Come to me, all YOU who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh YOU. Take my yoke upon YOU and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls. For my yoke is kindly and my load is light.” ―Matthew 11:28-30

            • Those who genuinely love their Creator, but suffer from ill health, financial burdens, advanced age, family responsibilities, or opposition, besides other problems, may eventually burn out and give up because of feelings of unworthiness. The kindly yoke that our Master invited us to accept becomes oppressive when the load has become heavy. ―Matt. 11:29,30; 23:2-5; Acts 15:10,11; Gal. 5:1.

              But there is hope! God’s promise assures us: “And they will have to know that I am Jehovah when I break the bars of their yoke and I have delivered them out of the hand of those who had been using them as slaves.” This will be fulfilled at the time when Jehovah holds the shepherds of his sheep accountable, asking his sheep back from their hand, “in the day of clouds and thick gloom.” ―Ezek. 34:10-12, 27, 31.

              “With what shall I confront Jehovah? [With what] shall I bow myself to God on high? He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?” —Micah 6:6, 8

            • man good reads

            • id change that word we to Watchtower. just me

            • True, thanks bro

            • Volcanic

              were you talking to me specifically, JS? It certainly felt like it. You have a great way of lightening the load, my dear brother.

            • Jehovah cares for each one of us and is very tender in his affection. (Matt. 7:13-14; James 5:11; 1 Peter 5:7) love you sis, hang in there .

            • what a load of crap! you know when something gets damaged to the point its not recognizable anymore? that articel looks like it came right out of some worldly church. thats the crap their teaching in the kingdom halls now?

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Ali, you can not ride two horses at once. You are going to hurt yourself. The truth sets us apart and eventually, we will have to make a stand on it. There is no scriptural requirement to count time and indeed, you are not alone in wondering what time you spend in the ministry should be counted. When I pioneered, I was told to go and stand outside the railway station and offer a magazine, then go to the hall for the ministry meeting, etc etc. Thus I started my time sometimes an hour and half before I spoke to my next householder. Who was I serving? Man, the organisation, the numbers, the false praise for hours served that I did not do. I was living a lie but I was not fooling Jehovah, only myself and fellow man. Even the elders knew of and conspired in and promoted this fraud. They did not care about my time, just the figures they returned to the organisation that showed they were doing their job. All of it was a fraud. And the hours system itself is a fraud. Joseph is right in standing his ground in his own conscience and not counting his time. You do not always feel that you have to be conforming within the congregation to allow others to think well of you, and thus give room to your thoughts on what you are learning here. You, I , all of us, can all give a good witness by standing for the bible principles in the very face of watchtower dictat. Some may ask you why you refuse to record hours and you can speak truth to them and let them reason. Sooner or later, we are all to be turned out of the congregation. This is only my opinion, I’m not telling you what to do. The scriptural view. Paul said he had to be all things to all men in his preaching. Can’t recall the chapter and verse, but this referred to his approach, not a dilution of the word, or in his stand. You really can talk to anyone you want, when you want without putting the time spent on a piece of paper, but you have to put up with the consequences. So what are the consequences as far as you standing with Jehovah in this and other matters is concerned? For me, when I was in your situation, as I felt just like Joseph on the matter, I just put ten hours on the slip, whether I had done twenty, thirty, or none. My time was between me and Jehovah. I got some satisfaction from skewing the figures for the elders as well. I did this because I recognised the fallacy of it, it’s worthless meaning and the bigotry of men. Your relationship is with Jehovah. Where we draw a line between appeasement of man and that relationship is a matter of conscience, but by our example is what others will see and it may well open minds.

            • Alexandra Bogolin Bautista

              I read your comments several times. Yes, riding two horses is difficult, and I’m not even a cowgirl. I know you, nor anyone else here is telling me what to do, but I value all the feedback. I’m also not interested in telling anybody else in my congregation to not report time, because that would make me guilty of imposing MY conscience on others. Regarding the reference WT always cites (“give a good report”)…I wonder if Jehovah views this as a stinky sacrifice….the smoke of burning report slips.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Joe cites the example of brothers reporting back as used by the congregation elders as an example. Biblically speaking, This was not hours though they told Joe it was. It was the news of the congregations. It shows the shallowness of their insight to think it meant time and not the quality of what went into that time. The organisation thinks they are running a business, again, adding to what the bible asks of us.

