Has the Watchtower become apostate?

//Has the Watchtower become apostate?

Commentary on the daily text of Jehovah’s Witnesses

Monday, April 3

[Timothy] will remind you of my methods in connection with Christ Jesus, just as I am teaching everywhere in every congregation.—1 Cor. 4:17.

Recently, a group of elders who are successful in helping brothers to grow spiritually were asked what approach they use when training others. Though the circumstances of these brothers vary greatly, the advice they gave was strikingly similar. What does this indicate? That Bible-based training is applicable to learners “everywhere in every congregation”—just as it was in the apostle Paul’s day. A teacher needs to create the right conditions for training. Just as a gardener needs to cultivate, or loosen, the soil before sowing seeds, so a teacher needs to prepare, or encourage, the heart of a learner before teaching him new skills. So how do teachers create the right conditions for training others? By following an approach similar to that taken by Samuel when he was preparing Saul to lead Israel.

COMMENTARY

Amazingly, the Watchtower cites Saul’s leadership over Israel as a positive development and his “training” as something to be emulated. It is true, he was humble in the beginning and under his leadership Israel slew many Philistines, but he became a presumptuous tyrant and revealed that he was really faithless at heart. In that respect he really typifies the evil slave of Christ’s illustration.

When it comes to being good teachers, what are the most important qualities to cultivate? Hint: It actually has nothing to do with speaking ability, or effective use of illustrations or anything like that. Foremost, a teacher must love God. And as a lover of God a teacher must love what is right, as does Jehovah. Someone who loves God can teach others without saying a word. On the other hand, if a person is not true even the most eloquent speaker cannot be a good teacher.

The reason Paul wrote what he did concerning sending Timothy to the Corinthians so as to put them in mind of his teaching methods, was because the Corinthians were under the influence of false teachers, those whom Paul sarcastically dubbed the “superfine apostles.” It was these agents of Satan who merely disguised themselves to be ministers of righteousness, who were puffed up with pride. Doubtless, they were polished public speakers and orators, according to the greek tradition. They slandered Paul as having a weak personal presence and being a contemptible public speaker. That is why, in the very next verse Paul said: “Some are puffed up with pride, as though I were not coming to you. But I will come to you shortly, if Jehovah wills, and I will get to know, not the speech of those who are puffed up with pride, but their power. For the Kingdom of God is a matter not of speech but of power.”

When it comes to preparing our hearts, learners must develop a sense of loyalty to God and the truth that transcends all else. But the Watchtower does not really promote loyalty to God above all else. It places itself in the seat of God, making loyalty to the dictates of the organization paramount. Of course, like the superfine apostles were effectively disguised as ministers of righteousness, the Society is cloaked with a veneer of holiness.  But it is only an appearance.

The same was true of Saul. He had an imposing appearance, standing head and shoulders above other men —literally. And, as stated already, originally he was lowly and humble. But he couldn’t handle the honors and powers given him. In time he became so haughty he even erected a monument to himself. It seems Saul was greedy too. That is why he disobeyed Jehovah’s directive to devote the Amalekites to destruction and he spared some of the best of the flock under the pretext of doing so to offer them to Jehovah.

As an organization the Watchtower has followed a similar path. From its humble origins the organization has taken on an air of haughtiness. As the Society has prospered it has come to be run by accountants and lawyers. The board of directors have devised all sorts of money-making schemes. Like Saul, the Governing Body have erected a monument to themselves in Warwick, on the appropriately-named One Kings Drive. Like Saul and his attempt to justify his greed by claiming it was to promote the worship of Jehovah, the extravagant new headquarters is hailed as evidence of Jehovah’s blessing upon them.

But on the matter of loving righteousness and being true to God, both the law of Moses and Christian law requires men in authority to protect the most vulnerable from exploitation —the widows and orphans. Of course, it is not solely widows and fatherless boys that elders have a solemn duty to protect and defend. As the Watchtower well knows, children in general are vulnerable to abusers. Above all else those who are overseers must protect the children under their charge from exploitation by cunning predators. In this the Watchtower has failed miserably. It is now exposed for all to see, having been widely publicized in the media.

Not only has the Watchtower’s lawyers tied the hands of elders over the course of the past 50 years, ordering them to conceal sexual predators in the congregations, but when called to account by the superior authorities who function as Jehovah’s secular ministers for the public good, it is obvious that elders have been instructed by the Society’s lawyers to develop amnesia when asked to relate the details of specific cases of abuse —as the video compilation shows. In other words, the Watchtower has specifically instructed these elders to lie under oath and they dutifully complied.

In the case of Saul, after Samuel refused to speak with him any more, Saul became more and more wicked. Not only did he persecute David, Jehovah’s anointed, but eventually Saul resorted to necromancy —the occultic practice of using a medium to contact the dead.

We may expect the Watchtower to also become the persecuter of all who are anointed and who are loyal to God. At the coming of Christ the Watchtower will become an outright opposer of God, an antichirst. That is why Paul wrote: “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?”

As with Saul, there were several overt acts of unfaithfulness and presumption that led up to his outright apostasy, evidenced in his consulting with the witch of Endor; likewise, the leadership of the Watchtower has acted presumptuously and been unfaithful to Jehovah.

However, has the apostasy that immediately precedes the presence and manifestation of Jesus taken place? Apparently not. In the past I identified the Watchtower’s duplicitous NGO affiliation with the UN as the foretold apostasy. And to be sure, it was an act of apostasy. However, such acts as their United Nations partnership and their ongoing persecution of abused children and their lying coverups, are merely the telltale signs of a deeply submerged, institutional evil, which is what Paul was referencing when he wrote: “True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work.”

But the apostasy that must come will be an outright refusal to obey Jehovah. For example, if the Watchtower were to instruct Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia to stop preaching, that would be an act of apostasy —an outright rebellion against the order of Christ.

The link to this video was sent to me by a reader in Australia.

2017-07-22T14:46:13+00:00 April 3rd, 2017|Commentary|161 Comments
  • Nigel

    Wow

  • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

    Kings Road… They’ve taken the name before the appointment. The W.T. for many a year has behaved as though they stand ” A head and shoulders above the people”. I have often wandered why i have never quite fit or was able to squeeze myself into the narrow minded thinking of W.T policies . I use to think i was not worthy of the New World. Now i realize there is no one on earth that can save us. In the end its not going to be our loyalty to an organization or someone standing before Gods throne reading letters of recommendation. No it will be each one of us that will answer to Christ personally for everything we’ve ever done as to weather we recieve life or death..

  • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

    Hey people, now you know why the W.T calls it “The Truth” after watching the video, look how squirmingly painful it is for them to speak it before God and men!.

  • black curtain

    Robert, a good essay, one that I would like to be right, for sure. However, are you drawing a line in the sand as to what constitutes the act of apostasy that kicks the WT over the line of outright rebellion against Christ? What makes that particular act different, per say, than joining the UN or the failure in their duty of care re the flock with a particular emphasis on child abuse.
    In fact even to the world at large they have rebelled in that they failed to have “agape” in handing over details to authorities (secular) of criminals amongst themselves.
    Do you mean that any instruction to cease the preaching work, no matter where it be is a trigger for undeniable WT rebellion? Is apostasy the same as refusing an order?
    It would be good if you are right.

    • The NGO affair was very secretive, at least while they were an active NGO associate. Apparently only a handful of Bethel heavyweights even knew about it. It is true, that JW’s unwittingly distributed literature that had been cleverly written to promote the UN’s agenda, but the operative world is “unwittingly.” And elders have been strong-armed by the WT’s lawyers into protecting pedophiles, but it is not something that involves the worship of all JW’s. But if the WT were to order JW’s to stop preaching, that would be out in the open. All JW’s know it is their obligation to preach. It would be stunning if the WT did something like that, and JWs might not believe it ever would, but from all that they have done already I wouldn’t be surprised.

      I bring it up to raise awareness, because the WT has already compromised to some extent in curtailing the information cart campaign in Russia. And they have stopped using WT literature at the meetings, which, come to think of it, actually might not be a bad idea ;~)

      At any rate, we shall see what happens in April 5th.

      • Francis Bencharles

        What is April 5th if I may ask?

        • KB

          On March 15, 2017, Russia’s Ministry of Justice filed a claim with the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation to label the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia as extremist and liquidate it. The claim also seeks to ban the activities of the Administrative Center. If the Supreme Court upholds this claim, the Witnesses’ national headquarters near St. Petersburg will be shut down. Subsequently, some 400 registered Local Religious Organizations would be liquidated, outlawing the services of over 2,300 congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia. The branch property, as well as places of worship used by Witnesses throughout the country, could be seized by the State. Additionally, individual Jehovah’s Witnesses would become subject to criminal prosecution for merely carrying out their worship activities. The Supreme Court is expected to rule on the claim on April 5.

          • Francis Bencharles

            Thanks KB.

  • Burt Reynolds

    And yet, so many brothers and sisters still align themselves with this organisation. What manner of blindness is this? Maybe what we see is not blindness, but the emergent embryo of choosing to serve the watchtower rather than heed the coming of Christ. People weighing up and making their choice. I can think of no other explanation. I can understand Robert thinking the alignment, as an NGO, of the watchtower with the UN as being the sign of apostacy because, back then, one could be forgiven for thinking how much worse it could get! Well, now we see how much worse it can get. But consider the scriptures where they go on to relate the ultimate eruption of corruption when they turn over each other to death. No. Even at this stage of conniving lying and abuse, I fear we are only at the top of the slide down to destruction of the watchtower. It reminds me of when I was stupid enough to join the army, expecting comradeship and purpose in life. It took me no less that a day to realise that the crowd I was with would just as soon kill their own colleagues as the enemy. It was frightening to see such primitive, unbridled abandonment of reason, of everything that makes us human. Yet such was the deceit of the watchtower, it took me decades to see their corruption. If we cannot look to the watchtower for spiritual succour, then we can only look to each other here for the encouragement we need. Maybe this is reason watchman exists . I sincerely hope so. Perhaps we should draw closer together.

