Jesus, what have they done to you now?

//Jesus, what have they done to you now?

A few weeks ago someone sent me a screen shot of an illustration from one of the Watchtower’s latest brochures, the one entitled Good News From God. Apparently the subliminal artists are still at it. And why shouldn’t they be? 

The illustration posted here is, of course, rotated 90 degrees so as to stand the “mountain range” vertically on its end. The subliminal image is a bearded Christ with his arms raised overhead, as if hanging on the stake. He appears to be wearing a falcon-head headdress and above that lurks the half head of the obligatory ram’s head. (Rams appear in many of the Watchtower’s subliminals.) And then on Jesus’ chest there appears a hideous mush-faced creature. The birds would seem to be giving Jesus an inverted act of mock obeisance – bowing their tails, not their heads, while bowing to the light – the light radiating is Satan. I suppose the happy family are gleefully free-falling into Sheol without a resurrecting bungee cord, rather than submit themselves to the tyranny of Christ.  (If you can’t see it you probably have some sort of mental, pop-up subliminal blocker on, or something like that.)

Keeping in mind this is the digital age and all, still, the same creatures lurk in the nether that were around thousands of years ago. This sort of demon footprint brings to my mind the accounts in the Bible when the demons tried to become witnesses for Jesus. Recall that on many occasions when Jesus expelled the demons they would try to use their host to declare Jesus to be the Holy one and the Son of God. Sometimes they would blurt it out before Jesus rebuked them, but sometimes Jesus would not allow them to speak at all because they knew he was the Christ.

Years later Paul and Silas encountered a demon-possessed girl who followed them around for several days bellowing: “These men are slaves of the Most High God, who are publishing to you the way of salvation.”

Nothing the girl said was untrue. But what was the point of it? Was it in order to give the demon-possessed girl credibility? Perhaps. Likely the demons were trying to insinuate themselves into the midst of believers, as they were able to successfully accomplish in the case of the Corinthian congregation, which was presided over by those whom Paul chided as “superfine apostles,” whom he revealed were actually satanic agents who had convincingly transformed themselves into ministers of righteousness to such an extent that they were more influential than Paul, who founded the congregation.

The demons covet what belongs to God.

From the very beginning Satan devised a scheme to insert himself as God over mankind in order to receive worship to himself. He was wildly successful.

During the time when God had instituted a system of formal worship centered around a tabernacle and later a temple ministered to by Levitical priests, the demons successfully seduced generations of priests into abandoning the worship of Jehovah and converting God’s temple to worship numerous gods and their idols, which the Bible reveals were merely fronts for the demons.

In the Christian era, after the last of the apostles died off, Christianity was subverted into similar forms of demon worship.

As all of Jehovah’s Witnesses know, virtually everything associated with Christendom originated in demon religion – certainly the entire foundation, including the Trinity, the so-called holy days (holidays), the all-pervasive immortal soul lie, you name it.

The Devil even placed his signature on the whole of Christendom by emblazoning it with the cross, which the demon religions of antiquity revered long before Jesus was impaled on a wooden pole.

And even the Bible Students that grouped around Charles Taze Russell were originally saddled with the Christianized forms of the Feast of Saturnalia and the Easter bacchanalia, not to mention that they also embraced the pagan cross as the symbol of Christianity, which, as is known as the Masonic cross and crown, appeared on every cover of the Watchtower Magazine for decades.

The beauty is, in the end Jehovah is going to let the Devil have the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. ‘You want it? You got it!’

God has no limitations. As Jesus once said, he could cause the very rocks to cry out the message if men failed to do so. Bottom line: Jehovah has other means. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is not necessary. It may as well go “poof” tomorrow. And it will.

So, while the demons may mark their turf with silly subliminals, pretending that Christ bows to the king of the demons, Jehovah long ago straightforwardly foretold that he is going to crush Satan under our feet, shortly. Christ’s victory over the Devil has guaranteed the outcome. And there is nothing any demon or Watchtower (con)artist can do about it.

Related article: Subliminal Images in Watchtower Publications

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2016-12-08T15:12:31+00:00 August 18th, 2012|Sidenotes|78 Comments
  • Jonah Peter Paul

    Leonard shared this on facebook. I wasn’t aware of this article of yours. Seems like there is still much digging left for us to do. I highly appreciate you explaining this matter. That specific report in the bible where a demon possessed girl followed Paul and Silas had puzzled me for quite some time now. I mean why would the demon tell the truth? Was it a partly because they wanted to repent or make it up to God somehow? Now at least we know. It seems though that they have no trace of anything good in them at all. This mockery of Jesus and Jehovah in the subliminal imagery in the WT publications are disgusting to say the least. I want to bring every publication with subliminal meaning to bethel’s high officials and interrogate them for it. I was known in both congregations I stayed in for listening to heavy metal music. I never really got over it nor changed that habit until I found out what the lyrics of those songs really meant. Most “famous” songs now a days contain messages of mockery against Jehovah himself and that thing I cannot stomach. I have deleted every single music from my playlist (except 2 inspirational songs). And now our home which is filled with publications contain mockery themselves how ironic! “Don’t listen to rock music because they contain messages against God” that is what some of the elders told me. Little did I know they have their own version of mockery against Jehovah. Not to mention the family of wooden idols (built for visitors to have photos with) that is now also in our local Bethel branch. -Last Will Be First

    • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

      To Dear Brother
      Jonah Peter Paul. I did not understand what it means the family of wooden idols (built for visitors to have photos with) that is now also in our local Bethel branch. Could you put more light on this for me? I kindly request you to do so.

      • Jonah Peter Paul

        They built Caleb and Sophia statues made of hard cardboard/ wood in Bethels around the world where brothers and sisters can have pictures with. The branch even provides some cardboard bags to be used as props. Here are some pictures

        • ewatchman

          That is, I don’t know, creepy? Weird? Definitely ridiculous. I don’t know what to make of it. I guess it is mostly just sad.

          • Jonah Peter Paul

            My husband said that the JWs probably grew impatient waiting for Jehovah and for Jesus to do something after all he has been king for over 100 years now right? lol So the branch just provided them with some cartoon characters to worship for the meantime 🙂 What is just so bad about this is that the organization itself promotes it and these characters originated from them too. Now you see little children posing with Caleb and Sophia bags, clothes and other paraphernalia and parents actually feel proud when their children do! Even adults are wearing merchandise that contains these fictitious characters but most usually the adults prefer the JWorg logo to be put on their cars, clothes, bags, jewelry and even in cakes and pastries. The scariest/ creepiest part is that the deluded Witnesses even think that the idolatry that they and their children are practicing is actually pleasing to God! You see them standing proud while posing in the camera with their idols.

          • Jonah Peter Paul

            My husband said that the JWs probably grew impatient waiting for Jehovah and for Jesus to do something after all he has been king for over 100 years now right? lol So the branch just provided them with some cartoon characters to worship for the meantime 🙂 What is just so bad about this is that the organization itself promotes it and these characters originated from them too. Now you see little children posing with Caleb and Sophia bags, clothes and other paraphernalia and parents actually feel proud when their children do! Even adults are wearing merchandise that contains these fictitious characters but most usually the adults prefer the JWorg logo to be put on their cars, clothes, bags, jewelry and even in cakes and pastries. The scariest/ creepiest part is that the deluded Witnesses even think that the idolatry that they and their children are practicing is actually pleasing to God! You see them standing proud while posing in the camera with their idols.

            • ewatchman

              I applaud the WT for finally using the Internet to put their message out there. JW Broadcasting is well produced and shows what they can do, from a technical perspective. However, I still feel they are not using the Master’s talents to the full.

              The Caleb/Sophie cartoons are an embarrassment. It is a cynical effort at behavioral modification. With the resources they have they could do more, much much more.

            • Jonah Peter Paul

              True. We agree brother. They probably got the idea from your youtube videos. It could have been a great platform to reach more people and teach them the truth but instead of having additional members, the whole JW broadcasting thing, which is built with wrong motives of trying to show off, sadly just caused numerous Witnesses to have doubts and be stumbled. It only brought more reproach to the name of Jehovah. Now pictures of the GB members together with the price of their expensive watches and clothes are scattered online. And the broadcast episode where David Splane explained their new meaning of “this generation” was an epic fail. I have read comments from Witnesses saying “that is probably not from the governing body. It’s from an enemy of the organization cause the explanation makes no sense!” So now the world had to witness the org’s nonsensical teachings. And it is just so wrong to scare children to follow. Jehovah gave us free will so that we will serve him not because we were forced to but because we want to!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              It’s much more than an embarrassment.
              I believe It’s Satan working from behind the scenes using his man of lawlessness .
              The watchtower is using the same method as the worldly media In order to persuade/seduce children into their way of thinking and isn’t that what Satan did to eve? Of course Satan didn’t use the media because it was not invented yet but nonetheless he spoke through a serpent in order to accomplish his purpose.
              And if the opportunity should arise Satan will most certainly use these cartoon characters to accomplish his purpose as well Pervert pure worship by seducing children into idolatry Just like the Israelites of old .Exodus 32:1-35.
              Perhaps the watchtower has good intentions at heart, But I fear they have become ignorant of Satan’s design / schemes. 1 Peter 5:8.Ephesians 6:12.

