When Is the Great Crowd?

//When Is the Great Crowd?

Saturday, August 20

The eyes of Jehovah are on the righteous, and his ears listen to their supplication.1 Pet. 3:12.

The righteous include “a great crowd” who “come out of the great tribulation.” These survivors are not just “a crowd.” They are “a great crowd”—a very large number of people. Do you see yourself among them as a survivor of “the great tribulation”? Where do those making up the great crowd come from? They are being brought together because of what Jesus foretold as part of the sign of his presence. He said: “This good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” In these last days, this is the chief work of God’s organization. Because of the global preaching and teaching activity of Jehovah’s Witnesses, millions of people have learned to worship God “with spirit and truth.”

COMMENTARY

In 1935 J.F. Rutherford spoke on the topic of the “Great Multitude” at a national convention of the newly-named Jehovah’s Witnesses. He asked those in attendance who did not entertain the heavenly calling to please stand up. He thus introduced the “great multitude,” as the traditional King James Version phrased it, as those who will survive the great tribulation.

But, alas, in all likelihood all of those “Jonadabs,” as they were called then, have died off, thus rendering it impossible for them to come out of the great tribulation. I suppose it is feasible that if someone had been born, say around 1916, making them 19-20 years old in 1935, they could still be alive now at 100 years of age. But surely that entire World War One generation has for the most part passed away.

The point is, the great crowd are identified by one characteristic. They come out of the great tribulation. Obviously, no one has come out of the tribulation alive for the simple reason that the world’s greatest time of trouble has not occurred.

So, while Rutherford may have correctly interpreted the great multitude as being composed of sanctified believers who will live on earth after the battle of Armageddon, those 800-plus souls whom Rutherford identified as the original members of the great multitude were not really, for the reason already stated.

The question really is, when is the great crowd? When does it form? The answer is, the great crowd is gathered during the great tribulation – not before. That truth is expressed in the prophecy of Haggai, which states: “For this is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘Yet once more—in a little while—and I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land. and I will shake all the nations, and the precious things of all the nations will come in; and I will fill this house with glory,’ says Jehovah of armies.”

It is apparent that the outworking of the prophecy of Haggai 2:6 has been going on since Jehovah God the Almighty took over his universal sovereignty in that war-marked year of 1914 C.E. But the prophecy goes on to tell us what will result from the rocking of all the nations, besides the total removal of the man-made system of things on earth. — Paradise Restored 1972

 The Watchtower teaches that God began shaking the nations in 1914. Supposedly God has been rocking the nations over the course of the past century! However, the fact of the matter is since the last great spasm or war known as WWII ended the world has enjoyed a remarkable period of relative peace and stability. Indeed, consider that after the war ended there were only about a quarter of a million active Jehovah’s Witnesses in the world. That number doubled in the span of five years. Can that be attributed to the nations being rocked by war? Of course not. Just the opposite. From 1950 to the present the organization has grown because of the peace and stability in the world, not because God has been violently shaking the nations.

Jesus spoke of the heavens being shaken and the sea being violently driven. Here is what he said: “Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.”

For many decades the Watchtower taught that the nations had been in anguish not knowing the way out ever since 1914. The February 15, 1988 Watchtower, however, was the last time the organization applied Jesus’ words to the past. Starting with the April 1, 1990, edition the Watchtower unceremoniously shifted to a future fulfillment. But what that means is that these things have not started to occur yet, hence there is no tangible evidence that our deliverance is getting near.

Since Christ connected deliverance, or salvation, with the nations being in anguish and men becoming faint with fright, while the powers of the heavens are shaken, it is apparent that the shaking Jehovah spoke of in Haggai coincides with the great tumult Christ foretold, which the Watchtower now even admits has not begun yet.

Paul indicated as much too. Quoting the prophecy of Haggai the inspired apostle wrote at Hebrews 12:26-27: “At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised: ‘Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heaven.’ Now the expression ‘yet once more’ indicates the removal of the things that are shaken, things that have been made, in order that the things not shaken may remain.’”

The time Jehovah’s voice shook the earth was when he spoke to Moses on the mountain. Paul indicated that the earth is due another shaking when Jehovah speaks, a shaking that will result in the utter annihilation of the present system, including the Watchtower. What will remain? The next verse says: “Therefore, seeing that we are to receive a Kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us continue to receive undeserved kindness, through which we may acceptably offer God sacred service with godly fear and awe. For our God is a consuming fire.”

The Kingdom is the only institution that will remain. Therefore, those who come out of the tribulation are brought, not into any sort of visible organization, but into the Kingdom.