    • Andres Felipe

      Hello Burt: I think we should expect that the organization (already having the adoration of all the brothers) appeals to its authority to directly disobey jehova with dictatorial rules and rules. I remember what happened in a European country (I think, I do not remember) About blood transfusions in this country and on paper. This tyranny is such that the brothers do not recognize this dictatorship …. even the love (Jeremiah 5: 29-31)

      • black curtain

        The country you refer to is Bulgaria.

        • Andres Felipe

          Ahhh gracias, no recordaba .

  • anybody want to tell me what the 1st century contributions where for? i have a feeling it wasnt for building KH’s & for a world wide preaching work. – James 1:27

    • Burt Reynolds

      I would imagine it was for physical need, as brothers in those days seemed to be dedicated to full time preaching, not self supporting like pioneers today. Jesus said to those fishing to follow him and he would make them fishers of men….and they did. I have never researched who they got money for food and shelter, or for clothes, but then, the bible says not to worry about that as Jehovah clothes and feeds the animals, so how much more will he feed and clothe you! They met in the homes of each other, and preached in the open. Think how much money the watchtower…..and more importantly, the brothers, could have saved if they followed the same pattern.

  • Max

    Wow! As I read this article my heart just melts with fear. These
    are very powerful words brother King… The article its a
    denunciation for sure! This article shows the seriousness of not
    following Jehovah’s directions. Saul was a very good example of that!
    It really made me examined myself as a teacher. It is sad to see this
    happened to the WT after all we all learned the truth through them.
    But Jehovah doesn’t accept anything or anybody to take His place in
    our hearts, and it is true the WT portrait itself as this infallible
    thing we all are supposed to follow without questioning anything. The
    organization really demands absolute abidance from all of us.

    • Daisy

      Max…Not unlike the infallibility of the Pope, and isn’t there testimony somewhere from the mouths of the WT that the WTBTS is based on the heirarchical structure of the Catholic church. Think I read that whilst reading jwfacts awhile ago but can’t remember the subject I looked up, sorry.

      • Max

        Are you kidding me? Please look for that information.

        • Daisy

          I will try my best, but I’m terribly tired tonight. Hard day. It figures when you know that all religions are connected to the freemasons and therefore answerable to the Vatican, but I don’t know what I’m talking about really, I’m not ashamed to say so, im so drained at the moment.

          • Max

            You have a good rest then Daisy. By the way I really enjoy your posts.

          • Richard Long

            Daisy, please take care of yourself. We need you here!

        • Observing Quietly

          Max, the description of the WT having hierarchy was given in court during the Menlo Park case. If you research it (It was in the US and court records there are public) when you get to about the middle of the court record the WT lawyer tells the court that JW are just like the Catholic Church in their structure.

          • Max

            Wow! I’ll check it out. In my own understanding of the way the JW are organized I do not see the similarities with the Catholic Church, and if I were the lawyer I would have never made such a comparison. But again the WT it’s changing so fast for the worse.

            • Observing Quietly

              Max, here is the Menlo Park Congregation court documents in PDF format. The aforementioned account of the lawyer for the WT is found on page 4 of the document. This is the actual transcript of the court case. https://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/february-22-2012-court-trial-transcripts.pdf

            • Max

              Thank you for the link. It was very imformative.

            • Beverly kenyon

              In court during the Jose Lopez child sex abuse case Gerrit Losch’s role was described as one of a spiritual leader akin to the Dalai Lama and here’s me thinking we only have one Leader, Jesus Christ! So Gerrit Losch is like the Dalai Lama!

            • Daisy

              Lol. Can’t imagine you as a bent WT lawyer!

            • Francis Bencharles

              Pope- Chairman of the GB, President of Corportation
              Cardinals- Other GB members (Jezebel) and 6 other committee members.
              Archbishop’s- District Overseers (if they still have them)
              Monsignor’s- Circuit Overseers (if they still have them)
              Head Priest- Congregation Overseer
              Priest’s- Elders
              Deacon’s- Ministerial Servants

              I’m sure the Catholic Church has an even more bureaucratic system than the Watchtower due to it’s sheer size, but similar when you scale it.

            • Max

              OMG Francis, you made me laugh ? with that one. But It could be true… You know still it’s very hard for me to make the link between the Catholic Church and the WT. The Catholic Church as an institution is beyond evil. They are more less a cabalistic relegion.

            • Daisy

              Max…And you don’t consider the “deluding influence” more or less cabalistic?

              Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say
              the day of the Lord has begun.
              Don’t believe them if they claim
              to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter from us. . .
              For God sends them a powerful delusion so that they would believe the lie.

              Who practises more wickedness than the man of lawlessness, and
              encourages and promotes and commands others to sin. Who is devoted to destroying others by
              standing in the way of a one-to-one relationship with our Creator through Jesus and who claims Divine honours for themselves, (not unlike the Pope)… rhetorical questions as I’m thinking aloud!

            • Max

              The deluding influence for sure is Satanic in nature. And believe me I do believe of the WT’s apostasy. It had happened before with the Israelites and is happening now with the WT. We always knew the WT arrangement was just a temporary arrangement. The WT accomplished a cornerstone in divine education and it was used by Jehovah to prepare a great crowd that will survive Armageddon and live forever on hearth, so now as we move closer and closer to the end it’s only natural that the influence of the WT will eventually banished to finally let the Great Teacher finish our training and education. What we as JW always believed was that the influence of the WT was going to be terminated by the political governments. Now there is more light and we know by brother King who has put everything into perspective that it will not be the world governments but apostasy what will be the end of the WT. So all of us as loyals servants and sons of the Kingdom should accept that and humbly accept the new arrangement that Jehovah has prepared for all of us.

            • Richard Long

              “What we as JW always believed was that the influence of the WT was going to be terminated by the political governments”.

              Max, my delusion was apparently sooooo much deeper than yours. I believed the WT would be the only thing left standing when the dust cleared after Armageddon.

            • Max

              I remember when I was studying the
              truth in 1987 the brothers had a very clear sense of urgency.
              Everybody talked about the end of this system and that eventually we
              would be left to fence by ourselves due to the fact that the
              organization was destined to be overtaken by the political
              governments. The elders of my then congregation used to say that our
              final test was going to be without any help from the organization or
              even fellow brothers because by then the WT was going to be destroyed
              by the political governments. But let me tell you that in the mid 90s
              I noticed that the brothers in the conventions and even in the
              magazines they started talking about that the organization was going
              to survive Armageddon and that even the anointed ones some of them
              were going to still be alive at least for a time in the NW. Today
              almost all of the friends believe the WT will be the only thing
              standing after Armageddon. I can not imagine the distress and terror
              of the JW when they’ll see that the organization will not be there to
              hold their hands and take them into paradise… and not even mention
              the WT’s apostasy… It will be catastrophic for the majority of the
              friends.

            • Richard Long

              That’s me – baptized 1991. I count it a blessing that my catastrophe has already happened. The fact that I can even speak publicly in criticism of the WT is astounding to me.

            • Max

              Its not just you. I feel the same way.
              I’m not too shocked by the apostasy thing but because of the way we
              have been trained by the WT it is very very hard for me to say
              anything bad about the WT and I feel so sad for what the brothers and
              sisters will have to go through when this whole thing flows. Every
              time I read articles from brother King like the one above my hair
              just creep up and I get goose bumps because I know now what is really
              coming to all of us. We will have to past the biggest test of our
              lives and the tests it just past or fail nothing in between.

            • Huldah

              Hi Max
              My feelings and impressions are a lot like yours.
              Like Richard, I was baptized in 1992 (90’s). I was a teen so limited in what I understood in the 80’s since I was a kid.

              In the past decade, I have delved deeply into the WT, focusing on old articles mainly. I could sense that something happened after the 80’s.
              I don’t trust WT articles after the 80’s. At least I don’t seek look to them aa where the truth shines at its best.

              Funny you saw this shift too.
              Is therw a WT article or pub you could site as to the old attitude.

              Man I wish I could have witnessed the shift as it happened.

              I think maybe this time period was when the “thing acting as a restraint” was “taken away”.

              Thanks for sharing. My morning was anxious and my day was hard, but this morsel of truth was a sweet treat. Glad it was here to find.?

            • The Raven

              I understand how you and many jws feel about that. It’s very difficult to deal with and I could appreciate that sadness even in the way some of them spoke with me about these matters many years ago. I felt sorry even in my state and I knew personally, they still cared about me and others who were “lost”. Some privately felt that the wto was wrong. That’s one of the reasons I still have hope that a good number of the sheep will do the right thing once the wolves are exposed. A lot is happening already.

            • The Raven

              I recall some very odd conversations with the JWs when they came by to speak to me in the early to mid nineties. They already knew about my differences with them concerning prophecy and that I would not “progress” because of it. But when we did speak of these things privately, they mentioned that others had voiced the same concerns and it had come down to serious disagreements within the hall. Bad enough that some active publishers left. When I asked them what they thought of this they told me it was a “sifting and refining” going on. How so?, I asked. They stated that the angels were sorting out their studies ( I was a casualty, I suppose) and Jehovah was sifting out the “goats” from the congregation. I don’t think they wanted to accept that some of their brothers and sisters had already seen what the problems were and simply wrote them off as weak or lacking the proper attitude or faith. But the undercurrents of the truth were becoming evident among a few even then and they did not know how to deal with it.

            • Huldah

              Greetings from San Jose Costa Rica!
              Thanks for asking this question Richard.
              This post was a blessing to me this morning. Quite a day of 4different specialists opening up my gums screwing rods into the posts then unscrewing, smelly concoctions and sticky gooey molds. They even worked in a cleaning. She did a thorough job but it was quite painful due to some damage done by that rotten dental student.
              Thankfully they are masters with novacaine and the other work was not as painful,amazing.
              Now that I got through a 6hour stint in the dentists chair I’m ready to prod Max to tell more.

              I should be dead tired and loopy but I’m actually keyed up. It’s 9pm here which is 6pm to me but I’m going to try to sleep.

