KINGDOM BULLETIN #13

//KINGDOM BULLETIN #13

To the Elders,                                                                            September 28, 2017

Most of Jehovah’s Witnesses will react in abject disbelief. They will simply not believe their eyes. To be sure, it is unbelievable. The mere suggestion that men ostensibly dedicated to Jehovah would intentionally design an assembly hall to resemble the occultic eye and pyramid is incredible. But they did. (See photocopy of Google Earth image included)

Jehovah’s Witnesses will struggle to find some alternative explanation to relieve themselves of the horrifying reality that over the past 25 years the many thousands of trusting brothers and sisters who gathered in worship at their annual convention in Denmark were oblivious to the fact that they were convening in the eye of Horus. But there is no other reasonable explanation. It was intended so.

It is unbelievable that men in trusted positions of responsibility could be so absolutely treacherous and that they would deliberately offend Jehovah. But they have.

According to the 1993 YearBook report on Denmark the congress hall in Silkeborg, Denmark, was designed and built by Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Governing Body reviewed and approved the project and Lloyd Barry presided over the dedication of the facility. But who is it really dedicated to?

Satan has always coveted the worship of Jehovah. That is why from the very beginning in ancient times Israel repeatedly succumbed to idolatry. After David died Solomon built the magnificent temple of Jehovah, but in his later days he also built temples to the gods of his many foreign wives. After Jehovah divided the kingdom Jeroboam instituted calf worship for the convenience of the Israelites. And on and on it went. Eventually the temple of Jehovah itself became filled with the disgusting things of demon worship. We know how all of that ended.

While the Watchtower boasts of practicing pure worship, what can be said for the Silkeborg congress hall? In the spirit of Paul, who posed the question to the Romans: “You, the one abhorring idols, do you rob temples?” —the question should be asked of the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses: You, the ones who abhor the crucifix, do you build meeting places to honor Horus?

It is here acknowledged that as of September, 2017, the congress hall has been sold to the municipality of Silkeborg; nevertheless, that does not absolve the Governing Body of responsibility. Why are Jehovah’s Witnesses going to continue to assemble in the eye of Horus as renters for the next 2 years? The righteous reformers in Bible times did not sell off the idolatrous high places to the highest bidder, did they? Those sites were desecrated and made unfit. When Moses smashed the golden calf, did he re-purpose the gold from which it was fashioned?

How much better it would have been for those who pride themselves on being the big trees of righteousness to have demolished the Silkeborg site and ground it into dust. Jehovah would have commended them. Instead, now they must accept the guilt of having tolerated an evil in their midst.

Of course, the Governing Body will never acknowledge their responsibility. As in other matters, such as the Watchtower’s ten year secret partnership with the United Nations, the thousands of pedophiles who have been shielded from criminal prosecution by Bethel’s lawyers, not to mention 1914 fraud, they will continue to lie —to cover up. But the hour is approaching for the judgment to begin.

The question posed in the concluding verse of the fifth chapter of Jeremiah is most appropriate: “The prophets prophesy lies, and the priests dominate by their own authority. And my own people love it that way. But what will you do when the end comes?”

A video entitled: Jehovah’s Witnesses – In the Eye of Horus is available on YouTube. Details of Jehovah’s coming judgments have been published in the book: Jehovah Himself Has Become King —available on Amazon and online. Robert King’s personal website is e-watchman.com. Jehovas Vidners in Denmark are being contacted via letters to congregations and through the public media. This letter is also being distributed to congregation elders in Britain, Canada and the US via snail mail and electronically. To view the congress hall from satellite perspective simply enter the following address in Google Maps and click on satellite view in the lower left corner: Helsinkivej 3A-E, 8600 Silkeborg, Denmark

Kingdom Bulletin #13 PDF

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2017-09-28T10:00:07+00:00 September 28th, 2017|Bulletins|315 Comments
  • J.M.J.

    Robert .To submit planning for this entity ,they would of had to of offered drawings .One of these would of had to of been a plan view ,so there is no saying they were not aware of it .It is and always was in plain sight .

    • Nigel

      I have thought that very same thing.

    • i dont get your point.
      Robert knows who are aware of it JMJ. you think Robert thinks they just designed it blindfolded and the weeds dont know what they do?

      • J.M.J.

        The point is .When building plans are put forward there has to be a front elevation (view) ,a side elevation ,and a plan .The plan view is an aerial view ,(as in looking down from above) With these views that they submit ,they cannot say they (W.B.T.S.) were not aware of what it looks like from above as the plan view shows it . It was nothing to do with Robert not knowing .Probably down to my bad diction .

        • No, I appreciate that. I did not know that an ariel view would have been required in the architectural plans.

          • J.M.J.

            Usually when submitting for building panning it requeres all three views .The plan view is really an ariel view .It is in the U.K. Part of the planning process and it would of required a view of the complete construction as well as any ajoining buildings I would say it would be the same in most countries .

            • The Raven

              It is here in the states too. Even my electrical prints showed those views from prposals to project planning and bidding all the way down to as-built final prints.

            • J.M.J.

              I was fairly sure it was ,and is common practice world wide .Having done and still do Architectural drawings we were taught the British and American drawing standards .

        • yes i realise that. i looked in the artical first thinking you were getting “not aware” from the article or somthing. i get now that you were just saying

          • J.M.J.

            I was using the not aware ,and saying by the nature of plans submitted .The aerial view is given in a plan view . I did not help by putting Robert at the start .Sorry ,also my bad .

    • Noe Namely

      Yes… when I saw complex I immediately recalled the BluePrints of our log home I built in 1999 & 2000. The prints had exterior elevations from every angle, including a view looking straight down at the project including the roof, attached porch roofs, deck wrapping around the house, side walks, landscaping, drive way… etc, all was scaled & shown in great detail. I too thought the planners had to have seen the entire overall view at first glance as I did with my own Blue Prints? Naturally, I can’t say for sure but I did think it was no mistake when I saw the Drone’s view looking down on the Eye of Horace, entire building & surrounding area. I felt that someone in a decision making capacity must have known exactly what was being built considering the price tag of a project of this scale? No disrespect intended but it almost had to have been known by the Dept. that studied
      & OK’ed the costs, even the impact it would make on public opinion. I’ve always seen Watchtower as a detail oriented group….”doing all things as if they were for Jehovah.”

      • Mick Hewitt

        unfathomable!

      • Burt Reynolds

        I think it worth calculating the odds of the eye of Horace appearing in a building, complete with scrolls, and in proportion, and in a triangle, by chance. As Mick says, ‘unfathomable’.

  • Alex Henrique

    Very sad this point of view, Robert. I think you went beyond the bounds by saying that INEGAVELY there is in the project from the assembly room an iniquitous objective.

    Should there be any connection with iniquity in the design of this hall, since the WTS sold this hall, would not this be like removing the “idolized idols” from the middle of Israel?

    So you want to condem the WTS at any cost?

    • When are you going to pull your head out of your ASS?
      never?

    • I explained the inappropriateness of selling the hall. It should be torn down and Jehovah’s Witnesses in Denmark should not be allowed to continue to meet there. I am going to do everything in my power to inform the Danish Jehovas Vidners.

      • amen

      • Craig Knight

        Go get em Robert – Send out letters to all the congregations like you did with their involvement with the UN. The leadership will just try to sweep this one under the rug!

        • I can’t afford to do ALL the kingdom halls like I did before. But I can do a couple thousand.

          • im sorry 🙁

          • Craig Knight

            How can I be of help? Maybe Patreon support? I haven’t done that before but would love to help out. It’s for a great cause. I will look at your home page and see if I can figure it out.

            • print out the pdf file and drop it off at a Kingdom Hall or e-mail this article to whomever

            • Craig Knight

              Great idea! I know of several KH’s near me. A mass mailing would be more effective. I suppose we could go online and get KH addresses also.

            • KB

              On http://www.jwleaks.com there is a section on the left side of the page. Click Kingdom Hall locations, click the state you want. All Kingdom Hall locations and phone numbers come up.

            • Craig Knight

              Thanks KB that’s a great site. I have saved it to my favorites list. I’m going to start working on a letter to send out.

            • into the light
            • KB
            • into the light

              Probably a redirect issue since the address in your screenshot is not the same… Just so you are aware, some KH info on this site is out of date since some halls listed there that I know haven’t been on those addresses for years.

            • KB

              Yea, its real sketchy at times. It goes away for 6 months then will pop back up. It’s crazy hard to get it to load. Some information is out dated I’m sure. It’s got some good stuff though, elders book, letters, a lot of confidential stuff. Overall pretty good, if you can get it to work.

        • Isaac of Coimbatore

          Sweeping under the rug? Infection spreads. LOL!!

      • Andres Felipe

        Translation by Google: Everyone should know what happens … How can we help?

        • If you are inclined you can share the video with your contacts and social media. I intend to do a press release in the US and Denmark. So, if any of the media picks it up it would be good to have the video already out there.

          • Andres Felipe

            Google Translation :
            I’ll be eager to watch the video. you can translate it into Spanish to be able to benefit, if possible … thank you

    • Craig Knight

      Alex – I took graphic design many years ago and with architecture you are taught to draw structures from all angles including all sides and views from above. Do you really think the WTS was unaware of the view from above? Especially when the GB reviewed and approved it themselves. How many properties have you ever seen in the shape of a pyramid? You are entitled to your wrong opinion on this one.

      2 Cor 6:15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.” 17“Therefore come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.”…

      According to the 1993 YearBook report on Denmark the congress hall in Silkeborg, Denmark, was designed and built by Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Governing Body reviewed and approved the project and Lloyd Barry presided over the dedication of the facility. But who is it really dedicated to?

      • Alex Henrique

        I’ve also been involved with architecture for a long time. And I have learn that sometimes Architects make mistakes. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4b690fc505938d1e8aa859c127bbfc75b39bb40bdbe9bf96660a33e84ce30ae4.jpg

        • Daisy

          Isn’t that called sex magic Alex…If someone drew female shapes above each phallus then they might just procreate and produce another bridge, not identical but similar…just kidding…that’s deliberate design to keep folks heads on fleshly carnal thoughts..not a mistake imo and dedicated to the ruler of this world, just like the Danish jw building.

          • Yeah, but the bridge porno would not even be visible at night or on cloudy days, and judging by the angles of the shadow, only visible a few minutes a day on certain months when the sun is at the right angle. The Silkeborg hall, on the other hand, is always there. It is not a play on shadows and light.

            • Richard Long

              Regarding the bridge, maybe not? The structural shapes seem to be trinity symbology. Also, we haven’t accounted for whatever affect the artificial lighting scheme, if any exists, may have been designed to produce. Anyone know just where that bridge is? Alex?

            • The Raven
        • The Raven

          That was an unfortunate oversight imo by not taking into account shadow and light and tourists get a good laugh out of their embarrassing mistake. But I dont think it compares. The prints themselves would have been sufficient to make them “see” what this looked like.

        • Craig Knight

          Then you must be aware of the bird’s eye view in architecture!

          A bird’s-eye view is an elevated view of an object from above, with a perspective as though the observer were a bird, often used in the making of blueprints, floor plans, and maps.
          It can be an aerial photograph, but also a drawing. Before manned flight was common, the term “bird’s eye” was used to distinguish views drawn from direct observation at high locations (for example a mountain or tower), from those constructed from an imagined (bird’s) perspectives. Bird’s eye views as a genre have existed since classical times. The last great flourishing of them was in the mid-to-late 19th century, when bird’s eye view prints were popular in the United States and Europe.

    • The Raven

      So then you are implying they knew it was and sold it? Mistakes, i can surely understand but something this obvious should have made more than a few say hmmm? I truly dont believe robert attacks the wto out of malice or spite. If you accept that they are dealing with the mol and a deluding influence then i would say this was not that surprising. In fact, we can expect more to be revealed.

    • no, it would be like finding a pound of cocaine in your house then selling it to the highest bidder.

      imo if it were to be remodeled along with apology then that would be good knowing others honest work and contributions that went into it, but its sold now

      • The Raven

        Lol! Someone in my county actually did sell a huge amount of coke he found. He’s doing time now. I agree about remodeling or just tearing it down.

  • Paul H

    By selling the “eye of Horus” property to any other party, the WTS is directly responsible for the continuation of idolatry…There simply is no valid argument to downplay this serious matter.

    Im still hoping that the WT$ will release an official statement explaining their actions. However, my common sense tells me that they will hide themselves under the umbrella of “new light” and ignorance and deflect any responsibility while denying everything….

    Nothing to see here folks, move along….Back to business as usual….

    • Alex Henrique

      Did they sell because they recognize that an act of idolatry has been committed? Or did they sell what they thought was causing a stumbling block?
      At any cost do you have to condemn WTS attitudes?
      I really find it hard to say that there was an unambiguous project of something related to the “Eye of Horus”. For me it was an unfortunate coincidence.
      Eventually it was an adaptation to a land they had available. From
      this situation came the intriguing design of the supposed “Eye of
      Horus.” It’s a shame that there are many who always have stones in their
      hands to shoot at the WTS whenever they suspect something is wrong,
      always in their point of view, not the point of view of Jehovah God.
      If David were alive today, they would be stoned by those who criticize the WTS. Jehovah God having forgiven David is irrelevant. David needs to be stoned!

      • An “unfortunate coincidence” that the assembly hall just happened to be designed like the eye of Horus? There is naivety and then there is sheer stupidity.

        Jehovah forgave David, but he also severely punished him. And besides, David admitted his error – something the WT has never done and never will.

        Most interesting, there were over 16,000 Jehovas Vidners in Denmark when the eye of Horus congress was built as the national assembly hall. Now, 26 years later, after thousands of hours of preaching and door knocking, and who-knows-how-many tons of literature placed, there are 14,000 JVs in Denmark. An unfortunate coincidence, indeed.