Indeed, even the Watchtower with all of their irrational attachment to 1914, unwittingly acknowledges that the great crowd have not been gathered yet, that is because about 20 years ago the Governing Body revised their teaching regarding the separation of the sheep and the goats —placing it in the future. That is when the King will say to the sheep: “Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.”

Appropriately, the seventh chapter of Revelation depicts the great crowd as standing before the throne. While some unreasoning persons imagine that to be a reference to their being in heaven, the illustration of the sheep and the goats takes place when the Son of man arrives in his glory and sits down upon his throne. Obviously, though, the goats that are sent to the everlasting fire prepared for Satan and his angels are not in heaven. Hence, standing before the throne means that they are judged here upon the earth.

And since the sheep who are blessed with entry into the Kingdom are blessed due to their having supported Christ’s brothers during their tribulation, it is evident that the great crowd are formed as a result of being drawn into the unshakable Kingdom during the great shaking yet to come.

image_pdfimage_print
2017-03-18T11:39:54+00:00 August 20th, 2016|Commentary|64 Comments
  • “Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.”

    • Volcanic

      oh, it’s you! I had to check your profile, good job I didn’t welcome you as a newbie 😉
      I pray that one day I will hear those words “Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.”……how thrilling those words are, imagine the tears of joy to be told that……….**goosebumps already** Jehovah God willing I will be there with my two princesses xoxo

      • Sorry for the confusion, someone made a comment of me being a ewatchman poster boy. So I was being a punk & trying to make his day ! Hahaha hahaha hahaha

        I’ll change it back tomorrow

        • Beverly kenyon

          Whoah! That face has Poster Boy written all over it! Lol.

          • Volcanic

            was ‘that face’ before he evolved backwards into a monkey, Beverly?

            • Joel

              Oh no you didn’t!!! Lol!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Volcanic, crying laughing at that picture! Well, if it was then he’s got problems. That evolution theory about monkeys and humans is about as insane and nonsensical as 1914! Gotta get my zzzz’s now as I have my meeting tomorrow…can you believe I’m saying that? Yet it feels so natural like I’ve never been away! Weird! Enjoy your meeting tomorrow Volcanic and no giving daggers to you know who! Nite!

          • That’s a face only a mother could love! ???

            • Beverly kenyon

              So funny! You gotta love that cheeky face! What a charmer!

            • Burt Reynolds

              You can see why the name Jehonadab didn’t survive….’Good morning, we are Jehovah’s Jehonadabs……’ Startled householder…’Jehovah’s what?????’ ‘Err…Jehonadabs…erm,…..let me show you the scripture…’ Slam! We only had Sherbertdabs in England and they cost two penny’s (tuppence) in old money, before decimalisation, or in even older money, before imperialisation, half a groat. Besides that, Jehonadabs would have been very difficult to put into a kingdom song…..’We’re Jehovah’s Jehonadabs, we speak out in fearlessness…’ Poor old Jehonadab.

            • Huldah

              Sherbertdabs?? Sherbrt??
              I was just talking about Jehonadab and stumbled on your post.

              While on the topic of food.
              I’m doing a survey.
              I’m awaiting Easacs reply too
              What are biscuits in England….cookies?

            • Burt Reynolds

              Ha ha. As you may imagine, biscuits in England are called biscuits, because that is what they are. They need no further explanation regarding the fact that have been cooked, because that, is taken for granted. The same reasoning is applied to: horse back riding = horse riding. We know which part of the horse to sit on : eye glasses, = glasses…we depend on the context of conversation….if you were to go into a china shop you get glasses, if you go into an optitcian you get glasses. It all adds excitement to the day. If you drive into a petrol station and ask for gas, you will get a bottle of methane or natural gas and not petrol, or indigestion, though you might if you ate one of their cookies. Pants = underwear, and if you ask for a faggot in the north of England you will get a meat ball, wrapped in caul, or, in the south of England, Cornwall, you will get a bunch of sticks for lighting a fire. Unfortunately, if you ask for a politician, you will get the same as you guys have. But one other thing: a car is called a car and not a ‘Veer-hickle’. What most English in their pomposity about the English language, fail to recognise is that quite of lot of American is English ‘as she was spoke’ back in the seventeenth century! We even call a condominium a house. The most wonderful thing is that here we all call God, Jehovah.

            • Huldah

              I’ve drawn this conclusion from the replies I’ve received from both You and Easac.

              Biscuits are complicated.

