Until the Son of man arrives

//Until the Son of man arrives

QUESTION: Given the current and developing situation for the brothers and sisters in Russia, when can we expect the Watchtower organization’s leadership to admonish and encourage the friends in Russia to follow Jesus’ advice at Matthew 10:23?

“When they persecute you in one city, flee to another; for truly I say to you, you will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.” —Matthew 10:23

After the 12 apostles had been with Jesus for a short while he commissioned them to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel with the message that ‘the Kingdom of heavens has drawn near.’ However, Jesus specifically instructed them not to go to Samaria or the nations. Yet, he warned them they would be hated by all peoples. Clearly, Jesus’ commission of the apostles applies to those whom he would send forth to all the nations as a prelude to the actual coming of the Kingdom.

As for the situation in Russia, the Watchtower still has some time to appeal the ruling, so there is still a slight possibility that the liquidation order might be overturned. If not, though, I am confident that the long-suffering witnesses in Russia will carry on underground as they had before the communist system collapsed.

But Jesus’ words apply to all Christians, not just those in Russia. What did Jesus mean that they would not complete the circuit of of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives?

When Jesus said those words the apostles probably assumed that the Son of man’s arrival would be when he personally followed up on their circuit of the cites of Israel. They were imagining the Kingdom was going to instantly display itself. At the time they had no inkling that Jesus was going to leave the earth and return at a much later date.

We, know, though, the arrival of the Son of man relates to the second coming of Christ. That being the case, and since Jesus later commissioned all of his disciples to preach to all the nations, the “circuit of the cities of Israel” really takes on global proportions. What Jesus meant, then, is that the worldwide preaching will be interrupted by the unexpected arrival of the Son of man.

Presently, though, Jehovah’s Witnesses are laboring under the delusion that the arrival of the Son of man will immediately result in Armageddon. That is not the case. The Son of man arrives when he is given the Kingdom and commences the judgment. That truth is born out in the book of Daniel, the seventh chapter relating: “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.”

According to the same prophecy of Daniel, the coronation of the Son of man results in the beast humiliating three rival kings and waging war against the holy ones of the Supreme One for a time, times and half time.

The Watchtower’s interpretation is entirely fraudulent. The notion that the three horns that are plucked up by the 11th horn took place over a span of two centuries, beginning with the wreckage of the Spanish Armada in 1588, is absurd.

The emergence of the little horn coincides with the kingship being given to the Son of man. That is the point of the prophecy. It harmonizes with Revelation depicting the head of the beast receiving a fatal blow only to miraculously recover. The revival of the beast commences the judgment of the world, as humanity is faced with the ultimatum to accept the mark of the beast or be killed by the beast. However, receiving the mark of the beast means that the recipient is doomed to everlasting death. It is an irrevocable sentence. It is as though their names are blotted out of the book of life. That is what judgment day is all about.

Since it is also patently absurd that people began receiving the mark in 1922, as the Watchtower embarrassingly claims, it is demonstrably not true that the beast has received the fatal head wound; hence, the three horns have not been plucked out; nor has the Son of man received his kingdom. That being true, the harassing of the holy ones by the little horn has not begun either.

When the Son of man arrives the preaching of the good news abruptly ends. That is what Jesus meant by their not completing the circuit of the cities. What follows is a period of global persecution. That is why leading up to his remark about the arrival of the Son of man, Jesus said: “Look! I am sending you out as sheep among wolves; so prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves. Be on your guard against men, for they will hand you over to local courts and they will scourge you in their synagogues. And you will be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations. However, when they hand you over, do not become anxious about how or what you are to speak, for what you are to speak will be given you in that hour; for the ones speaking are not just you, but it is the spirit of your Father that speaks by you. Further, brother will hand brother over to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and will have them put to death. And you will be hated by all people on account of my name, but the one who has endured to the end will be saved.”

Jesus had earlier spoke of the more familiar witnessing work, when he said: “When you enter the house, greet the household. If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. Truly I say to you, it will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city.”

It is a popular notion among exJW’s that Jesus did not command his disciples to go door-to-door. Obviously that is not true. Otherwise, how would it be possible for the preachers to “greet the householder” or “enter the house” if they did not first go from house to house? But going from village-to-village, door-to-door, is contrasted with what follows; namely, being hauled before governors and kings and having brothers and family members handing Jesus’ disciples over to death. So, first comes the peaceful preaching of the good news. Then comes the persecution and the final witness.

Whereas, the preaching sponsored by the Watchtower in modern times has largely been undertaken under peaceful conditions, only periodically interrupted by war, revolutions and persecution, for the most part Jehovah’s Witnesses have enjoyed the legal protections offered by democratic governments —especially America, which prides itself on protecting freedom and liberty. As a result Jehovah’s Witnesses have thrived in America.

But that is all about to change. The United States is going to crash. Along with Great Britain, the United States of America is most assuredly the head of the beast that is going to get whacked. When it arises from the abyss it will no longer be the innocent lamb that protects the downtrodden. It will begin speaking as a dragon. In other words, Jehovah will no longer restrain the Devil. It will be the hour of the authority of darkness. 

Consequently, when the Son of man arrives the freedom that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has enjoyed under the present democratic system will be over. Jehovah’s Witnesses in the United States and Europe and around the world, will find themselves under ban and persecuted as never before. And most assuredly, when the chosen ones are made to stand before the governors and kings, they will not be represented by Watchtower lawyers. That is when the holy spirit will speak through them to the rulers of Satan’s doomed world.

2017-05-02T20:15:39+00:00 May 1st, 2017|Mailbag|132 Comments
  • Burt Reynolds

    So how do we ensure that we do not receive the mark of the beast? This theme (above) has been developing over the last few weeks and I have been wondering over the scriptures that say that those faithful will not be able to buy or sell etc etc. I would assume, that bartering will come under the same token also as to do so is still exchanging value for value, agreement for acceptance. I take it also, that this control is exerted over money and that the use of money is the holistic key. Again, this would include bartering on an ethical ground. So taken to its most basic, it means no food or water that we have to pay for, or, critically, belongs to the beast. Which will of course, include everything. And streams and food will belong to land owners, who in turn will serve the beast. This leaves fish and birds of the air and a dire, immediate need for a desalination plant, or rainwater collection system, because within a couple of weeks, no applicant witness will be left standing to give the final witness before judges and kings. Would someone provide a balance please?

    • Huldah

      I’m thinking on how it’s gonna play out but unsure at this point myself. There has been a lot of talk about something called Guaranteed Minimum Income. It’s like social security for everyone. I often wonder if the beast will guarantee everyone basic income if they sign on to his politcal agenda. Real witnesses won’t. In line with the economic collapse that is coming this is a natural course of events especially for a totalitarian government. Do remember that when bread was exhausted in Jerusalem Jehovah made sure Jeremiah had an allowance from the king. Remember too Elijah and the birds and manna of course. No luxury just neccessity. A huge difference from what we are accustomed to but sufficient. If Jejovah sees fit to feed and protect you, he can in ANY circumstance. His hand is not too short.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Yes that’s true Huldah….welcome to the site by the way…I am hoping ‘manna’ and water will be made available but it won’t come without a test. What I am wondering is how do we know what belongs to the beast? I suppose that we will have to be on the street and totally without so that we have to choose between short term life, permenant death, temporary death, long term anguish or miraculous survival…..excuse me while I reach for the Prozac!

        • Joseph of Aramathea

          No worries Mr Burt, you will be put to the test at first and your tummy might get a little rumbling. But once Jehovah knows your stand under trial, he will take you in and shelter you from the storm.
          After all didn’t he promises that a Great Crowd makes it though…..

        • Huldah

          Lol. Not a bad idea to stock up on something for my nerves. Can’t imagine I won’t need it!

          Already feel like I know you Burt. I appreciate all your sacrifices for Jehovah, as Jehovah does. What I have read of your story is compelling and validating for those of us that have made real sacrifices for the truth. I only stumbled onto this site a few weeks ago. It is comforting and enlightening to find other like minded ones.

