seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 12, 2017 at 7:57 amPost count: 13
— The Kingdom of God – when in Heaven ? —
—– according to Jesus’ teaching —–
Jehovah / YHWH is a God of order.
He decided a certain place for that teaching called in Bible “the teaching of Christ”
In order for us to understand the weight of Jesus words ,
it is very important for us to find the place decided by God for the “teaching of Christ”
The “teaching of Christ ” – what is it , and why is it so important ?
2 John 1:
9. “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God;
whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.”
God’s spirit lead us to see the importance given by Jehovah Himself to Christ’s teaching !
But first , what is this teaching ?
— Jesus answered to us :
16. Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.”
Again we see , apostle John wrote leaded by spirit (John 1 )
17. “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. ”
Jesus Himself said regarding to all His Father’s word (including the written word in the O. T. ) :
17. “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. ”
The question is : if God’s word in O.T. is truth , why ap. John said “…the truth came through Jesus Christ” ?
As we can see , the knowledge/teaching God has sent through His Son has priority, or has a special importance !
Not Jesus , nor ap. John decided that , but Jehovah Himself !
Let us hear His voice :
Matthew 17 :
5.”While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said,
“This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
Now , what is to be understood through the expression “teaching of Christ” (only a part of what He preached )?
Let Him answer to us :
Mathew 28 :
20. “and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matt.28.
— we are today under the same Jesus’ commandment !
Apostle Paul agrees with this priority/importance given by Jehovah to the teaching of Christ:
Hebrews 1 :
1. “In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2. but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe……”
also Hebrews 12 :
24. to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
25. See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? ”
It has been prophesied that in the “latter days” there will be a certain action inside/within God’s people :
Daniel 8 :
10. It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them.
11. It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low.
12. Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
13.Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
As we can see ,the truth is thrown down during the 2300 evenings and mornings. God’s promise is , “then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
The action of reconsecrating takes place when Jesus is present at the Temple !
When Jesus begins his action , He finds “the truth”-the correct understanding of His teaching– down !
So He have to re-put His teaching to the place decided by Jehovah Himself !
It is written at Acts 3 :
21.”He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.”
When Jesus starts his second presence , He does like that :
Revelation 3 :
20. “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.”
Also in Luke 12 :
37. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching:
verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them sit down to meat, and shall come and serve them.
What do you think He will serve at the table to those watching when He comes ?
— Exactly the correct understanding of “the teaching of Christ” !
——–THE KINGDOM OF GOD———-
Jesus preached this Kingdom as it follows:
Matthew 4 :
17. From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”
15. “The time has come,” he said.
“The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!”
WHAT is God’s Kingdom ?
According to Jesus words
Matthew 6 :
10. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.
…we see that His Kingdom means the state where His will is done !
And surely it implies a certain order made by God .
This “order” means a certain structure of authority between God’s heavenly and earthly creatures, of course , made by God, or according to His will !
So, Jesus named this kingdom as being
— OF GOD and
— OF HEAVEN
What means that ?
Of course, it means
— this kingdom belongs to God (YHWH ), it originates/comes from HIM !
— its place of birth is in Heaven , there is its capital city of residence , from there it will be extended all over the God’s creations .
That means , the Kingdom of Heaven CAN EXIST IN HEAVEN even not being come yet on earth.
But what the “Heaven” is ?
People often would think it is all the space from where human eye cannot see further.
Well , let us see a scripture :
Psalm 33 :
13. From heaven the LORD looks down
and sees all mankind;
14. from his dwelling place he watches
all who live on earth-
Job 1 :
6. One day the angels came to present themselves
before the LORD , and Satan also came with them.
So , when the Kingdom of God and of Heaven gets start , it start in Heaven, where is God’s “dwelling place” , and “before the Lord” where sometime the angels present themselves….
Now let us see Jesus teaching about this kingdom…:
— “the Kingdom of Heaven is near”… means it was THEN near , when Jesus was on earth !
–(Matt.12:28 ) : But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
… that means God’s kingdom WAS ACTIVE in Heaven at the moment when Jesus was speaking/ when He was on earth !