            • For many decades monthly reports for the congregation were even posted at the front of the meeting place for all to either admire or be shamed by. On the basis of his personal record a person might be recommended to a position of oversight. Compare this with what Jesus said about our “gifts of mercy,” that the preaching work is often compared to: “But you, when making gifts of mercy, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, that your gifts of mercy may be in secret; then your Father who is looking on in secret will repay you.” (Matt. 6:3,4) Jehovah sees what the heart of a man is like and makes appointments accordingly. (1 Sam. 16:7) Of course, man cannot do that, so for that reason he has to judge according to what appears to the eyes. Therefore, record cards. This is just another of the many traditions that Rutherford put in place, that continue to this day, whereby God’s word has been made invalid, but that is claimed to be from God and directed by his spirit. Outrages!

            • The holy spirit is no longer a real force in the lives of God’s people as a whole. In fact, they teach that it’s power and operation was unique to the first century and would be done away with. But in reality, it would only be the special gifts that would no longer be needed and would in time disappear. Jehovah’s holy spirit, its power and fruitage upon his people will never disappear, although a person can lose it for himself. (1 Cor. 13:8-13) No longer is there any room for the spirit to get involved in the preaching assignments the way it was in the first century. Can you imagine what might transpire if a person today is directed by the spirit for a certain assignment apart from the Governing Body? What if he acts upon the operation of the spirit, as Paul and Barnabas did? Is this, perhaps, a reason why some have been expelled from their congregations? Did Paul not say that the man of lawlessness is “set in opposition,” “publicly showing himself to be a god?” (2 Thess. 2:4) And all this, of course, is presented by them as Jehovah’s arrangement to which all must submit.

            • Volcanic

              if they teach that the holy spirit was already done away with or longer needed then surely that is the unforgivable sin – the sin against the holy spirit!

              It makes me so sad everyday when I read these various things & realise just how flippantly the organisation is treating the word of our dear Jehovah.

              Can you imagine when the judgement of the house of Jehovah comes, JS? These men could be holding a special meeting & all dressed in their best perfectly fitting hand made suits with their gold Rolex watches on, books all laid out before them. Fully expecting to be praised for their efforts over the years. When they hold out their hands for the payment of wages for the harvesting they will be handed a serpent!

              What a waste of their lives, what an absolute horror will overcome them!
              I would imagine that many of the ‘ordinary witnesses’ at that time will turn on the so-called leaders & betray them – mob violence will come out even though they are supposed to have the Christ-like personality. Anger will not be a harsh enough word when they realise how they have been duped by the governing body.
              I cry inside when I think about the way ordinary witnesses have been treated by the ‘shepherds’!

            • They are going to be nashing their teeth for sure. The prophets who “give false prophecies” are not Jehovah’s prophets. Neither has he empowered any “priests” to rule over any of his sheep. Then how is it that the prophets and priests have come to wield so much control and authority within God’s household, having become great and rich, being well fed and well groomed? In all of the “subduing according to their power” why does Jehovah not mention his anointed king? Where does he fit into all of this? In Jeremiah’s day the kings were still ruling although greatly influenced by the princes, prophets and priests. But where is the authority of our king, Christ Jesus, today? Would he not be just as shocked as Jehovah at the situation among God’s people? And if he were already ruling, would he be permitting this? As the evidence shows, the prophets and priests have supplanted the rightful king. They have seized rulership, albeit claiming with the king’s blessing, and they are doing so with harshness, having made themselves “masters over [our] faith.” (NWT) How unlike the attitude of the apostle Paul, who wrote, “We are not bosses who tell you what to believe. We are working with you to make you glad, because your faith is strong.” (2 Cor. 1:24; Contemporary English Version)

            • 1914for100Alex

              Your comments remind me of these scriptures:

              Mark 12:
              41 And he sat down with the treasury chests in view and began observing how the crowd was dropping money into the treasury chests, and many rich people were dropping in many coins. 42 Now a poor widow came and dropped in two small coins of very little value. 43 So he called his disciples to him and said to them: “Truly I say to you that this poor widow put in more than all the others who put money into the treasury chests. 44 For they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her want, put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”

            • e.v.g

              Such arrangements seem to me a worldly type, as used by large companies in the world to have controlled someone or something. If Rutherford did this, he made a big mistake.

