Why would the Watchtower organization invest the tremendous amount of money required to build their new facilities if they believed the end is as near as they proclaim it to be? And is this a parallel to the Jews continued pouring of money into Herod’s second Temple building project, even though it was all destroyed by Jehovah in 70CE?
History does repeat itself in various ways. Recently someone brought to my attention an interesting parallel that occurred prior to the destruction of the first temple by the Chaldeans, during the reign of Jehoiakim.
Jeremiah had already begun his stint as a prophet, announcing Jehovah’s intent to destroy the city and the temple where he had placed his name. About ten years after Jeremiah began preaching God’s judgment messages Jehoiakim became king and at some point set out on building for himself a magnificent palace.
Because the pharaoh of Egypt had already imposed a tribute on the Judean kingdom the treasury was depleted, which induced Jehoiakim to defraud the workers whom he had employed to construct his extravagant royal mansion. For this Jeremiah directed Jehovah’s denunciation to the king, saying: “Woe to the one who builds his house without righteousness and his upper rooms without justice, who makes his fellow man serve him for nothing, whose wages he refuses to pay; the one saying, ‘I will build for myself a roomy house with spacious upper rooms. I will fit it with windows and panel it with cedar and paint it with vermilion.’ Will you continue reigning because you outdo others in your use of cedar? Your father also ate and drank, but he upheld justice and righteousness, and it went well with him. He defended the legal claim of the afflicted one and the poor one, so that it went well. ‘Is that not what it means to know me?’ declares Jehovah. ‘But your eyes and heart are set only on your dishonest gain, on shedding innocent blood, and on committing fraud and extortion.’” —Jeremiah 22:13-17
The parallel with the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses at this time is quite striking.
Keep in mind that it was this same Jehoiakim who ripped up the scrolls of Jeremiah that his princes had read before the king. It was Jehoiakim that threw Jehovah’s words in the fire.
In a similar manner, in 2005 every member of the Governing Body, and many others besides, were sent copies of Jehovah Himself Has Become King. We may be sure that the books sent them suffered a similar fate as Jeremiah’s scroll. No matter. Over the years since then Brooklyn Bethel and branch heads have received numerous open letters and brochures that expound on Jehovah’s intent to enter into judgment with those who preside over his people. They simply cannot be unaware of my message.
But like Jehoiakim they have had a massive royal residence built for themselves at a time when God’s judgment is impending. And like Jehoiakim with his expensive cedar paneling, it was also brought to my attention that the outside walls of the main complex are made of solid granite slabs that were especially quarried from the side of a mountain in China and shipped half way around the world in giant containers!
The question is, why would the Watchtower sell off their perfectly suitable, high-profile properties in Brooklyn, in the most populous city in America, and retreat to the obscurity of the countryside? The answer should be obvious —because they could!
Since the financial bubble has been re-inflated bigger and bigger since the 2008 crash, pumping up high-end real estate in big cities especially, Bethel’s Brooklyn properties have soared in value. The board of directors of the Watchtower Society evidently decided that they could make a killing on the market by selling off the Brooklyn properties. And by exploiting the free labor of tens of thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses they could have for themselves a luxurious new facility at a fraction of the cost of hiring outside contractors.
Although Jehovah’s Witnesses expected no pay for their labor, it is nonetheless a form of profiteering on the part of the leadership since the project was wholly unnecessary and exploited the massive labor pool of trusting volunteers they have at their disposal.
Like wicked Jehoiakim, the rulers of Bethel refuse to take up the legal claim of the afflicted. Just the opposite, in fact. They have waged a long-running war against sexually abused children. They have bullied, intimidated and slandered anyone who dares to speak against their evil policies. They have bribed victims with hush money —binding them with legal gag orders that prevent them from speaking about the crimes Jehovah’s Witness pedophiles committed against them. These are the things Jehovah is going to set straight in the near future.
So, yes, the modern parallel is extraordinary.
As for the question why engage in this massive project if they believe the end is near? The answer, again, is obvious. Some influentials don’t believe the end is near. I doubt if some prominent men within the Watchtower hierarchy even believe in Jehovah! If they do they surely do not know him, as was the case with Jehoiakim.
Long ago Jehovah spoke of the complacent men in high places in the Jewish ruling class, of whom he said: “At that time I will carefully search Jerusalem with lamps, and I will call to account the complacent ones, who say in their heart, ‘Jehovah will not do good, and he will not do bad.’ Their wealth will be plundered and their houses will be devastated. They will build houses, but they will not occupy them; and they will plant vineyards, but they will not drink wine from them. The great day of Jehovah is near! It is near and it is approaching very quickly! The sound of the day of Jehovah is bitter. There a warrior cries out. That day is a day of fury, a day of distress and anguish, a day of storm and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick gloom, a day of the horn and of the battle cry, against the fortified cities and against the high corner towers.” – Zephaniah 1:12-16
Although some two and a half years ago I projected that the Governing Body would never complete their move out of New York, it appears that they have. How that will factor into the prophecy in Isaiah regarding the City of Tearing Down remains to be seen. However, it seems very unwise on their part to have sold valuable facilities for mere money in the bank —a banking system that could simply vaporize on any given day. It is simply out of the question that the bankrupt banking system could endure the shock of the now-impending war.
While the princes of Bethel have gotten their country estate built in record time, they can lose it all even more quickly during the great day of Jehovah – now nearer than ever.
As if to deflect any criticism for the construction of their plush new headquarters, during the first Morning Worship program at Warwick Stephen Lett read an open letter from the Governing Body, wherein they said they were already feeling healthier having escaped the noisy city for the fresh air of the country. As a result of the healthier environment they said they were going to serve the brothers even better. Although they said they don’t deserve to live in such a beautiful place they have accepted it as an undeserved gift from Jehovah. Indeed, how could anyone refuse Jehovah? (The Governing Body letter is read about the 9:30 mark)
They will only be brought to their proper senses by the terror of the now-looming global war and will self destruct at the coming of Christ when our funds dry up.
I rarely gave anything to the watchtower when I attended meetings. Though both my parents were generous in their provision, I never saw any hard cash, it was always kept for me as I ‘would only spend it’. Well yes! That’s what’s it’s for. My father still owes me 10 Shillings pocket money and if I make it through, I will be asking him for it. But my attitude to the watchtower was always that Jehovah will, as owner of all the gold and silver, provide without my help, and so I kept my groats because I needed them more than the governing body did. I still do too! Don’t we all. I paid out in time, doing the ministry, pioneering. I reckoned that was the job…..not that I managed to bring in one sheep! ….crumbs, I sound like the bad slave that kept his talent and sure gave nothing back….I’m doooomed.
Your totally worthy brother, don’t feel bad I never gave much either. Because I was one of eleven siblings from a widowed mother, so any extra money went to her first and foremost. I’m sure Jehovah understands! Although I did give thousands once to a proposed Assembly Hall that never got built. Go figure…………….
You can find some comfort Joseph knowing that at least your hard earned dosh is now glistening on the wrist of some gb member or is invested in a Chinese granite block of stone….
I would like evidence of these things. I have made a point upon starting my journey learning about Jehovah to always research and make sure I have clarity of what I learn is right – hence why I ended up here and so I know this approach serves me well. How do we know that the GB is spending so frivolously on such things?
Hi Sally, I would like to say that all the proof I need is to compare the Apostles with those who claim to be…Paul’s words of “being an expensive burden” are true in the case of the “governing body”….none of them are homeless, hungry, poor…they are adorned with nice suits,expensive watches,they have health care, food..(many average brothers and sisters do not) they are catered to and all their needs are met by servants…well, compare that to Christ and the Apostles who were homeless and treated as outcast…the governing body are treated as kings….what more proof does one need?
Donations appear to be tribute to the Kings of the watchtower….
I understand what you have written and it is in context of what is happening within the WT organisation. But…it is not “proof” that they are wearing expensive (more than average) suits, rolex watches, fly first class everywhere and have granite shipped from a mountain in China to put in the entrance hall of the new Bethel. I am not saying these things are not happening, but I have learnt so far (remember I am a bible study student) to check, double check, and check again all that I learn. That lesson became painfully obvious a few months ago when I was fortunate enough to land here when I was becoming confused and disillusioned with the organisation.
Great that you are searching and checking..It is a pity that we even have to deal with these issues, all we want is truth…Its highly unlikely the governing body will offer up receipts of any of their personal luxury items..
I seriously doubt its a cheap imitation…
If they are not paid more than the given allowances, it must be fake. If they are allowed ‘expenses’ then you have to make your own deliberation. For me, I base my reasoning on the overall approach to things I have no absolute proof of. When I was working, we called it ‘evidence indicators’ and it was a questioning of what we could see that supported the concern. It was, and is, if used correctly, evidence enough to persuade a Court of law, and I used it in cases of prosecuting child abuse, where no direct evidence was available. For instance, one can suggest beyond reasonable doubt, why a child behaves differently by gathering information from school, doctors, associates etc etc. But ask yourself, does the lifestyle and self importance of the watchtower, their blatant misuse of funds, engrandesment and attitude suggest that the watch is a fake, and even if it were, is it humility in line with the pauperism demanded of the flock in putting the kingdom first, to suggest that it IS real, by wearing an imitation of an expensive article to fool others into thinking you can afford it? Either way it shows his thinking is incorrect. Modesty in all things. Ha!
That is an awesome reasoning Burt! Intuition also plays a part in the work that both you and I have been involved in. It is credible evidence IF you can reasonably back up what your intuition is telling you. In this case my intuition tells me (unless he had some very rich relative/friend who passed it on) then it is fake. How could you have a 20 grand watch out of expenses? Is it reasonable to suggest that someone else would authorise the necessity of a 20 grand watch out of donations? The comments regarding the need to wear a watch that omits 20 grand says a lot about a person in general i think, but as you said this is way more than that. This is a GB member who preaches modesty and promotes the idea of only having just enough to get by, (food, shelter etc) and not wanting material things that are of Satan’s world. So either way its enormously hypocritical.
Why would you need to be displaying “showy” displays, fake or other wise, in fact fake would be worse as you would fall into the “wanna be” class!
Sally, don’t worry about the material issues of the watchtower. I don’t think anyone could provide concrete proof….maybe granite proof! ……though as I said above, more than enough is available on the Internet. Just stick with the bible and where truth is spoken. Jehovah will judge the watchtower. Not us. It’s not for us. Jehovah will judge us all. All was secret in the inner temple when the priests were acting wrongly and he showed Elijah ? What was going on….but no one else. The same is true today, but for the leaks into the Internet. But It’s not important for us to know. Seek first he kingdom and make it your own and all other things will be added to you. If you want proof of the attitude that that drives the watchtower, the conduct of the governing body is open to all to see, if they have eyes to see it and are not decieved. You see….this is why you felt uncomfortable. Trust your love of truth and you will not be deceived.