          Speaking of truth and sacrifice, as I think more about your question, I agree with Robert that the test doesn’t matter. It’s like a pop quiz. A wise teacher will craft a pop quiz in such a way as to prove who has been paying attention in class and doing their work and who has not. It could take many forms, but it’s the substance that really matters. ( I have to admit it is intriguing to speculate, though.) Jehovah knows how to deliver the righteous but reserve the wicked for the day of judgment. My point is that a pattern of endurance and love for the truth ( the real truth) will safeguard our thinking ability and allow us not to be subject to the same delusion other witnesses may fall prey to because they have not trained with endurance and truth firmly in mind. To the Philadelphians, Jesus said ” because you kept my word about endurance, I will keep you from the hour of test” (or keep you from failing the test).

          I think Paul was the one who spoke of the delusion or “operation of error” that comes upon some true christians not because they did not perform the rituals of the faith, but because they did not accept the LOVE of the TRUTH that they may be saved. What was the result? “They got to believing the lie”. Maybe the lie they believe will culminate in the final test, the pop quiz as to whether we have been serving Jehovah or men, obeying truth or tradition. Those who are lulled into a complacent course of following tradition and delusion will not have some sort of epiphany in the time of test. These are the sort that Jehovah is weeding out with testing.

          Those that have had to put up a hard fight for the faith and are already wary of the delusion will have the heart condition that will carry them through any test. A brother who served in Vietnam told of how his boot camp commander had a slogan, “The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war”. It sure helps me to dwell on this when, in all my struggles, I look around the congregation and see so many who seem to always find a way to avoid the trials of us mere mortals. I really look forward to having my faith in Jehovah’s justice bolstered, when I see just how perfectly future tests prove the hearts of men.

          • Arvid Fløysand

            Very good comment …and it is also a pleasure to welcome you to this site Hulda 🙂

            • Huldah

              Thanks Arvid. Looking forward to getting to know you:)

          • Tabitha

            I like the way you think Huldah! Welcome to this site and I look forward to hearing more from you in the future 🙂

            • Huldah

              Thank you!
              I had a good laugh on the beans and chips comment. I guess becoming a Prepper is out of the question:

        • Tabitha

          You got me thinking about the manna Burt…. We also have a few supplies put away, just in case, but now I’m wondering if my excitement at opening my can of baked beans will turn to horror when I see that it is full of worms. The Israelites were told not to save any of the manna over for the next day to highlight their reliance on Jehovah’s provisions, should we act the same way? I guess we can only wait and see or more importantly get used to relying on Jehovah NOW, so that it comes more easily when the “chips” are down ( pun intended ).

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Tabitha, great to hear from you again. I must admit that when the gulf wars started I put by some rice, beans and water, and my non believing wife also is aware of the times we are living in and the basic ‘we are deep into the times of the end’ 50 year dirge of the watchtower. So, a typical discussion between us is; me…’ Do you not think we should put by some non perishable food? Look at the situation we have, and it’s only getting worse. Look at Korea?’……wife…..’you’ve been saying that For years. What about the gulf war….? Where are we going to put it all anyway? You had gallons of water in the roof for ages and we had to throw it away…’ However, the fact is that we are going to have to put our faith in Jehovah. Did the Israelites ask for, or depend on Jehovah for food while they had it in Egypt ? No. They only asked out of need, and received it then. And as you rightly point out, when they tried to store it out of lack of faith in continued help, Jehovah withdrew his blessing and turned it to worms. When the end comes and the persecution is here, will we still be in our homes? Maybe, but are the shops going to be full, and the starving going to let you pass with your smoked salmon, or even a handful of beans?
            The bible speaks of being prepared, but those scriptures that do not refer to spiritual food, point to salvation by another route, such as the Passover. We have a choice. Either we depend on Jehovah or we depend on ourselves. We have to face that test sooner or later. I would prefer to face it the sooner because once I do, I begin to prove my faith. If I have nothing to give, who will take it? If I have no reliance, ( on Jehovah), who will give me food? If I want Jehovah to save me, why shove him away? Why not draw him close in faith? When the Jews went into the concentration camps, they took all they had with them, but they never got to use it, either food or gold, clothing or water. The only thing that cannot be taken from us is faith. So faith us what I am putting by now for when the famine of faith starts. Jehovah is true to his word, therefore I have nothing to worry about. A bag of rice will not save me, neither will a cup of water.

            • Tabitha

              That’s funny Burt, I wonder how many witnesses are sitting on a goldmine? Have you seen what sells on eBay and how much people will pay for the weirdest things, even food items, which they consider “antique”, hey we’re all rich!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Did you know that there are still cans of beans from Scott’s Antarctic expedition in 1912, in the base camp they used there! Just think what a can of beans is worth that were made before ‘Christ’s invisible return’ in 1914!

      • Song of Hannah

        Welcome Huldah! And very much appreciate your words of faith here! We need these reminders!. ?

        • Huldah

          Thanks Hannah.
          It’s refreshing to get below the surface level on spiritual matters with others who are truly spiritually minded.

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi Burt, you may have already seen this article by Robert:

      https://e-watchman.com/666-mark-beast/

      I think when the time arrives for us to be tested we will hopefully have enough insight as to how to avoid the mark. It’s not going to be easy is it, especially if you have a divided family. Can you imagine the anguish of going without food especially if there are children involved. The more I think about it the more scared I become.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Thanks Jamie, I’ll read it. ?

    • Arvid Fløysand

      Hello Burt 🙂
      Very good question…I have been thinking about the same…When we read about the “mark” on the “forehead” and the “right hand” ( in Rev.13:16-17) and that nobody could “buy ore sell” without having this “mark”….Than we really wanna know
      1.what is the “mark” ?
      2.what does it mean that no one can “buy ore sell” anything without it?

      I belive there is a clue given us about what a “mark” on “forehead and right hand ” is if we look at
      Exodus 13:9 “And this will serve for you as a sign in your hand and as a memorial on your forehead,
      so that Jehovahs law may be in your mouth,for with a mighty hand Jehovah brought you out of Egypt.”

      I understand this as something that should occupy your mind (mark forehead) and something to always do (mark hand).
      (The hypocrite Fariseean used (and still) go around with visible capsule on the forehead and hand .)
      Deuteronomy 6:4-8 Gives us even more “meat” on this” bone”…It starts of with verse 4,5 to remind us of the greatest of all commandments of all “Listen O Israel :Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.You must love Jehovah our God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength.”
      The next verses tells us that this should occupy their minds “mark forehead” all the time…and even occupy the heart…its about taking a full and complete stand for Jehovah..

      Then if we look at Deuteronomy 11:16 an 18 we find an very interesting contrast ..
      16 “Be careful not to let your heart be enticed to go astray and worship other gods and bow down to them”

      The question is how and what should they/we do to prevent ore protect from walk in that wrong direction?

      18″You must impress these words of mine on your heart and your soul and bind them as a reminder on your hand ,and they should be like a headband on your forehead”.

      This is about the good “mark” from Jehovah ..(.see also Rev.7:3)

      This is why i belive the “mark” of the beast in same way will completely occupy the minds (forehead)
      and even the hearts of those who take a complete stand for satan…only way to avoid this is to follow the steps mentioned above .

      But what then about not be able to buy ore sell without the “mark” of the beast?

      First of..buy ore sell what?
      Is this really about food,water,gas and so on?
      Maybe..i do not know…but what about the parable of the 10 virgins..Matt.25:9,10
      The five wise ones was prepared beforehand on what would become a serious problem…
      and this has something to do with buying and selling…they had extra “oil” …
      So when the bridegroom came they did not have to “buy” anything..
      The five foolish ones was forced to go and “buy”

      So in this case its not about buying food but something to” enlighten ” them to guide and make them able to “see” where to go…
      The five foolish ones had unfortunately no other option than to go and “buy”…soo foolish of them..they should have been prepared for this situation …the very fact that they went away (astray)
      to buy…went out to be the reason why they came too late and was not let in..