          • Song of Hannah

            Well I can’t speak or decide for anyone else, but this is the scripture that I follow, until Jesus liberates us, as he did the 1st Christians after his resurrection.

            Matt 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say.”

            • Joe Dman

              There you go. Robert did point that out once. I guess I’m just a slug and I’m making excuses for why i don’t report. There’s this thing in the back of my mind that tells me if i report a bunch of informal hours and none of the others that they may think I’m lying. Why do they need to be separated anyway?
              I haven’t filled one out since i came back so it may be different. They did recently change some things so that you could report internet activity so those of you spending time here commenting and since there are a few who are not baptised, i suppose if your conscience allowed it you could report it.

            • e.v.g

              Preaching the good news is very important, ( although, I have had difficulties with some people, who discouraged me sometimes, including JW’s) I have to thank Jehovah for his help, that’s why i still clinging to the watchtower, the perseverance of the brothers and sisters in the Bible studies, I have had good examples and experiences of these brothers and sisters, not everything is bad.
              I enjoy the company of a brother preaching the good news.

            • patri

              Exactly Hannah… The scribes and Pharisees were false prophets…hypocrites… and Jehovah of armies tells us through Jeremiah (class) “not to listen to these false prophets when they prophesy to you, filling you with futile hopes. They are making up everything they say. They do not speak for me!” 3:16

            • good reminder

      • then tell that brother to report these apprehensive people and ask on what grounds they are not associating as if you are sinning. then ask why they are using some form of cruel coercion to get you to work against your conscience

    • e.v.g

      But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead. (Luke 16:31)
      Apparently, they have changed their main duties, they do not listen Jesus words in the bible, although they are saying otherwise. They are saying “we see” when is not true.
      Probably the rich one of the parable is referring to the wealthy slaves of this moment.

  • Ed(the other Ed)

    Robert you said:”This means that the good news is preached before Christians are handed over to tribulation to be killed. What it really means is that the good news is preached in all the earth before nations and kingdoms are thrown into tumult. It is preached before the wars and food shortages and pestilence claim hundreds of millions of lives.”
    Does the preaching work your referring to mean the final work of the “two witnesses”?
    First there is a global financial collapse with a seemingly brief recovery followed by war when TPTB declare “peace and security” right? This is how I always thought the game will be played out. what’s your position on this?

    • it would have to be no. i think. youre making me check me bible again ^_^ … the final is the 5 months and the 1,260 days that may overlap but im uncertain about that. hope Rob is able to respond to you. but the 8 king gets reports cause spirit Jehovah pored out to his servents are causing some attention. that would have to be after the king comes out of the abyss. hope all is ok other Ed

      • Ed(the other Ed)

        Hi D34,
        No I don’t think he’s going to respond because he senses that my field slip is 12 years over due, that’s okay you’ll help me right? If the global collapse brings the WT down in the beginning, then who are the ones doing the preaching between that first initial phase of the tribulation(the financial collapse) until the wars, food shortages etc.. happens?. That’s the part I’m trying to figure out. I understood it to be that the kingdom would be established here and then using the remaining ones of the seed to fix what the WT screwed up and then anyone with an “ear to hear” would recognize these ones and side up with them until their protective shield is removed when the eighth king decides to execute them. Then the remaining ones change in the twinkling of an eye to join forces with the others and snuff out the evil from the earth. How’s that sound….no cigar? Help me man!