Exactly, well said!
Hello Sally, I think the most blatant evidence of the mall appropriation of funds destined for the preaching work and support of such is the new building its self; the documented court papers on such funds being spent on court damages for the wilful neglect of the safety of children; unnecessary use of funds for first class travel, cars, personal accoutrements; investing in old age retirement homes and so on. The proof is in documentation both on the Internet and this site but also in the Guardian newspaper and in Australia. Have I seen all this evidence? I have seen enough but I also trust this site and some aspects of media and in how this balances with what I have known during my many years in the congregation. Having said all that, I do not rely on all this. Even if none of it were true, that would not move me in the slightest. What keeps me riveted, as I think it does you, is what the bible says and how the watchtower fits into this. But even then, my focus is upon my relationship with Jehovah and my heart condition, even above my superficial knowledge of where to find scriptures. My world is Jehovah and me, and my loyalty to all that he requires. Unfortunately I am not always loyal to myself, being a sinner. Still, I have the ransom. I would not put too much store on what the watchtower is spending or doing. It’s not important, leave them be to their own course. Like the Boreans, carry on diligently searching the scriptures to prove what robert demonstrates on his site to yourself or from wherever you learn it. That is where salvation lies…Jehovah, Jesus, bible, you, everyone else.
Goodness, it sounds like you were describing the Catholic church there for a moment with the lavish expenditure on “themselves”!
I think the Catholics put the watchtower in the shade! But I would love raid their library and read some of their manuscripts.
Yes for sure, it was just a fleeting thought for a moment!
hahahaa, did we share a father, Burt? Mine disinherited me for becoming ‘one of those witnesses’ & refusing to take blood for my baby daughter (not that she needed it!) He reckoned that if I got any of his fortune the WTS would demand 10% of it & the rest would be frittered away. He will be very unhappy when he is resurrected to see that his money wasn’t buried with him!
Not unless you have Swedish roots circa 1926. He was first married to a Swedish girl he met when he was over there working for some aristocrat putting a sound system into a palace no less. You might have high connections! No one in the family knows more than that….some dark family secret from the days before Facebook, Twitter, and whatever else there is now.
If Reynolds is your true surname you are probably of Irish descent as Reynolds is Mac Grennal or Son of Ragnail . I too am a Reynolds .
Well, from what I’ve seen here, and knowing what you did for a living, I doubt Jehovah is going to say you didn’t give anything 🙂
Yes Joseph for sure, there will be no need for that picket fence that BK above is talking about. I still can’t work out why people still keep thinking that the watchtower is the place where the thing that ought not be standing will be standing, this entity will be standing right where the Kingdom is to be and nothing else and certainly not some man made creation, it a sort of arrogance really which is just another wonderful attribute of humans.
Robert, wouldn’t Warwick NY still be considered on the banks or outskirts of the city of tearing down?
Let’s hope ;~)
I know I said I would try to stay away from now on, but I’ve actually been thinking about this, ever since the sale was finalized and the official were moved into their new place…you mentioned previously that your “unique” understanding of the prophecy of the land of decoration would mean that the move would not happen….in fact you said that Jehovah would not allow it, that’s pretty close to you’re exact words if I remember correctly. You’ve also been outspoken about allowing the outplaying of events determine who is legitimately speaking for Jehovah (btw, I agree w. that assessment as well as your interpretation of the land if decoration, the only difference in my understanding being the extent of the “land”…i view I held before you made that statement about Bethel not being permitted to make the move)…but since you’ve already definitively said the move will not happen, how do you reconcile that with the way things ACTUALLY played out(no doubt you will hand-wave my concerns and say that you’re not really a prophet like the WT does, or just delete my post, but I just thought id ask to see what your response will be)
I think I’m about to ruin another joke….I don’t get it. Who are the dogs?
Tara has been let loose on Robert
You mean BRIAN!. Now with all due respect and no harm intended — Tara is not a woman and his real name is Brian.
This is Me
The Story of Brian and Tara.
2 Corinthians 6:
14 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness?
Just weird, I realize all on this site are given the freedom to speak freely, even to ask dumb questions at times. But wow, what is this about!!!!! hmmmmmmm!
Decided best to delete my comment!!
It’s always good to keep in mind that we are on the Internet and we really don’t know for sure who people really are or what their true motives could be.
1 Peter 5
8 Keep your senses, be watchful! Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone.
Absolutely, thank you Kevin.
I changed my screen name back and removed my pic because I have had some strange issues with my email and accounts….Its best to send Brother King our personal information and details so he is aware of who we are…I did
Yes I remember that! I am amazed that someone can so blatantly disregard the bibles statements yet still feel anointed of Jehovah. In an odd sort of way, I am jealous of such self reliance, and in another way, so glad I’m not!
But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are
(disgusting” in their filth)
and murderers and the
and those practicing
(spiritism and idolaters)
and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.”
Hello Tara, I think Robert just did say he got it wrong in the article above. Perhaps it should never have been conjectured in the first place, but it was. That being the case, we can see that from Moses, who was guilty of claiming the miraculous provision of water to himself, right the way down to the governing body, people have made projection, action or comment that has been proved untrue or incorrect. What it boils down to is that we expect people in an exalted position to be perfect, but again, from the beginning of history, right down to the modern day examples of government, the opposite has been proved true.
Had Robert started a site to show that the watchtower’s new building would never be occupied, then all of us may have a point. But he didn’t. The message is simply what the bible says, and though many of us using this site would never have known such without the help offered, when it is told to us, most if not all would agree that it is true, correct. And that is brought more sharply into focus because most, if not all of us, know of and can compare it to, what the watchtower has told us. It is in fact, the missing pieces to the jigsaw because it illustrates what the deception is and that there can be no other explanation.
So was the remark born of exuberance, faith, or deception? Malice a forethought or an inspiring outcome of hope? What possible motive could there have been to warrant such a statement? Your question, at the second time of asking, illustrates frustration at not having an answer but what it is asking is for the mistake to be acknowledged. Well it has been in the article above. So what now? You suggest Robert may wave away the query as do the governing body, possibly as ‘old light’, but that implies a whole greater charge of careless spouting of any old tripe just to get a following. And that is simply just not so. Just as the manner of the watchtower governing body is their concern, so too is our manner and our mistakes of honest thinking freely given, but eventually proven wrong. An old saying that I have held to all my life is that there is no limit to the harm that can be done, when you think you are doing good….said of Catholics in fact! And that is true of those that do not examine what it is that they do, as with the watchtower. And that charge can honestly be laid at the feet of the watchtower. Yet that cannot be said of what is written here. Countless hours of honest toil, for no reward, the striving for truth and the endless witnessing. That is the motive….what else could it be? If offering insight is to be labelled as false prophesy and levelled with the actions of the watchtower, then that is quite a statement, and an uneven one, and it is far easier to apportion badness to an act that it is to apply goodness. For my part, I just accept it as unbridled enthusiasm and which is both wonderful and excusable, given the marvellous profit I have made from this site, but more importantly, the theme of this site….to save. You have the answer to your question above in the article. By all means ask for the pound of flesh, but if you draw blood along with it, Jehovah will likewise be asking it back from yourself. There, I have interfered with a question that was not mine to reply to, but nonetheless, that is my perspective, not on behalf of Robert, but from all of those that may make mistakes in our effort to understand the bible and its prophesy and of which I am guilty as well as countless others.
My point wasn’t that he got it wrong, it was that he himself has claimed that the unfolding of events would prove who is right and who is wrong…the implication being that who is wrong is not from Jehovah, and I was just trying to find out if he would backtrack on that as well. This wouldn’t be an issue if he were to recognize the gifts others are receiving from Jehovah as now is the time for us to be uniting in an attempt to prepare a place in the wilderness…i have received information that RK hasn’t, and that’s unacceptable to him, so he allows his ego to get in the way of moving forward along with Jehovah’s plan…just ad RK questioned 1914 and correctly predicted the interpretation of the feet of iron and clay before the WT, so it is playing out with the information I’ve posted (so far) in relation to RK’s published material…and as I mentioned before, I agree with RK when he says time and the unfolding of events will prove who is right, and that has just started.
Maybe this is all a big test to show us all we are basically “flat” or “sharp” in our honking notes….I sure have been, but we all keep trying nonetheless. And at the very least, Robert (unlike the governing body) provides this forum where ANYBODY can sing along, in tune or not…. Roberts not controlling anybody. I feel like I need to end this comment with a hug. Shalom!
Andreiega, indeed, we do need peace, and I don’t begrudge the people who attack me on this website, it is to be expected…history continues to show that people are followers of men, even if that is not their intention, God on the other hand does not cover over the failings of his followers…as evidenced in his word…he didn’t cover over the sins of David or Moses, in fact, Moses was put to death by God for his sons, and it was recorded in the inspired record…i don’t care that RK was wrong…thats simply a result of human imperfection, which will ultimately he forgiven…what won’t be forgiven though is transgressing the Holy Spirit…if God is actively working in your life, and you willfully reject that, Jesus himself said that will not be forgiven, in this life ir the next…has RK done that by his rejection of the material I have presented to him? Probably not…has RK done that by letting his ego take over his ministry? That’s a lot more likely…especially considering that’s the exact same reason that the man of lawlessness has doomed himself (as an organization), but it is not my place to decide if that is so in RK’s case as an individual…time will tell.
