Tokens of things to come

//Tokens of things to come

Commentary on the Daily text of Jehovah’s Witnesses

Sunday, July 30

The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children.Rom. 8:16.

God’s original purpose was for mankind to live forever here on earth. (Gen. 1:28; Ps. 37:29) The selection of some to go to heaven to rule as kings and priests is not the norm. It is an exceptional arrangement. This calling causes a profound change in the thinking, outlook, and hope of a person when he is anointed. (Eph. 1:18) But how does a person know that he has the heavenly calling, that he has, in fact, received this special token? The answer is clearly seen in Paul’s words to the anointed brothers in Rome, who were “called to be holy ones.” He told them: “You did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: ‘Abba, Father!’” (Rom. 1:7; 8:15) Simply put, by means of his holy spirit, God makes it clear to that person that he is invited to become a future heir in the Kingdom arrangement.

A token is variously described as something serving to represent or indicate some fact, event, feeling, or a characteristic indication or mark of something; evidence or proof. Hence, the anointing spirit represents a measure of the spirit to come —proof that the spirit to come is real. That is why Paul wrote the following: “He has also put his seal on us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts.” —2 Cor 1:22

“Now the one who prepared us for this very thing is God, who gave us the spirit as a token of what is to come.” —2 Cor 5:5

“After you believed, you were sealed by means of him with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing God’s own possession by a ransom, to his glorious praise.” —Ephesians 1:13b-14

As we know, God’s purpose is to establish a kingdom composed of Christ and 144,000 Christians, chosen from among mankind, from both Jews and non-Jews, both men and women. The original calling began after Jesus was resurrected and retuned to heaven. The first selectees were the 120 disciples who were gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem on the day of the festival of Pentecost. A few years later Samaritans and gentiles began to receive the same invitation. But by the time the apostles began dying off the calling was curtailed.

Of course, the untaught imagine that Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that only 144,000 persons will be saved. You hear people repeat this lie over and over again. They simply do not know the truth. We know, though, that Jehovah God intends to resurrect the vast majority of mankind who have ever lived and died —just not to heaven.  The dead will live again on earth. That is mankind’s eternal home. No one should suppose that being brought back to life in paradise is any sort of a curse or that God has slighted them because they were not exalted to heaven. Like the Daily Text says, the selection of some for heavenly life “is not the norm.” “It is an exceptional arrangement.”

So, when the anointing phenomena tailed off in the second century no one was wronged by God. The millions of Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants, along with Coptics and what-have-you, who have lived in centuries past will receive the resurrection of judgment; which is to say, an earthly resurrection. 

But God’s purpose cannot be complete until the full number of 144,000 are selected. And the Scriptures reveal that prior to Christ’s return the selection process will begin again. There is ample evidence to conclude that the sudden appearance of the International Bible Students in the latter part of the 19th century was a result of the outpouring of the anointing spirit.

It is no wonder that America was fertile ground for the Bible Students. After all, the nation was founded by Bible-believing pilgrims who fled the tyranny of the Church of England, as well as mainland Europeans who longed for freedom from the oppression of kings and lords and clergymen. Various Bible societies had promoted the mass distribution of Bibles in the 1800’s, which prior to the invention of the printing press were rare and illegal to possess. Not only that, but the age of inventions, which really began with the electric light, phonograph and radio, have accelerated the dissemination of the truth; and with it the gathering of not only the final called ones, but millions who are destined to be members of the great crowd who are destined to survive the end of the world.

But while God has caused the light to shine, at least as far as the basic truth, which has long been obscured and twisted by the churches, he has also concealed certain matters regarding the future. For example, speaking from the past to a point in the not-too-distant future, God says: “From now on I am announcing new things to you, guarded secrets that you have not known. Only now are they being created, and not long ago, things that you never heard before today, so that you cannot say, ‘Look! I already know them.’ No, you have not heard, you have not known, and in the past your ears were not opened. For I know that you are very treacherous, and you have been called a transgressor from birth.” —Isaiah 48:6-8

Foremost, of the guarded secrets God has hidden the fact that Christ is due to make a sudden visitation of those who have been gathered. That surprise inspection will will accomplish the harvest. The weed-like, false anointed will be uprooted. Christ will then appear to the approved. The transfiguration was, itself, a token of the ultimate unveiling —the visible presence of Christ alongside the chosen. That is when they receive the full measure of the spirit assured in advance by the token given them upon their anointing.

It has been my privilege to comprehend these things in advance.

Already the judgement is closing in. The banning of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia is a token of sorts. Not only has the preaching been banned, but it is unlawful for Jehovah’s Witnesses to even convene in any number. Also, all the property belonging to the Watchtower has been seized and is due to be liquidated. To be sure, it is a token of what is to come for Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide.

The catastrophe will be acutely painful for the Watchtower in the United States. That is because the worldwide headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses is located in New York, along with dozens of assembly halls and thousands of kingdom halls throughout America. Already the tentacles of tyranny are gripping the once heralded “land of the free and home of the brave.” The now-impending downfall of America will initiate the beginning of the judgment.

The world will ultimately be brought into judgment with God for their treatment of the remaining sons of God after they receive their inheritance. Hence, the sheep and the goats will be separated on the basis of their treatment of the brothers of Christ then.

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2017-07-30T18:33:06+00:00 July 30th, 2017|Commentary|296 Comments
  • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

    Super super nice article

  • Simpletruth

    Awesome! Thank you for all that you do!!!

  • Michelle

    Why is the banning of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia a token of sorts? From what I have read (I’m no expert), almost since their inception, JW’s have been banned in the past in various places around the world. What makes this particular situation different?

    • Most places where JW’s are banned are Islamic nations and so-called non-Christian nations where JW’s have never had a presence, like North Korea and China. Russia, on the other hand, having broken free from communism aspires to be a democratic nation. Since acquiring legal recognition after the fall of the USSR JW’s have been allowed most of the same freedoms as in other “free” nations. As a result, the WT built a branch facility there and there are almost 400 kingdom halls.

      The WT boasts the God’s people were freed from Babylon the Great in 1919 and that try as they might Babylon cannot hinder the work of JW’s any more. Well, guess what…Babylon, in the form of the Russian Orthodox Church using the government to do their dirty work as they are wont to do, just shut down the work of Jehovah’s Witnesses throughout the vast Russian Federation. It is a stunning turn of events for the WT, and as such serves as a portent of the things to come.

      • Michelle

        Thanks for the clarification Robert.

      • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

        Most of the older ones know, Jehovah’s Witnesses have been underground for many years in Russia before this short-lived appearance, even from the beginning the Initiative for the witnesses to speak openly, sadly there were people in high places working in the background working against the Jehovah’s Witnesses to suppress their freedoms, this is nothing new it’s been going on for many years. However I do think that it’s a Flashpoint or rather a reality check that the suppression of Jehovah’s Witnesses could come round the world in an instant if things were set in motion. I believe what Jesus said in Matthew that when we see these things happening Kingdom against Kingdom Nation against Nation It would seem he’s very near the door!

      • Burt Reynolds

        It smacks of that scripture about those seeking to sit at the high table and with shame, being sent down to the lowest. The watchtower raises itself up and now it is going to take down with it, millions to the lowest table. Quite the test of faith.

    • Craig Knight

      Michelle Hi! – I think Russia denied the JW’s because they have heard of the abuse within WT regarding child molestation and the cruel way Witnesses are treated and easily disfellowshipped for asking about questions about 1914 chronology and other things that don’t make any sense.. Russia is correct the shunning and disfellowshipping are veyt cruel. I have no problem with disfellowshipping for immorality etc. But I know a lot of ex JW’s who were kicked out of their hope of eternal life in God’s earthly kingdom over some foolish issue like celebrating birthdays in private or smoking and other things like that which really should be a conscience matter.

      • I seriously doubt that Russia cares anything about the Watchtower’s policies. Whatever may have been presented as evidence that JW’s are extremists is nonsense. Everyone knows it. Russia banned Jehovah’s Witnesses because Jehovah sold them off into captivity. At least, according to the implications of the WT’s interpretations of prophecy.

        • Craig Knight

          That’s a great point Robert. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

        • Ken Rosenberg

          Can you explain how the banning of JWs in Russia means they were sold off into captivity?

          • The WT claims that Jehovah set them free from captivity to Babylon the Great in 1919. Because of that the WT asserts that Babylon can no longer impose any restraints upon them. For example, the October 2017, in the article Chariots and a Crown, the WT states in paragraph 10:

            “Since 1919, when Jehovah’s people were released from symbolic captivity to Babylon the Great, their enemies have tried very hard to keep true worship from growing and expanding. But they have not been able to do so. Because angels are protecting Jehovah’s organization, we do not have to be afraid that Jehovah’s people will ever become captive to false religion again.”

            https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-simplified-october-2017/zechariahs-vision-chariots-crown/

            By any reasonable account, the complete liquidation of all the WT’s holdings in Russia and the banning of all Christian activity is a serious setback to the growth of “true worship.” JW’s now face incarceration for merely handing out a tract or pamphlet or meeting with fellow believers, even in private homes. Sure, some JW’s may carry on underground, but no sensible person ought to boast that Babylon cannot prevent the expansion of “true worship.” Obviously it can. And the fact that it has can only come about by God’s permission. And if Jehovah permits, as he obviously has, means that the angels are not protecting Jehovah’s organization.

            • Ken Rosenberg

              I get it.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yes, do please go on….and on. I want to know the full outworking, your insight into the demise of the watchtower and the rise of the kingdom….any shred of evidence builds faith, any morsel of insight build assurance and any crumb of love, becomes a feast.

      • Lev

        The Supreme Court has shown that it was for the real estate of the OSB as a sugar bone that two dogs fought that belong to the same Khoyain of this world.From January to April 2017, foreigners were able to transfer 74 real estate objects with a cadastral value of more than 400 million rubles. And this is not counting the “Management Center” in St. Petersburg, which long before it became the property of the American headquarters. To date, 65% of all real estate has been reissued to foreign OSB structures, about 12% to individuals and relatives of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Thus, less than a quarter of all OFFICIALLY designed real estate belongs to the Russian OSB structures. It should be remembered that more than half of all real estate is still in the shadows. If the matter concerns the nationalization of the lands and buildings of the Watchtower in Russia, most of the assets will still remain in the hands of the American leadership of the organization.

        • Craig Knight

          Hi Lev!
          Wow! You’ve really done some good research on this. Thanks for sharing this info with me. I heard that the WT had put the kingdom halls in the Brothers names not the name of the WT, kind of a sneaky way to insure they didn’t lose their investments. Seems like WT is on the ball when it comes to saving money and investing. I definitely heard that the Russians think of the WT as a cruel Religion just like that one judge in the Australian case. Thanks again for shedding light on the inner workings of Russia in this regard. I’m definitely not the sharpest pencil in the box but I try! Ha!

          • Lev

            July 11, 2017

            To all councils of the elderly in Russia
            Topic: Living in Kingdom Halls

            Dear brothers!

            In a letter dated June 9, 2017, we gave the leadership to stop holding meetings in
            Kings Halls and rooms that were used as Kingdom Halls.
            We want to whole-heartedly praise you for the fact that you immediately followed this leadership.

            In this letter, we also want to inform you that if someone resided in the Kingdom Hall (temporarily or permanently),
            Such brothers and sisters need to find another home as quickly as possible and leave the Kingdom Hall or from the premises,
            Known as the Kingdom Hall. This also applies to other premises, for example, as apartments that belonged to
            Or still belong to the organization (the MPO or the Management Center). This has to do with living
            Special pioneers and district overseers, even if they use this shelter from time to time.
            In addition, you should not store personal things in such premises.
            This should be done as soon as possible, without waiting for July 17, 2017.

            An exception is the situation where the Kingdom Hall is part of the home of a brother or sister,
            In which he actually lives as a host. Also we want to inform, that because of
            The legal situation in the country in the Kingdom Hall is now impossible to conduct any one-off events,
            Such as wedding or funeral speeches, friendly meetings, etc. We recommend,
            That the Kingdom Hall should be empty and closed all the time. It can sometimes come in volunteers,
            Who are not affiliated with the LRO or the Management Center to monitor the condition of the Kingdom Hall
            And perform the necessary work in it. But such visits are now better to be reduced to a minimum,
            Because the enemies can lead the Kingdom Hall watching. (Look: OSB receives money twice: once, when the congregations paid loans for the construction of the Kingdom Halls, 2 times when they will sell these Halls to anyone !!!)

            Also we want to remind you that if any of the strangers will show interest
            To the acquisition of our real estate (for example, the Kingdom Hall or the Congress Hall),
            Please let us know about it, and we will consider this possibility.

            If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact us for help. Very much appreciate your
            Selfless labor. We assure you of our hot Christian love and pray for you.

            Yours faithfully,
            Your brothers

            • Craig Knight

              So the WT tells the Brothers to get out find a new home and by the way help us find somebody to sell our properties so we don’t lose out financially! Gee what a surprise!! There goes that love and compassion for the flock again. What a joke!

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              They should be saying, “can anyone provide a place to stay?” That would be treating the brothers
              Right. Perhaps they are, already…give the profit to help with shelter since that money came from there…

    • like the other various places, Russia is another example of what is coming to greater Egypt, the U.S..

  • Cathii D’Anthonii

    I think that it can be a stumbling for ones to misinterpret feelings after finally getting to have this insight of the truth and thinking they are anointed because of those feelings. I am truly grateful for Br. king’s patience and efforts. Something to NOT take lightly.

    • Burt Reynolds

      That’s very true. People can and do confuse emotion with hope and make it in to fact. The charismatic religions work themselves up into a frenzy of belief, and others sing themselves into salvation, yet song and emotion never taught anyone anything except how to release endorphins into the blood stream and feel good for a moment. I suppose gratitude for the truth brings a shout of praise to the heart, but I would imagine that the invitation to rule as kings, rests upon the soul like the arms of a mother around her child, assuredness, certainty, weighty, acceptance, resting in a calm meadow with the fragrance of wild flowers in the breeze. An assured expectation. I wish sometimes that I could feel it, but I don’t. But what I do have is as good, but of nature, not spiritual above what is set for earthling man. That is enough.

      • Cathii D’Anthonii

        Yes, Burt, me too…one thing we can really look forward to is when Jehovahs spirit is poured out the full as in Joel “sons and daughters, men servants and maidservants”

      • Craig Knight

        That was beautifully said Burt!

      • Nigel

        “Speak to one another with psalms, praises to God, and spiritual songs, singing and accompanying yourselves with music in your hearts to Jehovah” Eph 5:19

        “Let the word of the Christ reside in you richly in all wisdom. Keep on teaching and encouraging one another with psalms, praises to God, spiritual songs sung with gratitude, singing in your hearts to Jehovah.” Col 3:16

        “as he says: ‘I will declare your name to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will praise you with song.'” Heb 2:12

        “At the moment when the trumpeters and the singers were praising and thanking Jehovah in unison, and as the sound ascended from the trumpets, the cymbals, and the other musical instruments as they were praising Jehovah, “for he is good; his loyal love endures forever,” then the house, the house of Jehovah, was filled with a cloud. The priests were not able to stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of Jehovah filled the house of the true God.” 2 Chron 5:13,14

        “My heart is steadfast, O God,
        My heart is steadfast.
        I will sing and make music.” Ps 57:7

        “May you increase my greatness
        And surround and comfort me.
        Then I will praise you on a stringed instrument
        Because of your faithfulness, O my God.
        I will sing your praises with the harp,
        O Holy One of Israel.
        My lips will shout joyfully as I sing praises to you,
        For you have saved my life.” Ps 71:21-23

        “Come, let us shout joyfully to Jehovah!
        Let us shout in triumph to our Rock of salvation.
        Let us come into his presence with thanksgiving;
        Let us sing and shout in triumph to him.” Ps 95:1,2

        “Shout in triumph to Jehovah, all the earth.
        Be cheerful and shout joyfully and sing praises.
        Sing praises to Jehovah with the harp,
        With the harp and the melodious song.
        With the trumpets and the sound of the horn,
        Shout in triumph before the King, Jehovah.” Ps 98:4-6

        “I will sing about loyal love and justice.
        To you, O Jehovah, I will sing praises.” Ps 101:1

        “Sing to him, sing praises to him,
        Ponder over all his wonderful works.” Ps 105:2

        “Praise Jah, for Jehovah is good.
        Sing praises to his name, for it is pleasant.” Ps 135:3

        • Beverly kenyon

          Now THAT’S beautifully said. Thank you Nigel for those beautiful psalms and much Christian love to you.

          • Nigel

            Praise Jah! Love to you, also, Sister Beverly. 🙂

        • Burt Reynolds

          Thanks for those scriptures Nigel. Very warming.

          • Nigel

            You’re most welcome Brother Burt. All the best.

    • Craig Knight

      Cathii
      It seems like a lot of ex JW’s toss out the baby with the bath water and start believing foolish things of Christendom. We became JW’s because we heard the ring of truth so why toss it all out over a group of men who put their pants on the same way I do? I am grateful of Robert’s clarity as well.

  • Ms M

    Thank you brother king

  • Joseph Stephan
    • Daisy

      For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For “He has put all things under His feet”. But when He says “all things are put under Him” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. 1cor 15
      i found just that small part link very up building this morning Joseph, so thanks for posting. 🙂

      • Joseph Stephan

        I love the end, so warm and welcoming!!

        • Daisy

          And when they saw Him they worshipped Him (because he wasn’t wearing a jw.org badge!) 🙂

          • Joseph Stephan

            Hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha!

            https://youtu.be/75zp5dVS_K0

          • Craig Knight

            Ha ha! That was funny Daisy! I think when He raised his fist up that was the right on gesture.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Now come on Joseph ! Jesus with an American accent! Everyone knows that Jesus spoke English with an Oxford accent and as for punching the air…..it was a wonder that he wasn’t chewing gum and getting ready to saddle up and ride off into the sunset with a hearty hi-Ho Silver and Tonto!

