I see Satan already fallen like lightning from Heaven

//I see Satan already fallen like lightning from Heaven

There is a saying that the first casualty of war is the truth. How true that is. Virtually every war in modern history has been ignited with so-called false flag operations and patriotic propaganda. Now with instantaneous communications and everyone in possession of a personal camera, it is possible to propagandize masses of people very quickly.

Thus, in the span of a few days the President of the United States went from saying that the President of Syria could stay, to ordering the cruise missile barrage of a Syrian military base and setting in motion a scheme to remove Assad from office. What caused this sudden reversal of policy?

Apparently, scenes of dead and dying children —victims of a poison gas attack. Of course, the cameras were rolling as the victims were taken to the hospitals and morgues.

With no investigation politicians in Europe and the US, along with their media minions, immediately blamed the president of Syria. How could there be any doubt? The missiles were flying a few hours later.

The hypocrisy of the media is nauseating, as just a few weeks earlier the US bombed the Iraqi city of Mosul, killing over 200 civilians, many of them being children. It was described as the worst civilian atrocity in a quarter of a century. It passed by with a shrug.

Aftermath of US attack on Mosul

But going back to the illegal attack on Iraq based on the phony reports that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, the ongoing disaster the United States and NATO have set into motion in 2003 has resulted in over one-million deaths and tens of millions of displaced persons, many of whom have been radicalized by the atrocities and are now flooding into Europe.

Now, as if to up the ante, Russia is being investigated as to their possible involvement in the poison gas attack. Clearly, Russia has been the target all along. Or rather, the City of London is desperate to prevent any alliance of America, Russia and China, which is/was in the works. But why is Syria obviously targeted for destruction?

Apparently the geo-political strategists of the Anglo Empire have determined that in order to cripple the Iranian and Russian economies Europe must receive its oil and natural gas supplies from Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which requires pipelines to transverse Syria. You may be certain that the children of Syria do not factor into the equation, at all. Somehow, it is always about oil —the lifeblood of modern civilization, such as it is.

But there is another factor to consider. As Jehovah’s Witnesses well know, there are higher powers and authorities than mere humans. Jesus taught very plainly that the Devil, whom he referred to as “the wicked one,” is the ruler of the world. Jesus also declared that Satan is the original liar and murderer. The fact that the world is influenced by a master deceiver and mass killer certainly explains a lot.

However, there is, yet, another aspect to consider as to where we stand at this present moment in time. Though human history is one long, bloody tale of woe and sorrow due to the fact it is ruled over by a wicked god, the Devil’s rulership is not supreme, nor is it permanent. While men may suppose that they rule the chessboard by their own hand, humans are merely knights, bishops, rooks and pawns in a universal contest. The real movers are superhuman. And the God of gods —Jehovah God —has already demonstrated his mastery by revealing the outcome of the contest from long, long ago.

Disciples report their activity to JesusJesus once sent out 70 of his disciples, who had only had a few months of training under his tutelage, with the message to declare that the Kingdom of the heavens had drawn near. Jesus empowered them to perform healing and expel the demons. When the disciples returned from their original missionary assignment and reported to their master that the demons had in fact been made subject to them, the account says that Jesus became overjoyed and exclaimed: “I see Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven. Look! I have given you the authority to trample underfoot serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing at all will harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice because the spirits are made subject to you, but rejoice because your names have been written in the heavens.”

Jesus was not saying that Satan had been exiled from heaven at that time. We know that could not be the case since the book of the disclosure of the things that must shortly take place —Revelation, which was written long after Jesus had departed the earth —envisions the overthrow of Satan from heaven occurring as an immediate consequence of the coming to power of the Kingdom of Christ. What Jesus meant was, that because the disciples had been given authority over the demons, it was not only a demonstration of Jehovah’s power, but a guarantee that the little flock would ultimately attain the Kingdom the Father had promised and that Satan would be crushed under their feet in the future, as Paul indicated in the 16th chapter of Romans.

So, while we can only see and hear what takes place in the visible world, there is an unseen world that is at war. And the enmity between Christ and Satan goes nuclear, no doubt literally, when war breaks out in heaven and Michael and his angels overthrow the Devil and his angels. Satan’s ouster initiates a period of time known in the Scriptures as the time of the end, or the conclusion. During that short period of time the world over which Satan rules will be subjected to a catastrophe unlike anything that has ever occurred before or will ever occur again.

Although we cannot see Satan literally falling from heaven, we can see the effect his ouster will have on earth. The prophecy of Daniel foretells that in the time of the end the kings of the north and south will engage in a pushing and the king of the north will flood over all the nations. That symbolic flood brings the king of the south under subjection to the empire, effectively putting an end to democracy. Similarly, the eighth chapter of Daniel depicts a fierce looking king who keeps throwing truth to the earth (war propaganda) and who will ultimately bring to ruin the mighty ones of this world along with the prospective heirs of the Kingdom.

Contrary to the delusion propagated by the Watchtower, these earthshaking events are in our future. But it should not be supposed that it is the distant future.

Without taking the spiritual aspect into consideration, people naturally assume that rational minds will prevail. After all, even the most zealous war hawks have children and families. They surely know that provoking war with Russia and China will quickly escalate into a nuclear conflagration. Back during the Cold War the knowledge of mutually assured destruction, known as MAD, was the official policy that is credited with preventing the unthinkable from occurring. But human thinking fails to take into consideration that the maddened demons have no such constraints. They know they are facing oblivion. Ought they care if a few billion humans are destroyed in their rampage?

The fact that the frenzied pounding of the drums of war become louder with each passing day and men seem determined to provoke war on multiple fronts, and the looming, seemingly unavoidable confrontation, involves nations possessing the most powerful weapons ever devised, which, excluding the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atrocities, have never been used in warfare, we may not be too far off the mark to assume that Satan has already fallen like lightning from heaven.

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2017-04-08T10:30:09+00:00 April 8th, 2017|Page One|382 Comments
  • Burt Reynolds

    Doom Defeat and Dispair, Floods Fire and Famine. So said Snoopy. I’m pretty sure it’s Genesis was in Shakespeare though. It reminds me of Paul Robson singing Ol’ Man River…..’I’m tired of livin’ and scared of dyin’ but ol’ man river, he jus keeps rollin’ along.’ Sounds better than the clash and ‘should I go or should I stay’ anyway.

  • brother robert my thinking is along the same lines as your article but it puzzles me a bit at times why so many can clearly see what is going on but they simply ignore it? is it out of fear or do they see the truth and just refuse it? i have met many people that i speak with about these days being the last days i repeat the scriptures to them i go over world current events and they agree yes things do look very bad and they ether shrug me off as if nope that wont happen or they bow and turn there heads with a sour face and say nothing as if a fear comes over them and they simply walk away.

  • Sam Knight

    Sorry I’m a little off topic. Just a question on Isaiah 17:1,14.
    I’ve come across posts stating that the prophecy against Damascus hasn’t been fulfilled because it still remains as a city today. It’s just that with the current situation in syria I find verse 14 quite an eyebrow raiser. Any thoughts on this?

    • Sam Knight

      Cough…

    • Sam Knight

      *clears flem

  • Francis Bencharles

    I believe you are correct that there is evidence all around us that suggests that Satan may already have been thrown out of the heavens as described in Revelation 12. What evidence? Almost universal surveillance is what! Satan used to have a heavenly view of the earth with his angelic powers to boot. But, if he has been evicted from heaven, he lacks both of those advantages. So what’s a demon to do in this case? One answer is to take over the power of the worldwide surveillance system and beef it up to the point where you know as much about anyone and everyone as you can. Jesus is about to come with “his angels” to do battle and Satan will need any advantage that he can get. The police state is in order I think because Satan is not dumb (super evil, but not dumb) and he knew that he would 1 day be evicted from heaven and confined to the earth as a demoniacally possessed human (along with his fellow demons), so he prepared the police state surveillance system for this time.

    When Jesus does appear, I’m pretty sure Satan will have a welcoming committee waiting for him and we will see the effects of that welcoming committee when he uses the nuclear weapons that have been stockpiled for this very reason. Who knows what other types of weapons Satan has made ready for his welcoming of his arch enemy Christ. The fireworks are about to be lit, I think. You nailed it Robert, great job!

    • Sam Knight

      Haha great comment. That’d make a good Sci fi movie. Here’s another one..
      The tunguska event was Satan being hurled out of heaven. He then entered Rasputin and set about making mischief which resulted in the overthrow of the royal family.

      • Francis Bencharles

        Nice!

        • Sam Knight

          Yup. He then entered Mick Jagger and wrote a song about it.

          • Francis Bencharles

            Hi Sam:

            ” So after dipping the bread, he took it and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Is·carʹi·ot. 27 After Judas took the piece of bread, then Satan entered into him.+ So Jesus said to him: “What you are doing, do it more quickly.” John 13:26,27

            So, Sam, who did Jesus say those words to Judas or Satan? I say Satan who had possessed Judas legally because Judas had Satan’s seed in his heart and was not the spiritual property of Jehovah’s who owns those who he adopts as a Son. So, if you are adopted by Jehovah to be a part of Jesus Bride you cannot be possessed by a demon or anything else. However, Judas was not so adopted, so he was free to be possessed.

            So, up to the point that Judas took the bread (that was dipped into whatever goo was in the bowl at the time) Judas was himself. After eating the bread he was possessed by Satan himself.

            Also, in Luke 22… ” And the chief priests and the scribes were looking for an effective way to get rid of him,(Jesus)+ because they were afraid of the people.+ 3 (((Then Satan entered into Judas,))) the one called Is·carʹi·ot, who was numbered among the Twelve,+ 4 and he ((Satan in Judas)) went off and talked with the chief priests and temple captains about how to betray him to them.+ 5 They were delighted at this and agreed to give him ((Satan in Judas)) silver money.+ 6 So he consented and began looking for a good opportunity to betray him to them without a crowd around.

            Sam, it was Satan who possessed Judas that made the arrangements with the chief priests and scribes to betray Jesus and they gave Satan the thirty pieces of silver as Satan’s price for the betrayal.

            “Then Judas ((not said to be possessed by Satan)), his betrayer, seeing that Jesus had been condemned, FELT REMORSE and brought the 30 pieces of silver back to the chief priests and elders,+ 4 saying: “I sinned when I betrayed innocent blood.” They said: “What is that to us? You must see to it!”* 5 So he threw the silver pieces into the temple and departed. Then he went off and hanged himself.” Matthew 27: 3-5

            Judas was not an adoptied Son of God and was a thief and had the seed of Satan in his heart, but he still felt regret for betraying Jesus and i think he was confused because he actually didn’t experience the betrayal, Satan did. Matthew 27: 3-5

            Clearly, Satan would not feel remorse, so when that was said Satan had clearly left the possession of Judas as he was finished using him. It also proves that Judas was not an adoptied Son of God (anointed) and did not sin against the Holy Spirit because he was never with the Spirit in the first place. if he was and sinned against the Holy Spirit according to God’s Word would not be able to repent of such a sin.

            ” For as regards those who were once enlightened+ and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit 5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things,* 6 but have fallen away,+ (((it is impossible to revive them again to repentance))), because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.+” Hebrews 6:4-6

            Demon possession is no joke and we will all find that out during the “conclusion of the system of things” when it happens on earth again like it did during Jesus Ministry in the first Century. WE think it’s silly because we’ve never seen the real thing but that will not be true very soon.

            • Max

              I’ve never thought of Judas being possessed by Satan as you put it. It’s a very interesting point. How could that be possible though? So you are saying that Judas was not anointed? So what about the man of lawlessness in the WT? Are they pretending to be anointed then? I think Satan can enter into anybody anointed or not because all depends in the way they safeguard their hearts from Satanic influence. Judas did not have a good heart. He was stilling so probably he had no or little faith Jeus was the messiah.

            • Francis Bencharles

              Hi Max: Read John 6 very closely, especially near the end. Jesus knew that Judas was not anointed by Jehovah, but chose him to fulfill the scriptures about Jesus being betrayed etc. Jehovah draws the truly anointed ones to the true faith of the presence in order for them to be a part of Jesus Bride. The parents in the Jewish system chose their children’s marriage partners. It is weird to us but not to them. If Judas were anointed then he would be the property of Jehovah. The patriarch of the family was considered the owner of all his progeny. If Jehovah owns you then no one else can use you for any purposes without the permission of the owner, Jehovah. Do you think Jehovah would allow one of his Son’s to be used for such an awful purpose. But an un-anointed person who lacks faith (which Judas clearly did as Jesus points out in John 6.

              The man of lawlessness is the anti-typical fulfillment of Judas in this presence of the Christ. They may actually think they are anointed or may have convinced themselves that they are but they are not. Jesus said he would not lose one of the ones that Jehovah had given him (that Jehovah drew to Jesus) so therefore they cannot be anointed if Jehovah did not draw them to Jesus, but like Judas just came on their own to fulfill modern day prophecy. Any clearer. Read John 6 very closely.

            • Francis Bencharles

              Max: Let’s be clear about something. I am not saying that all the people who claim to be anointed in the Watchtower are not anointed. The only place that the anointed are at this time are in the Watchtower or in it’s symbolic prisons (have left but have not defiled themselves by joining a false church or starting their own, or have been dis-fellowshipped unjustly by the Watchtower and have not defiled themselves with spiritually symbolic women by becoming a part of a false church that is not the Watchtower). But those that represent Judas in the Watchtower whether on the Governing Body or not are definitely NOT anointed. I am not saying this, God’s Word is. They may be convinced that they are, but they are not. They are devils or slanderer’s. This will come out very clearly at the coming of the Christ and the revelation of the true Bride of Christ.

            • Burt Reynolds

              If Satan possessed judas, then is judas responsible for his actions? Luke 22:3-6 says that Satan entered into judas, but I have always considered this to be referring to judas deliberately choosing the wrong course and not possession per se. Judas was chosen by Jesus, personally, as one of the apostles. I understand that judas was annointed…or in line to be….had the opportunity to be….and that he decided of himself to betray Christ, as could any annointed person chose to do evil. However, why would Satan wish to expedite the death of Christ as if this was achieved, Satan would be doomed? Surely Satan would be seeking to prolong the life of Christ to seek further opportunity for him to sin. Once Christ was dead as a perfect person, Satan was as good as dead. The natural inclination of judas was said to be thievery and Jesus told him so…this was when judas complained about Mary ‘wasting’ money on anointing Jesus. What is likely in my opinion, and I may be wrong, is that judas had the inclinations useful to Satan and that he chose this course of action. Satan is more likely to encourage sinners to sin more, than try to persuade the committed righteous to do so. Which is most likely to succeed? When Jesus was tempted by Satan, Satan tempted him with bread…ergo, don’t die, eat and live, have a kingdom, take the easy life as ruler of the world. Why would he want him dead as a perfect being? He wanted him dead as an imperfect person. But I’ve just been reading up on this subject out of curiosity over your comment, thus showing knowledge I don’t have a right to. I suggest that Kevin or Robert would give you greater, more substantial insight. It’s far more important that you satisfy yourself rather than take others opinion as correct.

    • Burt Reynolds

      There is no chance that Satan would be able to use the surveillance systems around the globe. No one is going to sell him a phone, let alone a computer and as far as the pentagon and GCHQ are concerned, the background checks are very thorough. He will never get past security. You also have to have a home address and a bank account and pay by direct debit. That’s not going to happen as Satan does not even have a social security number, let alone a green card, passport or work permit. His only hope is to get into one of the satellites used for mapping and spying. I think that is far more likely, although there are no toilet facilities on board. It is possible though that his demons will spread out round the globe and report back via telepathy or google, failing which, I think the pope and the arch bishop of Canterbury will be able to lend him a hand. Even with this help, central Africa, Mongolia and southern Siberia will literally be a godsend as there is little if any communication facilities there though I think there is a closed circuit camera in the Timbuktu McDonald’s. Those are the places to go if you wish to avoid Satan spying on you…not even Satan would go to a McDonald’s and central Africa would give him a good schooling in evil. So no luck there either.

      • Francis Bencharles

        Very entertaining Burt as always.

      • Francis Bencharles

        The Bible tells us that the Kingdom is going to come to power without striking observableness Burt, correct? In Luke it says…”On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming,+ he answered them: “The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness; 21 nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.”*+ Luke 17:20,21

        Now, in Revelation 12:9b the Bible says…”he was hurled down to the earth,+ and his angels were hurled down with him.” To clarify the situation the Bible further says…”“Now have come to pass the salvation+ and the power and the Kingdom of our God+ and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!” Revelation 12:10b

        So, if the Kingdom is not going to come with striking observableness neither will the casting down to the earth of Satan because if you can hear or see Satan being cast down or feel his presence because of the things he does then you would know that the Kingdom is in effect by observing the things happening cause the scripture says “Now have come to pass the salvation, and the power and the Kingdom of our God” when Satan was cast down to the earth.

        Unless you are blind or deaf or don’t read the Watchman’s writings (which I know you aren’t and do, as you clearly are an intelligent man) you can’t help but see that the devil and his demons are here. But it won’t be until you see all the things happening that Jesus outlined in Matthew 24 and other places that you will know for sure that he is here (Satan & Jesus for that matter). But since Satan is on earth and he is no longer an angel (since if he was an angel still he would not be bounded by space and could leave the confines of earth’s dimension and return to his own) he is now a human whom he and his demon angels have possessed like they did in the first century (because you have to live in some sort of body, whether that be angelic, human or divine). Only this time they are playing it incognito here on earth. (That’s what being cast down to the earth is Burt) Unlike in the first century Satan cannot just come and go from the earth as he pleases because he no longer has the angelic powers he once had over space because that’s how God confines him to earth by taking away his angelic body)( I don’t mean outer space, I mean power over moving from our dimension to his old dimension in the heavens).

        “So woe for the earth because the devil has come down to you knowing he has a short period of time” (three and a half years from Revelation 13:5) When Satan had his angelic body he could come into our space/time whenever he wished and leave whenever he chose like he did in Job’s time and in the first Century. He is no longer wanted in heaven (the space/time of the angels and God) so his ability to go there has been limited by confining him here in our space/time. I think Jehovah did that by taking away his angelic body and forcing him to possess a human who already had a demonic way about them and were not in a salvation covenant with God (who cannot be possessed since they are God’s children)

        So, if you were an angel and you knew that at some time in the future you would be confined to earth as a human who would you make plans to possess? The guy working in the water treatment plant or the one selling ice cream out of a truck? Or, would you plan to possess the one not only with the real power on earth but the ones who have acccess to and authority over the system of things? That’s my guess that Satan and his Demons have possessed the ones that they need to bring the earth to subjection when they unleash the powers of hell on the earth very shortly (you can feel it can’t you?) I can!

        So, look for the clouds that Jesus said he would be coming on. It is Satan that will cause those clouds, as the clouds will be his welcoming party for Christ’s coming (which he knows is coming soon, he can read the Bible and he knows he had 3 1/2 years from his casting out and he knows when he was cast out. The battle is going to be fierce, but it is also going to be relatively short. We both know who the victor will be.

        • Sam Knight

          Thats quite an amazing comment Francis! I’m not necessarily agreeing with it. Nor can I disprove it. But I’m sure as hell hanging around for a counter argument in the hope that one appears.

        • Sam Knight

          And yes that also reminds me of the jewish idiom “where the eagles (vultures) gather..

          • Francis Bencharles

            Sorry if you feel left out, but my comment to Burt is really to the whole board. There are more details that were left out of the first comment. Perhaps this will also sound like “science fiction”, I don’t know. Read what i have to say, meditate on it and then decide for yourself whether it is bs or may have a little merit to it. You make these ambiguous comments that I am not sure how to take or don’t completely understand. Make it a little easier for me and I will be more specific in trying to answer you personally. Just as Robert is not trying to draw disciples after himself from the Watchtower or anywhere else, neither am I whether it appears that way or not. I have no interest in having disciples in the slightest and have been quite successful in that desire thus far. I have never claimed and am not claiming now that i am an anointed member of Christ’s Bride, just so that’s also out of the way.

            I am simply an aged version (61.5) of a young 19 year old boy, young-man, whatever that swooned away in love with God and his Son as a blossoming teenager. My first meeting that was my spiritual awakening was the Memorial of Christ’s death in Bensalem Kingdom Hall in Pennsylvania in 1976. The speaker was Wim Arnoldesson (a Dutch brother who emigrated to the U.S. in the early 60’s but who still had a strong Dutch accent to his English) whom I grew to love as a brother although Wim was at least 15 or 20 years my elder. The last time I heard, Wim was an Elder in a Russian speaking congregation in the northeast area of Philadelphia, PA.

            I grew up in a normal lower middle class family with three brothers and one sister (the oldest) all of whom have a love for God and Christ but never chose to follow my faith into the JW’s for various reasons. We were non-practicing Catholics as opposed to the “strict Catholics” that were just as non-practicing but were more religiously partisan. For me (at least at age 19 and after) my love of God was never an infatuation but was always a strong, deep love. I was baptized in February 1977 and remained a Witness until I could no longer remain one in 2006. I no longer viewed them as God’s blessed organization which I know is different than Robert feels and how most here feel.