      This is why i think maybe the buying and selling is not so much about food and water and so on but about “storing” up extra “oil” so that we do not need to take any part of buying and selling ..
      As the five vise ones was neither interested to sell oil to the foolish ones,

      I belive in the future that only the “foolish ” will be forced to give in and actually see no other way than take the “mark” of the beast in order to in a desperate way get “oil”
      If so they will give their whole heart and mind to the beast and thats why He say onto them “i do not know you”

      Hope this can shed a little more light on that issue 🙂

      • Southern ShaSha

        Hello Arvid, if it is meaning in a financial way, we can sure see the effort to go to a cashless society. Everything we have now is chipped, debit, credit, with all information contained within a chip. Just as H u l d a h, sorry won’t allow me to spell your name, expressed some sort of govt. issuance to be monitored. Go along and accept or be cut off. Maybe a far out thought, but who knows?

        • Joseph of Aramathea

          Right on the money sis,

          https://youtu.be/RTVk5LSpdZc

          • Southern ShaSha

            Hello Joseph, amazing stuff, huh! Yesterday’s science fiction, becomes today’s reality. We are aware they have all the capability to bring it to fruition. Without knowing the truth, would be a very terrifying end.

        • Beverly kenyon

          True Southern ShaSha, as I saw a programme the other day where the commentator said in some places in China there is no actual hard cash as everyone pays by their phones, so you can see where it’s going, everything electronic and chipped and the government know who you are and where you are as we’re all plugged in.

      • Burt Reynolds

        So are you suggesting then Arvid that the mark in hand and forehead is spiritual food so that we are aware of what’s happening, and know that we have to trust in Jehovah. Spiritual knowledge? Thus the mark of the beast maybe one of those not having faith, going back to reliance on the system?

        • Arvid Fløysand

          As we clearly can see from the scriptures that the good “mark” from Jehovah is all about total dedication and love for Him…than i guess the same goes for the “mark” of the beast…satan will demand total dedication and love for himself…people of this world will not have any problems with that…remember Jesus said that the whole world will be like in Noahs days…people will go on living their life as they always have done..the hard time will be for those who deny to dedicate themselves totally to the beast…

          Another example of this is the account in Daniel cap.3
          Daniels friends already had the good “mark” from Jehovah…because they were totally dedicate to serve Him.
          Everyone else gave their total submission to Nebuchadnezzar and by doing so they took his “mark” upon themselves..
          This account is actually telling us what the “mark” of the beast is all about.

          Spiritual food is important but it is more important to let the spiritual food “mark” us..live in it and by it…form and direct our mind “forehead” and our actions “hand” day and night …that type of dedication is exactly what satan want to have for himself..he want what belongs only to Jehovah…and he is going to command this in a similar way as the mad Babylonian king did…and yes..only those with strong faith will be standing,not willing to kneel down to him.

          So if we imagine that Jehovahs word is like a olive tree…than it is now the right time to climb up and collect as much as we can of those valuable fruits and start the hard work to press and squeeze all the oil we can get out of every scripture and make ourselves some” extra fine virgin olive oil”..:-)

          • Burt Reynolds

            Thanks Alvin. That’s good advice.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Alvin….lol.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Don’t you just hate auto spell correct Betty ?!

            • Beverly kenyon

              My young friend was going to call her child Betty if it was a girl…it was a boy! Those old fashioned names are making a come back with the young trendies. I was really laughing Burt as I just don’t see Arvid as a ‘Alvin’. Lol. Still giggling about it!??

          • Beverly kenyon

            Wow, Arvid, absolutely love your illustration of squeezing out all the spiritual oil we can out of the olive tree, the organic extra fine olive oil of Jehovah’s Word. Stunning point! You give me so much to think about!

      • Beverly kenyon

        Hey Arvid, where I live there’s a huge Jewish community and I’ve seen them wearing those Phylacteries, the scripture containing scripture cases. I agree with you in that we should be topping up our ‘spiritual oil’ for when they will be a shortage when we’re on lockdown in the hour of darkness when the beast comes out of the abyss and goes on a cosmocidal (Brother king’s word and it’s apt) rampage and during that time it will be ‘spiritual oil’ that will sustain us and it also brings to mind that scripture that Jesus said to the Devil during his time of test in the wilderness of, It is written, Man must live not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through Jehovah’s mouth. Matt4:4. Thanks Arvid for an alternative view point, it’s got me thinking.

        • Arvid Fløysand

          Yes very good point…while some choose to wear Jehovahs word in capsules outside of the body…Jesus was speaking of “eating” Jehovahs word and “digest” it in order to make it a total part of our life ..live by it and in it..to form our mind “forehead”..and direct our actions “hand”

      • Jamie Mac

        Hi Arvid

        Regarding the Mark. As there will be a world government at the time it is logical to assume there will be a world bank. This world bank will have dominion over everyone’s finances. I don’t suppose there will be any paper money anymore, it will all be digital. This leads in the direction of chips or something of that nature. This technology is already available. The only problem I see for this is the logistics of it all. It will take some time for this to happen.

        Regarding the buying and selling. I have always thought that means buying and selling of everyday essentials like food, water, clothing etc. The vast majority of mankind will accept the mark and they will have only survival on their minds and the thought of spiritual oil will be far from there thoughts.

        Those with insight and a love for Jehovah will not accept the mark under any circumstances and this will mean they cannot buy or sell.

        This is just my take on it.

        As Joseph pointed out:

        For the initial Shock wave, than Jehovah will gather those faithful ones and shelter them.

    • No doubt the mark of the beast will be something that will involve some sort of compromise in the worship of Jehovah. Christians have been through this before. Cesar required Christians to put a pinch of incense upon an altar to avoid death in the coliseum. Hitler required an arm stuck up in the air at a 45 degree angle. Whatever. The 11th chapter of Daniel describes those who overcome the apostasy as those “knowing their God.” The masses of churchgoers have no problem with worship of the state, fighting and killing and all that. That’s because they do not know Jehovah.

      So, receiving the mark will involve something that clearly violates our faith. What exactly it will be doesn’t matter at this point. Obviously, merely receiving some sort of microchip implant would not be a violation of Christian faith. It will be something that Jehovah’s Witnesses presently view as a sin against God.

      The pledge of allegiance to the super state, or else no food voucher?

      • Huldah

        Hi Robert
        Your last point about the mark being something Witnesses already view as a sin against God made me think about something you had mentioned.

        As we await what happens in Russia, I do have to wonder if the brothers will be directed by the organization to compromise in some small way to avoid persecution. The NGO vs. YMCA thing is another example of this.

        I become increasingly concerned that what we used to be convinced was compromise will be reasoned in some subtle way to no longer be compromise. Small things like political cards or signing a paper that says you won’t witness.

        I have seen so much dangerous alternative reasoning from close ( well titled) Witness family recently, even on things like fornication, divorce and adultery. The propensity to use any sort of reasoning to justify the belief that compromise is okay “in this case” or in “our situation” is scary.

        We should all be aware of the possibility that we could be directed from prominent ones in the organization to compromise or at least convinced by them that it’s justified if life and sustenance are involved.

        Faithful in least faithful in much, anyway. I’m reminded of the old prophet and the unnamed prophet. It’s the small compromises that get ya in the end. We can see the big ones a mile away.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Very true. Thank you for the insight.

        • Srecko Sostar

          Malawi and Mexico examples confirm your thoughts :)) In other way “life important instructions gave by GB” can be problematic, very problematic

      • thats been one on my mind. Babylon (Christendom) has much of the food but that could change too

        • Beverly kenyon

          True DA. ??

      • Burt Reynolds

        It certainly can be a fine dividing line. Look at what happened in Malawi as opposed to Mexico where the watchtower sent people to their death on the one hand and to mere compromise on the other over the same issue. We have to have all the spiritual oil we can get now to save us from the influence of false teaching…of knowing what is Caesars and what is Jehovah’s. I would have difficulty over the example of a state microchip, but I don’t know why! How do we get the balance of stuff like that? Is it not like a voting card registration in the Malawian situation?