            • Burt Reynolds

              There has been a legal argument raging in British Courts of Law as to whether a Jaffa cake…..if you have them in the States ( they are a type of sponge with an orange jam in the centre topped with chocolate) can be termed a biscuit. If it’s a biscuit, it does not attract purchase tax. If it’s a cake, then it does. It’s good to know where our government priorities lie. I expect your government does not have issues as complex as this to deal with.

            • Huldah

              No. We have Donald Trump.
              Everything he does is “great”.

              I’m going to hit allrecipesdotcom
              ForBattenburg Cake
              Jaffa Cake and Sherbertdabs
              Maybe I can find Indianw biscuits as per Easac too.

            • Burt Reynolds

              The answer to everything. Battenburgh cake. Even the Father knows that! Few people know that the literal translation of the word Manna, refers to a sponge cake layered with jam and wrapped in almond paste and sugar and served with tea flavoured with Bergamot oil…..known in those days as Moses Grey Tea. Of course the tea was always served in cups made from bone, a tradition still carried on in Britain today where tea is served in bone china cups.

            • Huldah

              Never seen it before. I have a pound of quality “Moses Grey” though. You’re going to have me making a sponge cake yet. I refuse to use the oven until it cools down a bit more, however.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Wow! I thought my wife was the only one who refused to use the cooker during the summer. I have to wait until she is out before I can make the bread!

            • Huldah

              I got a nice infrared kettle grill. It’s my summer stove and oven. Now I have to know what kind of bread you make. It better not have a fancy English name.
              Like Hindenburg Bread.
              Wait, I think that’s German. It would have a cool shape, though, if it didn’t catch the oven on fire.

            • Vilhelm Bock

              “Unsubscribe”

              Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S8+.

              ——– Original message ——–

            • Burt Reynolds

              If you use Facebook you can contact me on Groke Goddard.

            • Huldah

              You might convince me to resurrect my Facebook account. I think we successfully shut it down a few months ago. I’ve been trying to kill it for a while. I don’t like the obligation and the privacy issues. To me, my Facebook account is kinda like Hitler. You can’t help but be glad it’s finally dead and you keep thinking there’s no reason in the world you’d want to resurrect it, then someone gives you a reason that makes it conceivable again. Lol

            • Burt Reynolds

              I agree with you. I don’t like Facebook, but I find it at present more useful than its drawbacks. It provides a link with some of the brothers and sisters and thus an insight into how Jehovah figures in the lives of others and adds a bit of realism and balance of mind. It also helps with general and applicable world event issues. But above and beyond that, it’s full of swearing and profanity and which I could do without. It’s a mean, nasty world out there but ignoring it does not make it go away, but then it’s helpful to gauge what is going on in the world and some of the true news channels are helpful. I also belong to the Far Side cartoon group which is a real life saver!

            • Huldah

              Obviously I am the minority in the world. I’m used to being weird. Knowing you, I’m sure have found many noble uses for Facebook.

            • Richard Long

              Count me in as a Facebook detractor! Hate it all the more BECAUSE it is often the only means of contact with so many so distant.

            • Huldah

              One thing I can’t stand is how everything you do online is linked. I don’t want someone who is checking me out on Facebook to find out info I don’t want them to know. I want to choose what I tell people. I also want to choose when I engage someone and not be forced to constantly keep up with the goings on of all my acquaintances.

              I’m keeping my distance from the congregation almost completely these days and they use Facebook to try to engage me or check up on me. I need distance and complete control of my socializing to decontaminate from the negative past influences.

            • Richard Long

              At least YOU had the good sense to exert your presence here (and elsewhere) anonymously! lol

            • Burt Reynolds

              You are not alone. I’m very weird. One has to be weird to survive in this world.

            • Giuseppe
            • The Raven

              Lol!

            • insanity

            • Burt Reynolds

              It keeps them occupied Dr. And if they are occupied with biscuits they are not doing anything else to harm the population. You have to look on the positive side of things.

            • is there a giant named Gulliver in this story?

            • Vilhelm Bock

              Unsubscribe.

              Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S8+.

              ——– Original message ——–

            • Burt Reynolds

              Probably. There is in most.

        • Burt Reynolds

          You can’t beat Robert’s swarve, rugged good looks, with the designer stubble and even the monochrome picture taken back in the early days of photography, in the sunglasses with that hint of Elvis about him in that wry smile. It would not surprise me in the least if he drove up the kingdom hall on a Harley…..just the same as I imagine you in a large red pickup with an engine the size of a London bus in it.