YES , when Jesus WAS on earth the Kingdom WAS active in Heaven , even it was not fully installed “: the future King was on earth , not raised at God’s right side yet !
37. “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You are right in saying I am a king.
…Jesus was King then !
Furthermore Jesus taught his followers how to pray the Father
10. Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.
IF we believe that Jesus words are the truth ,
then we believe that He taught us that
as the Kingdom was already on Heaven,
and God’s will was done there,
our prayer(and desire also) to be :..”let (this God’s order and state where His will is done) come on earth”
surely Jesus did not say “Thy will be done ..on earth ..as it will be done in Heaven some time in the future..”
Now we can correctly understand what Jesus meant when He said
Matthew 16 :
28. Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in (into) His kingdom.
The Son of Man was seen “coming” into His Kingdom at Pentecosta , when the earth / his followers on earth / received the confirmation from the Holy Spirit that He has been exalted and enthroned – in full power in Heaven – !
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS ??
WHEN WHERE THEY THROWN OUT OF HEAVEN ??
–(John 12:31) “Now is the time for judgment on this world;
now the prince of this world will be driven out….
… where out ? literally stick on earth ?
— NOT ! but “driven out from “God’s dwelling place”, out from “before the Lord” where they could go before Jesus came on earth !
–( Luke 10:18 ) He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
— apostle John said regarding Satan using past tense :
…( Rev 9:1 ) “The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth.”
WHILE Jesus was on earth He was spiritually fighting against Satan , but the very moment of overcoming him was at the moment of His death !
— a short time before His martirio , Jesus said (John 16:33)
“…I have overcome the world.” — inclusive its god !
Apostle Paul agrees with that Colossians 2:15:
“And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.”
So it is absolutely sure ,
The Kingdom of God and of Heaven get started in HEAVEN at that time when Jesus accomplished his service on earth , and immediate after his resurrection He received all power !
Jesus said ( Matthew 28 )
18. Then Jesus came to them and said,
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”
What could retain Jesus from using all authority
starting with that time ?
— Nothing could retain Jesus from using this authority in Heaven !
BUT as concerns earth , YES , something retained Him !
What ? —
— It was Father’s will – as prophetically expressed in Psalm 110
1. The LORD says to my Lord: ( at His enthronement )
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
Well , but WHY this scripture is to be applied only concerning the earth , and not also for Heaven ?
— IT IS because we believe Jesus’ teaching !
— HE taught us that His enemies were already thrown out of “Heaven” at the moment of His exalting at the right side of the Glory
Well , at Pentecosta ,the Holy Spirit enlightened the first christians to understand ..(Acts 2 )as Peter said :
32. God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.
33. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
34. For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35. until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
36. “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this:
God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Well , here the word “KING” did not appear , but Jesus being “exalted to the right hand of God” and using “all authority in Heaven” , IT MEANS HE WAS KING IN HEAVEN !….as He said it to Pilat…
BUT REGARDING EARTH ??
Jesus said he received also “all power on earth”.
So , was it something who retained Christ from using His “all power” on earth ?
— YES ! It was YHWH’ will , exprimed prophetically in Psalm 110:1 and correctly quoted and understood by apostle Peter at Pentecosta !
Now , we are able to understand correctly God’s words in Psalm 110:1,2
1. The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand (and rule in Heavens)
until I make your enemies ( found now “out” of Heavens )
a footstool for your feet.”
2. The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion;
you will rule in the midst of your enemies.
God said to Jesus “sit at my right hand” that is
–to sit on throne and to use/exercise “all power recently received” IN THE HEAVEN , ruling as KING ,
–BUT to wait regarding the earth ” until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” !
How so ?
As Jesus taught us already , in Heaven were not enemy at His exalting moment , they were OUT OF HEAVEN !
OUT of the place were the Kingdom was ruling !
BUT WHERE were they ?
-ON EARTH – the visible enemies ,
— and “in heavenly realms” the invisible ones , as ap.Paul said in Ephesians 6 :
12. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities,
against the powers of this dark world and against the
spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Well, are not this “heavenly realms”, “the Heaven” where the Kingdom is ?