        • Beverly kenyon

          Haven’t they already started compromising on certain things as mentioned by you and Hulda, Burt. For me the Apostasy is subtly creeping in and what was considered bad is now regarded as good. But that’s how the Man of Lawlessness operates…sly and subtle. And let’s not forget how to avoid paying a small fine the witnesses in Chile is required to display the Chilean national flag at their KH’s. Whether they’re still practising that I don’t know.

          • Burt Reynolds

            The witnesses have to display the Chile flag on their halls?….that really is hot news!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Don’t know if the flags are displayed in the actual halls, but the picture I saw was the KH displaying the Chilean flag out at the front of the hall. Don’t know how they sold that idea to the witnesses but you can see how easily they’re persuaded to compromise their faith and conscience. I was going to say, Bible trained conscience, but they can’t be trained that well to cave in to save a few pennies!

            • Burt Reynolds

              No one got my pun on a chile flag being ‘hot’ news….chilli……hot….no? I’m getting old…☹️

            • Jamie Mac

              Burt, I got it. Just thought I’d let you know to RAISE your spirits

            • Burt Reynolds

              Ha ha. Hic.??

            • Beverly kenyon

              I get it now! That’s a good one! ??

            • Srecko Sostar

              HI! as i can recall from wt magazines, in i think 2 world war time, because USA JW children do not want to “worship” the flag every morning, were expelled from schools. Result was that JW has own (?) schools but instead gathered all children together in yard at the beginning of class time and looking how flag have been rise, somebody put the flag up (every morning or in some-how other way, i am not familiar with that USA customs) and children was in class without any ceremony. Correct me if you know more details :))

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya, Srecko, good to hear from you. Sorry Srecko, but I’ve never heard of that one but I do know nationalism is instilled in school children in America. Over here in England, sometimes in school we used to have to sing the Nathional Anthem, God Save the Queen and none of us knew the words and didn’t have a clue as to its meaning apart from singing about God saving some old bird who was called a queen and she spoke to everyone on the telly on Christmas Day I think, none of us really cared and it was boring…still is, lol! I think the Sex Pistols summed it perfectly back in those radical days. It doesn’t surprise me Srecko about these sort of things, when it comes to compromise, compromise look at their long affair with the Beast and if by a miracle they found a conscience and publicly said sorry, they would only be sorry….they got caught! So once again, if that did happen it wouldn’t surprise me at all as they’re very much a part of BGT! Take care Srecko and look after yourself!

            • Srecko Sostar

              Hiya Beverly 🙂 yes WT in USA has won court cases after, for that flag salute issue in schools, but they still been raised the flag in own arrangement. On other hand bible said “do not touch unclean things” :))))))) and flag as symbol is comparable with cross or some of other Great Babylon religious symbols that according to JWorg view based on Bible teaching is something disgusting for true christians.
              From whatever points try to looking on any details about “compromise” we are always in situation that may be questionable from standpoint of conscience or rules or law or judgemental society.
              Take care you too! 🙂

            • Max

              In Chile the KH is considered a public
              used building so all the KH do hung a flag during independence day
              and some other holidays. I was there once it was shocking to see a
              huge flag hanging from a poll outside the KH in Santiago.

            • Burt Reynolds

              That’s a shame. I don’t think I would attend under those circumstances, or would not want to, but then I am not there and my thinking may be wrong.

        • Southern ShaSha

          Hello Burt. I also think in terms of how some sort of chipping device may come into play. I would think it would give power over the state to determine who gives allegiance, so as to be provided for, would give the ability to determine who goes along at any cost, or those who would refuse. Another issue you brought up awhile back, illustration of your driving instructor. To prepare always for the unexpected, to try and rationalize what one may do on a moments notice. I believe the tribulation will be situations, decision making as to conscience toward Jehovah, by the faith and knowledge we now acquire to make decisions that will be acceptable to him when the time comes. Some are black and white, others will be based I believe on our reliance on Him alone. Remembering always He is not the one out to get us, to trick, stumble or confuse. He does promise to protect all putting all our allegiance, loyalty and faith toward Him and His Son Christ Jesus. I hope I am understanding the scripture at Joel 2:28,29, ” in those days I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh”, if so another gift provided toward those with faith in Him and His son Jesus. What is your thought on the scripture found in the book of Joel!

          • Beverly kenyon

            I know your question is for Burt Southern ShaSha, Jehovah say, he’ll pour his spirit on EVERY sort of flesh in those days, and in v29 it goes on to say, even on the menservants and maidservants and further on in v32, everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe giving a sense of a group of people. So yes, every sort of flesh, menservants and maidservants will get a good dousing of Jehovah’s Holy Spirit just as he did to those ones at Penecost where Peter referenced that very same scripture at Joel. Acts2:17-21. They were even accused of being drunk by certain ones who were mocking them.

            • Southern ShaSha

              Than you Beverly. That’s what I thought it to mean. Blessings now, ever more in the future. We can appreciate even today on a small scale mocking as we demonstrate our only faith in Jehovah and His Son, how much more in the days ahead of us!
              Wow, can’t blame auto correct. Thank you was what I meant to type, most times my tiny brain runs a bit faster than my poor typing skills.

            • Beverly kenyon

              I’m the same ShaSha, I make some laughable mistakes as I think fast but my silly fingers can’t keep up! Lol. Make sure you’re around ShaSha for that drenching of Holy Spirit as I think we’ll recall all the scriptures and speak of Jehovah and and His Son, Jesus Christ in the most wondrous way!

            • Beverly kenyon

              ShaSha, Brother King’s article today based on their day’s text should be right up your street as its talking about the question you brought up yesterday to Burt.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello ShaSha,…whenever I read your name I have a picture of someone shimmying down on the dance floor to glen Miller…..?….but insofar as your question goes, whereas the degree of blessing may be different, and the gravity of the test of course, I think the principles of faith are the same for all. How could they be different I ask myself? Hopefully, the degree of punishment will be less for some.

      • Brian

        Robert, indeed it will be some sort of compromise, the biggest compromise that I could see is the people will be attracted to what they the powers that be are saying in regards to the false kingdom that mankind will be holding up, they very well could be holding it up as being actually from God and the religions of the world would more than likely “bless” it as though it is from God and after all these Kings stand in their relative positions according to Gods will so it would be no stretch for them to do this act of absolute blasphemy. It may not be as draconian as one may think as the whole world will be “worshipping” the beast and it is better to cajole people with a “friendly” approach than a nasty one! It will be peoples free choice to “worship” the beast and believe in what it will be promising as opposed to believing that Jesus in the Kingdom is their hope and saviour, the choice has to be obvious and able to be seen by all on the planet for them to be subjected to the second death the first time around.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          I enjoyed reading your comment Brian thank you.
          Scriptures to go along with your thoughts .

          And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively.Daniel11: 32. Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/daniel/11/#v27011032

          • Brian

            Hi Kevin, indeed smooth words would by no means manifest itself as a beating, of course if they they don’t jump through the hoops presented to them they will get beaten and severely no doubt, but this doesn’t alter the fact that it will still present to the world something wonderful, the best thing for mankind ever even promoting it that it is from God and this will be part of the “blasphemous sayings” and speaking against God.

        • You really don’t know the Scriptures. Jehovah describes Satan’s empire as a beast because it acts like one, especially so after Christ takes over the Kingdom. The fact that the beast kills everyone who refuses the mark indicates it is as draconian as can be. Habakkuk describes the last kingdom as a fisherman who catches all mankind in his net and dines upon them. It has always been the policy of the British Empire to reduce the world’s population by a sizable percentage, some say 80%. Jehovah’s judgment allows for the beast to implement a global genocide in order to bring the full horror of Satan’s rulership over the world to its fitting, horrific end.