        • Roberts just hit an miss. bizy and medatating too.

          what scriprures are you using to suport witnessing in the first phase?
          sounds about close to what i have.

          in other words, are they witnessing before or after the 8th from the abyss. or both? after for sure but before then idk

          • Ed(the other Ed)

            Well, currently the preaching work is being conducted as we speak since around Russell’s time. As crazy as it may sound, the main reason I believe is to gather the remaining ones of the seed. If it wasn’t for this then another thousand years could slide by. So he speeded it up a little bit. I don’t have any scriptures really, just wingin it between a cold brew and Roberts essays, guilty on my part bud I know. Maybe Brook Kevin can chime in if he’s on the same page, he’s the scripture guru.
            If it’s only three and a half year period before the “morning glory” I would assume it would take at least that time to spread the word for a few billion delinquents among 7000 chosen ones, after all Jehovah said he loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. So I’m thinking it should start at the beginning and extend to the end when the nations are brought to an end or close to it. What’s idk brother you lost me?

            • 1,290 days is more then 3&1/2 years. i hope everyone reads this to understand that; unless im mistaken, (which wouldnt be the first time) the scripture doesnt say the tribulation is only 3&1/2 tatal years.

              as far as my concept of it –

              sword stroke, satan cast to earth, 4 horsmen, disgusting thing in holy place, scattering/gathering, spirit given/final witnessing, parousia, 5 month message of doom, 8th king kills em/armageddon

              probly off idk

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              I always thought that the 1290 days, time, times and half a time, and the numbered evening and mornings make up the 3 and1/2 year period. And that all these things would occur in this time frame. The bible might not say that but seems to imply that that is the case.
              If this is true then, the sequence of events that you just described could all take place in this time frame, idk why it couldn’t.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              These articles will help everyone to get the big picture.

              Daniel and the Time of the End.

              Articles examining the prophecy of Daniel and its meaning for our day. Also see the chapter

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Thanks bud I’m listening. I’ll check it out in the morning, kinda late where I’m at and thanks for taking the time to post.

            • 1914for100Alex

              Here’s something that might help with some of your questions: https://e-watchman.com/revelation-christ-two-witnesses/

              Also, idk is short for “I don’t know”

              I need to keep reading too until all of this soaks in. It’s funny that when I first started reading Robert’s interpretation of things it just clicked. I knew that this was the explanation, but I can’t keep it in my brain! It’s a lot to remember, and I’ve been away too long to have the relevant scriptures memorized. Then again, at least I’m not having to battle two interpretations at the same time like some here have to.

              My understanding of how things kick off is that the preaching work has to have reached around the world, ie: the JW’s going door to door, missionary work etc. This gives the world a chance to know the truth about who Jehovah and Jesus are. They can either accept it, or reject it. Once the good news has been spread, things start to go downhill.

              Mark 7 Moreover, when you hear of wars and reports of wars, do not be alarmed; these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
              8 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in one place after another; there will also be food shortages. These are a beginning of pangs of distress.

              The above scriptures are what Jesus was talking about when he said:

              Matthew 32 “Now learn this illustration from the fig tree: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.

              So basically the preaching reaches the far corners of the earth, and then the disasters hit. Earthquakes, famine, war etc. At some point “peace and security” is declared, and then “sudden destruction” which I take to mean the beginning of the Tribulation.

              1 Thessalonians 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.

              For some reason during all of this the Witnesses become hated and persecuted. I’m with you in thinking that the preaching work carries on, but as you said, it will likely be sporadic. It’s hard to imagine any sense of order amidst the chaos that will be unfolding. It very well may be on an individual basis, or maybe small groups. Time will tell.

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Thanks for your thoughts, and it appears to make more sense to me, but I thought things started going down hill for the WT 15 years ago and it looks like their almost to the bottom of the rubble. The problem I see is that the preaching coming from the WT can’t keep up with world population especially now after being driven out of Russia and China, so I t makes me think that something more advanced is going to take place on the world scene to take over what the WT started when the tribulation starts. Something where “truth” can’t be disputed or hidden through a WT magazine. I will check out the link you provided thank you, even though I probably read it before, but like you said it’s hard to remember these things

            • 1914for100Alex

              Things certainly aren’t looking good for the WT Society, but what I meant when I said “downhill” was that the world in general would experience the things Jesus warned of. As far as keeping up with population booms, I don’t think we can count children in all of this. That buys a little leeway in my opinion. Also, you mentioned something more “advanced” taking over. I know you meant once the Tribulation starts, but in the meantime I think the way we’re communicating right now qualifies as “advanced” and that could help out some in places like Russia and China. I say “some” because those countries are notorious for controlling the Internet. If we make it to the Tribulation it’s going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.