            I could no longer be a part of an organization that more than tolerates the free reign of child molesters in their midst that they do not even inform parents of, and I was totally demoralized and disgusted when I found out through reading e-watchman.com as well as other websites that the Watchtower had spiritual intercourse with the U.N., not once nor a casual daliance, but a nearly 10 year period of regular fornication and to my knowledge have never repented of this sinful activity. Also my learning of persons who also had left the Watchtower but still had a strong love for God and Christ. Most were DF’d for Apostasy for having the guts to do what God commanded them to do in his word the Bible. That is to love God with your whole heart, mind, soul and spirit and to love your neighbor as yourself. He did not say that we were to love God with our local elders mind, or the mind of the Governing Body “the Faithful Slave”. No, it says that we should love God with OUR whole minds etc. Yes, when you do this you can be wrong much of the time, but aren’t the Governing Body wrong more often than right?

            That’s the problem. The Watchtower has been dis-fellowshipping and causing the DA’ion of some of their best talent, Robert being one along with probably many others. Some to a lesser degree of course. The point is that they do not want the competition. This is exactly why they have not had a decent new teaching in 40-60 years. So what, an idea that a brother/sister sends in is no good and clearly not the truth. Write him a letter and commend his/her desire to satisfy that command of God and inform them why it’s not usable at this time or tell them areas of the idea that you might use in the future if you see it more clearly.

            Robert did not set out to supplant the leader’s of the Watchtower in any fashion if I am correct in that assumption. He is just a very zealous Bible Student who fell headlong in love with the prophecies in God’s Word that clearly the WT can use some help with. So, what do they do? Do they help cultivate that love in him? No, They DF him and treat him as if he has Typhoid fever and is highly contagious. I am sure that he is not the only one they have done this to. I have never sent an idea to the society because I know that they will circular file it even if they never even read it. I will leave that job to others, as I know I will never get a reply.

            So, i say this to inform you and others that I am simply a nearly 62 year old man who has no ulterior motives for being here except to share ideas that I think you may like, or not. If I disagree with something you say or write or anyone else does, please do not take offense as none was meant. If I sound like I think I know it all, please forgive me, that is my love and zeal for God getting the best of me. I truly have no intention of sounding like that but apparently I do from the return comments that I have gotten at times.

            I had to get that off my chest. I hope I have not offended anyone with my comment. i look forward to seeing all my old friends in the “Truth” and to the meeting of many new ones in the Kingdom of God. I miss my JW friends with all my heart even if they don’t miss me. I well up with tears just typing these words.

            I consider some of the people on this board my friends even if they don’t view me that way. Some have had written nice comments to me, some rather harsh, but I have a thick skin and my motto has always been, if your going to dish it out, you have to be able to take it as well and do my best never to take harsh comments to heart. it’s easier to forget them if you do not take them to heart.

            Tell me a little about yourself Sam and/or anyone else who reads this and would like to do the same.

            Your Christian brother Frank

            • Sam Knight

              There is one thing about the faith of Jehovahs witnesses that I do love.
              They stood up against the poisonous idealologies of fascism and communism whilst the vatican disgracefully prostituted itself. They are a despicable disgrace. The false agents they send out (jesuits) are modern day equivalents of Judas. Despicable men. Of their father satan.

            • Francis Bencharles

              I remember reading the olive green book about the (I had to pause and interupt a possible fight between my cat and a fox, yes I actually saw the fox as it was only about 20 feet away and ran away when it saw me) experiences of the witnesses in Germany during the WWII. I agree that Jehovah’s Witnesses have shown enormous faith in the 20th and 21st Centuries. Although you are correct, the vatican is an abomination, there are some very faithful people there as well. Yes, they may never have been in the situations that JW’s have found themselves but many had faith enough to give their lives for someone else and even the Bible says that that is the greatest form of love. Jesus willfully gave his life when he could have taken it back so there is no comparing that gift of love, but there are still very loving and faithful people in false religions too. I now consider JW’s a false religion when at one time I knew they were the people of God. They left that title behind when they committed their so far un-repentant sin with the U.N. Jehovah would have forgiven them and he still will if they only repent with a true heart and spirit. I fear though that most won’t who are in a position to. Nice thought Sam

              Frank

            • L.H.

              Hello brother, I never took offense from your comments from the beginning.
              Because you’re not attacking anyone.
              You have your own unique way to look at things, and to me your love for Jehovah & Jesus, and righteoussness was/ is obvious.
              In fact, it makes me sad to see harsh comments, but that shows we have a lot to learn in how to act as a Christian.
              Take care brother.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              So true..we have a long way to go and still a lot to learn …Jesus want us to be humble kind and loving more than anything else…we are supposed to wash others feet He even washed Judas feets …are we better than Him?(Jesus)

            • Beverly kenyon

              You’re right Arvid and so is LH. It was only last night I read that account as I’m reading the book of John at the moment and as usual I’m transported back to those times when I’m reading, it becomes very real to me and when I read that account I was wondering what was going through Judas’ mind when Jesus did that loving, humble act, did he feel any regret, remorse or was he play acting to hide his true intentions. I’ve always felt a bit of pity for Judas as he was completely used by the Devil based on being greedy, materialistic and weak despite his free will but the Devil on the other hand I hate with a vengeance and I know Jehovah doesn’t like for us to gloat regarding our enemies demise but surely it’s justifiable when you look at how he’s murdered a whole world! Can I just say Thank You Arvid for inspiring me to read the book of John when you were discussing the memorial and it feels so fresh reading this book, like I’ve never read it before, very vivid, I can’t get enough of reading this book!

            • Richard Long

              Maybe my problem is that at this moment in time, I’m just about all hated out. Er… except the self hate. Got lots of that!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Lol. That’s funny…all hated out! You and Burt are real ‘wordsmiths’ Richard. It’s unrealistic to waft about ‘loving’ everything in this horrible world and they’ll be lots of things we hate but as for self hate, I can beat you hands down at that Richard cos everyday I hate myself and I have an internal battle going on and it’s so draining! Think that’s what you meant by your post. Btw, I don’t hate you as I think you’re a brilliantly clever and smart funny guy and it’s great to read what you have to say. Absolutely love it!

            • Richard Long

              And I really took your expression of hatred for the adversary to heart. I know we serve ourselves and Jehovah best if we hate what is bad and love what is good. As stated before: EQUILIBRIUM TO RESUME…. STARTING NOW!
              ……

              STARTING NOW!
              ……

              STARTING…

              Oh, I need a nap!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Don’t take that to heart Richard, the adversary is a murdering self seeking scumbag, he knocks me sick! Yeah, it’s a good thing to reboot our balance in this world followed by a nap then you feel zippie dee doo dah! You can take on anything after that…..bring it!

            • im angry a often and lately very grumpy person. just so hate this system i live in and forced to deal with.
              im very snappy lately; bite heads off and i feel bad cause its mot me. cant wait till the birds feast and remove evil and peace is all that remains

            • Richard Long

              I feel ya!

            • L.H.

              That is an interesting thing about Jesus washed Judas feet!
              There is a scripture, wich says something like :”Keep overcome evil with the good”.
              Sometimes we can feel powerless to do good things for others ,or the kingdom, but maybe we’ve got the task to overcome evil with good.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Ditto LH.

            • Francis Bencharles

              Thanks L.H. but I don’t take offense at comments, no matter how harsh they might be. They are just expressing their opinions and if that’ what they truly think then that’s what they should say and comment. Words don’t hurt me. I know how I feel about the scriputes. If someone can straighten me out about something I have wrong, I’ll certainly thank them eventually.

        • nothing says Satan is no longer to be a spirit and made human after being cast down. why do you make up crap and embarrasse yourself? you make yourself out to be like Hananiah. you make good points but then ruin your comments with baloney

          • Francis Bencharles

            Hi D.A.: You are correct, it does not say that Satan was made human after being cast out of heaven. Jehovah does not include every detail in accounts and wants us, or allows us to use our “minds” or brains to fill in the details.

            Your brain does that with your vision. When you look at someone or something you have narrow vision that focuses and you have peripheral vision that is not in sharp focus. Well people who study such things have discovered that your eyes don’t actually see everything that appears in the periphery of your vision. Your brain uses data from past sight to “fill in” the areas not supplied by your eyes to fill in the blanks in your “total” vision.

            When I say this about Satan, I am not attempting to add to scripture because I am saying flat out that the periphery explanation is what I have added to the sharp focus of what is actually in the Bible. I do this much like your brain adds peripheral vision to your sight. I use my brain to “reason” on the scriptures.

            Now let’s look at what it actually says in God’s Word D.A., OK?

            “So down the great dragon+ was hurled, the original serpent,+ the one called Devil+ and Satan,+ who is misleading the entire inhabited earth;+ he was hurled down to the earth,+ and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
            “Now have come to pass the salvation+ and the power and the Kingdom of our God+ and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!” Revelation 12:9,10

            It does not say that he was hurled “out of heaven” but it is surely implied. What it says is that Satan was “hurled down to the earth”. Now reason on this! Was he hurled down to earth, but got up, dusted himself off and went right back up to heaven to fight round two? No, it does not. Does it even suggest that Satan has the ability to come and go as he pleases? No, it does not.

            Now if you read Job chapter one we can see that Satan clearly had the ability to come and go from heaven to earth and from earth right back to heaven when he had to report for instructions or whatever they did at that time. So its clear from what’s written that he could go back and forth.

            Is this same thing present in the account in Revelation or any account in the Bible that talks about this battle. Surely there is not.

            I think therefore that I can postulate that since it is not said specifically like it does say in other accounts in the Bible, that Satan cannot come and go from the earth back to heaven when he so pleases. Reasonable assumption? I think so, you may disagree.

            So, what exactly does Satan do that is actually written in God’s word and needs no supposition? It does actually say: “On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them!”…..”because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”+ Does it sound like he is able to return to heaven should he so wish? It doesn’t really say either way but the Bible certainly “suggests” it by what it does say. If Satan were permitted to return to the heavens what would be the sense of proclaiming “be glad you heavens” because the joy would certainly be short and it would seem that that expression of joy by the angels lacks power and we know by the teaching of Jesus that every word and every particle of God’s Word has power and meaning, even when it’s not actually said straight out. If he was able to get up and just come right back up to the heavens then there would be little “glad” being had by the angels, it just doesn’t make any scriptural sense that he could go back..

            But again, what does Satan do and what does this suggest? ” Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth,+ it persecuted the woman+ who gave birth to the male child. vs 13.

            Why did he do this? It does not actually say, but we could reason that Satan said to himself “self! Jesus just whooped my behind, and I’m supposing that I can’t go back there so I’ll busy myself doing what I can do, I think I’ll try to at least rough up his kin here on earth”. Now I know that is not written, but does it fit with what “is” written?

            Watchman does this all the time in unfolding God’s prophecy to us here on this board. It’s not adding to the scripture if you clearly acknowledge that it is your interpretation of what would have been said if it were God’s will that it be said. it’s called reading between the lines. Satan knows he is “confined” to the earth or it would say that he is not and not “imply” that he is.

            Now how on earth could Jehovah make sure that he cannot come back into the angelic realm?

            Let’s examine what the Bible does say and then extrapolate that information and see how Jehovah “may” have accomplished this. Let’s look at 1 Corinthians 15: 42-45.

            “42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption.+ 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory.+ It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power.+ 44 It is sown ((a physical body)); it is ((raised up a spiritual body)). If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.”*+ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.+”

            So, even though we are “sown” a physical body it is possible and scriptural to “become” “raised up” a spiritual body. Why is this necessary? It is necessary because “But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.” 1 Cor. 15:50

            In the context of the preceding verses we can see that “flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven” so all Jehovah has to do is take away his incorruptible spirit “body” that his spirit of life from God dwells in and he cannot possibly go back to the heavens. It is impossible, unless he is made incorruptible again, which I think is highly doubtful.

            All Jehovah has to do is reverse the process described in vss 42-45 and make Satan have to continue living not in his incorruptable spiritual body, but to have to seek out a physical body to possess, like Satan did with Judas in the first Century, and the lesser demons did with lesser humans.

            It’s an easy point if you just give it some thought. When Jehovah created Adam he breathed into Adam the “breath or spirit of life” and he became a living soul”.
            So, breath or spirit of life plus a body (whether physical or spiritual) equals a living soul.

            The breath of life or the spirit of life cannot go on living for any long period of time without entering into a “soul” or “body”. That soul can be a “physical body” or a “spiritual body”. If it is a physical body you are a living human. If it is a spiritual body you are or have become an angelic or spiritual body. It’s easy, peezy.

            When Satan and his demons were thrown down to heaven they lost use of their previous spiritual bodies. This is simply the reverse of the process explained in 1 Cor. 15: 42-45 for when humans trade in (in death) their human bodies for spiritual ones (if they have been chosen by Jehovah for such a privilege. And just like they did when thrown out of a demon possessed body in the first century that they were possessing, when they were cast down to the earth they looked for the person they had planned to possess when they were thrown, but while they were still angels and they possessed them as quickly as they could in order not to go to Gehenna. If they were not good planners while angels then who or what knows where they went and possessed to become a living human or animal soul? They would rather be a powerful human or a lowly animal than be in Gehenna as they aptly showed in the first century.

            Chew on that a while and see how it tastes. When you are a human you are bounded by both time and space (you can only live into the future, and you can only go where a physical person can go, you can’t go to heaven or that dimension). When you are an angel or spirit you are only bounded by time (you cannot go backward in time, but you can go into this dimension and the dimension that spirits or angels live. When you are God, you are bounded by neither, you can go anywhere in time or space that you wish, your life is quantum.

            • “At that he said to them: “I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven.”

              you call it reading between the lines, i call it going beyond what is written.

              i dont discourage people from speculating but i do encourage
              that they reconize the difference between reading wrong into whats being said and reading between the lines.
              speculation is not fact.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Why, when Jehovah is so exacting in his standards, would ‘he want us to, or allow us to use our minds or brains to fill in details.’? Is it so that we are somehow in this time of the end, imbued with powers beyond our imagining to second guess the realm and dimensions of the spirit kingdom? Some who I doubt it. Frank is also ill informed to say that the human realm is bound in time, and that thus we would expect Satan, being in the vicinity of the earth to be likewise bound. What is not understood here is that even in this realm, time is relative to the beholder; that time differential slows the further you are from a single point of reference, and as such, you can or could actually see, physically, the past, the further you are from Earth. ( This was proven in 1967 by flying flying an atomic clock above the earth and comparing it to a stationary one on earth. Einstein first suggested this in 1921 using light reflected from a train to two different points using one observer. However, an everyday example is that the light you see now, left the sun 7 minutes ago! Thus everything you see is actually in the past) The fact that we cannot get so far from earth to experience this for ourselves visually is neither here nor there. The law still exists. Frank quotes quantum theory as his basis for belief, but he is incorrect. Quantum theory refers to a measure of energy in relation to the radiation value it is emits and as such, does not merit the inferred relevance he gives it in terms of a physical representation of Satan in a bodily form. Your explanation is the right one if I may say so, in that you say not to add or take away from the scripture. We naturally look for meaning, signs, but when we stop at a red traffic light sign, we would be silly to say to ourselves it represents anything other than the need to stop. If you did….well we can figure out the carnage for ourselves.

            • its like this. in human terms.

              there is Jehovah.
              its always now.
              existing stuff moves. (some faster then others)
              the end.

              if you want to go backward or forward then you must move the existing stuff back or forward as it is still always now.

              if the date was 1930 then later as things moved around to the date 2017 and you want to ‘go back in time’ to 1930 again, then you have to move everything back to the same position it was at during the date of 1930.

              take off your watch and dont rely on the sun & earth position relative to each other then ask yourself what time is it? you would have to use some reference in its position. for example, that guys eating a hanburger. that would be the time it was to the time relitive when he is done eating it. if you want to go back in time then you have to regurgitate every molecule of that hanburger and the guy eating it and the air he brrathed and everything back to the position when he was eating it. the words ‘back in time’ is a misleading term in the minds of people to get the concept

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s a difficult subject to get around I agree. I’m no different. But it is not that the events change, or are reversed that explains relativity. It is in fact, the perspective of the person viewing it. The Hubble telescope for instance, shows events today, that happened eons ago, yet still we are moving through time as we view them! So we are actually looking at events of the past as they occurred then. I don’t grasp anything more than that, I assure you, but then I did not make the law. Jehovah did. One might assume that as the law maker, Jehovah is outside of the law! As for me, I will continue to keep on the watch as you rightly point out I should do. I’m sure we will all find out these wonderful laws in due time. In the interim, I am at that wonderful stage in life where I no longer need a watch and I put them away some years ago, thankfully. Time is passing quickly enough as it is, without watching it. And that is an illusion as well!!!

            • my thoughts.

              “perspective of the person viewing it.”

              the moon fallows me wherever i go.

              im my own words.
              relativity is arranged position of objects in space. motion is changing position. position is where something is located. time is just a type of measurement by observation of the above.

              when only Jehovah exist, what time is it?

              my best answer, now.

              through the Hubble telescope we seen what is moving. how long* did it take? that is where time comes in. observing the constent, now.

              yeah in due time. ha

              we’r just kids

            • proverbs 1:4

            • wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=Discernment&p=par

            • Francis Bencharles

              Jesus saw this future event with his newly gained powers of perception through Holy Spirit.

            • yeah a non-existent future that did not happen yet that could be changed. just like i predict youre going to leave another comment here on e-Watchman in the near future. when Jehovah says something is going to be done then it will either because he or someone else causes it to accure and we can trust Jehovah discerning his own creation

            • Bklyn Kevin

              spec·u·la·tion
              ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
              noun
              noun: speculation; plural noun: speculations
              1.
              the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.”there has been widespread speculation that he plans to quit”
              2.
              investment in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain but with the risk of loss.”the company’s move into property speculation”
              https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c8/28/f2/c828f27e723fc6985a3ae817a896b54d.jpg

        • Burt Reynolds

          How on earth is Satan going to be able to work a remote or an iPad without the help of a child? It really is best to let the scriptures speak for themselves, rather than add conjecture, and the prophesy and understanding of the scriptures will reveal themselves in due course and not before. Maybe Satan has been thrown down already, maybe not. Robert only offers that we may not be far off the mark to suggest it. That is a skill in writing to make people think, not a statement of fact. Is Satan in a physical or spirit body? Who knows? who cares? The effect will be the same. Impatience and conjecture help no one, it only serves to disrupt away from what the scriptures do say. And we are ever only ready to understand that which we are given, by Jehovah, to understand. Better to absorb what we know is true….which is simple enough, than add to our own confusion and thus distract ourselves from our goal.

          • Francis Bencharles

            If you are happy with the gold and silver that you find on the surface of the ground so to speak, that is AOK with me. I like to really dig in and dig deep into the scriptures and have found by doing so that I have been richly blessed by my heavenly Father. Or, I’m simply deluding myself. I’m confident it’s the former, you may disagree and you are welcome to do so.

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Granted the Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness because the kingdom of GOD is already in our midst however people failed to recognize it just like they failed to recognize Jesus as the messiah so too many will fail to recognize the true sons of GOD when they do arrive because they took no note just like they took no note of Jesus when he arrived.

          Now although we know that the kingdom did not come whith striking observableness

          It doesn’t say that Satan and his regime would be ousterd quietly in fact if you read Revelations chapter six you’ll please take note it’s going to be quite noisy when Satan the devil and his demons get the big shiny book. I mean I hardly think that the apocalyptic horses are going to tiptoe around the earth. Revelation Read more>https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/revelation/6/

          Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”Revelation 12:12-A

          • lol tiptoe

          • Francis Bencharles

            I didn’t say nor imply that you won’t know of his ouster, but you won’t know that he has been ousted from heaven until he chooses to let us know by his welcomming of the Christ when we see Jesus coming on the clouds that Satan will make to welcome Jesus to earth with a bang or two.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Francis with brotherly love and all due respect I share these scriptures with you.

              James1:5-6.
              So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him.
              But let him keep asking in faith, not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about.

              Proverbs 2: 3-6.
              Moreover, if you call out for understanding And raise your voice for discernment;
              If you keep seeking for it as for silver,And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasure Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah, And you will find the knowledge of God. For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; From his mouth come knowledge and discernment.

            • Francis Bencharles

              Thanks for the good advice Kevin. I pray for wisdom from God all the time and so far he has heard my prayers and answered them in abundance. That’s good advice for any Bible student or researcher, thanks again. Proverbs 2 is one of my favorite scriptures. The silver and the gold in the scriptures is many times what is not actually said right out in the open, but what is mixed in with the dirt all around it.

          • Francis Bencharles

            Am I to conclude from your comment that you think that Revelation 6 has already started it’s fulfillment. I haven’t seen the evidence of that yet although I think be are very close to seeing it the way the warmongers seem to be getting their way lately. My point from Revelation 12 is when Satan is Kicked out of the heavens the Kingdom of God and Christ starts, so if you could tell that Satan has already been thrown down you could also conclude that the Kingdom had started to rule, at least in the heavens that is. From my research I think that Satan has already been hurled down but he will not announce that fact to the general populace or Bible researchers until the last minute when he starts to destroy things when he “welcomes” the coming of Jesus and the Angels. Jesus comes on the clouds and I think Satan makes those clouds by large explosions starting off WWIII.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              No Revelation chapter six has not begun the seals have not been open however that’s what watchtower is suggesting.