As I said , THE HEAVEN where God’s Kingdom is ruling , is “before the Lord” and Devil with his followers are somewhere FAR AWAY (beyond) FROM THAT PLACE !
Now we see that the following God’s words “until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”
… referes to the time and situation when YHWH will give both the permission and the commandment to His King to START REIGNING OVER THE EARTH , where the enemies are now !
That action of His starting reigning over earth is prophetically shown by the words “Christ returning” or “Christ’s (second)coming”.
These knowledges debated here are necessary for further understanding of other prophetical passages and prophecies which are to happen on earth , as the Revelation 12 , for instance .
Because Christ started ruling in Heaven immediately after his ressurection , according to the”teaching of Christ”, there is no place for such interpretations which leads to conclusions as 1874 or 1914 or other years as the time for Christ starting to rule in Heaven.
with great respect for Jehovah, and His enthroned King , Jesus Christ,
Seeker.seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 12, 2017 at 8:01 amPost count: 13
Has God An Organization On Earth Today ?
I have read the Bible .
I have never found the word “organization”, nor the fact that God would ever had or has an “organization” on earth .
The humans want to understand through the word “organization” God’s theocratic arrangement. BUT what really would fit with this word (organization), it is found only in Heavens !
God’s Organization (theocratic arrangement) is in Heaven and it is Heavenly.
And when Jesus Christ came on earth , he did not call it “God’s organization” but God’s KINGDOM !
And he taught us that Father’s will is that this Kingdom to come on earth.
And he taught us to pray for that.
And because Father commanded to Jesus followers to “obey the Son” (Matt.17:5), we are praying until today “Let Your Kingdom come…”
That is the most powerful proof that “God’s Organization” is not on earth today, because we all admit that His Kingdom is not here yet !
Well, but then , what does God has on earth ?
He says He has a people !
But has He always had “a people” on earth ?
NO ! because the history of His chosen people begun with God’s “pulling his people out of Egypt”.
So, before of that event God had individuals and “family” .
When the Israelites entered in Egypt they were a “family” (of seventy souls). And there they become a “people”.
And what God always had on earth are “human souls” because He is the OWNER of them … Ezekiel 18:4
“Behold, all souls are Mine;
the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine
The soul who sins will die.”
What is God doing “always” is as it follows :
“The LORD looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.”
So, we can say that “always” God has been having on earth individuals who “seek after Him”, to know (understand) Him – but not “organization”!
Now , Jesus has formed the “Christian community” within which God’s Kingdom has to come .
And how does He did it ?
To the “two greatest commandments” (to love God…and the neighbor) Jesus has added another one through which He fixed the “center” of the “Christian community”.
As a planet is formed by firstly fixing its “center/point of gravity” so did Jesus:
He gave “a new commandment” to His followers:
34.“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Through these words Jesus has fixed the “center of gravity” for the Christian community !
There was never need for a human “organization” to keep His faithful ones united !
That commandment works (like a gravitational force) in those who really have faith in Jesus and it produces unity (not uniformity).
Within this (worldwide) “community” (or ekklesia) the Heavenly Kingdom of God will “come on earth” in short time / at God’s established time.
Regarding the much used phrase:“God doesn’t deal with individuals, only with his organization” there is an inspired scripture proving how God deals with men:
“When He keeps quiet, who then can condemn?
And when He hides His face, who then can behold Him,
>>> That is, in regard to both nation and man. ”
So, Jehovah deals with “both nation and man”/ individuals and group of individuals/people/nation (his people)…
… while He may be “at peace” with a certain His servant , at the same time He may be “angered” over His nation , as a “whole”
… while He may be “at peace” with His “people” , He may manifest His anger over a certain “individual” who proves to be “law transgressor”
Seeker.seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 18, 2017 at 4:28 pmPost count: 13
The basis for understanding “with spirit” of the Bible prophecies
Jehovah/YHWH is a God of order !