              Three days off so I can explore a bit.
              Its 70’s here and cool at night. Rainy season is their winter. Rains from 2-5 or so then gets cooler.

              Hope your heat torture haa let up a bit.

            • The Raven

              I’m glad to know you’re finally getting all that mess fixed. Sorry you had to go through so much pain. I’ve had lots of time in the dentist’s chair shot full of Novocaine too, so I feel for you. But once they’re done you should be much better, I hope.
              Let us know what you find in your explorations. The place sounds nice. Don’t know if you saw it but Robert posted a new essay here:
              https://e-watchman.com/tokens-things-come/
              I think you’ll like it. Take care Huldah. Hope you heal quickly and find time to enjoy yourself there as well!

            • Huldah

              Thanks for your compassion Raven. I can see Jehovah’s hand in this trip. The care that I have received from the people of Costa Rica has gone far beyond kindness. Something tells me Jehovah has a special love for these humble people who care deeply for his creation.
              The devastation I felt this time last year is slowly being healed.
              I’m typing this on the porch of my little cabin in remote Tortuguero.
              The creatures that have been singing all night sound like tinkling windchimes.
              I got to take my 70 year old mom to see green turtles lay their eggs on the black sand of Tortuguero beach.
              By some miracle (or not) we got to watch an endangered Hawks bill turtle lay her eggs too(illegal but the scout made a mistake, a happy accident)
              Our guide, held my mom’s hand and walked her away from the beach after two hours of watching turtles come and go, lay their eggs and painstakingly cover them.
              I have to give Jehovah credit for turning something of hell into something of heaven.
              Right now I need to investigate the noise on the roof. I think its a white faced monkey. It’s 2 am. I love the rain forest at night.

            • The Raven

              Monkeys??!! Haha! Love it! I’m glad you and your mom got to see that. We have turtles lay their eggs here as well and all lights beachside must be off so as not to confuse the hatchlings when they head for the surf. It’s a big deal here too. I wonder about all honest hearted and gentle folks also, Huldah. I’ve known some wonderful people in my lifetime. Close to the earth and very humble and loving. Maybe as this plays out we will see people’s true natures when things get rough. Those who show love for God, His creation and Christ’s brothers. Scripture says we will all be ripe weeds or wheat before we are harvested. I got a feeling we will be pleasantly surprised at who stands alongside. Jehovah look after you, your mom and have fun!

            • Burt Reynolds

              You come across as an old sage Raven, knarled by the ravages of time, weathered by experience like an old oak.

            • The Raven

              That’s kind of you , Burt but I feel more like a fool than a sage most of the time as I learn more about God’s ways.

            • The Raven

              Hi Huldah. Just wondering how things are going for you since the surgery. Drop us a line and let us know, will you?

            • Huldah

              Hi Raven
              It seems that everything is going as planned.
              One implant was slanted. The one up near where they lifted my sinuses. They are confident they can design the crowns to compensate. It’s always scary something may fail. They are confident so that makes me feel better. They are very meticulous.
              Appointments now consist of screwing and unscrewing fittings on the posts to get the exact fit, somewhat uncomfortable but not as extensive as my first appointments.

              We are passing the weekend in Manuel Antoinio Park.
              Tortuguero is on the Atlantic
              MA is on the Pacific.
              Our place is near the park.
              Yesterday Mom was cooking plaintains (we’re practicing cooking them and not finding ourselves very successful?)
              A squirrel monkey came up to the window and started screeching.
              Mom got sime banana and took it out to him and about 6 other monkeys and two babies showed up.
              It was like “When Monkeys Attack”.
              I’ve got video I will try to put on Youtube sometime.

              We got some plaintains to try again so we’ll see if we get some visitors.
              It’s worth eating badly prepared plaintains if they draw monkeys!

              Great place to get minor surgery and not have to sit around worrying on your off days.

            • The Raven

              My mother had a very close Puerto Rican friend in NYC who fixed plantains for us. She would buy the ones that were spotted and almost all black.She would peel them, slice them longways and fry them until they were golden brown. After frying she let them set for a while on paper towels and then she would sprinkle sugar on them. Sometimes some cinnamon too. Really good for a sweet tooth once in a while.
              Those monkeys are cute as buttons but is it ok to feed them since they are wild? Just wondering about it. Have you seen a toucan yet?
              Sounds like a little slice of paradise. Beautiful photos of it on the net.
              I’m glad they’re taking their time and getting this right after all the mistakes and suffering you went through. Nice to know some folks still see the person and not just the money sitting in their offices. That is comforting.
              “When monkeys attack” made me think of this: Try not to attract too many! LOL!

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkGR4vTqcPU

            • Huldah

              Missed your comment while I was away. I neglected my gmail a bit.
              At Manuel Antonio, you can feed the monkeys fruit. They allow it.
              I saw two toucans in the wild from far away. I have a cool pic of them. A silouette of their bodies on a twisty tree with vines.
              I’m determined to get plantains right. I kinda figured they needed to be black.

              I hope to put some video up on youtube. I got an adorable video of the monkey’s baby.

              So relieved to be done with my teeth. It seemed hopeless for a while there. Hard to believe I found a solution and it was successful!

            • The Raven

              I hope the reason you haven’t been commenting is that you and your mom are having too much fun in Costa Rica and feeling a lot better 🙂

            • Richard Long

              “They are more less a cabalistic relegion”

              And, I submit to you that the WT has come under the control of the same influence.

            • Richard Long

              And, Max, what makes the comparison so astonishing is is the WT’s 100 year history of CONTRASTING itself the Catholic Church PARTICULARLY on the basis of hierarchy. Talk about some “new light”. Light has truly become the new dark at 1 Kings Road.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Observing Quietly! You are like a flower that always pops up in due season, and not before! I wish you were a bi-annual, or better yet, a bi-weekly!

            • Observing Quietly

              Thank you Burt, you are a sweet heart.

          • Francis Bencharles

            The Catholic Church, as wicked as it is at least admitted that they had a big problem. They didn’t do a whole lot to fix it other than dole out millions, which is not a fix in the least. But, they have done something that the Watchtower refuses to do, take the blame for a horrible system of handling these monstrous conditions.

      • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

        Yeah that’s true

    • Anderiega

      And yet David did not strike at Saul. May we all imitate David and continue to hide in our caves until Jehovah and Jesus mete out justice.

      (I’m not directing this text to you personally Max….Just joining this conversation as I read all the comments)….It’s easy to become indignant, especially after watching that sad video, but I appreciate how this commentary helps me to remain alert and patient. ?

      • Max

        You know this aspect and quality of David is something we need to
        meditate in and follow example. I have been reading brother’s King
        articles and he never shows hate toward the organization. He only
        denounces in a caring way. We all need to watch our heart so this
        strong information will not weaken us as servants of the Almighty so
        it will not tarnish of hearts with hate and resentment. We have to
        have a lot of spiritual maturity to handle these kind of information
        presented here by brother King. And we all must remember that those
        in the organization are still our brothers and sisters. Brothers and
        Sister which Jehovah loves and cares for as we must do too. As we
        move closer to the end more and more brothers will look for help in
        websites like this one brother King has created. So lets be prepare
        to receive them with kindness and love and help them heal their
        wounds.

  • Andres Felipe

    Good afternoon, my dear brothers. Thank you my brother Robert for your work of helping us to see things as you see them jehova.I believe that we are all aware that we have had to leave our presumption and pride because we were in the “town of jehova”. There are many detestable things that happen and that many bitter and yet the brothers love that tyranny and dictators (Isaiah 1:10; Jeremiah 5: 29-31) .We wait for the moment that the diplomacy and mastery of the WATCHTOWER be silenced for The true presence of Christ in the power of the kingdom. Many sisters have written to me about the state of my family and mine because of the natural disaster in Colombia. I want to tell you that we are well and thank you for your kind attention. Actually the disaster happened to the south of the country and I live in the center. I am pending on the state of the brothers in putumayo. I will tell you. Thank you very much for your Christian love.

    • Marisa Gomez

      Hola Andres, me alegra saber de ti…..estoy absolutamente consternada por el video q acabo de ver……Me pregunto que va a pasar cuando todo el mundo se entere? Donde va a quedar el nombre de Jehova? Que va a pasar con nustros estudios? Aun dudaba cuando algunas personas en este lugar hablaban cosas feas de los que dirigen..pero…..no lo puexo creer? Donde estan entonces los verdaderos ungidos?

      • Richard Long

        She said:

        Hello Andres, I’m glad to hear from you ….. I’m absolutely dismayed by the video I just saw …… I wonder what will happen when everyone finds out? Where is the name of Jehovah to be left? What will happen with our studies? I still doubted when some people in this place spoke ugly things of those who lead..but ….. I can not believe it? Where then are the true anointed ones?

        • Anderiega

          That is THE question…”where then are the true anointed ones?” (“who really is the faithful and discreet slave?”)….We simply don’t know because the Master hasn’t come yet.
          Keep praying for patience, caution, discernment, and wisdom, and faith.

      • Bklyn Kevin

        Who Really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave? Read more>
        https://e-watchman.com/who-really-is-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave/

  • Max

    I just watched the video. How sad that is!!! I know lying like
    that is wrong specially for elders. But if I could say something I
    would say that because the way we are trained by the organization to
    follow it directions no matter what that is the reason why those
    brothers lied. They believe they are protecting the organization. In
    their hearts they do have the best intentions toward what they
    believed to be sacred service to Jehovah through His organization. We
    humans were not made to govern ourselves but to follow Jehovah’s
    commands, so we are natural followers. The organization being set up
    itself as Jehovah’s only voice on hearth its became only natural for
    these men to lie on it behalf and believe they are still rendering
    sacred service to God. No doubt the WT is very much responsible for
    the way those elders handled the matter. Most likely the
    organization has already settled itself deep in theirs hearts. A
    place that should be reserved only for Jehovah God.

