seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 10, 2017 at 5:17 pmPost count: 5
~~~~~~ Jehovah’s People during the “latter days” ~~~~~~
~~~~ (the “witness” of Jehovah against His people) ~~~~
And Jehovah said unto Moses:
19. Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach thou it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths,
>>> that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.<<<
20. For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, flowing with milk and honey, and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxed fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and despise me, and break my covenant.
21. And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them,
>>> that this song shall testify before them as a witness; <<<
for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
4. The Rock, his work is perfect; For all his ways are justice: A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, Just and right is he.
5. They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
12. Jehovah alone did lead him, And there was no foreign god with him.
15. But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: Thou art waxed fat, thou art grown thick, thou art become sleek; Then he forsook God who made him, And lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16. They moved him to jealousy with strange gods; With abominations provoked they him to anger.
17. They sacrificed unto demons, which were no God, To gods that they knew not, To new gods that came up of late, Which your fathers dreaded not.
19. And Jehovah saw it, and abhorred them, Because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters.
20. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness.
21. They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
27. Were it not that I feared the provocation of the enemy, Lest their adversaries should judge amiss, Lest they should say, Our hand is exalted, And Jehovah hath not done all this.
28. For they are a nation void of counsel, And there is no understanding in them.
29. Oh that they were wise, that they understood this, That they would consider their latter end!
12. Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith Jehovah.
13. For my people have committed two evils: they have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
19. Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and a bitter, that thou hast forsaken Jehovah thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord, Jehovah of hosts.
21 Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate branches of a foreign vine unto me?
22. For my people are foolish, they know me not; they are sottish children, and they have no understanding;
>>> they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23. But this people hath a revolting and a rebellious heart; they are revolted and gone.
26. For among my people are found wicked men: they watch, as fowlers lie in wait; they set a trap, they catch men.
27. As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxed rich.
28. They are waxed fat, they shine: yea, they overpass in deeds of wickedness; they plead not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, that they may prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.
29. Shall I not visit for these things? saith Jehovah; shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?
30. A wonderful and horrible thing is come to pass in the land:
31. the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so:
>>> and what will ye do in the end thereof?
19. Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people,
>>> even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.
3. Thus saith Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.
4. Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah, are these.
5. For if ye thoroughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye thoroughly execute justice between a man and his neighbor;
6. if ye oppress not the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your own hurt:
7. then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, from of old even for evermore.
8. Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
9. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods that ye have not known,
10. and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered; that ye may do all these abominations?
11. Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen it, saith Jehovah.
20. Therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, mine anger and my wrath shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
34. Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride; for the land shall become a waste.
Jeremiah 9 :
3. And they bend their tongue, as it were their bow, for falsehood;
>>> and they are grown strong in the land, but not for truth:
they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith Jehovah.
4. Take ye heed every one of his neighbor, and trust ye not in any brother; for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbor will go about with slanders.
5. And they will deceive every one his neighbor, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies; they weary themselves to commit iniquity.
6. Thy habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me, saith Jehovah.
7. Therefore thus saith Jehovah of hosts, Behold, I will melt them, and try them; for how else should I do, because of the daughter of my people?
8. Their tongue is a deadly arrow; it speaketh deceit: one speaketh peaceably to his neighbor with his mouth, but in his heart he layeth wait for him.
9. Shall I not visit them for these things? saith Jehovah; shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?
3. O my mountain in the field, I will give thy substance and all thy treasures for a spoil, and thy high places, because of sin, throughout all thy borders.
14. In the prophets of Jerusalem also I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies; and they strengthen the hands of evil-doers, so that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them become unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
15. Therefore thus saith Jehovah of hosts concerning the prophets: Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall;
>>> for from the prophets of Jerusalem is ungodliness gone forth into all the land.
16. Thus saith Jehovah of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they teach you vanity; they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of Jehovah.
17. They say continually unto them that despise me, Jehovah hath said, Ye shall have peace; and unto every one that walketh in the stubbornness of his own heart they say, No evil shall come upon you.
18. For who hath stood in the council of Jehovah, that he should perceive and hear his word? who hath marked my word, and heard it?