          • Darren Wilks

            Totes! as in Totes mah goats.. as in Totally.. as in Yup, as in Yes, ..In deed good Sir, as in In deed…. to Indubitably! So basically.. yes, I concur.

        • Ed(the other Ed)

          That was a joke bud LOL! Nothing wrong with having the gift of gab and then someone else comes along and you have to hand over the baton. I’m still writing like a 3rd grader> See Spot. See Spot run. See Spot chase ball

          • No worries TOE, no hard feelings.
            Everyone has equal voice here, we all enjoy everybody’s comments . ? cheers

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              You have to realize Joe that some people are much closer to perfection and I’m way down at the bottom so it’s going to be awhile before I catch up to everyone.
              It’s okay…I accept it and deal with it.

  • Sam

    Great explanation of the “shaking” very good points to share with the brothers

    • Daisy

      …and those things that can never be shaken ( after the final change) the new heavens & the new earth ( the Kingdom) are the inheritance of the great crowd who come out of the tribulation…

  • Joel

    A truly enlightening commentary Bro. King. Well thought out, and very well reasoned. Keep ’em com’in!

  • Vilhelm Bock

    Robert, Rev. 7:14 states the Great Crowd come forth from the Great Trib. That would seem to relate to also surviving Armageddon. Based on WT teaching, the GT is an immediate prelude to Armageddon. Which one could coincide w/Rev. 7:14. If however as we’re learning, the Great Trib is a shortened period of days before the final 1,260 days of the conclusion of this system is to occur, were talking about a potential 3 year period or so after the Great Tribulation occured and was cut short. So wouldnt the Great Crowd be coming out of that conclusion 3 year post GT period, (Armageddon) instead of the Great Tribulation specifically?

    • Burt Reynolds

      Interesting point! Anyone have an answer?

      • Vilhelm Bock

        Lol, im fascinated. Over 7 comments made by readers on the “age” of Great Crowd survivors, etc….but not 1 regarding my question. And here I thought my question and its answer would have more consequence….

        • ELiJAHxSEVEN

          Perhaps we should ponder the question of who will be counting days on a calendar when the great tribulation unfolds in full force…highly doubt when the chaos comes upon the world, that any of us will pay attention to the time or day…the great tribulation will have enough consequence for us to consider…We can only hope to make it through with enough faith in Jehovah and to know that He knows who will survive and who will not based on our faith, and not our understanding of time…

    • the tribulation begins with a sword stroke. but the ststem recovers because it is cut short. healed. people will admire that. but the generation still living that survived and rejects it will keep living. the rejection will disturb the king of the north as he hears reports. a five month message of doom. after the chosen are sealed. then he will war with them an killing them will only mean his/Satan’s doom. from the time the system heals there will be 1,290 days to armageddon.

      • or as Kevin has explained, the 5 months is the time cut short.

        i know the angles hold back the four winds until the chosen are sealed, then armageddon time

    • #savekevin

      ‘the Great Trib is a shortened period of days before the final 1,260 days of the conclusion of this system’
      Here we are thinking the ‘conclusion of the system’ = ‘the great tribulation’ = ‘the last days’. But you’re saying the GT is before the conclusion. Yes, clarification please.

    • Burt Reynolds

      Well, in view of your remark that no one is answering, I’ll try to answer the question….I suppose most are out at work or otherwise, and I’m retired. So…I’m not gifted at translating scripture, but my understanding was that the two are differing entities. That the tribulation will identify those faithful, and Armageddon, the institution of Jehovah’s kingdom, I.e., the destruction of this system. Now there is nothing that I have found in the scriptures that indicates those that survive the tribulation are necessarily going through Armageddon as the issue of faith is an eternal one, not a temporary requirement. Thus some that survived the tribulation, may not survive the coming war. And yes, the days will be cut short, on account that no one would survive if they were not. I wouldn’t worry if a question does not get answered too much and that people go for the more light hearted responses. The short answer is that no one knows for certain what will occur and how, but that we try to understand and even speculate to provide ourselves with the comfort of knowing. I suppose what you see here can on occasion be nothing more than gallows humour !!!!

  • Joel

    Here is a question:

    If the Great Crowd comes “out” of the Great Tribulation, then couldn’t that mean that mean there would be different AGES to the Great Crowd members . . . thus different birth dates . . . thus different time periods of living?