      • The Raven

        The thing pretty much speaks for itself. Expect folks to call a spade a spade. The wedge property is problematic but after planning presented this , given who the wto are they should have refused it. The thing this represents is not something they are unfamiliar with. Yet they approved it. Would you have? I wouldn’t. This gives more weight to the belief that there is a man of lawlessness and a deluding influence at work here.

        • Craig Knight

          Absolutely right my man!

      • Max

        An “Unfortunate coincidence” of this magnitude it’s very hard to believe Alex. I can tell you by my own experience at the headquarters that every construction project is heavily reviewed by several committees and several brothers so this kind of “unfortunate coincidence “ don’t happen. The particular assembly hall was finally reviewed and approved by the branch office in Holland so no my brother “unfortunate coincidence” No Way! This kind of coincidence doesn’t just happen in the organization unless they are made to happen. We can not be that naive anymore to believe it was just the terrain or a coincidence.

        • Daisy

          And that’s a truth Max! You should know and I believe you 🙂

        • The Raven

          Exactly! Hi Max! Thanks for posting your experiences. It always means a lot from someone who was privy to those sorts of matters.

      • Richard Long

        Alex, you ask some very interesting questions and appear to provide an answer for same, having drawn a specific conclusion, which is your right.
        Please permit me to make some observations.

        It is true that “necessity” is a valid defense for any number of offenses up to and including even causing the death of another. However, such a defense may only excuse the offender of consequence when determined to be valid by the trier of fact under due process.

        The WT in this instance, as in every previous instance of documented institutional wrongdoing, shows every intent of evading the due process necessary to allow the trier of fact opportunity to either excuse or condemn their actions.

        I do not have the wherewithal to give instruction in jurisprudence, but suffice to say in matters of the earthly organization, WE are the trier of fact, the King of God’s Kingdom is the arbiter of law and the ORG holds itself above our scrutiny This is the epitome of lawlessness.

        I redirect you to paragraph 2 of the bulletin and assure you there is no shame in finding oneself reflected there.

        Blessings and peace to your house

  • Isaac of Coimbatore

    Never believe corporate guys

    • The Raven

      I had a hard time trusting men in expensive suits. They either got me in trouble or cost me money.

      • Isaac of Coimbatore

        Really

        • The Raven

          Lol!

        • The Raven

          It was a joke. Lol!

  • into the light

    Br. @ewatchman:disqus I have to point out that you are wrongly pushing the notion of this being Eye of Horus. A simple search confirms this is called The eye of Providence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence

    Eye of Horus
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Horus

    I also find it interesting that some of the old catherals in Europe depict God’s name in similar manner.

    http://www.propheticexplorer.com/images/yhwh.jpg

    Regards
    itl

    • Alex Henrique

      Checkmate.

      • You really confirm the scripture: “My own people love it that way.”

    • It is called both the eye of Horus and the Eye of Providence and the All-seeing eye. I pointed that out in the video. You might want to watch it. But, the Silkeborg congress hall is obviously intended to honor Horus, since, as I also pointed out, the campgrounds are laid out to replicate the head dress Horus wears in various images and reliefs. Besides, if the Watchtower wanted to honor YHWH why not just build that into the design instead of replicating the illuminati logo?

      I honestly don’t know what’s wrong with some of you people. Most of you have so little regard for truth. I can barely tolerate you.

      • avoid your youtube channel comments man; just little doses at a time or you’ll be a grouch like me

      • into the light

        @ewatchman:disqus I didn’t mean to sound confrontational or to throw down your arguments, but any search I do doesn’t connect the two but points that they are different things. Indeed, the facts point to Eye of Providence having the origin in Christendom.
        http://www.wga.hu/detail/p/pontormo/3/04emmaus.jpg

        There are a lot of instances of it in religious art and architecture of Christendom.

        And please don’t assume that I disregard the truth. I’m just trying to do my part in making sure “whether these things were so”.

        Proverbs 18:17

        Kind regards
        itl

      • Cathii D’Anthonii

        “listening” is almost a dead and lost art form….

    • youre in denial man. seek Jehovah on the matter. stop defending the Watchtower when they are in the wrong. keep denying this then how much more will you when more is revealed? we aint here to pick on Jehovah’s witnesses. we are Jehovah’s witnesses

      • into the light

        I am by no means defending WT. What I am trying to do is make sure these claims are true. I respect br. King and appreciate the effort he puts into making sure people are aware of MOL influence.

        • ok ?
          never-mind then

        • The Raven

          Depictions run the gamut from pagan idolatry to the hat tip to “god” and even the trinity. Modern day culture is awash in these symbols as are those who study the links to the nwo and satanic influence in whatever form they may be. Many times conflated with each other. Just look at pop culture. Now there’s an eyeful! None of these depictions should have ever been considered for a wto project.

          • into the light

            I agree. The imagery might have been concealed before in pop culture but in the last decade or so it’s become glaringly obvious.

            • The Raven

              Yep. It’s everywhere you look. I can hardly watch a music video without seeing it or some singer circling their eye. I wonder sometimes if they even have any idea? Like the “i love you ” hand sign and the horns lol!

          • into the light
            • The Raven

              Yes, i can but i won’t post it here. Look up “Ghost” rock band and watch Square Hammer and the pinnacle and the pit. Loaded with freemasonry and satanic symbolism. Catchy tunes but in your face. Clean and no language btw. Then tell me what you think. 🙂

            • into the light

              I am familiar with that band. Straight satanism. If it wasn’t for blatant use of satanistic imagery and lyrics I would dig their music.

            • The Raven

              I know! That sucks! I listen to hard rock and metal but it’s hard to sort it out. So many have given in to that garbage either thinking it’s cool or really are satanists it tells you what pays in the industry and who runs it.

            • into the light

              Luckily we are not forced to listen or watch any of those things, and Jehovah gave us a gift of conscience along with the manual how to use it so it makes it easier. But on a lighter note, I sometimes meditate on what humans will be capable of doing after being elevated out of our sinful state. Now that will be music! 🙂

            • The Raven

              Sure thing! What the wto did by approving those plans for the site has folks confounded. As we discussed the “eye” and the surrounding site layout and landscaping are a mile too far for this to have been an oversight or mistake. I agree with you that you attribute this to the MOL and the deluding influence they are under.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I read the other day, on you tube I think, about a man who recorded crickets singing and slowed it down in search of any other sounds. The effect, if true, was nothing short of ‘hearing the planets revolve’. One could say almost holy in its harmonics. See if you can find it.

            • into the light

              Hi Burt, I know of this. I heard it a couple years ago. You can listen to it here.

              Created by Jim Wilson, this enchanting recording contains two tracks: the natural sounds of chirping crickets, and the crickets played several octaves lower.

              Though it may sound like a synthesizer or a chorus singing; it’s the crickets themselves slowed way down, creating the effect of a choir of human voices. The sound created is a simple diatonic 7-note scale chord progression and melody with a multi-layered structure.

              There was also a Justin Bieber recording with similar effect.

            • Burt Reynolds

              If a justin beiber record had similar effect, there must be something heinously wrong with the recording process. My nice thought about the crickets having a wonderful song had been shattered. ?

            • into the light

              It’s just that slowing down changes the pitch and allows your brain to process sound in more detail. You become able to discern how the sounds are laid out and how they harmonize with each other.
              In any case it’s just another proof of Jehovah’s genius. I like to take walks in nature and am always trying to be mindful of all the sounds around me. It really is music to my ears.

              Humans can benefit from natural environments to restore from stress and directed attention fatigue. A human can endure high levels of stress for short time periods as long as these periods are interrupted by restoration moments.

              While a natural environment provides more sensory input than the soundscape there are indications that the soundscape alone also affords restoration. A majority of humans indicate that they find natural sounds pleasurable.

              Source

              I thank Jehovah thru our Lord Jesus for giving us such marvelous things.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Well, yes, I agree with what you say, but come on…. Beiber sounds cannot be termed as natural can they!?

            • into the light

              I don’t want to judge the tastes in music. I’m sure there are many out there who believe Bieber to be the best thing music has to offer currently… But if you listen to that slowed down recording it doesn’t even sound like him; or anyone else for that matter.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I can believe that, into the light. …..but don’t worry about what I say, I’m just a bit weird. Serious about the subject of truth, but weird. I have Post Traumatic Society Disorder.

            • into the light

              Haha the true meaning of PTSD 👌

            • Craig Knight

              That’s a keeper Burt! Lol!

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi into the light, how long you been visiting this site

            • into the light

              Hi Jamie, I think it has been around a year and a half since I stumbled onto here.

            • Jamie Mac

              Burt, I am surprised you have heard of him, let alone spell his name correctly 🙂

            • Craig Knight

              I love the crickets! That was great but Bieber needs a good kick in the butt!

            • The Raven

              10-4. Lol!

            • Craig Knight

              Give Jazz a try like Coltrane, Miles Davis etc, that’s great stuff!

            • The Raven

              I listen to that too. And reggae, ska and a number of other things, but my mainstay has always been hard rock and metal. Back in the Bronx when rap and break dancing first began I went to school with some of the earliest and they were known as street prophets back then. After the blackout they really got big ( electronics stores were looted) but once the big producers took over even that became rotten. Seems like everything and everyone they touch just degenerates to a point where I can’t tolerate it. Few produce great music without all the added trash.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hard rock and metal? All this time I have thought that with a name such as Raven, you were bursting with wisdom and insight, law and knowledge and then you come up with hard rocks and iron bars! Blue grass I could understand, as well as glen Miller, and the great jazz artists. I shall have to report you to the Governing backing group…..Jeff Jackson and the Apostate Six.

            • The Raven

              Haha! If you must. I like many sorts of music. My mother who spoke hardly a word of english loved reggae. She said it was happy music. They could write uplifting songs about some very unfortunate situations. The radio in the hallway stayed on an italian station all day. I had one in my room tuned to american ones. Late at night i would listen to the wolfman jack show. I hated disco.

            • Craig Knight

              I like all kinds of music but mostly jazz instrumentals. Rap is my least favorite but even some of that is good. Street prophets that’s a new one to me. God gave us music as a gift to bring us joy. There’s music and singing in heaven. God loved David for his singing and dancing. Saul was comforted when David played for him. Music is a grand thing and of course the Devil turns it into trash as you say like He does everything else. But there is still a ton of great music out there. I don’t listen to classical music that much but Mozart is amazing.

            • The Raven

              One thing i always loved about good music and good food you didnt have to speak the language to enjoy it and it always brought people together. I remember summer weekends at orchard beach when i was a kid. A crowded sweaty hour long bus ride to a packed picnic area with numerous small groups playing everything from italian, latino, polish polka, calypso (Harry Belafonte) and german music. All it took was one call for conga line and everyone jumped in! And the food! Now I’m hungry… ,?

            • Craig Knight

              Sounds like good times to me! 🙂

            • The Raven

              Yeah man! I love a party!

            • The Raven

              I will give you an upvote for posting those jazz greats!

            • into the light

              Interestingly Prince was one of JWs and he also did the sign.

              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b975c8eb39c6cc2e6723365aa86d0f3f533909a4c1d6f14906c60a4fb601ab5b.png

              His later works included a third eye symbolism too.

              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/21bf7a44a1f65096c18a6be0d31219499ea31473077d8edd6035b0a169905453.png

              What is wto’s position on him?

            • The Raven

              I don’t know. I followed his music career since he began, but I believe he became a witness later in life. Known as brother Nelson. Maybe witnesses here can tell you.

            • into the light

              The last image i posted is from 2015 when he was supposedly one of JWs. As per this article he got involved with JWs in 2001. It seems this was tolerated on the part of the org.

            • Richard Long

              What was WTO’s position on him? Keep sending in the checks, maybe?

            • The Raven

              SMH and Lol!

            • Craig Knight

              Michael Jackson was in my uncle’s congregation back in the 80’s. He befriended my cousin who was much younger in his early teen years. Micheal would come and visit him in his Rolls. Jackson’s parent’s were JW’s. I know his mother was for sure.

            • The Raven

              That’s interesting. The first photo I could let by . The second I’d want to know more about. Did he ever explain that?

            • into the light

              I’m not sure. And as far as I know JWs don’t talk about him much. But, as a public persona, his words and actions have more weight and reach more people, so that’s why I find it interesting that this imagery was something he thought was appropriate to use.

              Prince is pop culture icon, easily remembered for sex appeal and steamy lyrics. But, he was also a conservative Christian and his later lyrics rang clear with spiritual themes. It was obvious his religion was important to him, but even more clear that love came before everything else.

              Something is just off in all this…

            • The Raven

              Without knowing him personally and since those associated don’t feel they should speak about him I can’t really say. But I think you may be able to find an explanation for that half sunglass somewhere as I’m certain the rags would have been all over it.

            • into the light

              third eye
              noun
              1.
              HINDUISM
              the locus of occult power and wisdom in the forehead of a deity, especially the god Shiva.

              In many mystical teachings and religions, the opening of the Third Eye is an important step in a spiritual awakening. For example, the Third Eye Chakra is said to help one become more introspective and aware of the deeper meanings of life. In the last few years, Prince had embraced the third eye symbol, wearing third eye sunglasses to public appearances and incorporating the symbol into his performances.

              Source

            • The Raven

              I know what it is. Nevermind. I just read it. Well, that to say the least is incompatible. Lol!

            • into the light

              I don’t know. But I know this: as a JW you’d think he would distance himself from any kind of occult symbols.

            • The Raven

              True. Consider the drugs. Lots to do with that imo.

            • The Raven

              What I can tell you is many folks enjoyed his music and were happy he found jehovah. Looks like he had a number of problems and he’s not in any pain anymore. Beyond that only God really knows.

            • into the light

              One brother once told me that Jehovah requires from us 100% devotion. Satan, on the other hand, doesn’t. He will be happy with 1% that we don’t give to Jehovah.
              Knowing that Jehovah requires our exclusive devotion we should shun anything that in any way promotes the spirit of this world. But I agree in your saying only God knows. He does and he will judge accordingly.