19. Behold, the tempest of Jehovah, even his wrath, is gone forth, yea, a whirling tempest: it shall burst upon the head of the wicked.
20. The anger of Jehovah shall not return,
>>> until he have executed, and till he have performed the intents of his heart:
>>> in the latter days ye shall understand it perfectly.
12. Then the angel of Jehovah answered and said, O Jehovah of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten (70) years?
36. And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods; and he shall prosper
>>> till the indignation be accomplished; for that which is determined shall be done.
24. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles,
>> until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
1. O God, the nations are come into thine inheritance; Thy holy temple have they defiled; They have laid Jerusalem in heaps.
2. The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be food unto the birds of the heavens, The flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.
3. Their blood have they shed like water round about Jerusalem; And there was none to bury them.
4. We are become a reproach to our neighbors, A scoffing and derision to them that are round about us.
5. How long, O Jehovah? wilt thou be angry for ever? Shall thy jealousy burn like fire?
6. Pour out thy wrath upon the nations that know thee not, And upon the kingdoms that call not upon thy name.
7. For they have devoured Jacob, And laid waste his habitation.
1. O God, keep not thou silence: Hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
2. For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult; And they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
20. If we have forgotten the name of our God, Or spread forth our hands to a strange god;
21. Will not God search this out? For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.
22. Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
23. Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? Arise, cast us not off for ever.
24. Wherefore hidest thou thy face, And forgettest our affliction and our oppression?
6. Many there are that say, Who will show us any good?
Jehovah, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us.
14. I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry out like a travailing woman; I will gasp and pant together.
15. I will lay waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and will dry up the pools.
16. And I will bring the blind by a way that they know not; in paths that they know not will I lead them; I will make darkness light before them, and crooked places straight. These things will I do, and I will not forsake them.
16. But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, And that thou hast taken my covenant in thy mouth,
17. Seeing thou hatest instruction, And castest my words behind thee?
18. When thou sawest a thief, thou consentedst with him, And hast been partaker with adulterers.
19. Thou givest thy mouth to evil, And thy tongue frameth deceit.
20. Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; Thou slanderest thine own mother’s son.
21. These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; Thou thoughtest that I was altogether such a one as thyself:
>> But I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
6. and have sold the children of Judah and the children of Jerusalem unto the sons of the Grecians, that ye may remove them far from their border;
7. behold, I will stir them up out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompense upon your own head;
18. Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.
19. Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I send? who is blind as he that is at peace with me, and blind as Jehovah’s servant?
20. Thou seest many things, but thou observest not; his ears are open, but he heareth not.
21. It pleased Jehovah, for his righteousness’ sake, to magnify the law, and make it honorable.
22. But this is a people robbed and plundered; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison-houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
23. Who is there among you that will give ear to this? that will hearken and hear for the time to come?
24. Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not Jehovah? he against whom we have sinned, and in whose ways they would not walk, neither were they obedient unto his law.
25. Therefore he poured upon him the fierceness of his anger, and the strength of battle; and it set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart.
8. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people; and they shall say, Jehovah is my God.
6. In that day, saith Jehovah, will I assemble that which is lame, and I will gather that which is driven away, and that which I have afflicted;
7. and I will make that which was lame a remnant, and that which was cast far off a strong nation: and Jehovah will reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth even for ever.
8. And thou, O tower of the flock, the hill of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, yea, the former dominion shall come, the kingdom of the daughter of Jerusalem.
7. But as for me, I will look unto Jehovah; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.
8. Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, Jehovah will be a light unto me.
9. I will bear the indignation of Jehovah, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.
10. Then mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her who said unto me, Where is Jehovah thy God? Mine eyes shall see my desire upon her; now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets.
22. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: I do not this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for my holy name, which ye have profaned among the nations, whither ye went.
23. And I will sanctify my great name, which hath been profaned among the nations, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am Jehovah, saith the Lord Jehovah, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24. For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land.
1. O Israel, return unto Jehovah thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.
2. Take with you words, and return unto Jehovah: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and accept that which is good: so will we render as bullocks the offering of our lips.
3. Assyria shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses; neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods; for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy.