          • Max

            LOL!!

          • Joseph Stephan

            “O good heavens that Would-be ghastly “

    • Burt Reynolds

      Hello Joseph, who is this at number 19 and 5? You sure get around! https://www.facebook.com/TheDeclarationIJR/videos/10155837174667971/

      • Joseph Stephan

        You’ve blown my cover!!

        • Burt Reynolds

          I think your cover was blown when you said you were one of eleven children. That can only mean that you are an undercover member of the Walton family…..otherwise known as Jim-Bob-Joseph. In fact, Daisy could be Grandma and Thinking is probably Mary-Ellen and Robert is actually Ike Godsey and runs the grocery store. I think I’ve been suckered into the cast of the Waltons for sure. I had my suspicions when you mentioned moonshine the other day….two of your sisters still brewing grandpa’s ‘recipe’.

          • Joseph Stephan

            Ohhh life was so simple then……..!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Joseph, I did a little research about chemtrails and found a few links to other interesting phenomenon, linking it to cold fusion energy. ( see Tesla ) as well as the demise of the world trade centre and weather control….enough to inhibit a hurricane. It gives a whole new perspective on the use of chemtrails and it could well be that, given the nuclear issues of Tritium, that the ‘weather control’ stories are more of an appeasement explanation than the main reason, although it would have a smaller part to play, but that the real issue is in laying the ground for a cold energy weapon. The evidence of its existence is most ably described in the destruction of the WTC ( I’m not saying it’s proof of course) and of course, given to accusations of conspiracy theory. However, the scientific arguement is quite solid and worth looking in to in the area of particle separation, rather than fusion. In other words, free energy in a non-ionising process. It also begs the question on an all out nuclear war, because if the USA has this weapon, and it seems quite feasible that it does, it could cause nuclear size damage without radiation poisoning….it you discount the small level of tritium. That’s not to suggest of course that those who do not have this weapon would not resort to nuclear. However, a zinc plated sky may help to facilitate this sort of weapon. I expect you know all this anyway, but if you want, I can give you the threads if you want to contact me on fb at Groke Goddard.

            • Southern ShaSha

              Hello Burt. Some very interesting facts on everything being something it is not. In researching Tessa and how that was soon turned on it’s head. I believe he was on to something but in a good way. He was striving to create a phenomenon that would benefit everyone on the planet. However the powers that be chose a course of weaponry rather than His useful intention. Science can be used in amazing ways, most have wondered how in the new system we may achieve all that will benefit man and here is one aspect. Jehovah certainly gave us the intelligence to achieve all that would be needed to succeed in accomplishing the means to continue to thrive, to clean up the messes we have created in a positive and perfect way according to His laws of being good stewards of this earth we call home. He’s allowing just a smidgen of this knowledge to be discovered even now! Amazing stuff !

            • Burt Reynolds

              It was quite an interesting report, though I must admit that I fell asleep for a while listening to it. It was described as a completely new and unexpected nuclear reaction and was suppressed as long ago as 1989, by the scientists as well as the government, even though Tesla had found it decades before, and before the nuclear bomb. I’m sure he did have good uses for it but any government would suppress it and develop it as seems to have happened here. I agree with you. Jehovah and free energy, non polluting and got simply from a hydrogen atom, A, being the operative word, one atom! sounds right up his street!

  • The Raven

    You know what really gets me about these things? Even the angels don’t know everything. They peer into these matters to understand. I find that amazing. Thank you, Robert.

    • Anderiega

      ?.

  • Burt Reynolds

    What I would like insight on, is how? How do we share in the treatment of the brothers of Christ in a meaningful way? I have the impression that hoping and wishing is just not sufficient. How do we give support, to feed and clothe, to minister? I know that what we do to them, we do to Christ, but we need more of an understanding than symbolism.

    • Richard Long

      Robert said, this article:
      “The world will ultimately be brought into judgment with God for their treatment of the remaining sons of God after they receive their inheritance. Hence, the sheep and the goats will be separated on the basis of their treatment of the brothers of Christ then.”

      We do not know who they are until revealed, when their identity will be unmistakable. For now we may only know invited ones, and even then, only those who choose to make known to us their invitation. Until then, just keep growing in love. Opportunities to show it will present themselves, will they not?

      • Burt Reynolds

        Yes, that makes sense. There are going to be strange sights to see.

      • The Raven

        Well said!

    • John 3:16

      I agree with Richard. Just keep being who you are and you’ll do just fine 😉

    • Craig Knight

      One of my major questions I had after reading Robert’s book was Wow, this is all fantastic but how do I preach the Good news and not forsake our gathering together etc. Well, we gather here as a group and Jesus said where 2 or more He would be with us, I am studying with my old business partner and teaching the basics and what I’ve learned from Robert about prophecy. God moves us to speak but we don’t have to walk from door to door like robots to do it!

      • Cathii D’Anthonii

        Craig , all this new information Br. king has introduced hasn’t stopped me The truth is still beautiful, and simple. After a person has learned the truth it’s easy to introduce the 1914 aspect…it’s the natural flow for some reason…Helping a person to baptism is another thing and I keep bringing it up here….and the association here has really helped fill the gap.Because getting to the meetings has another set of problems

        • Craig Knight

          Yes I agree the truth is beautiful but not when it gets twisted and distorted. Thankfully Robert has helped us to see the flaws in wt teaching. As far as bringing people to baptism goes we can can still teach people the basic truths and Jehovah’s purpose for the earth etc. In Acts 8:30-35 when Phillip met the Ethiopian and explained the good news about Jesus. The Ethiopian was baptized right away. The truth was simple and the Ethiopian accepted Christ and was baptized on the spot. He didn’t have to go thru a bunch of questions from a bunch of Elders. He obviously didn’t say anything about following a group of men. So we teach people they accept Christ and Jehovah and then they get baptized. So teach who you can and then take them to a river or pool and baptize them. Easy peasy!

          • The Raven

            I wish they had done that for me, Craig. I agree. The truth is simple.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Yes, I can relate to those issues. The simplicity still shines through. If it didn’t, we would have cause for conern that the watchtower is a part of the prophesy. Helping someone to baptism: Craig rightly cites the case of the Ethiopian and it is true for some, as it was for me, that the truth is readily apparant, yet today, the lie is overlaying the truth and the unwary can be completely decieved, again, as was I, and as you so rightly point out, that 1914 lie follows naturally for us all, just like a river. As you also say, the meetings are a question for us all and that we all see in a personal way. Some of us heed the warning in our minds eye to get out, some feel thrust out, other feel it foreign to go and sit in the river of lies and try to touch the bedrock of faith under the surface and others are content and comfortable to just be there. I suppose this is the reason why we are all tested as individuals, because we can only perceive the concepts as individuals. That’s why you look so serene on that boat of yours while if it were me, I would be hanging over the side. What would life be like if we all were the same.

  • Observing Quietly

    So have been reading thru the comments here and just a couple thoughts I would like to share. For you Dear Burt Reynolds I thought lots about your questions on how to treat Christ’s brothers and Christ himself gives you the answer at (Matthew 22:35-40) 35 
    “And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
    As long as we “love our neighbor as ourselves”, we will not fail to treat any known or unknown brothers of Christ correctly.

    Another thought that has been floating around in my mind when I read these comments, is I worry that too much time and energy is spent worrying about who the anointed are, how they get chosen, what they may look like when revealed, when in fact we should be spending our time worrying about our relationship with Jehovah. For years in the WT they pounded us about being “approved”, but that approval was the approval of men. Yes, we need the anointed, but they need us as well. Otherwise, who would they rule over with Christ?

    Last thought I want to share, is I often see people talking about “testing” and implying that Jehovah is the one testing us. I cannot help but think of Job. Jehovah allowed the testing, but Satan is the one who actually did it. When we feel we are being tested, please do not say it is Jehovah testing us, because that is part of Satan’s lie. Note James words: (James 1:12-15) “12 Happy is the man that keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which Jehovah promised to those who continue loving him. 13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. 14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.”

    So more often than not, we test ourselves because of our own weaknesses and we come up badly.

    These are just a few thoughts I get as I read what each of you writes. Feel free to knock me back if you want.

    • Burt Reynolds

      I don’t think anyone could knock back those biblical thoughts OQ. I suppose many of us get the impression Jehovah tests us because we are supposed to ‘refine’ ourselves by his word; that we pray for the forgiveness of sin and that He does not lead us into temptation. Then on top of that, we get the very human sense of being governed and reproved, sold into slavery….ergo punished….and all the evidences of Jehovah’s anger. In human terms, there is only a slight hairbreadth between suffering the righteous anger and interpreting it as being a test for us. But as you rightly point out, that is our fault! Not Jehovah’s. I like the grounding you give, the sage advice from time to time as you quietly observe. It is the voice of reason in the maelstrom of life. We will have to create more maelstrom in life if we are to hear more from you on a regular basis! Nice to know you are out there observing.

      • Observing Quietly

        Hugs to you Burt, (this is where I wanted to say that, but put it on the wrong spot! LOL!)

        • Burt Reynolds

          It’s a sign of aging! Do you observe quietly from Australia? I shout and bore loudly from England.

    • #savekevin

      I’ve been observing more quietly and longer than observing quietly 🙂

      I’m worried that oq is too worried about the time spent on worrying about who the anointed are. Let them worry about that.

      Who really is our neighbour and are we all truly loving them as ourselves.
      Is this even possible in today’s world

      • Burt Reynolds

        I think the point of OQ’s comment re: the anointed had more to do with people being side-tracked from the main issues, ergo the things we should be doing now in respect of the preaching work et alia. It’s true that the anointed at this time are invited, not sealed, hence the questions on how would we identify them and treat them as brothers of Christ. The bible makes a clear point on that. It does have a point in that as they are not chosen at this time, such claims are borne in hope, and in a ‘secure’ shall we say, knowledge, though as you rightly point out, it is what they do with that, rather than what we think they should do with it. So OQ had a timely reminder for us, and which is all to the good.

        I agree with you that whilst we await these happenings, we should be doing all we can to love our neighbour, and that we need to do all we can to be doing the things we should with what we know to be right! Yet having said that, I for one find great security in determining the whole picture as this increases my understanding and thus strengthens my faith. For instance, I never considered that the anointed were as yet only invited to be anointed, not that they were fully approved as such, until I read it here and saw the truth behind the scripture. Had the point not been raised, I would still be of the opinion that it was a done deal, watchtower style. I look a it this way; whatever I find out now, fills my lamp with more oil, ready for the bridegroom, and as I am neither wise, or a virgin, I’ll take all I can get!

        • #savekevin

          I love your comments Burt. Yours are ones I seek out in the stream of regular comments. But oq didn’t say anything regarding the preaching work. I understood her comments to say that so long as one loves ones neighbour as oneself, then the potentially anointed are included. Nothing further required.

          As you say we must love our neighbour
          My main question here is ‘who really is our neighbour?’

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Kevin, my view on who my neighbour is, is quite simple. Everyone. I don’t think there is a choice at this stage. If the choice were down to me, I would be excluding all lower life forms such as politicians and street yobs. I’m afraid most of the French population would have to go, along with the Moroccan passport control that fleeced me. But thankfully, it’s not down to me and my prejudices, so I am working hard to maintain my sense of equality, mainly because that, there for the grace of God go I. I must be quite repellant to Jehovah and so I have to try to reflect his mercy, lest I condemn myself, but I have a sneaking suspicion that He is of the same opinion as me as regards the French!

            • #savekevin

              Sacre Bleu! What about the French anointed ? There’s a conundrum for you.

              Then there’s the kiwis. They’re not that likeable. They won’t let us aussies win anything. I don’t think any of them could be anointed anyway.

            • Richard Long

              I know one can walk barefoot on the kiwi islands… Oz,. Not so much! lol

            • Burt Reynolds

              The Kiwis can be forgiven for everything. The All Blacks Rugby team are all anointed and rightly so.

            • #savekevin

              This is what I’m saying though. They don’t play fair. They jumped the gun with the living in paradise… Having their reward in full

            • #savekevin

              Really Richard? You’re likely to fall into a pool of boiling mud or the cracks of an earthquake.

              Just think of the white sandy beaches of Australia. So what if now and then you have to step over a couple of snakes or spiders – it’s all part of the fun.

            • Richard Long

              Ever notice how the top 7 of every “Top 10 most deadly >anything<" list are found down under? Just sayin….

              Methinks y'all can teach Americans a thing or two about "rugged individualism"!

            • The Raven

              Haha! You’re right! Saw a video on that a while back and had some Aussie co workers who discussed getting stung or bitten so non nonchalantly we were astonished. They lived far from cities and had to take care of themselves. But every so often someone had to be airlifted to hospital. Beautiful land but it has a few unpleasant surprises. We have our share here too. I ran across a coral snake last month. That was a rarity in my area. Usually its moccasins and rattle snakes. Personally, the insects are what I dislike the most. Especially wasps.
              http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OroINYAm-5k/VacYx0ntqVI/AAAAAAAADjM/-cE7Re-FrSc/s640/Bees%2Bv%2Bwasps.png

            • Richard Long

              I’ve been face to face with a few rattlers back home in CA, but haven’t seen a copperhead or cottonmouth these last 19 yrs in KY. Have had some pretty healthy specimins of non-poisonous” visitors to our place, though. Too wet for rattlers here it seems.

            • Burt Reynolds

              The top ten most deadly items in the northern hemisphere. 1/ Stalin, 2/ Hitler, 3/ nuclear bomb, 4/ the guys who made it and launched it, 5/ Margaret Thatcher, 6/ Catholic Church, 7/ Spanish flu, 8/ China Russia and America and Britain, 9/ McDonald’s and 10/ English boarding school. I could go on….although Oz is full of crims (courtesy of Victorian law courts), and spiders and my brother-in-laws family, I would say it’s a pretty safe place to be!

            • Burt Reynolds

              There can’t be any anointed French. How would Jehovah be able to communicate with them? Even Jesus didn’t use French wine when he performed the miracle at the wedding feast. I’m fairly certain too that French public toilets will figure heavily in the horrors of the tribulation also. After all, you didn’t hear any complaints from the French when Jehovah sent the plague of frogs on Egypt either! I think I had better go and ask for forgiveness now….

          • Observing Quietly

            Thought for you #savekevin: (Luke 10:29-37) “. . .the man said to Jesus: “Who really is my neighbor?” 30 In reply Jesus said: “A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jer′i·cho and fell among robbers, who both stripped him and inflicted blows, and went off, leaving him half-dead. 31 Now, by coincidence, a certain priest was going down over that road, but, when he saw him, he went by on the opposite side. 32 Likewise, a Levite also, when he got down to the place and saw him, went by on the opposite side. 33 But a certain Sa·mar′i·tan traveling the road came upon him and, at seeing him, he was moved with pity. 34 So he approached him and bound up his wounds, pouring oil and wine upon them. Then he mounted him upon his own beast and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 And the next day he took out two de·nar′i·i, gave them to the innkeeper, and said, ‘Take care of him, and whatever you spend besides this, I will repay you when I come back here.’ 36 Who of these three seems to you to have made himself neighbor to the man that fell among the robbers?” 37 He said: “The one that acted mercifully toward him.” Jesus then said to him: “Go your way and be doing the same yourself.””

            The point seems to be that no matter who we meet in life, we need to be kind, loving and merciful. Love them as we love ourselves as Jesus said. If we make this a practice all the time, then we may find ourselves in the same position as those who entertained angels mentioned at: (Hebrews 13:1, 2) “13 Let YOUR brotherly love continue. 2 Do not forget hospitality, for through it some, unknown to themselves, entertained angels. ”

            For us that would include anyone having the invitation of being anointed.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              But then, here is where Jesus said the line was, Matt: 10:14.Shake the dust off your feet”. Having spent most of my life being JW, naiveness gets in the way.
              Here’s how to clear the room…Talk about the Bible….. Talk about dental surgery….works every time.

            • Daisy

              Love it! By asking ‘And who is my neighbour?’ verse 29 tells us that the lawyer wanted to ‘justify himself’. Himself!! Wasn’t he testing Jesus…
              The lawyer couldn’t even begin to admit that the Samaritan was showing obedience to the Law…’how do you read it?’ asked Jesus, after he replied ‘what is written in the Law?’ The one showing mercy was all he could say.
              So by following the storyline in the parable, the question goes deeper than who is my neighbour. It’s more to do with Who Am I! Do I show the same love, care and mercy to everyone I meet! The answer is, No!!! All we can do, as individuals is to try our best, as much as we possibly can.
              To love people as we love ourselves, as you so rightly say OQ…thanks for that…:D

            • Easach L S of Coimbatore

              Hello sister its me Easach the only brother from India but now no more in Karnataka but in Coimbatore.

            • Daisy d

              Hell-oh ho ho Easach my favourite Indian!
              So glad you made it.
              You and your little family are going to make Jehovah proud and let Coimbatore know you’re a’coming!
              Best wishes and love to you from Daisy.

            • #savekevin

              Agreed. Reasonably, your neighbour is someone you have contact with; your family, friends, acquaintances, someone you encounter on the street, along your way.
              But Jesus said regarding how you treat his brothers, that is something upon which one shall be judged when Jesus sits on his throne. Mt. 25:31
              It doesn’t follow that so long as you love your neighbour as yourself, that encompasses the anointed as well and that’s enough, and never mind who that are. We are to be judged based upon how we treated Christ’s brothers.