            • The Raven

              Devotion yes. Perfection, well no one gets it right all the time. We are expected to do our best and will face plant every once in while. Jehovah is also a God of mercy.

            • into the light

              I agree. We are not perfect and fall short of the glory of god (Romans 3:23). But please keep in mind that it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking that Jehovah will tolerate bad behaviors just because he is merciful. Nahum 1:3

            • Burt Reynolds

              Jehovah is impartial and so he judges each according to their heart condition. I suppose ‘bad’ is pro-rata with intent as far as our trying to do what is right. Each will vary according to their moral strength and faith. If Jehovah judged as by what is bad, none of us would stand. The ransom is part of that forgiveness and long suffering on Jehovahs part. I suspect it is at the end of the one thousand years that we have to stand accountable to the full. Sometimes I think I’m going to need every day of it.

            • into the light

              I could’ve used 1000 words and not be able to express what you did in a few sentences. Thanks!

            • The Raven

              I agree. Thats why we should pay attention to what goes on.

            • Isaac of Coimbatore

              The thing what you have said regarding Shiva is correct. After all Shiva was an unclean demonic god. I can’t post his behavior here because everyone will vomit if you hear his actions mostly he had the practice of ejaculation.

            • Richard Long

              And there is plenty to suggest his attempts to break free of occult influences led to his untimely demise.

            • The Raven

              Wasn’t it drugs? He was also in a lot of pain in his hips.

            • The Raven

              Neither did the record lable he got into a fight over contracts with. Remember the artist formerly known as prince?

            • Burt Reynolds

              I’ve been formally known as many things before and none of them very complimentary.

            • The Raven

              Well, looks like I’ve got company. Lol!

            • Burt Reynolds

              I have always doubted the motives of people who carry on such a worldly life yet somehow sanction it within the confines of the Word. One only has to look at the starstruck ‘brothers’ wallowing in ‘prince’s ‘ limelight to see clearly the issues. I think Prince, who was formally known as someone else was either very naive and shallow in his understanding as with many superficial Christians or simply enjoyed the kudos that adulation from the brothers brought him. They in turn would have had a field day showing how they saw only the man, whilst at the same time bathing in his fame……as was evident at his untimely end. That this would have been fostered by the watchtower is evident by their greed for money. Call me Mr cynical, but how does one equate the lifestyle with the biblical requirements? There can only be one understandable reasoning along the lines of a failure to grasp the basics of truth. As we can see in the superficial functioning of the congregants, that issue is all to evident, as is the blindness that goes with it.

            • The Raven

              Many good points. I think witnesses who became famous decades ago had an easier time of it. I knew a comedic actor who married a big band singer and both evetually left Hollywood and the business afterwards to pioneer. For years they preached to some very famous folks. In the 80s he told me it would become very difficult not to get wrapped up in some very bad practices among those types and it was getting worse. He told me the devil targets everyone that’s true but he especially wants those with a following. Many birds with one stone.

            • Craig Knight

              George Benson is an Elder at one time and He seems pretty humble for a famous musician but He’s an exception in the music business.

            • trudy

              I am not sure if he stopped all this and reason he may of been got rid or ..as the same as Michael Jackson they bullied him till the end ..

            • Daisy

              Coltrane! My favourite! Stan Getz. Lennie Neihaus. Herbie Hancock. Thelonius Monk. Chet Baker. Brubeck…my hubby placed a NWT with Brubeck when he toured England as in a support quartet way back. They had long coach trips between gigs so he and Brubeck had many bible discussions.
              How about Anita O’Day in Jazz on a Summer’s Day… all those freckles!

            • Craig Knight

              Now we’re talkin! I played the tenor sax for over 10 years and played in a jazz band for a while. The band played mostly Neihaus stuff. It was a blast. I dig everyone you mentioned but need to check out Anita’s stuff. I lost half a lung back in 2008 so that ended my sax playing 🙁 That’s a great story about your husband talking to Brubeck. What instrument did your hubby play? I have spotify and I sit out on my back patio and have jazz on all the time. I have Astrud Gilberto, Bill Evans, Billy Holiday, Cannon Ball Adderly, Milt Jackson, Dave Grusin, David FatHead Newman, Dexter Gordon, Dizzy Gillespie, Herbie Hancock, James Moody, Coltrane, Davis Leonard Cohen, Thelonius and Toots Thielman to name a few 🙂 If I make it into the new system I’m really looking forward to mastering every instrument on earth. Won’t that be great?

              Uses of music . –In the private as well as in the religions life of the Hebrews music held a prominent place. The kings had their court musicians, (2 Chronicles 35:25; Ecclesiastes 2:8) and in the luxurious times of the later monarchy the effeminate gallants of Israel amused themselves with devising musical instruments while their nation was perishing (“as Nero fiddled while Rome was burning”). But music was also the legitimate expression of mirth and gladness The bridal processions as they passed through the streets were accompanied with music and song. (Jeremiah 7:34) The music of the banquets was accompanied with song and dancing. (Luke 15:26) The triumphal processions which celebrated victory were enlivened by minstrels and singers. (Exodus 15:1,20; Judges 5:1; 11:34) There were also religious songs. (Isaiah 30:29; James 5:13) Love songs are alluded to; in (Psalms 45:1) title, and Isai 5:1 There were also the doleful songs of the funeral procession, and the wailing chant of the mourners. The grape-gatherers sang at their work, and the women sang as they toiled at the mill, and on every occasion the land of the Hebrews during their national prosperity was a land of music and melody.

            • The Raven

              I played drums and harmonica. Thats a shame about your lung, man what happened if you don’t mind saying?. I wound up with nerve damage after a bad shock in the left hand when a new kid on our crew energized a circuit me and several others were working on. I can still use it even swinging a hammer but don’t have a lot of sensation in several fingers. I’d love to pick up the sticks again and i still drool over a nice kit…😁

            • into the light

              Drummer here as well 😁🥁

            • The Raven

              Hahaha! That’s cool, Bro or sis? 🙂

            • into the light

              A bro. 👨

            • Craig Knight

              If you played the harmonica you gotta love Toots Thielman’s stuff. If you were touching that circuit with both hands you probably wouldn’t be here with us today. I just started bleeding and the Dr’s couldn’t stop it. They said it was something I might have done as a kid that weakened a blood vessel in my left lung. I lived in Texas as a kid and the city used to spray the trees for bugs and whatnot. A group of us kids would chase these trucks down the street and play in the fog. Not too smart! Anyway I was in the hospital for a month. It was pretty ugly. I got the invasive surgery as opposed to non invasive. I have a scar that looks like Steven Segal attacked me with a sword. I’m glad to still be here. In the new system you can play the drums in my jazz band. Ha ha!

            • Daisy

              Raven will have to arm wrestle my hubby first! You’ll want a drummer who swings? My hubby “swings”. Gene Wright, bassist with Brubeck told him so. Hubby loved him for that. They were all really sweet men. Would you say Joe Morello was a swinging drummer.
              . I remember sitting so close to Paul Desmond’s sax I breathed his air whilst he played Angel Eyes.
              Hubby reminded me he placed the Daniel book with Brubeck too, we both can’t remember the name of it and the upshot of all the bible based chats was that Brubeck hadn’t made up his mind on religion.
              Hubby also witnessed to all three members of MJQ and of course many musicians he came into contact with on his gigs. He was a maverick as far as the congregation was concerned, doing his own thing in his own way long before incidental witnessing was acceptable.
              We googled Anita O’Day last night. She was pretty much as I remember, gorgeous, singing Tea for Two. I couldn’t actually say those words as quickly as she sings them, pitch perfect, in perfect tune and as for the skat, well..eat your heart out Ella!
              When hubby was in New York, another time, he went to the top of a skyscraper where Lee Konitz was playing…in his overcoat, it was so cold. Hubby witnessed to him but when he came to u.k years and years later, we went to see him in London where he had the whole audience Om- ing to quieten us down before he played so I guess he turned to eastern religion.
              Bill Evans is my absolute favourite. How a brain can make a piano sound like no other player can with such a light touch beats me and his rendition of “My Foolish Heart” always brings on tears. So powerful in its melodic gentleness. Years ago we went to see him playing in London, his back bent forward so that his nose almost touched the piano keys, eyes tightly closed, at one with his instrument. He didn’t get a witness so I don’t know why I’ve said that, just a memory.
              Thanks for all the biblical texts about the various occasions when music was used. I’m sure music would have played a big part at the wedding in Cana, when everybody was a little tipsy and maybe even Jesus joined in the hokey-kokey, perfectly of course. All the best Craig 🙂

            • The Raven

              Haha! A drummer too! I’d hand him my sticks in a heartbeat knowing he did that with those legends! No arm wrestling required! Ella was pretty good and Anita is divine but Sarah Vaughn gave scat something extra. All were consumate proffesionals! Those are some memories!

            • Craig Knight

              Wow what a great career your hubby had rubbing shoulder’s with all those great musician’s. I would have loved to play professional but I started playing too late so I missed the bus on that score. But I found music a way to lose myself almost a zen state. I think Robert plays the guitar. I’ve seen some nice guitars in one of his recent video’s. I just added Anita to my spotify albums. Thanks for telling me about her. She has a great voice. I’m listening to tea for two right now. I think incidental witnessing is the best way to talk about spiritual things. People are in a better mood and they aren’t getting disturbed by 9 am knocks on their door. It’s not so formal and people tend to be more relaxed and willing to discuss things which they might not normally want to do. I had a similar experience to your Paul Desmond story. I went to a jazz club in Santa Cruz called the Kuumbwa club and Phil Woods was playing real close to me. I was totally hypnotized when He played. I had to pick my jaw up off the table afterwards. So many great musicians have passed and I get excited that someday we might get to meet them in person. Thanks for sharing those great stories Daisy.

            • The Raven

              I’ve done a good bit of incidental witnessing since i never went door to door. You know… at construction sites waiting on line for the port a let, the roach coach, the pay checks and at breaks and lunch. Lol! Mainly with friends, neighbors and strangers who were stuck in a queue somewhere (captive audience). 😁

            • Craig Knight

              Well you are obeying Christs command to make disciples by planting seeds. God will make them sprout if the soil is good. We don’t forsake the gathering together because we gather often here. Going door to door doesn’t work so well in these times. Even sending letters works good for those who are house bound. We just need to be creative.

            • The Raven

              Wow! Sounds like you had a bad time of it, man. They spray down here all through the spring summer and fall. We all go inside. Its bad stuff but without it the skeeters would be a lot worse.

            • Craig Knight

              They still do that? Well don’t do what I did! Ha ha! I must be part cat = I’ve looked death in the face a few times. I think I have a few lives left tho.

            • The Raven

              Yep they have to. I’ve had some bad incidents but I consider myself fortunate to be alive. From some stupid things i did as a kid to the terrible accidents at work its a wonder any of the crews i was with are still kicking. No matter how careful we were there was always the unexpected and lightning. That will get your full attention in a nano second.

            • Craig Knight

              It’s amazing that we survive the stupid things we do when we are young. Did you ever see that movie Benjamin Button? That old man who was hit by lightening a bunch of times. That was pretty funny. I was in Florida as a kid visiting my cousins and one minute it would be sunny and nice and the next minute it would be raining and lightening would make us get out of the water and run for cover. I thought it was exciting as a dumb kid.

            • The Raven

              From a distance it’s beautiful, much like waterspouts out over the gulf but 50 feet from you…not so fun. I haven’t seen that film. But I’ve known others who were struck or close enough to be knocked down like we were and suffer extreme pain. That instance just before it happens is nerve wracking too. lol!

            • Craig Knight

              I always thought dc was safer than ac but lighting is direct current. So I guess I was wrong about that. We don’t get too much lightening here in California which is ok as far as I’m concerned.

            • You’re not wrong. It is a simple matter of voltage. A lightning bolt can pack a few million volts.

            • The Raven

              Generally, but either can kill you. Now lightning…that’s a whole’ nother thing. lol!

            • Craig Knight

              Get some huge capacitors and capture lightening bolts and energize a bunch of houses. This could make you a rich man if you could figure out how to capture lightning strikes. I’d say fly a kite or put up a big metal tower to attract the lightening. Here’s the math you need to figure this out.

              How much power does a single house consume? Again we have to play with averages. So let’s assume one house needs 2,000 Watts/hour to keep the frig, furnace, computer, and all things plugged in going. In one day, 24 hours, the house consumes Ph = 2,000 Watts x 24 hr. = 48,000 Wh So if we divide the power draw for the house into the power of a lightning bolt, we’ll have the number of houses that bolt can power: N = 2.7 x 106 Wh per bolt / 4.8 x 104 Wh/house = 0.5625 x 102 = 56 houses/bolt of lightning for one day. So the answer to the original question is that a big bolt could power a small, 56-house town for a day. That assumes we can catch all of that average bolt of lightning in a large capacitor. If you assume a capture efficiency, that would add a few more calculations. Still, the original question is intriguing. If you wish to take this math experiment a step further, consider how often the U.S. is struck with lightning each day. NOAA online says 22 million cloud-to-ground strikes per year.

            • Richard Long

              The work of Tesla was founded on drawing electromagnetic current FROM the earth. I know you know why this never came to fruition but if one were a secular humanist intent on salvaging the planet, one might line up behind the Thrive Movement, who’s associates are close to having Tesla tech available for individual home application. Won’t stop the parousia, of course, but an interesting study into what man could accomplish absent the malevolent influence of our adversary.