              Keep in Expectation – But in Expectation of What?
              Excerpt:
              Of course, the Watchtower will admit that the scenario that develops from the opening of the sixth seal symbolizes the events associated with the tribulation, but in their artifice Bethel still holds to the untenable notion that the sixth seal was unsealed back during the First World War. Supposedly the upheaval and distress concurrent with the war a century ago were merely preliminary temblors of a coming cataclysm. They have no choice but to teach such nonsense or else admit that none of the seals have been unsealed, which would be an admission that the entire 1914 parousia is a sham. Read more>
              https://e-watchman.com/keep-in-expectation-but-of-what/

              When was Jesus given the Kingdom?
              Excerpt:
              God did not confer the throne upon Jesus in 1914 for the simple reason that the Kingdom had already been given to him. Christ’s coming in the future is for the express purpose of asserting his power as the King. That is when all his enemies will become his footstool, as it were. Read more>
              https://e-watchman.com/when-was-jesus-given-the-kingdom/

            • just out of Curiosity how do you conclude that satan has already been cast down to earth?

            • Francis Bencharles
            • im trying to understand your logic

    • Richard Long

      Did you just state that Satan and his army will have to face the forces of Christ while confined to possessed human bodies?

      • Francis Bencharles

        They have already been squarely defeated in the angelic realm in spirit bodies. Why not have a go at him as a human. Might give Satan a new perspective of what he has actually done to mankind. I think Jesus will put a serious hurting on Satan and his demons or ” the Dragon”. I hope I can watch, don’t you?

        • Richard Long

          So, you are stating absolutely that the opening of the seven seals has commenced?

          • Francis Bencharles

            Tell me scriptually what you mean and I will attempt to give the best answer I have available. The angels were very happy to see Satan get his a** kicked.

            “On this account (((be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them!))) Woe for the earth and for the sea,+ because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”+” Revelation 12:12

            You don’t think there is going to be the greatest jubilation on earth that has ever been experienced when Satan and his Drag en are KOed and then sent to their prison for a long sentence? I do, and I will be ecstatic. You will too, if your faith holds out which I hope does for me as well..

        • Richard Long

          And, no. I am not interested in seeing the suffering of anyone, even our greatest enemy.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Absolutely true. We take no pleasure in the downfall of others. Of what benefit is it to us to hate our enemies? Jesus asked Jehovah to forgive those that know not what they do, and that is a principle we can all benefit from. Even those that are wicked, wilfully, yes, we are pleased to be relieved from their wickedness in due course, and be thankful for it, but the better for us to be pleased that their wickedness is no more than that a person has been led astray. Easy to say. More difficult to feel, but better that, than to act as they do.

          • i am. but i know what you mean to a very strong degee

            • Richard Long

              Right, DA. Obviously I will be overjoyed to be rid of the vile villain and his influence. I’ve just had my fill of the world’s ugliness, especially that which I have sen in myself. At this time at least, I would PREFER not to watch the event live. Maybe next week

            • yeah its exosting and system painful i dont care to see the wicked suffer but do want wicked slaughtered i do at the same time. hard to pur in words

          • Francis Bencharles

            The angels took delight when Satan was evicted from their space. Your telling me that when you feel in your boned that Satan’s influence is no longer here, that you won’t be doing the Teaberry Shuffle?

            • Richard Long

              {sigh}

            • Jamie Mac

              Francis, I have never of the Teaberry shuffle. What exactly is it, a Ragtime tune perhaps.

            • Francis Bencharles

              It was just a jingle for a T.V. and radio commercial in the States for a brand of chewing gum that was tea-berry flavor. “The tea-berry shuffle, da-da-da-diddy-da-da-da”, or something along those lines.

            • Jamie Mac

              I guess it didn’t make the number one spot in the music charts then 🙂

            • Francis Bencharles

              I am 61 and this was a jingle when I was in junior high school which at the time was grades 7-9 out to 12. It was actually a pretty popular commercial. It was lively and imaginative for the time. I suppose it sold a lot of packs of chewing gum at the time because the commercial survived for some time. I haven’t thought about the “tea-berry shuffle” in a long time.

            • Joseph of Aramathea
            • Francis Bencharles

              I’m glad you found this. I would never have thought it was still around, but I got a good laugh out of seeing this commercial again. Us psychiatric RN’s are easily entertained. Thanks J. of A.

            • Jamie Mac

              Joseph, if anyone would post some clips about the Teaberry shuffle, it would have to be you. How do you do it 🙂 One point though, Francis said it was an US advert. That guard looks like someone you would find outside Buckingham Palace in London.

              What a dreadful advert lol

            • im sure they will be “glad” or relieved too

        • France, Satan is a spirit creature.
          he is not going to be confined as a
          human creature. just drop that silly
          idea so you can move on. after the
          thousand years in abyss he will still
          be a spirit and put to death.

          • Francis Bencharles

            Your probably right D.A.

          • Jamie Mac

            Hey D.A You have such a unique way of commenting. I think your comments are refreshing and more than that you show a depth of knowledge and a love of Jehovah which I can learn from.

            • thanks. im just a human though, so cant put your trust in me. i cant even trust myself.

              i do love Jehovah in short. other times (usually after dealing with hard times and myself) i have to sit there and think about that and what that means to make sure i do because im not a very good person all the time and Jehovah knows. ha reminds me of that “Bo Knows” saying that turned out fun to use for a joke.

              Bo Knows, your mom.
              Bo Knows, what you did last summer.
              have you seen my car keys?
              Bo Knows, where you misplaced your car keys.. blah :p

            • Beverly kenyon

              Oh, DA, I do love this heartfelt post of your’s, only just saw it. It’s so real and human and it made feel happy and sad if you know what I mean and I recognised some of what wrote in myself. For some of us DA, it’s just the way our lives went but who cares about this life in this unequal world as we have our eyes on something far better than this world can offer.

    • Southern ShaSha

      Frank, you’ve got to stop. You of all people can recite scriptures word for word. As well you are very aware of the warning “to not go beyond what is written”. Do you ever reread what you post and what affect it may have on others. Particularly those new ones desperately searching for the truth, the real truth of God and His Son, just trying to make sense of the world and where Jehovah is in all this. On first glance for someone with little knowledge may look at your post as just another crank site. Again, Jesus gave some very vivid signs to watch for, we’re all capable to reason on what he showed as to the nearness of the Kingdom and the presence of Christ Jesus. Once again in another post you were so bold as to present dates. You slam Watchtower for their false pretense on prophesy, and yet this is exactly what you are doing. I have tried to direct several I care deeply for to join this site so that they to can come to greater knowledge of Jehovahs purpose and in turn gain love and faith and understand Jehovah never leads us astray or lies. We all need to check ourselves, how will this affect others, before we spout off!!!

      • Burt Reynolds

        Did you find your school desk ShaSha? Looks like we might be needing it soon judging by what Putin has said….did you read Roberts tweet? I’m building an extension to mine for Daisy.

        • Southern ShaSha

          Hi Burt

          Hi Burt, not yet, may have to step up the search! Yes my main source of news are the clips Robert provides. Putins stearn warnings seem to be falling on deaf ears.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Of course I’ll build you an extension ShaSha. I’ll add a library so that you can bring your bible and collection of Roberts writings, videos and Bloggs. Daisy has opted for the ball room and garage extension for her Rolls.

            • Jamie Mac

              wot about me, you left me out. Broken heart, sound of sobbing

            • Burt Reynolds

              Okay okay, I’ll add a cellar extension and an attic., just for you and yours, plus an en-suite.

        • Jamie Mac

          Burt, you are old enough to remember Anderson Shelters. Dead easy to assemble and even easier to fall apart.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Anderson shelters. Ha! Modern rubbish. When the zeppelins were coming over, we got out there and had a game of cricket while we waited. If it looked like we were going get a googly from gerry it was up to the batsman to knock it back where it came from. During the return match, we used the andersons as a coal cellar and sent mother up on the roof to bat back the incendiaries while we baked potatoes over a log fire in the garden while the children set too at the Hun with the 12 bore.

            • Jamie Mac

              ah yes, those were the days. Actually I was born in 56 lol.

              Burt you did not respond to my second more serious comment.

          • Southern ShaSha

            Well, suppose we could double reinforcement, crawl under our desks, that is you, me and Daisy. Burt being the gentleman we know he is can then build the Anderson Shelter around us! Oh, wait a minute that could leave poor Burt exposed. Sorry Burt! Bad idea!

          • Burt Reynolds

            Sorry….didn’t see that last bit. My understanding is that the cry of peace and security comes before any full scale war. The scripture says that people will be crying peace and security and (only then) will the end be instantly upon them. A supporting scripture to that would perhaps be that the end will come when nobody expects it. What better time than when everyone thinks we have staved off war and peace is here. It would be nice, having just had this altercation with Russia and the gathering of the eight nations to debate the issue, with the British consul on his way over to Russia today to present them with sanctions unless they withdraw support for matey in Syria …that the agree, say sorry and due for peace! But who knows? I have a feeling though that it will be a lot more pronounced than that! Everyone has to be in agreement/acknowledge there being peace and security, which may of itself, demand some greater altercation yet to demonstrate the difference….maybe a graphic exchange of blood on the ground, or at sea….sink the American aircraft carrier perhaps. I have absolutely no idea on how, only what the scriptures say. Everything you want, always costs more than you think, does it not?

            • Francis Bencharles

              Read in Daniel 7 about the fourth beast. It is repeated twice. That is the Beast that will be destroyed by the Kingdom of God but that’s not till after the Great Tribulation. They will be saying Peace and Security because they will have established a tyrannical worldwide government and to their knowledge they will have gotten rid of all the religious trouble makers like you and I. When Satan has a fit to start off this whole thing they won’t be proclaiming Peace and Security, it will be after they think they have won.

            • Jamie Mac

              Francis, I was actually thinking the same thing recently. That makes sense and would allow WWIII to break out before the cry of Peace and Security. I need to do some research on this and check out some of Robert’s past essays.

            • heres the recurring problem i keep seeing – “cry”. not scriptural.

              Could WWIII begin before they are saying ‘peace and security’? – https://e-watchman.com/could-wwiii-begin/

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi D.A yes quite correct.

              It was just an expression like ‘Proclamation’ or ‘Announcement’.

              Thanks for the link by the way.

            • yeah Kevin has pointed out that one ingredient can make a whole new soup.
              biblehub.com/1_thessalonians/5-3.htm

            • Burt Reynolds

              I can’t think where I heard the word cry….peace and security. But it’s stuck in my memory that way. Must be an old watchtower, though in recent times, such as the Victorian and Edwardian era, to ‘cry out’ was the same as to make a proclamation. England still has ‘Town Cryers’ don’t forget. ‘Oh yea, Oh yea, Oh yea’ Hear Ye, Hear ye, Hear Ye.’ So there, sniff.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Burt, should that comment have been directed at our young whipper-snapper brother D.A. 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              You’re right! I blame Robert. He threw a dart and missed the board, hit the wall, bounced off the wall and went back into the board. It must be infectious! Are you retired or still got your shoulder to the wheel?

            • Jamie Mac

              Made redundant at the end of Feb. Been looking for a job since then.

              I am a Software Engineer, been writing code almost all my adult life. I am 60 now and have a lot of grey hair and mostly the I.T. trade is awash with 20 or 30 somethings. There are still some of us around in their late fifties or even early sixties.

              I have to get a job otherwise I will be in dire trouble with money problems. Been praying to Jehovah for help. Please consider a prayer or 2 in Jehovah’s ears about my plight.

            • Jamie, have you tried to go the gig route? You might be able to make a go of it with something like Fiver, at least until you land something more substantial. Check it out https://www.fiverr.com/start_selling

            • Jamie Mac

              Hey Robert, thank you for pointing out that site for me. I’ve just come back from an interview and have at least 2 more next week. If nothing comes of these then I will take a closer look Thanks again 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              Keep going Jamie. Everyone here is thinking of you.

            • Burt Reynolds

              That’s sad to hear Jamie. Of course I will remember you in my prayers and so will all the others on site as well. Goes without saying. If you need to talk, you can always message me on face book under Groke Goddard.

            • Jamie Mac

              Burt, thank you, every little word from you all is a comfort to me.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Jamie, so sorry to hear about the dire job situation. I’ve already prayed to Jehovah for you and will carry on including you in my prayers. Another reason I hate the set up of this world….ageism! Everything is geared towards the young. When you get older you become invisible and viewed like you’re a lesser person when the truth is, an older person has experience, discipline, knowledge (unless you’re Sean Spicer,lol), wisdom etc, etc. And potential employers should embrace and value older employees based on those qualities, you’re not exactly pushing a zimmerframe! Older employers are dedicated to doing a good job and have great time keeping and most likely to hardly take unnecessary time off! Keep plugging away Jamie and keep positive as you have a lifetime of skill to offer any future employer.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Beverly, thanks for those words of wisdom. I will never give up. Oh did I tell you I have a blue and white zimmerframe. Good job I didn’t take it to the interview I had today :-).

            • Beverly kenyon

              Jamie, when you go on those interviews just be the laid back, kind funny, relaxed guy you are…don’t be fake. Let your true self shine through, either way you have lots of plan b’s but I do know how you must be feeling, it literally makes your stomach churn but I will keep on praying for you as Jehovah says, he won’t let anyone righteous go without bread and remember he’s on your side. Stay positive!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Lol. ?

            • Burt Reynolds

              What we used to advise families should they put a relative in a nursing/residential home, to put a picture of that person as a child or when they were young, in a prominent position by their bed or on the wall. I used to dispair somewhat when I visited and heared staff ask ‘who is that?’ of the client.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Like one day someone won’t be putting a picture of them by their bed….insensitive. Sad.

            • Richard Long

              Jamie, I understand code writing to be a profession you can prosper at free-lance or on a contract basis. One program I heard about on the radio has California Prison inmates making real (outside) money and resume building. Not sure if this information can springboard you to finding a situation, but the point is the opportunities are there, just not as traditional “jobs” (said the guy not hurting right now). You are certainly in my thoughts and prayers!

              https://thelastmile.org/

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Richard, thanks for your kind support. Very much appreciated.

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              Draw close to Jehovah, he will see you though the difficult time your facing. I too faced a trying time in 2014/ 2015 and he was my rock that kept me going!
              Things are going to improve for you shortly, your in my prayers brother.

            • nope

      • Francis Bencharles

        Hi S3:

        That wasn’t very up-building. And I want to apologize. I don’t remember giving any dates, but even if I did I have never claimed to be a prophet of God and I have never prophesied in his name. The reason is that Jehovah has never given me explicit direction like he does with the Governing Body of the Watchtower (how has that worked out). He has blessed me of course but he didn’t ever dictate to me.

        The Watchtower was God’s representative on earth for nearly 100 years, but just like the first Century Christians did they apostatized from him to gain more power and authority based on their relationship with Rome (this happened in the first Century). The Watchtower did their thing with the U.N. and they may have had faulty but good motives for doing so, but by doing that they showed a great lack of faith in the ability of Jehovah to work things out according to his will and not the will of the U.N. Apparently most people in the Watchtower that know about this relationship with the U.N. think that Jehovah is OK with it and business goes on just as they always have.

        They did this, not because there are not extremely loving men and women in the Watchtower but there has been an evil influence in the Watchtower (just as there was in early Christianity that led them to allow themselves to be seduced by the Roman Government). The problem is that the demonic faction that has made their way to positions of power within the Watchtower throughout the years have apparently gained control of the rudder and are directing the ship. The problem is that the loving brothers and sisters have allowed this to happen. There is a mutiny on the big ship Watchtower and the passengers are none the wiser. The sad thing is that these same ones are directing or attempting to direct the Bible understanding of their passengers.

        This is the same situation that Jesus met when he came to the earth. The Jewish system was so corrupt and in a uncomfortable relationship with Caesar, were very corrupt spiritually and thought they still had God’s approval and authority to represent him. Technically they did, but they certainly did not have his blessing or approval. What they did have was due to the faith of Abraham and not because they deserved it.

        So, along with the miracles and the fantastic way of teaching, Jesus also had a lot of earth shattering things for the people to hear. One such thing was him stating “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves.((to his bride))+ 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life ((to the saved)), and I will resurrect+ him on the last day ((for the dead faithful)); 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. John 6:53-55

        “Do you think I came to give peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.+ 52 For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”+ Luke 12:51

        You see at the end of each true Church or religion there comes a shake up. Robert has done his part to shake up the people in hopes of them coming to their senses and realizing that they have been misled in many ways. This is necessary! I am not Jesus for sure, but what I have learned through my studies of the scriptures since dis-associating from the Watchtower in 2006 is that there is a vast untapped wealth of information and understanding in God’s Word that has thus far been virtually missed. When Jesus comes and establishes his Kingdom, you will start to learn all these things. I’m just trying to give you a sneak preview for when you come out of the wilderness that the Watchtower evil ones have led you to and through.

        But don’t give up S3, your deliverance is near and you will see the signs that show that Satan is here, has been here for some time now, extremely soon. He doesn’t act as soon as he is thrown out of heaven because he is now working with human restrictions and his evil plans take longer to carry out. But, when he sees Jesus coming he will provide him with a welcoming that will be remembered for a long time. Jesus and his angels will ride in on the clouds that Satan provides with his welcome ceremony and you and I will finally get what we have been looking for, fantastic leadership and the abyssing of Satan and his demon angels.

        I wish you well S3.

        Frank

        • Southern ShaSha

          Frank you seem to do an excellent job of up-building yourself, so I did not feel it was necessary for me to go beyond your own self pat on the back. The end! No more needs to be said.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Francis, why do you not set up your own site?

          • Francis Bencharles

            Not smart enough Burt!

            • Daisy

              I’m surprised to hear you’re not smart enough Francis.
              You can always get help?

            • Burt Reynolds

              Oh Daisy, you beat me to it. I was hesitating in my conscience, but I had a good laugh. How are you….mail me! By the way, did you get any divine intervention at the memorial last night as promised by Victor?

            • Daisy

              Well, the g b were not mentioned once. I would say that was due to divine intervention but I’m not au fait with the victor stuff as I was being fried at the time it kicked off.
              The hall was half full, the overflow room was empty. When I asked why was told “everyone went to the earlier meeting”!
              I was also told off for not attending meetings as Brother Strength never missed a meeting during his cancer treatment. Laugh out loud.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Oh! Brother Strength must have moved. He used to be in my congregation. He used to do more hours in the ministry than there were hours in the week, attended every meeting, even if he had Man Flu, ( very serious illness I can tell you…) was very upstanding, mature and a fine example to us all so his mistress told me. If you have been jibed at for attendance during your illness, that’s very sad. People in religious circles especially, raise themselves up by putting others down, ignoring their strength and faith to attend at all, and by so doing, dismiss the persons trials and faith in a sentance. They think they have given good counsel and gained favour but in fact, caused much hurt. They put the physical place of worship above the seat of worship, the heart. All of us here though, felt your anguish, admired your faith, marvelled at your refusal of blood though it cost you dear in time and treatment. Each person deals with their own crisis. The watchtower demands yet more, but followers of Jehovah see the struggle and stand and applaud at the way in which Jehovah comforts privately those who love him and should not seek to question it. Just as he did for you.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Burt, bent double laughing! His mistress…where did Brother Strength find the strength to have a mistress. Damn spell check thing on these devices…but it does make you lol.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Ha ha. It wasn’t a spell check error, it was a comment on people taking the beam out of their own eye, before extracting the mote from those of others!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Ahhhhh, I get it now Burt, but I’m still laughing at it. Yeah, a lot of people with beams and motes in their eyes. So funny!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Wow, Daisy, bet you felt all warm and fuzzy from that ‘greeting’. I wonder if the ‘cold fish’ person who said that to you bothered to find out why you were missing and did that very same ‘cold fish’ person on finding out the reason why go to visit you or even a telephone call to find out how you were coping and offer any help. And good for Brother Strength not missing meetings but every body’s circumstances are different and we’re all built differently. Jehovah wants mercy not sacrifice. It’s that sanctimonious, self righteous attitude right there that I find hard to deal with and it gets my back up! Some people need to experience hardship to feel empathy for others.

            • Francis Bencharles

              Hi Daisy:

              I am a little computer literate, but I am not interested in setting up websites. Maybe not smart enough was the wrong choice of words, but I am only a poor little ole’ Psychiatric RN, and what do we know. We are like the Police, everybody hates them or are scared of them until they need one. Then they can’t say enough good things about them.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              On the contrary you are smart enough to start your own web site however you are lacking one very important ingredient.

              If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains,
              (but do not have love,) I am nothing. And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I do not benefit at all.
              Read more> Love—a surpassing way 1 Corinthians (1-13)
              https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/1-corinthians/13/

            • Southern ShaSha

              Once again, thank you Kevin. The scriptures always set matters straight, no dispute, no guessing. This is where we go to get the understanding necessary to gain truth and understanding! Always appreciate how quickly you have the scripture right on hand!