            • Observing Quietly

              #savekevin, so based on what I am reading as to your response, you feel that the command as to how to treat Christ’s brothers, takes precedence over what Jesus said was the second of the two greatest commands of all? If you treat your neighbor as well as you treat yourself, with love, mercy, kindness, patience and so on…how can you fail to treat Christ’s brothers the same? Remember, the entire purpose of Christ’s brothers? What is their job after all is said and done? Aren’t they given a job as Kings and Priests to take care of whom? All the righteous ones Christ selected to save on the earth, that’s whom. They will look at all of us to see how we “treat our neighbor” won’t they? If we fail to treat OUR neighbors to the same high quality we treated them, how do you think they will see that? No wonder Christ told us the command to “love your neighbor as yourself” was the SECOND HIGHEST command.

            • #savekevin

              I would say that we should reference the words of Christ, in order to answer that. Paying “more than the usual attention” is needed however, so that this detail is not missed. I believe that citing Jesus’ words again, at Matt.10:41, may address that point. It reads; “Whoever welcomes a prophet AS A PROPHET (some translations say, “because he is a prophet”), will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person AS A RIGHTEOUS PERSON (“because he is a righteous person”) will receive a righteous person’s reward.” —- My reason for citing this verse, is that the person who welcomes a prophet or righteous person, must first recognize that he is a prophet (or righteous), when welcoming him into your life and faith. Think about how hard that is for JW’s… when that prophet or righteous person is disfellowshipped for apostacy.

          • Bklyn Kevin

            Who really is our neighbour?’

            Jesus said: “The one who acted mercifully toward you.

            Illustration of the neighborly Samaritan Luke 10:(25-37).Read more>
            https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/luke/10/#v42010025-v42010037

    • Beverly kenyon

      Hi OQ, just a thought….Ephesians 4:11. 1Corinthians12:27-29….these scriptures make it clear that SOME Christians would be more suited to certain aspects of preaching the Gospel than others as I’m sure in your case considering your circumstances. JW’s require ALL of their members to be preachers and teachers and of doctrines that are not found in the scriptures. Great to see you’re still Observing Quietly. Much Christian love to both you and your husband.

      • Richard Long

        And so very nice and such a relief to “hear” your voice, Beverly. Your absence was felt deeply!

        • Beverly kenyon

          Awww, thank you so much Richard…that’s so lovely of you to say, I appreciate those upbuilding words, never change the lovely & nice man you are. I’m having my ‘Damascene’ moment, my journey of discovery of what it means to be a Witness to Jesus Christ our King and Saviour as there’s no better name than to be identified by, than the one likened to Jesus: Christian. Acts1:8. Rev19:10. Pslms2:12. John3:15,18. It’s that name right there that brings Salvation as the Heavenly Father has entrusted ALL things in Heaven & Earth to his Son….he’s in charge!

          • Richard Long

            When we read Robert’s articles anew with eyes focused forward, we see that he has for years heralded the fact that during the actual parousia the WT will be irrelevant for salvation and shall become a stumbling block, in fact. We do well to consider what relevance the WT has for us now. ?

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yeah, I’ve got RK to thank for kick starting my journey and giving me the opportunity of meeting some spiritual, interesting, clever, extremely hilarious & funny people, people I would never have met otherwise, at least in this system, but come the actual Parousia ALL Christian organisations, the LOT OF THEM will become irrelevant and a stumbling block. That’s why we do well to Kiss the Son now while seasons are favourable. Keep digging Richard and find Faith. X

            • Burt Reynolds

              Answers on a postcard please Richard!

          • Joseph Stephan

            Hugs!?

            • Beverly kenyon

              Big smile on my ‘mush’ (face), Joseph.? Loads of hugs straight back to you! X

            • Southern ShaSha

              Dear friend Beverly! Big smile on my “sad” (face). Miss you much!!!
              Think of you often!
              Love to you, Joyce

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hi Shasha…sooooo fantastic to hear from you but I always looked out for your insightful comments and you do know I count you as a friend and I always mentioned you to a friend here on watchman. Hope you and your lovely family are good Shasha. I’m on my workmates phone so struggling a bit and can barely see the keyboard as I’m blind as a bat as I’ve just found out! Lol. I no longer class myself as a jw but more a witness to Jesus Christ the King as it’s that name that brings salvation and like him all of us will eventually have our Gethsemane/golgotha moment that and our Faith. Lots of hugs & Christian love Shasha. X

            • Southern ShaSha

              Thank you Beverly for your reply. I have looked to you as always being sincere and truthful, as a lover of Jehovah God and of course His Son, Christ Jesus. I have always felt a very personal relationship with you not only in the faith but the many commonalities we share in our personal lives.
              I would hope to be able to speak with you, as to where you are today. I have sincere questions, would love to be able to speak with you personally at some point and time.
              Sincerely your Christian sister in the faith!! Again, love to you!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Smiling so much at your kind words Shasha. Just this minute telling Gazbo about what a lovely Christian lady you are and with a really lovely family. That would be great to be able to speak to you personally so I will pass on my email address if you like. When I get home after this shift I’ll post it you. It’s been murders here with shoplifters and high maintenance customers it’s getting harder to deal with the public…we see them all Sahasha! X

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hi Shasha, finally got home! Phew! That was gruelling. My email address is: bevkenyon11@icloud.com so please feel free to get in touch when you want to as that would be really great to be able to have a chat. Look forward to hearing from you. X

            • Beverly kenyon

              Shasha, I’ve posted your post to myself. Duh! Shows how rusty I am at posting as I’ve not done it for ages now! Sorry about that. Hope you get that email address of mine.

            • KB

              More hugs!!!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Awww…thank you. At work now but couldn’t resist reply back to you. My work mate Gazbo had to sign me in on his phone as discus was taking forever to log me in on my phone so Gazbo took pity on me as I was really eager to reply to you and Shasha…Gazbo knows about watchman and ones here on this site. He loves hearing about what’s happening on watchman and what’s being discussed…just asked him and he’s just said, ‘I do actually. Been telling him basic bible truths so he now has a basic knowledge…hes such a gentle soul. Lots of love back at cha KB. X

            • Joseph Stephan

              Hugs for Gazbo !! Hi Gazbo

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hi Joseph, Bev has told me good things about all the characters and goings on on e-watchman, I feel like I’m part of it myself! From Gareth aka Gazbo.

      • Observing Quietly

        Thank you Beverly Kenyon, I appreciate your interest. Hubby and I are doing well. Those are great scriptures you mention and show that Jehovah loves us as individuals for the individual ways we worship him.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Regards to hubby and you as well OQ.

    • Noe Namely

      Hello Burt, Yes, I am not as enlightened as most of you guys but I have never felt that Jehovah was testing me, rather Satan and his grunts pulling the strings trying to reel me in…like a fishing pole if you will. I’d like to ask a question please. I’m very confused by something I read a few minuets ago. I just read that we are to be judged by the way we treat the Anointed Brothers when they join Christ. Did I get this right or am I off several degrees? Years of Watchtower indoctrination left me thinking my salvation was pretty much shot to pieces. I was taught that my salvation rides squarely on the Door to Door Field Service and following the direction of the Watchtower Organization/Governing Body. My whole life I have not been able to make myself knock on those doors. I came very close 2 years ago but an altercation with a young elder caused me to pull out..I went back a few but felt a hypocrite for trying to act like I was completely in step with all their teachings. As a 10/11 year old child, I tagged along door to door two/three times and once more at age 20 after I was involved in a serious accident & hurled through a windshield head first. Still, I’ve always held on in hopes that the Watchtower might have had it wrong like other things I’ve sensed were out of focus with them since I was very young. I need to understand the meaning of “How we treat the Brothers” when they join/are with Christ? Is this how we are to be judged or door to door work etc? Thank You.

    • Noe Namely

      Yes Bert, agreed. I struggled with understanding the meaning of Scriptures more than probably anyone here. But I have never thought Jehovah was testing me, rather, Satan and his bunch trying to reel me in…like a fishing pole if you will. I’d like to ask a question if I could? I just read something that seems far different than I’ve been taught for years. I was indoctrinated JW off & on since I was 5 years old. I’m 65 now. I’ve always suffered under the thought that my salvation is shot all to pieces & basically having no hope. If I understood correctly, salvation rests squarely on the Door to Door Service and obeying the Watchtower Organization/GB. In the article above, I just read that our judgment is based on “How” we treat the Anointed Brothers & Sisters when they are with Christ. For this to happen, is this while they are still in our midst…like during The Great Tribulation & or Judgment? Did I understand this the right way or have I completely missed it? I have never given up hope that WT may have been “off” concerning the requirements for salvation, as I had already sensed other areas seemingly out of focus since my late 20s. I’ve kept my mouth closed about them and tried to be a good JW, barring Field Service. It was something I just couldn’t do no matter the guilt I bore for not participating. 3 years ago I buckled down, deciding to make an effort of a life time to commit to the Field Service phase of my life. So, I began doing independent research, no householder was ever going to stump me at the door! I always hated seeing the Brothers I was tagging along with getting stumped and having to return with the facts or an Elder. It wasn’t happening to me if I could prevent it. To tap into an Encyclopedia for historical, provable info, I Googled the Fall of the Temple for one…this search led me directly to uTube and a few well researched videos about the Watchtower organization that eventually removed the OFF’ness I had been sensing for about 40 years. After all of that, I am more confused than when I went to the K Hall 3 times a week. I seem to be in need of a bit of direction if it’s not asking too much? Thank You!

      • Bklyn Kevin

        Supporting Christ’s Brothers During Their Humiliation.
        Excerpt:By claiming that the sheep are rewarded for merely having engaged in the ministry or given monetary support, the Watchtower has essentially rendered Jesus’ illustration into meaninglessness. As the article correctly notes, Jesus said nothing about the preaching work. In the illustration the sheep are distinguished because they gave Jesus’ brothers food when they were hungry and something to drink when they were thirsty. They clothed them in their nakedness and tended to them when they were ill. They visited them in prison.

        Obviously, though, those who are directing the preaching work of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who have declared themselves to be the brothers of Christ, are not hungry nor do they suffer from thirst. After all, they have at their disposal a multimillion dollar corporation. Neither are they homeless. Far from it. They live in quite comfortable quarters with chefs and maids and house-servants who tend to their every need. If they are ill the Bethel infirmary is staffed by highly trained volunteer medical personnel. And none of the leadership of the Society have seen the inside of a prison since 1918.

        Needless to say the actual commencement of the presence of Christ will come as a stunning and humiliating development for Jehovah’s Witnesses, and especially the leadership. It will create a situation that will bring about the parting of ways between the wise and foolish virgins and the faithful and unfaithful slaves. Those judged to have been faithful – in spite of their having blindly embraced the 1914 delusion and all of the hokum attached to it, will then be granted entry into the Kingdom and commence the final phase of witnessing to the world as sealed sons of God – the true brothers of Christ.

        But the final witness will be given while they are in their lowly condition – some literally in prison. No doubt those presently associated with Bethel who are judged to be faithful will find themselves on the street, homeless and hungry. That is the situation in which the sheep and the goats will be judged as to how they treat those who are crushed by the disciplinary hand of Jehovah during the judgment of the house of God..
        Read more> https://e-watchman.com/supporting-christs-brothers-humiliation/

        Read a lot more>Search results for: “How we treat the Anointed Brothers.
        https://e-watchman.com/?s=%22How+we+treat+the+Anointed+Brothers

        • Noe Namely

          Thank You Bklyn Kevin, I greatly appreciate your time, explanation & the links you provided. I think I’m going through a long settling down phase having realized things are not as I was taught growing up. Having left an organization I literally feared, I am amazed at the hold they still have on me? It’s gotten much better since blocks of time have passed without incident or drama. I am still tempted and still manage to see those temptations for what they are….”Bait.” All in all, my view toward organized religion is quickly changing. I’m beginning to feel like the “answer” is far simpler than I was taught. I’m coming to see that our relationship with God and his Son is more about the personal relationship and how we respond to life’s temptations…making the right choice in honor of that relationship, not from fear of men or an entity. It’s simpler, far more respectful to our Creator and the Son he sent to buy back our sin, if we simply “believe” & then act accordingly based on that belief. This is how it feels & how it appears to me at least.
          Thanks again Kevin!

          • Richard Long

            I’m at the same place as you, NN on the matter of organized religion A dear friend recently said it is all false and therefor all doomed to the dust bin. Also, Robert has very clearly helped us to understand the parousia ushers in the end of Christianity FIRST, before the rest is even given a looking over. My position of late: If a live dog is better off than a dead lion, a dead dog must be better off than a live liar.

  • Marisa Gomez

    It is easier understanding the apocalypse after readdyng your posts….thnks brother King

  • Burt Reynolds

    Is Trump getting hammered daily by the press in the USA? It’s a daily occurance from the BBC, and yesterday they all but said he was now a lame duck since he signed in the Russians sanctions. They also said that he can be forced to Court over the Russian interference in the US. election on the grounds he connived in it. The BBC are so biased here they make CNN sound like a true news channel!

    • The Raven

      Yes he is. Every major news outlet here carries this front page virtually every single day. It’s disgusting just how blatant their bias is and very few call them out on it. No one that I know of trusts anything the MSMs have to say anymore. The congress and senate have obviously conspired against him and are undermining any effort to settle disagreements with Russia. Any outward signs of the basic civilities extended to other foreign leaders or diplomats is spun to make it appear as though he is appeasing or colluding with them in some yet unknown and unproven manner. I’ve never seen anything like this before in politics. Not this bad.

      • Richard Long

        Bloody Nixon got better press!

      • Observing Quietly

        Hugs to you Burt

        • The Raven

          I’ll pass that along to Burt for ya! lol!

    • Richard Long

      It’s as bad as all that and worse. London owns the press, the Congress, the Courts and the Administration. The only time the truth is told is to misdirect attention from an exposed lie. I mentioned before that Mr Trump seemed to have hired every one of his enemies he could find a desk for.

      • The Raven

        Yep. I remember that.

      • Brian

        Richard, do you realise that this London or the “city of London” that is referred to on here and in many other internet sites is purely part of a conspiracy theory, a theory that some secret society actually runs the world? I know it might seem plausible but we looking on need to be seeing actual tangible entities to be able to make a call or judgement on what is actually going down, we use our faith in the unseen only in relation to God, Jesus and the realm that they dwell in whatever that is.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Me and Lyndon LaRouche.

          Excerpt:
          While there is definitely a long-running conspiracy to establish a world government through an empowered UN, it is not primarily a scheme hatched by American bankers. It emanates from the lords of London and other European aristocrats. Ultra wealthy bankers like Rockefeller, who has been a big promoter of the UN, even “donating” the land for the UN headquarters monolith, are simply held up as an American face to what is distinctly a British conspiracy to dominate and ultimately destroy Christian civilization.

          In demonstration of the fact, men in positions of power and influence in America are routinely knighted by the Queen of England. For example, Sir Henry Kissinger, who even admitted that he was a British agent; Sir George Bush, whose father, Prescott, worked in concert with London bankers to finance Hitler, even during the height of the war. And then there is Sir Allen Greenspan, the former head of the Federal Reserve Bank. Obviously, these and others were knighted for services rendered to the Crown.Read more>
          https://e-watchman.com/me-and-lyndon-larouche/

          Read a lot more> Search results for: London.
          https://e-watchman.com/?s=+London

          • The Raven

            I just made a reply about this in another thread. I agree that on the part of these wealthy elite having a bigger agenda a conspiracy does exist to further the aims of empire but the fact that they control the world’s wealth is not in itself a conspiracy. It’s well known and historically documented for all to see.
            It’s what they’ve done with that wealth and power that few people know about. But even there, they admitted through numerous statements that they want a world government and are working towards that through geopolitical and financial gerrymandering and sanctions and war. The 9/11 response ( or lack of it) was called an unfortunate series of events that were blamed on the alleged lack of inter-operability between military and numerous other agencies. That was BS. It was simply an excuse to tie all agencies under one authority. The “charges” placed on the US economy in the 2008 banking failures were meant to do the same thing; bring most of the world’s wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer powerful and rich people.
            They have succeeded. And as Robert has written about, they stand in a position to crash the system completely.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Does anyone in the USA, apart from media, politicians, the KKK and Joe the Redneck actually believe that the 9/11 was carried out by terrorists? I’ve always wondered. I think my credulity lasted until the building 7 accidentally fell over and was then confirmed by the lack of planes in the field and at the pentagon. Mind you, I believed in Father Christmas up until I was almost seven, when my brother told me it was my father. My brother ruined a lot of things for me.

            • The Raven

              Yeah and the BBC said it ” fell” before it actually “fell”. No one I know any longer believes that BS. I got rid of the TV shortly after 9/11 because I couldn’t stand listening to those lies any longer. Every damn channel every bobble headed script reader every “expert guest” liars all!
              The necklines got lower and the IQs followed suit! Then we bombed the hell out of Iran who wasn’t even allegedly involved looking for WMDs.
              I live very close to a base and there are many retired military and former government folks here. NO ONE I met believe 19 “terrorists” did this. The consensus here is that those “19” some of which were still alive, mind you were actually patsies framed for it. I personally think they came here to train as drug pilots like so many others have in those Florida flight schools.
              The question to ask is cui bono? And as always follow the money.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I wish I could get rid of my TV. I feel the same way as you. When I was in the USA I couldn’t tell what was advertisements and what was a tv show. In fact, I think there were more advertisements than content!

            • The Raven

              You’re right. There were more advertisements. But even the ads were loaded with subtle messages of far left thinking and liberal and immoral views. The ad companies framed their spiel to reflect the opinion of the media bosses. That’s why they all speak with the same vernacular.