          • Brian

            It was only a suggestion that it may not be as draconian as many may think, the best way to con men are to present them with something that looks good, I am not saying it would be good just that it could very well look that way. It’s blasphemous ramblings will be at the time when the world looks like it will be tearing itself apart so some “soothing words” and even actions would be best to get people on board and if you don’t even the onlookers would find justification in killing those that don’t.

            • Bayonets have been very effective to get “people on board.” Blunt force always works. Indeed, Jehovah realized long ago that only terror will make them understand. So, he is going to allow the world to be subjected to a reign of terror by the tyrants of the nations that is unprecedented in scope. Billions of people are going to be liquidated. It is what I have been writing about for the past 15 years.

            • Joseph
            • Joseph

              World Population by Religion

              According to a recent study (based on the 2010 world population of 6.9 billion) by The Pew Forum, there are:

              2,173,180,000 Christians (31% of world population), of which 50% are Catholic, 37% Protestant, 12% Orthodox, and 1% other.
              1,598,510,000 Muslims (23%), of which 87-90% are Sunnis, 10-13% Shia.
              1,126,500,000 No Religion affiliation (16%): atheists, agnostics and people who do not identify with any particular religion. One-in-five people (20%) in the United States are religiously unaffiliated.
              1,033,080,000 Hindus (15%), the overwhelming majority (94%) of which live in India.
              487,540,000 Buddhists (7%), of which half live in China.
              405,120,000 Folk Religionists (6%): faiths that are closely associated with a particular group of people, ethnicity or tribe.
              58,110,000 Other Religions (1%): Baha’i faith, Taoism, Jainism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Tenrikyo, Wicca, Zoroastrianism and many others.
              13,850,000 Jews (0.2%), four-fifths of which live in two countries: United States (41%) and Israel (41%).

            • Burt Reynolds

              Joseph, you got your figures wrong there. There are 1,033,080,002 Hindus not 1,033,080,000. Rajit and Hamadan joined last Wednesday at the Bangalore temple. You really aught to keep up Joseph! ☹️

            • Jamie Mac

              Burt, tut tut, you forgot about Saqib. That makes it 1,033,080,003 at the last count.

            • Burt Reynolds

              You’re right. I am ashamed. I shall issue a Fatwah against myself forthwith and go into hiding.

            • Brian

              Indeed Robert, that is why the “beast” when it comes out of the sea will have words and actions “that will be music to their ears” and no doubt promises will be made to those ears that they/it are the only ones that can fix these problems, problems that have plagued mankind for how long now!

            • According to the oligarchy presently ruling the world the main problem that is threatening mankind is over-population. That is what they intend to fix.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Well at least I’m safe. I’m not one of the over population, I’m unique!

            • Joseph
            • Jamie Mac

              They even own your eyebrows. Hey Joseph, what’s with the name changing. I have to look at your avatar to make sure it’s the same Joseph I am getting to know.

            • Joseph-Southern Style

              Good morning Jamie, just like to mix it up a bit! If you look under the photo, it will always be Joseph Stephan ! I’m goofy

            • Jamie Mac

              Your up nice and early this morning Joseph. I’m guessing your 6 hours behind the UK 🙂

            • Joseph-Southern Style
            • Jamie Mac

              Ha Ha, Talking of lawns I have just recently laid some new turf adjacent to the garden path leading to my little house. Every time someone comes to the front door it gets mentioned because the new turf is a darker shade and it stand out. I’ll take a photo and you can judge for yourself. I can live with it but it appears other cannot 🙂

            • Joseph S.
            • Jamie Mac

              He He yet another Monty Python fan.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Not just our eyebrows they own Jamie, our cars and I think anything with software in it. Was watching Keiser Report and it as about some company owning the cars we think we’ve bought and we own it, but we’re really leasing it and it’s because of the, Digital Millenium Copywrite Act that Bill Clinton brought in during his administration and some huge American copy bought it knowing they would own all the software in cars so effectively owning the car. So it comes down to does the ordinary person own anything!

            • Jamie Mac

              Yes Beverly, there is so much the common man or lady doesn’t know. It’s all gunna change very soon. You and I can eat all the figs that we desire then 🙂

            • Richard Long

              A submission in support of your point.

              https://prof77.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/carved-in-stone-maintain-humanity-under-500000000-yep-they-want-us-dead/

              Your estimate of a planned 80% reduction in population is probably conservative. These people are so very generous that you are not limited to only one menu item but may have your fill of everything they offer. What war doesn’t accomplish, famine will, and what famine doesn’t, pestilence will.

              I am loath to speak my mind here, but I will and beg forgiveness if I overstep.

              Have you not repeatedly said that these events (the genocide) are the great tribulation, which PRECEDES the ascension of the eighth king, who will administer the mark, with the murder of the holy ones to follow. Could it be the general scenario Brian has laid out has its place in the space of the “one hour” preceding your martyrdom? Daniel, Han·a·niʹah, Mishʹa·el, and Az·a·riʹah were well treated in Babylon, but their martyrdom(s) would have been sufficiently terrifying, even if divinely prevented, if that example has a correct application here.

            • Jamie Mac

              I read somewhere once , this was about 20 years ago, that everyone living then could be placed on the Isle of Wight, just off the coast from Southampton Southern England, shoulder to shoulder.

              The point being during the thousand year reign the earth will be re-populated via the resurrection and rest assured there will be plenty of space. Ironic isn’t it , they , the oligarchy, will endure the second death and the earth will have even more inhabitants. Perfect justice.

          • Francis Bencharles

            When Hitler realized he could not win the war he had his soldiers destroy rail lines, blow up bridges and factories they could no longer use. He had an “If I can’t have it, nobody is going to have it” mentality. Satan’s mental disposition will be the same or worse. He lost the battle with Michael in the heavens so what chance does he have fighting him on earth. He knows his days are numbered and he will attempt to leave his mark on mankind. Watch Out!

  • Max

    Do you guys think it would be a good idea to prepare with food and supplies? Its going to be 3 1/2 years before we are free from this system. Any thoughts?

    • Jamie Mac

      Hi Max, that’s been mentioned before. I think Robert mentioned having a few supplies tucked by. I have been buying water. Better hide them well though, as I can imagine gangs , desperate gangs going around looking for these stashed away goodies.

      • Joseph of Aramathea

        True, pantries will be looted, stash your goodies in a dry cool place. Like under the house in the crawl space!

        • Southern ShaSha

          Very good thought, never thought of doing that! Thank you Joseph.

      • Southern ShaSha

        Hi Jamie, I agree with Joseph on having some goods set aside. I live in serious tornado country, so something we try to be prepared for ahead of a disaster. However, agree also, when it all comes crashing down the hoards will be roaming the streets, many who enjoy the opportunity to be destructive. But then there is the neighbor family just across the street with their babies in tow, crying, frightened and hungry. Wouldn’t we, shouldn’t we feel compelled to help in any modest way. They may not be our brother but certainly are our neighbor. Along with my own three young grandchildren. So I suppose at this point in time we go with our gut and most of all rely on Jehovah, always remain faithful, be in the best position to provide for as long as possible!

      • Beverly kenyon

        Jamie, ages ago we had a discussion about this very subject about stocking up with supplies and Joseph sent me that link about augasonfarms where the food is hermetically sealed and can last for many years, it was really interesting but as I’ve grown spiritually here on this site, topping up my spiritual oil I’ve stopped prepping as I feel very confident that Jehovah will provide and now I’m free from that worry, it doesn’t bother me anymore and that’s coupled with the fact if Putin doesn’t vaporise me first and I’m sent on my way to Hades…at least it will be a quick exit! I’ve still got my stash of provisions from when I was prepping but I won’t be topping it up.