My brothers and sisters, I cannot address you as people who walk by the Spirit; I have to speak to you as people who tend to think in merely human terms, as spiritual infants in the Anointed One. I nursed you with milk, as a mother would feed her baby, because you were not, and still are not, developed enough to digest complex spiritual food. And here’s why: you are still living in the flesh, not in the Spirit. How do I know? Are you fighting with one another? Are you comparing yourselves to others and becoming consumed with jealousy? Then it sounds like you are living in the flesh, no different from the rest who live by the standards of this rebellious and broken world. If one of you is saying, “I am with Paul,” and the other says, “I am with Apollos,” aren’t you like everybody else? So who is Apollos really? Or Paul for that matter? We are only servants, agents who led you to faith, and the Lord commissioned each of us to do a particular job.Paul’s test for spiritually immaturity: Do you argue? Do you compare yourself to others? Are you jealous? Answer “yes” to any of these, then you are spiritually immature.6 My job was to plant the seed, and Apollos was called to water it. Any growth comes from God, so the ones who water and plant have nothing to brag about. God, who causes the growth, is the only One who matters. The one who plants is no greater than the one who waters; both will be rewarded based on their work. We are gardeners and field workers laboring with God. You are the vineyard, the garden, the house where God dwells. Like a skilled architect and master builder, I laid a foundation based upon God’s grace given to me. Now others will come along to build on the foundation. Each serves in a different way and is to build upon it with great care. There is, in fact, only one foundation, and no one can lay any foundation other than Jesus the Anointed. As others build on the foundation (whether with gold, silver, gemstones, wood, hay, or straw), the quality of each person’s work will be revealed in time as it is tested by fire. If a man’s work stands the test of fire, he will be rewarded. If a man’s work is consumed by the fire, his reward will be lost but he will be spared, rescued from the fire. Don’t you understand that together you form a temple to the living God and His Spirit lives among you? If someone comes along to corrupt, vandalize, and destroy the temple of God, you can be sure that God will see to it that he meets destruction because the temple of God is sacred. You, together, are His temple. Don’t let anyone deceive himself. If any one of you thinks he is wise in matters pertaining to this world, he is going to be really disappointed. In fact, one must be deemed a fool by worldly standards in order to become truly wise because the wisdom of this rebellious and broken world looks like foolishness when put next to God. So it stands in Scripture, “He catches the wise in their deceitful plotting.” And the Scriptures add, “The Lord knows the highest thoughts of the wise, and they are worthless.” So there is no reason for anyone to boast in human leaders. You already have it all. So whether it is Paul, Apollos, Cephas, the world, life or death, the present or the future—it all belongs to you. You belong to the Anointed One, and the Anointed One belongs to God. – 1 Corinthians 3:1-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians3:1-23&version=ERV
Thanks for posting that Searcher. I have never read the ERV. Really gets the point across.
And thanks for your expressions in the Guest Book. I am so out of touch with what is going on in the congregations on the ground level it helps me keep my finger on the pulse to hear other’s personal experiences and observations.
That’s really good. Thanks for quoting that.
Hello Searcher, I read your guest book article and can relate to your sense of being robbed of information by the watchtower by the way they deny people the meat of the word and feed only milk, as your scripture quoted above also indicates. That you expect to be expelled from the congregation for your refusal to keep silent about the truth is a sad but increasingly common issue. You ask for advice and yet you give it yourself! Stand up for the truth…keep on what you are doing. There is though, it seems, a fine line between loyalty to what is Jehovah’s arrangement for us on earth, …ergo…to stay within the temple, as was described here not long ago by comparing it to the Israelites being sent off to Babylon, the heart of darkness so to speak, but where they would be safe. And yet in this time, the other side of the coin is, if that means staying silent on the word, which is surely the basis for life itself, then the choice is clear.
But there is a conditioning, long present in the watchtower, that if you are disfellowshipped, then you are cut off from Jehovah. This is a lie. The watchtower may be able to throw you out of their organisation, but on whose authority? Surely not Jehovah’s! How can one be thrown of of Jehovah’s organisation except by their own hand, as with judas, or by Jehovah. Even if the watchtower did disfellowship you, you can still go to the meetings as a testimony to the truth, but few if any will see your act as such, or dare to openly, but nonetheless it has its value as has been pointed out many a time on this site. One might ask one’s self, what part of the organisation he is being thrown out of. The building? Yes. (But you can come in and sit by the back door). The teachings of the watchtower? Yes. (But you can go and listen on the off chance that you will again be decieved into serving the machinations of the corporation). The word of Jehovah? No. You may find the repitition of the milk being burped up by the elders by being patted on their backs by the organisation, just as you have noted, but the truth in its elemental form is found at the hall, is it not? And it is not from the watchtower, but from the bible….almost as a by product of the great deception as all deceptions have an element of truth, do they not? And that is satans undoing as the searcher will look further and possibly find all of it where it is hidden.
My desire to serve Jehovah has never been stronger and my faith, never stronger than it is now, and I can freely witness to any whom I choose or who may ask, but witnessing is not just a matter of words, it is also a matter of fearlessness and need not be discounted. So sitting there in the Kingdom Hall as an object of derision to be shunned, is fine testimony in itself that something is seriously wrong in the teachings, and was the lot of one of the prophets, though I cannot recall who….’I am made to be a fool…’ I remember speaking to a disfellowshipped brother at the hall once out of sympathy and encouragement, but he would not speak with me, such was the power held over him by the watchtower and which dragged him through fear, back to the lie. You on the other hand have the truth. What greater reason is there to sit and be vilified. But though I have not been disfellowshipped and so am in much the same situation, I am the hypocrite as I have not gone back yet and I do not know what the future is for me either. I do think though that come the end, when the watchtower collapses, I may be found outside the hall offering help, because by that time my family may be listening to me rather than ridiculing me in exasperation because of my aliegence to the word and the fate of the watchtower. To be honest, I want to save my family more than I want to distance myself from my family at this point by going back…..ergo to lose them on the off chance to save another before they have yet made their descision. It’s difficult. Until then, my heart dwells in the spiritual temple and not in the facsimile that is the Kingdom Hall.
“Until then, my heart dwells in the spiritual temple and not in the facsimile that is the Kingdom Hall.” Very well put Burt, same here 🙂
Hi bro Burt, thats not me in the guest book, another searcher, my guest book story is to come
I like that, ….’honking notes’. Cute.
Well, you could have fooled me Tara. You are using the scriptures to justify your course of action in life, as noted last time you wrote, saying that you just wanted to be there for fellow gays, as the intro to your site explains. Then you add that people should not use the bible to reply to you because it is against Jehovah’s purpose. Well, all countries on earth use rule of law to define a standard, as does the bible. As for you, you strain at the gnat, pointing out another’s fault, while justifying your own and trying to make deals with Jehovah. If you would simply in your thinking take on board the genetic disability you speak of, (giving you the issues that it may not be choice), and deal with that in Jehovah’s way, then you really would have Jehovah’s blessing and understand what his mercy is. At present, you are trying to bargain with Jehovah, and everyone but you knows you will not win. Look for Jehovah while he still may be found.
If you’ve read anywhere in any of my comments anything that could slightly be construed as me suggesting that someone could not reply to me, then either you misunderstood what I was trying to say, r it was a typo (I do a lot of comment section posts with the swipe feature on my phone, and try to proof read, but often miss things).
One thing I’m adamant about is letting people speak their minds and hearts…as is Jehovah (for a purpose…to vindicate his sovereignty). When people like Joseph do things that are hateful like call me a dog, that doesn’t really bother me, it only serves to show what kind of person he is.
As I mentioned, I don’t care that RK rejected me, but my whole issue is his ego…and I am adamant against it for two reasons…1. Ego is the one thing that’s behind all sin…its what motivated Satan in the garden of Eden…its what caused Eve to reach for the fruit from the tree of knowledge, it’s what motivated Cain to kill his brother, and David to take another mans wife and then kill him…its what motivated Moses to take credit for God’s work…and that was qn important one…Moses was anointed by Jehovah to lead his people, he should have known better, so what did Jehovah do? He continued to use him to lead his people…to fulfill his own purpose, but did not allow him to enter the Promised land…that should be a reminder for RK, who is (or at least was) anointed (a claim I do not dispute, whether or not he still is remains to be seen). And yet, he looks down on me for giving credit to the work I’ve done to Jehovah…he even said he recommends not doing that because it turns people off when you claim to speak for Jehovah…what he doesn’t realize is that I’m not doing this for numbers, I’m doing it to reach right-hearted ones, and I freely give credit where credit is due….there is nothing good in my life that isn’t a gift from Jehovah…my work on this website is simply an attempt to prevent RK from becoming an antitype if Moses in terms of allowing his ego to prevent him from reaching the promised land…as so many before him have done.
No way ever ,was it implying that your a dog, in fact my heart goes out to you and your struggle.
I was simply stating and observing that now that the Watchtower Society has moved , people who have not commented in a while are Unleashed to attack Robert. Thus comes the term “Who Let The Dogs Out”. Nobody thinks your a dog at all. My apologies
Joseph, thank you for that, much appreciated…and it’s not my intention to attack Robert. Robert was gracious enough to let me speak me piece the last time I posted here…and those comments reached some hearts, and others turned away…there is no longer a need for me to continue harping on that, which is why I had intended to no longer comment on his site (although I do lurk a little bit)…the question I raised in my fist comment on this article again, wasn’t an attack, but rather it was a targeted question to try and get RK to think about some of the things hes said and done in the past…the purpose of which, as I mentioned in the last post, was to help him avoid the same fate as Moses (of course, Moses will be resurrected, the anointed in our day who lose Jehovahs favor will not). And I don’t accuse him of his ego based on nothing…rather, the words he’s spoken to me and my grandmother (both public and private) stand on their own…i don’t be begrudge RK (or anyone else) for not believing what I’ve written this far…in fact, I’m glad that people are critical of my work…it keeps me sharp and proves their own caution in not just blindly accepting anything anyone has to say…in the end, any correction in thinking that needs to be made, if a person is humble and receptive to correction, Jehovah will make sure it gets done…and it’s not going to be like before…going forward, with the law of love written in their hearts, people will open up to Jehovah and these things will be done on an individual basis, as the need arises for each person individually…like customized counsel….which is why I don’t worry about whether people accept me or nit, I’m simply a messenger…its Jehovahs job to make those seeds grow…and if that requires a different perspective…if someone else’s gifts make them better suited to water where I have planted…theres no need for me to be jealous of that…the goal is to reach people, and whether that is better served by me or someone else, I trust that Jehovah will always pick the right person for the job. RK, on the other hand, seems to feel he has a monopoly on the truth…but I’ve harped in that enough, I’ve said what I believe I came here to say, made my point, and there’s not really any further need to beat a dead horse.