4. I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely; for mine anger is turned away from him.
8 Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have answered, and will regard him: I am like a green fir-tree; from me is thy fruit found.
9 Who is wise, that he may understand these things? prudent, that he may know them? for the ways of Jehovah are right, and the just shall walk in them; but transgressors shall fall therein.
8. And the daughter of Zion is left as a booth in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
9. Except Jehovah of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
24. Therefore saith the Lord, Jehovah of hosts, the Mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies;
25. and I will turn my hand upon thee, and thoroughly purge away thy dross, and will take away all thy tin;
26. and I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called The city of righteousness, a faithful town.
27. Zion shall be redeemed with justice, and her converts with righteousness.
28. But the destruction of transgressors and sinners shall be together, and they that forsake Jehovah shall be consumed.
Jeremiah 31 :
1. At that time, saith Jehovah, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.
11. For Jehovah hath ransomed Jacob, and redeemed him
>>> from the hand of him that was stronger than he.
12. And they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow unto the goodness of Jehovah, to the grain, and to the new wine, and to the oil, and to the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.
9. We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country; for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies.
10. Jehovah hath brought forth our righteousness: come, and let us declare in Zion the work of Jehovah our God.
7. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that they shall no more say, As Jehovah liveth, who brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8. but, As Jehovah liveth, who brought up and who led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all the countries whither I had driven them. And they shall dwell in their own land.
7. And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
8. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my lord, what shall be the issue of these things?
9. And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end.
10. Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but they that are wise shall understand.
11. Moreover the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond-tree.
12. Then said Jehovah unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I watch over my word to perform it.
17. Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
1 Corinthians 10:
11. Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
12. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
23. Thus saith Jehovah, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches;
24. but let him that glorieth glory in this, that he hath understanding, and knoweth me, that I am Jehovah who exerciseth lovingkindness, justice, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith Jehovah.
14. Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right to come to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.
15. Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.
.seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 12, 2017 at 7:57 amPost count: 5
— The Kingdom of God – when in Heaven ? —
—– according to Jesus’ teaching —–
Jehovah / YHWH is a God of order.
He decided a certain place for that teaching called in Bible “the teaching of Christ”
In order for us to understand the weight of Jesus words ,
it is very important for us to find the place decided by God for the “teaching of Christ”
The “teaching of Christ ” – what is it , and why is it so important ?
2 John 1:
9. “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God;
whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.”
God’s spirit lead us to see the importance given by Jehovah Himself to Christ’s teaching !
But first , what is this teaching ?
— Jesus answered to us :
16. Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.”
Again we see , apostle John wrote leaded by spirit (John 1 )
17. “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. ”
Jesus Himself said regarding to all His Father’s word (including the written word in the O. T. ) :
17. “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. ”
The question is : if God’s word in O.T. is truth , why ap. John said “…the truth came through Jesus Christ” ?
As we can see , the knowledge/teaching God has sent through His Son has priority, or has a special importance !
Not Jesus , nor ap. John decided that , but Jehovah Himself !
Let us hear His voice :
Matthew 17 :
5.”While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said,
“This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
Now , what is to be understood through the expression “teaching of Christ” (only a part of what He preached )?
Let Him answer to us :
Mathew 28 :
20. “and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matt.28.
— we are today under the same Jesus’ commandment !
Apostle Paul agrees with this priority/importance given by Jehovah to the teaching of Christ:
Hebrews 1 :
1. “In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2. but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe……”
also Hebrews 12 :
24. to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
25. See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? ”
It has been prophesied that in the “latter days” there will be a certain action inside/within God’s people :
Daniel 8 :
10. It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them.
11. It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low.
12. Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
13.Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
As we can see ,the truth is thrown down during the 2300 evenings and mornings. God’s promise is , “then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
The action of reconsecrating takes place when Jesus is present at the Temple !
When Jesus begins his action , He finds “the truth”-the correct understanding of His teaching– down !
So He have to re-put His teaching to the place decided by Jehovah Himself !
It is written at Acts 3 :
21.”He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.”
When Jesus starts his second presence , He does like that :
Revelation 3 :
20. “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.”