            • Francis Bencharles

              You don’t even know me Burt and you have drawn the conclusion that I don’t have the quality of Love in my personality? Good God man, talk about presumptuousness.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Rubbish. I have never said such a thing to you. I think you aught to ask Robert to proof read your posts. And while I’m at it, I suggest you do not invoke God to support your supposition of presumptuousness. That is pomposity personified. Also, you may like to bear in mind that as the scriptures suggest, people are known by their ‘fruits’, and you have made your fruits abundantly plain, and your attitude along with it. That is why Kevin is entitled to his remark, and I am surprised it was put so obliquly. If it was down to me, I think I would have been more frank, Frank.

            • Francis Bencharles

              Sorry Burt, I must have gotten you mixed up with someone else. My sincere apologies.

          • Thinking

            Francis does have his own site..he comes on here to help ones see the folly of staying with the society ….it’s how many that leave the society and meetings work now…they infiltrate forums and sites like this….

            • Southern ShaSha

              For what purpose, he certainly has not changed any minds. Pretty much an annoyance and a disruption. Was that his plan or goal?

            • Thinking

              To wake you up…he feels it’s his Christian duty to do that…I don’t doubt he is genuine in his feelings ..he’s also a very intelligent man…I like him…but he is dangerous and needs to be avoided…This is how many work on the net now…they find out the errors and sins of the society ..become disgusted…leave and try to wake up as many as they can….they cannot see even tho explained to them many times this is all part of prophesy and Jehovah’s house will be disciplined …Sure no one here that you know of has been mis led…but he has had everyone’s ears for a while now…planting seeds of doubt and distrust…he weakens already hurt and shattered sheep…confusing them…. these ones beat their former brothers and sisters this way…

            • Southern ShaSha

              Yes Thinking, I agree with your statement of his intelligence. But his lack of any kind of humility, coming off as extremely wise in his “own eye”. The Pharisees were also very intelligent in the law but also seemed to try to out smart even Jesus. Almost a chip on his shoulder to make his point shutting down others in his effort. But I will say this, knowing his reason for being here makes me feel very sad for him. He certainly has the scriptural knowledge and by sharing that knowledge a little less aggressively he makes some good points. But does do a little twisting to suit the point he is trying to get across. I wish him well!!

            • Francis Bencharles

              Thank you S3, that was a very nice comment.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Absolutely.

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              Very wise words of wisdom!❤
              RK quote
              There are various creatures who periodically venture out of the swamp to revisit e-watchman. They try to lay their eggs here before before slithering back home. It is a seasonal thing.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I do don’t know about that. He seems to cause some a lot of distress and uncertainty. We should not underestimate the ‘wearing down’ erosion of faith. His methodology is slick…agreement, ‘humility’, sprinkled with truths, before adding the distortion, seeds of plausibility, and the condscending ‘pity’ for our oversight. If you look at others who do not have that psychological skill, overlaid with an even more dense layer of deniability, how long do they last here? A few comments. And this is only the tip of the iceberg. Even the chosen ones will be on the point of being decieved before the end comes. So keep awake. I feel sorry for him. I’m afraid being long winded is a fault I share with him, but it’s nice to converse with brothers and sisters. It’s a long day at times!

            • Southern ShaSha

              Hello Burt, I agree 100%. Now realizing why he behaved in such a manner, the man, I believe deep inside is extremely insecure, needing validation. He could not realize when it was time to back off. Like beating a dead horse. And yes, when he spoke of the deeper things of scripture was merely adding whatever he wanted to believe HIS own thought, not what the scripture on it’s own merit stated clearly. I don’t know if it was deceit or if he truly felt his assumptions were right on point. Burt, my comment on being long winded, was meant in being argumentative in his effort to drill and confuse. You on the other hand have such ability to help always others to see, appreciate the qualities of Jehovah. To not get bogged down in in our studies to lose sight of what each of us can see and feel by His presence alone. When many on the site get bogged down you show up to remind us of the hope we have in our hearts, to appreciate aside from all else, Jehovah is here to pick us up and carry on. I love the love you spread to others by means of pointing to His love and understanding regardless of what we think we may be going through. I, myself plug along to gain as much knowledge as I can take in, but you have helped me to understand that Jehovah knows my very thoughts and that is why I continue to have hope. If it were having enormous literacy in scripture alone, I would be a Lost!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Really? I am saddened but not surprised. Thanks. At least now we know what his motive is and it explains his condescending haughtiness. I am heartily fed up with it, I don’t mind saying. It reminds me of Victor, dragging people under into a sea of confusion. What is to offer if you take the bait? More confusion! Excuses. I wrote to Victor yesterday to ask him how he was going to support Annie et al now that his prophesy failed to materialise. He told me he was already on it. Let’s hope he is humble enough to let Annie go. I hope she knows she is always welcome.

            • well hello, Burt! You had to bring Victor into this didn’t you? Did any of you ever stop to think that both Victor & Francis Bencharles might just be talking some sense? So, yes, the Memorial has come & gone, but are you aware of things that might really be happening or are you all so blinded by all this macho talk of war. Ears are for listening & mouths were not made for gloating!

              Did you ever stop & look at how each of you speaks to Francis & about him? What do you think you look like to silent readers of this site? You all treat everyone new here so badly, it is no wonder only the bravest feel comfortable enough to post & then only if they agree with you all.
              True Christians do NOT display such open loathing or gloating, did you ever hear of Jesus doing it?

              May I remind you of a Scripture here; 1 John 4:11″Beloved ones, if this is how God loved us, then we are also under obligation to love one another” God IS love & He expects us to show it to all too.

              Go back over all the vicious comments made to Francis & see if this Scripture has been lovingly followed by ANY of you.

              There is also another Scripture you might want to be reminded of at 1Thess 5:19-23 “Do not put out the fire of the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt. Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine. Abstain from every form of wickedness. May the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely. And may the spirit and soul and body of you brothers, sound in every respect, be preserved blameless at the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ”

              Do you realise that we are all being refined by Jehovah & He knows the inclination of our hearts (particularly when you put it into written form!)

              I have seen ALL the correspondence you have had with Victor, Burt, & it is not like you have been making it out to be here, in fact I have copies of each of your conversations that I can post here if you really want others to see exactly what was said.

              Victor & Francis both have more scriptural sense in their little fingers than anyone makes out to have on this site – think about that very carefully! So, what if they are slightly out on their calculations, they are both of them being taught by Jehovah & not just copying willy-nilly anything said by Robert here. But, both of them are far nearer the truth than any of you here can see.

              When did you last give thanks to Jehovah for anything you think you learn on this site, indeed, think also about how many times Robert actually gives thanks publicly to Jehovah for what he writes here. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?

              Thank you for saying I am always welcome back here, Burt, however I feel that once I have stood in a nest of vipers I have no wish to do it again.
              I have a lot more to say, but I have been reined in by Elijah7, (remember him? He is also ‘held hostage ‘ by Victor) who reminds me of the saying in Proverbs; https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fb55f3a082cb3e06b89ccb363a2a9020eb290f56b91adbcbebaf924bd49359c2.png

            • Whether you chose to engage anyone on this site again is not going to be your call. I have banned you. That way you won’t have to worry about coming back to the “nest of vipers.”

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              That was a disturbing post….

            • Thinking

              JS there are so many Victors and Pearl Doxceys and Francis’s on the net now..the net has become a minefield ….these ones infiltrate everywhere.
              What is so heart breaking is they devour confused and shattered sheep…Francis’s group has made by their own admissions over fifty false predictions of the end….so it’s a little bit more than Annie thinks…yet they condemn the WT for their errors???….yes it was a disturbing post….to Elijah7 ..I appeal to you..please think….. Victor has claimed to have all of his info revealed and given to him straight from Jehovah….if this is so…then Jehovah’s calculations were out….not Victors….so I ask you….just who is giving these directions to Victor…..Because Jehovah is perfect and cannot lie… Victor will claim he misunderstood……he has proved himself to be a false phrophet….
              Annie asked if any of us remembered you Elijah7…..well I do..?….please Elijah….think carefully on this…Victor is being used by the demons….that’s why Annie thinks the likes of Victor and Francis are so knowledgable….so what…so is satan…but would you want to walk down the same path as him..please be careful ……

            • ELiJAHx7

              Thank you very much for caring about me! I have been a “silent lurker”, no need to believe that I have been taken captive by Victor or anyone…We are told to test every inspired expression so as to know whether or not it is from God, I test all things….I have tested Robert Kings work, the watchtower’s work, Victor’s work, many works, even as late, Francis’s work lol….This does not mean that I except everything as my own…I have my own opinions and I avoid controversy and contention because I follow Christ example of Love, I Love everyone, all of you! I am a simple man, I keep to myself and I try to encourage others positively…I try to find the good in everyone…We all have to stand on our own before Jehovah and answer for our actions, we know that no one does this for us…I truly appreciate your thoughts about me and your concern, I am so thankful for that….I would like to encourage all of you with Love, we need all we can get in this perilous time! I am here, I pray constantly for all here on ewatchman, I am not one to bloviate, so, I will just say Thank You and much Christian Love for you and all here!

            • Thinking

              Hi Elijah 7 ?..I’m glad you have read so widely….and you know what…I don’t beleive any one has it all right..not Robert ..Perimeno…not any one….sadly I trust no one…each has Their beauty ..and Jehovah uses different ones for different things it seems…each has their own human frailties and imperfections …but the core of truth is generally there..and at times in great detail…in a way it’s a good way to be…as being deceived is my greatest fear..as no doubt you feel as well….as do many on this site..
              All,I,can do for you brother is to,offer you encouragement to not leave the wheat because of the weeds…Keep at your meetings as much as possible ….and yes I know at times some must walk away for a bit for their sanity….but once we recognise whymthings are as they are in the Org….then we have been given a gift and a tool to use to keep enduring there amongst Gods house…Jehovah wants ones like you brother to be there for when the confusion hits….and it seems to have started….use your scars and pain to stretched ones in need….please dont wander off …into the wilderness …Victor is just repeating what so so so many have over the many years I have been on the net…I nearly followed of with Pearl Doxcey…such was my hurt and confusion …I’ve been there Elijah….I’ve done it….Jehovah some how drew you to Gods House…..stay there even tho we will feel some strokes……Joshua and Kaleb had to wear the discipline of the stiff necked people when the were punished by staying for FORTY YEARS???? in the wilderness…thru no fault of their own….so we too must bear the disciplining of his house as 1Peter 4:17….his house is in great error…and thus our pain and shame….yet we too must carry some of this punishment..as that’s what Jehovah says….Elijaha please do not think I have not experienced the pain of bad elders and Policies and teachings..

            • ELiJAHx7

              Yes, we are wise to ONLY follow Christ and trust fully in no other man…It is best sometimes to step back and look at our personal situation to get a broader view , we cannot keep a narrow vision….I never want to be far off from Jehovah’s people, I love all of them! Thank You again for your kindness and encouragement!

            • Song of Hannah

              Your answer dropped off here, but I’d really like to hear your finished thought…

              “it’s easy to be content just with saying this site is our virtual cong …when it not…it’s a…”

            • KB

              I too remember Elijah7. It was good to hear from him. He seems like a very loving brother. Thanks for your perspective on this. Satan is busy isn’t he, He sets traps everywhere, even here on ewatchman.

            • Richard Long

              Did you just say Francis has a group? Here I thought he was just another “lonely guy” with too much time on his hands.

            • Thinking

              No to my knowledge he does not have a group like this…where we speak as we do here.
              He has a page which he represents..to,which some time ago,he directed me to…out of respect I read it…so Lords Witmesses do have a site which he partakes off and supports and clearly represents…with his email and stating he is a representative of that site…
              This is how ones like Francis work….they get on forums….get ones interested and then direct them to their page…just like Victor did..

            • Richard Long

              Well, I’ve had my say on the matter of his self-described “thick skin” which might be more appropriately called a “calloused heart”, publicly and directly to him, which is the way I like it. No love in the man at all, by my estimation, save love of self.

            • Bklyn Kevin
            • Joseph of Aramathea

              POW!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Burt, I love you loads. I know for a fact any communication with Victor from you would’ve been to reason with him and to explore what the fudge cake is driving him to actually think that Jehovah has singled him out like he’s the ‘special one’ to impart extra special knowledge so DO NOT back down or cower to daft threats! No one will tell me any different about you! You’re a gent, a scholar, you have heart, reasoning, immense love and you can smell BS from a mile away! I trust you! I’m so very glad I know you and it’s all thanks to Brother King actually rising up from being kicked down and doing something about it, relying on Jehovah by looking into his word the Bible for true answers and he tells it like it is……straight, no faffing about, no fancy fire and brimstone olde worlde statements….this is what Jehovah says and this is what will happen and the consequences, you believe it or you don’t, check it out for yourself like the Boreans and like Jehovah himself asks you to. Don’t let anyone belittle you Burt as you’re worth more than that! ?????. I put the crying emoji as a reminder of how you make me laugh so much!

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              Spoken like a true daughter of Jehovah!❤❤❤

            • Daisy

              Beverly ive absolutely no idea what’s been happening but want you to know that I love Burt more than you do…smiley face if i had one. Love you too:D

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hi Daisy, apparently it was all Burt’s fault that Victor’s April 11 predictions didn’t come true, (I’m being sarcastic there)! We all know the Genesis account about the woman being thoroughly deceived but I still can’t believe that Elijahx7, Rollee and 1914 were taken in by Victor and his insane predictions and ramblings!

            • Daisy

              Hello my dear sister Thinking. Im just dying to know how you can say so surely that Francis has his own site….not because I want to chase after him of course….just curious?
              Hugs from Daisy…

            • I think she was being sarcastic and meant Francis has his own site here, he has made e-watchman his site. And that was my point, that I was not going to allow him to make this site his personal blog.

            • Daisy

              Thanks Robert… I understand now!
              Just wish Burt’s “seeing right through him” words of wisdom early on had sent Francis packing.
              No harm done, it helped us all work on our being patient and kind …cough!
              My scrambled head is now sunny side up….I think. Hug from Daisy.

            • Richard Long

              His Facebook page says he is a psychiatric nurse. Everything is clear to me now.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Funny you should say that! We had an ex taxi driver psyciatric nurse on our team who got himself qualified….no one knew how. But he would often just take the word of a career rather than see the client. It was a constant feature of my career that all the psychiatric nurses we had, should not have been….which is just as well otherwise they would have known that I’m completely mad.

            • Thinking

              Haha..No Robert I wasn’t being sarcastic..lol…he really does have his own site….and you would roll your eyes if you read it…but yes he was using your site for his purpose…

            • Oh. I didn’t realize that. Then I suppose Francis was deliberately misleading us when he said he wasn’t smart enough to put up a website. Interesting. Thanks for the tip.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Deliberately misleading is just another way of outright lying ….
              I wonder what his true motive really is.

              Perhaps his motive was>
              Acts 20:30
              from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.

              Or why else would Francis Bencharles be so deceptive and say he wasn’t smart enough to open his own website yet at the same time he has one.
              In any respect for sure he is a deceptive liar and so obviously he’s from his father the devil.

            • Thinking

              He follows Gordon Richie….and belongs to Lords Witnesses…sort of a break away from us .
              I wouldn’t say Francis deliberately mislead any one…as to making up a personal web site..to my knowledge he doesn’t have a personal web site…….he directed me to their site with his name on it at the bottom of the page …..it’s a site that represents all of their beliefs ….so my wording sayimg his own site …was meaning his own religious site that he directs people to…
              He used this site to promote his own new found beliefs….

            • Maybe they ought to hook up with this guy down in South Africa lol http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/gauteng/pretoria-resident-says-he-is-the-anointed-one-8554402

            • Joseph of Aramathea
            • Thinking

              My goodness me…..oh well….nothing really surprises me anymore….I can only wonder what went thru that judges mind…..?

            • Burt Reynolds

              That says more about watchtower teaching than it does about this deluded fellow. What surprises me is that the judge defied Jehovah like that. No wonder Victor’s prophesy failed!

            • Song of Hannah

              Haha oh my!

            • Richard Long

              How do you stand it??????

            • Song of Hannah

              This all leads me to remember how someone posted a while back Jesus words in the Greek – was it you, Thinking? As it makes it much easier to see its fulfillment!

              Matt 24:24 “For false anointed ψευδό-χριστοι (pseudo-christoi) and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.”

            • Thinking

              No it wasn’t me sis….but that is exactly what is at work.on the net now…everywhere!!!!..I mean we can apply that to us….but it’s also applicable to ones like Victor Francis Doxcey and so so many others…and the thing is…they are having success…carting off bleeding crushed sheep in a vulnerable state …just makes one want to sit down and cry…..

            • LW

              Jehovah knows who belongs to him, nothing can debar his angels from accomplishing their work.

            • Thinking

              So are you saying that no one gets stumbled?…or ones cannot stumble others ?…not sure what you are saying here…sorry

            • LW

              You were concerned about those who were carried away and I’m saying Jehovah always draws those who are genuine in their search for him, so we don’t need to worry.

            • Daisy

              Powerful video thank you, reminding me that “those who have your law have great peace and nothing causes them to stumble” psalm 119:165

            • LW

              No problem! things are already happening now ?

            • Thinking

              Thank you for trying to reassure me LW….but we do need to worry as Jehovah has stated his own concern for those who will be stumbled time and time again…Romans 14:13….
              mathew 18:6,7….Mathew 13:41..romans 6:17…
              This is just a few scriptures he gave us about stumbling others …..the warning isn’t just for the stumbled…..but for the stumbler as well.
              If we beleive it’s all okay…nothing to,worry about because the angels know the sheep…so all is good….then why does he warn that you may be guilty of distinguishing a flickering flame….
              You see the problem I have..is our old Elders treated many harshly..and they extinguished a flickering flame many times….and then when you approached them about this…they would,say…..’ well they would have left anyway ‘………so it’s a bit like saying …Jehovah knows his sheep ,and they would have stayed if they truly were ….

              What you say is totally true..Jehovah does know his sheep…but those sheep are still to be tested…as even the chosen ones can be deceived..

              But I do get what you are saying…as for the man in the video….he has been stumbled…out of Gods house…and Jehovah will hold to account those who have dared to stumble him…but he will also be held to account for those that listen to him…for he is now stumbling others .
              He’s like so many out there that leave…..they cannot see the woods for the trees…..what is happening in Gods house….HAS TO HAPPEN….the corruption we see and experience is actually one way of knowing it is Gods house…and thus is also supported by 1Peter 4:17,18.
              The account in the wilderness clearly shows us what we need to do….he wrote that for us to learn from.
              Some of Gods people at that time ..as you very well know …I know…built a golden calf with the support of the second man in charge …..
              But not all of his people became corrupt ….the didn’t leave the camp…but they did seperate them selves in mind .
              Most did not join in the false worship
              Kaleb and Joshua did not leave the camp….so,why is this man and many encouraging others to leave Gods house.
              Jesus will return ..and clean out the weeds….the wheat will be left over…
              How that comes about I think we will very shortly see…
              I have rambled I know..but I’m afraid I did not like that video at all…and in posting it you seem to be promoting leaving Gods House??
              The very house he drew us all to in the first place…keep in mind…Jehovah drew us to a house he knew was already corrupted……ask yourself why would he do that?

              All this does is show a great lack of Faith in our God Jehovah and his ability to clean up his own people..and rescue the wheat…
              Thanks tho LW for trying to kindly reassure me…I do appreciate that…it was very kind of you…

            • LW

              No problem and thanks for reminding me of those points.:)

            • LW
            • Thinking

              So what was s the purpose of sending this LW..is this you?

            • LW

              No, just thought it would be encouraging to you..

            • Thinking

              Hey you sticking it out at Gods house is what I would find encouraging…..but I do thank you for your kind thoughts

            • LW

              I currently am 😉 lol

            • Thinking

              Well that’s great LW…your not alone even tho it does feel like it at times….lots of times actually……I don’t know your story ..but look at what we are doing as training for what is ahead .
              We are being trained for the coming discipline and confusion…us finding it hard now will pay of soon…when it all comes down…we won’t find it so hard …it will be a bit easier for us….and we can then use our hard earned spiritual muscles to help the confused ones amongst us…beleive me….if they don’t see us doing the hard work right up to the falling of his house….they wont listen to you..They will view you as just another one trying to trick them..they will not trust you….and why would they…….so look upon this time as enduring and getting prepared for our final testing .

              A number of years ago I used to listen to a lot on utube…then it dawned on me they all have their OWN interpretations …their OWN understandings…their OWN views on the scriptures…hey they cannot all be right can they…and now there are so so many of them.
              They will wear you down and weaken you eventually…so please be careful…I had to stop listening to them …I did with that video you sent me…I even watched another one of his to get a bit of back ground on him..
              He’s just one of many…they sound convincing …but who of us would have ever picked Judas as the betrayer…I bet none of us would have…that’s how good these ones are…
              Anyway all the best to you brother…bit please be careful of what you re feeding yourself on…we are only as strong as the food we allow to enter our minds and body..
              We can all do this…xx

            • Richard Long

              This is a person publishing on YouTube quite prolifically under the name Carlito Vida. I’m suspicious of anyone willing to ramble aimlessly on camera. If there was a, as in “one”, thought for the day, in this presentation titled “thought for the day” I was unable to discern it. Personally it was not encouraging to me.