    • Joseph of Aramathea

      Yes Max, you should have a few months worth of supplies. For the initial Shockwave, than Jehovah will gather those faithful ones and shelter them.

      http://www.augasonfarms.com/Food-Supply-Kits/30-Day-Kits

    • Arvid Fløysand

      Even more important…store up “oil”(Matt.25:9,10 )

      • Daisy

        Rom 12:2…Don’t copy the behaviour and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.
        Then you will learn to know god’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect…
        How? ….by not conforming to the ways of this world…by getting into the bible, changing attitudes, ideals, renewing the spirit of our minds and to put on the new self , created after the likeness of God in true RIGHTEOUSNESS and holiness…Eph 4….
        we must work constantly on
        transforming the mind, the spiritual part of our soul that connects to our hearts.
        Only then, with the knowledge and spirit (oil) that we have stored up, will we be receiving the good marks from God which leads us to that narrow pathway.
        Thank you Arvid. Hope I’ve understood you…

        • Arvid Fløysand

          You absolutely got it 🙂

    • if you are certain you will be stationary then a lot. if you think you could easily be forced to leave then you just stocked up for nothing. if you dont move and are stocked up, then will you be pillaged for what lot you have?

      https://e-watchman.com/to-prepare-or-not-to-prepare/

  • Bklyn Kevin

    QUESTION: What is the mark of the beast and how can one avoid having such a mark?.
    Excerpt:
    ANSWER: That is a good question. It is a question that Jehovah’s Witnesses should seriously reconsider. But to better appreciate the significance of the 666 mark of the beast the question ought to be rephrased to ask: What and when is the mark of the beast? Allow me to explain. Read more>
    https://e-watchman.com/666-mark-beast/

    Also read >The Mark of the Beast. https://e-watchman.com/jehovahs-witnesses-the-mark-of-the-beast/

    Read a lot more>
    Search results for: Mark of the beast > https://e-watchman.com/?s=Mark+of+the+beast>

  • Nigel

    Brother King, if “the Son of man [has not yet] received his kingdom”, how are we to understand Colossians 1:13, Revelation 1:5, 3:21, Hebrews 5:9,10, 6:20, 8:1 (bearing in mind that a priest in the Order of Melchizedek is both a priest AND a king (Gen 14:18)) and Luke 23:3?

    (Compare also: Eph 1:20-23, 1 Cor 15:24,25, Matt 2:2, 28:18, John 1:49, Rev 3:7, 19:11-16, Heb 2:9, Phil 2:9-11, Acts 17:7 and Ps 110:2,4.)

  • Hamparsum Menekse

    Petrodollar will end.hyperenflation like Venezuela everyvere dollar will loose it’s purchaseing power.i am buying physical silver.1 ozs silver buying 3to 6 month food in Venezuela.

  • Srecko Sostar

    When Robert used this verse: “When they persecute you in one city, flee to another; for truly I say to you, you will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.” —Matthew 10:23, i can not help to ask myself; If is ok to take this advice or instruction verbatim, literal than would it be normal to expect from JWorg also giving legal advice and instruction to Russian brothers not to fight for their “human and religious rights” but to go, flee out of homes and towns to another?
    Just hypothetical and ironic question of course :))))

  • JTK

    My understanding of what the mark will be is that it will be a declaration of subjection to the authority of the eighth king or in secular terms the one world government.
    it will not soley affect those who go door to door, or soley Jehovahs Witnesses, but also those who believe and have faith in Christ. Any such worship will not be allowed by the eighth king.
    Nebuchadnezar set up the image of gold on the plains of dura in Babylon and set in place an inauguration and decreed that everyone no matter what nationality, or language, or in effect which God they worshiped should bow down and worship the image, the punishment for not doing so was death
    Dan 3
    this event is seems to be a forgleam of the eighth king demanding worship from all peoples national groups and languages, and by default all religious type beliefs.(the mark 666)
    there may of course be those who do not worship Yahweh but worship false Gods who will resist and probably die because of it, but it is certain that the sons of the Kingdom will not worship the beast or receive the mark
    they of course are the main target of Satan, however they are given protection time by Yahweh
    REV 11
    it seems to me that scripture is telling us that this protected final witness by the Sons of the Kingdom right in front of the face of the Satanic eighth king is gonna be something special that seperates mankind into two camps.
    those who comply with the beast and those who refuse to obey and heed the Sons of the kingdom and worship the true God

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Some of my thoughts.
      Identifying people with the symbolic mark of the wild beast will be unmistakable because those who have the mark will openly as well as knowingly give their reverence to the new world order that Satan the devil has setup as a counterfeit kingdom as the only hope for mankind, thus rejecting the messianic kingdom ,how so one might ask? –
      Daniel the prophet said it well when he said “Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant. Daniel 12:4.

      Now we know to some degree that the true knowledge has become abundant but the days that Daniel is talking about is the end times when the pangs of distress would have come upon people and the eighth king would be in the process of being setup as the only hope for mankind and that’s when people and nations along with the SO CALLED brothers and sisters will actually deliver you up to tribulations as far as killing you if you don’t accept the new world order and its ideology’s ,In fact the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God thinking that the new world order is an expression of GODS kingdom But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively and those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days.
      By then the lie concerning the Watchtower’s 1914 scenario that Jesus had came back in 1914 will be completely exposed because Jesus had arrived in his authentic Parousia then the truth will be clear for all to see because the whole world would have bore witness to the actual fulfillment of the prophecies as told by Jesus in the book of Matthew 24: and Revelations.6:
      In other words when Jesus comes in his authentic Parousia it will be as if Jesus himself had preached to the whole world because of the fulfillment of those for told prophecies by Jesus..
      Keep in mind that you will know your true brothers and sisters by the true love they have among them selves because true brothers and sisters will know their GOD/ Jehovah and will not hate you and hand you over to tribulation to be killed.
      All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. Then people will hand you over to tribulation+ and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name Matthew 24:8-9.
      I have said these things to you so that you may not be stumbled. Men will expel you from the synagogue. But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. John16:2-3.
      And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively. And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days. But when they are made to stumble, they will be given a little help; and many will join with them by means of smooth speech. And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and a whitening until the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed. Daniel 32-3511:
      I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among your selves.”John 13:34-35.

      • JTK

        that’s really interesting as it adds a fuller meaning about the mark being symbolic of an act of worship to the beast
        however What I cannot grasp is how it could possibly occur that a world government could not only economically force people to receive the mark but also attract the worship of someone who has served and worshiped Jehovah and Christ, and shunned secular government
        this has stumped me.
        you mention the scripture referring to smooth words leading those who act wickedly against the covenant. i assume The covenant referred to is the covenant of Christ with his brothers, the new covenant?.
        its a hazy picture to me at present, all that I can discern is that it is going to be a time of testing and persecution.
        I have a feeling that this eighth king is gonna be something never before seen, probably having miraculous power given by Satan which it uses to deceive mankind
        do you think its possible that it could even be produce a fake kingdom to fool Witnesses?

        • The Raven

          I am reminded of this whenever I wonder how God’s people can actually turn on each other and accept idols. These people saw Jehovah’s power through the plagues and deliverance from Egypt:
          Numbers 16:1-50

        • Burt Reynolds

          I’m not sure of that either, JTK, but it occurred to me how evident the similarities are between what the watchtower preach in that Christ already began ruling in 1914. The point being that the eighth King will mimic biblical prophesy of a (righteous) world government, and that it is Jehovah who is demanding aliegence to it…’this is it!’ So to speak. The intention is to decieve is it not. What better deception then? Robert suggested some time ago that the act of aliegence may be some token gesture such as the early Christians were asked to do, such as sprinkling an offering on an alter, to avoid being sent to the lions in the arena. The issue is, as you point out, insightful allegiance, and thus the deception would perhaps be based on a superficial understanding of the bible to fool the majority, but threats to coerce the aliegence of the faithful….ergo, this is Jehovah’s kingdom, if you do not recognise it as such you will be killed….dead for ever. This makes it plain then that the love of Jehovah and the willingness to see his name vindicated, would exceed the value that we put on our own lives, and falls to us to recognise the difference between the truth and the lie. The deception is such that were it not for Jehovah’s intervention, even the faithful will be fooled. Thus we need to understand the difference between the two kingdoms. The thought that then springs to mind is: if even the insightful chosen can fail, what of us plebeians? I suppose the answer to that is, that we have faith that it will be shown us. No easy task given the issues to hand. The above is just conjecture by the way. I have no idea personally.