              I find myself wondering, as a person that hasn’t been to a Kingdom Hall in over 25 years, if I’ll get caught up in the mess (the persecution) or if I’ll be left alone? Will they only be targeting active JW’s? Will my years of not going to the Kingdom Hall be what saves me from it? That doesn’t seem fair, although in a way it makes some sense. There need to be people out there that know what’s really going on. Those of us here that aren’t active have the perfect disguise. Hopefully Jehovah allows us to be of some help.

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Thanks brother I like the way you think,
              As far as your last paragraph goes, my thinking is that there is no escape in the judgments regardless of wither or not your on the inside or out. It comes upon the whole world, there’s no hiding in the end, which keeps my question hanging. But even now after so long out of the organization you still know what to do when the going gets tough. You got this much out of it at least, and so did I. What we do know is that when Jesus shows up like a thief in the night, if your not dressed in a suit and a tie with a WT magazine in your hand, and your still awake, your more then likely on his good side. That, I can sleep with.

            • Can you imagine what might transpire if a person today is directed by the spirit for a certain assignment apart from the Governing Body? What if he acts upon the operation of the spirit, as Paul and Barnabas did?

            • LW

              Right on. People in general seem to be questioning what’s going on and experiencing an awakening. If this is the state the world over, then even for active JWs, they also will be affected to a certain extent.

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Yeah, I have a feeling Jehovah is going to blow the lid off this cover up like what Robert has been saying all along, not sure at what point between the start and the specific seal that opens up, but I only have the insight of a box of rocks or worse, so I leave it up to him. I think JWs will be affected more then a certain extent, but they know who to call on when the going gets tough and no ones around, this they have been trained to do. The prayers don’t end with “thank you Watchtower” even though they may be the golden calf idol. My gut feeling is that most will figure out what to do. As far as the rest of the world is concerned it would make sense that the truth would extend to them as well at some point right? To the remotest far corners of the earth then the end would come? If the WT can’t accomplish this task with there twisted methods then someone else has to right? Anyways bud, I got to split before I say something really stupid and I shouldn’t be sitting here drinking beer anyways or my mentor Burt will discipline me to the proper degree. Wouldn’t want to upset him. Peace LW

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Podcast #35 https://e-watchman.com/podcast-35/

          This program considers a call-in question regarding whether people of the world can still be saved during the tribulation. Also, questions about Enoch and Elijah going to heaven. Why did Thomas call Jesus “my Lord and my God”? (YouTube video on same question) And more….

          • patri

            Many thanks for this link Kevin…recorded October 2011…just reminding me I have much still to catch up on, only being here a couple of years.
            Robert’s so good with his comforting words, so good at taking away worry and sadness and hurts, so good at instilling a pleasant feeling even though our road ahead is rocky to say the least…thanks again

        • Volcanic

          would that not be the e-watchman (type) group who are to be doing the preaching after the initial phase of the tribulation, Ed? Doesn’t the Kingdom become established later in the stream of those things, almost towards the very end when the remaining/anointed ones are about to be killed? I thought when the scriptures state that ‘it is like they are touching Jehovahs eyeball so that He immediately responds

          • Bklyn Kevin

            When does Jesus become king?’ https://e-watchman.com/jesus-become-king/

          • Ed(the other Ed)

            Hi Volcanic I would like to think that those here would be used in some way, I know Jehovah can pick and choose any clown he wants to accomplish his goals, and I know I fit in that category even though my “Christ like personality” doesn’t shine 24/7 like some people around here.
            As far as when the Kingdom is established I thought it correlates with the initial collapse, do the nukes launch the same day or the very next? I’m not sure about that one and I don’t think anyone really knows. Robert touched on a “post witness time” in one of his last articles similar to what Noah had done with his message of doom. I think he was making a parallel during the time of the trib.
            I think the “eye ball touchy thing” has to do with the death of the chosen ones and Jehovah releases his vengeance in there behalf. But don’t ask me to many detailed questions, I’m not one of the pros here okay? Just a clown trying to figure it out. The visions apparently are for the chosen ones, people like you and me won’t see squat, nada, nothing. At least according to this site, but the ones shinning bright will be around and should have some extraordinary things to say for everyone. How that’s sound?