            • Richard Long

              In my opinion you are too kind. I WILL SAY FRANCIS IS DELIBERATELY MISLEADING EVERYONE HE CAN!

            • Thinking

              Yes he is…

            • Francis Bencharles

              I do not have my own website and never have. I contribute to one but that is neither here nor there. I said that I was simply interested in sharing some things that I have learned over the years. It is a good thing to be cautious but not everyone is out to get you.

            • Anderiega

              “neither here nor there”….But is it? You seem pretty invested in that other site. Whatever…. Proverbs 10:19. Do you have an agenda?

            • Richard Long

              You really are a lawyer, aren’t you!

            • Jamie Mac

              Be wary though, they will come in many shapes and sizes.

            • Richard Long

              This informational black hole is the above mentioned website where “brother” Bencharles is listed at the SOLE US CONTACT. I think that about makes him the Branch Overseer, but you decide.

              http://www.truebiblecode.com/

            • Richard Long

              This informational black hole is the site in question, where he is listed as the SOLE US CONTACT. I’d say that makes “brother” Bencharles the Branch Overseer of a globally recognized JW splinter group Decide for yourself..

              http://www.truebiblecode.com/

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_splinter_groups#Internet-era_departures

            • Thinking

              Hey Daisy, long time no see…hope your doing good…
              Francis has his own site known as witnesses of Jehovah…or something close to that title..I have read it extensively ..I’m sure Francis will share it with you Daisy….I’ll let you make up your own mind on it ….Im sure Robert would never allow a link to it…an nor should he…stay well sis xx

            • Daisy

              Hello sis Thinking. I’m doing good despite many demands on my mental emotional and physical self…aren’t we all!
              Thanks for the info but I made my feelings about Francis quite clear earlier days and may I say I admire your intellectual capacity in order to have read from his site extensively as you say. Having myself tried my hardest to follow his thinking process I now find myself googling for local psychiatric help lol. You deserve a medal. X

            • Francis Bencharles

              Hi Thinking:

              I have never put a link on this site nor would I. I have made that clear, I hope. Glad your doing well.

            • Thinking

              Hi Francis ,
              I know you never put a link up on this site…..Robert wouldn’t let you…lol….but you do have a site Francis..and you are a representative of that site….with your name and info on that site…I hope you are well to….when are you coming back to Gods house….??

            • Francis Bencharles

              That would be comparable to re-entering Jericho while Joshua had lapped the city 6.99 times. No thanks, I’ll take my chances right where I am. But I appreciate the thought (no kidding).

            • Thinking

              Aaaah…..but did not Jehovah the reader of hearts save those he counted worthy with in Jericho at the time….does RAHAB NOT TELL YOU SOMETHING….

            • Francis Bencharles

              If you are among those who are Rahab, you have nothing to fear. If you have true faith in Jehovah then also nothing to fear. Should you choose to remain too too long in the Watchtower, not such a good move. Listen for the voice of the true Shepherd Sis, and that is not the GB. I’m pretty sure you will make the correct decision. Here’s hoping you and many, many others do as well.

            • Thinking

              What you just said doesn’t make sense ….RAHAB stayed until the walls went crumbling down…Jericho was absolutely destroyed..yet she survived along with her family that listened to her….totally protected…there’s a lot in that account….The GB is not our Shepard nor does anyone beleive that here Francis so why say it….it’s a moot argument on your part

            • Thinking

              And by the way..I have said this to you before….I am not your sis…and you are not my brother …..I like you…i care for you …..I feel terribly sad that you left because of the WT errors…you are a victim ..a stumbled sheep….we are not spiritually related in anyway…..but Francis..you are stumbling others or attempting to…in that way…you are proving no different to my bad elders….who cost me my sons life…..that’s why I cannot tolerate ones like you…to beleive what you beleive ends in death…

            • Francis Bencharles

              Your pretty judgmental aren’t you? I have never attempted to stumble anyone. If a person has true faith they will not be stumbled by anything. I am fine with not being your brother. Let’s leave it at that.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Actually you are trying to pull others in a different way Francis though thinly you attempt to deny it. To stumble is to put a cause for stumbling before a person. It has no definitition and belongs solely to the recipient. This is why we are told by the scriptures to be careful in what WE do and say. Not what THEY do. This is what Thinking refers to I believe and you do this by adding to, or confusing the plain truth that Robert portrays. What Robert leaves open for thought and research, you close by adding your solution that often, if not always, has no scriptural basis that can be proven or even reasoned. It is a false trail. This you do deliberately, not it seems to add depth of understanding, as commentators on this site hope to do, but an alternative to most, if not all that Robert seeks to explain openly for personal reasoning and without interference or penalty. Choice, in other words. This is why I suggested you set up your own site. People here I assume, feel they have the correct source of truth and thus are content. You, clearly, are not content and being malcontent, you seek to put alternatives without resolution before others to distract with insoluble reasoning and clearly cause distress to some, and unease and irritation to many. People come here looking for truth. Those that stay feel they have found it. Those that do not, choose to move on. That you persist is for your own motive to promulgate your beliefs, not those of the bible, and that as such, are, and cannot be proven from the scripture. They belong to you and not it seems, the scripture. When challenged, you claim to be a victim and accuse others of being judgemental and apply a spurious acquiescence to humility and which hardly holds water, because it is unsupported by change. Clearly your own site is not well patronised and thus you seek attention here as an authority and to ride on the back of what Robert reveals because you do not seem to have insight of your own or even agree with his. You chose instead to pat him on the back and then add your thoughts to it that have no foundation in a bid to show yourself as an equal. I would have thought that a mental health nurse would have had far more insight into themselves and the feelings of others, far more empathy for reasoning, far more insight into how others see them to be, and insight into the individual need for faith. Neither do you abide by MH reasoning or etiquette in your dealings with others or the understanding of exchange and empathy, as plainly shown by the way people make these decisions for you and which you feed off. I find it significant that the sisters respond to you with challenge far more than the brothers. You would do well to read Damisio: The Sense Of What Happens and brush up on your Transactional Analysis because at the moment, you are still wallowing in Freud…and that’s not a judgement, it’s a plain fact. Further Francis, I am not going to argue with you anymore. There seems no point.

            • Thinking

              Im not judging you Francis…..I showed you great respect and read your site…many here have not…..thus I follow the scriptural advice given below ….Because I read your site and understand what your new beliefs are….

              Romans 16:17-18International Standard Version (ISV)

              Final Warning

              17 Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and sinful enticements that oppose the teaching you have learned. Stay away from them, 18 because such people are not serving the Messiah[a] our Lord, but their own desires. By their smooth talk and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the unsuspectin

            • Francis Bencharles

              You may be wise to that Thinking but I don’t think that everyone in the Watchtower is that wise or has the perspective that you have. They have to know that at the right time they will need to give up on Jerusalem and get their butts to the symbolic mountains. I simply want people to think a little, that’s all. I know you think I am evil. There’s not too much that I can do about that.

            • Thinking

              I don’t think your evil at all Francis…you are very likeable…I think you are a kind and passionate man…..and if we met we could get along fine ….but that’s where the danger lies…..you are misled…why I don’t know…..you know we do a great disservice to many brothers and sister…me too I might add…in the past..we think because they don’t know what we know here..they serve the GB…..the last two years I would say ..I have heard comments from a few who strongly indicate very clearly that they don’t serve and organisation or men…meaning GB…..these ones to my knowledge are not awake…to how deep the operation of errors go….But they are observing many things….and forming conclusions of their own…Also,take,a look at our hezekiah drama…..if that wasnt the wheat talking I’ll eat my hat…. until such time as the angels harvest the weeds….we should be staying in Gods house…supporting the wheat….This is preety hard to do for many..and they flee…hurt and battered…but if we have been given a gift of knowing why it is like it is….then we need to use that gift and not hide it under a barrel….Elders and the annoited are there to serve the sheep …but each sheep also must have the same attitude …we must serve or be prepared to serve our brothers and sisters in the coming hard times….you should have stayed Francis….but instead you have gone of and formed and worship your own Golden Calf…

              So many just see the weeds ..all they see are weeds weeds weeds….they are blinded to the wheat….they leave of their meetings …assemblies….their vital association ..so therefore the weeds have won……the endurance test has been lost….they abandoned the wheat ………it’s not too late for you Francis

            • Song of Hannah

              You are so right Thinking. You know, I think many of us get so caught up in all the newfound understanding of prophecy, that we leave off studying the rest of the scriptures, which causes a weakness in other areas of our armor so to speak. I’ve definitely noticed this in myself! Wasn’t feeling like I needed to be apart of the congregation at all. “Forget the whole lot of them! Why do I need that kind of trouble in my life?” But after studying 1 John, my rump was sore from the lashing! So here I am back at meetings again. lol

              Also, regarding the treatment of our brothers online, this scripture helps put a certain fear in me…

              Matt 5:22 However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; and whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge·henʹna.

            • Thinking

              Oh I’m sorry if I said something wrong …I certainly do t think Francis or Victors are despicable fools….acting foolishly yes …as I have myself done in the past as well….

            • Thinking

              Also Hannah…you are a great encouragement to me..to be back at meetings….it’s all a process isn’t it…I didn’t go back on my own steam…lol…man I was the most bitter resentful sister you could have come across…but Jehovah had to open my eyes to the weeds and the wheat….how could I not go back once he gave me the aid of the helper….so you needed I John …to help you…Jehovah did that…he opened your eyes….and in you going back…you help others and me…Beverly too…so I thank you for that..much love to you sis….oh and I’m going to go read 1John now too…..xxx

            • Burt Reynolds

              Does this not depend on whether they are our brothers or just masquerading as such. Jesus called the priests vipers and from their father the devil yet they were both Jews. Of course no one should be termed foolish for not understanding, or to be treated with contempt (unnecessarily) perhaps and the scriptures point to not even eating with such ones that are behaving contrary to the scriptures. The fact that all points are considered, love, forgiveness, disassociation, calling people fools, treating them as fools, loving enemies, hating what is bad, enduring all things, indicates that discernment is involved and that it is the correctness of ones subsequent action on that discernment, lest it be erroneous, that brings judgement from Jehovah with it. Is that not why we have wise and foolish virgins amongst us?

            • Daisy

              Burt, my dear Burt, I know your comment is addressed to SoH and the dialogue between you both is none of my business Whatsoever, but I just want to say that if time permitted I would like to collate all your wise utterances and get a self-help book published. You are one diamond of a dude! 😀

            • Burt Reynolds

              To be honest Daisy, with no false modesty whatsoever, (even if it is of itself immodest to say such a thing), if my meagre insight into scripture is born of anything, it is because Jehovah oft chooses fools to say it. And that title I can claim without false modesty absolutely. And even if I could talk the talk with understanding the way many here do, I have serious doubts that I could ever walk the walk. As the scriptures rightly point out, that which I should follow, I do not, and that which I do, I should not. Or, as I said in answer once at a meeting, ‘would that I could that I do but I don’t.’ I seem to recall it caused a low rumble of laughter before everyone went back to sleep. That was in the days when the watchtower study ground on and on in its repetition until prayers were incited to Jehovah for mercy only for the meeting to be concluded in prayer by a brother intent of absolving not only himself of sin, but the entire society and when the word Amen was greeted as a gift from Jehovah. Maybe i am still to cynical in my memory!

            • Song of Hannah

              Why I think you are on to something here Burt. Yes, I think that absolutely could be a factor.

            • Song of Hannah

              And please know in me saying this, it’s only because I have found you to be a good example of Christian love. Yes, you don’t hold any punches when it comes to upholding the truth, but in doing so I’ve always seen you try to treat everyone with kindness & respect.

            • Thinking

              Thank you sis…I only speak straight because time is short and we live in evil times…..and I only speak straight with ones like Francis and Victors….because they are extremly dangerous.
              Yet I personally have to say I have not liked the way a few have commented or replied to Francis….Annie did have a valid point there in her post…so I do acknowledge her point .
              I hope your well Hannah…I often think of you and your hubby sis…I have had a self imposed restraint on myself for some months as to posting ANYWHERE……as it is so tiring and hard to stay positive…sometimes it’s good to go quiet and regain strength .
              Xx

            • Richard Long

              Thinking, if you tell me I have handled Francis improperly I will accept your counsel.

            • Thinking

              Hey Richard..you don’t have to defer to me….you say and think as you wish..Im actually sick to death of ones like Francis and the others ..the damage they do is huge …I do t know what you said …I did think a few comments on here were a bit ….sort of personal and not warranted…i don’t like making fun of people…..I cannot remember who made them nor do I care to…
              I have upset a few because I tend to be blunt and straight ..apparently. …I actually didn’t even know I came across like that..perhaps I can blame it on being Australian hey?.haha
              Look Francis is wrong …he’s been misled…and he knows exactly what he is doing here…as do I…these ones are so far down the rabbit hole they just won’t resurface .
              He’s teaching ..teachings inspired by demons…he chose to leave Gods house…he shut the door on himself…so,why on earth do they come back to places like this ….to plant seeds of doubt…and carry away our injured …
              He doesn’t belong here because he is not of our sort….
              Hey no councel from me brother…but hey..you must be a very humble man..your post was very touching…

            • Richard Long

              Lets just say form the moment I arrived here about a month ago, every time the two of us were “in the same room”, the needle of my bullshit meter swung past redline and stuck to the pin and I have been vocal about it. As one newly awakened and full on pissed at the WT, and just learning why we are in the deluded condition we were in from Robert’s book I was and am in no mood to tolerate the heartless abuse of anyone’s fragile faith, mine especially!

              I extend the invitation to any other serious minded person reading, especially Robert: If I have been anything more than direct, honest and fair with the man, I need to know it.

              I wish the man no evil, but owe him precisely the same loyalty he has show for me, which is exactly zero. He should count himself grateful that the debt of loyalty I feel towards Jehovah and His Christ is so profound that it extends to him. It might possibly have saved his life.

            • Thinking

              You must be Australian hey…hahaha

            • Richard Long

              No. Just another “ugly American”.

            • Thinking

              Hahah..hey..no such thing…lol

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              That’s total bullshit! the endurance test hasn’t started yet, you will know it when it’s in your face much like Nazi Germany rounding up the Jews. Everyone young or old sick or ill will determine who they want for their king.
              regardless of their upbringing spiritual or otherwise ….either Putin, Trump, Blair or Jesus Christ…. people all over the world will decide and give their final once and all vote. Stop being a JW apologist for once in your pathetic life……and a very big (smile)

            • Thinking

              Touch a sore bone did I Ed….

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              No sore bones here sister!…Just a little jet lag coming home from visiting the old mama from North Carolina. Your the first post that put me sideways… I can manage I always do!

            • Thinking

              Well I don’t know what’ put me sideways means but I preety well gather it irked you…beleive me me Ed..endurance with In the cong is one of the hardest test most of us can face….but you are right…in the time of the end ….at the final testing …endurance may come in another form….you have no arguments on me with that….enjoy your catch up sleep brother
              By the way apologist I am not…but a sis that won’t be hounded out of Gods house by any one ..I am….:)

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              It’s just a fancy way of saying irked. I suppose sitting in the congregation meetings with no contact is a good preliminary test of endurance for the big one, what I want is a physical beating…like nine times in the face really hard, not over a span of ten years but in one day. Is there a way I can arrange this?

            • Thinking

              Don’t think so brother ….that’s the easy way out..hahahah…I tell you what ..I’ll post a scripture that I found very helpful concerning meetings and putting up with things for the time being….when I went inactive for two years….this,point hit home…mmmmmnowmive for,to post a picture ..mmhhh I have to come back ..okay

            • Thinking

              Nope sorry…..that would be the easy way out..lol…when I went inactive for two years ..and had clear direction from Jehovah to come back…which I also absolutely didn’t want to do..there was a scripture that really helped me…Id like,to,post it to you here …I hope nobody minds because it’s in a picture…I love it…and you will get its drift straight away….hope this works as it’s a first for me here…….aren’t you the privledged one… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dbc739f3ba1afaf92292f2d766ae2ff027f19542378af85cb4fb785f9656c179.jpg

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hi Sister Thinking, can I just say that picture is absolutely inspirational along with the scripture which I will make a note of but I’ve also got to say, even though I understand and get the points Ed(the other Ed) made there was no need for you to be spoken to like that. You didn’t deserve that. There’s no disputing the strong argument you put forward for being in God’s House but you also did say in a previous post of your’s some people for their own SANITY choose to stay away and for me that’s a good balanced view. A person’s mental health is as important as their physical health and a person has to do what’s best for them personally.

            • Thinking

              Thanks for you support Beverly ..it means a lot….I too understood where Ed was coming from…and some do have to step back from meetings etc..or otherwise they will be broken ….and what point is there in that …who does that serve..some may never be able,to,return to their cong as it is just to bad.
              Yet Jehovah knows those broken ones ..he doesn’t forget them…they are still his sheep and part of his cong….his,people…others may forget them..but he doesn’t .
              My words were directed at ones to not walk away because of the CORRUPTION.and disappointment in the org…..I hope Ed can see that …or this post explains it a bit better amd I will take better care to explain that in the future .
              For some…just staying alive is a major accomplishment….that’s all they can do…it’s a mighty valiant fight they have that nobody but Jehovah sees…
              These are the bravest strongest people I have known…..and my son was one of them Ed..if you are reading this…He suicided..and the elders have a large portion of his blood on their hands ….
              Thanks again sis….me and brother Ed will be fine …xx

            • Beverly kenyon

              Oh, my goodness, Sister Thinking, I can’t begin to think how you feel and the strength it must take to even write that ‘word’. It’s heartbreaking. Yeah, I know you and Ed will be fine no matter what, but that’s out of order to speak like that to a sister….what about the word ‘respect’. As far as I’m concerned you’ve lost the argument as soon as you star using bad language and yes Australians don’t dilly dally, they tell it straight as my sister who lived in Australia for years and still has ties there always tell me. You said a point in your post about staying in God’s House that I can’t stop thinking about and that’s Jehovah brought us into his House in the first place and also I can’t find fault in your reasoning about what happened in the Exodus and Joshua and was it Caleb, I’ve picked it apart and pondered on it and you’ve got a real valid point! You always mention Anna and how she received blessings as she was always at the temple and that’s true but you also remind me of Anna. X

            • Thinking

              Thanks sis that is a great encouragement to me…Ed was just tired and my wording could have been better…my son speaks thru me from his grave. …he would be right behind me with what I say ..I cannot describe the deplorable inhuman treatment he was dealt as a young unbaptised man…who was shunned and the cirmstances that surrounded it all..
              Yet even tho he left as he was at the brink of suicide..and so had to leave…or basically was pushed away……he loved Jehovah to the end ….and was far more spiritual than the men who were the elders.
              …he actually was just starting to attend meetimgs again…but lost his fight to depression..and the damage they had done to him……but won his spiritual fight ….he was good with Jehovah when he died….always was actually…

              There are many like that out there ….they leave because their flickering flame was snuffed out by hard hearted cruel men…
              If me relaying this helps some one out there ..then it is worth it…
              In my bitterness ..my son would say…mum..it’s not Jehovah…this wasn’t his doing…

              His death turned our cong around….thanks again sis…as I said…staying in a cong can be the hardest test ever…many have deep deep,scars…that will never be healed u til the new system…
              Thanks again sis..much love to you xxoo

            • Beverly kenyon

              ???? That’s the main thing Sister Thinking…he was good with Jehovah before he left. There’s a sister on this site who lives every day with the possibility of her boy doing something like that and it must be a living nightmare, day in and day out to live like that, my heart goes out to her too. There was also a sister from Canada if I remember rightly who posts on this site, think she was studying whose child did the same thing and I think she was bringing up his child on her own and I always felt for her as it couldn’t have been easy for her too….so many victims of suicide. Much love to you too Sister Thinking. Xx

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Yup! It worked and I looked up the scripture just in case you were trying to pull a fast one on me, thank you! I still haven’t had any clear direction from Jehovah to go back yet and to be honest I hope it doesn’t come, but this morning something interesting happened when I turned on the t.v. There was a movie called “The Robe” and what I learned from the last half hour of that movie was that there’s no easy way out for anyone period. As much as I would like to take the path of least resistance there isn’t any really. I know it was just a movie but the cause and effect were something to keep in my memory when the time comes.