He stored a lot of knowledge (containing many “jota” ) in His word (the Old Testament)
John 17:17 ; Matt.5:17,18 .
Jehovah fulfills His word/jota of prophecies in a certain order , according to His will .
Firstly He commands to all of us to OBEY His Son
Matthew 17:5 “While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said,
“This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.
Listen to him!”
— Simply, because through him He has sent to us (humankind) “the truth”
John 1:17 “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. ”
Everything Jesus has taught us is called “the teaching of Christ”
Matthew 28:20 “and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
2 John 1:9 “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God;
whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.”
The “teaching of Christ ” – why is it so important ?
John 7:16 Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.”
It is clear, “the teaching of Christ” is in fact “Father’s teaching”, the knowledge Father has sent to us through His Son Jesus Christ when he came on earth .
As we can see , the knowledge/teaching God has sent through His Son has priority, or has a special importance (importance settled by Father in Matthew 17:5) !
Not Jesus , nor ap. John decided that , but Jehovah Himself !
Now, the prophecies has been written in a “literally” way , and during the time before Jesus coming on earth they were understood (or taken) so as they were written (that is, “literally” )
While Jesus was on earth He has taught something new : that His Father wants worshipers “with spirit and with truth” John 4:23,24
… that implies that the prophecies are being given a certain understanding or “value” (interpretation) according to Father’s will
The WILL of Father was expressly sent to Daniel , through a special messenger, in a vision, regarding a main prophecy which shows a great “disaster” or “war” or “tribulation” … Daniel 10:1
The Messenger said:
“Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall
— thy people
— in the latter days:
for yet the vision is for many days.”
Jesus knew Father’s word and will, and worked accordingly to it.
Now, Jesus (according to my knowledge) did not quoted these words, but he acted according to them …
He said he came to “fulfil [the law] and the prophets” … Matthew 5:17,18
… and also He was sent only to the House of Israel Matthew 15:24 ; John 1:11
… so, He had to fulfil the prophecies with, or within, or among, or concerning “the House of Israel”
Everything He quoted from “prophets” He put it into correlation with the nation He was sent to !
… no connection was made by Jesus between the inspired prophecies and political powers that had been, or there were or had to come after the time when Jesus was on earth !
So the fulfilment of the prophecies should be looked for within (events regarding)
— God’s people
— during the “latter days” according to the clear expressed will of Jehovah
So, to make a short resume , “the teaching of Christ” is the basis for correct understanding prophecies “with spirit”
… yet , we need something more …
Jesus said He did not taught “everything” his disciples for a certain reason
see John 16:12,13,14,15
… later, Jesus, in Revelation gave us also a KEY to help us in our research for the truth of prophecies ..
” And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,…”
” And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, LORD God Almighty( Jehovah Exo 6:3; Rev 19:6 ) ; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.” Quote from DNKJB
We see that (at the time of Jesus “second” coming) those approved by God are singing a “new Song”, that is the Song of Moses !
The Song of Moses is the Song Jehovah has given to Moses … Deuteronomy 31:19-21;32:1-43
This Song is also named “the song of the Lamb” — how so ?
Simply , it is Jesus who “come to” fulfill this Song — during the “latter days” Jesus is implied in the fulfilling of this Song .. or He is watching that any “jota” of this Song to be accomplished Jeremiah 1:12
So … no interpretation of any prophecy can change the “teaching of Christ”, but has to be within the confines settled by ‘the teaching of Christ” …
and… the “key” for correct understanding of the prophecies regarding God’s people during the “latter days”
is being given by Jesus (in Revelation), and it is called “the Song of Moses” !
All “followers of Jesus” should (do as Jesus did) search for the “spiritual” fulfilment of the prophecies, that is, within (or among) Jehovah’s people , during the “latter days”seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 23, 2017 at 3:25 pmPost count: 13
I see the necessity to go ahead in speaking the things I understand….
when the man of God approaches on Bible’s prophecies he must understand some of the things about God who “uttered” them
1) Proverbs 25 :
2. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing;
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter. ASV
2. It is the glory of God to conceal a matter;
to search out a matter is the glory of kings. NIV
clearly we see the way God have done His prophecies , by “concealing” their meaning/understanding .