Also in Luke 12 :
37. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching:
verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them sit down to meat, and shall come and serve them.
What do you think He will serve at the table to those watching when He comes ?
— Exactly the correct understanding of “the teaching of Christ” !
——–THE KINGDOM OF GOD———-
Jesus preached this Kingdom as it follows:
Matthew 4 :
17. From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”
15. “The time has come,” he said.
“The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!”
WHAT is God’s Kingdom ?
According to Jesus words
Matthew 6 :
10. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.
…we see that His Kingdom means the state where His will is done !
And surely it implies a certain order made by God .
This “order” means a certain structure of authority between God’s heavenly and earthly creatures, of course , made by God, or according to His will !
So, Jesus named this kingdom as being
— OF GOD and
— OF HEAVEN
What means that ?
Of course, it means
— this kingdom belongs to God (YHWH ), it originates/comes from HIM !
— its place of birth is in Heaven , there is its capital city of residence , from there it will be extended all over the God’s creations .
That means , the Kingdom of Heaven CAN EXIST IN HEAVEN even not being come yet on earth.
But what the “Heaven” is ?
People often would think it is all the space from where human eye cannot see further.
Well , let us see a scripture :
Psalm 33 :
13. From heaven the LORD looks down
and sees all mankind;
14. from his dwelling place he watches
all who live on earth-
Job 1 :
6. One day the angels came to present themselves
before the LORD , and Satan also came with them.
So , when the Kingdom of God and of Heaven gets start , it start in Heaven, where is God’s “dwelling place” , and “before the Lord” where sometime the angels present themselves….
Now let us see Jesus teaching about this kingdom…:
— “the Kingdom of Heaven is near”… means it was THEN near , when Jesus was on earth !
–(Matt.12:28 ) : But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
… that means God’s kingdom WAS ACTIVE in Heaven at the moment when Jesus was speaking/ when He was on earth !
YES , when Jesus WAS on earth the Kingdom WAS active in Heaven , even it was not fully installed “: the future King was on earth , not raised at God’s right side yet !
37. “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You are right in saying I am a king.
…Jesus was King then !
Furthermore Jesus taught his followers how to pray the Father
10. Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.
IF we believe that Jesus words are the truth ,
then we believe that He taught us that
as the Kingdom was already on Heaven,
and God’s will was done there,
our prayer(and desire also) to be :..”let (this God’s order and state where His will is done) come on earth”
surely Jesus did not say “Thy will be done ..on earth ..as it will be done in Heaven some time in the future..”
Now we can correctly understand what Jesus meant when He said
Matthew 16 :
28. Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in (into) His kingdom.
The Son of Man was seen “coming” into His Kingdom at Pentecosta , when the earth / his followers on earth / received the confirmation from the Holy Spirit that He has been exalted and enthroned – in full power in Heaven – !
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS ??
WHEN WHERE THEY THROWN OUT OF HEAVEN ??
–(John 12:31) “Now is the time for judgment on this world;
now the prince of this world will be driven out….
… where out ? literally stick on earth ?
— NOT ! but “driven out from “God’s dwelling place”, out from “before the Lord” where they could go before Jesus came on earth !
–( Luke 10:18 ) He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
— apostle John said regarding Satan using past tense :
…( Rev 9:1 ) “The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth.”
WHILE Jesus was on earth He was spiritually fighting against Satan , but the very moment of overcoming him was at the moment of His death !
— a short time before His martirio , Jesus said (John 16:33)
“…I have overcome the world.” — inclusive its god !
Apostle Paul agrees with that Colossians 2:15:
“And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.”
So it is absolutely sure ,
The Kingdom of God and of Heaven get started in HEAVEN at that time when Jesus accomplished his service on earth , and immediate after his resurrection He received all power !
Jesus said ( Matthew 28 )
18. Then Jesus came to them and said,
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”
What could retain Jesus from using all authority
starting with that time ?
— Nothing could retain Jesus from using this authority in Heaven !
BUT as concerns earth , YES , something retained Him !
What ? —
— It was Father’s will – as prophetically expressed in Psalm 110
1. The LORD says to my Lord: ( at His enthronement )
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
Well , but WHY this scripture is to be applied only concerning the earth , and not also for Heaven ?