          • Bklyn Kevin

            “POW” burt ! thank you…

        • Bklyn Kevin

          @ burt too…

          Should I stay or should I go?….
          Excerpt: if Jehovah’s Witnesses are the true faith why are there stumbling blocks in the first place? The prophecy of Daniel sheds some light on it. Speaking of the nefarious activity of the king of the north, the prophet states: “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively. And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days. But when they are made to stumble, they will be given a little help; and many will join with them by means of smooth speech. And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and a whitening until the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed.”

          According to the words written down in the book of truth, those with insight and those who have been led into apostasy, are in the same covenant, meaning they are in Christ’s congregation —otherwise how could some act wickedly against the covenant? This is in accord with the teachings of Jesus; namely, that there is a faithful and unfaithful slave, both of whom work within the same household up until the time of the end.

          What happens when the time of the end arrives? Initially, sword, flame and captivity, when many more are made to stumble —as Jesus foretold. But ultimately during the time of the end, or the conclusion of the system, Jesus will dispatch his powerful angels to remove all persons doing lawlessness and all things that cause stumbling. Where are they removed from? Jesus said, “out from his Kingdom.”

          As foretold in Daniel, the stumbling blocks serve a purpose —to accomplish a cleansing and whitening. The safeguard against stumbling is knowing Jehovah. Ultimately, the refined ones will impart understanding to the many when they shine as brightly as the sun in Jehovah’s Kingdom, after the lawless persons have been removed.
          Read more>https://e-watchman.com/should-i-stay-or-should-i-go/

          • The Raven

            To add to my thoughts on this, since a world war will destroy most of the military men and hardware above ground, and EMPs from numerous warheads would render computerized weapons junk, not to mention untouchable from radiation in areas in close proximity to those which sustained direct hits, they would have already manufactured much more sophisticated machines and tucked them away in non military( targeted) sites for later. There is very small room allocated for government and military forces. Why? They won’t need many of them either. The elite do not want anyone with the capacity to challenge them. The forces which will dominate under the beast are part of the present day shadow government and traitors within the US and UK. Agents of the demonically driven elite. Even now they are in a power struggle.
            These machines, such as drones are the most efficacious way to locate survivors which will spread out across the earth. When the time comes after more folks get on board with the beast, they will send troops out to get them. I can see folks turning in God’s people if they are confronted by the government with being a subversive for helping or hiding them. Simply look at past communist regimes to know that’s true. And this will be worse.
            We must help each other in those days. No matter what. I think the biggest test will be this. Having enough love for one another and Jehovah that we will bear anything the beast throws at us together to see the new kingdom.
            Just my two cents.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              QUESTION: In view of your latest article on the new world order, how does Revelation 13:11-16 fit in?
              Excerpt:
              As for the beast making fire come down from heaven, this may become manifest in certain nations being obliterated by thermonuclear missiles raining down from the heavens. Or it may be some top-secret weapon that is yet to be unveiled, such as satellite-mounted lasers or even manmade meteors, dubbed “rods of God.”Read more>
              https://e-watchman.com/meaning-beast-rising-earth/

            • The Raven

              Yep. Those are the lines I’m thinking along. Thanks, Kevin!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Raven said “We must help each other in those days. No matter what. I think the biggest test will be this. Having enough love for one another and Jehovah that we will bear anything the beast throws at us together to see the new kingdom.
              Just my two cents.
              Well the scriptures most certainly agrees with your thought.

              Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah* your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul* and with your whole mind.’This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”Matthew 36-40.22:

              Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love. 1Corinthians 13-13
              13:Read more>
              https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/1-corinthians/13/#v46013013

            • Joseph S.

              Very good observation, fast forward to the drone thing ( which must definitely will be used during the rule of the 8th king) most of the attacks are pinpointed and guided in by the cell phones GPS locator.
              So when Jehovah’s people are on the run its going to be VITAL (lIfe or death) NO ONE in the group has smart technology. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/55dd912d2cbb9fa6f2ee63bbb363d3cb887e3701ae3d0873f22e1165215ca7d7.jpg

            • The Raven

              I am pretty certain the means for full spectrum dominance have already been created and stashed somewhere. After collapse I don’t think we’re going to have any capacity to manufacture much of anything for a while let alone electricity.
              In the discussion we had a few weeks ago we speculated that TPTB will not permit a power vacuum to exist for long. This supports Robert’s view that these events will transpire quickly.
              After this begins, I think we’re going to be shocked to find out what they’ve been hiding.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          JTK said “What I cannot grasp is how it could possibly occur that a world government could not only economically force people to receive the mark but also attract the worship of someone who has served and worshiped Jehovah and Christ, and shunned secular government
          this has stumped me.But Jesus also opened the minds of people to “see” the truth. That is why Christ referred to himself as “the way and the truth” and “the light of the world.” Conversely, Satan and the demons are the rulers of darkness and possess the power to blind the minds of unbelievers. And according to the light of scripture the world at large is entirely cloaked in demonic murk.

          Let Your Kingdom Come, Again!
          Excerpt:
          Of course, people do not consciously allow themselves to be mentally blinded by the Devil. There is deception involved. Satan misleads people by first duping them to accept that the lies and misconceptions they believe are the truth. Under the demon’s pall the darkness becomes the light and the blind are convinced that they bask in divine radiance.Read more> https://e-watchman.com/let-kingdom-come/

          • JTK

            hi Kevin and Burt, im John.
            Kevin sorry i missed what you said in your first reply to my post about the eighth King, you obviously do see the eighth King as producing an “expression” of Gods kingdom, hence the attraction to many
            .
            And Burt you refer to a similar event in that the eighth King is proclaiming himself to be the righteous government that is promised in scripture

            It must be going to be a really clever deception to draw to it Witnesses
            its difficult to put the jigsaw together but could it be as crazy as the 1914 doctrine is played out to the Witnesses as being correct and fulfilled by the arrival of the eighth king

            • Richard Long

              John, I think essentially the MOL have/do so obscure the Witness’s expectations they genuinely can’t recognize the authentic kingdom upon it’s arrival because the very closely modeled counterfeit one is standing in it’s place.

            • JTK

              hi Richard
              i think it can only be one of two options.
              either the 1914 teaching continues to lead them and somehow manages a switch of alleigance to the eighth King as fulfillment of that teaching
              or
              the 1914 doctrine totally collapses and this causes a breakdown of faith of such magnitude that the eighth King appeals to those who now believe that God has been nothing more than a delusion to them
              the first is a faith based upon a delusion that leads to a counterfeit kingdom the second is no faith caused by that delusion being exposed
              personally i think it must be the second as the 1914 whitewashed wall will collapse and the resutling chaos will be beyond our current understanding.
              for some it may well that the collapse of the WT and expose of its1914 lie may well be too much and faith in God may well be beyond them ever again
              i also suspect that the MOL has more trickery up his sleeve than just the 1914 lie.
              Satan has an objective using his MOL, the 1914 delusion is not just put in place to tamper with the truth, it is an all out attempt to mislead and destroy Gods people
              Satan has all bases covered or so he thinks, he was not allowing for the revealing of the Sons of God and a protected period of preaching by them centre stage

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Time will tell….

      • Burt Reynolds

        Can you sort out who this is talking to and about Kevin? It seems to say some of the righteous will be made to stumble but will be given help. Does this mean help to stumble fully, or refer to those that have stumbled being given help by these ones to see the truth? I think the latter is do as it points to this help being by smooth speech. And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively. And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days. But when they are made to stumble, they will be given a little help; and many will join with them by means of smooth speech.
        ”And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and a whitening until the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed. Daniel 32-3511:
        I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among your selves.”John 13:34-35.