Job 34 :
29. When he giveth quietness, who then can condemn?
And when he hideth his face, who then can behold him?
Alike whether it be done unto a nation, or unto a man: ASV
we see that God has two kind of “relationship” with men :
– individually , or He “works” with a (single, each) man/person
– colectivelly as a “people” or a “nation”/He works with/within the entire nation as “one”
from the above scripture we may understand that God may be “wrathfull” on/over a nation/people , but in the meantime be in “peacefull relationship” with an individual of that people/nation .
example : God became wrathfull over Jews as the entire nation and delivered them to Babylonians ,
while He had a peacefull relationship with Daniel and his 3 friends , Jeremiah, (etc.) taking care of them (but the fact that God took care of them doesn’t mean they weren’t taken captive …as members of that nation / or to be at peace with his nation while He punish each wicked single one )
14 For God does speak
— now one way, now another —
though man may not perceive it. ASV
we see that God may and surely He did speak “now a way” then in “another way” , but regarding the same things/events/situations/etc.
firstly, God is speaking this way because of His glory of “concealing” the things
secondly, the truth/ the way God is seeing the realities from His high point of view is so deep and so complex , that is necessary to be spoken about it in many/several ways as to reveal more or all aspects of it
let us see an example
to Gog of Magog Jehovah has said…Ezekiel 38
17. ” ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
Are you not the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel?
At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them.
well, Jehovah has spoken about him (Gog) through His (several) prophets , but where ?
I will tell you here only one (other) prophet : Isaiah 14:1-19.
please give attention to the verse 16 :
16 They that see thee shall gaze at thee, they shall consider thee, saying,
Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;…?
it comes again to be repeated the importance God , the Father, is giving to the “teaching of Christ”
see the first post on this topic …
God is setting His own order as the way of interpreting His own prophecies
— while all God’s word is truth , and it (OT) forms the “ground” for the teachings of Jesus ,
— the Father decided and ordered that we must obey His Son / Matt.17:5 … by these words He emphasises Jesus teachings as “the foundation” for further understandings from prophecies
indeed , through Jesus, the Father has teached us something new :
— He is spirit , and He wants “worshipers with spirit and with truth”
that implies a “way” of taking/considering the prophecies , “with spirit” , or “according to Father’s will”
— Jesus is come “to fulfil … the prophecies” / that means the prophecies does have their (spiritual) fulfilment “in Christ”
at that point I want to say that during the time , many christians have seen many similarities between different prophetic parts … and events of the world, and they concluded that that was the “interpretation” or the “fulfilment” of that prophecy ..
this way of reasoning have produced many errors in which both Bible Students , as also Jehovah’s witnesses are continuing untill today !
1 Samuel 16
7. (But Jehovah said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have rejected him )
for Jehovah seeth not as man seeth;
for man looketh on the outward appearance,
but Jehovah looketh on the heart.
we must attentively consider the above statement when searching the prophecies
there may be men/peoples living within His people , but God is addressing to them as “his enemies” , and they are such , because God is seeing their hearth / pay attention to that .
We find written by Paul … (1 Tess. 5 )
20. do not treat prophecies with contempt.
21. Test everything. Hold on to the good.
22. Avoid every kind of evil.
20. Do not spurn the gifts and utterances of the prophets [do not depreciate prophetic revelations nor despise inspired instruction or exhortation or warning].