            • The Raven

              Know why I listen to the hard stuff? Because they’re the only ones with enough brass to tell it like it is. There are a lot more but the music industry only promotes those who pander to immorality and everything presses the limits. System of down and those like them were talking about this all along. They were censored as were many others for their honesty. Even these guys get it and so do the many MILLIONS of their fans. Warning, language.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUzd9KyIDrM

              Lyrics:
              Why do they always send the poor?
              Barbarisms by barbaras
              With pointed heels
              Victorious victorious kneel
              For brand new spankin’ deals
              Marching forward hypocritic and
              Hypnotic computers
              You depend on our protection
              Yet you feed us lies from the tablecloth
              Everybody’s going to the party, have a real good time
              Dancing in the desert, blowing up the sunshine
              Kneeling roses disappearing into
              Moses’ dry mouth
              Breaking into fort knox stealing
              Our intentions
              Hangers sitting dripped in oil
              Crying freedom
              Handed to obsoletion
              Still you feed us lies from the tablecloth
              Everybody’s going to the party, have a real good time
              Dancing in the desert, blowing up the sunshine
              Everybody’s going to the party, have a real good time
              Dancing in the desert, blowing up the sunshine
              Blast off!
              It’s party time!
              And we don’t live in a fascist nation!
              Blast off!
              It’s party time!
              And where the fuck are you?
              Where the fuck are you?
              Where the fuck are you?
              Why don’t presidents fight the war?
              Why do they always send the poor?
              Why don’t presidents fight the war?
              Why do they always send the poor?
              Why do they always send the poor?
              Why do they always send the poor?
              Why do they always send the poor?
              Kneeling roses disappearing into
              Moses’ dry mouth
              Breaking into fort knox stealing
              Our intentions
              Hangers sitting dripped in oil
              Crying freedom
              Handed to obsoletion,
              Still you feed us lies from the tablecloth
              Everybody’s going to the party, have a real good time
              Dancing in the desert, blowing up the sunshine
              Everybody’s going to the party, have a real good time
              Dancing in the desert, blowing up the sun
              Where the fuck are you?
              Where the fuck are you?
              Why don’t presidents fight the war?
              Why do they always send the poor?
              Why don’t presidents fight the war?
              Why do they always send the poor?
              Why do they always send the poor?
              Why do they always send the poor?
              They always send the poor!
              They always send the poor!
              Songwriters: Daron Malakian / Serj Tankian

          • Daisy

            We onlookers will see tangible entities, in the form of UN trucks, rounding up innocent people purely because they are Christians and incarcerating them, and worse, in FEMA camps – of which there are many ready and waiting in parts of the USA – by order of the secret masonic Luciferian societies who do actually run this world.

            • Brian

              Hi Daisy, what we will definitely see and more than likely after the wholesale slaughter of a massive chunk of the worlds population is a “New one world governmental” arrangement that will compel everyone on the planet to “come on board” or “get with the program” or be castigated, what they will be saying and proposing will look pretty inviting to a world that has just witnessed the most devastating and destructive conflict that the world has ever been through, the “holy ones” and those that refuse to “bow down to it” will be the ones that get rounded up if you are still amongst it.

            • Richard Long

              No argument there.

            • Daisy

              Agreed dear brother!
              And what you say, I learned here, information attached to prophetic scriptures, amongst the many articles written by Robert for which I’m truly grateful.
              No longer a believer in Jws being innocent bystanders during the heinous horror the whole of mankind is facing, and now, with renewed faith encouraging a deeper, meaningful relationship with my Heavenly Father and his Son, my main interests are towards working on obeying Gods commands, not men’s ; so that when the Reapers arrive for the Harvest, and the sickle does its dividing work, the “fruitage” is so heavy within me it has me “bowing down “in humbleness before our loving Redeemer for all that he promises to those holding love for him within their hearts.
              High five!
              All prayers will be appreciated with thanks 🙂

            • Brian

              My prayers are with all that are seeking or searching the truth Daisy so it looks like you would be included! Good on you “Sis”, keep at it! : ) Sorry, don’t do the “high fives” but hand shakes and or hugs are just as good!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Back in those times when talking of the wheat & tares the only time that a second farmer planted on the same field as another represented a deep hatred. And it’s interesting to note that the tares stands tall and proud and almost arrogant and doesn’t produce any seeds…fruit….but the genuine wheat is bent double, bent down laden with seeds…’fruit’….and so it will be when the Harvest by the Saviour and his Angels begins, the tares…weeds will be very noticeable and the wheat like ones will be bending low, laden down down with the ‘fruitage’.

            • Daisy

              You understand my meaning and express it much better than I dear sis.
              Yes, the weeds are identified by their proudly refusing to move forward from the elementary principles of Christ, preferring to continually feed on the milk of God’s word and thereby releasing little to no fruitages of Gods Holy Spirit (Heb 6) so, as you say, when the Harvest is ready, and the Son of Man arrives using the sharp sickle in his hand , the weeds are obviously ready to be bundled up and destroyed.
              So happy to enjoy your lovely company Beverly 🙂

          • Brian

            You guys can bang on about this as much as you like but it is still and always will be just a conspiracy theory perpetuated by the likes of LaRouche and many more of a similar ilk. If this scenario has to be used to “uncover” the workings of the world for bible students and studiers, Jehovah has left us in a pretty vulnerable and precarious situation where it only belongs to a very few to understand what is going on and therefore relying on them to interpret what is happening on the ground that doesn’t emanate from the scriptures for us to see for ourselves, it once again becomes the domain of the “enlightened ones” to disseminate the message and the plebs just to listen and be told that this is how it is, this is the whole problem with organised religion in general.
            I have read the articles some time ago that you have linked for me Kevin but thanks all the same.

            I think you will be surprised by how it isn’t going to work out as we move forward to the day.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Brian :
              The point is regardless of the exact details and who Carries them out the apocalyptic episode will happen! Be ’cause GOD put it into man’s heart to do so.
              For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.
              Then the kings of the earth, the high officials, the military commanders, the rich, the strong, every slave, and every free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Revelation 1:15-17.
              Revelation 17:17.
              So my word that goes out of my mouth will be.
              It will not return to me without results,
              But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight,
              And it will have sure success in what I send it to do.
              Isaiah 55:.2
              But who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears?.Malachi 3:2-A.

            • The Raven

              For my part I will continue watching what they do. I prefer to know about these matters and learn more as we come to the final days. I’ll give the usual about faith and love of course, but I’m not going to sit in the dark when God gave us the capacity to understand what’s happening, if even in part. THAT is for a reason.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I will keep on the watch as well.

            • The Raven

              Very interesting. I think he made a lot of folks mad when he didn’t hire these “associates”.

              CFR and Trilateral Commission Members In Trump’s Cabinet (And Hillary’s Ghost Cabinet)

              https://medium.com/@BaruchK/cfr-and-trilateral-commission-members-in-trumps-cabinet-and-hillary-s-ghost-cabinet-ad8721981d67

            • Richard Long

              In that article, the author neglected to mention Mrs. Chao, SecTrans, is licensed for pillow talk with the senior Senator from Kentucky and Senate Majority Leader. That gives CFR some pretty good reach in the current government, too.

            • The Raven

              True but sec. transportation? Hmm. Given the numbers of previous admins and what might have been Clinton’s, I’d say he’s managed to keep it fairly clean. But I’m not impressed with his choices in some offices. I think many of them were based on having to choose from a limited pool of folks who haven’t been bought or sold. If that’s even possible.

            • Richard Long

              I meant long reach for his enemies. lol

            • The Raven

              Ok. That explains it.

            • Richard Long

              Let me know if you find ONE that hasn’t been bought AND sold! lol

            • The Raven

              I’d say there were a few. Their words and their deeds were a good example of people of integrity. But TPTB made sure they were marginalized and ridiculed and if that didn’t work…ruined or assassinated.

              Are you familiar with this book? I loaned it to a friend decades ago and never got it back. Meant to get another copy shortly.
              NONE DARE CALL IT CONSPIRACY by Gary Allen 1971

              here’s a few summaries:

              In 1919, Col. House met in Paris with members of a British secret society called The Round Table in order to create an organization which would promote the creation of a world government to the citizenry of America and Europe, with the selling point being ”creating world peace.” At the meeting House met with the diamond magnate Cecil Rhodes, who created The Round Table in order to fulfill his lifelong dream of creating a ”New World Order” where British rule would be extended throughout the world. As a result of the meeting, the United States based Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) and British based Royal Institute of International Affairs (RIIA) were created as independent bodies that would closely associate. Essentially the entire Insider crowd were founding members of the CFR, such as the Morgans, Rockefellers, Federal Reserve creators such as Paul Warburg, and others such as Jacob Schiff, Averell Harriman, Frank Vanderlip, Nelson Aldrich, and Bernard Baruch. The CFR then became known as ”The Establishment.”

              The CFR worked to control the U.S. State Department to make sure there would not be any slip-ups in establishing a world government as there had been after World War One. The group which designed the United Nations included at least forty-seven CFR members, including many Communist spies such as Alger Hiss and Harry Dexter White. Political Affairs wrote an article in the April 1945 issue calling for the importance of rendering any opposition to the formation of the UN and it’s treaties impotent in order for the Senate to be able to have enough popular support for the bill.

              — The book states: ”.. CFR members were at the elbow of the American President at Tehran, Potsdam, and Yalta— where hundreds of millions of human beings were being delivered into the hands of Joseph Stalin, vastly extending the power of the International Communist Conspiracy.” ”The goal of the CFR is to abolish the United States with its Constitutional guarantees of liberty.”

            • Richard Long

              Reminds me…. gotta reply But on his Constitution comment.

              Not read this exactly title but what I have read has given me the same gist. Don’t forget the nefarious Ford Foundation! lol

            • The Raven

              I am more familiar with this author and several others like Webster Tarpley than I am with Larouche. I haven’t read much of his work and some of these other folks have been saying these things much longer. The fact that he seems to agree with their evidence is interesting too. It’s is very easy to find these connections and many interviews and documents (none of which were classified) exist to support these findings. It took me years of going to the freaking library and praying a book I wanted wasn’t checked out already. I would stand at the desk waiting for some to be turned in!
              The internet changed all that, thank God! The information is at our fingertips. It’s pretty damn bad when folks won’t even make the effort to educate themselves about these things or worse; try to shut down discussion on it. Much like my arrogant, narcissistic and sadistic teachers did. They were wrong about everything. I can’t WAIT to see them again! Oh am I going to have some fun with THEM! LOL!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Interesting! The CFR are doing a good job in eroding constitutional liberties.

            • The Raven

              True. It’s not just them. There are a number of very vocal groups who’s “experts” and spokespeople troll the airwaves drumming up support for sanctions, war and every miserable policy the powerful demand. It hurts the common citizen immensely and these folks don’t care about any of us at all. None of these conniving and traitorous people have the best interest of this nation in mind. It’s disgusting how the very people who press these policies then have the gall to say we are a conceited and arrogant nation who believes in American exceptionalism. No we do not. THEY do. And they want the world and everyone in it under their control.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Reminds me of boarding school!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Dr. Moreau (aka D3αd 4l¡€π) Robert King •
              like ive said and same with Kevin, i think Brian doesn’t read what you write even though he says he has or he just needs to re-read things more then once but even that isn’t going to do any good if he’s not looking for truth of the matter but trying to make his own ideas fit what he wants to be the truth

            • Brian

              I do or have read them already, it’s just that I don’t necessarily agree with the entire content of what is/has been said or relayed. It is not my idea of the “truth” that I am looking for and after the JW experience it’s not someone else’s idea of the “truth” that I am looking for either, I like to invoke “do not believe every inspired utterance or letter as though from one of us” scripture to make me look at the scriptures deeper without pre-conceived ideas or notions of what it all means. There has been enough lies spewed out over the centuries already and the JW’s are right there with the rest of them, started with a lie and built on it from there and many of those lies still permeate through peoples beliefs and understandings even though they have distanced themselves from the source .

          • The Raven

            Let me also add that it’s the well known alphabet agencies and media who smear any legitimate researchers as conspiracy nuts whenever these facts are brought to the forefront of discussions concerning the goals of the elite. The “think tanks” and other globalist groups have been at this for many decades. They recruit from all arenas and have been for a very long time undermining the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights to secure protection for their subversive activities. They fully support the UN in this endeavor and make no secret of it. If these people had been exposed earlier they could have been tried for a number of crimes and sentenced to harsh prison terms or even death.
            It’s obvious to me that the pot is damn near boiling and some folks are still telling us, “Come on in. The water’s fine!”
            Thank you Kevin for bringing this up. The facts support this even without Larouche or “conspiracy thesorist’s” writings. He merely collected the relevant information and saw how scripture applied and wrote essays on these things many of us would not have been able to connect without a little help. For that, I am grateful. I’ve known for decades the bankers and their cliques would be at the helm of any disaster and if something does go boom those sons of the devil will be the ones to profit from it.

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s a fact that the Americans have their rights enshrined in the constitution, whereas in England, we have what we cannot do enshrined in law, and everything else is permissible. We can do no wrong but you guys have to make sure it’s covered to be in the right, as in the right to bear arms ( loosely put. There is more to it than that). As for things that go boom, it adds more credibility to Roberts suggestion of atomic warfare, when one considers the evidence of an atomic weapon that does not produce radioactive fallout. People still die in their millions, but the earth remains habitable. Thus the ‘sons of the devil’ will indeed profit from world war. What better motivation can there be when they have a nice shelter to go to, and only have to wait until the shooting stops before they can come back to a world cleansed of the common masses? I just have a vision of Rothschild emerging from the ground, like some unearthly living corpse. All that money and he’s stupid enough to think everything will be tickity-boo when he opens up his ‘boom-proof’ shelter!

            • The Raven

              Of course it supports what Robert wrote about this. Even without the Larouche or any other so called “conspiracy” it’s all out in the open. Only a completely naive or brainwashed individual can’t or won’t see it.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Yes you’re absolutely right when you said
              “The facts support this even without Larouche or “conspiracy thesorist’s” writings.

        • Richard Long

          I can see its effects as plain as day. That’s the nature of my pondering whether must live the American experience to see it.

          Also, faith in the unseen in relation to God mandates faith in the unseen in relation to his enemy, does it not. You call it conspiracy theory, I call it suppressed history.

          • The Raven

            Considering the victor writes history, you’re right we only get one side of the story. It isn’t until many decades later we find out the “conspiracy theorists” were right! LOL!
            Some of us prefer to stay awake and watch these well known, well documented and self professed lords of their domains. Others well…it’s like George Carlin said, “nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care”. They prefer to accept the media’s and other agency’s claims that its just a “conspiracy theory”.
            It reminds me of the Rodney King beating caught on video and the police actually had the nerve to say what we were seeing wasn’t what it looked like! REALLY!!??
            Could have fooled me! Looks to me like a bunch of white cops beating the crap out of an unarmed black dude, but hey, maybe that’s just me!?
            Same with the bankers. They have royally screwed over MOST of humanity and OPENLY STATE they want to bring about a world government but some folks say we’re listening to conspiracy nuts right? LMAO!

          • Brian

            Richard, no one should have to live anywhere in particular to be able to see the powers that are obviously running the world, they are as plain as the nose on ones face and they are not hidden from anyone’s view. Indeed the “enemy” that is Satan is invisible to us but his arrangement on earth isn’t, it is in plain sight for all that wish to see it for what it is, nothing is hidden. I and just about everybody else calls it a conspiracy “theory” because it can’t be proven that it actually is what people say it is. It is also a an actual fact that LaRouche is a certifiable crackpot!

            • black curtain

              Dear Brian, just read your comments, my apologies if I have
              misunderstood what you are saying, but without going too far into who is
              the King of the N&S the verse below shows that their identity is
              not critical to what we need to know. It is background.There is much
              more to the fact that the “City of London” (COL) has a part in this. The
              two kings always represented two different cultures and ideologies. If
              you haven’t already, please do some research on the “City Of Venice” a
              trading centre and middle power by itself, it has a history attached to
              the COL and a transference of operations to COL. As you read the verse
              below one or both these kings morph into an eight king a Fascist one at
              that. That will test all of us.

              (Revelation 17:6-11) . . .Well, on catching sight of her I wondered with
              great wonderment. 7 And so the angel said to me: “Why is it you
              wondered? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the wild beast
              that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns:
              8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to
              ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And when
              they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present,
              those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly, but their names
              have not been written upon the scroll of life from the founding of the
              world. 9 “Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: The
              seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And
              there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet
              arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while. 11 And
              the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eighth [king],
              but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.

              One thing I will say about LaRouche, he may be paranoid but that doesn’t
              mean there still not after him, his largest problem is that he is
              highly focused and probably a little self obsessed. I can think of
              worse faults. The matter of the phrase “conspiracy theory/ conspiracist
              is generally considered as a perjorative to inhibit conversation by
              character denigration, no matter who it is. Think US Senator Joe
              McCarthy and his witch hunts. That is not what I think you wanted to do,
              but in short it is something that needs to be used with care.

              It is interesting what you mentioned about “some secret society” that
              runs the world. I have to agree with you that it is hard to accept. But
              everything is in the wording. The society which I think you refer to is
              the COL and it is not a secret society, rather a society with secrets.
              Quite a difference. In fact just about everybody knows who belongs to
              it, the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, Rothschilds, Soro’s to name a few.
              They are a very patient group who plan long term.

              It all fits nicely with the premise of Dan Brown’s book, The Da Vinci
              Code. The premise? Hide everything in plain sight. Most people miss
              things all around them everyday, yet have 20/20 vision, it is as if
              things were invisible. We all get a little busy with life. Personally I
              think it is the perversity of the demonic rulers of this world who are
              so bold and desperate to reveal what they are going to do to them while
              laughing at people who if they knew what they were looking at would
              rise up against the COL idealogues.