          • Joe Dman

            I agree with you Volcanic, especially about going in to our interior rooms because whether it be the intense glory of Jehovah that no man can see and yet live, or the glory that Jehovah bestows upon the co-ruling brothers of Christ, it is a glory so intense that no man can see it and live. That may be the way in which all those who know Jehovah are saved. They will know what is coming and the way to be saved. Much like the Israelites had to take action by slaughtering the sheep and painting it’s blood over the door. Were they required to stay inside ? I can’t remember, but seems they were. Anyway, that may be the way in which wicked man is wiped out at Armageddon. Oh, and ????.

            • LW

              Interesting points, but remember that the Israelites witnessed God’s grand act of deliverance at the Red Sea, among other instances. If that was the case back then, how much more so on the biggest stage would God’s people not at all see Jehovah act in their behalf?

            • Volcanic

              thinking as I type here, LW, those crossing the Red Sea were already ‘marked’ as saved & as part of that saving they needed to see the Red sea being parted otherwise they would not realise the amount of protection that Jehovah would give them in the 40 year wilderness trek.(looking forward for His ‘saving’ strength)
              They needed that reassurance then whereas those of us who must go into our interior rooms will have already witnessed the Parousia of Christ etc.
              Since this will be the final act of Jehovahs day, so we will have no further need of seeing Jehovah act in our behalf for the future, we will already have it firmly established in our hearts what He is capable of in our behalf. (looking back on His ‘saving’ strength)

              Struggling to bring what is in my brain onto the page in order to make sense. No doubt as soon as I press the Post button all sensible arguments will come into my head!!

            • Volcanic

              Isaiah 26;20 “Go, my people, enter into your interior rooms, and shut the doors behind you. Hide yourself for but a moment until the denunciation passes over”………..
              Exodus 12;22…..” and none of you should go out of the entrance of his house until morning. +23; then when Jehovah passes through to plague the Egyptians & sees the blood on the upper part of the doorway & on the two doorposts, Jehovah will certainly pass over the entrance, & he will not allow the plague of death to enter into your houses”
              So, Joe, if we read those 2 verses it becomes obvious why we must stay indoors. It would appear that being in our interior rooms equates to the Israelites putting blood on the doorposts, there must be some sign on our interior rooms that prevents the angels of Death entering our houses. Maybe it is in some way connected with the mark from the Inkhorn’s secretary.(Eze 9;2-11)

              Interestingly enough the passage at Isaiah actually cross references to Exodus 12,22 & also Psalm 32;7, 91;4, & Proverbs 18;10 also, all of them talking about how Jehovah is our protection ‘ the tower we will run to’
              Getting less ?? marks now 🙂

            • Volcanic

              just an afterthought here.
              if we are to go into our interior rooms why is it that the GB have told witnesses to prepare a 3 day go-bag? (In fact they have extended it to 1 week now)

            • 1914for100Alex

              Reminds me of the scene towards the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. I bet that’s where the writers got their inspiration for having Marion and Indy keep their eyes closed.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          A Detailed Summary of the Time of the End

          Podcast #15 https://e-watchman.com/podcast

          Program considers question regarding “timeline” of events to come. Also, are Jehovah’s Witnesses the true faith? How, if the holy place in the first century was rejected, could it be a symbol of the Christian congregation? Also, why would Satan kill the remaining holy ones if he knows it will spell his end?..


          • Ed(the other Ed)

            Thanks Kevin, I just got off work but will check them out tonight, thanks for your time brother.