    • Burt Reynolds

      I think that is very true. One issue that is coming to the fore is the depth of the deceit. When we read that Jehovah will have to intervene because the deceit is so strong, it would defeat even the anointed, it gives us some idea of how blinded these people are. I think that is another reason that the witnesses seldom look outside of the organisation is because they are uncertain of the truth, so stay with what they know. I think when Morris said at an assembly, ‘stay with us, you’ll be safe if you stay with us…’ It had more of an impact than we might understand and they felt secure in the thought that they don’t have to worry about what constitutes truth, and that the governing body will decide for them. How safe is it to have someone care for you that is ‘spirit led’? In fact, all of it seems set to be more terrible than we believed just a few years ago.

      • to be sure it will only get worse with in the WT organization, i can only imagine how many of our faithful brothers and sisters within the organization may be feeling knowing that things aren’t quite right but not yet knowing the way out however i do take great joy that jehova’h knows who belongs to him and he will make the way out for the faithful.

        2 Timothy 2:19
        19 Despite that, the solid foundation of God remains standing, having this seal, “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and, “Let everyone calling on the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.”

        Proverbs 10:9
        The one walking in integrity will walk in security, But the one making his ways crooked will be found out.

        Jude 1:5
        Although you are fully aware of all of this, I want to remind you that Jehovah, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those not showing faith.

        James 2:14
        Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

        Psalm 27:13
        Where would I be if I did not have faith That I would see Jehovah’s goodness in the land of the living?

        Hebrews 6:12
        12 so that you may not become sluggish, but be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

        Romans 1:17
        17 For in it God’s righteousness is being revealed by faith and for faith, just as it is written: “But the righteous one will live by reason of faith.”

    • Richard Long

      I’ll walk that far down the road with you, if our destination is understanding rather than an excusing. Why? Because it now impossible for me to determine that those brothers testifying were not themselves predators.

    • AMEN.

      Luke 10:27
      In answer he said: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”

  • Jamie Mac

    According to Wikipedia, Jehovah’s Witnesses define apostasy as follows:

    ——————————————————————————————————————————
    Jehovah’s Witness publications define apostasy as the abandonment of the worship and service of God, constituting rebellion against God.[47] They apply the term to a range of conduct, including open dissent with the religion’s doctrines, celebration of “false religious holidays” (including Christmas and Easter), and participation in activities and worship of other religions.[48] Members of the religion who are accused of apostasy are typically required to appear before a congregational judicial committee, by which they may be “disfellowshipped”—the most severe of the religion’s disciplinary procedures that involves expulsion from the religion and shunning by all congregants, including immediate family members not living in the same home.[49] Baptized individuals who leave the organization because they disagree with the religion’s teachings are also regarded as apostates and are shunned.[50]

    Watch Tower Society literature describes apostates as “mentally diseased” individuals who can “infect others with their disloyal teachings”.[51][52] Former members who are defined as apostates are said to have become part of the antichrist and are regarded as more reprehensible than non-Witnesses.[53]
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    Everything Robert outlined in the article they practically condemn themselves with their own definition of apostasy. Black Curtain raised a point about refusing an order, would that be an act of apostasy. I will let all you knowledgeable brothers and sisters provide the answer to that question.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Jesus’ point of view.
      Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say.
      Matthew 23:2-3.Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/23/#v40023003

  • Francis Bencharles

    The worship the Watchtower! If they worshiped Jehovah God through his Son they would not worry about the backlash for telling the truth. They worry more about what Baal will do to them than what Jehovah God thinks of them. That is not a good mindset to be in. Very nice article Robert.

    • sally

      They worry about a lot of things,but apparently do not worry about these poor victims of child abuse that they “can’t remember” or “can’t recollect” when asked about details. How disgraceful is that? You can be sure, that those survivors of abuse do not have the luxery of not being able to remember or recollect their experiences.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Absolutely.

      • Richard Long

        I’m with Burt. One only has to know ONE of these betrayed ones to be completely open to letting the courts seize all WT assets but I would prefer to see the GB rend their garments and voluntarily divest them. (oh, and, you know, maybe…execute the lawyers) Until then, I just get to “wear” their shame. I guess we all do and that;s why we’re all so aggravated by it. Saying I am aligned with the WT makes me feel dirty, unworthy of looking “worldly” people in the eye.

      • Francis Bencharles

        Hi Sally:

        I have sat on committee’s with child abusers in my former life as a JW and I can tell you personally that I would never forget doing so. It is one of the most horrific experiences that you can go through, I assure you! They are unmitigated liars and they lied not only before a court of law, but they lied before the Throne of God and they lied to the Holy Spirit and Jesus as well. That’s the important persons that they lied to. Shame on them, and further shame on the lawyers who coached them to throw away their relationship with God (I hope they repent, but if they follow the example of the Watchtower they will not). especially the lawyers that are also JW’s. I am aghast!

      • Beverly kenyon

        Ouch! Sally.

  • Francis Bencharles

    I just watched a minute or so of that video again and I am totally beside myself (I am nauseated beyond description). What little respect I had left for the Watchtower is totally gone. Every one of those male humans (I cannot call them men) belong in jail. They are wretched individuals. The leaders of the Watchtower should be totally ashamed of themselves, but I know they are not. They deserve whatever they get from their heavenly Father. They think in some demoniacally perverted way that they are doing a service to God, but nothing could be farther from the truth. He is ashamed of them carrying his name.

    • KB

      I was disgusted as well. Here are some Watchtower quotes on the subject of lying when necessary.

      Watchtower 1957 May 1 pp.285-286 Use Theocratic War Strategy
      Use Theocratic War Strategy
      A WITNESS of Jehovah was going from house to house in Eastern Germany when she met a violent opposer. Knowing at once what to expect she changed her red blouse for a green one in the very next hallway. No sooner had she appeared on the street than a Communist officer asked her if she had seen a woman with a red blouse. No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did not. She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy, hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry.
      In this she had good Scriptural precedent. Did not Rahab hide the Israelite spies by both action and word? Did not Abraham, Isaac, David and others likewise hide the truth at times when faced with a hostile enemy? They certainly did, and never do we read a word of censure for their doing so. Rather, we read of their being termed exemplary servants of Jehovah. Their actions were in line with Jesus’ wise counsel: “Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves.”-Matt. 10:16, NW.
      Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies. First of all, let it be noted that whenever one takes an oath to tell the truth he is obligated to do so. By dedicating himself to do God’s will each Christian has taken a vow or made an oath to do God’s will and to be faithful to him. To this oath he certainly must be true. Likewise, when a Christian is placed on a witness stand he is obligated to speak the truth if he speaks at all. At times he may prefer to refuse to speak and suffer the consequences rather than betray his brothers or the interests of God’s work. And, of course, there is no occasion for use of war strategy when dealing with our Christian brothers. In dealing with them we tell the truth or tactfully remind them that what they seek to know does not concern them.
      Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent.
      A great work is being done by the witnesses even in lands where their activity is banned. The only way they can fulfill the command to preach the good news of God’s kingdom is by use of theocratic war strategy. By underground methods the literature is brought into the country and distributed. Would it make sense to hide this literature by one’s actions and then reveal its whereabouts by one’s words when queried? Of course not! So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good.
      Today God’s servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God’s servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God’s kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.

      Watchtower 1960 June 1 p.351 Questions from Readers
      Questions from Readers
      • From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian’s obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given:
      God’s Word commands: “Speak truth each of you with his neighbor.” (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive […] As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies.

      Watchtower 1976 July 15 pp.447-8 Questions from Readers
      Questions from Readers
      •If a Christian must testify in court, is it proper for him to place his hand on the Bible and swear to tell the whole truth?
      […]
      When the courtroom procedure is that of raising a hand or of placing a hand on the Bible when swearing, a Christian may choose to comply, having in mind the Bible examples of accompanying an oath with a gesture. But more important than whether a person makes a certain gesture with his oath is the fact that he is swearing before God to tell the truth. Such an oath is serious. So if a Christian feels that he can and should answer a question put to him in such circumstances, then he is under oath to tell the truth.
      [Emphasis Added]Aid to Bible Understanding (1971) pp.1060-1061
      LIE. The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person. A lie need not always be verbal. It can also be expressed in action, that is, a person may be living a lie.
      […]
      While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. Jesus Christ counseled “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open.” (Matt. 7 :6) That is why Jesus on certain occasions refrained from giving full information or direct answers to certain questions when doing so could have brought unnecessary harm. (Matt. 15 :1- 6 ; 21 :23-27 ; John 7 :3-10) Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab and Elisha in misdirecting or withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light. Gen. 12:10-19; chap. 20; 26:1-10; Josh. 2:1-6; Jas. 2:25; 2 Ki. 6:11-23.
      Jehovah God allows an “operation of error” to go to persons who prefer falsehood “that they may get to believing the lie” rather than the good news about Jesus Christ. (2 Thess. 2:9-12) This principle is illustrated by what happened centuries earlier in the case of Israelite King Ahab. Lying prophets assured Ahab of success in war against Ramoth-gilead, while Jehovah’s prophet Micaiah foretold disaster. As revealed in vision to Micaiah, Jehovah allowed a spirit creature to become a “deceptive spirit” in the mouth of Ahab’s prophets. That is to say, this spirit creature exercised his power upon them so that they spoke, not truth, but what they themselves wanted to say and what Ahab wanted to hear from them. Though forewarned, Ahab preferred to be fooled by their lies and paid for it with his life.—1 Ki. 22:1-38; 2 Chron. chap. 18.

      • Beverly kenyon

        After reading the quote, ‘this does not mean that person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it! Isn’t that called a ‘lie of omission’. And it’s still lying! And they were in court to do with child sex abuse and the disgusting paedophiles so in reality they’re using lie of omission to hide paedophiles! I could be wrong in my thinking.

        • The WT considers it our theocratic duty to withhold information from those not entitled to it. Fine. The Royal Commission was authorized by the state to examine the way Jehovah’s Witnesses handle crimes against children. They are entitled to know the truth. Obviously, the commission knew the elders had been lawyered-up before taking the stand.