As for your other commentary about my justification, it’s really just reasoning…and even if it’s I incorrect (which Jehovah has given me plenty of reason to believe it’s not)…but assuming it is, it’s ALWAYS better to err on the side of love…that is the heart of ALL if Jehovahs laws…remember, the stringent requirements laid out in the Mosaic law were there for a lawless people…When Jesus came on the scene and declared love to be the basis if the Law, the new requirements were less strict ceremonially speaking, but were in even more strict in other ways…the Christian era was designed for the purpose of getting people to think about really inculcating the values of love on ones own heart…and it was about personal responsibility to your own thoughts and actions…but people still follow the commands of men and they turn God’s law into a laundry list of dos and don’ts rather than looking at the motivation (good or bad) behind what a person is doing…that is why there are still things explicitly stated in the Christian era like the laws on self control when it comes to sex…and sure enough, just like in the Mosaic law…people have twisted the christian-era commandments to fit their own purposes of power…to rule over other peoples faith…but those laws are dying away in favor of a new law that is written on ones heart and not on a tablet…no one will be put to death for doing anything that is motivated by love…and this moment in human history is in preparation of that…and if mistakes are made along the way or something needs to change, Jehovah will see to that…we shouldn’t be worrying over each others faults if the right motivation is behind them (love) leave that up to Jehovah…and as I’ve stated before, my whole purpose here isnt to put RK down….but the attitude that has gone into the second half of his ministry does indicate a more selfish motivation…and that’s just not acceptable to Jehovah, there’s a difference between pointing out faulty reasoning, and bashing someone over the head for their faith without giving a reasonable explanation as to why they are wrong…ive presented sound reasoning in my articles for my stance on various topics…im not trying to bargain with anyone…im doing what so many in the past have failed to do, and that is to take a critical look at the heart of the Bible’s message…outside the scope of any human leader whose sole purpose is to lord over another’s faith…that combined with heartfelt prayer and deep meditation on God’s qualities has lead me to the conclusions ive outlined. It’s something that is almost impossible to do if you insist on being under someone else shadow, because men…for the most part…have their own interests at heart…rather you are wise to look at the scriptures under God’s shadow and their correct interpretation will become apparent if you analyze them with God’s primary quality on mind…love
There are three types of, or named, essences of love in the bible. That between husband and wife, that between family, (including spiritual brothers and sisters), that for God. None of them refer to homosexuality or include it. i brought up your issue of sexuality as it permeates through and is prominent in your justifications, even if not referred to directly, and is on permenant mention on your page. In fact, more space is given to that justification and excusing thereof than is given to any suggestion of Devine purpose. You delude yourself if you feel Jehovah is going to change, and still further that he will change you into a woman prior to the end as you stated before, so that you can preach to the congregation. Yet, No one decries you for whom you are, and there is no need to imply that people do, but if you are going to bring your discussion to this table, then I will answer it as I would anyone who tries to tie the bible in knots. The watchtower is correct in its advice that you can harbour issues contrary to Jehovah’s commandments if it is beyond your ability to do otherwise because of a physical issue perpetrated on you by fate….but don’t practice or advocate or justify it.
Actually 4, the 4th is philis, love of neighbor. The love between “husband and wife” Eros, is romantic love, and does not specify genders…the Greek scriptures are actually silent on same-sex marriage (the Mosaic law is a little different, but there was a reason for that as outlined in my work). Paul did however mention same-sex prostitution and fornication…but the fact is nowhere does it address same sex marriage-there’s no way the Bible writers COULD have commented on it, the concept did not exist in the 1st century…therefore I don’t really think Jehovah will hold it against someone to err on the side of compassion…doing do falls in line with philis…love of neighbor.
Brien you are twisting the scriptures around in in order to justify homosexuality although the scriptures clearly say / prohibite a man from lying down with a man as he would a woman, you however in spite of knowing what the scriptures clearly say have become an apostate teaching contrary to what the bible really said in respect to homosexuality.
If Jehovah does not approve of a man who lies down with another man as he would with a woman how much more would Jehovah disapproved of same sex marriage?? – I mean it is just basic common sense but you Brian because of your dark desires and your lack of true love for the truth chose not only to practice lawlessness but to promote it as well.
Brien Your faith is truly disgusting.
I can say that your faith is truly disgusting because it is the truth and you know better seeing that you are well versed in the scriptures.
1 Corinthians 6:9
What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom?
Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
nor men kept for unnatural purposes,
(nor men who lie with men,)
Leviticus 20: 13
If a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing.They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them.
26 That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature
27 likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty
I’ve already addressed this scriptures on my site and will not rehash that here…if you wish to address the points I raise on those scriptures, I am open for that discussion, otherwise we are just going in circles.
So you mean to say same sex marriage is okay? If the so called the Greek scriptures are actually silent on same-sex marriage? See in an male homo sexual persons the external genital is actually the male but the brain structure developed in female., so there is a mismatch between actual anatomy of sex organs and physiology of the brain so they have the tendency to marry a male. I know the problems of homosexuals and lesbians what they are actually facing. So my argument is that if they marry how will they lead a family life like that of man and woman. If they want to do that it would be disgusting to perform. So such persons though it is not their mistake by being born as homosexuals they can sacrifice their sexual desires and orientation for the sake of Kingdom, so that they will be released out of this bondage in paradise and Jesus will cure every sort of ailments and turn such persons into completely male or lesbians into females. Until then let us not think our own way to full fill our own desire, but think as that of Christ and of Jehovah. Yes Brother Basavaraj will not accept same sex marriage but respects all homosexuals and lesbians as human beings becasue it is not their sin or some mistakes to be as homosexuals or lesbians. So Tara why not change your view? Sacrifice the things for the sake of Jehovah and for Christ and for his kingdom
Basavaraj, I’m not saying we should be advocating homosexuality, despite what others would have you believe, that is not my agenda… It it’s clear from anatomy, as you point out, that Jehovah originally intended for men to be with women. But there are circumstances in our time that allow us to suspend judgment. I’ll give you two examples…if someone comes to Jehovah after entering a same sex marriage, which law takes precedent, the law against divorce, or the law against same sex fornication…btw, Paul was referring to fornication and prostitution when speaking of homosexuality, not same sex marriage. The other example is my situation…i was born with male body parts, but I was meant to be female…and yes, Jehovah has confirmed that…hes confirmed it to me both directly, and through one of his anointed servants. When I am restored to perfection, it will be with a female body. It is possible that someone entering a same sex relationship could be the same way and not realize it… We can’t judge that for other people. The Bible needed to take a strong stance on same sex fornication during the first century because of it’s prevelance…but now that same sex marriage is an option, we can’t impose those words of Paul’s to people in same sex relationships…will these things become more clear in the future, almost certainly, but for right now, I’m not advocating homosexuality, but I am suspending my judgement on people for choosing to enter same sex relationships out of compassion, because there is scriptural justification to do so…what if Jehovah is trying to draw someone towards him because he recognizes that person has a heart that will ultimately be receptive to learning obedience and we chase that person away from Jehovah because we judged that person not on what the Bible says, but on our own interpretation of the bible? Is that persons blood not then on our hands? It is for this reason that I advocate for compassion when we can find scriptural justification to do so…and let Jehovah sort it out with that person if something needs to change.
To Respected Tara,
I do understand your thinking but where is the sacrifice? If the homosexuals enter the same sex marriage in what way they are sacrificing for the sake of Jehovah and Jesus Christ? Satan wants to think us in many ways even to the point of twisting the scriptures just as he did when he tempted to Jesus Mat:4:6 “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you,’ and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’” Is not Satan cunningly using (twisting) the scriptures to Jesus himself. So the same is true if you think that entering same sex relationships out of compassion, and if you say there is scriptural justification to do so. Well do not think in that way. I kindly request you please that you think of homosexual problems but although we are normal males or females still we do have other problems are we not enduring it for the sake of Jehovah and Christ and his kingdom? Similarly homosexuality is one kind of problems yes feelings and those feelings are not satisfied just as normal males and females may be there I do agree that is why I do respect homosexuals as human beings otherwise I would not be a worshiper of Jehovah. But please remove the thinking of same sex marriage. Jehovah through Jesus will give all homosexuals and lesbian with definite sexual identity in paradise those you truly endure and in1000 rule those who are dead and resurrected back to life.
Basavaraj, asking in what way a person suffers for their faith is Satan’s way of thinking, not God’s…God is not the one who demands that people suffer for him, Satan is. God simply allows Satan the opportunity to try and prove his point because in the end, it always serves to vindicate Jehovah. Everyone suffers for their faith…Satan makes sure of that, we do not need to be supporting him in that endeavor, rather we should be relieving each others burdens to the extent possible…. And that includes looking for opportunities to show compassion and mercy
To Respected Tara
Your comment says you don’t want to change. If you don’t want to give up this small things for the sake of kingdom then how will you give up big things (you own life if necessary) for the sake of Kingdom. It was not necessary for Jesus to die to attain salvation. But he died for our sin, so he gave up his own life for our sake that is true compassionate, so will you not give up the small things for your own sake and salvation which is acceptable to Jehovah? I understood what you said showing scriptural reasons, but that is twisting even Satan twisted the scriptures for his own benefit and to derail Gods plan If showing compassionate and mercy is so important do you mean to say that Jehovah and Jesus should show mercy to Satan? Getting away from your twisted thinking will show you really love Jehovah and Jesus from your heart otherwise whatever you show faith now is only the word from your lips that goes in the air. One small thing if you support the same sex marriage then just tell me how you are going to mate with your mate? (please don’t post in this site if you want to explain me) If that is the case is it not disgusting? Does God meant humans to perform sex in that way?
As I’ve explained in other places…I offered a very important sacrifice…a sacrifice Jesus himself was not able to offer, and like Abraham who offered his own son, God eventually intervened and said its not necessary. During the five years I studied with the Witnesses, I made the decision to restrict myself from transitioning to female…but there was so much more to it than that. In the past, Satan made two challanges…the first was that man would not remain loyal to God if they were allowed to suffer enough. Job successfully answered this question, but God did not allow Satan test him all the way to death. Instead, that being the second challenge, was answered by Jesus. Satan has very recently made a third challange…Jesus knew he was going to be resurrected, since he knew that he was would ultimately be blessed for his sacrifice, Satan has since charged that Jesus’ sacrifice wasn’t entirely selfless. Satan’s ultimate challenge was that man would nit remain loyal to Jehovah simply because it’s the right thing to do, even if they have no hope of a resurrection. How could such a challenge even be answered? My own unique circumstance has allowed me to be the one to provide that answer, and though though it caused almost unimaginable suffering on my part, I am glad, even privileged, to have been the one to offer God what I have through my faith…see during those 5 years, not only did I refrain from transitioning…even going so far as dressing up in a suit and tie, but I was also suffering from extreme depression (I still struggle with that). That combined with the things I’ve said and done in my life prior to studying with the witnesses lead me to believe that I was so vile that no amount of repentance on my part could redeem me, and that there was no way I would be allowed to enter paradise. I endured that for five years, but continued to study and be loyal to Jehovah…why? Because ultimately I felt it was the right thing to fo, and even though I felt I wouldn’t make it, I still recognized that Jehovah’s ways are higher than ours because of the way he deals with his children. Eventually, when it was time to move forward, Jehovah called me to begin studying RK’s work and to build on it, and as I said, Jehovah had confirmed to me, through one of his own anointed servants that he accepts me as his daughter…although I still have many struggles in my life, the blessings Jehovah has shown me because of the sacrifices I made, even now, are more than I ever dared to imagine….Jehovah has shown me so much love since my time with the witnesses, and my only desire is to extend that love to others…i was given the briefest glimpse into the sheer depth of Jehovah’s live for his children…it was a moment where I was feeling particularly depressed….more depressed than I ever have before actually, including my time with the witnesses, and it was a brief moment of emotion…Jehovah made me feel his love for us, and I can tell you from experience, it runs deeper than what is even comprehensible from a human standpoint…while it is not possible for humans to feel the ACTUAL depth of God’s love, even what portion of it I did feel was just beyond comprehension…and that is what humanity has to look forward to, and I’m blessed to be a part of the outworking of Jehovah’s will.