            • Craig Knight

              That’s pretty interesting Richard, Tesla was quite a fellow. Our brains are beyond amazing and it will be wonderful to remember everything we study because now I forget things so easily. There’s been a myth going around since I was a kid that we only use 10 percent of our brain. This video is pretty interesting.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZNi68xVDWU

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Craig, evidence points to the potential of the brain, rather than how much we use, though the chap discussing the issue on the clip you show is undoubtably correct. Perhaps a better analogy would be that we are firing on all four cylinders, but the engine is only 1000 cc. Occasionally we hear of savants that ‘see’ mathematics or can simply compute faster than others can enter the question into the computer. (But for the mathematically illiterate like me, that is true in all cases!) Yet also we have examples of people who have extraordinary insight (compared with the norm) into physics and space, – the elemental issues of creation….if they did but know it. The most alarming capabilities of the brain can be released by psychotropic drugs, ( obviously not recommended as they can be lethal ) but not in a manner we can, or should, have control over, yet the interesting observations of some of these reactions in the brain through such drugs, cannot be explained in relation to any science we have……in other words, issues and experieces that are not related to any human experience reviewed thus far. I don’t know about the experience of others, but I have always believed that our existence and experiences of life in this system are so very limited, compared even against the potentials we use now.

            • Richard Long

              Or perhaps an anecdotal quantification. I’ve heard it said that a machine to equal the capacity of the brain utilized by the average human would require a building the size of the the Empire State Building to house it and the daily runoff of the Mississippi River to cool it. Cannot testify to the precision of this comparison and that was in the early nineties, so maybe by now Steve Jobs and company might have it fitting in the box my refrigerator came in.

            • Burt Reynolds

              There seems to be something missing in the behaviour of people that has been gathering weight over the years. I understand the issues of looking back on life and concepts, but the recent mind-trends have a finality to them, in my opinion anyway. It seems best exemplified by Trumps attitude to war, along with that of the nations, but it is the fact that no one is objecting to this that is the worry. Instead, the news media normalises it as a solution and we accept it as such. It was only forty years ago that people in our country were marching about demonstrating that the Americans had nuclear bombs in our country. The attitude of live for the day and forget about the consequences prevails.

            • Craig Knight

              I like what you said about only being 1000 cc, that’s a great example. I’m not good with math either because I never figured pies being square made any sense! Ha ha ha! The human brain is so amazing and to think we could all be Mozart’s and geniuses in our own field of interest. I could dig having a picture perfect memory so I could learn to play music without forgetting it so fast. I almost went looking for some psychotropic drugs but then you said they were lethal so forget that idea. Have you seen that movie hidden Figures yet? Those ladies had the genius factor goin on. Great movie if you haven’t seen it. Yes we have no idea of the potential of the perfect brain. Without the burdens of this system and the devil’s influence it’s hard to imagine how grand life will be. Always a joy hearing from you 🙂

            • The Raven

              No, I do not wish to take this further! Hahaha! That’s an interesting idea but for the time being I’ll just stay out of electrical storms. Once was enough for me! Lol!

            • Craig Knight

              I was just being silly anyway! Lol!

            • The Raven
            • Craig Knight

              That was hilarious!!! Thanks for the yuks! Now it’s your turn.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOKxDsAnI8Y

            • The Raven

              Hahaha! Thanks, man! I’ve always loved them!

            • Craig Knight

              I have fond memories of the Three Stooges watching them every day after school. That Curly always had me busting up. They have full episodes on youtube so I watch them when I need to lighten up a bit!

            • The Raven

              So did I. And the dead end kids and the little rascals. My neice finds all kinds of funny stuff online. Her and my nephew have me gasping for air at times! 😂

            • Craig Knight

              I was watching the Little Rascals the other night. I’m just a big kid still living in an old body! Ha ha! That Alfalfa kid got shot attempting to steal something. You can look that up on youtube. Another sad Hollywood story.

            • The Raven

              He wasn’t trying to steal anything. Here’s more on what happened to him. It’s a very strange story.
              http://www.neatorama.com/2012/10/16/The-Strange-Death-of-Alfalfa/

            • Craig Knight

              That’s a great article on ol Alfalfa. He was a real trouble maker that kid. Most of these child actor’s grow up to have sad lives. I guess because they are treated so special then when they get older Hollywood drops them like a hot rock. Sort of like how WT drops you when you disagree.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Is this for real? I just never know with Americans!

            • The Raven

              Yes it is. It’s a compilation of his accidents. There are several of these videos. He’s actually a Canadian electrical engineer and he’s known for his sense of humor. He has over a million subscribers.

            • Burt Reynolds

              It was a great laugh. It’s a wonder the guy is still alive. I will have to subscribe.

            • The Raven

              He’s also a very good teacher. Many of his videos explain how electricity works in a very clear way and he demonstrates it in easy to follow directions. But he has become famous for the mishaps and he’s a klutz. Lol!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Alternatively, my first mother-in-law could power a house simply by harnessing her jaw to a generator. Non-stop talking morning noon and night, and even as we drove away I could still see her talking to us in the rear view mirror…..she was the basis for the Hitchcock horror film of the same name I have no doubt!

            • Craig Knight

              I thought all mother in laws did that! Ha ha ha! Edward G Robinson starred in the movie Soylent Green with Charleton Heston. There was a scene where Robinson was riding a bike in place in their apt to charge the lighting system. That’s a good movie if you haven’t seen it,

            • kakure Basho

              Tool is my favorite

        • Burt Reynolds

          It is a very difficult path to tread when considering the watchtower. When I left, the conflict of mind stayed with me for years and years. I was only able to resolve that conflict when I understood the role, the paradoxical role that the watchtower has to play. It is the only explanation that I found that was both scriptural and reasonable. I say reasonable because most demand fact, but we cannot have fact in this system. We can have qualititive evidence, we can have direction from the scriptures, but to both islands, one has to cross the bridge of faith. This is why many who ‘wake up’ from the watchtower, simply wake into yet another nightmare of faithless wandering and bitterness, unaware that the paradox of the watchtower is that it is, but is not, the house of Jehovah. They prefer not to make that consideration lest they appear fools in front of others. What better way to hide the lie and blind those who assume they have faith? It takes what many see as a simply incredulous leap of faith to believe that the watchtower teaches a necessary truth that qualifies it in prophesy, yet teaches the lie along with it, also to qualify itself in prophesy.

          Not only that, but it is seen as a cult by an overwhelming many, and it exasperates the common law of the land, and insults the conscience of all but the blind. It is to the paedophile a place of sex tourism as notorious as the Far East was ( and doubtless still is) a few years ago. And who but the crazy would realise this and yet still hang on to it as the temple of Jehovah? Do we delude ourselves, or can we in this time, actually see truth through such a dark mirror ? The Bible says yes, by showing us through the solid stone walls of the temple, what is going on inside the most holy. It shows the need to get out of her, at the right time, and yet few ask the critical reason why they should get out of the house of Jehovah. Why would we need to get out of Jehovahs house? The answer is of course, so as not to share in her destruction. But so many see it that Jehovah is not, and was not, ever there.

          It is sad to see people leaving the watchtower laden with righteous indignation and march off with their protests, megaphones and placards, only to find that after the flames of indignation have died, nobody cares; they just find themselves in a barren desert and they all drift off in circles, looking for a way out. The blind leaving the blind!

          I think it fine that the greatest test of faith and love that we should have for Jehovah and his son Jesus, is the one that beggars belief in the faith and love we should have for Jehovah and his son Jesus. It seems we cannot have one without the other. Hence the paradox of the watchtower, the lie that Jehovah has allowed.

          • Michael J Hewitt

            Thanks. This site more than heals. It renews excitement one felt when first witnessing the truth. Thanks Burt and others.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I have never thought of being a witness as exciting but now you mention it, it’s true what you say. The excitement for me comes in renewed faith that is based on bible truth, raw from the pages. There is no pompous middle man from the governing body, no control, no guilt other than that which is rightly deserved….just the raw word from Jehovah….here I am, read it, know me….meet your creator. Not only does it give purpose to life, but hope along with it.

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Burt, I was getting worried about you, you went missing for a few days. I understand you had technical difficulties lol

              It also reminds us of our imperfections.Jesus said be perfect Matt 5:48, gosh how many of use fail miserably on that score. All is not lost though as Jehovah provided the way out through his son Jesus. The bible tells us Jehovah loves us. As they say actions speak louder than words.

            • Craig Knight

              Michael welcome! My faith was restored here so I hear you!

            • Michael J Hewitt

              Thanks….Craig

            • Jamie Mac

              Hi Michael, I hope there are more like you out there who have found this site and have yet to comment. If they are seeking the truth then sooner or later they just have to comment. I’m glad you did. Welcome 🙂

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Jamie, i was not writing for a couple of days, I have had some serious iPad trouble that scrambled Roberts site, took out my safari, Facebook and messenger, right in the middle of a discussion with Daisy! Not being computer literate as you know, I had to resort to my dear wife’s phone and iPad. I was on the point of wiping my entire iPad and I have to say I actually prayed to the father for my iPad back. I’m not one to be flippant about prayer, or to presume on the almighty that he should take note of my needs, as a football player ‘crosses’ himself and kisses the earth before a game as if Jehovah should care about a damnable football match, but the next morning, Roberts site was back. I’m not joking, but what should one think about that?

            • Daisy

              Did your iPad have a little rest Burt.
              I wondered where you’d gone during our discussion and I did send out an s.o.s…where are you Burt? What’s happened Burt? Are you ok Burt? Thought you’d been taken ill I did
              Glad it’s all sorted and yours back in the saddle.

          • into the light

            That is so true. And I find it hard to reconcile the two opposing facts. Initially the concept is too hard to grasp but once you do, it becomes even harder because now you have to act accordingly. I read this interesting observation the other day. It makes sense but opens up so many other questions.

            If a faithful Israelite wanted to worship Jehovah during one of the many times when the priests were promoting idolatry and Baal worship, he couldn’t go outside Jehovah’s organization, could he? He couldn’t go to Egypt or Syria or Babylon, and worship God as they did. He had to stay within God’s organizational arrangement, worshiping in the way outlined by Moses in the law.

            And then there is Elijah who thought he was alone but Jehovah told him there were 7000 other men who didn’t bend their knee to Baal. Yet Jehovah didn’t discard Israel and choose those 7000 to be his new people.

            • sally

              Yes, I make no claim to knowing the bible back to front, I wish I did but I am pretty sure that the nation of Israel did not become divided and the righteous amongst them flee due to all the detestable things they saw did they?

            • into the light

              They relied on Jehovah. And they witnessed directly the blessing that he gives when his people listen to him. Which is not to say that their situation was easy. But faith had helped them to overcome.

          • sally

            Burt. This post is so elequently put. I wish it was my post because your thoughts are like mine when mulling it all over but I could not get into words and put down here like you have so thank you.

            • into the light

              Proverbs 16:23,24 comes to mind. 😊

            • Burt Reynolds

              Thank you Sally. However, you are a doer, I’m a talker. As the bible says, the reading of many words/books is wearisome to the flesh and I have no doubt that I make many weary. I don’t mean it as false modesty but frankly, I would rather be in your position than mine; going to the meetings, and facing it down. I do hope though for something constructive to do at some point.

            • sally

              Well you could always show up at a hall that isn’t so local – so you don’t have to deal with those you haven’t seen for so long? If that isn’t possible, then I am sure Jehovah will find a constructive role for you when needed. In anycase your posts are constructive here so I wouldn’t stress about it to much.

            • Michael J Hewitt

              Your thoughts are most constructive. You’ve helped me Burt. I have silently listened to your comments over the last 18 months of my awakening. Who knows how many others you have helped.

            • The Raven

              You do not make me weary ever. I read your comments not once, twice but several times to make sure I catch every glimmer of insight and wisdom. Then i think on it.

    • Isaac of Coimbatore

      See Freemasons also use the name Jehovah. So simply putting the name of Jehovah superimposed on illumanti symbol does’ nt mean it is Right. Satan do this so that people should not fell bad about illuminati symbol if name of Jehovah appears on their symbols. Remember the bible says Satan turns himself into an angel of light. That means he can act as if Jesus himself.

      • The Raven

        True. It’s all become conflated and obscured to the point that most people can’t or won’t bother with it. That’s also part of the devil’s workings. But once they see what’s going on they begin to make those connections .

      • into the light

        Well, Satan has implanted his agent even into the twelve. We shouldn’t underestimate his power to deceive. After all he was able to mislead even the angels (Revelation 12:3,4).

  • Sorry. Ignore.

    • Burt Reynolds

      Hello student. Long time no see. How is it all going?

      • Hi Burt. Well, I have been doing a lot of study and research into my current religion, i.e., Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the more I see the more convinced I am that it is not the truth. For one, I watched the entire 2015 and 2017 Australian Royal Commission videos, and i was absolutely disgusted by how the victims were treated by the organisation, and how blatantly deceptive the elders/overseers, etc, were when asked questions by the Commission. They also out and out lied. Even Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson lied when asked if the organisation was God’s only spokesperson, he said, “That I think would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using”. That is not what we are taught in our publications. Another thing that “stumbled” me was the 2017 convention where there was such a homophobic attitude shown, and how the 1975 debacle was, if you’d believe the convention video, actually some wrong information spread by “some brothers” somewhere. We all know that it was the GB telling JWs that the end would come in 1975. To be honest, the child abuse scandal alone makes me ashamed to be a JW. I haven’t been to the last 4 meetings. Not sure if i will go again.

        • Now maybe you develop a greater appreciation for what e-watchman is all about. Christ does not come to punish and destroy the organization because it is righteous. Why would he?

          • sally

            Yes but its up to him to punish and destroy it not us surely?

            • The Raven

              Hi Sally! That’s correct. I know most folks who understand this matter also know It does not belong to us to mete out judgement. I haven’t seen anything from Robert to suggest that. In fact he has recommended that jws remain where they are even though they know what’s happening. He has for years exposed what’s been going on and calling them out for these things. And rightly so.
              Good to see you! 🙂

            • sally

              Hi Raven! Its very difficult to work out what is for the best. My understanding is that the prophets have always warned what is to come but as you say not to mete out judgement. That is very very hard to stop oneself from doing I have to say. But we have to try hard to stop ourselves in any case whatever the exposures of lies, hypocracy and arrogance we enounter, which let’s face it is epidemic right now. I just really worry that Robert may not be doing the right thing right now. I don’t know, at the same time if I was a JW in Denmark that went to that thing for my convention each year I would like to think that some brothers and sisters in the world that found out would alert me to it. Then I would take care never to step foot over the threshold of it ever again.