          • Beverly kenyon

            Well, Brother King I don’t recognise it’s my duty to wilfully lie and show contempt for the superior authorities as those men clearly did one after another. Lying under oath, if you’re found out here in this country can get a person a charge sheet. Also, Jehovah hates a false tongue which is detestable to him. Proverbs6:16,17. Don’t they know that scripture! I can’t get over how brazen these people are. And in the ‘Insight on the Scriptures’ book, they misquote 2Tim 2:9-12 and likened persons who prefer falsehood to King Ahab who despite being forewarned preferred to be fooled by lies and payed with his life because of the lying prophets who assured him of success. 1Kings 22:1-38. 2Chron18. So there’s a true lesson for them to read about when it comes to lying…it’s a serious sin to wilfully lie and break the law of the land whilst you’re doing it.

            • Richard Long

              Sis, I think Robert was agreeing with you. I know I do. What we all witnessed on this clip was craven CYA and cannot in any way have the spiritual warfare argument applied to it unless we are declaring that pedophilia is part of our worship, which is what this must look like to those outside looking in.

            • Beverly kenyon

              I get what you’re saying Richard. Yeah, when I re-read my post to Brother King it looked liked I was having a dig, but honestly I wasn’t, I was agreeing with his post. I think my first two lines were directed to the WT. I hope Brother King didn’t see my post as having a go. I’m mortified if he thought that! Nooooo. That man saved my life so I’d never do that! My post was really aimed at the WT. Absolutely love that point you made about ‘unless we are declaring that paedophilia is part of our worship’. Brilliant point! Because let’s face it, with all the ducking and diving and the ‘get out clause’….’I can’t remember’….you’re right when you say spiritual warfare can’t be applied. I went to their literature the Insight books and under ‘Lie’ the King Ahab incident was cited amongst other good points and I thought, shouldn’t they be reading and applying the points made. It’s a case of, Physician heal thy self, before you’re telling people what to do! Don’t know if that point is applicable but I feel it’s fitting.

            • Richard Long

              “when I re-read my post to Brother King it looked liked I was having a dig, but honestly I wasn’t, I was agreeing with his post. I think my first two lines were directed to the WT. I hope Brother King didn’t see my post as having a go.”

              Nobody thought this. Speaking only for myself but suspecting none would disagree, clearly this particular evil affects you more profoundly than any other, as obviously racism does me. Would that we could hold you and let you cry your tears to exhaustion as I am convinced you would for each and every of these abused ones if you could.

          • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

            It may be so with men. But not so with Jehovah. Revelation 21:8 all liars thrown into the second death.

        • Burt Reynolds

          I think you are right. But do those elders see it that way? I think not. I think we can get a balance, or more of a balance on this by what Christ said as he was dying. ‘Forgive them father, for they know not what they do.’ There is plenty of room for arguement over the quote and with regard to the religious leaders that warranted it, but all the same, they were misguided. Rather than look at the gravity of the sin….which is undeniable…look at the mindset. We were deceived once.

          • Beverly kenyon

            Burt you’re such a forgiving person but I can’t find it in me to feel that way for now. These men were elders not immature naive young men. These were spiritually mature men but they were wilfully lying as we saw and why were they lying? To cover up for paedophiles and deny justice for the victims of those paedophiles. Can you imagine how some the victims of those vile predators must’ve felt seeing those Elders denying them, the feelings of betrayal by the very ones they respected. Yeah, we were deceived to the max, but we weren’t called before lawyers to lie and deny children and young people justice after they’d been horribly sexually abused by twisted sexually depraved predator monsters! And yes they were all of the same mindset….lie, lie and lie some more for their masters!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Beverly, thanks for your reply. It is both an emotive and difficult issue to describe. But just briefly, because this isn’t about me, but my experience drives my thoughts. I have worked with abused children, seen them sold from a van for the price of a beer, worked with the parents, heard the lies, analysed the incomprehensible thinking for even a clue and my daughter was abused too and has since found refuge in lesbianism. Yet even this does not make me an authority by any means. My later years I worked with adults who beat and abused their spouses. It never ends. So what? Nothing really. I retired wondering more about people than I did going in. The psychology is even deeper; the behaviours more tangled than the imagination can cope with. Neither do I ask anyone to agree with me, because I cannot understand it myself. What insight I did gain, I gained from a blind and deaf chap I worked with teaching the early days of texting on a computer using finger spelling! And it is this experience that gave me a small comment of insight and a (personal) explanation into the current debacle re the watchtower.

              You are of course, correct in the gravity of sin, the permenant disability put upon the victims, the culpability of the perpetrator and the obscenity in reasoning by those that seek to cover it over. I make or support no effort to excuse this from scheming people knowing what it is that they are doing. And you are absolutely right about how the victims feel. Both those who have suffered it, and the distress of those family members that have had to look on at it, powerless to find the actions that may ameliorate. I think if I recall correctly you have been victim to all this too.

              What I do feel that is underestimated, is the blindness, the deafness….the dual sensory loss of those subjected to these entanglements in thinking, that distorts both the spiritual and secular senses, and even perverts the balance of human justice innate in us all. Another such spiritual/secular distortion is seen in the extremist sects that murder in the name of God. Is one act, less or more blind than the other?

              What is common in so many cases is the shift of blame from the perpetrator to the victim….he/she made me do it….asked for it. My point of discussion was that this mindset has been shifted, manipulated if you like, by those that ARE aware, onto those that are not, the hapless elders…those ‘qualified’ in false spiritual, shaded essences of truth, cunningly hidden behind the name of Jehovah, that ‘has to be protected’. That such a mindset can be induced, is illustrated by two very good, but horrific examples. The Manson family, and the holocaust. In the latter instance, thousands of ‘ordinary’ people were induced to murder men women and children. And yet Jehovah will decide who of these will be resurrected . Which one of these had control of thier minds, which ones did not? Who of the abused do we see that go on to abuse children themselves? Is this thier fault? Yes, according to British law! Was it Their choice to do so? Would it have been? Thus it is that unless we extend the same to these people in the congregation, we take the place of the judge, for they, as Anderiega points out so well, they too are victims of victims. So what are they victims of? All of them, indeed all of us, are victims of Satan and the blindness he induces on brothers that think they are acting appropriately. Yes! We should hope that They believe that. For if they don’t believe they are acting appropriately then they are truly evil. But we hope They believe they are supporting Jehovah’s organisation as we wish to. They are decieved…some of them. And as we know, when a person thinks they are doing good, there is no limit to the amount of evil they can accomplish. Example? Irish Catholic nuns and their ‘laundry’ residences for unmarried mothers, who had their children torn from their arms and sold on to others, for money. A resurrection for these child abusers also? How about the British government sending orphans off to Australia as late as the 1960s? A resurrection for them? Thus there is room for hating what they do, not whom they are because we just don’t know. Jesus asked Jehovah to forgive those priests murdering him and Jehovah’s purpose, because ‘they know not what they do’. Jesus recognised that these people ‘did not know’, not that they knew what they did and to forgive them anyway. No. They ‘knew not’ what they were doing. They did not recognise the significance of what they were doing. They, like the elders, were unaware of the meaning of what they were doing and even having access to the scriptures, did not understand it. Deliberately? In some cases maybe, but we don’t know. We only know that Jesus asked Jehovah to forgive them for they know not what they do. I feel duty bound to think the same, though I condemn the evil. That much is safe to do.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hi Burt, you’ve been through and seen a lot of bad things in your life and still you that great compassion and real human forgiveness. Some of the abuse you mention that you dealt with is beyond horrific and human comprehension, my mind cannot process such horrors but especially against children…I can’t make it out! My blood runs cold with fear. Very much like your points about the permanent disability to the victims and dual sensory loss of those men lying through their back teeth and for what?! For now I can’t bring myself to feel an ounce of pity because I know if it was my child and I saw them lying that in their misguided loyalty to the WT and covering up the abus of monsters I’m sorry Burt but I would swing for them as I didn’t see a gun put to their heads! One after another they had mass amnesia with their mantra of, ‘I can’t remember, I can’t recall’. Reminds me of Hitler’s henchmen saying, ‘we were just following orders’. Also, the religious leaders getting the Romans to do their murderous dirty work for them….just following orders! Don’t know about resurrection for the Scribes and Pharisees as they were described as ‘subjects for Gehenna’. Matt23:33. Thank goodness this world is big and it’s going to take a thousand years to raise humans back to perfection as if I somehow make it through to the new Paradise Earth it’s only then I think I would be able to even look at such ones you mention because I would be way over on the other side this vast world. For me it would be a case of euuww, you knock me sick and awkward! I know that sounds childish but it sums it up for me regarding such ones. You’re such a gent Burt and I do get your point of view.

            • Richard Long

              Find what healing you can in Jehovah, Beverly, and do not feel obligated to look upon this particular evil at length. You have seen it, you know it is there. Your condemnation of it and expressions of outrage over it are heard and shared by us all. To continue staring at it, I believe, causes unnecessary injury to your particular spirit, you being in my estimation the gentlest, most caring of persons.

            • Beverly kenyon

              You’re right Richard, I will. Thank You.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Good morning burt I really enjoyed reading your comment this morning thank you.

              More food for thought.
              Judas Iscariot is a clear example of one who knew what he was doing and Jesus read his heart and was well aware that Judas allowed Satan the devil to corrupt his moral compass thus betraying the son of man Jesus.

              In fact Jesus’ even gave Judas a final warning by saying “What you are doing, do it more quickly.” letting Judas know that he Jesus was well aware of his treachery, thus giving Judas an opportunity to come back to his senses , however as we all know Judas did not heed the warning and suffer the ultimate consequences of the second death. John13:27-A.Read more>

              John My son, do not lose sight of them. Safeguard practical wisdom and thinking ability; Proverbs3:21.

              Above all the things that you guard, safeguard your heart, For out of it are the sources of life. Proverbs 4:23.

              For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Matthew6:21.