Tara, many many witnesses go through depression, some even kill themselves, committing self murder because they feel unable to meet their responsibilities to Jehovah. Unworthy. They may feel they die without hope of a resurrection for murdering themselves. So you are not unique. Many have gone before you, many will come after you. Still others, children even, who do not even feel the implications of their sacrifice, die for what they have been told is the truth. Others on this site say you are confused and others challenge you with compassion without judgement. Yet none of it will you consider and weigh in the balance. Basavaraj is the only brother here brave enough to deal with the matter graphically, though all of us believe as he does though too delicate to say it.
You say Jehovah has spoken with you and that you have gone though unimaginable suffering for his name’s sake, well, yes, each of us has their own limit, yet Jehovah tells us we will not be tested beyond this. Children the world over suffer greatly through disease, starvation, sexual abuse….you name it, they suffer it, but most do so without the benefit of understanding why. Jehovah has not spoken to these ones, or any. His time is not yet, though you claim he has chosen you to turn into a woman to preach. With your depth of understanding, do you not see how others will view this? Do you think all it takes to convince people of Jehovah’s righteousness is for a man to turn up as a woman in the Kingdom Hall and tell them that he/she comes from Jehovah? The Boreans would laugh in your face. And when they go to look at the touchstone of righteousness left to us, the bible, just where in that book might they find your salvation, the verses that show that you are the messenger of God?
I have seen people be straightforward with you, I have seen compassion extended and people try to understand. You have been extended even the biological issues that could be applied, but your intransigence to Jehovah’s word is what condemns you. No one here certainly needs to, but nowhere do you show the humility of reconsideration in the light of what you, know, to, be, the, truth, and prefer instead to cling to your own justification of your own desires. If it were a biological issue, you would welcome Basavaraj’s counsel, but as it is a physical need and desire, you find every justification to refute what you know the truth to be, even to the point of involving Jehovah in your arguement, and the only people I have ever heard do that, is the governing body, who invoke Jehovah’s agreement on all that they do, even down to the abuse of children. Why don’t you let Basavaraj help you? I believe he can and everyone here hopes you will have the humility to allow yourself at least to inquire of Jehovah, his true pathway for you, and to release you from the barriers you have put up to shield yourself both from your emotional needs and thus the truth. Let someone help you Tara. If you want you can speak with me on Facebook messenger if you wish and we can try to work though this. (Groke Goddard )
The suffering I’ve gone through does not invalidate what others have and will endure…if anything, it legitimizes the sacrifices of others…the same was true with Job, Jon’s not the only one whose gone through losing health and family for his faith, and his suffering does not belittle the sacrifices others have made…in fact, just the opposite…Job was simply the battleground set his sights on, and the outcome only serves to validate the sacrifices of others…so it is with me. As for inquiring of Jehovah, I have done, and continue to do that. I’m not here to convince people of anything, that’s really impossible for me, that’s up to Jehovah…i can only offer my experiences…of course my transition, as stark as it will be, will not be enough to convince people, no doubt many witnesses’ will say it is a demonic thing that will have taken place, but whether they accept it or not, it will serve as a witness to them, and others who doubt…the purpose is not to prove anything, but rather it will be to open the hearts of those who are willing to accept it and yearn for a level of compassion that has up to this point been supressed for the sake of ego and power trips on the part of those whom Jehovah has placed in positions of authority…a level of compassion which up to now has only been demonstrated by one person…Jesus
And that’s not to say the sacrifices’ of others aren’t inherently legitimate, rather, a better wording would’ve been that it legitimizes them in the eyes of men and spirit creatures.
How does changing into a woman act as a witness to the tribulation and Jehovah’s kingdom? Would you tell me please how Jehovah revealed this to you, how you are convinced of Devine intervention and communication as spoken of in your introduction to your site? I genuinely want to know. You are absolutely convinced and solid in your faith about this, so I really want to know how Jehovah has revealed it to you so that I can understand why you are blessed this way. Thank you.
If you’re interested in learning, and have specific questions, email me (my email is on my website) and we can discuss this in private, or leave a comment on my website and we can discuss it there…there’s no reason to continue on this site.
No thanks Tara. If you speak truth it should be public amongst the congregation. When your time comes to be a woman, the congregation you go to is going to ask the same questions and you can’t just say email me. I’m just asking for understanding. You don’t want to yield the point so tell me the truth of it so that we all know and can share in your understanding. You clearly are going to do so in due time, and you have the opportunity to do so now. Why hold back?
Because I’m here to present a point, I don’t have anything to prove…proof will come in it’s own due time to those who have the right heart. Proof is Jehovah’s realm, not mine, I’m just a messenger…i can tell you why I have come to see things the way they are, but that is personal anecdotes that I am willing to share on a one on one basis, but do not present them publicly because they would be meaningless to anyone who refuses to listen with a receptive ear.
Here, Burt, this may help you have a little insight into “Tara” – http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/
Thanks for that Robert. I was trying not to go down the mental health road because of the watchtower accusing people of being mentally diseased if they did not tow the watchtower line, but I think you are right. At least if that is the case there is room for jehovahs mercy but Tara is certainly does not appear to be very open to further self examination. It reminds me of my first girlfriend when I was 16. She had written in the fly leaf of her bible, ‘I was saved….followed by the date’ I remember thinking even then that it was somewhat presumptuous . My son has a severe mental illness….he is currently into the Muslim faith at present, but hopefully he will come round to the bible again. Sincere but lost! I hope your new site work is going to plane. ( no using blue beam to make your point now!!! )
I took the quiz on that site out of curiosity…i scored a 6, they said avg was between 12 and 15 and narcissists are over 20. My two strongest narcissistic traits were authority and self-sufficiency, both at 2.
Nowadays I am keenly reading your comments word by word. You say I offered a very important sacrifice…a sacrifice Jesus himself was not able to offer. This is unacceptable, so is your sacrifice greater than that of Jesus’? Your sacrifice is for your own salvation and for your benefit, but Jesus’ sacrifice is for others who are sinners and undeserved. Do you mean to say Jesus died in order to attain salvation for himself? As everybody knows Jesus was sinless so he need not have to sacrifice for anything. So dying for others is great sacrifice, so is your sacrifice similar to that? So how can you say I offered a very important sacrifice…a sacrifice Jesus himself was not able to offer. See in my nation there were true freedom fighters named Bagath Singh off North India and Sangoli Rayanna, of North Karnataka, they scarified their life (hanged and shot dead) in order to get freedom from British which is for the sake of general public. If they would have thought they could have led an hi fi life during the British rule itself and the British offered them still they refused. So is your sacrifice something like that? Even though they sacrificed their life to death that did not get our people real release from the empire till today even though India got independence in 1947(but truly 1950). But Jesus’ sacrifice gives hope at present and gives release from the bondage of sin, sickness (you may even include being born as homosexuals and lesbians) and death in the future. Is you sacrifice has something like that, then how can you say I offered a very important sacrifice…a sacrifice Jesus himself was not able to offer? See you said that ego is over riding Robert , but you are over riding Jesus’ sacrifice itself, that truly shows your attitude. An attitude not willing to change for the sake of Kingdom, Jehovah and Jesus is not acceptable but still it’s your wish because it is your life, I respect that. But any man’s sacrifice whatsoever and whatsoever it be, it will never be equaled to Jesus’s sacrifice. Hence you cannot tell I offered a very important sacrifice…a sacrifice Jesus himself was not able to offer. If you think so that is Satanic. I better suggest rather than taking a bible study with one of Jehovah’s witnesses, better take a bible study with Robert king ,Bklyn Kevin or Beverly kenyon because I want to better change your thinking and get saved so that I will see you in the paradise. Still I show my respect and love to you and every humans including homosexuals and lesbians if they fall in line with Jehovah and Christ’s standards because I follow (Modhalu maanavaanaagu = Fist be an human = To be like Christ in a nut shell in our Kannada language)
Once again Brother Basavaraj, sorry to jump in again in your reasoning with Tara, I have to say that I too didn’t really understand what she means about her sacrifice being something Jesus was not able to offer??!! I have lots of sympathy and empathy for Tara as it can’t be easy for her in her trials, I also have respect for her intelligence but that’s not right saying such a thing! Isn’t that verging on being blasphemous? So Tara, until you explain what you really mean by saying such a thing please don’t bring our King Jesus Christ into your debate and argument…you’re on shaky ground there! And don’t worry about that narcissistic thing, most of us have a bit of that in us…don’t we all love ourselves to an extent…its human nature so long as it’s not Ott then it becomes a problem!
Hiya Brother Basavaraj, hate to jump in on your convo with Tara but I felt compelled to say it’s beautiful to read your counsel to her especially about having to sacrifice and how Satan uses scripture to twist and use for his own agenda…I myself will remember that brilliant point! Also love how your counsel to Tara is delivered in a loving, human and compassionate way without judgement. It makes me feel so humble. No one can doubt that Tara loves Jehovah and his Son and personally, I feel that it must be very difficult for Tara but one way or another most of us who love Jehovah have to make sacrifices. Isn’t that proving our faith and our love for him…backing it up with action? Once again Brother Basavaraj, I loved reading your loving post to Tara…a lot to think about!