— IT IS because we believe Jesus’ teaching !
— HE taught us that His enemies were already thrown out of “Heaven” at the moment of His exalting at the right side of the Glory
Well , at Pentecosta ,the Holy Spirit enlightened the first christians to understand ..(Acts 2 )as Peter said :
32. God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.
33. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
34. For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35. until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
36. “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this:
God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Well , here the word “KING” did not appear , but Jesus being “exalted to the right hand of God” and using “all authority in Heaven” , IT MEANS HE WAS KING IN HEAVEN !….as He said it to Pilat…
BUT REGARDING EARTH ??
Jesus said he received also “all power on earth”.
So , was it something who retained Christ from using His “all power” on earth ?
— YES ! It was YHWH’ will , exprimed prophetically in Psalm 110:1 and correctly quoted and understood by apostle Peter at Pentecosta !
Now , we are able to understand correctly God’s words in Psalm 110:1,2
1. The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand (and rule in Heavens)
until I make your enemies ( found now “out” of Heavens )
a footstool for your feet.”
2. The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion;
you will rule in the midst of your enemies.
God said to Jesus “sit at my right hand” that is
–to sit on throne and to use/exercise “all power recently received” IN THE HEAVEN , ruling as KING ,
–BUT to wait regarding the earth ” until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” !
How so ?
As Jesus taught us already , in Heaven were not enemy at His exalting moment , they were OUT OF HEAVEN !
OUT of the place were the Kingdom was ruling !
BUT WHERE were they ?
-ON EARTH – the visible enemies ,
— and “in heavenly realms” the invisible ones , as ap.Paul said in Ephesians 6 :
12. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities,
against the powers of this dark world and against the
spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Well, are not this “heavenly realms”, “the Heaven” where the Kingdom is ?
As I said , THE HEAVEN where God’s Kingdom is ruling , is “before the Lord” and Devil with his followers are somewhere FAR AWAY (beyond) FROM THAT PLACE !
Now we see that the following God’s words “until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”
… referes to the time and situation when YHWH will give both the permission and the commandment to His King to START REIGNING OVER THE EARTH , where the enemies are now !
That action of His starting reigning over earth is prophetically shown by the words “Christ returning” or “Christ’s (second)coming”.
These knowledges debated here are necessary for further understanding of other prophetical passages and prophecies which are to happen on earth , as the Revelation 12 , for instance .
Because Christ started ruling in Heaven immediately after his ressurection , according to the”teaching of Christ”, there is no place for such interpretations which leads to conclusions as 1874 or 1914 or other years as the time for Christ starting to rule in Heaven.
with great respect for Jehovah, and His enthroned King , Jesus Christ,
Seeker.seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 12, 2017 at 8:01 amPost count: 5
Has God An Organization On Earth Today ?
I have read the Bible .
I have never found the word “organization”, nor the fact that God would ever had or has an “organization” on earth .
The humans want to understand through the word “organization” God’s theocratic arrangement. BUT what really would fit with this word (organization), it is found only in Heavens !
God’s Organization (theocratic arrangement) is in Heaven and it is Heavenly.
And when Jesus Christ came on earth , he did not call it “God’s organization” but God’s KINGDOM !
And he taught us that Father’s will is that this Kingdom to come on earth.
And he taught us to pray for that.
And because Father commanded to Jesus followers to “obey the Son” (Matt.17:5), we are praying until today “Let Your Kingdom come…”
That is the most powerful proof that “God’s Organization” is not on earth today, because we all admit that His Kingdom is not here yet !
Well, but then , what does God has on earth ?
He says He has a people !
But has He always had “a people” on earth ?
NO ! because the history of His chosen people begun with God’s “pulling his people out of Egypt”.
So, before of that event God had individuals and “family” .
When the Israelites entered in Egypt they were a “family” (of seventy souls). And there they become a “people”.
And what God always had on earth are “human souls” because He is the OWNER of them … Ezekiel 18:4
“Behold, all souls are Mine;
the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine
The soul who sins will die.”
What is God doing “always” is as it follows :
“The LORD looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.”