  • LW

    I invite you all to have a look at this of Psalms chapter 79, and even though this was based on what has happened in the past, read this in view of the future:

    O God, the nations have invaded your inheritance;

    They have defiled your holy temple;

    They have turned Jerusalem into a heap of ruins.

    2 They have given the dead bodies of your servants as food to the birds of the heavens

    And the flesh of your loyal ones to the wild beasts of the earth.

    3 They have poured out their blood like water around Jerusalem,

    And no one is left to bury them.

    4 We have become an object of reproach to our neighbors

    Those around us ridicule and jeer us.

    5 How long, O Jehovah, will you be furious? Forever?

    How long will your indignation burn just like fire?

    6 Pour out your wrath on the nations that do not know you

    And on the kingdoms that do not call on your name.

    7 For they have devoured Jacob

    And have desolated his homeland.

    8 Do not hold us accountable for the errors of our ancestors.

    Quickly show us your mercy

    For we have been brought very low.

    9 Help us, O God of our salvation

    For the sake of your glorious name;

    Rescue us and forgive our sins for the sake of your name.

    10 Why should the nations say: “Where is their God?”

    Before our eyes may it become known among the nations

    That the shed blood of your servants has been avenged.

    11 May you hear the sighing of the prisoner.

    Use your great power to preserve those sentenced to death.

    12 Repay our neighbors sevenfold

    For the taunts they have leveled at you, O Jehovah.

    13 Then we, your people and the flock of your pasture,

    Will give thanks to you forever;

    And we will declare your praise from generation to generation.

  • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

    When I alone was studying daily scriptures it was bore but now with Robert king each scriptures daily make me to mediate the whole day some subject even weeks that’s is what is difference and that is why i stick to this site.

    • Darren Wilks

      Me too brother Basavaraj!

  • Good is Jehovah to the one hoping in him, to the soul that keeps seeking for him.
    Good it is that one should wait, even silently, for the salvation of Jehovah. ―Lamentations 3:25-26

  • T L C

    Greetings all! Thanks for this article Bro King. I loved it! Lately my friend (who is still going to meetings)has been talking about the influx of talks at the kingdom hall and assembly that are putting an eerie emphasis on being ready for things to come. She said they have had talks hinting at the possibility of having to flee the organization, having a “go bag” ready, and being prepared for extreme hardship such as has not been experienced before. I mean I know JW’s obviously know the Great Tribulation will bring hardship (that’s nothing new) but the way my friend is putting it, it’s as if they are starting to view it as more specifically being targeted at Jehovah’s people. It almost seems like some within the leadership (while not completely taking back the 1914 hoax), has come to realize that real persecution has not truly been unleashed on God’s people as has been taught in the past. Anyone have any thoughts on this matter?

    • LW

      Yeah, and this is exactly what I was thinking too..in the Hezekiah drama, it was almost like they were telegraphing what was to come. The prophet Joel was there along with Isaiah. And in Joel it specifically talks about Jehovah’s Day. If you really want a chilling description of what is really coming, I would read all three chapters.

      I agree with you for sure.

      • T L C

        Thanks for the reply LW. Ok glad to know I’m not alone in my thinking. Yes, I’ve read Joel numerous times and Hezekiah and Isaiah once. Some portions of Isaiah I’ve read several times but it is so long that I’ve had a hard time reading it all the way through at one setting. They are definitely chilling to say the least. I think I’ll make it a point to read them all again just to refresh. Have a great day:-)

    • patri

      They’ve obviously been reading Robert’s book she said facetiously…

      • T L C


    • where you been? wb

      • T L C

        Confused. I had thought I was going back to meetings and then so much has happened since I was on here last…lots on the brain. Guess you can say I was in a funk but I’m finally coming out…:-)

  • The day of Jehovah is fast approaching. We are now witnessing the developments within God’s organization as foretold by God’s prophets. Jehovah’s judgment will start with his own household. Therefore, the identity of the man of lawlessness is now in the process of being revealed. “For the time [has arrived] for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will [be] the end of those who do not respect or believe or obey the good news (the Gospel) of God? And if the righteous are barely saved, what will become of the godless and wicked?” —1 Peter 4:17,18; Amplified Bible.

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