              Just some thoughts

              bc

            • #savekevin

              Not sure if you’re having a lend or not.
              I was interested in following up on the ‘CoL society with secrets’ you wrote about, and its members – Vanderbilt, Rothschild, Rockefeller, Soros.
              Seems it is indeed a SECRET Society, as there is no credible mention whatsoever in any search result. Please cite your sources/references. Or is it a fiction the same as the da Vinci Code you mention?

            • Richard Long

              LaRouche only has relevance to me as one of many barometers of the state of geopolitics. He could be exactly right in every assessment he has ever made, but failing to see there simply is no human or political solution to the world’s ills, but his vigorous labors to promote the “American system a la Hamilton” makes him irrelevant but for good theater. Can we not see that when Robert directs attention to the work of LaRouche, he is doing no more or no less than pointing those who might need it to AN instrument with which one might take ONE measurment of the “weather”. Anyone who thinks there is a human solution to the dilemma facing mankind could reasonably be labeled as a “crackpot”, but I prefer to stick with “deluded”. This can in no way refute the impirical data – if it is, in fact, impirical – used to support positions held by LaRouche. It is not enough to simply say he is wrong without showing why he is wrong, which I believe cannot be done in the context of his situational analysis. Even his proposed solutions would work were they not in opposition to Jehovah, as they HAVE ALL worked previously when they were not so. The question I have for you is do you believe the parousia to be a near or far future event? If far, we’re ALL wasting time and effort here.

            • Brian

              It is LaRouche that is one of the main purveyors of the city of London and Britain in general story that gives any of this weight for people to be led along by such teachings, it is speculative at best and downright rubbish at worst, I’m one that runs with the latter.. A conspiracy is provable, a conspiracy theory isn’t, that’s why it remains in the domain of unsolved and to “prove him wrong” would be just as futile and exercise as he trying to prove he was right, best just to ignore it and watch the real story unfold. None of this matters at the end of it all but it does affect how people are directed along the way and whether this can be used to confuse them for the purpose of getting them to fall away before that time comes .

            • People tend to huddle together in masses. Ignorance is always the refuge. As long as everyone believes the same nonsense, they feel safe. That has always been the way it goes. Safety in numbers, and all that.

              For the most part, though, people are just too lazy and stupid to figure it out. And, of course, Satan knows that is true.

              But, you are right about one thing, I’ll give you that much. It doesn’t matter now.

              But, soon it will.

            • Brian

              Robert, what you just stated here could very easily apply to yourself, you have a group of devoted followers that “hang” on your words, I’m not looking for anyone to hang on my words and seeing as the “unveiling” of Daniel is not complete (unless we have entered the last days) there can and will be a different version of what is understood and has been the same understanding now by certain groups for a very long time now about the finer parts of the scriptures, “that have been sealed up until the time of the end”. JW’s have always claimed that they were the ones “roving about” and unsealing those very prophecies and words and many of these understanding have flowed over into here.

          • Burt Reynolds

            One does not live the American experience, one endures it.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Hello Brian, the substance of the square mile, is tangible and has been for some time when the banking system started to grow in the late 1600s. One might even say that it began when the British parliament took control of the monarchy in 1649. But they were just weak politicians and, as today, the power lay behind cromwells throne. No man rules except by consent. The emergence of the square mile was evident well before LaRouche turned up. Surely no one can believe our prime minister has the slightest power, let alone an idea in her head, or indeed the majority of those that sit in parliament, or that a TV game-show host can govern the USA? The greatest indicator of the square mile and its governance over parliament and congress, and in the many avenues of European banking, and especially in Germany, is clearly marked by human behaviour. If LaRouche offends you….and he offends many…then you can always look at the people who are rich enough to bail out countries. Would they lend without control?….and their control cannot be individual, it has to be total and united and in exchange for what the recipient wants. Power. And a lesser power for the borrower, but power greater than the masses. Just look at any prison if you want to see a similar, unavoidable regime. The reason why this is so invisible is not because of some massive conspiracy but through the amazing simplicity of human behaviour in that our public and private personas are hidden from each other. There is no complex, ingenious plot, just plain human greed, an end-stage development of base instinct, to survive at any cost. The examples are all around us in plain sight and so common, they are invisible. One does not see these things with eyes, but with a sense of love, which is indeed the key to it all. Why? It is the only contrast in this world that provides the evidence of an explanation, and the answer along with it.

          • Brian

            Burt, my point is is if you have to look that hard to find out who the King of the North and South are in the places where something is hidden maybe they aren’t what people are saying, a bible student in the deepest Amazonian jungle would have a much better chance of identifying an obvious “world power” than something that is so hidden he needs someone else to direct him to it.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Well yes, that’s good reasoning. Unfortunately there is no convincing arguement to this question. The answers that there are, are ethereal and the questions are spiritual and both are based on our strength in faith. The obvious answers though, do not equate either and your example is an assumption ( I don’t mean that unkindly). As I noted initially, the common denominator is faith and this is the key to unlocking the paradox. What is the best blind? Is it both the obvious, and the implausible? Is that even likely? No! But the truth is yes, it is. That is why the jungle student in your analogy, chooses the obvious and rejects what appears to be implausible. You only have to look at the apparant business decrepitude of the square mile to understand that. If you tear off that scab , the inner workings of the body can be seen, but only, to we commoners, if we have the prophetic and faithful insight into the scriptures. If we do not have that, as you point out, the obverse is true and the implausible is masked by the obvious. People think it so because of its very plausibility.

              In fact, did we not all believe that, when back in the 60/70s we all thought Russia was the enemy? I did. Just as you say, it was plausible, and plausible because it was obvious. But even back then, to the faithful, such was implausible. The suggestion had many retractors. How we were decieved. But those faithful ones were not. And of course, deceit is the issue. If it were not, then sin ceases to be the contention of the Word. So it must be then, that the truth is hidden so that we have to choose and we can only choose if we have the substance in faith in things that cannot be seen. That applies to both Jehovah and his adversary and both are holding out their hands for our answer. Should you or I, or anyone, believe that the answer lies in obvious, tangible evidence, when the question is itself spiritual, and has to have keys of insight to perceive it, (or the perversity of the flesh to deny it), then we will be mistaken.

            • Brian

              I am not suggesting that we can’t have faith in the unseen as this is in fact the very definition of faith in regards to spirituality; “Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see”. Now you could apply this to here and now in regards to something unseen such as “the city of London” but for one we are not resting our faith in such things but all things related to God. As you rightly say about England or Gt Britain that it was developed back all those years ago but this in by no means a secret or proof of a secret society that runs the world that we have no need to concern ourselves about in any case, we need top be able to identify by ourselves the very entities that actually make up those that are described in Daniel and Revelation and if he really is going to use the “foolish or weak” for a purpose nothing would be kept in a secret place for them to never be able to understand what is going on. “But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.” To me, and I should imagine every other person looking on all these happenings and entities that are ruling need to be obvious to the observer.

            • Brian

              If anyone has any doubts about the US’s actual role in what is happening in the world right now one needs to look no further than the Wolfowitz “doctrine” that has shaped the US’s foreign policy since the fall of the Soviet Union.
              “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival,
              either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere that
              poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union.
              This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense
              strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from
              dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control,
              be sufficient to generate global power. These regions include Western
              Europe, East Asia, the territory of the former Soviet Union, and
              Southwest Asia.”
              This has the US’s Neocon Hegemonic finger prints all over it, I really don’t seen anything related to “the city of London” in it, it’s all about the US’s new found “omni world power ” status that no one according to them is going to take away form them. This is something that is pretty obvious and not hidden at all to all looking on. Even if there was some connection to the “city” they would still be on the same side and therefore the same “King”.

            • You are as clueless as American politicians and the media.

              But the fact is, the so-called neocons are all indoctrinated with British imperialism. I have explained the various conduits the Lords of London have used to infiltrate and influence American politics. One of the most visible organizations is the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) which is a sister organization of London’s Royal Institute of International Affairs, also known as Chatam House. Both institutions were set up after the US Senate refused to ratify the League of Nations, which at the time was London’s brainchild for setting up a world government. CFR was established to ensure that American nationalism would not interfere with London’s scheme for global domination in the future.

              Other academics, like the late Bernard Lewis, a British intelligence agent, is credited for having “educated” the latest batch of neocons who themselves have been in positions of influence since before 9-11. https://electronicintifada.net/content/bernard-lewis-service-empire/4276

              Of course, the attack on 9-11 was carried out by the Saudis, who are a mere satrapy of the British Empire. The attacks on New York and the Pentagon gave the neocons the pretext to launch the British Empire’s war that had been planned long before the Saudi terrorists were unleashed.

            • Brian

              I didn’t realise that I or anybody else for that matter had to be fully up to speed on USofA politics to understand what is so obviously going on in the world, I wonder how the people in Swaziland or Timbuktu get on understanding the inner workings of all this secrecy to work out what in the world is going on!!

            • The Raven

              It’s global. Not just US/UK. Not everyone can read or write. Not everyone believes in God. Not everyone can teach. Not everyone can follow these matters. Not everyone even cares about these things. Does that make them irrelevant? Hardly. What about Swaziland or Timbuktu? What about any nation at all? I’m sure there are folks there who know the inner workings of the world’s powerful men and I’m equally confident that they have just as many ignorant or deluded folks as the western world does.
              Do I think it matters to these people? Maybe a few. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? To some it may. I truly believe that informed folks are better able to understand what’s happening than the ignorant. Will it matter when the time of the decision comes? I don’t know. Most do not know Jehovah or Christ. Scripture plainly states the vast majority will not survive. In the window of time between the war and the beginning of the beasts’s rule this may be valuable to many who have been peripherally involved with Christians or JWs.
              I do not know the details of the test to come. I do not know if we will all be faced with the same sorts of decisions. I know we will be forced in some way to choose sides. Any information that sheds even a little light on these matters is of great value. These things were spoken about in my house ever since I can remember since my parents were both from nations which were war torn. God knows what each one of us is capable of. I believe the test must be within the capacity for each individual to understand exactly what he is going to do. That would be fair. Will the information we see now help? Maybe. But I certainly know that it cannot hurt to be aware of these evil men’s plans which they have openly spoken about for many decades and from numerous sources including governments and their associated think tanks.

            • Brian

              When I make a reference to something like Swaziland it is keeping in mind the peoples that are in far flung countries and are actively searching for the biblical truths and prophecy understanding that are not privy to inner workings of conspiracies or there associated theories that go with many of them. This is in mind to work out the likes of the King of North etc, when the end time does arrive these will be revealed and there is good chance they are not what some are promoting them as now, this is a point of my point, it is not “signed sealed and delivered” as some may imagine.

            • The Raven

              You have your ideas of what this is and others have theirs. So…what’s the problem ? I am certain many folks worldwide have seen the obvious connections to Tyre and Egypt and agree that they fit the US/UK historically and at present time. I see some astonishing facts I did not know before only recently come to light. Not all of it from here either. I’ve mentioned in other threads that these are things I’ve studied for decades back when information was piecemeal and difficult to find. Not anymore. This is not a great secret and since the internet many millions, especially the younger crowd who don’t trust authority anyway are awake. Even the music is loaded with reference to these controllers and elite! They know! Granted much of it is filled with expletives and obscene, but it’s not as obscene as what’s been done to us by these rich overlords! It is not a “conspiracy theory” when it CAN be proven with a few minutes of research. How hard is that?
              Just like folks who refuse to seek the truth and expect others to do the work for them, even the things concerning the masses are readily available if they would only look. You and I both know that. I’m sure you’ve heard the term, “low information voter”. That’s because the media, government and religious institutions don’t want informed folks who can see through their bs. I give some folks a lot more credit than that. They can see through it and for those who wish to explore it further… it is an open book. Not all of us are ex JWs who are still dealing with the mindset. Many of us simply were attracted to Robert’s work because we had already figured out a great deal of this long before we found him. Anyway… that’s what I’m saying. The details are still a bit obscure right now since not all is scripturally known. But the main frame work of these demonically driven men and institutions is clear for any who would look at them.

            • The Raven

              Speaking of young people most older folks view much of their rebelliousness and anger as a detriment when they don’t fully understand what’s at work here. This generation is targeted like no other and there is no let up in it. Much of their anger has been misguided by liberal and government subversives but the frustration is plain to see for a world they feel they do not belong to. The devil has also had a great deal of success taking their anger and making it self destructive. Here’s another example of just how obvious these folks make their agenda. This is from wikipedia, readily accessable to anyone who would care to look:
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission

              “Social critic and academic Noam Chomsky has described the Trilateral Commission’s goals in less-than-glowing terms. He criticizes the commission as undemocratic in pointing to its publication The Crisis of Democracy, in which the authors describe the strong involvement of the US population in the political process during the seventies as an “excess of democracy”.[12]

              “Essentially liberal internationalists from Europe, Japan and the United States, the liberal wing of the intellectual elite. That’s where Jimmy Carter’s whole government came from. […] [The Trilateral Commission] was concerned with trying to induce what they called “more moderation in democracy”—turn people back to passivity and obedience so they don’t put so many constraints on state power and so on. In particular they were worried about young people. They were concerned about the institutions responsible for the indoctrination of the young (that’s their phrase), meaning schools, universities, church and so on—they’re not doing their job, [the young are] not being sufficiently indoctrinated. They’re too free to pursue their own initiatives and concerns and you’ve got to control them better.[13]”

            • Richard Long

              I think the peoples you refer to have a far deeper understanding of imperialism than you or I might EVER fathom, they historically being on the losing end of that arrangement.

            • You don’t have to understand any of this. Just don’t pretend that you do.

            • Brian

              I am not pretending that I understand what you are talking about, I can see that you still hold many JW beliefs that direct your understanding of prophecy, I’ll use my own ability to read the scriptures and then look around me as to what is actually going on in the world, you know, what’s in plain view.

            • Burt Reynolds

              There are many isolated communities on earth and ŵhich would beg the same question. The fact is that they feel the effects, even if they don’t know the cause. Starvation, war….prevalent in Timbuktu…food shortages…the entire third world is underfed. What they will respond to however is that when the opportunity arises to embrace the kingdom, they will be able to do so with a full understanding, with no more advantage than we will, with the different understanding of world events that we have. ‘Different’ does not mean more, it just refers to the visible society that we reference in our minds. These values are no less plain in Timbuktu, but in fact, a whole lot more explicit than that with which we are exposed to. You will find it easier to see these things if you keep in mind what the outcome is to be…..the acceptance or rejection of the kingdom. We will all have an equal understanding of what that means. Our experiences in reaching that decision do not have to be the same as everyone else’s. Each one of us experiences crisis or pleasure in a unique way and with unique values. That is why we are judged as individuals.

            • Brian

              Yes Burt but I am not referring to them accepting the Kingdom, I am referring to them or anyone else looking on to determine the contents of the prophecies that relate to King of North, Beast etc so that they can determine the time frame and what will happen or what to expect when the next shoe drops, no one should be subjected to having to delve into the deepest depths to understand and see this for themselves. Even as it states “every eye will see him (Jesus)” surely every eye can see the world powers in plain sight. The ” them and anyone” more specifically are those in anticipation and knowing the story and the promise of the Kingdom which should in fact be every so called Christian on the planet.

            • Richard Long

              I guess my question would be whether anyone anywhere would even need to see the King of the North coming. Fun to explore, but necessary for salvation? Maybe for the minds of some individuals, maybe not so much for others?

              At some point in the parousia, we expect the eighth king and Christ to rule concurrently for some period of time. Every human alive then will have survived immeasurable trauma and yet will know they are choosing one or the other. Where one will need discernment is, as you have previously expressed, the eighth king’s offer will look mighty good to a traumatized population, whereas Christ’s kingdom may only have appeal for those seeing with eyes of faith. Due to the very personal and individual nature of this choice, can we not agree that previous religious affiliation will likely not be nearly such an indicator of one’s potential for making the choice leading to life as an indicator of one’s potential for stumbling?

              Robert has made abundantly clear his expectation that moment will find the WT, should it still exist, acting as AN (not THE) Antichrist. Should one expect to see that drama played out for every sect and denomination of Christendom? I do not know and cannot say.

              When you say:
              “The ” them and anyone” more specifically are those in anticipation and knowing the story and the promise of the Kingdom which should in fact be every so called Christian on the planet.”
              I have to apologize for my narrow exposure but, having only been “Baptist” and then “JW”, I am not aware of any other large scale effort that places ANY emphasis on the Kingdom as we here have come to understand it, a restoration of the earthly paradise administered by a heavenly government. Our dear brother Nigel assures me there are smaller groups around, and I trust that is true. But the Romans don’t teach it, nor the Anglicans, nor any of the Orthodox, nor the the Evangelicals, or my own original Baptist denomination. Can you please take a moment to relate how you yourself came to be “in anticipation and knowing the story and the promise of the Kingdom”? I believe I can promise I would have NEVER come to it on my own with just my King James Bible

              I try my best to remain open to the advancement of your positions but certainly only the tiniest fraction of ALL “so called Christians on the planet” have any notion of “the story and promise of the kingdom” that should be considered less ridiculous than the assertion that “all dogs go to heaven”.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I don’t delve into the deepest depths! I’m past that. I don’t understand a lot of what I read about world events. I cannot offer any evidence either, though some could. In fact, without false modesty, I am very small in the big picture in world events and view myself as just a traveller on this site living in a tent. There is little point in seeking exactitude in these matters. We will not find it. The bible does not ask exactitude from us. A great deal of what is said there is hidden from us. Though I do not dispute the role of finance in these end times, as a precipitator of destruction, I do not bother myself with the detail of who, how that may be or where, only that it is probably true. Why do I say it’s probably true? For the same reason that Jesus said, ‘those hearing my voice will recognise me…’ And holistically, not in detail and solid stone irrefutable fact, I hear that voice in truth spoken here. It ‘rings’ true. And that Brian, is all any of us can avail ourselves of. Faith. An assured expectation that these things will come about. But don’t forget that the ‘love of money is……..? That is a clue left for our consideration, and probably as much as we need.