So, we can say that “always” God has been having on earth individuals who “seek after Him”, to know (understand) Him – but not “organization”!
Now , Jesus has formed the “Christian community” within which God’s Kingdom has to come .
And how does He did it ?
To the “two greatest commandments” (to love God…and the neighbor) Jesus has added another one through which He fixed the “center” of the “Christian community”.
As a planet is formed by firstly fixing its “center/point of gravity” so did Jesus:
He gave “a new commandment” to His followers:
34.“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Through these words Jesus has fixed the “center of gravity” for the Christian community !
There was never need for a human “organization” to keep His faithful ones united !
That commandment works (like a gravitational force) in those who really have faith in Jesus and it produces unity (not uniformity).
Within this (worldwide) “community” (or ekklesia) the Heavenly Kingdom of God will “come on earth” in short time / at God’s established time.
Regarding the much used phrase:“God doesn’t deal with individuals, only with his organization” there is an inspired scripture proving how God deals with men:
“When He keeps quiet, who then can condemn?
And when He hides His face, who then can behold Him,
>>> That is, in regard to both nation and man. ”
So, Jehovah deals with “both nation and man”/ individuals and group of individuals/people/nation (his people)…
… while He may be “at peace” with a certain His servant , at the same time He may be “angered” over His nation , as a “whole”
… while He may be “at peace” with His “people” , He may manifest His anger over a certain “individual” who proves to be “law transgressor”
Seeker.seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 18, 2017 at 4:28 pmPost count: 5
The basis for understanding “with spirit” of the Bible prophecies
Jehovah/YHWH is a God of order !
He stored a lot of knowledge (containing many “jota” ) in His word (the Old Testament)
John 17:17 ; Matt.5:17,18 .
Jehovah fulfills His word/jota of prophecies in a certain order , according to His will .
Firstly He commands to all of us to OBEY His Son
Matthew 17:5 “While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said,
“This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.
Listen to him!”
— Simply, because through him He has sent to us (humankind) “the truth”
John 1:17 “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. ”
Everything Jesus has taught us is called “the teaching of Christ”
Matthew 28:20 “and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
2 John 1:9 “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God;
whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.”
The “teaching of Christ ” – why is it so important ?
John 7:16 Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.”
It is clear, “the teaching of Christ” is in fact “Father’s teaching”, the knowledge Father has sent to us through His Son Jesus Christ when he came on earth .
As we can see , the knowledge/teaching God has sent through His Son has priority, or has a special importance (importance settled by Father in Matthew 17:5) !
Not Jesus , nor ap. John decided that , but Jehovah Himself !
Now, the prophecies has been written in a “literally” way , and during the time before Jesus coming on earth they were understood (or taken) so as they were written (that is, “literally” )
While Jesus was on earth He has taught something new : that His Father wants worshipers “with spirit and with truth” John 4:23,24
… that implies that the prophecies are being given a certain understanding or “value” (interpretation) according to Father’s will
The WILL of Father was expressly sent to Daniel , through a special messenger, in a vision, regarding a main prophecy which shows a great “disaster” or “war” or “tribulation” … Daniel 10:1
The Messenger said:
“Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall
— thy people
— in the latter days:
for yet the vision is for many days.”
Jesus knew Father’s word and will, and worked accordingly to it.
Now, Jesus (according to my knowledge) did not quoted these words, but he acted according to them …
He said he came to “fulfil [the law] and the prophets” … Matthew 5:17,18
… and also He was sent only to the House of Israel Matthew 15:24 ; John 1:11
… so, He had to fulfil the prophecies with, or within, or among, or concerning “the House of Israel”
Everything He quoted from “prophets” He put it into correlation with the nation He was sent to !
… no connection was made by Jesus between the inspired prophecies and political powers that had been, or there were or had to come after the time when Jesus was on earth !
So the fulfilment of the prophecies should be looked for within (events regarding)
— God’s people
— during the “latter days” according to the clear expressed will of Jehovah
So, to make a short resume , “the teaching of Christ” is the basis for correct understanding prophecies “with spirit”
… yet , we need something more …
Jesus said He did not taught “everything” his disciples for a certain reason
see John 16:12,13,14,15
… later, Jesus, in Revelation gave us also a KEY to help us in our research for the truth of prophecies ..