              John 13: Jesus identifies Judas as betrayer.
              https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/john/13/#v43013001

              Luke 22: “My betrayer is with me at the table”
              https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/luke/22/#v42022001

            • Burt Reynolds

              Thanks Kevin. Yes I agree these examples and their illustrative values. I’m sure that some know what they are doing, even all of them. If there are those that are blind, deaf, or more accurately, blinded and deafened by the machinations of those that stand at the top of the catholic hierarchical watchtower regime, it is those that may be extended mercy. My brother in law is one such example. When I spoke with my sister some time ago on the watchtower approach, she said, ‘oh that’s all sorted now, we didn’t have any of that in our congregation anyway’. I find that insular thinking thoroughly reprehensible…’not in our congregation…’ mirrors the very same attitude as our florid faced elder in the video….’how can we protect all the children in Australia?’ Then there is my sisters firm belief that the watchtower have dealt with it honourably. Is she blind, stupid, gullible, or beguiled by Satan? I hope so, because if it’s the other, then I’m appalled. Utterly. If they know what they are saying, what scope it carries and its meaning, then they are deserving as judas one might assume, my sister and brother in law included. It is those that think they serve Jehovah and have unknowingly, unwittingly abdicated their conscience to the keeping of the watchtower that I appeal to separate from of a blanket condemnation. As Christians, we need to value our brothers and sisters until we know otherwise. Love hopes all things. Those that are deliberate with consent a-forethought, ask for condemnation and rightly receive it from their own hand.

            • Richard Long

              Just moments ago I received a very personal text from one of my local elders inviting me to the memorial next Tuesday. I was reminded that there was no where else or any other way for me to observe Jesus’ command to “keep doing this in remembrance of me” I imagine it will be get in and get out without starting any trouble.

            • Observing Quietly

              Richard Long, I found your comments about observing the Memorial very interesting. Ask yourself, how to the brothers in prison observe? How do those in the hospitals and nursing homes observe? The honest truth is, you do NOT need to be in a kingdom hall to observe the Memorial of Christs death. That is a lie being used to get you to the meeting. Last year, hubby and I observed it at home, privately with lots of prayers to Jehovah and it felt right for us. You may feel differently, but at least you will know that your local elder lied to you about no where or any other way.

            • Richard Long

              Quietly, to clarify – I received an invitation only and the no where/no way else conclusion was drawn by myself. Sincere apologies if my clumsy wording made it seem otherwise. Perhaps it it a lack of imagination on my part that I reasoned since nothing such as restraint or infirmity prevents me from attending at the hall, and since it sits in very close proximity to my home, to do so was logical. Having “only” faded away from congregation life as opposed to a disruption such as a judicial matter, I am not at odds with the body of elders or any of the friends. My get in/get out comment might have been better said: “Given the solemn occasion, I intend to go, observe, and leave in peace, without opening my mouth except to sing”.

              Also, this being the first memorial occasion since awakening a few short months ago, I guess I imagined Robert taking a place in his local hall and partaking of the emblems – DF’d or not – it being a public meeting after all.

              Thank you for being concerned enough for my welfare to come to my defense. I regret giving the impression it was necessary.

            • Observing Quietly

              Not to worry Richard Long, we all need choices and just thought I would share with you ours. Hubby and I faded 2 years ago and they have been the most peaceful and happy two years ever, after having been “active” in the Org for 45 years each for both of us. As to how Robert King does his partaking, well, seems that is a matter for curiosity and no more to me.

            • Richard Long

              “As to how Robert King does his partaking, well, seems that is a matter for curiosity and no more to me.”

              Right! Its absolutely none of my business.

              And be sure your words have stimulated my thinking on the matter.

            • https://youtu.be/c8RmJlwwa0g

              Sending you both my love ❤

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Yes there are those who are just plain naive and will be flogged with a few strokes and shown mercy.,
              But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Luke12:47-A.

              How can Jehovah’s Witnesses be so blind and still be…? Read more>https://e-watchman.com/how-can-jehovahs-witnesses-be-so-blind/

    • KB

      Their privileges in the organization are more important to them than doing what’s right in the eyes of Jehovah. They are only pawns to the Watchtower. They totally think that being loyal to the organization is the same as being loyal to Jehovah. Man are they confused. Used and abused and hung out to dry. A lot of the elders that I know are such company men, they will do whatever Watchtower says in order to keep their positions. This video shows how true this really is.

      • Richard Long

        And further, they are us, and we were they. That’s why its so painful for me to watch.

    • Burt Reynolds

      These elders are weak spiritually and blind spiritually according to the scriptures. They are deluded as far as we are concerned and can be no more to us than deluded unless we can read their hearts and are perfect in ourselves. They are acting in faith, We assume. Some may act out of their own evil I am sure and the best we can do is follow what the bible says. They are at best, perhaps blind, so maybe we should take a leaf out of a blind persons book to see what that means. A blind person will have everything arranged in their room (actually in their mind), so that to within an inch, they can put their hand on it. Their life depends on it often. Move an item and where do they go to look for it? Think on that. Not only do they not know where to look, but they will be confused and in dread of all things that are similar to it, lest it cost them their very life, in cases of food for example. On whom will they depend to guide them? The stranger? Or their known guide with whom they have had trust over many many years. But wait! They are deaf as well as blind, and cannot hear what their guide says even. All is silent and black. Three dimensions now exist only in your feet but they lead you where? You cannot see to read, or hear to understand. And as your remaining senses decay with age, on whom will you depend? And how will you know if you cannot see or hear? These people will only have their eyes opened and their ears unstopped when Christ comes and it is then that they will make their decision, and only then, that they will be judged. But not by us. The deception by Satan will be so great, we need to be aware that we are subject to being decieved in our own senses and values in our attempt to believe we have the truth and are safe. And that is precisely what these brothers think too.

      • Anderiega

        They are victims of victims. The pattern keeps repeating itself….And will keep repeating itself until Jesus steps in and permanently disrupts the pattern.

      • Richard Long

        This reminded me that they are still our brothers and in need of our help, not our scorn. Really, just a few short months ago, I was them, only not actually “doing anything” with the Truth, so they are actually more commendable than I

    • Beverly kenyon

      True Francis. Truth hurts but a lie is much worse! Couldn’t believe what I was seeing and hearing. Revv_zone is right, they’ve set a precedent for lying to save your own skin no matter what’s been done! It was a real eye opener to see one after another lying. And it’s said that these individuals are appointed to their positions by God’s Holy Spirit?! How?!

      • Richard Long

        Maybe that is what we ourselves are having to grapple with – the sheer magnitude of the delusion. We’ve been such pitiable fools! I myself when defending my faith have often stated that the worship of JW’s more closely resembles the worship of the first century Christians than any other body of believers professing Christianity precisely because we have no paid clergy and the evangelizing effort is made by all believers – which on it’s face is true. Upon reexamining that statement, I just feel stupid.

        I had been laboring over some words to contrast my deluded view of the WT with my current view of the WT and they would have been eloquent and insightful, and totally unnecessary. Instead, I express my realization that Satan’s entire system of things is designed as a mechanism to extract the resources of the earth, that belong to everyone alive in equal measure, and convert them, not into something of intrinsic value for the benefit of all, but into assets for the exclusive use of the few in seclusion… and that the WT looks more like that than anything on earth I can compare it to.

        Isn’t this what Robert is telling us?

        • Beverly kenyon

          Yes, Richard, you’re right. When I really think of it I look like one of those kids off South Park…just vacantly staring and blinking! Had to stop watching that series as it was getting really foul and filthy, but those kids stupid faces used to be funny. To this day I can’t believe the delusion but I was of the mind that I knew nothing compared to the knowledgeable ones from the platform, amazing insightful answers at meetings, one with hundreds of bible studies, I was just an ordinary person, a sinner, never quite getting things right and who was I to question but I always felt something wasn’t right, something was off! So happy I now know why but I still love my faith and will tell anyone of the bible truths I was taught, the basics which is what most people can handle really but then if the person want to pursue more or want to delve further then it’s great discussing the things I’ve learnt here on this site. But the reality is my religion is in a proper mess!

    • a very frightening realization of what the watchtower has become at this point. when you watch that video you can clearly see they are no longer run by the G/B they seem to be run by there legal department now bending twisting and breaking gods law just like the Pharisees did back when jesus was among the earth and jesus christ rebuked them back then i can only imagine the much heavier test of faith that the watchtower must endure in the very near future?

      Matthew 23:4
      They bind up heavy loads and put them on the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger.

      Matthew 23:23
      “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was necessary to do, yet not to disregard the other things.

      Matthew 23:12
      Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

    • Richard Long

      I wanted to say that I am pleased to “see” you again and express my very great admiration of the abundant wealth of knowledge you bring here. I am convinced of your deep love for Jehovah and your zeal for his name burns like white phosphorus. Please know that whatever i may have “said” to you in the past, you have my deep respect.

      • Francis Bencharles

        Hi Richard:

        I am getting old and don’t remember as much as I should so I try not to take comments personally, even if they are negative. It allows me to keep space for the important stuff. So your the ONE who likes my comments. Good to hear. I was awakened spiritually by JW’s when I was 19 years old and I am so appreciative of what they have taught me and the relationship that I have developed with Jesus and his Father Jehovah. I will always have an appreciation for them putting me on the road to that connection. However, I could not look the other way about the child abuse and their indefensible position on their protecting abusers and condemning victims for wanting justice for the crimes committed against them. The U.N. affair put me over the edge. I lost all the friends that I had from 19 to 51 years of age that I had made in the truth. You know, after one visit from the Elders from my congregation not one of my friends even called me on the phone. I forgive them for that because I understand that the Watchtower is their God and the Governing Body is their Baal or Lord. That will change when Jesus comes to discipline them and the rest of mankind. I suppose I am also up for some disciplining as well. I accept whatever I receive and will do whatever I am told to do to reconcile myself with the Kingdom of God.

        • Richard Long

          Here we go again. Please know that my respect for your knowledge grows with the knowing of the price you have paid for it!

          …however…

          my previous comments could not have been intended or made ANY MORE PERSONAL if I had PERSONALLY walked up to you and nailed them to the forehead of your PERSON . Your PERSONAL response to Robert’s essays were making ME PERSONALLY want to SHOOT MYSELF IN THE HEAD an d I PERSONALLY said as much to you. If you did not take them PERSONALLY, then my words were to no purpose. If you feel that only ONE person here appreciates your comments and I am that person, your delusion has not lifted.