            • The Raven

              “Our experiences in reaching that decision do not have to be the same as everyone else’s.”
              That’s my point exactly. Our accuser knows our faults as individuals and Jehovah knows what our abilities and capacities are. The test…whatever it is, will be fair. How we all get there is an individual endeavor and not all will have the same process to go through as this winds down to the final days.

            • youre repeating yourself; CFR and others, Saudis being a British pawn…
              sometimes you just have to repeat yourself. like ive said and same with Kevin, i think Brian doesn’t read what you write even though he says he has or he just needs to re-read things more then once but even that isn’t going to do any good if he’s not looking for truth of the matter but trying to make his own ideas fit what he wants to be the truth

            • Richard Long

              I would be satisfied with a simple statement of intent. Best I can tell, said intent is to antagonize our host. I’m literally beside myself trying to determine if I’m an idiot or Brian is being intentionally antagonistic. Probably both.

            • The Raven

              You are NOT an idiot.

            • Brian

              I’m not being intentionally antagonistic, if I have ever had a doubt I question it and that is the reason why I am not a JW anymore, it would seem that many don’t like people to question but instead they rather them to just “follow”.

            • Beverly kenyon

              True Brian. Personally, I don’t equate questioning more as being antagonistic especially when your life is on the line…everyone should question more and especially in regards to God’s Word and who wants to be a circle jerk anyway and wasn’t it because of questioning more one day most of us here on this blog let a couple of JW’s into our living room to find out questions like, ‘what is the purpose of Life, Is there a God, is there life after death, who goes to heaven, etc,etc. So when you and others here ask questions Brian ones like me learn from that. It’s good to see a person in control of his own mind and thinking and reasoning faculties and not afraid of speaking out for fear of being unpopular or fear of man. Imo that is.

            • The Raven

              Hi Bev! Where ya been ? There’s no problem with questioning anything. But dismissing as bs without acknowledging facts is not conducive to learning at all. Wouldn’t you agree? As far as the “truth” goes we all came to it from different avenues and I am appreciative of how Jehovah took us by the hand and opened our eyes and ears as long as we were willing. I have found in my experiences that some folks who were former JWs have become very bitter and angry when they learned TTATT. They throw away everything good they had along with the “delusion”.
              That’s sad. We can never underestimate our curiosity in seeking more truths even when that leads some of us to exploring the byways and highways of the ultimate controllers of this system. And they are by no means entirely hidden from view. Robert has made some great inroads into explaining some of these matters I think we would all agree. We may differ on some of the details but I feel it safe to say we know that our faith and love of Christ’s brothers and each other will be sorely tested come the time of the decision. In the meantime any and all information we can get serves to expose the devil’s agenda and the system’s structure and readers here may be inclined to search a little further into the matters even if they do not all agree with scripture or how this works out. We all have the right to examine, accept or dismiss any matter based on facts and evidence. If reasoning can support a view then we may entertain it for the time being until more is revealed. If it cannot, then we look to see what does, if it’s knowable. We live in a strange time. Things are in flux right now and we all know the system is on the edge of imploding for a number of reasons. I see no harm in trying to remain aware of our situation and use what God given insight or understanding we have to see how this fits in the greater narrative.
              BTW, welcome back!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Phew! That was exhausting! You caught me out there Raven as I was just demolishing my tea as I was bloomin Hank Marvin (starving) and it’s not a great sight when I’m hungry…have you seen Jurassic Park…well that’s what it was like and very unladylike! Lol. I’ve not been far but I will say I’ve been finding out what it is to be a True Witness and that’s a True Witness to the Christ. acts1:8. Rev19:10. All Authority in Heaven & on Earth has been given to him and it’s to Him Salvation belongs. I’m a Christian Witness to the Christ and that’s it!! Are JW’s Special? Well, that’s Yes & No. Yes, because they’re special to me as we have history as I was taught by them and fellow shipped with them, prayed with them and they’re my neighbours and No, because they prefer to follow doctrines of men and and push the agenda of an organisation lead by men who they idolise and are guilty and plagued by the same problems we see in organised Christianity as Satan has since the time of Nimrod, over reached all of them….all of them teach truth & lies….some more so than others. So for me, I personally have NOT thrown out the baby with the bath water as I’m sure Brian hasn’t either! I try not to overload with who the hell is the eighth King, the heads of beasts, this, that, even writing it my head hurts. All I know is, it’s going to happen and thanks to Brother King I have a fair idea of events but without going into great detail…I leave that to ones like you, Richard, DA, Bklyn Kevin, Brian and who ever else as you men seem to buzz off those prophecies. But know this, when it does kick off, all of us will on our own with our Faith, have our Gethsemane/Golgotha moment. There’s nothing wrong with with being aware of our situation in this vile world as its unraveling, don’t angels do that as well? And isn’t that why most of us speak to each other about such things on this blog? Brother King is fulfilling his ministry as one of the invited by feeding the Master’s Flock and for me, he opened up the Bible in a way that I wasn’t taught before and I won’t forget that but I draw the line at quoting him like I would things from the Bible as then then the lines becomes blurred as to whom I’m following as I only have one Saviour and Teacher and that’s the Christ and I have one Heavenly Father to whom ALL GLORY should be given.

              Thank you Raven for your kind words and keep digging for that treasure and for knowledge, wisdom & discernment, pray hard for it.

            • The Raven

              Jurasic park??! Haha!! You’re a card, lady! I agree, Bev. That’s why I am so grateful to find info I can sink my teeth into. When folks do quote Robert I think for the most part it’s because they’ve already made the connections and found it to be sound. I try to back up what I say with other bits of info much of it from secular sources. Especially in matters concerning this rotten system. Yep! The angels are very curious too! As to what’s not clear just yet…there is always room for discussion, of course. I don’t think most of us are in disagreement over the basic truths at all. It seems to be prophetic mainly and that’s where some scriptural reasoning as well as some very careful deductive reasoning comes into focus. Some boil it down to insight and I agree with that too. All of us have different interests and I am glad we all bring our own prospective to this venue. It would be pretty darn boring to be in an echo chamber and I was never a conformist to begin with. I’m sure you’ve noticed. But I do value Robert’s work a great deal and from what I’ve been able to study so far (there’s a ton of it!) it does check out. Thanks for your thoughts, Bev. I’m having a blast digging around in this treasure trove!

            • Richard Long

              Well, that’s that then. I wholeheartedly agree we should all question our doubts to satisfaction, but also contend that our doubts can not possibly be fully satisfied until the parousia is upon us and the revelation occurs. At that moment, we can expect all doubt will cease to exist throughout the entire creation.

              I am trying to understand just why some of us seem under compulsion to push Robert into a corner, effectively appointing him judge regarding every factoid under the sun. Just last week we thrust upon him the mantle of arbiter over the existence and nature of “chem-trails” Were any of us really surprised when he responded with sarcasm? The week before that it was Ancient Aliens. Frankly, I don’t know how he holds back from telling us all to go eat worms!

              Clearly I and many others afford to Robert a great deal of deference due to our belief in his anointment as one of the invited. Beyond that, we all have to untangle the WT programming regarding the false parousia which by extension implies all the invited are now sealed and we here can recognize is not the case. Paul, while still only one of the invited but having by my reckoning possession of as much Holy Spirit as any living man save Jesus, plainly stated that even he saw only a hazy outline in a metal mirror. And yet he also plainly stated what he saw, as he saw it, with the express understanding that it was GIVEN to him. All reports are that he had the “privilege” of enduring a fair heap of abuse by his detractors.

              I guess it would help me to understand you personally, should you care for me to, if you were to plainly state whether you find authenticity in Robert’s profession of invitation. If you don’t, that would, for me, explain a lot of what I see transpiring here and allow me to move along with a clearer situational awareness and without all the the consternation.

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              Brought up the subject of chem-trailsbecause we have watched the planes criss-cross patterns over our head and saw it float on the water day after day and peopke in town started noticing them so they apparently stopped or do it at night. Nonetheless it wasn’t to disparage Br.King. We feel sick from it.!

            • Cathii D’Anthonii

              I hesitate in not referring to myself as Jehovahs witness, although they are probably head hunting now..We are being reproved by Jehovah as a spiritual nation as Daniel also included himself in his prayer to Jehovah when askingfor forgiveness.Do we, or are we denying Jehovah by saying we are no longer Jehovahs witnesses?

            • Richard Long

              I myself had my first experience in this Sunday night at work. I was loaned to a team as was co-worker I had “known” for some 18 years but never really spoken more than three words to. He asked to verify if I was JW and I could only say yes, but I had some real problems with my religion. Skipping over the minutiae, the encounter ended with me seriously wishing I had acted upon the idea – yours, I think – to load a few flash drives with Robert’s book. I did “place” the website and book title in writing with him without hesitation whereas I would never in good conscience be able to place a watchtower in his hand. Does that make me an ex-JW now?

            • The Raven

              Oh my. That is a very good question. I have difficulty with it myself even though I was never “technically” a jw. Every time I spoke about the basic truths it came up and I found myself saying I am not part of the wto but I am a follower of Jehovah and yes, we do believe Christ is His son and our savior. Believe it or not some folks felt more comfortable speaking with me than they did actual witnesses because they felt like they had some wiggle room in discussing matters of prophetic nature more freely. But I did not know what to say about the terrible situation the wto has gotten itself into with numerous failed predictions and twisted prophecy. I’ve been pointing to this website and explaining the judgment coming. I guess we can only allow ourselves to speak honestly considering what God thinks about those who lie or withhold the full truth. That’s how I view this. It’s all I know to do. My question about this is who really denied who first and isn’t loyalty to Jehovah and Jesus Christ above that of an org?
              I know it is. That’s my opinion from an “unwashed” hopeful.

            • Richard Long

              My opinion is that if Jehovah had ever been “with” the JW’s, he has evidently left them and I’m going with him, wherever that may turn out to be

            • The Raven

              I think he has been “with them” to some extent or they would not have been able to do what they’ve done. They exposed some really bad teachings and did preach the good news to a very wide audience. And they screwed up in other ways very badly as well. But…the reason I asked who denied who first is because I believe they left Jehovah along the way. I also believe he’s going to remedy that mess as per scripture about the slaves and the beatings and the WTO will be no more. A lot still remains unkown at this point. I have followed from outside the gate and will continue to do so. Nothing has really changed for me unlike many of you JWs active, inactive and former. Considering your faith and great love for the truth and Jehovah, His son and His brothers, you will be helped along to do the right thing when the time comes.

            • Richard Long

              I’m certain He has been with the JW’s in the past, albeit probably not nearly as “with us” as we have presumed Him to be. For just one evidence to add to those you mentioned, I’ll cite the SCOTUS victories by which the ENTIRE WORLD has reaped precedent for religious freedoms won through the persecution of the JW’s in America by the religious establishment. Ironic that those very freedoms are now being used by the empire as pretext for war with Russia, but Jehovah is THE master of irony!

            • The Raven

              Thank you for that. Strange work for sure. I have a feeling my little space outside the gate is about to become crowded. Cool with me 🙂

            • Daisy d

              And ‘if’ Jehovah had ever been ‘with’ the Jws, he would have had to have been with the Millerites and the Adventists also, as at the time dearly beloved Charlie had a lightbulb moment to set up a money making publishing company, the anti-hellfire, trinity, mortality of the soul, end time prophecy & all the central doctrines of the Jw teachings was well established, and in print by the above and established before the founding of the “Organisation”.
              So Richard, enjoy every heartbeat… you don’t have to go anywhere other than your head buried in His word and in your love for Him made into words in prayer…as… that’s where He is.
              Crazy daisy sends much love 😀
              Sorry to sound pious, don’t mean to be.

            • The Raven

              I cannot rule out other folks who also saw the truth back then. I tend towards Jehovah assisting groups where His word was revealed in some measure. As I gave my thoughts on the matter I would also say it was the individuals among them who did the heavy lifting and maintained the integrity of His words that had God’s help. It’s very interesting how each group seemed to be targeted in many different ways as well. I can’t begin to fully appreciate what they went through but I do know that there must be many more who “know” these things and not all were or are under the auspices of the WTO although they are the main ones, imo. I still think the org will be sorted out but…so will the rest of humanity. How that unfolds may be surprising. I don’t know for certain but I am hopeful “we” ( I mean the loosely, lol) will be joined.

            • Beverly kenyon

              ALL Christian organisations will be sorted out Raven and that was a great point about it was most probably ‘individuals’ that did the heavy lifting as our Faith is an individual thing.

            • The Raven

              I’m not expecting a big number to come out of Christendom to be honest. But I do expect that as the beast ascends and the final king rules this will not be in an instant. It will take some time. As people begin to see what’s happening and they refuse to bend to that king there appears to be some room. We do know that spirit will be poured out on sons and daughters and they and those called will make a final witness. What would that be for if everyone’s already divided into two camps, I wonder? Wouldn’t they be preaching to the choir at that point? He states, ” and they will have to know that I am Jehovah”. The kingdom of the beast under Satan’s control and the kingdom of Christ will rule at the same time for a while. That IMO implies that not only will JWs be faced with a decision but ALL of humanity will too based on what they will know then. Otherwise the test may not be fair. I am not so certain that there aren’t at least a few among the world who are not to be found among the wto. Since it won’t exist anymore then, they too will be among babylon the great and subject to the same judgement as the rest of the world if the choose badly. Does this mean that folks from among the world who haven’t bowed to the beast will all choose badly as well? I don’t think so. My bottom line as I see it now through a glass darkly is Jehovah plainly stated he will make man as rare as the gold of Ophir. There will not be many even if Christendom is taken into consideration. Since none of us can say for certain how all of this will shake out I am inclined to have hope that we are joined and I cannot say with any certainty that the only ones who will survive and choose wisely will be Jws as are known “at this time”.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hey Raven, to pick up on your point about you can’t with certainty say that JW’s will be the only ones saved and that’s true but first read 1Cor 2:9 then please go on to read Romans Chapter 11 and you’ll be very surprised and amazed.

            • The Raven

              I’m familiar with it. Thanks Bev. I still think they are “first in line” for what they’ve done but…there is yet much to be revealed.

            • Beverly kenyon

              They are the natural branches and God hasn’t forgotten his promise to Abraham and aren’t Jews also looking forward to the appearance of the Messiah, Gentiles have been grafted into the Natural branches so you have to read the whole of Romans 11 with fresh eyes regarding the natural Jews and I’m assuming you mean by being ‘first in line’ you mean in the firing line, well Romans 11 is most certainly not inferring that at all.

            • The Raven

              Not the Jews of today or anyone else of any particular ethnicity or race since they do not accept Christ. That invitation extended to all humanity since Christ came. I don’t think there is any special allowance or consideration made for them. In fact many Zionist Christians say those things. Jehovah promised the Jews of old that when the new kingdom arrived they would stand up for their lot as will others from ancient times. Moses was also promised a share and he will get his. As far as I know the Jews of today will be judged as will any others.

            • Richard Long

              Wasn’t the lineage of Jacob obliterated by the Romans? That turban was removed by their rejection of Christ.. The Jews of today are most certainly not the Israelites of first century Judea, but rather ANOTHER group of scam artists playing the long con.

            • The Raven

              That’s true. They hate Christ. They will not mention the name of God or even write it: g-d.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Romans 11 says different about them accepting the Christ in the future as according to Chapter 11 the Jews are the Natural branches and the Jews will experience the revelation of Christ in the days to come and will turn in droves to Jesus as they are the ‘Natural Branches’ they will be grafted in easily and will probably produce ‘fruit’ very quickly. Verses 17-24. I was in awe reading Romans 11 at the immense love and forgiveness of God and that’s why I suggested you reading 1Cor2:9.

            • Daisy

              How do you graft? You make a cut in the side (of the stock)….you pierce the side of the cut….after grafting you wrap it in linen and the linen wrap shields it , in the dark for three days. (teary after that)

              Even if the branch is discarded, laid aside for many years, it can still be grafted back in and the grafted in branch will eventually produce the same fruit as the rest of the tree and no other fruit than the fruit from the tree is produced by the grafted branch.
              Romans 11:17 and if some of branches were broken off and you being a wild olive tree were grafted in among them and with them you partake of the Root and fatness of the olive tree.

              You say the ‘natural branches’ are the Jews and ‘God hasn’t forgotten his promise to Abraham’and that got me digging…gen 12:3…I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you and in YOU all the nations of the earth shall be MIXED. The Hebrew word we know is usually translated as “blessed” but the word “ve’nivrechu” appears only three times, in 12:3, 18:18: and 28:14 of genesis and all three times it speaks of how Abraham will affect the nations of the earth. This word can mean “mixed” or “grafted” or “mingled”. This is Jehovah saying HOW he would “bless” the nations. He would do it via “grafting” or “mixing ” of his seed into all nations and is important when one understands the greater plan of Jehovah to fulfill His promise to Abraham and his descendants to, yes, certainly “bless ” the nations but also “how” He would do that blessing: via “grafting ” or “mixing” or “mingling” of his seed unto the nations.