            • The Raven

              As you said, the prophets have always warned God’s people in the past and so have others when they saw bad things. Robert isnt the only one doing this at present but he has not become an enemy of the house as others have. He has been careful and straightforward about who is responsible. The situation with the Danish site is just another example of an evil influence among the leadership of the wto. This, imo is clear evidence of the man of lawlessness. The other astonishing fact about this is hundreds of witnesses who worked from those prints never said anything as far as we know. That appears to confirm the delusion they share. More and more it looks like the org will do anything to protect its interests or hide its bad dealings and decisions at the expense of the sheep they claim to feed and care for. That too is a prophetic example of their wrongdoing. Are there some among the slaves who are not evil? Yes there are and we know this from what Christ said. All is not lost. But defending those who have done evil simply because they sit in God’s house is just as wrong as attacking everyone who is there. Robert has been specific about this. Some of us have tried to be as well. I know how dangerous this is and those who by some divine guidance have had their eyes opened now also need to search their hearts to make sure they haven’t gone a step too far in these matters. Exposing bad things is the correct course. Judging and beating are not.

          • Beverly kenyon

            So, I’m looking at this post and am a bit puzzled at your words.

            So is what you’re saying, is the organisation/WT righteous, therefore, Christ will not destroy it, or is it righteous on Christ’ part to destroy the org?!

            This very same organisation that has presided over a massive child abuse scandal laid bare in the world’s courts and you, yourself comparing the whole disgusting, sordid mess to the child sacrifices of Manasseh in some of your various articles…….’Watchtower Child Sacrifice Soon to End. June 2016′. ‘A Conspiracy of Silence. May 2007’. ‘O Nation that feels no Shame’. February 2017. ‘You will Have to Know I am Jehovah. March 2013’. All those articles you compared their shameful lack of Safe Guarding to child sacrifice! The organisation righteous??!!

            Also, the thing noticed is, the Wild Beast that religion rides upon is the one that completely burns religion with fire! Christ does not destroy any religion. Satan turns upon his artifice/agent that he has used so successfully!

            • The WT org is not the ark of salvation or the city on the hill. Christ’s Kingdom will exist apart from the visible organization. Individuals will be required to make the transition when the time comes.

        • sally

          Hi JW Student, Its nice to see you posting I read all your previous posts when you were on before. I am a “student” as well, well not really I stopped the study, and took a step back when I started to have my eyes opened to what was going on. But I still go to sunday meetings on my terms and its hard but it works. We are in a precarious position and its difficult to know what to do. I hear everything you say and agree completely, how can you feel anything but shame? But the Israilites were Gods people even though there was badness going on big time within, so as far as I am concerned until it becomes absolutely 100% clear not to go I am going to keep going as much as I can, Baptism can wait. They can’t have a tight grip on you if you are not going down the organisations baptism path.

          • Craig Knight

            That’s smart Sally because they baptize you to Jehovah, Christ and all the GB quirky teachings which they actually call unique which is another word for way out there! 🙂

            • sally

              Yes it is smart Craig, cos if your not baptised…..you can’t get disfellowshipped either! I was angry when i learned the real truth and felt bitter but you can always find a positive out of a negative and that is one big positive!

        • Thinking

          Aaah Jw Student…you are hurting ..and it’s okay to be stumbled…you are now groaning over the things dome in his house …as Ezekiel 9 describes…that’s you brother….and if you were not shattered then something would be wrong with you…it’s a painful insight to gain…but that’s what it is..JW student….insight…he’s given it to you to prepare you for the fire ahead…
          It’s very very hard to be awake to this situation…you go thru a mourning grieving period…some don’t recover…some do..but they are not the same…but you know..it really is a refining work even now going on…it’s sort,of working thru who perhaps served a org and who ..can see Jehovah is still there and in control of all that is happening…allowing it…sifting and threshing us…it’s a torture stake for sure JW Student…but its doable….just ride the wave and educate yourself as you are…and the only hint I can give you is to look at the pattern of his people….how they ALWAYS became corrupted…and how he ALWAYS disciplined them…in his time…but I personally find it amazing how far he lets them go down the rabbit hole before he does something….don’t give up…and I hope you have some one close by you can talk with face to face over this…

          • Aaah Thinking … no I am not hurting … You seem to be under the impression … that I am like a delicate china doll … or a two dollar suitcase … that smashes at the first drop … or falls apart after the first use … Well, I am not. I havent given to laying awake at night … drenching my pillow with tears … I’m not frantically trying to find a therapist to be able to function … all that’s happened is that, just as various people warned me before i started studying with the Jehovah’s ‘Witnesses … I have come to realise that the JWs are not the truth… All that happens now is that I stop going to meetings … and just fade away … my relationship with God is just as strong as it was before … I am just moving on with my life now… One chapter has ended … another has started… that’s it…no theatrics…no book writing…no TV appearnces telling my story…the only thing…I have learned…is that I need to read the Bible more…to find the truth…and not rely on an organisation…church…or person…to tell me…what…the…truth…is.

            • Thinking

              Okay. And of course all the best to ya😀

            • Daisy

              Seems like you’ve come full circle!
              As you say, ‘one chapter has ended…another has started’.
              Or, could that be, one door has closed, another has opened.
              Jesus is that door (John 10:7) “Then Jesus said to them again, truly, truly, I say to you; I am the door of the sheep”
              Obviously Christ’s followers did not understand what he was saying , he was repeating himself, so he continued speaking truth whether his followers believed him or not. And he meant, It is through him and only him, that believers would find peace, joy and comfort …that he was the (narrow) door into eternal life. For there is no coming to Jehovah but by, and through him because Jesus said, “I am the way the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father BUT FOR ME” (John 14:6) Only he is the truth itself, in opposition to all the false ways of man’s devising and unacceptable errors…errors cost lives. He is the giver of life, our natural lives and our spiritual lives in opposition to the law. He is our Mediator and our ONLY Mediator between Jehovah and man.
              That is because (John 10:27) “My sheep hear my voice and THEY FOLLOW ME” his Good News is about HIM. And those that hear his voice HE KNOWS as since the Jews turned their backs on him, it’s obvious they were not his sheep.
              Only by reading the bible for ourselves will we recognise his voice Student! That’s where I started…in the book of John. What an eye opener! denied me for all my life for believing in an organisation not knowing its pagan roots.
              I’m moving soon to another State you would call it and I’m planning on finding a non affiliated loving bible group who meet purely to read and discuss God’s word together with no hierarchical interference ( it’s MY life… what’s left of it) no silly titles, just good honest lovers of truth. I’ve already googled many in the area I’m moving to, and they’re out there, groups who don’t accept the trinity, hellfire and immortality, groups who know the name of God.
              And if I’m unhappy about anything at all I might start my own home church as I hear that that’s the way to go. Back to the original idea as in the early first century.
              So…I’ll be thinking of you Student with all the love in my heart.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Hello JW Student
              You are right…do not put your faith in any human ore any organisation..
              And yes…read directly from your Bible and ask Jehovah for guideance.
              You will find the way…the truth…and the life..
              (Exodus18:20….psalm 119:142….Duteronomy 32:47…compare those with John 14:6..then you`ll know where and who to follow)

        • Burt Reynolds

          Yes Student, (I wish I had a more personal name to address you by) you are absolutely correct in what you feel, and you mirror the feelings of what could well be over a million ex JWs that patrol the sites dedicated to bringing down the watchtower….and doing quite well it seems, though they will not succeed. You do not want a part of that. That privilege belongs to Jehovah. However, what you have seen does not make your feelings wrong, it makes them right as Thinking says below….and nobody argues with Thinking!!!!!!!!!……

          What you are looking at Student, is the symptoms, not the causal root of the problem. Everyone rushes to denounce the symptoms, and that in itself, though commendable, is actually part of the lie (my assumption) because while they are taking the mote out of the watchtower’s eye (of Horace as we see now), they are missing the beam that Jehovah sees in its eye. And that is not only the reflection of all that Jehovah is, but also what He represents, the very essence of his being and intentions if you like. The watchtower assume His voice and wishes, disregard his son, and treat the flock roughly.

          If you can appreciate that what the watchtower is and does, is part of prophesy, then you can begin to look beyond (not excuse) what they do, to the prophesy that they fulfil. Then you will will begin to see the hand of Jehovah in it and the moreso as you look around you at the gathering storm (to quote Churchill) of world events. The two are burgeoning together. And if Jehovah’s hand is in it, then that is what we need to be paying attention to.

          Figuratively speaking, you, we all, stand in front of a dam holding back the weight of the world’s sins against Jehovah. You are aware of the cracks in it, and aware of how well hidden those cracks are, as everyone else is saying ‘what a strong dam it is…unassailable.’ However, if you can see the cracks, the best place to stand is not in front of it, but BESIDE it. It is not for you or us to hold it back with our protest at its flaws, but to stand aside and see the hand of Jehovah tear it down. To seek a place of safety whilst it still may be found, is to physically and prayerfully, come to understand the purpose of why these things are, why they must be, and the reason it has to be this way. Though we do not rejoice in the wrongdoing, or the demise of others, the more prominent the sins of the watchtower become, the more we may rejoice in the outworking of Jehovah’s purpose. But to appreciate that, we need to understand his truth. Find it here on this site, in the debate that rages for truth.

          As to attending meetings, that is for you to contemplate prayerfully, as we all must, but the bible says to you and us all, to make sure of all things (so that we can act prudently before Jehovah). To do that, you need to settle your conscience and thus learning , insight, and certainly in things hoped for, though not yet seen, so that you can feel at ease with whatever you decide to do. Jehovah loves a person who gives (worship) freely. There are plenty of comments on that score and you would do well to consider the commendable path that Sally has chosen. But you have to own it as we all must. You can already see that following the crowd is not part of it. You, like us, need to follow Jehovah’s lead through his son Jesus. There is a scripture that says that Jehovah’s Angels will direct your footsteps. So pray for that to be the case! I might add from my own thoughts, that you are not being stumbled, you are being woken up, because you can see the stumbling blocks, but are seeking to avoid them, not excuse them as the marjority of witnesses are so doing at this time. If you can see the blocks and not be stumbled, that is not only a positive gift, but that there is a reason for it. Well, perhaps you are being invited to develop that reason? The cause, not the symptom!

          • Hi Burt. I have no desire or wish to bring the WT down. Many JWs are happy in the organisation, despite a lot of the propaganda we see. Yes, there are those who are unhappy and feel trapped, but if somebody, an adult, is happy in that religion, then who am I, or anybody, to demand they leave. I do actually enjoy the Sunday meetings, though I am always glad when we get to the final song/prayer. The mid-week meetings are a bit more of a slog to get through, but sometimes even those meetings seem to go quick. A lot of the people in my congregation are genuinely nice people who are genuinely happy. Yes, the love-bombing can be a bit claustrophobic at times, and I don’t believe in loving the members as my family just because 7 men in New York tell me I have to. But on the whole they are some real nice approachable people there, especially one elder in particular. A big of a test will be occuring in the next week. I’m getting the front part of my hair dyed green. It’s something I’ve always wanted and so have decided I’m going to get it down. I wonder what they’ll see when I walk into the KH next Sunday. I’m not doing it to cause proplems, I’m doing it as an expression of my individuality and, of course, it’s my right to have whatever colour hair I want. It’ll be interesting as their are sisters in my congregation who have dyed their hair, though not green. But there is a sister with dark red highlights/lowlights in her hair. I probably will attend meetings on a non-regular basis. But as for the field ministry and monthly reports, I’ve finished with them. I’ll stop commenting in the meetings too, unless there. Is something I desperately want to say.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Green hair! We all have to go through a green hair stage. It will be frowned on, you know that, but it is a good way to bring out the true feelings of people which may help you a lot to make up your mind. Why green? I think I would like to have royal blue hair or ruby red, but I just have to make do with silver, and not a enough of it to warrant a whole bottle of colourant. Do let us know how it turns out.

            • Green is my favourite colour. On Saturday 14th we have our regional assembly. I wonder if they will allow me on the coach with my green fringe.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Can’t wait to hear about it. Make sure you get back to the coach in good time at close of day, otherwise you might find they go without you.

            • Hi Burt. So I got it done yesterday, the green hair that is, at a salon near me. Took two hours to do. TWO HOURS!!!! So now the front part of my hair is now green. I went to visit a friend today who is a Witness, about 50 years old, and was born into the religion. He was polite, but obviously didn’t like it. He told me the elders will probably speak to me about it. I pointed out to him that there’s nothing in the Bible that says I can’t colour the fringe of my hair, to which he agreed. I then went into town to do a bit of shopping, and saw the literature cart. There was a shift change going on, two sisters being relieved by another sister and a brother. I went over to say hi and they were astonished at my hair, but didn’t say too much. Then another sister turned up, the wife of an elder from my KH. In fact I think he’s the longest serving elder at our KH. The wife clearly didn’t like it judging by her double-take, but again she was polite enough not to mention anything. However, I can guarantee you that when she got home she informed her husband about my hair. It’s going to be interesting if anything gets said to me on Sunday. I am curious also if I’ll get told I can’t go to the district assembly next Saturday. I also wonder if the invitations from various brothers and sisters to accompany them on the field service will cease. I just wanted to state that I haven’t coloured my hair because I want to deliberately shock those at the KH. I’m doing it as an expression of my individuality. Though I don’t believe that JWs are “the truth”, nor that the GB is God’s sole representatives on earth (something that Geoffrey Jackson himself also admitted at the ARC), and I don’t believe in the 1914/1919 doctrines. Yet I still do enjoy attending the meetings and assemblies, etc, and I do enjoy speaking to the brothers and sisters at the KH. One thing my friend said to me when we discussed my green hair was … “well, you’re not baptised.” I’m wondering what he meant when he said that. I’m guessing it means that I can’t be punished for my hair colour.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I think you will get a good education in group psychology and discrimination. Take the opportunity to compare it with the bible and see if you can find the balance, the first law of which is to see yourself as others see you. But even then, we are all different people behind closed doors, so finding that balance is often difficult. I’ll be interested to see how you fare and what you gain from it. An interesting social experiment! In a way, you are manipulating THEIR behaviour, which will be interesting to say the least. It reminds me of when I manipulated control of the whole team I worked with by putting a notice on the meeting table to only sit at the right hand end, and which they dutifully did. When I came in I threw the notice in the bin and sat there, and they all stayed put, waiting for something to happen. If you think about it, the same principles apply with the governing body and 1914 and the extended generation. You were right about not being baptised putting you beyond sanctions. All they will do is deny you any ‘privileges’ as an unbaptised witness. But would you want a ‘privilege’ from them!?