      • Richard Long

        Kevin, couldn’t we also assert that Satan and company have already floated this trial balloon with the NGO status. Not only did the GB let it fly, but it also floated past the greater number of publishers. Many of us inactive or out didn’t even hear of it until after the fact. That tells me there are way too many of us susceptible to following the eighth king, especially if he stands up in the place of Christ.

      • The Raven

        Kevin quote:
        “the days that Daniel is talking about is the end times when the pangs of distress would have come upon people and the eighth king would be in the process of being setup as the only hope for mankind”

        We know that the MIC and the Pentagon have been hiding all sorts of goodies for decades. Things they have no intentions of sharing with us at present time. Marvelous technological advances, medical miracles and who knows what else that never made it to the public or the patent office for our benefit . Their public ledgers cannot even begin to justify their expenditures. I know all that money went somewhere.
        After collapse and war the population will be sick, hungry and traumatized. I don’t think they are going to be too inclined to follow anyone unless they can show they will be of some real physical help to them in their suffering. That’s where the hook is. It’s not enough IMO to stand as a false fulfillment of prophecy or give folks smooth words, there have to be deeds as well. At first he may appear to be the benevolent government that seeks to heal mankind and impart hope to them.
        But once the beast has full control, its real intentions are revealed.
        Since the outbreak of war will shatter the illusion of the false parousia, many JWs will see this impostor for what he is. They will put two and two together. It’s those who support the wto and the MOL blindly even still that will be dangerous to the rest. As well as those who have completely lost their faith after the horrors of war. A war they did not believe would happen.
        These are my thoughts on this matter since I am having a very hard time seeing how this will come about.
        At the risk of appearing dense, I will admit that. But I assure you even if the beast were to raise the dead cure all my ails and offer filet mignon, I wouldn’t buy it.
        I would be the stubborn and suspicious outsider wearing stinking rags chewing on grass and seaweed while his parade of zombies strolls by.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Raven your thoughts are on point.

          Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first wild beast, whose mortal wound was healed. And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.Revelation 13:11-13.

          • The Raven

            Hi Kevin. I know we sometimes hound you and Robert over prophecy and the details we so much want to understand. Many of us agonize over the fact that we can’t know all of this. I think you and Robert know how we feel. He has already given us a great deal of insight and we are starving for more given the lateness of the hour. Maybe because we want to know not just how to be saved, but what we can do to help others along and not fall into traps.
            My thoughts can’t drift to the new world often while I am still here. I am occupied with trying to survive this one. Anything I can imagine it to be would probably pale with the reality anyway.
            But I do dream of it now and then.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I struggle /agonize just like you guys and I’m sure Robert does too however I do apply these scriptural principles to my self, nonetheless you and everyone else are always welcome to ask me any Biblical questions and I promise you I will always do my best and researched the subject and provide the material to you guys.

              Also you said “Maybe because we want to know not just how to be saved, but what we can do to help others along and not fall into traps. Maybe because we want to know not just how to be saved,”but what we can do” to help others along and not fall into traps.

              Here is what Jesus instructed us all to do.
              Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.

              Scriptural principles
              Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him! Matthew 7:11

              Moreover, if you call out for understanding
              And raise your voice for discernment;
              If you keep seeking for it as for silver,
              And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures;
              Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah,
              And you will find the knowledge of God.
              For Jehovah himself gives wisdom;
              From his mouth come knowledge and discernment.
              Proverbs 2:3-6

              So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. But let him keep asking in faith,+ not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah;he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways. James 5:5-8.agonize

            • Burt Reynolds

              ‘So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. But let him keep asking in faith,+ not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah;he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways. James 5:5-8.’

              This is an issue isn’t Kevin? If we ask in faith, it is because we understand the bible. If we understand the bible, we know we are ‘dust upon the scales’ ‘worthless slaves’, ‘full of sin’, and condemned to death. It is not an exaggeration to say that the above issues play a huge part in out lives. Indeed to step out from under them is to be haughty, to think more of ourselves than is necessary.

              In the scripture cited at James, we are told that we should not doubt that Jehovah will hear us, yet, who among us can say, without presumption upon the name of God, that we have received a reply? Are there not more chickens with teeth than there is evidence of Jehovah’s personal intervention in our lives that is not born of our hope that it is the case, above a tangible fact that it is?

              Thus on the one hand, James says that we should be without doubt, lest we be indecisive, ( Luke warm, vomited out), unsteady, and on the other, that we should believe that Jehovah answers our prayers, when the best evidence of this within ourselves would be mere assumption of the the Holy Spirit in our lives.

              So how can doubt not be a part of our lives when the bible discribes us as unworthy and so laden with sin when set against something so magnificently pure, that even the very sight of him would kill us? The lion does not expect to be fed. It takes every opportunity to feed itself. It is not aware that it will be fed tomorrow. Likewise, the biblical definition of faith is a contradiction in itself. ‘The assured expection of things….things what?…..HOPED for, but as yet unseen.’ And so today, we ‘hope’ that the sights and signs we see are evidence, but we are also warned that we know not, when the end will come. Likewise then, is it not also true that we only hope to get a hearing? How can we have faith in hope when hope is not a fact? I think at times, that the expression of faith, is having faith that faith in hope is what is required. But is ‘hope’, faith, or that by hoping, we build our house on sand? This is not a rhetorical question by the way!

        • Burt Reynolds

          Yes….but……the issue is whether you or I would recognise the beast as the beast and not the kingdom. You have a good point about the development and draw of the beast but it’s knowing the difference. There is so much contradiction of thought, implied or otherwise, it brings my brain to a standstill…which thinking about that, does not take a lot nowadays! What I am trying to get a grip on at present, is acquiring faith that we will be shown the difference, because, how can we hope to see through the satanic illusion? Do we have the insight of a spirit creature? No. I get the impression that we will be presented with a choice upon our dedication and the degree to which we will stand by that, rather than an illusion…..if you like, that the test is what is inside us, not what we see in front of us. To be frank, I often wonder if I even know what I am talking about. There must be a scripture somewhere for that!

          • The Raven

            It appears that the beast will do great things at a time when humanity is at its lowest point. Those having insight among us will know the difference. The mere fact that it tries to do what only God can do will be enough to convince some that he’s a fake. Here’s where those folks will tell others what’s what. I think the danger lies in trying to open the eyes of those who are completely sold on it. They can and will turn on us.
            People have always sought and followed leaders who talk a good line or can put on a good show but there have always been about 10-15% who don’t trust anyone. That small group are the ones who won’t get in line.
            I think that applies to people in general.

          • The Raven

            Also remember that any short term benefits or gifts people accept from the beast will be undone by Jehovah’s plagues. It may heal, clothe, feed and shelter them but it will be for damnation. There will be your real zombies as they refuse to repent and suffer some pretty terrible things as Jehovah’s wrath is poured out.
            My basic thought here without overthinking this to the point where I am paralyzed with fear is to avoid anything to do with any government that arises and help our people to see and understand the danger. I will wait on Jehovah even until death. I know he won’t give us more than we can bear. Kevin put it well in his comments about what we need to know in making decisions to help us survive. I’ll have to leave it at that:
            Kevin quote:
            “So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. But let him keep asking in faith,+ not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah;he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways. James 5:5-8.”

        • Jamie Mac

          Hi Raven

          You said

          ‘I would be the stubborn and suspicious outsider wearing stinking rags chewing on grass and seaweed while his parade of zombies strolls by’.

          That doesn’t paid a very appealing picture, but I so want to be along side you when that happens along with the rest of us earnestly waiting and watching for these events to manifest themselves.

          • The Raven

            Hi Jaime. I think we’re going to be very surprised at who is along side us and who’s not. The war and all the ills that it drags in its wake will test us even before the eighth king rises. We will have to endure a lot but there is comfort in knowing Jehovah will help us along.
            There is also the fact that we know who wins in the end. 🙂

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