” And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,…”
” And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, LORD God Almighty( Jehovah Exo 6:3; Rev 19:6 ) ; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.” Quote from DNKJB
We see that (at the time of Jesus “second” coming) those approved by God are singing a “new Song”, that is the Song of Moses !
The Song of Moses is the Song Jehovah has given to Moses … Deuteronomy 31:19-21;32:1-43
This Song is also named “the song of the Lamb” — how so ?
Simply , it is Jesus who “come to” fulfill this Song — during the “latter days” Jesus is implied in the fulfilling of this Song .. or He is watching that any “jota” of this Song to be accomplished Jeremiah 1:12
So … no interpretation of any prophecy can change the “teaching of Christ”, but has to be within the confines settled by ‘the teaching of Christ” …
and… the “key” for correct understanding of the prophecies regarding God’s people during the “latter days”
is being given by Jesus (in Revelation), and it is called “the Song of Moses” !
All “followers of Jesus” should (do as Jesus did) search for the “spiritual” fulfilment of the prophecies, that is, within (or among) Jehovah’s people , during the “latter days”seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 23, 2017 at 3:25 pmPost count: 5
I see the necessity to go ahead in speaking the things I understand….
when the man of God approaches on Bible’s prophecies he must understand some of the things about God who “uttered” them
1) Proverbs 25 :
2. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing;
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter. ASV
2. It is the glory of God to conceal a matter;
to search out a matter is the glory of kings. NIV
clearly we see the way God have done His prophecies , by “concealing” their meaning/understanding .
Job 34 :
29. When he giveth quietness, who then can condemn?
And when he hideth his face, who then can behold him?
Alike whether it be done unto a nation, or unto a man: ASV
we see that God has two kind of “relationship” with men :
– individually , or He “works” with a (single, each) man/person
– colectivelly as a “people” or a “nation”/He works with/within the entire nation as “one”
from the above scripture we may understand that God may be “wrathfull” on/over a nation/people , but in the meantime be in “peacefull relationship” with an individual of that people/nation .
example : God became wrathfull over Jews as the entire nation and delivered them to Babylonians ,
while He had a peacefull relationship with Daniel and his 3 friends , Jeremiah, (etc.) taking care of them (but the fact that God took care of them doesn’t mean they weren’t taken captive …as members of that nation / or to be at peace with his nation while He punish each wicked single one )
14 For God does speak
— now one way, now another —
though man may not perceive it. ASV
we see that God may and surely He did speak “now a way” then in “another way” , but regarding the same things/events/situations/etc.
firstly, God is speaking this way because of His glory of “concealing” the things
secondly, the truth/ the way God is seeing the realities from His high point of view is so deep and so complex , that is necessary to be spoken about it in many/several ways as to reveal more or all aspects of it
let us see an example
to Gog of Magog Jehovah has said…Ezekiel 38
17. ” ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
Are you not the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel?
At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them.
well, Jehovah has spoken about him (Gog) through His (several) prophets , but where ?
I will tell you here only one (other) prophet : Isaiah 14:1-19.
please give attention to the verse 16 :
16 They that see thee shall gaze at thee, they shall consider thee, saying,
Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;…?
it comes again to be repeated the importance God , the Father, is giving to the “teaching of Christ”
see the first post on this topic …
God is setting His own order as the way of interpreting His own prophecies
— while all God’s word is truth , and it (OT) forms the “ground” for the teachings of Jesus ,
— the Father decided and ordered that we must obey His Son / Matt.17:5 … by these words He emphasises Jesus teachings as “the foundation” for further understandings from prophecies
indeed , through Jesus, the Father has teached us something new :
— He is spirit , and He wants “worshipers with spirit and with truth”
that implies a “way” of taking/considering the prophecies , “with spirit” , or “according to Father’s will”
— Jesus is come “to fulfil … the prophecies” / that means the prophecies does have their (spiritual) fulfilment “in Christ”
at that point I want to say that during the time , many christians have seen many similarities between different prophetic parts … and events of the world, and they concluded that that was the “interpretation” or the “fulfilment” of that prophecy ..
this way of reasoning have produced many errors in which both Bible Students , as also Jehovah’s witnesses are continuing untill today !