            • Brilliant! Green hair should make for excellent camouflage if you ever need to hideout in the shrubbery( ;~)

            • Richard Long

              Or to hide in plain sight in the money tree orchard at Warwick? Alex Jones style infiltration?

            • Richard Long

              The public meetings are just that, Student. Assemblies too

            • Hi Burt. So I turned up at the KH with my green fringe. It drew a few looks and whispers, so it did. One of the kids come up to me, a ten-year-old boy who normally says hi to me, and asked me about it. All of the elders I spoke to didn’t say a word. In fact nobody took me to one side or asked me what I thought I was doing. A sister asked me “what happened?” Then she said that she’d go and beat up the person who did it for me >.<

              The fact that none of the elders who I spoke to said anything, not even hinted about it, surprised me. However, I’m fully expecting a home “shepherding call” this week.

            • The Raven

              Hi JW, I’ve been keeping up with the latest episodes of your dealings with the Jws and I must say so far this one’s the best! I would have loved to have been there with you. So would my young niece. She dyed her hair a lovely shade of plum ( I call it purple) which fades beautifully into her dark brown hair. Most folks like it. Her father was kinda, “eh”.
              I can only imagine what they’re thinking about this now. lol! I am also surprised they didn’t say anything about it. They probably think you’re doing this to get a reaction from them anyway and kept quiet. You may in fact get a visit. I’m curious to know what they say.
              Take care JW and I hope everything works out for you!

            • KB

              That’s pretty much protocol. They know they don’t have the right to voice their opinion about it. They just want you to come around to their point of view, by seeing the example of others ( no green fringe). The elders will remain silent, yet the publishers know the rules but don’t have the insight to remain silent about it. The publishers may treat you unkind but the elders more than likely will try to put on a smiley face. Just my thoughts and opinion on it, I could be 100% wrong, time will tell.

            • Burt Reynolds

              If they turn up unannounced I would tell them that’s it’s not convenient to speak right now. You’ll have to repeat it at least three times before they take notice. Then arrange another date with them…..(then dye it back to normal colour before they come!) It will be interesting to see what scriptures they use. Green hair is up there with the major theological issues, so expect a roasting. In real terms though it’s just a control issue. You have stepped out of line and expressed an individual choice that is outside of their control. Were you out on the ministry with green hair, you may well attract younger people, but compromise is never a good thing to gain a brother. What is a good way to gain a brother is to, as Paul said, be all things to all men. I’ll leave you to find out what that means.

            • Hi Burt. I am not going to dye it back for them. They either accept me for who I am or I go to a church that does not judge people on appearance. I assume they’d turn up unannounced. The elder who was my study instructor does it often, which does annoy me. I’m not into this “forced love”, i.e., “we are your family now and you MUST love us more than your worldly family”, as the expectation seems to be. Once, this elder knocked on my door for an announced visit but I was out at the time. Because he didn’t get an answer from me he stood on my doorstep and text me. When he got no reply he phoned me, still whilst standing on my doorstep. That annoyed me. Once he turned up just as I was walking out of the door to visit a friend (who is not a JW). I simply told him I couldn’t stop and I’d see him at the next meeting. I’m not interested in socialising with members of the congregation, I’d rather socialise with my worldly friends. I go to the meetings each week simply because I enjoy them and want to worship God, I don’t go there to find friends or be “adopted” by them. If a couple of elders turn up at my door for a shepherding call then I’ll let them in as I am interested in what they will say, and what scriptural references they can show me that says God will judge me because of my hair colour. They may be shocked at my hair colour, but imagine how shocked they would be if I told them that I actually don’t believe that the GB are spirit-lead, that I don’t believe in 1914/1919 and that I have no intention of getting baptised due to my not being happy with the baptismal vows, i.e., inserting the name of the organisation into said vows. Unless, of course my particular copy of the Bible (“the Silver Sword”) has a misprint in it where it currently says that Jesus instructed us to be baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Perhaps he actually said to be baptised into God’s spirit led organisation on earth. There is one elder who occasionally asks me whether I have decided to take the step to baptism. The next time he asks me that I will tell him that I have no intention of getting baptised, at least not a JW baptism.

            • KK, went to the regional assembly yesterday with my green fringe. So far I have had nothing from my congregation elders; no back room chats, no home shepherding calls. Nobody said anything negative at the assembly yesterday, though I got a few double takes. Especially when it was evident that people initially thought I was just an interested member of the public (lots of love bombing). But when I introduced myself as an unbaptised publisher some were obviously thinking to themselves, “WTF!” >.<

              One thing that I don’t like that happened yesterday was some felt that it was alright to caress my shoulder and back when being introduced to me. I was talking to a witness who was, like me, an ex-military policeman, and he introduced me to an elderly witness. This witness shook my hand and then put his hand on my shoulder and started rubbing his hand all over my shoulder and shoulder blade. Then not five minutes later I get introduced to another elderly witness who did the same! I’ve had this happen to me in my own congregation by an elderly elder. Is this something they teach at elder school? Made me feel very uncomfortable. I hope they don’t do the same to kids. I wouldn’t be happy if an elder did that to my son.

              The ex-MP witness said to me yesterday, “I knew you must be the guy I was looking for as there can’t be two witnesses with green hair”. This guy had been at a meeting yesterday, which I think was a meeting of elders in the region. Apparently my green hair was mentioned at that meeting. Not sure if the CO was there.

              Four people got baptised yesterday. Three adult women, and a boy of about 14 or 15. I found myself feeling sorry for him. Does he know how much extra pressure baptism as a JW brings him? He’s no liable for disfellowshipping and possible family estrangement if ever he decides this isn’t the truth. I don’t mean to be insulting to teenage boys, but at 14/15 a boy is still developing his personality, beliefs, desires etc. Not many of us adults are the same person as we were when we were young teenagers. A boy that age shouldn’t be held to account for decisions he makes as a child into his adult years, where baptism and the possible outcomes of discipline hang over him. 🙁

            • ha, i got to the love bombing part then thought yeah but tell em your already been devoted to Jehovah for quite a while and then watch em be two-faced. i know what you mean about the
              weird touching thing too. not old enough to marry to a women but if he tells the truth being dedacated to Jehovah, Jehovah will stay loyal to him umlike the congregation

            • Well, it’s been three weeks now and I haven’t attended a single meeting at the KH. I have been bombarded with phone calls and text messages from the JWs (all of which I ignore). No home visits yet though. I did see one of the brothers from my KH, and I told him I wasn’t coming back due to doctrinal issues, but also due to the WT disgusting way of treating child sex abuse as if it were a minor misdemeanour. I told him that I did not think that the GB are spirit lead or that they are God’s sole organisation on earth. When I mentioned the 1975 debacle, the brother told me that the WT didn’t teach that the end was coming in 1975. According to him “there were some that read into things that were not said, and it was these ‘some brothers’ who jumped to conclusions.” Wow!

            • they “jumped to conclusions” because the Watchtower suggested several times in its own publacations and it was strongly implied at assemblies – “Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth is completed. Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those that are destroyed then.” Kingdom Ministry 1968 Mar p.4

              there are several, several instances the Watchtower promoted the idea not just as some passive thought that WAS “read into” by brothers & sisters for the fact it was published “into” the material for them to “read”. the ideas did NOT come about on their own but from very ideas that the Watchtower “said”.

              they “read into things that” WERE “said”. to say otherwise is being dishonest.

              if i were you i would have told him that is not true and he needs to get his facts stright so he doesnt look foolish. and reasons like that, him not teaching the truth accurately, is the reason people refused to participate anymore at meetings

            • So, over the past week I have, again, been bombarded with phone calls and text messages from the brothers at the KH. Some of them have said that they will come visit me. Note; not may we visit you? But we will come and see you for an encouragement visit. Up until now I have ignored these calls and messages. However, today I just replied to one saying that I will not be coming back to the KH as I no longer believe it to be the Truth. I also declined their request to visit me, saying that I do not feel it necessary. Now I await the bombardment of calls and texts to rise exponentially. If they turn up at my house unannounced I will simply tell them, sorry it’s not a convenient time right now.

            • Some JW’s who fade away complain that no one comes to visit them. You are complaining because they are. How about I ban you from commenting here, seeing that you want nothing to do with JW’s?

            • Ban me for making a comment that I am leaving the JWs? I thought this forum was to provide support for ex-members of the WTBTS, and indeed for those who are still in yet struggling with their position/beliefs. Am I to deduce from your reply that you are in fact a supporter of WTBTS and don’t like people making negative comments against it? Sure, ban me if it gives you a buzz and makes you feel like you can control the thoughts and opinions of another person.

            • Truth

              Instead of ostracising JW Student wouldn’t it be more Christian to offer scriptural advice, as you seem to view ones like JW as spiritually weak and stumbled by men, when the reality is most want to get away from the lies and complete lack of understanding of the scriptures.

            • Island Breeze

              Get over yourself, they are just worried about your well-being. Tell them not to bother you, they will respect your wishes. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/12a616aa25dea43a0f9e6be652207e6edf4f8de1ca26a1307685591830bfe044.gif

            • Hi. I hope they will respect my wishes. I have heard from many other ex-JWs that they badger those who fade out. I would like a peaceful life. 🙂

            • Island Breeze

              They will. Come in peace and leave in peace.
              Most ex -Jws have a chip on their shoulder, nobody is going to badger you .
              Don’t give up on reading your bible!

            • Definitely won’t give up on reading my Bible. In fact, I have started to read the NKJV, starting from the NT. I want to see if Jesus, or Paul, actually taught that you have to belong to a particular organisation in order to be saved. Not found it so far.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hey JW Student, at least your yes means yes and your no means no and a person like that you know where you stand. Firm but fair. And that’s great you’re using that translation of the Bible as its a good one. I use my Voice and NLT which are fantastic and started all over again with reading the book of John and Acts and onwards with some of Revelation and I also ask for the Helper, the HS to help me with knowledge, wisdom & discernment and now, it’s like I read the Bible in full HD, everything is so much clearer and simpler as the Bible is to be understood by the reader with a sincere heart. I’m everywhere seeking bible knowledge and listening to others which in turn strengthens faith in God and the King, Rabbi, Jesus Christ.

              ‘Our fathers worshipped here on this mountain, but Your people say that Jerusalem is the only place for all to worship. Which is it?

              Woman, I tell you that neither is so. Believe this: a new day is coming-in fact, it’s already here-when the importance will not be placed on the time and place of worship but on the truthful HEARTS of worshippers. You worship what you don’t know while we worship what we do know for God’s salvation is coming through the Jews. The Father is spirit, and he is seeking followers whose worship is sourced in TRUTH and deeply spiritual as well. Regardless of whether you are in Jerusalem or on this mountain, if you do not seek the Father then you do not worship. (Emphasis mine). John 4:20-24. The Voice NT.

              ‘Rather you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ’. 2Peter3:18. The Voice NT.

              ‘But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives WITHIN you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true, not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with the Christ’. (Emphasis mine). 1John2:27. NLT.

              ‘The Kingdom of God is not a realm of grandiose talk, it is a realm of POWER’. (Emphasis mine). 1Corinthians4:20. The Voice NT.

              ‘If you want to do God’s work, then believe in the One he sent’. John6:29. The Voice NT.

            • Hi Beverley.

              “Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but Your people say that Jerusalem is the only place for worship. Which is it?”

              Wow, that is actually a brilliant answer to my question of where do we worship. The thing I love about the Bible is that no matter how many times you read it, and no matter how well you think you know it, there’s always some new revelation that God talks to us through it. Thank you so much for highlighting that passage to me. 🙂

            • Beverly kenyon

              That’s no problem JW Student. I’ve always thought you had a sharp mind and you ask fantastic questions. Is that your Navy training? Lol. Well, Brittania did rule the waves and if I remember right, RK did write an article regarding Tyre and Brittania ruling the waves, the similarities and how it’s written in scripture but the main thing is, will we remember such things, all that knowledge, will it save us from the wrath of the Lamb? Rev6:16.

              Maybe JW Student, and this is just my opinion, maybe, you should’ve just stayed where you were as you stated in your history you were from a Christian background and maybe that’s where you were called. 1Cor7:18-20. Nigel, who post’ on this blog covered that point beautifully 12 days ago to someone on this blog, the point on being called to wherever you are fellowshipping with other Christians and maybe that’s where you should stay if you can hack it or unless the spirit leads you out of that situation. On a personal level, I feel as the Christian I am, ALL Christians are my brothers and sisters and if I’m honest ALL humans are my family, because the Christ is coming to judge the WHOLE WORLD so I feel as a Christian, for now at least, I can step foot in any ecclesia, church, place of worship, preferably Christian for fellowship as I feel and know that ALL of them have been over reached, infiltrated by the Wicked One, some more obvious than others, and isn’t the WHOLE WORLD lying in the power of the Wicked One so no one is immune from his insidious influence.