            • Thinking

              I got the truth because of a movie…beleive it or not…many years ago when Jesus Christ Superstar…came out…it too had a powerful effect on me …Jehovah uses anything to reach us…what ever is at hand…like he says…he will make the stones speak if he has to….who says he didn’t use that movie to make a point or have an effect….hey..he made a donkey talk to get his point across..lol….
              Hey brother ..I,would never pull a fast one on you…but you don’t know me..so it’s good to not trust…
              I got clear unmistakable direction …until I got that I would not have gone back….but LW pointed out here…that Jehovah truly does know his sheep…
              I have no doubt that some how the angels will help you…just be sure to listen to them…
              When I got my direction…after being shocked at understanding it…I must admit all I thought was…..blooming heck….now I have to follow thru with this ..otherwise it would be like slapping his hand away after he had reached down and helped me……im preety sure that would have been grieving his Holy Spirit …..
              You know for two years I couldn’t even drive past the KH….I made sure I avoided that street like the plague….when I had no choice I would keep my eyes diverted..which simply is impossible and my stomach would just churn up something fearce….I reckon I had PTSD….
              So it was hell for me to Brother ….but now I look back….I can see how Jehovah actually led me….I didn’t at the time…not fully..but now…I can see it..and I still find it unbelievable that he did that for me…
              I’ve watched the PASSION by Mel Gibson six times…movies are good…they reach the emotions deeply…at this time period…use what ever you it takes…
              I’ll actually find the Robe and take a peek…I preety well Remember it tho…so I’m getting your thoughts on it…
              It’s isn’t easy Ed…but then he did say it would be like carrying a tortue stake didn’t he…much love to you brother
              Your sis..xx

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Well that’s certainly a different way of learning the truth and if you can tolerate the meetings without the need for medication then all the power to you. If you do get a chance to check out the Robe you’ll come to realize that when the kingdom does come the eyes of many people should be opened. At least that’s what I got out of it. By the way, the character played by Richard whatever his name is, wasn’t a JW he was a Roman soldier, that made it even better. Thanks for your input!

            • Thinking

              But didn’t he become a Christian ..even tho a roman soldier ( which just opens up another can of worms..lol so I won’t touch that ) ….stay well brother …and by the way,,I found that ending of the Robe…sad sad sad….much like today’s situation…..and thank you for your input to!.
              oh and I barley tolerate most meetings…but I have learnt some tricks along the way….and am very very much looking forward to getting banned!!!,

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              I don’t think so, he wasn’t attending the local kingdom hall at any point in the movie. But he did have an epiphany moment and a change in heart. I thought it was sad to at the end but definitely encouraging. Okay were done! (smile) Thank you!

            • Joseph of Aramathea
            • Jamie Mac

              Hey Ed, why don’t you give Wladimir Klitschko a quick call. 🙂

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Nope! It’s all good after some jet lag visiting my mom in North Carolina and some Sunday morning editing!

            • Song of Hannah

              That’s a very good point, Thinking! Throws a grenade on his whole line of reasoning… lol

            • Francis Bencharles

              I said, if you are in the group that Rahab and her family represent in modern times you have nothing to worry about. I am aware that many in the Watchtower are faithful servants of Jehovah and will be saved by following the call of Jesus to get our of her MY PEOPLE. I hope you do Thinking and I have many fond memories of others that I hope make there way out of the Watchtower at the proper time. Or, if you have strong faith in Jehovah and his Son Jesus, they will make sure that you know which way to go at the proper time.

            • Francis Bencharles

              I do not have my own site. I contribute to a site but I thought it would be crass to try and influence anyone from this site to go there. I stated before, it is not my intention to draw away disciples after myself. I am simply discussing things that I have learned in over 40 years of studying God’s Word. Can only people who are veterans of this site Love Jehovah and Jesus? Can only people who stayed with the JW’s after finding out their atrocities be true Christians? Thinking and I have butted heads before, but I like her anyway and she tolerates me a little. Just because someone does not agree with your point of view on everything in the Bible does not make them a demon. My word!

            • Daisy

              Oh will you please get off your soapbox and stop asking me stupid questions Francis and don’t address me again.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hey Daisy, I’m right behind you as did you see I got Three hearts from Joseph the other day. Not quite there yet as you’re still the record holder with Four hearts! Ha!

            • Richard Long

              This informational black hole is the site in question, where he is listed as the SOLE US CONTACT. I’d say that makes “brother” Bencharles the Branch Overseer of a globally recognized JW splinter group. Decide for yourself..

              http://www.truebiblecode.com/

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_splinter_groups#Internet-era_departures

            • Daisy

              Nooooo oooo! Francis is not the dreaded St Agnosticus! Thanks for that but my finger ran out of steam scrolling, before his endless mind ran out of normal perceptions.
              The prediction that a nuclear bomb will explode soon in my back garden doesn’t bother me one bit either, even though Francis provided a pretty map of my exact location.
              Just wished sis Thinking had spilled the beans much sooner so that I had time to move to the outer Hebrides.

            • Thinking

              Well I didn’t think he would last as long as he has..sorry Daisy xx.

            • Richard Long

              I discovered that I actually have the ability to block all comments from individual users on eWatchman from appearing on my interface, so I don’t have to repeatedly get upset over the vomit they write. By accident, I made Millennial Dawn just go “poof”. That will be the fate of Mr Bencharles when I’m done “persecuting” him. So far, it looks irreversible, so one might use such power judiciously.

            • Jamie Mac

              Gosh, firstly what an unappealing web site the truebiblecode is. First trick in web development is getting the aesthetics pleasing. This fails on all accounts. Regarding the content well, it’s like finding a needle in a hay stack. I gave up after about 5 mins, so difficult to follow. However, even after my brief visit I realised I will never return to it.

              It reminded of one of the hopeless Nostradamus sites. It’s astonishing people seriously believed him and continue to believe him.

            • Richard Long

              Right. A mind rape at first sight. Russell mysticism bullshit on steroids!

      • Jamie Mac

        Hi ShaSha, I think you might be surprised just how many might also share your opinion. I certainly do.

      • Richard Long

        Right! To me, this place represents is the shallow, safe end of the pool. I cant even think about the deep end here without having a “blue dye” moment. FOR NOW.

  • Arvid Fløysand

    Thank you Robert…This post is very comforting and confirming and means more to me than you may know..I am convinced that Jehovah and our King Jesus the Christ must love you very much…and YES…i belive satan has already fallen from heaven

    • Thinking

      I beleive he has already fallen too brother ….but most here don’t ….

      • Bklyn Kevin

        In order for lies and falsehoods to have their desired effect they have to be repeated often and confidently, in a matter-of-fact way. Thus, trinitarians often make the unfounded claim that Jesus is God. Evolutionists no longer even refer to the theory of evolution —it is a fact! Here in the United States the mainstream media regularly make the claim that Russia invaded Ukraine and Crimea, and similar falsehoods. And the Watchtower regularly makes statements regarding Jesus having become king in 1914 and Satan being cast down, such as in today’s daily text.
        The Watchtower’s Deluding Influence.

        The definition of delusion is a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. That certainly describes the condition of Jehovah’s Witnesses as regards the whole 1914 rigamarole.

        Consider a few facts which Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot accept. Around 1914 the population was approximately one billion. Approximately 17 million were slaughtered from 1914-1918. A few million more died from famines. And the estimates for those killed by the Spanish Flu run as high as 50 million —taking the combined death toll to roughly 70 million.

        The unsealing of the seven seals of the symbolic scroll of God’s judgments unleashes the horses of war, famine and pestilence, which are given authority over a fourth part of the earth. That certainly seems to indicate that a very large percentage of earth’s population will be impacted. But 70 million is nowhere near a fourth of one billion. It is 7%. And since 1914 the population of earth has exploded and now stands at 7.4 billion. How can there be a population explosion at the same time the world is stalked by the horsemen of Death? It literally does not add up. Read more>
        https://e-watchman.com/1914-deluding-influence/

        • Thinking

          I dont beleive he fell in 1914…I don’t know why you have presumed I did???…..nor do I have any idea as to why you started your conversation as you did..huh???….I don’t need to read what you posted brother…I have a number of times…I am more and more inclined he fell when Jesus was victorious and returned to heaven ….hence the incomprehensible cruel and utterly wicked persecution of all the invited/chosen ones at that time… but I am still pondering many things on this….
          The Horseman of death has bounded his way thru the earth ever since I guess….he’s only been restrained because of the restraint Jehovah has placed over him….I’m sure he will bound so much stronger soon… but then it’s not coming with striking observableness either…so I sit back and wait and watch

          There is Much I dont know Kevin …I’m a meat and potatoes person when it comes to these things…I’m only to happy to admit that…but I cannot agree to something …that I don’t think is right ( at this stage ) ..and I I may very well have to re negotiate my thoughts in the future. … but no..I have never supported this belief…as you say….it just doesn’t make sense to me…
          Or is it like a WT meetings here and I have to toe the line with everything….are you really one hundred percent right..is Robert…is Perimeno…is the GB…am I?…
          Is anybody???. No….so I will feel free as I should be able to….just like we all claim the WT meetings should allow us our doubts…our thoughts….
          Am I being disrespectful to Robert….ABSOLUTLY NOT…..I am indebted to him…I learn every single day from these men…they are where the meat is!!,….I even learn from you..:)

          • Bklyn Kevin

            No conversation was intended and I wasn’t sure if you were familiar with this particular article.

            You could believe what ever you want to believe as for me I’ll trust the facts.

            I was not presuming anything and that’s your assumption and in fact I was just sharing Roberts findings concerning the subject / topic and sharing it with you as well as others.

            PS in the future you can be sure I will not share nothing more with you unless you ask.
            Sorry for the misunderstanding.

            • Thinking

              No sorry needed brother ..for we are all learning …if I’m wrong…I won’t be surprised…if I’m right I won’t be surprised…all is good 🙂

          • Jamie Mac

            Hi Thinking. Interesting comment you made about when Satan fell from heaven. One thing that instantly sprung to my mind was that fact he, Satan, would only have a short time. I’m not sure that fits with what you stated. Am I understanding your comment correctly?

            • Burt Reynolds

              The scriptures say that the four horsemen are unleashed together I thought so it seems you are right. As percentages go, the wars, battles etc etc that have gone on in the world since before the time of Christ, and after, generally appear to keep pace in equal proportion to the world population, as is shown by the point that Kevin made about the Great War. It is only since August 6th 1945 that we have had the ability to kill at arms length in any great quantity. The bible points out a quarter of the population will be killed at the tribulation et al, and so around 1914, the 70 million out of a billion people would be enough to convince the general population that such was the case. Hence the watchtower lie held more water then than it would do if given out today. As we will be aware, in 1914/18 whole villages lost all their menfolk in England due to the Pals Battalions, there were no phones, no mass communication, no one was adequately informed and they did not even know much about the Somme until three months after it began and do it was easy to assume numbers. It was not unusual for a whole battalion of 800 men to be wiped out in one day. My great uncle was the sole survivor of his battalion.

              The bible, along with the description of the horsemen, indicates violence and destruction on a level we have hithtofore, not experienced. Satan is not coming down to have a cup of tea and a chat with us, and we need to keep in mind that, though the Great War was pretty big, 90% of the worlds population were not directly involved for their lives. The bible shows that not only will 25% of the population of the world die, ergo, two thousands of millions , but that all 100% of the remaining population be involved directly in terms of food shortages and disease, also the wonderous signs from the heavens etc etc. The closest example we have of proportional representation of this was the firebombing of Dresden at the end of the Second World War where all that remained was burnt corpses and a few bricks in the centre of the inferno that was and an entire displaced population.

              In Noah’s day, Jehovah wiped out the entire globe. Well, that happens to be satans plan as well. If Satan had free will to kill and destroy, he would have done it by now, not with the bit of bickering we saw last century, but the whole shooting match. The bible is quite clear in that the entire world will be involved and that we will know about it and it will effect us to the last man. No conscientious objectors this time, no children or pensioners exempt. The bible also indicates that when Satan is hurdled down, it will be with freedom to do as he will. Would he have hung around 2000 years? Is this the best he can do? A simple exploration of what humans can do to each other is documented in the nazi death camps for all to see, but cruelty can go a lot deeper than that. There is no limit to what man will do to man. All that we see now, is lawlessness and lack of restraint as shown in 2 Timthoty 3, which in comparison to what Satan can do, is no worse than blue cross day at the local store. We will certainly know when he gets here. Woe to the Earth the bible says.

            • Jamie Mac

              Very insightful comment Burt. He certainly won’t come down to us for an exchange of pleasantries.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I kept reading your initial post as Santa being thrown down from heaven. Though I can understand Jehovah chucking Santa out as well, I would prefer him to Satan. At least you would get a Ho Ho Ho out of it all.

            • Jamie Mac

              Burt, I didn’t know Santa has a pad in heaven, I thought he lived somewhere near the north pole. 🙂

            • Thinking

              Was the Black Plague an exchange of pleasantries….was the massive china earthquake which killled over 5000,000 million people a exchange of pleasantries…all of these things happened well before 1914….which is why I jhabe NEVER believed he was hurled down then…….was the murder and and torturing of Christians and their families also little children in the area s pleasantries ….was seeing your children being ripped apart and eaten pleasant….were the chosen ones left Alive after Jesus death who were then Gathered up and wrapped in tar and then pierced on stakes to light the way to the areana for Nero ..a pleasantly …were the apostle that was dawn asunder pleasant ….or the gulags or concentrations camps..or the camps of North Korea or the inquisition…and any of our history any worse than what you say will happen when he will be let loose…
              How can this me so if it is coming with unobservablmess…and men will be just like in Noah’s day..marrying and carrying on as usual and taking no note until it comes…
              The sex trade and abduction is admitted openly by the world to be at the worst stage now than any time in history…little children are openly trafficked from country to country to be sacrificed in occult ceremonies…tortured to death as slowly as possible because the demons love to hear their screams and they give the torturer more power if the keep the child alive as long as possible…
              Brother I could go on and on..but you may all know of even more than I any way.
              As far as him being here just for a short time…Jesus also said he would be back shortly ..that the kingdom is near…..so what is a short time in their eyes ???
              Have you ever read about Martin Malachi….he was a catholic priest who was the head man in exorcist …..actually a very likeable man..now dead…even he admitted ten years ago that satanic procession was up 800 percent …he’s a very interesting read if you have the time….lots of inside info on The Vatican .etc…….
              Jamie satans short time and Jesus short times sure are different to our short times….unfortunately…
              Jehovah will only allow satan to rape and murder to a certain extent ….as the preaching work and his name needs to be known…we have relative pockets and times of peace ONLY because Jehovah supplies those times to get his work done…

              Jamie I am not saying I’m right…I don’t know !!!..but I lean heavily to that point of thinking…I await and watch and try to figure it out….I am not convinced either way…but I am not dogmatic about it….I call it chewing the fat..:)

            • Richard Long

              If you are willing, may I sit beside you and chew the fat too?

              I think the issue may hinge on the proportionality, if in fact the proportionality is important. Some of us may or may not be giving more or less weight to the statement at Rev 6:8 than the scripture intended?

              “And I saw, and look! a pale horse, and the one seated on it had the name Death. And the Grave* was closely following him. And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage+ and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.”

              My limited perception can not reason a Christian Era time past or present when such aggregate death-dealing disasters and calamities mounted to more that 2 or 3 percent of contemporary world population, let alone 25 percent.

              Also, one gets the sense that the rides of all 4 horsemen are concurrent, but the evil that men have done or will do, demon fueled or not, is not a feature of the opening of the first 4 seals.

              I did not yet get the sense of whether you were inclined to believe that the fall of Satan at the time of Christ’s ascension and the parousia were concurrent or the parousia is still yet future?

            • Thinking

              It would make sense if it was an ongoing gallop..right up to this day…
              Richard I am not the one to discuss Revelations with you…but that book does refer back and forward In time….
              I know a few trusted chosen ones…Robert being one of them…but I trust a couple,of’others as well…and they all have differing views or takes on this….and they all sound feasible and correct…
              I’m just going on history and other scriptures and past patterns…..and who am I anyway….
              This is not the forum to chew the fat over this..as it is roberts forum….and out of respect towards him I wouldn’t …..
              E JW is a better forum to chew the fat over such things….also you can PM me there….
              You see on here wether some like to admit it or not…it is not,possible to chew the fat and not be staked..hahahah……Kevin kindly said I may choose to neleive what I wish…but he chooses to beleive the facts…..
              In other words I’m to stupid to work out a fact….lol….I’m not offered ….im past that….but to keep this line of conversation going on here…would not work….
              So if you PM me…or just go to a better place to chew the fat….im more than happy to do that brother….
              And yeah I’d love to hear Avrids thoughts as well….he’s got somthing that man…

            • Richard Long

              I’m not ready to venture out, but thanks for the invite. Rain check?

              I respect your boundary on the fat chewing and would like to add the observation that you seem pretty stake-proof to me. I know I’m the new kid but in just the short time I’ve been around here I have seen huge movement off of positions that echo WT dogma, as in the Black Curtain/WT is gods organization issue awhile back as we all, together make our way through. I think that was a really big deal for all of us, As was Lev’s enlightening commentary on the way things REALLY are in Russia. We are, all of us, moving forward.

            • Thinking

              10 Deadliest World Events In Human History
              SIMON RICKARDS JANUARY 3, 2013
              FacebookTwitterEmail AppSkypeMore1K
              Throughout human history, there have been many world events that have seen a multitude of deaths and widespread destruction. The ten entries on this list are ranked according to the number of deaths. While some of the events spanned just a few years, others occurred over centuries.Since these death toll estimates are always highly disputed, I have made it a rule to use the highest respectable estimate in every case. I have also chosen to focus this list on ‘man-made’ events – natural disasters have not been included.

              10
              Atlantic Slave Trade
              Death Toll Estimate: 15 Million

              Dfa1F9 41C9D01623E80917407470De6839D45F
              
The Atlantic (or Trans-Atlantic) slave trade began roughly in the 16th century, reaching its peak in the 17th century until finally being all but abolished in the 19th Century. The main driving force behind this trade was the need for European empires to establish themselves in the New World. European and American settlers therefore began to use mainly West African slaves to fill the vast labor needs on plantations. Estimates vary on the amount of slaves who died, but it is said that for every ten slaves taken on a ship, four would perish from causes related to mistreatment.

 9
              Late Yuan Warfare & Transition to Ming Dynasty
              Death Toll Estimate: 30 Million

              Mongarch
              
The Yuan dynasty was founded by Kublai Khan, the grandson of Genghis Khan, around 1260. Yuan literally translates as ‘Great is the Heavenly and Primal’, though there proved to be nothing either great or heavenly about it.The dynasty turned out to be one of the shortest-lived in the history of China, covering just a century until it fell in 1368. Chaos reigned during the twilight years of the Yuan Dynasty, and the lands were marked by warring tribes, outlaws, political struggle, famine, and bitterness among the populace. After all this carnage, the Ming Dynasty took control. Their reign is described by some as “one of the greatest eras of orderly government and social stability in human history.”



              8
              An Lushan Rebellion
              Death Toll Estimate: 36 Million

              An-Shi-Rebellion
              
Around 500 years before Yuan, the Tang Dynasty was in control of China. An Lushan – a general in the north of China – sought to take control, and declared himself emperor (creating the Yan Dynasty). The An Lushan rebellion lasted from 755 until 763, when the Yan Dynasty was finally defeated by the Tang empire. Medieval warfare was always a bloody affair – and this rebellion was no exception. Millions died and the Tang Dynasty never fully recovered.

 7
              Taiping Rebellion
              Death Toll Estimate: 40 Million

              Battle Of Sanhe A Major Engagement Of The Taiping Rebellion
              
Jump forward a thousand years and the Chinese are at it again – this time with some help from the French, the British, and some American mercenaries. In 1850, the Qing Dynasty is now in charge of China. They had suffered some major problems before the rebellion, with natural and economic disasters causing havoc – not to mention the Europeans bringing opium addiction to China. So up stepped Hong Xiuquan, who amongst other things claimed to be the younger brother of Jesus Christ. Hong established the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom – and the carnage began. The Taiping Rebellion happened at roughly the same time as the American civil war, though the latter conflict proved to be far less bloody.

 6
              Great Chinese Famine
              Death Toll Estimate: 43 Million

              China-Famine-Great-Leap-Forward
              
Another century later and we’re now in a Communist-led China. The period 1958 to 1961 is also know as ‘the great leap forward’ – and it’s a sombre lesson in what can happen when a government attempts to change a country too quickly.Although droughts and poor weather conditions led to the famine, the disaster can quite easily be seen as a consequence of the government’s attempts to rapidly transform the country from an agrarian economy into a modern communist society. Chinese peasants describe this period as the ‘three bitter years’, which is something of an understatement. Several decades later the Chinese economy became the largest in the world – but at quite a price.

            • Richard Long

              Definitely under consideration, have saved the whole article for reference, Thanks, sheila!

            • Thinking

              She’s right mate!

            • Thinking

              I thought you might enjoy this too…different subject…but it’s good,to look at all points of views and seriously ponder them….this is from Perimeno..and yeah they do differ on something’s……but I guess the time isn’t right yet for all things to be totally understood…..I am not dogmatic brother …I stand back and listen to everybody…:)

              It is clear from Matthew’s and Luke’s accounts that Jesus was speaking about two distinct events, or tribulations, — one that would come upon Jerusalem, namely the coming “days for meting out justice,” where Jesus specifically mentions Jerusalem, Judea and the mountains to flee to; and “the great tribulation,” which he mentions in Matthew chapter 24, which would come upon all mankind. (Luke 21:20-24; Matt. 24:21) He again refers to this great tribulation almost thirty years after the destruction of Jerusalem, in Revelation chapter 7. (Rev. 7:14)

              Please note what is said concerning any survivors of the destruction of Jerusalem, which took place in 70 C.E., that they would “be led captive into all the nations.” (Luke 21:24) But those coming out of “the great tribulation” are seen dressed in white robes, they are before the throne of God and are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple. (Rev. 7:14-17)

              The two events have two entirely different outcomes. The outcome of the one event does not parallel the second event. Therefore, we cannot take everything that Jesus said concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and make a parallel application to the great tribulation yet to come. It takes discernment to distinguish what applied to the destruction of Jerusalem and what Jesus said would take place concerning the great tribulation. Lack of this discernment will lead to unfulfilled expectations and disappointment.