              So has God rejected and deserted his people the Jews? Oh no, not at all. Remember that I myself am a Jew, a descendent of Abraham and a member of Benjamin’s family (rom 11:1) No, God has not discarded his own people who he chose from the very beginning (v.2) Not all Jews have turned away from God (v.5) a few have -(v.7)
              But, does this mean that God has rejected his Jewish people FOREVER. Of course not! His purpose was to make his salvation available to the Gentiles, and then the Jews would be jealous and begin to want Gods salvation for themselves (v11) Now if the whole world became rich as to the offer of God’s salvation when the Jews stumbled over it and turned it down think how much greater a blessing the world will share in later on when the Jews too come to Christ (v 12) How wonderful it will be when they become Christians (v 15) Yet the Jews are still beloved of God because of his promise to Abraham Isaac and jacob. For God’s gifts and his call can NEVER be withdrawn; He will never go back on his promise (v 28) And now the Jews are the rebels but, some day they too will share in God’s mercy towards you (v 32) Oh what a wonderful God we have!

              We know that branches are often time symbolic of people in scripture so Jehovah punished His people by pruning the tree almost bare; devoid of branches as a PUNISHMENT to make them JEALOUS…He didn’t abandon Israel for the new gentile churches. (Amos 3:2 You Israel only have i chosen among all the families of the earth, therefore I will PUNISH you for all your iniquities.)

              So the Root, being Christ and regardless of what type of branch we are, if not connected to the Root of that tree which is MESSIAH, we wither and die.

            • Richard Long

              In depth and with authority!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Daisy, this post is for me, totally Brilliant!! I cannot emphasise it enough and will be reading it twice. Amazing and I’m filled with total Joy at the Love of the Heavenly Father as he hasn’t forgotten the people he chose out of all the nations and yes it it goes all the back to that verse in Genesis you cited. Gen 12:3. And it was fascinating to read about the grafting process which reminds me of Jesus when he was pierced in his side and was wrapped in linen and was in the ground for three days, similarities are so amazing! And every true Christian should be asking themselves, am I connected to the Root, the Christ because if we aren’t then we will wither and die as its his Name, a witness to the Christ that brings Savation. Rev19:10. I love that bit about causing the natural Jews to feel Jealous and how he will punish them but will reconcile them back to him. Romans 11 has got be such a revealing and exciting piece of scripture and you did an amazing job of coherently explaining it! ????⭐️

            • Daisy d

              To add to your joy…google whyorganic.wordpress.com.
              Hebrew: Barak means “mixed/mixing”
              That’s where I got info from…made sense to me.
              Happy digging and may Jehovah bless your search for the Truth (Jesus) the Way and the Life 😀

            • Beverly kenyon

              Thank you for link and I will go digging. Brilliant!

            • The Raven

              As to the firing line…well, there’s two ways of looking at that and I’d say both are correct. First in line as a figure of speech for people who know the basic truths and stand to become God’s people and first in line for the firing line meaning judgement begins with His house first.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Well, it depends what you mean by his ‘House’ because if it’s what I think you mean well that where we part company on that point.

            • Richard Long

              Beverly, you are so thoroughly deprogrammed its inspiring!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Because I’m a Christian, a witness to the Christ and PROUD to be just tying those words Richard I’m tearing up here….but with joy!

            • Daisy d

              No celebrating Christmas, Easter, Halloween and mother’s day Beverly, there’s a dear…advise from Daisy

            • Beverly kenyon

              Oh, no Daisy, what’s good for Job & his Sons…….So come 9/11, that’s my birthday and I’m gonna party like its my birthday, sorry had to get that in, lol, the bourbon is coming out, yeah Raven I’m partial to a JD & coke or two and I might really go crazy and have a cig! Just making up for all those lost birthdays I never celebrated because I handed over my mind and free will to an organisation. Just kidding about the smoke (cig) but not about the JD & coke. ??

            • The Raven

              Birthdays were mainly for the kids. Not usually the adults in the family. I’ve had that bottle ( Gentleman Jack) for a year and it’s still over half full. I also have some other liquors much older than that and just take a shot once in a while after coming in from a cold wet, miserable day or on a special occasion. My brother and friends raid the cabinet every so often but I don’t mind since I don’t drink that often. Now I do have some shine coming from Kentucky in a few weeks. Brother took his girlfriend up to a big family reunion there and they bring me a pint in a mason jar every two years. My late sister in law showed me how to fix her Alabama family version of a hot toddy for colds and flu with shine. It will make you sweat out whatever ails you and by morning, you’re good to go. As far as cigs go, I only roll one when I want it and step outside to smoke. I don’t buy packs, but if I had to guess I’d say a pack (20 cigs) would last me over a month sometimes longer. That’s the extent of my vices. Well.. besides coffee and tea.

            • Beverly kenyon

              It’s lovely to read of your family life a Raven, you sound a proper family which is lovely. It’s good to have a tipple every so often as it clears out the arteries, gives it a good workout and it looks like you’re a lightweight when it comes to cigs. Everything in moderation without ‘caning’ it! I like the sound of that Alabama hot toddy! Wow, ‘shine’…I like that word to describe your bourbon….in a mason jar, now that’s the real deal!

            • The Raven

              Several doctors I went to for yearly physicals suggested I drink a little wine in the evenings to keep things toned as it has many benefits but I can’t handle the headaches from it. It’s odd because both my parents drank a glass every night. The shine is moonshine and it really is for medicinal purposes. It will kill any bugs or crud floating around especially in the cold months. But I do have to hide it or it will be gone after I get invaded by friends and family for bbqs or just a whatever bash. The hot toddy is a strong cup of brewed tea, hot with grated orange, cinnamon, clove and a pinch of nutmeg or mace. A shot glass full of moonshine is lowered into the cup and allowed to sit and you sip it til it’s gone. It goes down smooth but a few seconds later…whew! Kicks like a mule!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yeah, wine has sulphate in it and can give different people headaches, some can’t cope with red and some are suited to white. What’s a crud? Over here in Manchester we use that word as an insult and unfortunately I know a few ‘cruds’! Not surprised you have to hide your shine as it sounds like the real 100% pure Alabama deal! Bet that’s an experience! My version of a hot toddy is hot water, quality honey, a blast of rum or brandy, whisky, slices of lemon and a dissolved paracetamol. Drink that and it knocks you out for the night. It’s like winter here and wet and soggy, really miserable, the Great British Summer so everyone is riddled with colds and mysterious viruses so I’ll be recommending your hot toddy recipe as it sounds delicious with all those spices. Have you patented your hot toddy recipe Raven? Lol.

            • The Raven

              The crud is any mysterious upper respiratory infection that seems to attack overnight and makes you feel like, well…crap. lol

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hey Daisy, you know I was kidding about celebrating my birthday right?! Lol. Actually on a serious note, I’ve always thought why would anyone in their right mind celebrate getting old and one year nearer to death?! Didn’t make sense to me so it was no hardship for me to stop doing that nonsense but if others want to then that’s their choice and I wouldn’t judge. But I do like a couple of JD & coke. Lol.

            • Daisy d

              Hahahahaha! Wish I was! I still don’t celebrate my birthday, but I know a man and his 10 children who did. Job 1:4

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Triple “POW”……….

            • Bklyn Kevin

              It’s important to take note that Jesus never celebrated his birthday nor did the apostles so I’m inclined not to celebrate either.

              Nowhere in the bible is a record of Jesus’ celebrating his birthday and the same goes for the apostles.

            • Daisy d

              As always, note taken Bklyn, thank you. But nowhere in the bible is a record of Jesus laughing, and the same goes for the apostles but don’t tell anyone that I laugh! They’ll never find out!

              Whether brothers do or don’t, I feel is not something to take offence over (not you) as its a Bible non issue. And as for “elevating” a person on the special day well we could, if we wanted follow the example of the GB who do just that .THEY elevate themselves – in Christ’s place – in fact. Love from Daisy

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Yes it is a gray area for sure And I suppose Jesus will sort it out when he comes.
              P.S. good to see you in high spirits and love you too sister.

            • The Raven

              Yep, Bev we do. But…As Kevin explained that does not preclude others joining during the end.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              More food for thought.
              It appears at the end of the day faith was the most important factor regardless of her being a Phoe·niʹcianth or one of lost sheep of the house of Israel.

              Leaving there, Jesus now went into the region of Tyre and Siʹdon. And look! a Phoe·niʹcian woman from that region came and cried out: “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David. My daughter is cruelly demon possessed.” But he did not say a word in answer to her. So his disciples came and began to urge him: “Send her away, because she keeps crying out after us.” He answered: “I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But the woman came and did obeisance* to him, saying: “Lord, help me!” In answer he said: “It is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to the little dogs.” She said: “Yes, Lord, but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters.
              Then Jesus replied to her: “O woman, great is your faith; let it happen to you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed from that hour on.Matthew
              15:21-28
              .https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/15/#v40015021

            • The Raven

              Do you think jws are standing in the position to be considered as God’s people? Do you believe that Christendom will be also?

              I’ll reiterate; I think the jws are in a position to be God’s people more so than any others are. I also think they may be joined by others who have been exposed to the basic truths or on the fringes as more is revealed. But I do not see a large number from Christendom at all.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              1 Do you think jws are standing in the position to be considered as God’s people? Absolutely but first they must be refined like silver and gold as the scriptures say.

              2 Do you believe that Christendom will be also?
              Absolutely not because they are anti Christ, how so? because they are no better than the Muslim community who believe Jesus was a prophet yet they reject Jesus as being the son of GOD so too although Christendom believes in Jesus but they reject Jesus as the only begotten son of GOD with their Trinity doctrine .

              Also please keep in mind Jehovah will show mercy upon whom he chooses .
              Excerpt:
              Not all of Jesus’ original disciples were literal footstep followers, like the apostles or the extended entourage of disciples, like the 70 whom Jesus dispatched to preach the Kingdom. Unlike the apostles who simply dropped everything and literally followed Jesus in his ministry, Jesus had secret disciples, who, because of their circumstance were afraid to reveal themselves as disciples.
              show mercy.
              Jesus’ Secret Disciples. Read more.
              https://e-watchman.com/jesus-secret-disciples/

            • The Raven

              I have been making the argument just about all day that God’s people are not a done deal…YET. They may very well be joined but…they would at least have to know what the basic truth is. In this I also agree. That does not seem to be the issue here. I think you know what is. The fact that some have been arguing for the inclusion of people who are like you mentioned. I’m trying to nail this down to a reasonable level of understanding here for myself. I know about those shown mercy but they had faith. But how can the folks who deny the Christ was the son of God and Jehovah as well have faith enough to be saved? I don’t think that’s reasonable as you stated and I think that’s what the bottom line here is.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Obviously the Phoenician woman had faith in Jesus where’s those who do not will not have any hope.

              This particular case faith was standing at the forefront, in other words the woman was obviously ignorant but yet she had faith in the ransom Sacrifice which made all the difference.

              “I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But the woman came and did obeisance* to him, saying: “Lord, help me!” In answer he said: “It is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to the little dogs.” She said: “Yes, Lord, but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters.
              Then Jesus replied to her: “O woman, great is your faith; let it happen to you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed from that hour on.Matthew
              15:21-28
              .https://www.jw.org/en/publications/

            • The Raven

              Well, then the same argument would apply for those who have faith in Christ alone as well. That would include even members of most of Christendom even though they are ignorant of the proper arrangements they too view Christ as their savior. If that’s the case, the JWs cannot say they alone are God’s people, then can they? Is that correct or am I way off base here? I truly want to know.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Jehovah’s witnesses alone are God’s people without a doubt due to the fact that they preach and teach not only the basic truth but they also preach and teach that Jesus is the only begotten son of GOD where most religions teach otherwise.
              What I’m trying to say is that there are other people in other religions who are just plain ignorant / unknowledgeable due to what ever circumstances and that they don’t know any better but will be giving the chance to except Jehovah’s incoming kingdom and the truth and if they reject it then there is no hope for them and that would include any and all who don’t recognize Jehovah’s sovereignty and if they do adhere to the eighth kings sovereignty they will for sure received the mark of the wild beast and sure internal death.

              All so please read> Search results for: vast mixed company.

              https://e-watchman.com/?s=+vast+mixed+company

            • Richard Long

              Is this not why the Revelation of the sons of God is expected to be an unmistakable event? Not ONE living soul, regardless of social status or education level or intelligence quotient will be able to honestly say “Uh, gimme another chance…. I didn’t know I was rejecting Christ!”

            • Bklyn Kevin

              But they will surely try to make an excuse and then Jesus will say” Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name? And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

              “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Read more>https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/7/#v40007022

            • The Raven

              Quote, Kevin:
              “What I’m trying to say is that there are other people in other religions who are just plain ignorant / unknowledgeable due to what ever circumstances and that they don’t know any better but will be giving the chance to except Jehovah’s incoming kingdom and the truth…”

              FINALLY! You see where I was going with this? Sorry to put you on the spot but I know you’re capable and knowledgeable. I wanted to see the conditions here since you posted that comment about the Phoenician. Several here make the argument for Christendom but…the line seems to be the basic truths and Jehovah’s name. Yes… He shows mercy to who He pleases, I agree. There are also other examples of this. Then what I stated at FIRST is correct about them (JWs) being in the favorable ( how to describe a slave about to be beaten?) position and there will be other individuals possibly from Christendom or maybe even others who accept His kingdom. I understand that there is time within the initial events of the end for folks to make a choice but what was NOT clear was WHO that might be. Looking at some of the commentary it appeared that ONLY JWs would be tested. I had a hard time with that and I did not believe that to be correct. That would mean virtually everyone here is chopped liver! Hence my confusion with this. Looks like I part ways with several here since I still see it as you do but with a better understanding and a renewed view to hope for others which means a lot to me. Thank you, man!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.
              For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.
              For the scripture says: “No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him.
              For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved. However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him?
              How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?
              Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”
              Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.Matthew 28: 19-20.
              Read more> Romans 10: 9-15.
              https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/romans/10/#v45010009

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Raven said “Looking at some of the commentary it appeared that ONLY JWs would be tested. [?]

              The hour of test, which is to come upon the “entire inhabited earth”, to put to the test those dwelling on the earth.
              Revelation to John
              3:10.

              It puts under compulsion “all people”—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead.
              Revelation to John 16.13:

            • The Raven

              That’s how I see it. I think some of the things I have read here made it look like this is a very narrow scope of consideration but that’s because Robert does speak to the condition of the wto and witnesses mainly. It is good to know that Jehovah considers a lot more than that. In fact…everything and everyone. No one is assured of anything and we cannot hide. Thank you Kevin.

            • Richard Long

              It might more rightly be fair to say that evidently there was at some point a higher wheat to weeds ratio among the Witnesses than elsewhere. This higher concentration of invited ones was evidently used concurrentlyby God to get some really momentous things done in preparation for the parousia AND by his Enemy to set a fatal trap for the holy ones. JW’s, IMO, are “Jehovah’s People” like the Babylonians were “My Servant” as they decimated Ancient Israel. THE “special people for Jehovah’s possession” – Spiritual Israel – to be unmistakenly identified during the parousia and not before.

            • The Raven

              Higher wheat to weed? Probably but looks like everybody’s got “issues” they’re going to have to deal with. Some more than others. If we are found worthy of a survivable beating I’d say we did well.

            • Daisy d

              And they will have to know that I am Yod-Hey-Waw-Hey…Yahuwah…and when He pronounces His name the whole UNIVERSE will shudder.

            • Beverly kenyon

              ? You’re on fire Daisy and every word you wrote is true, except the pious bit….couldn’t see you in a ‘wimple’ Revelation 22:15. Revelation 21:27. And when the Apostles asked Jesus to whom shall we go, John6:68, well the answer is simple to understand like the books of the Gospels….it was to Him of course, not a corporate organisation run by men having their members distribute their literature that push THEIR agenda.

            • Daisy

              The only way I’m “on fire” is that the poison in my body from chemotherapy and radiotherapy will remain as long as I live?Won’t need the c.h on most of winter!
              High on a hill is a lonely goatherd ladle yodel ladle yodel lay ee oh.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Central heating…that’s funny. Lol.

            • thats cause they were his witnesses then too. there just wasnt a brand name

            • Every commercial jet flying in the atmosphere above 26,000ft is likely to produce a vapor trail. Anywhere on the planet where jets fly you will see vapor trails. They can’t not produce them!

              Don’t be sick because of that. There are so many other reasons to be sick other than jet exhaust way up high.

            • Richard Long

              Cathii, I personally believe there actually is something going on with chem-trails, although I can’t say what, and certainly saw no fault in your original comment. I never saw any disparagement toward our host in any of the commentary and am sorry to have given any impression of disapproval. If we can’t just plop down and say what’s on our mind here, to each other, then we are truly beyond help. If you say they are making your community sick, I believe you. I’m sorry for using that particular thread as an example of how I feel that we are sometimes wearisome to Robert. It just feels like we have been blessed with the hospitality of DaVinci’s home and end up involving him in debates like “Boxers or Briefs” or “Yankees or Mets”. Please forgive me for any of my commentary that was hurtful to you.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Jesus praises his Father for favoring the humble.https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/11/#v40011025

              At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.
              Matthew 11: 25.

  • Danny

    “I will be very surpriced if Armageddon doesnt come before the 40 years after 1975 end”. What happend with that Robert? lol

    • Burt Reynolds

      Jehovah is late. I’m sure Jehovah has other things to attend to so you need to give him a break. ‘In the final days, many will roam the earth wondering when Harmageddon will arrive, and all the evidence will point to a time in general but no one will be right. And some will be certain, and others not so certain but all will be right about general timing because the word has spoken. Therefore do not pop out for an icecream, or find yourself at the cinema. Do not stay late at work, and if you are fixing your chimney, do not come down for lunch, for you know not whence Jehovah has set his alarm clock. Beware of special offers at the store lest they distract you and and it’s not a good idea to spend time mulling over the past because tomorrow has not arrived and suddenly tomorrow is upon you. And it came to pass that everyone waited because there was free beer tomorrow and so they never hoped for a beer today. Thus many lost all hope, but a few found out that the could taste a little beer today and thus hope was kept alive, even though they were not correct, but knew beer was coming tomorrow and would indeed be free.’ ( Book of Burt. Letter to the Exactitonians. Ch6. V334).