Tara, if your whole issue is Roberts ego, and your mission on your website is an attempt to prevent him from becoming an anti typical Moses, then you are on a hiding to nothing. Egotism is a state of mind called pride. Moses’ act was one of claiming that he had provided the water and his mistake was exasperation with Jehovah’s people not pride or ego. You want water? Here’s your damn water. Over in a flash but at what price. I think also you will find that Jehovah does not ‘use’ people, but allows their course of action to condemn or prove themselves. If he used people, he would take away their free will, and that is part of the challenge by Satan so it would not happen. Allowing situations to develop is not usage and neither is manipulation. Speaking of manipulation, this is precisely what you are doing in your advocacy with regard to homosexuality and you are relating this to modern day attitudes and comparing it with historical biblical judicial outcomes. What part of ‘men that lie with men….’ do you not understand? Christ’s example of curing the ill and lame and raising the dead, was to illustrate that there will be a time when those who have afflictions, often thought of as evil, like leprosy, unclean, or lame, would no longer be afflicted with such. So you have to ask yourself, ‘what is the norm of the human condition?’ Well, the norm is ‘male and female he created them’, and thus there was a role and a compliment between the two.
Now you claim, if I recall correctly, that you are a female in a man’s body. It would not surprise me to understand that the genetic and emotive balance could be undone, and it is acknowledged anyway that both male and female have characteristics of each within them. That leads to what is called empathy and understanding of each other’s partner. It does not lead to sexuality or expressions of such, but may lead to an appreciation of each other’s needs. What it does not do, is give the person in any extremes of such, biblical permission to disregard the norms set in place by Jehovah. There will be a time of healing in the future, until then, we have to put up with the burden. If we were all to give way to our perceptions of self, then where would we be. You point the finger at Robert and say your sole aim is to correct his ‘ego’, yet you feel your ‘ego’ is blessed by Jehovah? Ego is not a sense of self glory and importance. You refer to pride. The ID, ego and super-ego is the description of basic self, reason, and social control and overlay of reason, in much the same vein as Maslows hierarchy of need. The fact that ego has come to be understood as something else is neither here nor there.
The truth of the matter is that you can only justify your own standing by pulling down another, and on such an insignificant and human point. True transgender has little to do with sex, and far far more to do with self identity. It can be manipulated during the growth of the human processes of formation, or can even be preferred upon the conscious identity of a mature adult, just as much as it can be a hormonal expression or true disability…..or exception to the norm if you want to refer to it that way. No matter what it is, as far as Jehovah’s word is concerned, it is your spiritual standing before Jehovah that is looked for, and as the bible is the staple, and not our interpretation of it, it is by that standard that we will be judged. So I would quit obsessing about Robert. I’m sure he has his own sins to worry about. As do I and like all of us, it behoves us to look to ourselves and leave the rest to Jehovah.
I am not a psychologist, so maybe I’m confusing the technical differences between ego and pride, ill grant that. In any case, I’m not trying to correct anything on the part if RK, that’s not even possible, all I can do is point it out, which I’ve already done. As for your points on homosexuality and transgender issues, I’ve already discussed that…you’re the one that keeps bringing it up. I’ve said my piece on it…accept it ir reject it, all I ask is that your choice is based on an actual analysis of my reasoning rather than hand-waving your way through the conversation…in that case we can have an actual discussion…until then, there’s not really anything to discuss because any scripture you bring up concerning this topic, I’ve already reasoned on…but really, that’s up to you as well.
Oh, and what Moses did was far worse, which is why God’s punishment for it was so strong, as a warning example…yes, Moses was frustrated…and that frustration was born from a sense of moral superiority…now do I think that was Moses disposition in general? No, but in that moment he let his sense of self-righteousness overshadow his obligation to God…the fact is we are all sinners…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…there is not a single person who can stand and say “I am worthy” without Christ’s sacrifice, and it is absolutely critical for people who God put in positions of authority to inculcate that into their hearts because the tendency for imperfect humans to abuse that authority is si strong, and Jehovah knew that, which is why Moses needed to be an example for future generations….and God did use him, as hes used me and RK, but those who Serve areeillimg to be used by God, others who are unwilling are used to discredit Satan’s claims…either way, everything serves Jehovah’s purposes…and that’s as it should be, proving that is the reason why God has allowed sin to flourish
. More food for thought.
1 Corinthians 13:
(For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror,)
but then it will be face-to-face.
(At present I know partially,)
but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.
Good points @Tara, I remember @ewatchman saying the GB wouldn’t even finish their new HQs before the GT breaks out, fortunately @ewatchman is humble enough to adjust his view to the new reality that they finished building. Another reality that @ewatchman will have to adjust to in future is that the GB was right to move to the new location, they judiciously used the excess money they got from the sale, and that the end was not that close. @ewatchman is doing an excellent job and I am usually eager to read his latest posts but he has occasionally got exited about the end of this system happening imminently (maybe in less than a year).
The Watchtower building is still there with the sign, I believe the JW broadcast studio is there still in the city.
To Respected Tara
Even though what Robert had said did not fulfill that doesn’t mean something is wrong with Robert, even apostles of Jesus themselves were thinking that Jesus would return in their time but that did not happened, that means were they not
anointed with holy spirit? Or have you stopped reading the Bible which was written by them? Just read 1st Corin:13:12. At least Robert has mentioned I projected that the Governing Body would never complete their move out of New York, it appears that they have. Yes he has at least have the heart to accept, that is great and proves that he is different from G B of WTS. So if that is the case then I will continue to support Robert as he keeps on helping me to love Love Jehovah and Jesus.
yes of course that is only reasonable.
Oh goodness, granite shipped in from China, sounds like they spared no expense.
My head is spinning over that one 🙁
I think the watchtower confuse and justify their new building with the temple of Jehovah. Somehow, I do not agree that Jehovah would procure for his holy name a dormitory factory and luxury office block, albeit by a nice polluted lake. None the less, this is what the open letter suggests, that the funds given freely and often from want, for expanding the preaching work …..but misappropriated and used for their comfort, …….can be couched in terms of praise to Jehovah through this building. And to have the luxury of granite building blocks…..and if they use granite for the mere outer walls, one can only imagine the splendour of their apartments, ….shipped from China at the brothers expense, well, that is no mere insult to the brothers, but a positive jibe at Jehovah. How long has it been that any monies at all were expended on the preaching work? How much of the money given for preaching the name of Jehovah has instead been swallowed by the filth of offenders within the watchtower and their wrongdoing covered over by the governing body, no matter what the expense?
Well, whether this building is within the environs of New York or not is only a technicality because no matter where it is, this edifice is no more than a cesspit of iniquity and Jehovah will seek them out wherever they may go. Sometimes when I struggle with the thoughts of death and carnage coming upon this globe, I begin to see more clearly through examples such as this, how aggrieved Jehovah must feel at his breathtaking creation and provision thrown back in his face like this, the ‘shoot thrust under his nose’ by people like jehoiakim who know him not. What arrogance these people have. In fact, the only truth they spoke in that open letter was to say their good fortune was ‘underserved’. They sure got that one word right.
Religion is a air castle, fooling people, the saints (144000) They live alone in world because There are no true congregation after the apostles die. One day coming Jesus back and the saints go heaven.
Speaking of needing donations…..had an assembly yesterday and the expenses for ONE DAY (for a hall that’s totally paid off) were announced at OVER $11,000.00 US DOLLARS. ??????? How????? At the lunch break time of the announcement, collections were only at the $6,000 mark and the brother concluded by saying “we are confident you will be cheerful givers to maintain this assembly hall.” ??
I call that fleecing the flock ☞???
Exactly, they fleece the flock and try to pull the wool over their eyes. Bankers in sheeps clothing. Making a shepherds pie instead of shepherding the flock.
That was the combined cost for all the hotel expenses, new suits, cars, travel allowances, food and tips for the speakers, plus taxes from watchtower for use of premises owned by them.
you will find this vid of great interest as to why the society always announces a deficit at conventions
Wow , that was priceless!
An eye opener for sure! I was asked directly to give a donation to the regional assembly when I attended for the first time earlier this year. I was taken aback I have to say. The exact reason given in this video was used. That they were several thousand pounds under in donations what it cost to put the day on. I think I remember correctly when I say it was £11,000 that was needed for the one day. The assembly hall has been owned lock stock and barrel for decades.
Putting a dollar amount on each attendees head. I really try to stay away from all the negative, this to me is exactly the same as the corruption we see daily in the world. My home congregation had many very poor brothers and sisters who always seemed to dig up money to GIVE, to do their tiny part in spreading the Good News Of God’s Kingdom. I too, being very naive believed every dime went to The Kingdom Message. Had I been aware back then that it was supporting the Fat Cats, just don’t have an answer. all of most of the Kingdom Hall Properties back then were given free and clear to the organization, so as to help in the ministry. I realize our test in faith, I understand the man of lawlessness, but……….how are those just learning, as in my own family, those who struggle daily in their lives, yearning to know the Truth of God ever get past the dirt, to and they will, JEHOVAH, does search the heartsee the truth. These are ones who are innocent in their search, have not gotten to the point, the deeper things in the scriptures, understanding these things only by those more mature, those who have studied long enough to recognize that the scriptures speak to what is today going on in the Christian Congregation. I believe this is the exodus we see with many old timers.i know we are to wait on JEHOVAH to bring his judgement on these very ones, the fat cats, I only hope and pray those searching are able to wade through the sewage, to get to the Truth. Sorry, this just blows my mind!!!
He JEHOVAH is the reader of Hearts! I pray regularly to be able to contain anger, to rely on only JEHOVAH, my head is angry but my heart tells me I am wrong in my thinking.
Hello Joyce. The corruption of the watchtower affects me in much the same way that you describe. I lost everything to the watchtower, my children and home, my work and social standing. Not from my doing, but because my then wife ran off with another man. That was the beginning of my sojourn into the wilderness and my attachment to the creation where I could look and wonder at God. And he did not forsake me, but I had to, or was left to, wonder a long long time and wander a long time in my thoughts. For all those years I did not even pray because I had been taught that Jehovah only listens to prayers concerning the furtherance of his word by the watchtower. And of course I used to reason that if the voices of children dying of hunger went unheeded, then why would Jehovah listen to my problems? The truth of the matter is that he does, but the time is not yet, and Jehovah is impartial. We created this system and we must endure it. However, it is not the time spent in the truth that counts and neither is it how much one knows of what the bible says, it is, as you yourself mention, the condition of the heart, the love of the personification of righteousness, Jehovah. It is of no value to ponder over the wickedness that stands in the holy place and the machinations of those who seek their own glory. That just drags one down. When I was on my own, in terms of finding Jehovah, I found him in the leaves of my walnut tree that I grew from a sapling twig. It kept me waiting ten years, but then From that one bud smaller than my fingernail, would come a dozen leaves on a stem two feet long, and each leaf was the size of my hand and I would pickle the nuts and eat them all year. The first year it gave fruit, it gave me three walnuts, and the second year, 200, and the third year, 350, enough for me and the squirrel. And in that, lies the truth, the essence of provision, of generosity, the abundance of love, the example of sharing with creation, the marvel of growth, the turning of light into food, energy, for free, the rising of the sap to feed every leaf, every fruit, the safe harbour for nesting birds and insect life to free the tree from pests, the feeding of the earth every autumn, the rest during winter, well deserved, and new life in the spring. Jehovah is carried within. Don’t worry about the innocent searchers, if they are troubled by what they see, point them to the tree, and the tree of life. It speaks for Jehovah more eloquently than any living being and those that have the heart, will know the tree.