          What I AM saying is that I SEE you! You are precious, of great value, and have much to offer all of us here. Your genuine zeal for Jehovah’s Name, obvious abundant love and compassion for the friends still asleep, and knowledge of scripture are the envy of me personally and probably many here who have not said so. I want to be your friend. I want to hear your story and help you bear your tribulations. I want to be there taking my strokes along side you when you take yours.

          The reason I don’t quote scripture during these informal discussions is because quoting scripture is serious business. Knowing what a scripture says and knowing what it means are entirely different things. Others here including yourself are quite comfortable doing so and I deeply appreciate the effort and intent of such expressions. Since I cannot understand the prophetic scriptures by myself, I am here for help. Robert’s help. If there is one thing we all here, having awakened from our dream state, have in common it is that we, even you, know bullshit when we read it! Probably not no much when we write it and I apply this to myself also. Given that I must now reexamine every single sentence, word and punctuation I’ve read and accepted from a WT publication my entire adult life I’m a “little” stingy with my dwindling and decaying grey matter. I cannot abide the needless and, frankly, cruel re tangling and resetting of a WT snare Robert has just untangled and freed me from. You do not need my permission to speak your mind. You do not need my permission to speak your heart. What you are being asked to do is consider that, as far as I can tell, this is NOT the “we have the truth and we’re bored so we make up crap as we go and throw in misapplied scriptures so we can say we added something discussion board”. This is, at least to many new people here, the “we are terrified and skinned about because we have just experienced a life-shaking awakening from possibly the most heinous soul-violating, faith betraying delusion of all time ever in the entire universe and we need a reality check discussion board”. Maybe you were that person once or are still? I am! I mean, Satan really screwed us all with this one! There are millions out there either remaining captive or free and scared or angry that Robert is providing a landing place for should they escape . Given that Robert is the one “in contact with the high priest”, should we not let him provide that refuge with out issuing comments that are rebuttals to his essays disguised as supporting arguments?

          We are all free to express ourselves here as we might be moved to do so. Please believe me when I say that the notion of myself, such a base and worldly man whose zest for life is waning, might actually be offering any form of reproof to you, a fine and spiritual man whose zeal burns brighter each day, just seems bizarre. And yet, here we are. I am telling you in front of all here in our informal, virtual meeting place that I love you and having known you to the extent you have allowed me to via your writings I would be less without you and that if you don’t get a clue I’m going to virtually slap you on the back of your head as I would expect you to do for me were I being obtuse, and as Burt has done for me on several occasions.

          Accept my love, or do not. Apply my suggestions, or do not. The only consequence to you will be those of the natural law, that our actions make it either easier or harder for those who love us to continue loving us, which they will do regardless of what we do. May Jehovah bless you and keep you always!

          • Francis Bencharles

            Note Taken.

  • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

    This topic touches on rather very critical issues that encompass the individual JW. You see this video and the entire Australian investigation into the child sex crimes. Opens serious questions that may arise during a judicial hearing before a brothers. Lets say sense the brother’s have lied before God and men by withholding facts. Wouldn’t there actions allow a wrong doer to fo the same si as not to face punishment? .

    • KB

      Totally. Sometimes you have to work the system. I know of some who were dfed, that only went to the meetings long enough to get reinstated. This way they could talk to their family members. Now the Watchtower has gotten wise to this so they now say limit associations with inactive family. I’m so sick of the many unloving rules they pull out of their a55.

      • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

        Its a con game, i personally know an elder and orhers who where sleeping with there wive before they were married, then elevated to higher positions because there family were elders. It will all come out in the wash. Can you just emagine when Christ comes, those that are truly sorrt for hidden things wrll fall at his feet, those who are will try the these fellows have, they well try and shift the blame . I can see it now like the ” I dont remember” will be falling off there lips.

        • KB

          If all those brothers have such bad memories, how on earth can they function in society? I can’t remember if I went to work, or ate breakfast, or put gas in the car. What a reproach on Jehovah, and the way onlookers look at the ” organization”. They made themselves look so utterly stupid. I can’t believe how calm the man who was asking the questions remained, he’s incredible.

          • seriously, good point.
            if i ever ran into one of them
            and heard them speak, id say,
            uh you sure? are you sure about
            that? youre sure you remember?

            • Beverly kenyon

              Lol.

          • Richard Long

            Right? IF anyone had Jehovah’s spirit in that court room, it was the long-suffering prosecutor!

    • Burt Reynolds

      We owe our honesty to Jehovah first and to to all men. Nothing will be left uncovered. If we are in the congregation, or to anyone at all, and have sinned against people, we owe an explanation. The slight of hand that the watchtower gives is to pass the buck back to Jehovah and say they are lying for him to protect his name. As people seeking truth, we tell truth, rather than cover lies to seem as though we are telling truth, no matter to whom it is that we confess. When this applies to watchtower dogma, then even more so would we confess our stand against it as a witness, no matter what the consequences. If you refer to a sinner confessing sins to someone who has no right to judge, or who will not, or is unable to give you justice in spiritual matters, because of their humanity, we none of us have the right to judge each other, because in one way or another, we are all as bad as each other. If we sin, we confess our sin to Jehovah and take the consequences. Let these men do what they will, but be right with Jehovah.

  • woe! iv’e never seen this video i am utterly in shock! we can clearly see the apostasy staging up to take place. after seeing this video i think how much longer could it possibly be before the watchtower out right defies jehova’h in every aspect of the word. doesn’t seem long off at all now does it.

    1 Peter 4:17
    For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?

  • black curtain

    Hi Jamie Mac, just a short follow up to Rob’s reply defining his thinking on the WT. I think that his response was about as good as gets. As he mentioned in his essay, he revised his earlier position on WT apostasy which says that he makes comments as information becomes clearer and is upfront regarding the revision, which I find no fault with, especially if you compare that with the WT’s response of “new light” BS, in fact there is little or no comparison. Given that, I think he has probably made the best call there is at the moment with the info available. Putting his view out there as he does invites dissection, but he does pretty well at coping with that.
    As I said I hope he is right, it would be a game changer though. I have no doubt he checks events regularly to see whether he has hit the target as we all do. As someone has once said someone is going to get all this right whether by chance or inside info. I hope he gets the latter.

  • Marisa Gomez

    Oh my God!!!! Oh my God!!! This is absolutly disr ggustin,,,I cant avoid a pain in my heart and tears rolling down my face.. It can’t be trust?.l .Have they all become liars? And where is the great name of the Almighty.? On the floor!!!! What can I do? Im really angry!!!

    • Max

      Animo Marisa! No podemos ser seguidores de hombres ni de una orgazacion. Mantegamos nuestro vista en el premio y rogemosle a Jehovah nos ayude a ser fieles hasta el fin. Pero comparto tus sentimientos… es muy triste to esto… bendiciones!

      • Richard Long

        He Said:

        I encourage Marisa! We can not be followers of men or of orgazacion. We keep our eyes on the prize and pray to the Lord help us to be faithful to the end. But I share your feelings … it’s very sad to this … blessings!

      • Marisa Gomez

        Thaks so much brother and amen.

  • Jamie Mac

    Nothing is hidden from Jehovah , Hebrews 4:13. I felt very uneasy watching that video, they all seem to be quoting each other word for word. This should be shown in all the kingdom Halls across the world. Yes, can you imagine that. Of course it won’t happen.

    Could we apply psalm 94:3 to this situation. Please let me be aware of other scripture that can be used.

  • Brother Robert iv’e been having a problem trying to log onto your site through google or facebook and twitter however i can log on through only disqus. i get the following error.

    There was an error submitting the form.

    If you’re having difficulty, try repeating the action on https://disqus.com

    • Unfortunately, I don’t have an answer for you. Perhaps try using a different browser?

      • I can log on just fine from my phone right now so I think ur right different browser. Thanks brother Robert.

    • Richard Long

      I’m on chrome. everything a-ok here.

      • yes i think its my browser im going to update it today thank you.

  • Jay

    This is interesting, the Governing body are now claiming to not be inspired. This is in the February 2017 WT study article which will be studied I believe later this month or beginning of May.
    I think I may have some idea why they may say this now, it would be quite interesting to hear other people’s musings on this as I’m not quite sure if it has already been brought up here

    WHO REALLY IS THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE?”

    12. Since the Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible, what questions arise?
    12 The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food. So how can we answer Jesus’ question: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave?” (Matt. 24:45) What evidence is there that the Governing Body is filling that role? Let us consider the same three factors that directed the governing body in the first century

    • black curtain

      It would be really hard to interpret their direction with this one, Jay. A little leak from HQ would help. A couple of things come to mind. Momentous things seem to be going on everywhere at the moment and it is hard for people to keep up with things and find out things that are hard to find (a little Rumsfeld joke).
      With that in mind, are they laying the groundwork for some large policy change (they will call it a doctrinal change) but giving themselves “a get out of gaol” card?

      They also want us to swallow a large piece of suggestion pie, i.e. “Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.” But neither did he say they wouldn’t produce perfect spiritual food. Their problem is- he didn’t say … either.
      They have painted themselves into a corner with a number of different issues. Is this wriggle room? Take your pick, could there be changes to: blood policies, 1914 doctrine, child abuse instructions, preaching work, this generation doctrine, rejoining the UN, giving R.King more fodder to work with?

      • Jay

        Thank you for your interesting reply, i have read your past comments before with great facination and you are certainly very knowledgeable and an asset to this community.
        Did you realise they had said this, that they are not inspired before i brought it to your attention?
        It is very profound I think and shamefully I doudbt that at the moment, JWs will delve into this with critical thinking.
        There is alot of double speech when you look at the context of that watchtower and the ambiguity of the way they say present the wording ‘inspired’, however it can only really imply one thing.
        But it certainly questions the faith of all JWs who have followed the organisation as been ‘inspired’ and holding onto every word and action wether it be a judcial action or blood issue or a stance in war etc etc as if all decisions made is from Jehovah as the Governing body is ‘inspired’.
        I hope to expand my thoughts on this but must get sleep as it’s gone 3am in the UK, these things can be very addictive. I hope to speak with you again soon.