1 Samuel 16
7. (But Jehovah said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have rejected him )
for Jehovah seeth not as man seeth;
for man looketh on the outward appearance,
but Jehovah looketh on the heart.
we must attentively consider the above statement when searching the prophecies
there may be men/peoples living within His people , but God is addressing to them as “his enemies” , and they are such , because God is seeing their hearth / pay attention to that .
We find written by Paul … (1 Tess. 5 )
20. do not treat prophecies with contempt.
21. Test everything. Hold on to the good.
22. Avoid every kind of evil.
20. Do not spurn the gifts and utterances of the prophets [do not depreciate prophetic revelations nor despise inspired instruction or exhortation or warning].
21. But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.
22. Abstain from evil [shrink from it and keep aloof from it] in whatever form or whatever kind it may be.
I quoted the second trans. because it seems to exprime better some thoughts
— while God has decided that the prophecies will happen during “the latter days” , the inspired instruction to the christians was to “do not treat prophecies with contempt”, but to “test everything and hold on the good”.
this was a real hard thing for Christians to do, considering that before of the arrival of the real fulfilment foreseen by God, many situations arose (were taken place) in the world which could be easily likened to the (litera of) prophecies..
but the simple fact that they resemble , doesn’t mean that that is the “truth”, or the fulfilment “with spirit and with truth” which can help our worship to Father
and so, the christians should “wait” until they could recognise that they have the good/real meaning of the prophecy
Here is to be told that
it is God the One who did/uttered the prophecies,
and Who is watching over them to be fulfiled — Jeremiah 1:11,12.
and Who did established the frame and the time of their fulfilment
as He aknowledged His servant Daniel about that (chapter 10 )
14. Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall
— thy people
— in the latter days;
for the vision is yet for many days:
Going to Jesus, we find that by his statement “your word is truth”,
Jesus himself has given the real importance for us regarding the Fathers’ “rule” of interpreting the prophecies ,
through the fact that he/Jesus obeyed it ! and used it !
Never had Jesus spoke any tale/report regarding the world’s powers of that time , as fulfilling some part of any prophecie ,
BUT he did used parts of Daniel prophecies when speaking/prophetising regarding the events occuring at or previous of his (second) coming
see Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:24.
both by his words and by his way of using Daniel’s prophecies,
Jesus did settled (as valid truth) God’s word in Daniel 10:14 !
this is something we must obey, as our Father has commanded
“Listen to him !”
Is this a teaching of Christ?
1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,
2 who bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave, even to all the things he saw.
3 Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near.
and was it written by the same John who wrote this:
9. “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.” 2 John
<<<< END QUOTE
My answer :
here we arrive at an important point
the same John has (by inspiration) said that (chapter 1 )
17. For the law was given through Moses;
grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
here John was referring to the teaching God has sent to us through His Son when he was on earth (son of man)
and the above statement, together with God’s command “Listen to him”
does settle the fact that the teachings/truth spoken/told/taught by Jesus when on earth is, or forms the basis/foundation for the further revelations from God’s word
Indeed, the Revelation came from Jesus Christ ,
BUT it is a prophecy (which has to be understood) ,
more than that , Revelation is a “conclusion of all prophecies” (mine expression)
and it cannot be well understood before knowing the teachings Jesus taught on earth , and also some of the “old prophecies” regarding God’s people
if not respecting this order , the result surely will be a disastruous one .
here I will give an valid example
The Bible searchers , taking in consideration Psalm 110:1 .. and Rev 12 :7-12 and other prophecies ,
have concluded that the Kingdom of God has started in Heavens in 1914 with the coronation of Jesus,
and with Satan’s trowing down from Heaven,
and that was the “second coming” , and Jesus starting to rule “in the midst of his enemies”…etc…
well , if we really do obey Father ,
and take Jesus teachings as truth, and believe them ,
then the conclusion will be other :
see it here / at second my post on this thread
- This reply was modified 42 seconds ago by seekerforgodskingdom.
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