    • Beverly kenyon

      I remember reading that article Danny and I found it fascinating stuff, it was brilliant and was a great reminder of how scarily exciting it is to be living in these last days and to find comfort in the complete writings of the Bible. Brother King with that article, peaked my interest in that number, Forty, so set about trying to find out the significance of that number and found out it was used literally or meant a time of testing. Matt4:1-3. Joshua 5:6. Deut2:7. Exodus34:27,28. So for me, I found out something new regarding that number and at the end of the day, Armageddon is coming…one way or another! Heb10:37. Habakkuk 2:3.

      • Richard Long

        And I think Robert, along with all of us, may have found ourselves ensnared in the significance, if any exists, of the year 1975. But then we must wait both 3 1/2 years and 7 years past October 1975 to be reasonably certain that 1975 bears no significance. Coincidentally, the Illuminati have set before us 2018 as the year we should expect a new global currency, so…..

        • Beverly kenyon

          I believe that is definitely on the cards along with ‘fire & fury’ as just announced by Trump…thats an unequal fight, like taking candy from a child…until their best friend China steps then it could turn out to be free for all….all the big players with their simmering hatred for each could all pile in. We had ‘shock & awe’ from the Bush administration now it’s ‘fire & fury’ from Trump who looks like he wants to make his mark. Feel so sorry for those North Korean people as they’ve been imprisoned, lied to and brutalised and brainwashed now they have to face ‘fire & fury! Horrific!

          • Richard Long

            Certainly no day to be proud to be an American!

            • The Raven

              Or a North Korean.

          • The Raven

            I wish that little idiot would stop launching missiles near Japan. And China isn’t helping by supporting him, but recently even they are tired of his antics. I think they understand very well that Kim is a loose cannon and the only way he can hold power is to make sure the “enemy” stays well within focus. Maybe they will step in and be the voice of reason here and slap Kim back down. The US isn’t going to sit idly by while he plays a dangerous game of brinkmanship with a superpower. He has turned out to be much worse than his father was. I feel very sorry for the folks there as well. This may be more than Kim had bargained for if he persists. It’s no secret that he executes anyone he even thinks might not be loyal to him in very brutal ways. Film smuggled out of N. Korea shows just how bad things are. Part of me wants to see this mess resolved peacefully. Part of me also wants that nasty little tyrant gone and those people freed from that miserable situation. But…we may have to wait for the kingdom for that. SMH.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Raven, sorry for late reply but I had to get my zzzz’s as it was late here last night. You won’t get an intelligent conversation from me regarding politics…you’re better off talking to ShaSha, Daisy, Huldah about such things as they’re clued up on that subject but yeah, you’re right about him being a little idiot thinking he can take on a superpower with his homemade toy rockets even though it’s reported that he has a miniature nuclear warhead he can stick on top of one of those rockets he keeps test firing and winding up Trump and I’ve just seen on the news that the markets are now reacting to the tensions in that region so the talk of ‘fire & fury’ is having a knock on effect. I would love the ‘walls’ of that country to fall down to ‘free’ those captive people and for that little despot to be kicked into oblivion but it looks like it’s going to take war for that to happen and you know who suffers the most for that…the people. I haven’t watched that link you’ve provided but I will as soon as I’ve stopped my running around as I want to really understand that awful situation that might kick start WW3. Thanks for that.

            • The Raven

              Sure Bev. It’s a fine mess that’s for certain.

            • yeah the poor people of N.K. need to flee or tell their man-god to chillout, go play some b-ball and looz some weight but the other nations are provoking them as well not to mention wicked spirits behind the scene. be a good idea to pray for them

            • Beverly kenyon

              True DA…man God, I like that and the point about wicked spirits running the show…true.

  • Sorry for posting this here, it doesn’t match the topic, but I just had to share this.

    I was at the Kingdom Hall yesterday for the Sunday Watchtower meeting, when something I read in the Watchtower study magazine almost made me burst out laughing.

    Watchtower Study magazine June 2017, (July 31-August 27, 2017), page 6, paragraph 8

    Talking about what it means by a Christian woman being kept safe through child-bearing

    “… Rather, it refers to the fact that a woman’s having children to tend to, along with the other aspects of caring for a household, may keep her from falling into a pattern of gossiping and meddling in other people’s affairs.”

    I was so shocked that I wrote in the margin of the page, “WHAT?!”

    So, people. If any Christian woman you know has a tendency to gossip or meddle in other people’s affairs, the answer is for her to bear children. >.<

    • Daisy

      Thanks for sharing.
      Check out youtube John Cedars “Sexist Watchtower Quote”?
      Enjoy the lol!

      • Hi. As a male unbaptised publisher I still feel uncomfortable with how sexist the Watchtower organisation can be. They seem to teach that a woman’s place is in the home, raising the kids, cooking, baking and looking after the house and husband. Whereas the husband’s role seems to be the breadwinner. I’m curious to how the Watchtower views a married JW couple where the husband stays home and cooks, bakes, cleans, cares for kids, and the wife goes out to work.

        • Keep in mind the WT was merely commenting on the Scripture. Paul is the one who wrote that women would be safeguarded through child bearing. Human societies have functioned for thousands of years following the same basic pattern. It has only been in the last few decades that women have entered the work force in great numbers.

          • Daisy

            Agreed. The Wt IS written by men; and the idea behind quoting Paul is to undermine and subjugate women, as usual.
            From J Rutherford’s time many females forfeited their God-given right to bear children and died as spinsters due to the publications “only commenting” on Paul’s words of staying celibate , as he was, quoting out of context as they do, when he was advising against sexual immorality, and not going against God’s command to marry and create a family.
            And even today, in my former kh, there were three married women who were bitterly regretting the absence of grandchildren in their lives because their abusive Elder husbands dominated the decision to remain childless.
            And imo Jws student’s incredulous reaction was perfectly natural as the wt premise that childbearing was safeguarding a female from gossiping and meddling in other people’s affairs was nothing short of rubbish. After all, who could be more meddlesome than the Wt “society” rhetorical question. They are worse meddlers than the pope!
            So imo misogyny is still alive and thrives well, not only in human society, but inside the Wt society as well.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Genesis 3:16 springs to mind. So, single ladies along with those unable to bear children would be beyond saving?! Seriously!

            • Joseph Stephan

              The most under appreciated Individuals on the planet- inside and outside the organization. Women/Mothers

              https://youtu.be/KZHdSoBXkNk

              ?Show your lady’s some love fellas ?

            • Burt Reynolds

              That’s a great idea Joseph. I’ll buy my wife a potters wheel so that she can make all our utensils in the evening when she gets home from work. That will save money and leave more time for housework, and save time shopping for new cups and bowls.

            • Meh! You’re just trying to come across as a knight in shining armour. When really you think it’s us geezers that are the most under appreciated individuals on the plant ;-P

            • Burt Reynolds

              Absolutely. I hope you are grateful to hubby for giving you the time off away from your domestic chores to write your comment. I have sent my wife out to work to keep her busy and away from gossiping, though She has ordered me to actually get up and turn the oven on and bake a potato for her when she gets home. The nerve of the woman. Still, I suppose she aught to have a meal before starting on the housework and babysitting the grandchildren while I continue to command the household from my upper chamber.

            • Yes, whilst playing on your PS4 >.<

          • so basically the WT needs to do a better job getting the point across

            • Richard Long

              Or to stop commenting on that which is none of their business.

        • Daisy

          They might suggest that a house-husband has a smaller cranium than his wife? Or that he’s really homosexual lol 😉

        • Burt Reynolds

          I know what you mean old student, it is the talk of an isolated community viewing the world in an ideal situation, through biblical advice. It works ( the biblcal advice I mean). My mother was always there for me, home was always secure, our huge home did not ruin the family through an unmanageable mortgage and my father had a secure job. ( our home cost£100 back in the 1940s). The watchtower is a patriarchal community, proclaiming man the head of the household and the woman subjugated. What has developed from this situation is the unrestrained view that woman are not equal to man, and it is promulgated through the watchtower society that has lost its balance. The truth is that There is one oarsman, one steersman and one is incomplete without the other. But as the bible says, the man leads. There is always a leader, but not a blind bully. Men gain watchtower approval by being the head of the household, his wife being a visible ‘help-mate’ and the children suitably controlled, subservient, uneducated, obedient model witnesses.

          The mistake the watchtower makes is very debasing for women and shoves them into a ‘less than’ role that debases their value in some aspects. They make the assumption that unless a woman is properly employed in a domestic role, that she will resort to idleness, led by impure thoughts and destined to be out of control, spreading rumours and discontent. It is the watchtower’s natural assumption that a woman will turn to such behaviour naturally, being too feeble minded to enjoy time in a productive course of action, that is so wrong. The watchtower is of the mindset that if someone is not preaching and studying, cleaning, providing, cooking, that she will turn to bad. That is the problem, not the bible. Society was different then and the advice not only good, but based on natural tendency that people were free to choose. Women without children were seen as ‘barren’, a slur on their womanhood……and still are, even in modern times. Our world society is so contradictory it beggars belief.

          The other issue that the watchtower fails on is that the human perception is made up of two parts. One carried in the personality of the woman, the other in the personality of man. It is a well recognised fact that we also carry aspects of the opposite sex within us, and that allows us insight into the others thinking…..less so in men, and that is why women are so attractive and mysterious. Men tend to be more obvious and plain in their thinking but women are the seat of the human expression of love. But the point being that when the two minds unite you have balanced reasoning. One might wonder if we would struggle under the full comprehension of the United human mind of both sexes. An example of watchtower thinking: a brother decided he needed a new car for ministry. He sold his house, moved his family back to his parents house and bought himself his car. But by the elders, he was approved of as he had made a ‘huge sacrifice’ for Jehovah by whittling down his responsibilities….working and keeping a home, to go out more on the ministry. No one mentioned the burden on his poor widowed mother or the equally valuable biblical advice to leave his parents and cling to his wife!

          As always, the watchtower is right but wrong. Rather than thinking women automatically turn to gossiping if not pregnant and burdened with a full day….no weekends off….ever….or considering if the wages incoming can support a child, they should be supporting women in a positive way to adapt and continue the struggle to remain faithful to Jehovah. By dint of omission, they accuse all post menopausal women of being idle gossipers.

          The object lesson here is to not be distracted by the imbalance in the watchtower, but to keep sifting it for the truth, with the insight that you have shown here. I should add that there is a whole lot more to this matter and that I unreservedly retract all that I say in the face of any rebuttal from the sisters here and do ask their forgiveness…..after they have made supper for their husbands of course!

          • The Raven

            I had no idea they were that bad. I saw a few things that bugged me in the short time I studied with them but I assumed it was just a bit of male chauvinism or some of them were jackasses. They took a lot of things to the extreme, it seems. I found many of the women to be very intelligent and wise in the discussions I’ve had with them. What always got me about their views was how they pushed twelve year old boys forward to preach but sidelined much older sisters in discussions. I thought that was really strange.
            I still don’t understand how they think about certain matters. Probably never will.

            • Richard Long

              Hope you never have to!

            • Burt Reynolds

              I am not suggesting I am correct by any means, or that I am some sort of psychologist ( though my daughter is qualified), but one of the touchstones for me in determining what is suspect in the watchtower, has been to extrapolate human behaviour from the Jehovah’s word. It clarifies not only the teaching, but the motive, intent and degree of insight. If this site is compared against the watchtower, one can see the near total independence of the truth, from the one speaking it. If you were to examine the watchtower on the same point….take for example the position of women in the congregation and their role ( not ‘place’ ; their contribution in Jehovah’s terms are part of and different, not less than ), the adultery of motive and control becomes obvious to the critical thinker. Some may say that Robert’s opinion is written into his text, as with the recent discussion over the square mile in London, but this is hardly the case. There is a subtle difference between suggestion and teaching. We can all make mistakes, but suggestion offers evidence, and teaching, when one is not allowed to question, presents only fact in the motive of the teacher. Does this site teach with certainty, as did Jesus who was referred to as ‘Teacher’? How could it? On whose authority?

              Not in my opinion. The difference is that it allows the bible to reveal itself to us. Is it not true that when we read from here, the scales fall away from the eyes; that biblical continuity is revealed, that substance comes to the fore; that what is said does not depend on our belief or acceptance to justify itself? The watchtower imposes belief does it not, using the herd mentality to control and ‘unify’ ( the ‘oneness’ ) and the threat of invoking the watchtower’s displeasure framed in the accusation that it is Jehovah’s displeasure? Whereas the truth of the bible is like a pearl in the field, in that you recognise this mud covered globe, a speck, a grain in the earth, and pick it up, or just leave it there or pay dearly to own it. The choice, the insight remains with us, and in truth, is not applied to us. We are free to take it or not.

              True, Robert may add the feathers of his opinion, but we all do, but that opinion, though it may cause reflection to some in their thinking, which is natural and good if bible based, does not take away their reasoning or chain them to it. What it does do, is assist in lending an assured expectation and it is that which has the ring of truth to it. If the square mile was proved wrong tomorrow, who would want to leave because of it? Not me. All the evidence points to it, the reasoning is sound, but if Jehovah suddenly lifted the veil on it, is our faith crushed? Is London an integral part of faith? No! London is not an assured expectation, Jehovah is. The watchtower need belief in themselves and to maintain that, they need people to believe what they say is from Jehovah and punish anyone who doubts them. And they do this by subjugation, threats, and belittling questioners and children, new ones and those seeking. And the entire half of the congregation….women, and those men striving to grow, they keep them hooked by telling them to keep ‘growing in maturity’ ….ergo ‘obedience’ to the watchtower and when finally enslaved, elect them as a leader, to carry on the processes if enslavement. Would that it were just male chauvinism, but it is not. That can be rectified by a good slap across the face. What the watchtower exerts, is largely satanic control. The bible offers the waters of life freely and you will find that it is offered in equality to all and that if there is any subservience involved, it is to Jehovah alone. Equal Respect to each role within that order, is just that…equal.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I like to view robers site as Jehovah’s city gates were things can be sorted out and discerned.

              What is the significance of a city gate in the Bible?”
              Excerpt:
              Besides being part of a city’s protection against invaders, city gates were places of central activity in biblical times. It was at the city gates that important business transactions were made, court was convened, and public announcements were heralded. Accordingly, it is natural that the Bible frequently speaks of “sitting in the gate” or of the activities that took place at the gate. In Proverbs 1, wisdom is personified: “At the head of the noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech” (verse 21). To spread her words to the maximum number of people, Wisdom took to the gates.

              The first mention of a city gate is found in Genesis 19:1. It was at the gate of Sodom that Abraham’s nephew, Lot, greeted the angelic visitors to his city. Lot was there with other leading men of the city, either discussing the day’s issues or engaging in important civic business.

              In the Law of Moses, parents of a rebellious son were told to bring him to the city gate, where the elders would examine the evidence and pass judgment (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). This affirms that the city gate was central to community action.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Absolutely. That’s a good way of describing it. Yet why is this particular city gate provided? It’s not as though someone knocked a hole in the city wall and provided their personal gate. The truth cannot be owned. Why has Jehovah provided this wheel within the wheel for a fortunate few? I know that sounds dramatic, but why we are taken out of the lie and shown the truth seems to be a biblical anomily. I can find no scripture that refers to it, or indeed, if the should be a reference to it.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Think of the present foresight that you have received as a token of greater blessings to come.

              Psalm 147:2
              Jehovah is building Jerusalem;
              He gathers together the dispersed ones of Israel.

              Isaiah 56:8
              The Sovereign Lord Jehovah, who is gathering the dispersed ones of Israel, declares:
              “I will gather to him others besides those already gathered.”

              Ezekiel 34:16.
              The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage, and the weak I will strengthen; but the fat one and the strong one I will annihilate. I will feed that one with judgment.”

              Ezekiel 34:12 I will care for my sheep like a shepherd who has found his scattered sheep and is feeding them. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered in the day of clouds and thick gloom.

              Ezekiel 37:21
              Then tell them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “I will take the Israelites from among the nations where they have gone, and I will collect them together from every direction and bring them to their land.

              Zephaniah 3:19 Look! At that time I will act against all those oppressing you;
              And I will save the one limping,
              And I will gather together the dispersed.
              I will make them an object of praise and fame
              In all the land of their shame. Read more>

              https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/ezekiel/34/#v26034011-v26034031

            • The Raven

              Thanks for that very in depth explanation for what goes on with them. It helps me to understand the mindset and the vestiges of that conditioning even among those who have been gone for a while. I knew there was much more to it but at the time I busied myself with the nuts and bolts and did not look up very often to see what else was going on. The few times I did, I wasn’t impressed by their treatment of folks. I had assumed since I had found the truth that it would be reflected in their behavior towards each other but I quickly realized that not only are they just human and fallible sinners like me, they had a little something extra when it came to control.
              That spooked me. It still does and it’s one of the reasons I struggle to make sense of this. Everything man does he manages to make a complicated and frustrating mess of simply to exercise control.

  • Sharon

    this is why I find it astounding that all in every other religion assume a heavenly calling as a first thought instead of paradise

    • Brian

      Because in the first instance this is the “prize” of being a devoted follower of Jesus albeit only a relative small amount will be chosen in the end..

  • Leonard k
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