    What I mean is simply this: Couldn’t some of the Great Crowd survivors be OLDER ELDERLY ones? What of all the old people that were born in the 1920s, the ’30s, the ’40s . . . aren’t they from another generation yet still ALIVE when the Great Tribulation breaks out? Won’t they too be surviving, yes, coming “out” as it were, of the great Tribulation?

    If so, then that would mean that many members of the Great Crowd are alive right now! And some have been alive for many decades? Right?

    If that be true, then the Watchtower Society could indeed be correct in stating that the Great Crowd has been being collected for many years now leading up to the Great Tribulation!!!

    Did I explain my quandry coherently? I hope so. Someone PLEASE help me!

    • Volcanic

      good job you didn’t say ‘older elderly ones’ born in the 50s, brother, or you & I would be having a fight just now…lol !!

      Yes, seriously though, many of the potential Great Crowd may be still alive, so technically, the WTS are correct, however I think Robert was making the point that in 1935 as was stated by Bro Rutherford, that crowd would be too old to be still alive by now

      “But, alas, in all likelihood all of those “Jonadabs,” as they were called then, have died off, thus
      rendering it impossible for them to come out of the great tribulation. I suppose it is feasible that if someone had been born, say around 1916, making them 19-20 years old in 1935, they could still be alive now at 100 years of age. But surely that entire World War One generation has for the most part passed away.”

      • Joel

        I get what you are saying.

        By the way, I myself was born in 1964. I am 52 years old. I guess I am s “senior” great crowd member! Lol! You and me both Volcanic! Lol!

        • Burt Reynolds

          Just as an aside on the age thing……’a thousand ages in thy sight is like an evening gone.’ As Jehovah is not bound by the bonds of time, then our age is an irrelevance, less than dust up on the scales I would imagine, and besides which, the promise that he will ‘preserve those alive’ will include the aged as well as the infirm, even the impossibly infirm, preserved alive according to his mercy.

    • Beverly kenyon

      I could be wrong but when the shaking starts, irrelevant of age, it will be a leveller for everyone, it will be who is left standing after the shaking having kept their integrity to Jehovah. I’d like to think I’m a member of the great crowd now but when that shaking starts, will I still be a member of the great crowd? I’d like to think I would be but who knows when the momentous shaking starts…I could completely lose it. Personally, I don’t think it will be an age thing. It will be about being loyal and keeping your integrity to Jehovah which in turn enable you to become a member of the great crowd.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Just as well if age is irrelevant , otherwise the shaking would have started already for me, along with the aching for the new order, the stopped up doors, the dim Windows and the groaning…..

        • Beverly kenyon

          So true Burt. Aww, just love that picture of that little fella….soooo cute!

    • its the tribulataion generation. age has nothing to do with it

      • Beverly kenyon

        DA, that was brilliantly put! That overlapping generation thing was one of the stupidest things things I was told, along with 1914, Oh, and the resurrected ones not marrying or having children…think that’s been revised since, but I had to learn that one from Brother King…and believe me I’ve been told some pretty stupid things in this life! It’s humiliating to be called, Stupid but that’s how Jehovah himself views them….I’d be devastated if Jehovah thought of me as stupid….I can be dense but not stupid!

        • i’ll be the first to admit to Jehovah or anyone that im pretty stupid. thats why i ask Jehovah to please be patient with me. everything is a pain. at least i try to listen and be like the Bereans who were noble-minded and be meek like Moses. im a stuborn guy but i love Jehovah and the truth and even though i dont understand, what else can a person do but just rely on Jehovah?

          • Beverly kenyon

            Awww, DA, that breaks my heart! No, DA, you might not be perfect like all of us, but you’re not stupid…there’s a difference. You love Jehovah, you listen to him, you love truth…that’s why you were led here like most of us and you want an end to Satan’s vile unjust system and you’re definitely meek as when anyone is having a go at you, you don’t retaliate….something I’m working on as I’m quick to react at injustice and bullying…straightaway I have my ‘Michael Phelps Game Face On’, lol. And you’re so right when you say, all a person can do is rely on Jehovah. So true.

      • 1914for100Alex

        Exactly. Matthew 24:34 is basically Jesus pointing out how wrong the Witnesses are with their 1914 beliefs. He’s telling us that when a particular generation starts seeing the signs, the big T is very near. Why would he make it more complicated than it needed to be? Right before that he gives the example of the fig leaf. This is as simple as basic math. A particular generation + signs that Jesus spoke about = that generation being the one that will experience the Tribulation, and out of that group the Great Crowd will emerge. Duh!

  • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

    There is no explanation greater than this, as far what I saw in the internet or in any other books.

Skip to toolbar