I feel the same. I almost burst into tears at the meeting last night when they announced the amount that headquarters was expecting to receive monthly from our congregation. I quit my job almost a year ago for health reasons and to give myself more time to preach. Always asking my husband if we could still do more financially. It all makes me sick. I’m having such a hard time at the meetings and in the ministry now :'(
It seems that most people that I know that know ttatt have difficulty making meetings and going out in field service. I had intended to make more meetings and do formal witnessing after I got reinstated but seems just the opposite is happening. Maybe it’s somehow a matter of new wine that can’t be put in to old wine skins. Although i think that applied to the old law and the new Christian congregation.
Probably not the case with Anderiega though. Have you slowed down Anderiega?
Don’t beat yourself up about it. It’s extremely difficult for a lot of us, once you pull back the curtain on the all powerful Org (ozz). Sometimes I wish I was wilfully ignorant about it all. Makes life very challenging. Hang in there buddy and just be happy with the best you can do. Jehovah’s proud of you!!
Willfully ignorant lol love it. I’ve thought the same.
It is comforting to know that most have difficulty, in the respect of course that we’re not alone. It’s not nice knowing that many are suffering though. I feel like I’m carrying around a huge ball and chain and having to keep secrets from those I love. Feels so wrong. I know it will get easier and Jehovah gives comfort in ways we don’t always realize. I cautiously questioned some things to one of my old Bible teachers. Needless to say, I got a letter the next day saying she was worried about me and how I should be careful what I research, how the GB is infallible, and a reference to a WT article that tells us to not rely on our conscience. Her hubby is a “Society” elder so I wasn’t surprised, I told her I was fine, that I would wait on Jehovah for understanding. Makes me so sad. I think about when Jesus felt pity because they were scattered about skinned and without a shepherd. On the other hand makes me appreciate brother King and everyone here. I find I am actually developing a stronger reliance on Jehovah and enjoying the Bible more, as I feel freed in other ways from the WTS slavery!
Hi PW ,
Have you ever been to perimeno.ca? It’s another nice source of spiritual encouragement which you may find enlightening too.
I hope this helps.
Hi LW, yes Joseph had recommended that link as well. I have been a couple of times, it seems great! Thanks so much. It does help 🙂
Alright great! By the way nice to meet you. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/26b5d2bc0907189c21e04b075fa3d8ba177cf3c8638aaa57e725c479cc24076c.jpg
Same here. Thank you 🙂
Hi Joe! To be honest, on my role call sheet, yes I suppose I’ve slowed down over the last 2 months. The last ambush “shepherding” call took a toll, but I’m still determined. My ministry is much more informal now. I listen to people more…I’m having more connections with people and I enjoy it. I missed several meetings in a row due to a class I was taking and I got some rather guilt and fear motivated feedback, but when I take a step back, I’m able to see that the friends are just acting on how they’ve been taught. So I have to remind myself to not fault them. Many Witnesses are just leaving, and it is sad, because there is a better way… LOVE. With love “all things are possible,” so in a way this is the pep talk I give myself before many meetings.
I think a reason why so many of us here on e-watchman connected is because we have a similarity. We are sensitive people. Much like the canary in the coal mine, we FEEL the dishonesty and hypocrisy, and it makes us sick. So sometimes I give myself permission to not go into the mountain, because my system just can’t handle it that particular day. It’s funny…when I try to think about this paradox we are living in….we want to stream UP to the mountain of Jehovah, but the closer we get to the end of this system, it feels (at least to me) like JWs have tried to create a short cut (1914 and already passing the test) by digging into the mountain. As canaries, we show love to our brothers by speaking truth when it doesn’t cause harm, but I think the congregations feel that all is not well in this mine.
I think one canary has had too much gas.
I don’t understand…..
tienes razon mi hermana es una verdadera lucha que todos los que hemos abierto los ojos tenemos todos los dias. en mi caso , me siento silenciado y depresivo por el trato injusto de los ancianos pero como una vez lei en un comentario de robert ,este es el campo de jehova ,lleno de cosas muy buenas pero tambien de espinos y cardos y tenemos que aprender a discernir por donde caminar y que comer …te envio saludos desde bogota ,colombia
Saludos mi hermano.
Hello and welcome!! (As a fish, I love your name) I guess this is another example of a double-edged sword. Now that we know WHY WT needs all these donations (pedophile lawsuits), we can CHOOSE how to donate our money.
A fellow sister in my circuit who attends Spanish meetings told me that their assembly costs are only about $2,000…..so yes, there is your proof that the leadership simply “makes up a number” based on projected headcount AND socioeconomic makeup of attendees. (English circuits earn more than Spanish circuits, etc….so “charge” the English circuit more.)
At first this made me angry, but now I feel more freedom. My donations truly go to Jehovah….sometimes that’s in a KH box, but lately it’s taking on other Christian forms and I love it.
LOL nice to meet a fish here 🙂 I am finding much more joy in making my donations to Jehovah in different Christian forms. I agree and enjoyed your thoughts on being the canary.
I haven’t watched but a couple of his videos but does he offer an alternative to jw’s? Does he know ttatt? Robert?
Probably not, probably thrown out the baby with the bath water unfortunately.
When I saw the title of this post I smiled because literally last week I was having a conversation with another witness and we used these exact words: “why DID WT need a new headquarters?”
After a lengthy and fun discussion, I had these thoughts. Disclaimer: I am not a prophetess. I am not saying any of this will happen. This is just a thought.
PERHAPS this IS Jehovah’s will….that headquarters be moved away from the populous Brooklyn heights to the secluded Warwick lake region so that when Jesus actually does COME (!!!) and judge his house first and the weeds are collected and burned, this collapse of the WT (all three major branch complexes are away from civilian towns) can’t be mistaken for an act of terror if it happened in Brooklyn.
It’ll be even more obvious (to onlookers and hopefully to JWs….isn’t that another curious thing: “JWs”: it’s like JEW…We took the vowel out, just like YHWH….and leadership is acting like the Pharisees more and more)… anyway, it’ll hopefully be obvious that the future judgement on WT is from God, not an attack from humans, and this will be THE signal for all Jehovah’s Witnesses to “get out.” (Although, isn’t it correct that we get out in even more future tense when WT is under Babylonian control?)
Either way, the way I think about things now is just to try to do things and think things that’ll show I’m aligning myself with Jesus and the true chosen ones, who will be revealed soon. (Hopefully!!)
I would imagine now that the watchtower has moved to Warwick it will be much more convenient for the eighth king to build a palisade or a picket fence made of wooden stakes around Ariel / the new watchtower complex as to fulfill the bible prophecy that is mentioned in the book of Isaiah.2 But I will bring distress on Arʹi·el,+And there will be mourning and lamentation,+And she will become to me like an altar hearth of God.+ 3 I will encamp on all sides against you,And I will besiege you with a palisadeAnd raise up siegeworks against you
I had in mind this was to be figurative, but, as you point out, it can be very very real as this system plays out!
Hey BK. This is Joel.
Let me ask you, is there anyway that we—those of us who comprise the E-Watchman family of believers—can start a new DISCUS FORUM, just until Robert returns? I miss the whole gang already; Joseph. . . Daisy . . . Sally . . . LW . . . Burt . . . Joyce . . . yourself . . . ElihahxSeven . . . Alex1914 . . . Joe Damn . . . Patrick . . . Lawrence . . . Anderiega, and all the rest! Let’s keep our spiritual online family together!
Do you think we can find a way to do that?
I appreciate what you’re trying to accomplish but I don’t see the point since we already have a forum here as well as the commentary section and there are numerous articles for discussion which would probably keep us busy for more than a lifetime, I mean I have read probably every article on Roberts web site many times over yet I always find something new or a different angle that I did not comprehend before. I think I will continue to post here as well as study because when new ones do come along it will make me better prepared to assist them in their search for Jehovah.
OK. So what you are suggesting is to go back and look over the multitude of “old” commentaries and post a new on those—while continuing to post on this last commentary? Is that correct?
yes that’s what I do as well as compare his work to the bible to make sure it is scripturally accurate and then I look for points that I could use out in the service,
Joel Im not sure if you know that Robert has a forum and you could find a link on the top of this page and you can get into a discussion or you can create your own discussion, check it out.
I did not know that. Thank you BK. By the way, my personal email is email@example.com. once you have it, let me know and I will delete it PRONTO!
When you comment on “old” articles, your comment shows up on the feed in the very bottom of the e-watchman page. That’s how I choose where to go….”follow the activity”….like a school of fish. But thankfully unlike a WT study where we are all netted into a specific corner on a specific day, here we can swim around the ocean of God’s word and for the purpose of “meeting together” here, we can CHOOSE where we want to go, comment, etc. It’s so much fun!!!!
Hello Joel, Daisy here…I still feel ‘online’ in the sense of keeping daily tabs here , but for me, there’s just not enough hours in the day to find time to contribute.
Can I just thank my brose for the links as I love reading them.
And tonight I’m catching up on all the podcasts that have whizzed past my head over these…oh…three years… Well…maybe not all. Just too many to keep me occupied. And I gave up the goggle box because of the lifesaving info here.
Still reading you Joel…(& everybody)…always a pleasure to tune in here. X
Thanks for those encouraging words Sis. I too am going to go look over all those past Podcasts and commentaries. So let’s keep posting those opinions and comments Daisy Girl!
I am an E-Watchman believer to the end!!!
Great points, you might be on to something!
The organization has sold about $1.25 billion in assets between 2004 and now, an analysis by the CO this past September revealed.
Hi Joe. This is Joel.
I was wondering, is there anyway that we —only those of us that make up the E-Watchman family—is there someway that we can start a new DISCUS FORUM just until Brother King returns to us? What do you think?
I think the only way a Disqus discussion can take place is within an established blog or website. In other words, we’d have to set one up specifically for that purpose. That’s something I don’t have a clue how to do. The only suggestion I can give you is, if you have a Facebook account, see who else would be interested in joining a discussion group on there…if that’s possible. I don’t know if you can do private group discussions there or not. That’s right. I’m old school. No Facebook for me 🙂 I have no idea how that works either lol.