        • black curtain

          Jay thank you for the kind thoughts, and your Anonymous style video’s, they are very damning to WT. I have been a JW for many years but inactive now, and no intention of returning.
          What caught my attention with that WT was the admission of this: “Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters …”

          “it can err in doctrinal matters”, worth repeating, I have never seen that before. Perhaps it is there somewhere in the annals, but I don’t recall seeing it. If the lads at the ARC have “senior moments” regarding memory then I can too.
          As for the rest, KB has just posted what they have been saying for years, that they were not inspired, just guided by Holy Spirit (HS), what’s the difference?

          If you are “guided” is that a weasel word for “inspired”? Does HS force people to write what it wants? I don’t think so, it is given because someone asked for that help to be sure they speak/write truthfully.

          It really seems to be saying that they are guided by (HS) therefore inspired. The correct term for what they have been saying is “paltering”, defined as telling the truth but not all of the truth and deception by implication.

          In fact a classic example of paltering was the claim the elders were chosen by HS??? Was that true? Well sort of, nearly, maybe, could have been, right. But it isn’t. As most realise Paul wrote down the qualities (not qualifications) that men designated for elders needed. Then others would assess them by those qualities to see if they could serve in that role.

          But as we have seen men are chosen by other men with their own agenda’s and best-friendedness. Frequently we have seen that IF the HS had chosen some elders then it had been in the bar drinking on that day and not up to its usual self (not true, of course). The holy spirit has not chosen men to be elders, men do that, it simply provided to give qualities in this case. But the implication was that they had been chosen by HS. The WT also frequently made that claim.

          This was meant to be a short reply as to whether I had seen all this before, in a word, yes. Which tells you it has been swirling around my mind for a long time, and has caused me a lot of consternation with others over the years. But what did Forrest Gump say? @#%! happens.
          My kindest regards

          • Jay

            Dear Black curtain, just had a quick look at your reply and will re-read it later, and may try to add my thoughts to it, but yours is very fascinating and your lengthy reply (not short) is of the highest quality so the time and effort you put into this is taken with great gratitude.
            I’m very new to this, these are all my first few comments on the net, so the example I’m seeing from you and the others on this community is incredibly encouraging .
            Whats found here is so unique and the comments show such insight, love and thoughtfulness that I’ve never seen this elsewhere. I’ve been to many congregations and still do weekly, and i see faces, comments and behaviour which is dead, at some point I will pull away when i get the clear signal, I’m also worried about my address and info been on there file as someone here shared once that it is a possibility where one day it can be turned over to the authorities.
            What country are you from? I use to enjoy my ministry on the carts but got pulled off last year as it was felt i approached people, which wasn’t true, just engaged them and had immense success that others didn’t get as they never put their ‘rods out’. I presume it does boil down to council’s restrictions as like charity’s collecting money you cannot shake the tin or approach people, people must come to you, so i guess as the carts are a fairly new thing the society don’t want to perhaps have that work been curtailed through a complaint from the public.
            I mention this as I’m looking to preach online as well now so i try to go on YouTube and put in some keywords like secret to happiness etc and add comment in the sections.
            If you or others have any suggestions to preach online please share it with me! Robert suggested Facebook been good, but I’ve not used it before and wouldn’t know how i would preach, would it be to my friends on there?
            Ok so all this has been an answer to my many prayers lately, I’ve been lonely in the truth as no one is like minded, Jehovah is very good, the angels are busy watching and looking to help with preaching , so gladly has seen my frustrations, so i hope to comment here more and try to emulate what you all are doing as it is very very special.
            I have a couple of scriptural questions as well that is boggling my mind do you mind if i ask them at some point for some help?
            Have a lovely day my brother.

      • Beverly kenyon

        Brilliant post! Wow! Boom!

      • Daisy d

        Could there be changes to the name. There’s a rumour that could be so. By changing the name Jehovah’s witnesses back to Bible Students, doors shutting in faces might change!
        Are you Jws? No, we’re Bible students, lol. Daisy.

        • Richard Long

          And thereby proving in finality that the name was taken, not received? Or worse, If received, rejected?

          Each day I seem to sense mere strongly there is no need, even danger, in going back.

          • Daisy

            I did say it’s a rumour, a rumbling of wheels in the future! The rumours only based on the new book’s title, “God’s Kingdom Rules!”instead of ” “Jehovah’s Kingdom”.
            And…
            If phasing out God’s name, the rumour suggests that “we are not the *only* spokesperson” speech from G Jackson in court….absurd to think God deals with witnesses or just the GB, they didn’t have a special relationship with him no more than all others, they are no different to the rest of the Christians nations serving the God of the Bible…!
            If this rumour is true, the congregants will be drip fed, slowly, until the information is absorbed into their believing hearts, accepted immediately as ‘new light’ and then there will be an announcement. If…

            • Richard Long

              I believe I get your meaning. This whole thinking for oneself thing is just so damned inconvenient! lol Have patience with the handicapped, will ya? 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              So where would we stand if they reduce themselves to the status of Christendom? No representation of Jehovah any more!?

            • Daisy

              Why wouldn’t you say they aren’t *already* reduced to the status of Christendom my dear brother!
              Hasn’t Robert taught us enough!
              The U.N connection is warning enough of how deeply into Satan’s world they’ve sunk, that alone, and the long list of horrors perpetrated of the sheep under their care, I don’t have to reel them off.
              Does Jehovah need representing.
              Didn’t Jehovah say: “This is my Son, the beloved” and hand over his rulership to Jesus after his death.
              That’s who is representing Jehovah now. Jehovahs will, from that point on , was that all glory goes to Him *through* his son our King.
              Didn’t Jesus say: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word and my Father will love him…” it’s late Burt. Nite

            • Burt Reynolds

              Well yes. But maybe it’s old org training but I thought one main issue, just as it was with the temple, that’s it’s very destruction was a public refute on them. My thought was if the watchtower is nothing more than say Church of England, all its demise is going to get is a shrug of the shoulders in the public’s eyes. I don’t know. You have me thinking now.

            • Daisy

              The WTO is the new GOLDEN CALF!

              Check out The Watchman’s Post;
              The Watchtower Idol and
              The Idolization of ‘Jehovah’s Visible Organisation’.

              Clue: ‘visible’

              Both articles will help you detox from ‘old org training’…you mean indoctrination surely…x

            • “if they reduce themselves to the status of Christendom”

              “Incredibly, while the Society’s public relations department downplays such crimes against children by claiming that the scourge of pedophilia is no worse among Jehovah’s Witnesses than that found in any other religious organization, the Watchtower still unblushingly claims to be Jehovah’s “clean organization” that has been set apart from the defiled religionists of Christendom.”

              https://jehovah-is-king.com/judgment/

              of couse we must continue to represent Jehovah by name standing best we can

              “if” or when reduced – https://e-watchman.com/antichrist-coming/

              Isaiah 10:6 comes to mind

            • “If phasing out God’s name”
              “If this rumour is true”

              Jeremiah 23:26

    • KB

      It’s really not new information. After being told countless times about having Jehovah’s direction, they just believe the governing body are inspired.

      Awake! 1993 March 22 pp.3-4 Why So Many False Alarms?

      Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’ The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah’s Witnesses, has said: “We have not the gift pof prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425) “Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah’s spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157) “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263) “The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)”—February 15, 1981, page 19.

      • Jay

        Dear kB,

        Many thanks, I guess now that the scales have dropped from my eyes it had just jumped out at me which it never has before, but thanks for the wt references as well, i guess it’s just a type of disclaimer for them.
        I guess that when the Governing Body say they are spirit directed,it is because they USE THE BIBLE, which THE MESSAGE from the scriptures, are what IS INSPIRED and is a’ PRODUCT’ OF HOLY SPIRIT.
        Btw i read some of you past comments and the comment you made on shunning was good and worked well in my family worship tonight!
        Jehovah’s Blessings to you.

  • Jay

    Now this is an interesting chap I’ve found on YouTube after typing in e Watchman into the search box, he has an uncanny resemblance to the watchman’s post logo but its a creepier version!
    The subject matter is, ‘who are the Real Apostates?’

    https://youtu.be/qPVySA6s2Qg

  • Jay
  • Jay

    2 Thessalonians 2:3-12New International Version (NIV)

    3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

    5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

  • Jay
  • Brian

    If the message from the very beginning was promoting the Kingdoms arrival at that time and as we know it hasn’t arrived, it just means that it was and is still a part of the apostasy that John had foretold was creeping into the congregations, this is not revealed completely until the “arrival” of Jesus, so everything up until that time still has an element of the apostasy in it regardless of how people may see an organisation or themselves, the letters to the seven congregations in Revelation would indicate that there is a thriving apostasy still up until just before Jesus “arrives” with the Kingdom hence the letters “sent”to them to get in order.

  • Kjetil Stokka

    This is crazy. They say they are Jesus slave and Gods people. But that not mean it is true, all people can say that! Only fools belive it ?

  • Kjetil Stokka

    Total crazy, they write not truth all time, they have change all, and What they preace is not truth, not one thing of What they have said have happening the last 100 years ?

  • Kjetil Stokka

    You coud take every magazine and every book and throw in the garbage ?

  • Yuri

    Hello there all lovers of truth
    Trump just started active military actions against Syria. We enter active phase of WW3. Now it is obvious that just like Robert said years ago World War is beginning. For US and UK it will be devastating. The 8th King almost arrived. WT is going to be destroyed. This will liberate us from oppression of Man of Lawlessness. In Israel where I live we see a lot of military preparations. Nations are preparing to all out war.

    Soon Jesus will come to cleanse JW. Be ready to stand before Jesus. This time will be real parousia.

    Yuri

  • “the apostasy that must come will be an outright refusal to obey Jehovah.”

    thats going to be real trippy to see soon.

    who will continue to obey Jehovah rather then men?

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