21. But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.
22. Abstain from evil [shrink from it and keep aloof from it] in whatever form or whatever kind it may be.
I quoted the second trans. because it seems to exprime better some thoughts
— while God has decided that the prophecies will happen during “the latter days” , the inspired instruction to the christians was to “do not treat prophecies with contempt”, but to “test everything and hold on the good”.
this was a real hard thing for Christians to do, considering that before of the arrival of the real fulfilment foreseen by God, many situations arose (were taken place) in the world which could be easily likened to the (litera of) prophecies..
but the simple fact that they resemble , doesn’t mean that that is the “truth”, or the fulfilment “with spirit and with truth” which can help our worship to Father
and so, the christians should “wait” until they could recognise that they have the good/real meaning of the prophecy
Here is to be told that
it is God the One who did/uttered the prophecies,
and Who is watching over them to be fulfiled — Jeremiah 1:11,12.
and Who did established the frame and the time of their fulfilment
as He aknowledged His servant Daniel about that (chapter 10 )
14. Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall
— thy people
— in the latter days;
for the vision is yet for many days:
Going to Jesus, we find that by his statement “your word is truth”,
Jesus himself has given the real importance for us regarding the Fathers’ “rule” of interpreting the prophecies ,
through the fact that he/Jesus obeyed it ! and used it !
Never had Jesus spoke any tale/report regarding the world’s powers of that time , as fulfilling some part of any prophecie ,
BUT he did used parts of Daniel prophecies when speaking/prophetising regarding the events occuring at or previous of his (second) coming
see Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:24.
both by his words and by his way of using Daniel’s prophecies,
Jesus did settled (as valid truth) God’s word in Daniel 10:14 !
this is something we must obey, as our Father has commanded
“Listen to him !”
Is this a teaching of Christ?
1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,
2 who bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave, even to all the things he saw.
3 Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near.
and was it written by the same John who wrote this:
9. “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.” 2 John
<<<< END QUOTE
My answer :
here we arrive at an important point
the same John has (by inspiration) said that (chapter 1 )
17. For the law was given through Moses;
grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
here John was referring to the teaching God has sent to us through His Son when he was on earth (son of man)
and the above statement, together with God’s command “Listen to him”
does settle the fact that the teachings/truth spoken/told/taught by Jesus when on earth is, or forms the basis/foundation for the further revelations from God’s word
Indeed, the Revelation came from Jesus Christ ,
BUT it is a prophecy (which has to be understood) ,
more than that , Revelation is a “conclusion of all prophecies” (mine expression)
and it cannot be well understood before knowing the teachings Jesus taught on earth , and also some of the “old prophecies” regarding God’s people
if not respecting this order , the result surely will be a disastruous one .
here I will give an valid example
The Bible searchers , taking in consideration Psalm 110:1 .. and Rev 12 :7-12 and other prophecies ,
have concluded that the Kingdom of God has started in Heavens in 1914 with the coronation of Jesus,
and with Satan’s trowing down from Heaven,
and that was the “second coming” , and Jesus starting to rule “in the midst of his enemies”…etc…
well , if we really do obey Father ,
and take Jesus teachings as truth, and believe them ,
then the conclusion will be other :
see it here / at second my post on this thread
seekerforgodskingdomParticipantNovember 26, 2017 at 12:18 pmPost count: 13
- This reply was modified 3 months ago by seekerforgodskingdom.
********* They Are Saying “Peace and Security!” **********
Where is to happen/take place this event ? in the world , or within God’s people ?
Jesus brought something new (from His and ours Father ) : the knowledge of the Father’s purpose and will :
to HAVE worshipers “with spirit and with truth”
a worshiper “with spirit” is that one who observe strictly the will of the Father in each action , because the Father is the Spirit
Father has commanded us to obey His Son :”This is my beloved Son, Listen to Him !”
And the Son said : “Your word is TRUTH ”
Jesus knew Father’s clearly expressed “will” regarding the time and the frame of “end-time prophecies” ,
as it were declared to Daniel ( cap 10 )
14. “Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen
— to your people
— in the latter days,
for the vision pertains to the days yet future.”
So, it is very clear , Jesus conformed Himself to Father’s will , and everything he preached from old prophecies , He put it in relations with “God’s people” !
His apostles followed Him in this way , because this means to “abide” or to “remain” in the Teaching of Christ ! …
….the only way to HAVE BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON !
9. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God;
the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
WHEN apostle Paul wrote the inspired words in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5 , he surely knew Father’s will toward Jesus’ followers , and acted accordingly !