Thanks for the concern Alex. Like you, I too am old school. I have a Facebook account but rarely, if ever, do I use it. I am not giving up though. Let’s hear from other E-Watchman family members and see what they think.
Quickly, here is my email joelrod556@firstname.lastname@example.org. As soon as you’ve written it down let me know so I can remove it fast. Go!
Good evening brother Joel,
I’m with Brooklyn Kevin on this, don’t see the need. There is plenty of food and conversion right here!! And besides Robert will chime in soon, in fact shoot him some questions and he’ll produce a podcast!!
I hear ya!
Yeah, I guess you and BK are right. I will continue to be “fed” spiritually here and in looking back over some of the older commentaries. Thanks Joe.
Do you have sound cloud on your phone? If so do a search for ewatchman.
Robert has 40 or so recorded commentaries with music and all! Very nice to listen to over and over!!
Listen to Commentary- April 22, 2016 by e-watchman #np on #SoundCloud
Yes, I do have sound cloud. OK! Alright! No we’re getting somewhere!
Thanks my brother! Thank you Joe.
Did you find them all?
Save them and go back and enjoy them from time to time!! I sure do!
I’ve been doing that too. I save them to my phone and listen to them on the way to work because I have about a half hour drive each way. And I don’t have a radio so that gives me all the more reason to do it lol!
Hold the presses. According to the latest tweet, can that be counted as having a presence there?
To be fair, they got the granite from China. They’ll divert any criticism by claiming it was cheaper from there than anywhere else.
Yes but they didn’t have to have granite. Its not compulsory.
Hi everyone! This is Joel.
Now that Brother King will not be posting any new commentaries for a while, can someone tell me where else—what other sites, blogs, forums—all of us E-Watchman devotees can meet up and encourage one another?
Do we just keep reading the “old” commentaries and posting to those, just as I am doing now?
Please, my friends, let us “not forsake our meeting together, as some do, but let us continue to encourage one another, all the more so, as we see the day drawing near.” —Heb. 10:24, 25.
‘Where else would we go?’
You tell me?
No matter what happens / takes place when we are all scattered we need to follow Jesus who has sayings of everlasting life and we do that by worshipping Jehovah GOD in spirit and truth to the very end and then Jesus will comes and declare all things to us openly.
John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ
John 6:68-B [ Jesus ] You have sayings of everlasting life.
John 6:63. It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all.
(The sayings that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.)
Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.
God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”
John 4:25 The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.”
By the way BK, where are you posting now?
I already post just about everywhere and more so were the need is great and of course on Roberts site as well as three other pages I have.
Can I also post on those other 3 pages you have? Is that possible?
I Have a face book account and I also have a google account as well as a twitter account however I just use them to RE posted Roberts work and perhaps add a little commentary of my own and I don’t generally have long conversations and usually direct people to Roberts site, basically I’m just advertising on those pages.
PS my name is Kevin Flynn and you could look up those accounts under that name as to find them
Thanks BK. I got it! You can delete this last post now if you desire.
Hi Burt. Joel here.
Let me ask you . . .is there any way that we—those of us here on this E-Watchman site—can maybe start a new DISCUS FORUM; just for us, until Robert returns?
The Forum on EW
I’ve personally been trying to use the forum that Robert set up, but it’s still a little slow going. It’s so much easier for people to comment here lol. I think reading the older articles is a great idea. I’m still finding things I didn’t know were there! Not to mention all the videos and podcasts. Robert has videos on Youtube, which also allows comments.
Personally, I don’t visit other similar sites due to the vitriol spewed on them. You can’t comment on there but perimeno.ca is another solid source encouragement. And there’s plenty of posts on here that don’t have any comments.
I’m curious to see what will this new site look like and what we can expect.
You’re not kidding about the other sites. Wow it’s bad out there. I’ve been searching online for people that seem lost and are looking for answers, but out of respect to Robert I won’t post links to his site on sites that are nothing but hate. We don’t need that ending up here. The thing that gets me is that there are so many supposed “support” sites for people that leave, but what do they offer? Nothing other than it’ll be ok, now go out and do all the things you couldn’t do before! There’s no substance or answers! Drives me nuts.
So true 1914. I think of the many ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses who left the truth and started to advocate for the very false Christendom doctrines they were once against! How sad. Never do any of us here on E-Watchman want to show disdain and disrespect for the truth like that.
I am too! Thanks LW
Join us on e-jw.org!
It’s the original ewatchman forum, basically.
Thanks James. I wil give it a shot!
Just be careful out there Joel.
“Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.”
I say this, not because I think James is trying to trip you up, but I took a quick look at the site and came across some things that concern me. The biggest one is in their end times chronology. One of the charts has a breakdown of end time events, and it lists years, months and specific days that certain things are going to take place. I have no idea how those dates were thought up, but we’re not supposed to know that stuff. Does everyone there believe what’s posted? I don’t know. I’m just worried that if that is posted there, there could be other serious problems. Just trying to look out for you.
Good lookin’ out 1914. Believe me, I WILL be careful. In truth, I just want to stay here with you guys! All of you! I’ve grown so fond of all of you . . . you’re like my spiritual family. Is there anyway we can start a new DISCUS FORUM just for us until Brother King returns?
Sent you an email.
OK, I will look. Thanks
Emailed back. check it out.
Did someone here her about “Cloud Ring and Trumpet Sounds, heard in Jerusalem”?
Don’t believe everything on YouTube, people can manipulate things to fit a agenda.
Why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.—Rom. 14:10.
Tera, I don’t know you, I don’t know your struggle. But I do have to say, I find your love for Jehovah and his son amazing! May Jehovah continue to find favor in you.
Hello Joseph, I do not intend to judge a person, indeed, I sometimes would rather take a weak approach to issues and say nothing….a time to speak, a time to stay silent. However, if for example you met this kind of reasoning from Tara on the ministry, would you accept that or argue the issues? So what are the issues here?
Primarily, that Tara has offered to Jehovah a sacrifice that even Jesus could not offer. Tara seems to suggest through his site dialogue that this sacrifice was his acquiescing his own life and hope of resurrection. This indicates that he at least sees something contrary to Jehovah’s demands in his actions. Secondly, Tara legitimises the love between two people of the same sex by saying that love transcends actions. ‘The greatest of these is love’. However, it is not for Tara to define the meaning of love, it is for Jehovah. Jehovah sets the definition of love and all types of love are pure. There is no question of that in the bible. Tara contradicts himself here by saying that love between those of the same sex in a relationship (relationship being the key word) does not necessarily include physical love, but the bible says otherwise. How can it not be….’fill the earth and subdue it’.
Tara goes on to say that he is a woman in a man’s body. Modern understanding suggests that our physical decline and the corruption of our DNA has come to a point whereby that anomily is understandable, if not factual. Basavaraj points out correctly that though that anomily is possible in our understanding, it is no more than other disabilities that we have to endure and that we must wait for Jehovah’s time to be relieved of such. Tara counters this by stating that he is not referring to sex, but to the love between two people. If this is not brotherly or sisterly love, being termed as a ‘relationship’ it can only be the love between two of the opposite sex and all that such implies. After all, if one is attracted to the same sex to the exclusion of the opposite sex, then it follows that the attraction has or includes sexual feelings, again, as Basavaraj pointed out in his rebuttal. To deny that is simply nonsensical.
Then there is Tara’s claim that Jehovah speaks to him through his grandmother and his grandmother interprets Jehovah’s will to him. Added to this is that he says Jehovah will in due time change him into a woman while he sleeps and that he will go and preach to the congregation, and that they will be able to believe in him IF they understand Jehovah’s love. This is contrary to what the bible describes as love; what it offers in prophesy, the bibles continuity, its theme, and the purposes set out for mankind.
Being sinful ourselves, it is right that you point out the issue of judging. The bible, as you know, says so…do not judge, lest you yourself are judged. Thus it behoves us to allow degrees of difference between us all. However, we can do no less than read what the bible says and the bible contradicts, if not condemns all of Tara’s arguement. Is to challenge these issues a judgement against Tara, or a statement of comparison between what he claims is the truth of the bible, and what the bible actually says? Moreover, is there room to believe otherwise? And is this not what we do on the ministry? And why? Because in our heart, we know that if what Tara says were true, or even had elements of truth, then the whole law according to sin and redemption is thrown into the fire. Is there confusion like this in the bible? Are we led to believe anywhere that before the times set out by Jehovah, some people could change sex so that others can believe in a medical condition and that this will somehow lead to their salvation? Are we to believe that Jehovah is so unclear in his direction that he has to speak through grandmothers to get his word across to his prophet? For what purpose would this be?
Would Jehovah leave his prophet so unclear in his sayings that he cannot explain his own situation without resorting to threats of Devine displeasure if we do not believe him or dare argue? I am not suggesting Robert is a prophet, but look at the clarity of his writing. There is no discord, there is no ambiguity, there is no room for doubt of the word of Jehovah. Clearly he has understanding, but does not claim Devine intervention, nor would there be. Only the allowance of insight, similar, one might suggest, as to the enlightenment of Pentecost, in my mind, but this may be no more insight that the governing body may claim. Who knows? Does it matter? No. But people recognise truth naturally.
I have enough sin of my own to bear. I have compared what Tara says to the scripture and have challenged Tara to answer from the bible. He has not been willing. I have not challenged to raise myself up as one knowledgeable, because for one, I freely admit that many others have more knowledge than I do. But I do know the difference between truth and opposition from wheresoever borne. As to Roberts post on mental illness, it may not be narcissism on Tara’s part and if anything is judgemental it is the presumption of such if there is no evidence, yet in all honesty, there is evidence of such and it is well documented and is borne out of just the sort of confusion that is expressed.
The true kindness here would be to stand up and say to Tara that he should seek help because his confusion, and it is confusion, is a prime symptom of the condition he claims due to the ambiguity of his condition (similar in many ways to extreme ambidexterity resulting in what is called ‘leakage’ from one side of the brain to the other in terms of dominance and reasoning and devision making), and if he can be given insight….and that is eminently possible…..then he can in Jehovah’s time, acquire the body to fit his soul. It is at this point here and now, that the trust in Jehovah belongs to him, and not in the arguements of trying to find a biblical reason to justify the conflicts that plague his mind. If this is judgement, then I condemn myself as you say, but I hope for my sake that it is just insight extended to offer a helping hand for one so sorely conflicted. I like to think it is well intentioned, but others may feel differently and to them I acknowledge their criticism.