              Contrary to what some are preaching, Jesus did not urge his disciples to leave God’s household and “flee to the mountains,” at some point before the great tribulation begins. Jehovah will not destroy his household of servants the way he destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. Rather, Jesus promised that “in the conclusion of the system of things” he would “collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness.” (Matt. 13:40, 41) The apostle Peter tells us that the righteous within God’s house will be saved, while the ungodly and the sinners, those “who are not obedient to the good news of God,” will perish. (1 Peter 4:17, 18; 2 Thess. 1:7-9)

              The righteous “members of the household of God” will be “the ones that come out of the great tribulation.” They will survive it because they have God’s protection. (Rev. 7:14; Zeph. 2:3) Jesus said to Martha: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25,26) How about you?

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Food for thought

              A good question to ASK ones self is “Did all of these disasters occur with in a generation as Jesus clearly specified would happened?

              If the apocalyptic horsemen have been on the move for the last 2000 years as some claim that would mean Jesus is an outright liar because Jesus clearly said that these apocalyptic events would all accur during a generation.

              Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

              Matthew24:34. Read more> https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/24/#v40024034

              By saying these apocalyptic events occurred 2000 years ago – in reality they are NO better than the watchtower / man of lawlessness and their 1914 scenario especially in view of the Biblical facts which clearly show otherwise.

            • Richard Long

              Hopefully, I expressed myself plainly enough that you know my thinking is aligned with yours on the matter of the parousia being yet future, not discounting the general sense expressed among many here that we may be now at or past the event horizon, seeing the events unfold around us.

              Your concern for me is of great value to me personally. I view you as a pillar, one seeing me in my vulnerability and watching over me to make sure I am not carried off and the knowing you are here is of great comfort.

              My recent encounter with Black Curtain has helped me to see that sometimes the most effective way for me to reach the right conclusion of a matter is to argue as strongly as one can for the wrong conclusion, even when strongly held, and allowing the argument to be examined by others.

              This is me, helping you to know me.

              You are observing the process of one making the truth their own, somewhat like the way Israelite kings were to write their own copy of the law. The “first time through” involved an imitation of that process, one of learning and accepting WT programming and regurgitating it to others. I am determined to never be so gullible or so lazy again. I can- no, I MUST listen and question others rather than shutting them down, even when their assertions seem “out there” to me, because I am trying to get to know them and understand them and their beliefs and the basis for those beliefs as they are in this moment with a mind to making sure of my own newly re-established foundation. The caveat being those whose words give evidence of nefarious intent. No doubt my exchanges with and ultimate decision to block a certain individual have not escaped your notice. But with honest brokers, no matter how misguided, if my hold on the truth is sound, it will withstand discussion.

              When you say: “By saying these apocalyptic events occurred 2000 years ago – in reality they are NO better than the watchtower / man of lawlessness and their 1914 scenario especially in view of the Biblical facts which clearly show otherwise”, you are, of course, undeniably correct. Equally correct is that they are no worse.
              Surely you must already know that seeing the paradox of the WT being both used by Jehovah and Apostate, and the awakening from the delusion of the false parousia do not instantaneously disabuse of us of all false “understanding” connected to the false parousia, as these misunderstanding have been compounded and expounded so expansively and insidiously into the farthest reaches our minds. We will likely not know the full extent of the damage done until the revelation or perhaps even beyond that. Meanwhile, the bathwater having been thrown out still clings to the baby in droplets that must be carefully and individually wiped away, No? I believe even Robert would say he too has some measure of delusion residual, he simply having worked longer and harder at ridding himself of it is afflicted by far, far less of it than others among us, myself specifically.

              Another way you are of great blessing to me personally is your tireless work as the unofficial “historian” and “librarian” of this space. Before jumping into the fray here, I had time to read only a fraction of the highly valuable content in the archives, mailbag, etc. Now that I am engaged here and especially as we consider the happenings in the world together, time is even shorter and it is such a blessing when you redirect us to material previously considered by Robert so that I can become informed on what has already been discussed prior to my arrival. I was originally somewhat frustrated when Robert was quiet on certain subjects, but through your gentle nudges, I have found these to subjects he has already spoken on, either in articles or the ensuing discussions, which I take time to read also when you direct us to an article. One example of this is when I publicly stated how I imagined Robert dealt with the Memorial given his persona non grata status with the congregations. Unbeknownst to me, he had spoken on the matter previously some time ago, and therefore had nothing more to say on the matter at the occurrence of my commenting. I would not know this had I not been following up a link you offered on a totally unrelated subject some weeks later.

              If you were never an elder, you are most certainly now a shepherd and I trust you. Please never refrain from providing counsel to me personally where you see the need.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Richard, I endorse every good thing you have said regarding Kevin. Kevin is quietly authoritative and humble and one whom I have enormous admiration and respect for.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Richard you had expressed yourself quite clearly and I see we are on the same page.

              I just wanted to share more scriptural evidence to show you that you are going in the right direction however you should never really take my word for it because I make many mistakes even though I’d tried to be as thorough as possible so with that being said I will exalt you to always make sure of all things as the Apostle Paul instructed us to do.

              Also I appreciate your compliments thank you but always keep in mind that all thanks belongs to Jehovah OUR great GOD for his wonderful provisions that he has provided through his son Jesus Christ.
              P.S. If you ever have any questions or you need to find a particular article you should always feel free to ask me or anyone else for assistance as it would be our pleasure.

            • L.H.

              I agree with you br. Kevin. And if the four horsemen are riding for 2000 years now, wouldn’t that image Jesus as a very weak person, 2000 years not able to conquer the other three horseman? I think that is exactly how Satan wants to image Jesus.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              L.H. Good point!

            • Jamie Mac

              Love that logic L.H

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Thinking. I certainly cannot argue with you about the wickedness and evil that has abounded since the days of Cain and Abel. Satan has certainly been busy much to the detriment of mankind.

              I can’t quite follow your logic when it comes to the ‘Striking Observableness’ though as I believe this in in reference to the Kingdom, not Satan’s ( or Santa as Burt thought I had typed originally ) ouster from heaven where it will be quite the opposite according to scripture.

              Also, you are correct in stating know one knows what is going to happen exactly and how, although there will come a time when Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant. Obviously, we have not reached that point yet.

              Here’s a thought though, if Robert is correct about his being anointed, then his articles will cease suddenly. Could that perhaps be an indicator of Jesus’s return. This is probably the silliest remark I have made, but their might be some credence to it.

            • Thinking

              Okay that’s a good point about the striking onservablmess…I will go back and recheck that in the light of your words….but just off my head here…wouldn’t it still sort of mean the same thing…???mayvye not huh?…that’s my homework for today. ..but I always read that as the end when Jesus returns…..but I will definetly look,again at that…

              As far as Robert Perimeno and a few others I know disappearing …hahahah that’s not a silly thought at all….I have even thought that but dared not say it…hahaha
              The thing I cannot get my head around is how are they all going to be found to be killed,off…..what about the chosen one who lives in a little known village and doesn’t even have access to computers etc…..like another JOB out there ….
              So much has yet to unfold
              It’s the sequence of events I have trouble getting right……santa sure is confusing us hey ..hahahaha

            • Joseph

              Good morning, The way I understand it is that they are filled with holy spirit and torment the ungodly world for five months……. something like that.

              So the people demand them to be brought in and handed over to the governmental agencies where they are put to death.

              Just like they did to our Lord and Savior

              https://youtu.be/rFrh8vKMM80

            • Thinking

              Thank you so much for that my dear brother….I see that clearer now…hope you are well..xxx

            • Huldah

              Good insight on the tormenting for 5 months.
              You can back that up too by what happened to Steven.
              He received extra holy spirit, prophesied against the Pharisees and was killed for it. Interesting find.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Joseph. Great comment. I guess no-one in authority likes to be told the game is almost up, as the message being preached then will not be one of hope for them.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Thinking, Blame Burt for Santa 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              That’s an interesting point about Robert et al disappearing, but is that not at the same time at a point whereby communication would be visual and spiritual and guided by angels and Christ and the 144,000? I have absolutely no idea, other than I probably have a lot of people rattling around my head already!

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Burt, Robert has left a text message informing us that he is going to take a break and that he has house guests. Wonder who his house guests are?.

              Suppose his break becomes permanent. I bet Robert is having a quite giggle to himself when he reads these comments about him going awol.

              There is a lighter side on every subject 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              I expect ‘house guests’ is just code to let us know he has been jailed and we need to go and visit him. I expect he is in Leavenworth or Rikers Island. Better go and visit him and make sure he is fed and clothed. Come to think of it, it’s probably the best place to be come world war three. Those walls are pretty thick.

            • Burt Reynolds

              You know Jamie, I can’t help but wonder that our musings on the scriptures are tantamount to playing with the fuse of an atomic bomb. Who would fathom that taking a single atom and exchanging one electron from it with another, would unleash energy hotter than the surface of the sun? Yet here we are, taunting Satan, (or Santa) and guessing the intention of Jehovah from a figurative ‘ladybird book of the atom’ for children. The enormity of it is so great it is almost meaningless to mortal man. I suppose that is why Jehovah told us just to love one another and have faith. That much we can manage….just. I do hope your new job is working out for you. It must be such a relief. I’ve been there once or twice myself. I was ‘retired’ and replaced with a robot. Her name was Bel, short for Belinda, and she sure rang as hollow as one. To add insult to injury, she was a ‘happy clapper’ ( ha! Bel….happy ‘clapper’…unintentional pun there!), evangelist but I suppose I should not deride faith in any form, but it’s a bitter pill to swallow.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Burt, thanks for asking about the new job. It’s going fine, I am very tired when I return home in the evening. I have to concentrate almost all the time. But it will get easier.

              So looking forward to the day when those which are invited or have earned the right to be part of Jehovah’s kingdom, will get real meaningful, rewarding work. When after a days work you will feel satisfied and at the end of the day we can sleep not dreading the next day or have to worry about money etc, etc, etc. The Monday morning feeling will not be present. At the same time growing fitter, stronger and healthier with each passing day until we reach perfection.

              If I quoted those word above to 99% of the world’s population they would probably think I had lost it and was going mad. But, we know, they are not fanciful words but are based on truth and they will certainly come true.

            • Thinking

              No Burt …Satan CANNOT do it now….he’s not allowed to…Jehovah is allowing him a certain amount of freedom as he is god of this system…
              Having been awarded that legal right by Eve and Adams decision…and no Burt…not every single man will feel the wrath of satan as you describe…because then the scriptures would be wrong ….for it will be just like the days of Noah’s ..eating and drinking and men marrying and taking no note…also it says it is not coming with STRIKING OBSEVABLNESS……

              YOu speak so easily….is this the best he can do….have you been tortured to death…have you seen your loved ones killed and raped and skinned alive…have you experienced thousand of thousand if not millions walking dead as they died of manlnutrition….Burt you and I live in countries of relative peace and comfort…the bigger part of the world does not…thus it is easy to be blinded as to really how bad satan has made it ..the evilness he has and does inflict on the majority of mankind…
              This is where satan is so sneaky and sly..he has blinded so many as to the extend of his cruelness and wickedness…..you are talking of just a little dot in history that YOU have seen…..aaaah satan has fooled mankind so much..even us it seems …

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yes, there is a lot in what you say Thinking, though when I said ‘is this the best he can do?’ I was referring to the amount he will do, compared with what he does now. Yes, I understand that he has some power now and that is restrained and so I suppose the arguement is where it is from at this time. So too I realise I or we live in relative comfort but I’m not blind to the suffering of people in this world and your and indignation and disgust in it is so rightly placed. I don’t think anyone would disagree with you on that score. I agree that not all of us are affected by it at this time, yet that is the very point I was trying to make, probably somewhat clumsily, but that in future we all will be; maybe we disagree on that but it is of no matter to argue about, but is good to consider lest we do get caught up in deceit as you point out. I suppose overall, I should have just said we have not seen anything like that which we are going to see, and left it at that. Where Satan…or Santa is doing it from, will seem the least of our worries….cobber!

            • Thinking

              Lol…xx

          • Richard Long

            Can’t say I agree on 1st century fall, but do believe we should keep talking about it. I’m really eager to see what Arvid will write in answer to my post above. Thank you for insisting that we keep talking about it. (still cant get a grasp on Perimeno, though, but it seems his heart is right.) We are far too conditioned by the either/or thought process employed by the WT, which is useful for basic truth, also being applied to prophesy where it is perhaps not so useful. Especially knowing as we now do that the WT has been, is, and yet will be either AND or on any and everything prophetic, depending on which way the wind blows their flickering candle of “new light”. For me, given the whole delusion experience, better to not understand than to misunderstand.

            • Thinking

              I don’t know about the first century fall either…lol….I am just exploring that avenue and line of thought….no one has it all correct…otherwise why would we need the two witnesses…and the out pouring of holy spirt that Joel talks about….im not cocky about anything…but I think we may have a few surprises ahead even for all of us…
              I’m actually prepared for either way…but at this time..I think he’s here…until I am convinced otherwise ….poor Brotjer Avrid misunderstood Roberts post..I didn’t ….and I was simply expressing my view with him…and as I’m not a scholar of the scriptures or an intellectual or invited one ….I have to think much more carefully than those ones ….and that’s what I’m doing…

    • Richard Long

      Arvid, while I am inclined to mirror the statement below by Burt to Jamie Mac, I AM, at the same time very interested in hearing the basis for your assessment that Satan has already fallen from heaven. First, please clarify if your assertion is that we are just now or recently entered the parousia or is your view more like that expressed below by Thinking that said fall occurred more contemporary with Christ’s 1st century ascension to heaven? Or perhaps tying the parousia and the ouster of Satan from heaven should not be viewed as concurrent events?

      • Arvid Fløysand

        Hello Richard
        I am sorry for late reply…i have been very busy lately and i do not open my e-mail every day.
        I am just like everyone else…what my heart is full of..i speak…so when i said that i belive satan is already been hurled out of heaven…it actually came out of a heart full of hope in this…there was some personal things earlier that same day that made me react like i did when i opened Roberts site and was reading this article …it made me so happy..thats the reason why i wrote that comment…i am also well aware that no one can trust the heart..
        But i am not able to hold back the great feeling of joy,thinking about the hurling out of satan from heaven…and if he is not already out..he will be…Jesus considerate this like something as good as done and over with ,already when he heard the good news from those 70 .
        Luk.10:18 “I see satan already fallen like lightening from heaven”
        How did He feel about it?…Luk.10:21″In that very our he became overjoyed……”

        It is ore will be a great event when the most holy is cleansed …

        But our main focus must be to belive the truth and have faith…not in humans,because we are wrong so often,but Jehovah and Jesus are never wrong and never late..always right and just in time with everything.
        From time to time we must reset ourselves and remember that the pure truth is actually very simple and easy for all to understand…maybe it is typical for us humans to complicate it?
        It is very comforting for all of us to read what Jesus further said in Luk.10:21″I publicly praise You,Father,Lord of heaven and earth,because You have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual once and have revealed them to young children:”

        All comes down to this:Matt.22:37-40….Its about cultivating our heart and mind to love..:-)

  • Max

    I do not think this article is saying that Satan has already been thrown down from heaven. Satan has already fallen from heaven… I think it means that the disciples were already seeing the effects of the kingdom and even then they were able to subject spirits to themselves. In that sence Santan had already fallen like lightning from heaven. Because in Jesus ayes the devil was then already defeated. But it doesn’t mean that Satan is already here on earth. But I always asked myself if Satan is the god of this world and is he who really governs;then, is he able to make a human body for himself? He must have a channel how he operates here on earth? Any thoughts?

    • Sam Knight

      My opinion.. we can only realistically rely on what the scriptures tell us. A good clue is from the book of Daniel. Satan’s influence is spiritual and invisible to us.
      Did that change when he was cast to earth?
      If it did I would need to see scriptural proof of that. As far as I’m concerned his being cast down to earth simply means he no longer has access to roam the courts of heaven as described in Job.

      • Bklyn Kevin

        How will we know when Satan is cast down?.
        Excerpt:
        As regards your video The Beginning and the End, how do you know that Satan and his angels were not thrown out of heaven in 1914? And if it happens in the future, how will we know it?.

        So, in answer to the question how will we know when Satan and his angels have been cast down?

        When the Anglo-American system crashes. From the ashes will arise a dictatorial monster. Then Jehovah’s Witnesses will be confronted with an enraged beast. Needless to say, then everything that is presently taught by the Watchtower connected to 1914 and ardently believed to be God’s sacred truth, will be discarded as the nonsense it is. Read more>
        https://e-watchman.com/will-know-satan-cast/

        • Francis Bencharles

          You are correct Sir! I don’t even think the Goveerning Body believes that bs about 1914 anymore. They just know they are between a rock and a hard place and don’t know what to do. They will not admit that was a mistake though I fear.

          Frank

      • Thinking

        That is a very interesting point because he’s roamed the earth even when Jesus was here….hmmmmm

    • can demons turn rods into snakes?
      can humans clone things?

      how much better can ancient spirit creatures do what humans are capable of?

    • Jordan Seager

      If Satan had already been cast to earth, I reckon there’d be a greatly increased amount of chaos on the planet to this day. As humans, it took nearly 4000 years to have a world war, imagine Satan, a spirit creature having the entire works of this system imminently at his disposal. I think the rise to power he’ll be capable of will happen so quick that it will be too much to comprehend for the human mind.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Who were the spirits in prison to whom Jesus “preached”?
      Excerpt:
      The “eternal bonds” and “chains” and Tartarus mean the same thing as prison. The angels who came down before the Flood are also referred to as the sons of God in the sixth chapter of Genesis.

      The restraint imposed upon the angels who rebelled likely prevents them from materializing again, as they did before the Flood. Apparently when the Deluge began the angels were forced to dissolve their flesh and leave their wives and sons behind to drown in the raging waters. After returning to the spirit dimension Jehovah condemned them as outcasts of his family in heaven. They became Satan’s angels – demons, who are bent on misleading mankind away from the truth, as they await their final fate during the great day. Read more> https://e-watchman.com/spirits-prison-jesus-preached/

      Also read> Search results for: Tartarus. https://e-watchman.com/?s=Tartarus

  • Luis Meriño Vásquez

    Robert… are you saying or should we think that you are saying that Satan has been already hurled down from Heaven? Please clarify.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Excerpt:
      Jesus once sent out 70 of his disciples, who had only had a few months of training under his tutelage, with the message to declare that the Kingdom of the heavens had drawn near. Jesus empowered them to perform healing and expel the demons. When the disciples returned from their original missionary assignment and reported to their master that the demons had in fact been made subject to them, the account says that Jesus became overjoyed and exclaimed: “I see Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven. Look! I have given you the authority to trample underfoot serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing at all will harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice because the spirits are made subject to you, but rejoice because your names have been written in the heavens.”

      Jesus was not saying that Satan had been exiled from heaven at that time. We know that could not be the case since the book of the disclosure of the things that must shortly take place —Revelation, which was written long after Jesus had departed the earth —envisions the overthrow of Satan from heaven occurring as an immediate consequence of the coming to power of the Kingdom of Christ. What Jesus meant was, that because the disciples had been given authority over the demons, it was not only a demonstration of Jehovah’s power, but a guarantee that the little flock would ultimately attain the Kingdom the Father had promised and that Satan would be crushed under their feet in the future, as Paul indicated in the 16th chapter of Romans.

    • no satan has not been outstered just yet but we can clearly see the world stage being set for these last days and we can go by a few scriptures that will give us an idea of jehovah’s prophetic time table.

      Daniel 11:27
      “As regards these two kings, their heart will be inclined to do what is bad, and they will sit at one table speaking lies to each other. But nothing will succeed, because the end is yet for the time appointed.

      Mark 13:7
      Moreover, when you hear of wars and reports of wars, do not be alarmed; these things must take place, but the end is not yet.

      Habakkuk 2:3
      For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late!

      Revelation 12:9
      So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

      2 Thessalonians 2:3
      Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

      Matthew 24:36
      “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

      these scriptures say a lot as specially now just take a look at the watchtower and its Hypocritical hypocrisy concerning all the sex abuse trials. we can clearly see a man of lawlessness hard at work in misleading many brothers and sisters within the organization. if you take a close look at the WT and some of there dealings today we can most assuredly see the apostasy not long off in the future. if i am correct satan will be hurled down in the ladder half of the week the exact time i do not know but we can see that it can not be long off now.

  • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

    It’s a bit of a stretch to assume that Satan has infact been evicted entirely. One. Things have not changed all that much over the years, even after considering the real reason the US dropped atomic weapons on japan, the truth behind that is that was not the real reason for there surrender, a little known fact is the ministry of japan looked upon there leader as a God and they would have never surrendered until the US aggreed to not Hang the Emperiour in a public spectacle. Another reason the Japanese didn’t even know or care the US Dropped the weapons until days later.So another lie lays bare that that was not the reason of surrender the truth behind the weapon being unleashed was to show Russia and other countries that the US now possessed a weapon that made other weapons appear as toys. Thus the Cold war was definitely on the horizon. So does that mean Satan has been evicted? Hardly! From world war II onward wars have been instigated by the weapons manufactures its called big business, and as Roberts mentioned for the oil barons to impose there illustrious empirical stronghold on the glow to suppress countries that may pose a potential threat. So no the assumption that Satan has been ousted couldn’t be further from reality. The Sciptures are absolute, when Satan is actually thrown out there will be a time of such unimaginable distress in the earth knowing he has a short time, it will be like a person being fired,thrown out and he will bring his anger against the whole world with his birds to crush humans out of existence not just Jehovah’s people.then you will know for sure he’s been thrown to the earth!

    • the GT is the day of Jehovah, no?

      (i guess day means 1y but w/e)

      Robert has pointed out the begining of the GT is the ouster of Satan from heaven.

      that coincides with “the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ”. “and our being gathered together to him,” so the prophets said “we request of YOU not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal messaged or through a lettere as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.”

      so i would guess his ouster “will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”

      idk but the point is ‘not to be quickly shaken from OUR reason’

    • Marisa Gomez

      There is a post called: “How will we know when Satan is cast down?”
      What is the answer?

      • when the dyad falls into the abyss

      • Francis Bencharles

        You won’t know when he is cast down as he does not immediately cause a discernable disturbance or that would also alert us to the arrival of the Kingdom of God as they happen somewhat simultaneously.

        “So down the great dragon+ was hurled, the original serpent,+ the one called Devil+ and Satan,+ who is misleading the entire inhabited earth;+ he was hurled down to the earth,+ and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
        (((“Now have come to pass the salvation+ and the power and the Kingdom of our God+ and the authority of his Christ))), because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!” Revelation 12

        So, the Kingdom of God and the power of Christ starts when Satan is cast out of heaven down onto the earth.

        On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming,+ he answered them: “The Kingdom of God is (((not coming with striking observableness;))) 21 nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.”*+Luke 17: 20, 21

        If we could tell when Satan was cast out by observing he does in a striking way, then we would defy Like 21, so we will not know when Satan is cast out. But he will throw a welcomming party when Jesus comes in the form of monstrous bombs and destruction and the start of the worst World War in Man’s history. When you see that happen, you will both know that Satan is down here permanently till his trip to Gehenna ans that the Kingdom of God has formally begun. It’s about 3 weeks away by my imperfect calculations.

  • Marc Tilley

    Surely the ousting of Satan will immediately trigger serious and visible ‘woe’for the earth?

    • Brian

      You would have to think so.

    • Immediately, but not necessarily instantaneous. The time of the end begins with a “pushing” between the kings of the north and south, which then escalates into a storm of war. So, the “pushing” phase may not be so obvious.

      • Marc Tilley

        But wouldnt the pushing precede the ousting of Satan??

      • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

        It appears there will be signs, otherwise why would the Angel say the words which appear to be directed to God’s people ” Woe for earth and the sea.for the Devil has come down to you having great anger!. Sounds like we will know I mean who else is he speaking to?.

      • Richard Long

        And MAY, in fact, be happening now?

      • Marisa Gomez

        But k unyou said we will know when Satan is cast down because the economic system will collapse. https://e-watchman.com/will-know-satan-cast/

    • Francis Bencharles

      You won’t know when Satan is cast out, but in time he will have to let us know who is in charge and there will be no doubt. See my comment to Marisa Gomez above. Follow the logic.

  • I’ll try again…

    ‘E-Watchman’ states:

    ‘…the City of London is desperate to prevent any alliance of America, Russia and China, which is/was in the works.’

    In

    fact, ‘E-Watchman’ frequently refers to London and the British, and has
    developed an intricate, artfully contrived, theology based upon this
    narrative. I suppose it has been made easier by the Watchtower Society
    interpreting the seven heads of one of the wild beast of Revelation as
    various world empires – the British Empire included; although supposedly
    later eclipsed by the American.

    In actuality, much of what is stated by ‘E-Watchman’ as respects the British Empire and it’s supposed
    struggle with America, much of this seems to have been developed from the political ideas of a man called Lyndon LaRouche.

    Recently, the following was written over at the larouchepac website:

    ‘President
    Trump is driving the British Empire and its satrapies in the US and
    around the world into a state of utter panic. He is rejecting the
    “special relationship” between the U.S. and the British… The “free
    world vs Godless Communism” myth has crumbled, as Trump openly promotes
    friendship with Russia and China.’

    &

    ‘Lyndon LaRouche
    today warned that there is a British-run coup d’etat in process against
    the Trump administration in the United States… It’s the British
    bastards who duped President Trump into attacking Syria, with their lies
    and false intelligence, LaRouche charged. We have to destroy the
    British system and all their interests in the U.S., he stated’

    The rationalwiki … has the following to say about LaRouche:

    ‘Lyndon
    Hermyle LaRouche, Jr. (b. 1922) is a very special kind of American
    political animal, a perennial candidate for President and the ultimate
    wingnut/moonbat, encompassing both the extreme left and extreme
    right…LaRouche is a perpetual office seeker who has run for President
    eight times. For a while, he lived under heavy guard in a rural
    Virginia compound, where he operated his own… loony—but thankfully
    ineffective—political machine in a manner freakishly similar to a
    religious cult. Many of his political workers are young adults who think
    LaRouche, and only LaRouche, knows what needs to be done to Save The
    World…

    The underlying theme used as the basis for nearly all of
    LaRouche’s actions stems from the conspiracy theory he has embraced for
    most of his political career: the idea that the Royal monarchy still
    rules the world-spanning British Empire, and that we are all still
    slaves to England. The difference is that instead of overtly ruling the
    member nations of its empire, the British monarchy secretly controls the
    world’s governments from behind the scenes. He also thinks rock &
    roll, especially The Beatles, is a British intelligence plot to lead us
    into a dark age, and only classical music played in C=256 Hz Verdi
    tuning can bring about a new political and cultural renaissance, and
    that Harry Potter and Pokémon are cults reprogramming children’s brains
    to commit acts of violence…’

    I think you get the idea. However,
    I’m not certain that I’d want to put much faith in a theology built
    around the political ravings of an individual such as this man appears
    to be (check out the Wiki, etc., yourself).

    As for Luke 10:18:

    And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:18, AV)

    It
    is evident that Jesus Christ, in his prehuman existence, beheld Satan
    fall from heaven. The fact of the matter is that Satan and the fallen
    angels have been restricted to the Earth’s atmosphere ever since the
    time of the flood. This is confirmed in 2 Peter 2:4, and Jude 1:6:

    For
    if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell
    [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved
    unto judgment; (2 Peter 2:4)

    And the angels which kept not their
    first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in
    everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
    (Jude 1:6)

    Incidentally, the account of Job is written in story
    form, and the apparent conversation between Satan and God is to be
    considered as allegorical.

  • Evidently the so called ‘E-Watchman’ doesn’t like my comments I have tried to post twice. I guess he is no friend of free speech.

    • Daisy

      i don’t have a problem commenting here but I guess that’s because I’ve an innocuous name and an identifying face not a Masonic cross and crown or wrong motives when I do so.

      • Innocuous name, eh? What’s wrong with ‘Millennial Dawn’? I thought Jehovah’s Witnesses were awaiting the millennial reign of Jesus Christ? Weird.

        And I’m not certain about the so called ‘Masonic cross and crown’ to which you refer. Check you facts and you will find this symbol is used by many Christian groups that have no affiliation with Freemasonry. Besides, why would a picture prevent a comment being posted?

        In actual fact, it is nothing to do with either of the objections you raise, except the latter – which you describe as being ‘wrong motives’.

        How do you know I have wrong motives, in fact, what do you even mean by ‘wrong motives’? Surely it’s the host of this website who should be considered as having ‘wrong motives’ – that of taking Jehovah’s Witnesses away from the Watchtower Society, or, at the very least, to get them to accept his interpretation of scripture over and above that taught by their Governing Body.

        Whereas, my motives are simply to discuss the Bible, and point out the truth. As well as provide insight into where ‘E-Watchman’ has taken much of his inspiration (I’m not certain it’s from the Holy Spirit either).

        I guess it’s OK for him, and others to express their opinions freely, but, like the Watchtower Society, there is no freedom for others to express their opinions. A mini-Governing Body all in one man.

        • Jamie Mac

          Hi Millennial Dawn, what is the truth?

        • Beverly kenyon

          No Dawn, you check your facts. Brother King has always encouraged any lost sheep JW to go back to meetings and stay in their congregations and he himself tries to attend meetings if possible. And no he doesn’t GET anyone to accept what he writes…they either do or they don’t when they find this site. Reading your snide nasty comments is showing your true motives and it’s NOT simply to discuss the Bible as you say, it’s to drag people down Brother King being your main target. He’s let you express your opinion as I can clearly read your post so what you moaning and whining about?! You want to act superior and pick a fight and that is your real motive and you know what it really is tedious and boring! Yawn! Shoo!

          • Actually, he hasn’t let me express my comments. On two occasions he has deliberately reported my comments as SPAM, knowing full well they were *not* spam comments. He simply didn’t like the contents and so deviously chose to have them blocked. It’s his connection with Lyndon LaRouche that he doesn’t want exposed.

            • Thanks for that! It’s surprising, in view of the fact that the so called ‘E-Watchman’ has actually revealed his inspiration for his fanciful interpretations of prophecy, that he blocked my comments on two occasions – apparently, on the third occasion, he permitted the comments to be displayed. He must have noticed how his followers have come running to defend him, and would probably defend him come-what-may.

              Perhaps he initially feared that Lyndon LaRouche being exposed as some crazy, criminal, ‘wingnut’ would harm his position. But has since realised that the fan-base on this blog is so, shall we say loyal, they’ll swallow pretty much anything.

            • clearly you dont know much.
              all anyone need to do is read
              this comment of yours.

              my advice, read more and know what
              youre talking about so you dont make yourself out to look foolish

            • Joseph of Aramathea

              Did you just Fart…………https://youtu.be/OO4dl0bGQNY

            • Jamie Mac

              lol, good job that was posted after the watershed, or to put it another way after the children have been tucked up in bed. 🙂

            • Bklyn Kevin

              ” POW” Lol’

            • Joseph of Aramathea
            • Burt Reynolds

              Joseph, you are as ever, always a breath of fresh air.

            • Jamie Mac

              Joseph, every time I scroll past that image it makes me smile. There is something about the human occupation of passing wind that makes me giggle anyway. Jehovah must have a wonderful sense of humour.

            • Jamie Mac

              Joseph, every time I scroll past this image it makes me giggle. I cannot stop laughing at some of those clips. It had me in tears.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Joseph, even now,after a month, I am giggling

            • I have not marked your posts as spam, if I had they would not be displaying here. However, since you are intent on picking a fight, I have decided to ban you. How about that?

            • Beverly kenyon

              If that’s true, perhaps Brother King thought your comments weren’t worthy of a reply so don’t take offence….you’ll get over it! And so what if Brother King has a connection with Lyndon LaRouche. It must be good to have interesting contacts, Jesus knew all sorts of interesting people and so did the Apostle Paul but it doesn’t mean to see that they were followers of those people.

    • youre free to speech and Robert is free to block your comnent. free speech doesnt mean we have to hear you and that youre entitled to be heard on a site belonging to its owner. we aught to know. we knock on doors that shut in out face as we exercise our free speech in public streets

    • Richard Long

      Grow up. No Templar Knights allowed!

  • Third tile lucky..

    ‘E-Watchman’ states:

    ‘…the City of London is desperate to prevent any alliance of America, Russia and China, which is/was in the works.’

    In

    fact, ‘E-Watchman’ frequently refers to London and the British, and has
    developed an intricate, artfully contrived, theology based upon this
    narrative. I suppose it has been made easier by the Watchtower Society
    interpreting the seven heads of one of the wild beast of Revelation as
    various world empires – the British Empire included; although supposedly
    later eclipsed by the American.

    In actuality, much of what is stated by ‘E-Watchman’ as respects the British Empire and it’s supposed
    struggle with America, much of this seems to have been developed from the political ideas of a man called Lyndon LaRouche.

    Recently, the following was written over at the larouchepac website:

    ‘President

    Trump is driving the British Empire and its satrapies in the US and
    around the world into a state of utter panic. He is rejecting the
    “special relationship” between the U.S. and the British… The “free
    world vs Godless Communism” myth has crumbled, as Trump openly promotes
    friendship with Russia and China.’

    &

    ‘Lyndon LaRouche
    today warned that there is a British-run coup d’etat in process against
    the Trump administration in the United States… It’s the British
    b******s who duped President Trump into attacking Syria, with their lies
    and false intelligence, LaRouche charged. We have to destroy the
    British system and all their interests in the U.S., he stated’

    The rationalwiki … has the following to say about LaRouche:

    ‘Lyndon
    Hermyle LaRouche, Jr. (b. 1922) is a very special kind of American
    political animal, a perennial candidate for President and the ultimate
    wingnut/moonbat, encompassing both the extreme left and extreme
    right…LaRouche is a perpetual office seeker who has run for President
    eight times. For a while, he lived under heavy guard in a rural
    Virginia compound, where he operated his own… loony—but thankfully
    ineffective—political machine in a manner freakishly similar to a
    religious cult. Many of his political workers are young adults who think
    LaRouche, and only LaRouche, knows what needs to be done to Save The
    World…

    The underlying theme used as the basis for nearly all of
    LaRouche’s actions stems from the conspiracy theory he has embraced for
    most of his political career: the idea that the Royal monarchy still
    rules the world-spanning British Empire, and that we are all still
    slaves to England. The difference is that instead of overtly ruling the
    member nations of its empire, the British monarchy secretly controls the
    world’s governments from behind the scenes. He also thinks rock &
    roll, especially The Beatles, is a British intelligence plot to lead us
    into a dark age, and only classical music played in C=256 Hz Verdi
    tuning can bring about a new political and cultural renaissance, and
    that Harry Potter and Pokémon are cults reprogramming children’s brains
    to commit acts of violence…’

    I think you get the idea. However,
    I’m not certain that I’d want to put much faith in a theology built
    around the political ravings of an individual such as this man appears
    to be (check out the Wiki, etc., yourself).

    As for Luke 10:18:

    And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:18, AV)

    It
    is evident that Jesus Christ, in his prehuman existence, beheld Satan
    fall from heaven. The fact of the matter is that Satan and the fallen
    angels have been restricted to the Earth’s atmosphere ever since the
    time of the flood. This is confirmed in 2 Peter 2:4, and Jude 1:6:

    For
    if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell
    [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved
    unto judgment; (2 Peter 2:4)

    And the angels which kept not their
    first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in
    everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
    (Jude 1:6)

    Incidentally, the account of Job is written in story
    form, and the apparent conversation between Satan and God is to be
    considered as allegorical.

  • Jim

    Fearful times. For sure….

  • Marc Tilley

    So to clarify, is Brother King saying that he personally, is assuming that Satan has been thrown down? I’m assuming he is…. which to be honest, is a surprise to me.

    • All I am saying is it is possible, with all of the talk of war, the sudden reversal of Trump, so one day he is bombing Syria, the next gearing up to go after North Korea, it seems like the world is being run off a cliff

      • Marc Tilley

        Thanks for clarifying, some real food for thought…

      • Burt Reynolds

        The power of the truth and the hope it carries! I feel it is helpful to alert others to possibilities. How else would we keep on the watch therefore? When I was at work, I had to be exacting when relating the facts , for legal reasons of course. But I was also required to give a professional opinion, so I used to head that paragraph under ‘Opinion’, so as to distinguish such from the known facts. What would be my use otherwise? Someone has to speak out the issues and what they mean! People are left in no doubt then, that they have to form their own opinion of an opinion (or thought, or sense of what is happening in the case…critically, what we called ‘evidence indicators’ ) based on the facts and references given in my report. In so doing, they therefore have to check that opinion with the facts of the case as written. Thus they then come to ‘own’ their judgement for themselves. That way, the responsibility is placed firmly on the one making the judgement, representing the law, and not on the author of the report, even though the accuracy of such is expected to be unimpeachable but at the same time, leeway is given for humanity within the ‘opinion’. However, it is not my place to teach anyone to suck eggs.

      • Francis Bencharles

        Who knows, this may be the proverbial pushing and shoving?

  • Burt Reynolds

    Annie in reply to your post, you can repost all my correspondence anywhere you choose. I care not and would gladly repeat it. Contrary to what you may say about people being brave to enter this site and to comment, my own experience was one of true love and tolerance, not least from yourself. The reason being, that when people explained Scripture to me, rather than their thoughts on scripture, I could see the truth in it. Francis and Victor have only their thoughts to impart. There is a difference. I had a lot of questions to reason through, and was kindly met. In fact, it has been a great witness to me and I felt so welcome. It is something I shall never forget. Your bitterness is understandable but you do not need me to tell you that you have been decieved. Had you chosen to acknowledge your slip, and that you had been decieved, I am sure Robert would have welcomed you, as would everyone, but instead you choose to cover your mistake by calling him a viper. It may interest you to know that vipers never bite people unless you tread on them! As for Victor and Francis, if you are able to defend the indefensible, then your command of English would defy even Churchill, judging by the content of their argument. Fortunately for me, I do not have to defend the bible. It speaks for itself. Seeing as you have spoilt your relationships here for the time being, and Victor cannot help you, then your only avenue is to seek it of Jehovah, and that really is the best place to go when you are alone in prison.

    • Richard Long

      I guess there’s SOME backstory here, huh!? No need to fill in details, I get the gist of it. We’re actually MORE out in the open here than at the hall.

    • Jeffrey John Bagust

      I am so glad that I have been called out of the world. I started to attend the JWs last April. I have slackened off, but I could see the war drums on the horizon. The US govt is starting to draft young women. As a former evangelical Bible student I gave up a career as a pastor to be a JW. I did for the young women, so that that did not have to go to war.

      • Thinking

        Good for you brother … very encouraging

  • Marc Tilley

    This has certainly got my mind working overtime this article…. now wondering about the ‘pushing’…. how do we know that this pushing happens at the beginning of the ‘time of the end’? Certainly makes sense that it would precede a war, but is it WW3/ Great Tribulation marking very definitely the ousting of Satan? Or is it the prelude to the war of Armageddon?

    Is this prophecy in Daniel 11 written more or less chronologically, because if it is the preceding verses have yet to happen.

  • Bklyn Kevin
    • Burt Reynolds

      This is certainly a good example. I think the tendancy is for people to judge the issue by their own standards, and which is quite understandable. I keep in mind the scripture that tells us that what is coming has never been experienced before, nor will be experienced again. If all the horrors we have seen to date and have been going on for millennia are not new, then what is coming, must be something far worse. I cannot see why folks think Satan has been let loose all this time when what is to come has not been seen yet. I can’t see either, how it benefits knowldge to say that his is already here, because it throws the prophesy out of kilter with the supporting scripture.

      • Bklyn Kevin

        Peple need to keep in mind that Satan the devil is still the ruler of this world and that’s why there has always been wars along with food shortages etc, but does that mean Satan the devil has been ousted yet? No It most certainly does not

        But what some don’t realize is that’s just the primer to the climax of satan’s ouster from the heavens I mean if they think it is bad now just wait until Satan the devil is oustered in the very near future and then they will truly know what bad really is.

        Talking World War Three, the Apocalypse, Jehovah’s Witnesses and the man of lawlessness
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8mN0NI7SiM&t=176s

        The New World Order – Why Resistance is Futile! .
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC5k_MvL0LA&t=609s

      • Thinking

        No it doesn’t….that day you are talking about is Armaggeddon…and there will be no other day like that…

  • Frank Haensel

    Question is, where are you safer when the GT strikes! In the “world” or the WT org.(can´t call it the truth anymore)
    After 40 years I decided to leave – fade away. My wife and girls are still JW.
    After seeing what happened during the storm in the Phillipines can any of you truly trust the elders or the organization.
    My conscience made it unbearable for me to to sit in the meetings – UN, child abuse, profit greed – idolatry to name but a few of the factors that almost made me vomit spiritually. I would have made a clean break BUT my family is still in the grasp of Wachtower Corp. – but I digress!
    Like I asked Robert a few times – where do we go? There will be no place to hide will there. How will our true faith be tested? Any ideas?

    • Arvid Fløysand

      Hello Frank ,and welcome to this site 🙂
      I firmly belive that all those who by heart know Jehovah will be safe where ever they are.
      Even if you are placed in a doomed city ore on your way to be executed…so many examples..but what about Rahab?…Her city Jerico) was doomed to be totally destroyed…and it was exept Rahabs house who was still standing…ore what about Elisjah`s attendant who saw one early morning that they where surrounded by a great army…for him it sure looked like there was no hope…but he and Elijah was safe as you know (2 kings 6:15-17)…true faith has been tested in many wayes before..Like Daniel who was thrown to lions…Sjadrac,Mesjak and Abed-nego who was thrown in the owen ore the criminal who was executed along with Jesus and got the promise from Jesus himself of life…
      It is actually simple…just beliwe…Joh.3:16 Joh.17:3 KNOW Jehovah and BELIWE in Jesus,than you are safe even if you have to die 🙂

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