              I’m fortunate JW Student in that I have fantastic Christian support from the most honest truth loving, brilliant minds, sensitive, humourous, non judgemental, lovers of the Father and of his Son, our Redeemer, balanced, still in control of their God given precious free will, they don’t idolise MEN, I’m so blessed to call them my FRIENDS. And can I just say, on that point of ‘friends’ why on earth would the Father who EVERYTHING belongs to and who made EVERTHING need sinful people as his friends??!! How insulting is that?? Some of those so called, ‘friends’ are disloyal, don’t even love him, ignore his Son, idolise men, twist his holy words for their own agenda, I could go on as the list is endless. The Father accepted one man as his friend and that was appropriate as it was in line with his purpose to produce the ‘Seed’ to eventually break up the ‘works of the Devil himself’ and to rescue a dying, sinful mankind. God’s beautiful Grace to us! So no, the Heavenly Father does not need fair weather friends!!

              Much Christian Love to you JW Student. X

            • The Raven

              That depends on the congregation. It’s not true in all cases. Joseph is right. If you tell them not to call back anymore , they won’t. I did not do that because I value the opportunity to speak with active witnesses face to face. My address is still “open” to witnesses and always will be even though I am aware of their prophetic errors, wt imbroglios, etc. It appears you gave them the impression you were interested, yet also did some things to see how they would react even writing about it here. Knowing what you know about them, what did you expect? I’m sure you’re familiar with Robert’s work on the major issues with the wt and the ills that plague them so it really should not come as a surprise that witnesses are blind and deaf to much except the drive to continue the preaching work. Not everyone who is awakened is capable of handling that knowledge and still function in some capacity as a possible benefit to those who remain asleep. When you say you no longer believe it to be truth, what exactly do you mean? Are you speaking of the basic truths as taught by witnesses such as Jehovah is God, Jesus, his son etc or the wto? Because we all know what the society has become and what’s to happen . Just wondering.

            • I hear what you say, but curious as to why Robert and Island Breeze acted so hostile to me when I simply wanted to let people here know how I was getting on with my trying to fade out. I am not baptised, so assume I can’t be disfellowshipped. 🙂 Oh well, people here can attack me if they want. I genuinely thought people might be interested in how my disassociation was going. How wrong I was >.< Oh well, life goes on. Currently looking for a church in my area which does not have the "obey us and don't dare question us" approach. Oddly enough I do feel "released" from the all-watchful eyes of the WTBTS, and I am able to do things now without feeling the guilt or fear of the elders finding out. 🙂

            • The Raven

              I can’t speak for Robert or Joseph but I can say that many ex JWs are in fact hostile and are not only leaving but more than willing to rip apart folks who still remain. As you know Robert and many of us still accept that the WT has had a prominent role in preaching the good news of the kingdom, in setting matters straight concerning the trinity and hellfire that christendom has erroneously taught and teaching folks about the wonderful prospects of life eternal in a new earth under heaven’s rule. They have accomplished a great work over the course of 100 years plus and it’s not over with yet. Given that and the vicious attacks from ex witnesses I would say it’s understandable that those of us who know what’s about to happen may not have much patience with some. I’m wondering how much you do know about Jehovah’s judgments in these matters? If you are as familiar with this as many of us were led to think than your behavior in this matter is a puzzle. It could be said that you were more worried about the personalities and behavior of the congregation than you were about the message itself. You certainly placed a great deal of emphasis on that, as we’ve been reading. It takes a great deal of understanding and nowadays a good bit of knowledge to be able to serve Jehovah with a good conscience and place our trust in Him and Jesus Christ for the salvation of His people.
              Finding a “church” where you don’t have to make any effort or even think for yourself is easy. Always has been. You can believe anything you want and they won’t hassle you. BUT… at what cost? Does the easy, broad and wide road lead to salvation? What does scripture say about that?
              I think you know. Since when throughout all of biblical accounts have Jehovah’s people had it easy or ever been perfect in God’s eyes?
              Never. But christendom… good luck there. We all came out of it because we saw where that road leads. Do you really want to be a part of that because it is “easier” ?
              So, you don’t like the witnesses and that’s understandable. But don’t let the things that stumble men which are trivial in God’s eyes, stumble you.
              If you want my advice here it is; continue to study Jehovah’s word and get more familiar with the deeper aspects of prophecy through folks who are aware of the truth. Many here are. Choice is yours, but I would caution you against making yourself a part of an institution like christendom which faces it’s own chapter in judgement and total annihilation.

            • Island Breeze
            • Island Breeze

              My apologies if I have offended you, guess I just wish that they would have checked in on me over the years……….after turning in a evil overseers years ago, I’ve been shunned.

              https://youtu.be/otwjBlOYHjc

            • The Raven

              You’re in very good company, Joseph. You are still able to see what’s happening and more importantly why.

            • Island Breeze

              Yes! And Jesus continues to carry me, and Jehovah listens to my cries in the wilderness!

            • The Raven

              Amen!

            • The Raven

              Hey, Joseph, I know you saw that! 😎

            • Song of Hannah

              Well you have to admit, it is totally surprising for you to have just become an unbaptized publisher and then up and disappear. And then complain when the friends actually care enough to visit you? Seems your knowledge of TTATT has puffed you up, and made you feel superior to them. Where is your professed love for them? And if you do truly love them as God requires, how are you showing it?

            • Yes, perhaps you are right. I should humble myself >.< I won't update my journey here any more as it clearly causes offence. Sorry. My professed love? Perhaps a bit of the JW has rubbed off on me; after all they too show conditional love (we'll love you as long as you believe what we believe, or rather what 7 men in New York tell you what to believe). Seems I have a lot to learn about leaving the JWs and the people here. Well, I am prepared to learn, after all I am starting a new chapter in my life. Must admit I was hoping for a bit of encouragement here, but instead I get attacked. Once I dry these eyes of mine I'll look for others who to have left the JW religion. Perhaps they can give me helpful advice on what to do next and how to part, amicably from the JWs.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello JW student, sorry to see you have got yourself into a pickle here. Robert believes the witnesses to be Jehovah’s organisation. You said you were finished with the witnesses and so that rather negates your reason to be here. Hence the comment. It may be brusque but this is not a game of personalities and culture. You were not attacked, but reproached and the reason for that I suppose, is that there is enough bother on this site as it is.

              People here are of course interested in your spiritual development or life, but not in game playing. We all need to quit thinking about personalities and concentrate on the message. That is all people are interested in here, though of course there is a sort of international friendship and a need to accept difference. This is essentially not about people, but the spiritual realm. As Raven said, you won’t find it anywhere else except in a few recognisable places. The Church of England etc is not the place, just an almighty compromise, devoid of any standard as is all of Christendom.

              I suggest you quit worrying about people. The status quo on that is that 33% will like you, 33% will not like you and 33% will be indifferent. No one, except family is pained if we live or die. Just regret if a friend. That is true, and worth remembering. Our only true touch of genuine life and future love and graciousness is through Jehovah. Might I at least continue to hope that you stay here? I hope you do. You are too valuable to throw it all away on a silly emotive issue. Keep your wits about you.

            • Hi Burt. Hmm, seems like I am confused here. If Robert believes they are Jehovah’s organisation, why is he still not with them? What’s the difference between me not being a member of the WTBTS society, and him not being a member? Perhaps I am just being stupid for not understanding that. After all Robert does, in his book and podcasts, attack various beliefs of the WTBTS. I have, however, noticed that he does tell people to stay in the organisation rather than leave it, which again makes me wonder why doesn’t he stay in it. However, I am not saying this to cause offence or stir things up, but I am genuinely interested, as I have clearly misunderstood Robert’s, and therefore this Disque page’s, stance where the JWs are concerned. I too do not want to harbour any malice toward the JWs, after all there are some really nice people there. It’s the GB and the upper echelon’s of the society that I am angry towards, you know, with the whole child sex abuse scandal. But you are absolutely right, I should stop worrying about people. I guess we all want to be liked 🙂 I do want to stay here as, of all those I have met on here, I have always enjoyed reading your comments and answers to my questions, and for that I thank you from my heart. 🙂

            • a watcher

              Hover over the phrase “Page One” at the top of this page and select “About” from the drop-down menu.

            • The Raven

              Hi, watcher. Thanks for pointing that out to him! I forget it’s there! Lol!

            • Burt Reynolds

              I thought that was the problem. It’s a difficult thing to grasp. There are three things that you can do to get the understanding you need using your bible.. 1/ read Roberts book ….it’s free and on this site. That will give you the outline and insight into the issues to hand and explain the role that the watchtower has in prophesy. 2/ write to Robert on his questions facility here on site, tell him what your understanding is and ask him to explain to you your initial basic needs in terms of what the watchtower is. He will only be too happy to tell you or point you to specific articles that he has writers. Compare Roberts contribution with what the bible says. The two clearly have to match in your mind and provide insight into the bible. This is about the bible, not what I or anyone else thinks or writes. 3/. Ask people here on site. They too will be happy to tell you the good news of the bible and the basic outline as we understand it to be. Two other things: if you don’t know what to do, do nothing, because you can make things worse without knowing it! That’s my maxim anyway. The other, and most primary thing, is prayer and study of the bible. If you want to take advice, mine would be to talk to the witnesses again, and allow them to tell you the basics of the bible, from the bible. Don’t cast them adrift, it’s more important than you think….you will come to know why….and give yourself time. You can be assured of one last thing too. Of course everyone here wants you to stay, to grow in knowledge of Jehovah and to contribute your thoughts. You are valuable and appreciated, wanted and welcome. Just give yourself time to learn and the open heart to learn it through. THEN, being in posession of the facts, you can make your decision on what you wish to do without regrets. Either way, you will get what you deserve. We all will. We are all in the same boat, but there is no need for you to jump overboard. Stick with it and learn what the bible has to say.

            • The Raven

              As always, sound advice, Burt!

            • Song of Hannah

              Didn’t mean to sadden you, and I truly apologize. But honestly, Love is the answer. And by extension, grace. If you can get to that point, you will not only heal from the ordeal, but be able to help others, as well. Hugs!!!

            • KB

              I have to admit, I’m quite jealous of your circumstance. You have the real truth at hand and an opportunity tell others without major repercussions since you are not baptized. You could continue to plant seeds of truth like you have been. Here I can’t tell anyone anything because of fear of disfellowshipping since I’m baptized. Either way you decide it’s up to you and I understand. I for one have enjoyed your posts and wish you the best.

            • Burt Reynolds

              You’re right on that score. I think we play a waiting game, but I’m certain it will be rewarded. The witnesses may well become as drowning men clutching at straws when the Titanic watchtower, the unsinkable, suddenly sinks. If that is the case, we have a scriptural life boat for them. I think I will disembark from the SS. Metaphor now.

            • Eric

              JWS,

              I wouldn’t get discouraged by anyone here. They’re just being honest. They love JWs who are still asleep, and maybe feel you’re a little harsh? I’m an unbaptized publisher myself, but left after being denied baptism. I didn’t mention it before, but I was getting close to a sister and we planned on dating after I was baptized. Well, it turns out one of the elders who denied me REALLY likes her, and she rejected him. The funny thing is, his set of questions were fair and the experience was very positive. Turns out, he did me a favor. I never would have looked at Robert’s work had I been “accepted” into the club. I had already viewed many ex-JW sites while researching my decision to get baptized, but I found them angry and bitter. I was ready to devote all my attention to JW.org and never look back… I became convinced the ex-JWs were disgruntled apostates, peddling lies because they were angry about being DF’d. The indisputable facts and excellent arguments brought to light here changed my mind.

              It’s frustrating to put so much time and effort in, to then wake up and realize the higher ups run the organization like a cult. It’s still Jehovah’s organization though. By assuming God’s name and claiming to be his organization, they’ve really put the burden of proof on themselves. As Robert has proven, they’ve failed their sheep in regards to prophesy, by protecting and propogating the false 1914 doctrine, as well as other issues. They will answer for that.

              I’m having a hard time going to a meeting because I don’t want to see the elders who I feel stumbled me… I speak my mind and don’t hold back when questioned. This site helped to unstumble me. I’ve been thinking about going to another hall, but I don’t know, since I’m not drifting back into a worldly existence. I have no friends there, as all my friends are worldly, and you don’t truly fit in until you’re baptized. I try to witness when I can without pushing people away. Job had unrighteous friends, right? People like you and I can lead by example and be a sort of buffer between the hardcore witnesses and the world. If we don’t come on too strong, or self righteous as so many JWs unknowingly do… maybe we can save a few?

            • Burt Reynolds

              Good for you Eric. That is exactly the point, the attitude, the insight, the perseverance, the heart condition and the appreciation for Jehovah. You’re truely blessed to be given that insight and the knowledge to work with it and live it. Jehovah has noticed you. No wandering in the wilderness for you! You must be related to Moses somewhere along the line. ( And never mind about your sweetheart, you’re probably best placed to help her if you did but know it!).

            • Eric

              I could be related to Moses… my great, great grandmother was Jewish. lol

            • Lev

              JW Student, some prisoners, when they leave prison, can not live a simple life. They commit crime, in order to go back to prison again, they feel good like a fish in the water. (Proverbs 26:11). Walk away from them and do not mend (Rev. 18: 4). Forget about them as a terrible dream, about people who have become slaves to people (1 Corinthians 7:23). Live a full life and be happy, as your HAPPY GOD wants it from you. Believe my life experience, no matter how you go, they will forever delete you from the lists of the living! Therefore, do not torture yourself with remorse – Christ determined their fate: (Mt. 15: 14). They did not have long to feast in their “spiritual feast”. Russia started the end of the ZHV era. We have already banned three unclean spirit-sites, the translation of the New World (not to be confused with the Bible) and the Organization. (Rev.16: 13)

  • Andres Felipe

    Google Translation :
    they had to know what they were doing … these men really hurt my head. they had to approve the project, rendered drawings and design in general. a few days ago a sister wrote me crying for this. The truth is that I have seen so much evil inside the organization that I do not feel so much astonishment

    • Alex Henrique

      Please read my comments here. I do not believe that. For me this project is a adaptation for a terrain that they have. And I do not capacity for reading minds and after that know 100% that project is to praise Satan. Take care brother.