SO , the cry “Peace and security” MUST HAVE ITS FULFILMENT within God’s people , toward the end of the “latter days”
WHO are THEY who cry “peace and security” ?
They are some who ” had been of us … but they were not really of us” !
1 John 2
19. They went out from us, but they were not really of us;
for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us;
but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
Who are “of us” the apostle John is speaking about here ?
..”of us” are the anointed brothers of Christ , the co-followers with apostle John , who all where “abiding” in the Teaching of Christ ! (2 John9 )
… and those who “were not really of us” are those called “weeds” , workers of LAWLESSNESS , who “will secretly introduce destructive heresies” …
2 Peter 2
1. But false prophets also arose among the people (of God ), just as there will also be false teachers among you,
who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them,
bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
SO , these ones who ” had been of us … but they were not really of us” CONSTITUTES themselves in the group called “FALSE PROPHET”
LET us find what was prophesied regarding these “false prophets”
16. Thus says the LORD of hosts,
“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you
They are leading you into futility;
They speak a vision of their own imagination,
Not from the mouth of the LORD.
17. “They keep saying to those who despise Me,
‘The LORD has said, “you will have peace “‘; (the cry for : PEACE )
And as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart,
They say, ‘Calamity will not come upon you.’ ( the cry for SECURITY )
DO we understand now what the cry “peace and security” IS ?
This CRY come from these prophets whom JEHOVAH SENT NOT !
They (the Gov.Body ) are desperately TRYING TO ASSURE those believing THE LIE (despising Jehovah / walking in the stubbornness of his own heart ) THAT THEY WILL HAVE PEACE AND SECURITY from Jehovah’s part if they will continue to follow themselves (the FALSE PROPHETS) and to remain in the so-called “God’s earthly organization”!
BUT SUDDEN DESTRUCTION IS TO BE INSTANTLY UPON THEM (both the false teachers and their -conscious- followers) !
Nowaday there is a spiritual fight between the “spiritual leadership” of “organization” and the real “brothers of Christ”, I mean the “least ones” (Matt 25:40 / Revelation 17:14 )
in this battle the “Fds” uses interpretations of God’s word in order to consolidate their own (and their organization) positions , interpretations that comes not from God’s Holy Spirit .
These “private interpretations” invented and used in order to deceive are named in Bible “sorceries” – 1 Timothy 4:1 / Isaiah 57:3 / Isaiah 47:9 / Rev 21:27 / Rev 22:15seekerforgodskingdomParticipantDecember 10, 2017 at 2:35 pmPost count: 13
“The Appointed Times of the Nations”
The worshiper “with spirit” understands that the “teaching of Christ” is the basis of understanding (interpretation) of the prophecies … and the Song of Moses settle the “spinal column” of the events regarding God’s people during the ‘latter days”
the “spiritual” Israel means those “called to be holly” – a holy nation/people for Jehovah -Romans 9:6 ; Titus 2:14 ; 1Peter 2:9
They have received the command to watch for … Hebrew 12:16
The Song of Moses (or of Jehovah) shows us that “His sons and daughters” have turned their hearts from Jehovah and disobeyed in many ways and as the result Jehovah has decided to punish them! EXACTLY , to punish His own people by allowing -for a certain fixed period of time- the “strangers” or “other nations” to “trample” His own people , people of whom individuals build up exactly God’s Temple (1 Cor.3:16) – again the spiritual meaning –
… so, “the appointed time of the nations” means the time when Jehovah punishes His own people , a period of great distress for His children – Daniel 11:36 / exactly during this “period of Jehovah’s anger / indignation” …. this period is the time when the MoL is ruling in God’s Temple … THEN, the (day of) judgement comes, and Jesus with the sword coming out of his mouth (2Tess. 2:8) is destroying the lawlessness …that means, the anger of Jehovah ends over His people and go against the oppressors (enemies) of His people ..Deut. 32:36-43 / Daniel 7:25-27 / Ezekiel 21:25-27 / Isaiah 42:23-25 .
Please, read the Song of Moses if you want to be counted among those “singing it” – Rev 15:2-4.
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