    • Alex Henrique

      It is not because GB has made several mistakes that it means that all they do is with evilness in mind. And
      it is not because RK has helped us to understand several important
      things, just as GB helped us, that means he can not go wrong.

      • into the light

        No one except Jehovah and Christ should have our unconditional loyalty. And those that take lead and those that teach should be scrutinized. Hebrews 13:7. Please notice that we need to contemplate their conduct. If it agrees with scripture we might imitate them. Ours is not to judge because there is a supreme judge who is over us, but their conduct speaks for itself.

        • Alex Henrique

          This is what I call “spiritual mind”. Many people seats in the throne of Jesus, by expelling him out from his throne, and declaring things that only him and his father can say. Sorry to say, but RK and GB are those, in my view.

          • into the light

            Again, ours is not to judge. Jehovah has empowered our Lord Jesus to do the part. What we can do is search for spiritual gems that help us discern what the truth is. As for GB, RK and many others out there, their judgment will be heavier because of the responsibility they have taken up. And they are aware of it. I try not to be overly concerned about those things because, thank God, we have a gift of free will and reason, so we can check for ourselves what is true.

      • Andres Felipe

        La verdad es que sí tengo que mejorar mi visión de la organización, para mí no ha sido fácil el engaño de tantos años…Como todos necesito corregir mi punto de vista . Pero por primera vez entiendo a profetas como alias y Jeremías. Elias creía que no había hombres fieles en Israel y jehova tuvo que corregirle diciendo que había más de 7000 hombres . Y Jeremías se sintió embaucado por jehova. La verdad es que creo que TODO lo que hace la organización es por manipulación mental .

        • Richard Long

          Andres Felipe Alex Henrique • 2 hours ago in english:

          The truth is that I do have to improve my vision of the organization, for me it has not been easy to deceive so many years … As everyone needs to correct my point of view. But for the first time I understand prophets as aliases and Jeremiah. Elijah believed that there were no faithful men in Israel and Jehova had to correct him by saying that there were more than 7000 men. And Jeremiah was fooled by jehovah. The truth is that I believe that ALL what the organization does is by mental manipulation.

  • Richard Long

    Robert, we have on occasion explored the connections between CT Russell and the Freemason’s fueled by the distinctive memorial near his grave. This video shows convincing argument from WT literature that said monument was erected in concert with the IBSA, WTB&TS and CTR was fully aware of it’s design and commission. Sorry to break the bad news, but it certainly appears the Freemasons have been having us all along.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q3qPuZbyTI

    • Thinking

      I don’t know who’s in your ear Brother Richard…but they are not doing you any favours…this comes from an anti witness page…not anything to do with us….
      Please read it Richard…you are being conned

      https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php

      • The Raven

        Hi, Thinking! That’s a LOT of info from many different sources. Thanks for the link. I’ve only been able to find pieces so that helps a great deal! Hope you are doing ok! 🙂

        • Thinking

          Yeah I’m okay..you know me…big mouth and all that..hahha..but that info was like a gold find for me years ago…I mean there is no way Jehovah would use someone actively involved with the occult like trappings…Jehovah just wouldn’t do that…he wouldn’t even let David build his temple because he had shed too much blood…
          I do feel sorry for Russel at times..as he was coming out of BTG and bought a lot of it with him as he just didn’t understand it all at that time…
          Jehovah knew that..and he gradually worked to remove so much of what he unknowingly brought with him…

          Sure he had misconceptions about things..and some strange things…but as we say over here…he had the guts of what he wrote right…
          A very brave man who really did love righteousness …but very imperfect and a sinful as well …
          Personally I find comfort in that….sort of gives ME A BIT OF HOPE hahah!!!

          • The Raven

            I read almost all of it and have it bookmarked. I am going to check out the linked sources too. I really appreciate good research. I agree about hope. There are evil slaves for sure but not all are. We’ll know soon enough. Thanks again, sister! 😁

            • Thinking

              Have you got the link to Russell’s verse by verse of the bible…it’s fascinating…if you want I’ll try to send the link…..I’m amazed at his understanding at that time…even his errors make me smile…sort of..lol….when I read his speech at the Masonic hall.
              …I was really impressed at his gentleness and his reasoning….actually I think I’m going to go back and read it again..
              I think thinking has a awful lot to learn ..😜

            • The Raven

              I’d like to see that too. I’ve finished reading the pages and It’s fascinating. I find it even more so when folks who don’t have an ax to grind dig up some good info. They sometimes can be a little more objective.

            • Thinking
            • The Raven

              It works. Thanks, Thinking!

          • Craig Knight

            Russell was way ahead of his time with his knowledge of the kingdom that’s for sure. I like how you put it – He brought some of BTG with him. He was dabbling in some esoteric stuff but as you say if He was purposely practicing occult stuff then God would not have used him. The Devil was there manipulating things for people to stumble over later just like He has done with GB all these years. He’s always been there in the background fighting covertly. It should not come as a shock to us.

            • Thinking

              Sometimes I think it would be easier to see the In visible Spirit forces working against us as a people…..but I guess then we would all die of shock anyway …..and they would trick us and appear as an angel of light….and I’m preety sure I’d be deceived ….for a while anyway…yeah I do t think it would be a good thing to see them ..so I’ll retract that thought. ..lol…

            • Richard Long

              You are right to say that it should not come to a shock to us. If one is shocked, it means that person has not fully weighed the meaning of the expression “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one”. One should contemplate this statement without shame or recrimination, just realize the apostle was inspired to give this information to those who would understand and accept reality despite what they were unable to see or not see around them.

              And before anyone falls off their barstool, this could be read to say “I, Richard, was shocked and when I searched for the cause and effect of my shock, I found the root cause to be that I, Richard, had not fully weighed the meaning of the expression “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one” and I think this is a general condition of humanity.

            • The Raven

              I looked through those links and something popped right away: Fritz Springmeier. The writer of that book The Watchtower and the Masons.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Springmeier

              http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier1.htm

              http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier2.htm

              The first link is not a surprise since the WTO itself made it known. Thinking’s links also confirm that.

            • Thinking

              fritz springmeir is as dodgy as they come…I read so much on him..and watched his videos…he is very clever…..he nearly got me sucked In There for a bit..

            • The Raven

              People who think the skinheads and sheet wearing idiots are dangerous haven’t met these fellows. They fully intend to back their beliefs in “YAHWEH” with guns when TSHTF. They have been recruiting from every denomination you can think of for their ‘army”. He was married to a JW at one time. It’s no surprise to me he would target them. I read most of it and found it to be loaded with presumptions that make the whole thing suspect. I’ve run across these folks before on the net and I’m sure many others have too.

            • The Raven

              There’s more on this fellow. I remember his stories from Cathy O’Brian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_O%27Brien_(conspiracy_theorist)

              http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2013/01/369-fritz-springmeier.html

              Excerpt:
              Springmeier has written and self-published a number of books based on the ideology of the ultra-right-wing group the Christian Patriot Association (which was shut down in 2002 after convictions for tax fraud and tax evasion). Springmeier has vigorously defended the veracity of Project Monarch, allegedly a CIA mind control project, with most of his defense being based on the testimony of the legendary Cathy O’Brien in his book “Deeper insights into the Illuminati Formula”. According to whale “the book was coauthored with former Illuminati programmer Cisco Wheeler”. You can find Springmeier & Wheeler’s rantings online here. Wheeler’s credentials remain unverified.

              Springmeier’s earlier “The Watchtower & the Masons” argued (by garbled insanity) that there was a strong relationship between Jehovah’s Witnesses and Freemasonry (and hence conspiracy).”

            • Craig Knight

              Both of those people are complete lunatics. I wouldn’t want to cross paths in a dark alley with that Springmeier fellow!

    • Beverly kenyon

      Get this Richard, one for your ear. Just read in the, Daily Mail Online here in the UK, actress/advocate Leah Remini told Entertainment Weekly on Friday she could be delving into the denomination of JW’s.

      Remini said, she was warned of the JW’s that, ‘these ******s are super powerful’ but is not one to cower in fear.

      Are you ready for my response? She said. ‘I don’t give a ***t about powerful. Truth is what I care about.

      Looks like the House of JW’s might be coming under scrutiny in the media once again.

      ‘For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all’. Luke8:17 NLT.

    • Craig Knight

      Great video Richard!

      • Richard Long

        If you care to look at the original documents, check my edit.

        • Craig Knight

          There’s a ton of info you have there. I will save it to my computer and read it later. I have word pad on my laptop at home and it was too much info so I will save it on my work computer on word.

    • Thinking

      Ooooh Richard. Of course I didnt t mean to be condensesing to you..and if I came over to you like that please accept my sincere apologies…I wish we could talk face to face…so much is lost by written words…didn’t I say you were a most humble man before…you are kind and generous…so please accept my hear felt apology to you…if it came over like that…
      As we know satan has infiltrated…it doesn’t matter who he uses…Freemasons..illuminati. …KGB..it’s all the same really isn’t it…they are all working for Satan…I just try to remember there was only one Judas….and he was in charge of the money box…so I guess it will all boil down to money …and I remember there there were five faithful virgins….so he still has his house…as corrupted as they have become…take heart my brother…all is not lost…
      I wish I could talk privately to you but I do t know how to do that..because if I was uncovered I’d probably be out in that back room like ..Jack flash…
      Biggest hugs to you
      YOUR sister thinking xx

    • Bklyn Kevin

      My Visit to CT Russell’s Grave Site
      Excerpt:
      You have probably seen pictures of his gigantic pyramid. Some people are under the impression that Russell is buried under it. That’s not the case. As can be seen in the video, his actual grave marker is about 30 feet from the pyramid. And the pyramid was constructed about five years after his death. He had nothing to do with it, obviously.. In all likelihood, although Russell was not a Mason himself he was evidently influenced by certain men who were. In all probability Masons long ago infiltrated the Watchtower Society.

      Having read much of his writings and his work, I believe CT Russell was a genuine child of faith whom Jehovah and Christ used with great effect. Unlike modern evangelical preachers that use their pulpit to gain riches, Pastor Russell did the exact opposite. He used his personal wealth to finance the Watchtower. Read more>
      https://e-watchman.com/my-visit-to-ct-russells-grave-site/

    • Burt Reynolds

      That’s quite a document you have found there Richard! I read the pages you suggested and a few following and it was quite revealing how politicised the society was how they looked upon world events in isolation. I have not read all of it, but if what I have read of the society at that time, compared with what it is now, it seems that they just assign significance to events as they see fit……take an event, squeeze it into the prepared prophecy mould….make it doctrine. Certainly their understanding of Masonic ritual and significance was well founded, as was their adulation of brother Russell offensive also. From my own understanding of the Masonic ritual, I would certainly have no doubts that brother Russell was a Freemason based on what is written in the article. It is unlikely in my opinion, that such symbolism would be allowed outside of the Masonic brotherhood, unless there was an ulterior motive…such as Rutherford or some other high ranking brother who acted on behalf of a Masonic influence already within the society. However I am not sure that such matters in the outworking of the purpose.

      It seems from what was written and the dates given, that the brother who sought out the stone, was searching for it even before Russell died! Regardless, masons never divulge membership to commoners. You could not join, you had to be invited to join. Members were identified through sign alone. I recall in one famous murder trial that the accused revealed his Masonic brotherhood to the judge through sign in a plea for mercy, though he didn’t get it.

      I read Roberts article on the grave too. I find that comparing the two, it is difficult to determine at what stage of development, the society was ever within Jehovah’s favour. Maybe favour was never a requirement and I don’t recognise pure action in Spending ones own money to start a cause as being synonymous with pure intent. But I would have had to be there to make such a judgement and I was not. There again, should we assume that all people who are masons, are of evil intent? We do not say that of the brothers still languishing in the the watchtower and I know many kind and generous masons. Perhaps the question we should be asking is not whether freemasonry is a factor, but, as you point out, at what point did corruption come into the society. Regardless though, it appears that both good and evil run parallel in the society.

  • steve

    Thank you Robert for another enlightening expose, its brilliant and ranks as one of the best yet.

  • Zeek

    Speaking of ‘disgusting things in a holy place’…

    Chile KH’s (holy place) HABITUALLY publicly display (digusting thing) gov flag after the state’s ‘law requires it’.
    (So their ‘drunken’ false reasoning again twists Romans 13…)

    https://youtu.be/eetNR7fYuD8

    …yet more blatently flagrant ‘winking’ at the all-seeing-eye of Horus… at the doorstep of a UK KH:

    https://youtu.be/Ksy7VG4isJY

    • sally

      Wow, so for a measley $1200 per year they can completely get out of putting up the flag it seems. What exactly do they spend their millions on?

      • The Raven

        Court cases and fines?

    • into the light

      So KH in Chile is right across the street from Hells Angels building? That’s hillarious https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9b4b52c5421cc3e55455450f1c981fcea33e421a230aea678eaffc8e6ce92139.png

      • The Raven

        Lol! I’ve never had any problems with them . In fact I’ve had more than a few discussions with clubbers at job sites. Nice scoots!

      • Richard Long

        Poor biker’s. Just can’t pick your neighbors sometimes.😎

        • The Raven

          Hahahaha!

        • into the light

          I guess they did pick. I checked the street view of the address, and there was no Hells Angels place when they scanned the area. Video is from a couple of weeks ago.

  • Jeremiah Too

    Interesting that the direction in which the brothers and sisters are facing at this assembly ground, is east. Ezekiel 18:15-17

    • Richard Long

      Interesting enough for you to kindly just tell us the significance of it? I mean, I think I know, but would like you to just say it if you will. ☺

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