            • Anna

              To be honest I think you are thinking this through far too much implying things that are not really mean that way at all. Caleb and Sophia are for the kids. Children respond well to fictional characters, they learn a lot through this method because it captivates them. Can you imagine teaching a child using a book with no pictures and no color for example? If you have kids, you will know what I mean. And posing with these characters is just having fun! None of this has anything to do with worship, come on! And calling them idols is just plain ridiculous! As for the JW logo, that’s just advertising the website. The more places a logo is put, the more effective it is as it imprints itself on peoples mind. When people see it again, they remember they’ve seen it before and their curiosity is sparked. When a person visits the website, and their heart is searching for truth, they will find it there.

            • Jonah Peter Paul

              Okay let’s analyze what you just said here. “Caleb and Sophia are for the kids. Children respond well to fictional characters, they learn a lot through this method because it captivates them. Can you imagine teaching a child using a book with no pictures and
              no color for example?”

              First, Caleb and Sophia are for the kids. For kids to what? Idolize? Haven’t seen the Caleb and Sophia bags, t-shirts, cakes, pins and toys? Even adults wear Caleb and Sophia merchandise. I saw one man wearing a printed polo with these fictional character’s faces. It made him look like a pedophile.

              Second you said “Can you imagine teaching a child using a book with no pictures and no color for example?” -No. I cannot imagine that because as I child me and my husband were raised up and were taught about the bible through the “yellow hardbound book” called The Book of Bible Stories and to us that was more than enough. The book was revised and now includes questions on the back for every chapter. And then a new provision was made, the Learning From The Great Teacher Book with TONS OF PHOTOS and ILLUSTRATIONS that children can relate to. The organization also released cartoons featuring the story of David and Goliath and Noah. Then on the back of the magazines there were Bible cards to cut out and collect and also some activities which were based ON THE BIBLE. Are these provisions not enough for your children to learn to follow and obey Jehovah? Probably.

              You said I would understand if I had kids. Well I have a very young daughter. Thankfully my daughter doesn’t need to watch and idolize some “fictional characters” to follow Jehovah and do his commandments. My daughter knows better than basic “do not steal” or “do not lie” or “do not play with toys that promotes magic” without the need to make her watch FICTIONAL CHARACTERS THAT ARE NOT FROM THE BIBLE. My daughter preaches on her own, no motivation needed, my daughter prays daily on her own even before eating crackers or biscuits, my daughter teaches others about prophecies and it’s future fulfillment, my daughter turns off the tv in disgust when she sees magic or satanic symbols when she watches. My daughter is a well known Jehovah’s witness who stands by her beliefs since she was 3 years old! She is not afraid to stand up even to her teachers when her God or her faith is being questioned. She roams the street sometimes with her grandpa, telling people about Jehovah’s promise in the paradise, preaching to people with her own explanation, in her own words why people shouldn’t worship Mary or Jesus. And yet we as parents were able to accomplish these without anything but the Bible, The Book of Bible Stories, The Great Teacher, the “bible based” audio drama and “bible based” cartoons that the organization has previously published. Not to mention my daughter also has taken great interest in Bible prophecies and this website was able to help her with that.

              To highlight the obvious, children do not need any fictional character to motivate them to follow and obey Jehovah. So are your children following Jehovah “only because they want to imitate Caleb and Sophia?” Please do not tell us here that there is nothing bad with the trend of placing these fictional character’s faces in bags, in clothes, in cakes, in notebooks, in cars and even imitating them. I have tons of proof that I can show you. Tell us that is not idolatry. Tell us Jehovah is so happy that there are cardboard statues of these fictional characters IN HIS TEMPLE. Jehovah surely wouldn’t be pleased when children wear them. Jehovah God would probably say, “Who are these creatures? And why do you bring them here to my temple?” If you see a person wearing a t-shirt with the face of Peter or Jesus, wouldn’t that be weird? What more so if that is a picture of someone who isn’t even included in the bible and you wear them proudly in the kingdomhall!

              If the organization wanted children to learn about Jehovah better, they could have used BIBLE CHARACTERS instead of creating new ones and making them the object of idolization among children. For many decades Jehovah’s Witnesses survived without the need for these idols.

              And don’t even start telling me about JWORG I am not stupid I know what it is for and I promote it as well. Having an official website translated in so many languages for people to be able to access easily anytime anywhere was a brilliant idea but when you put JWORG on your pastries, on cakes, in jewelry, in cuff links, it gets disturbing. I mean what is that for? Jehovah’s Witnesses obviously know what the official website is, why do you need to show it off? Do Witnesses go out and give out these JWORG cakes and pastries out in the field, to the unbelievers? No they eat it. I see JWORG cakes very often. When someone is newly baptized, when a CO visits someone offers them a JWORG cake, when there are gatherings or during the PSS graduation. What is it for then, since they definitely aren’t for the worldly people to see? My inlaws has been Witnesses for 4 decades inside the org and yet my father in law wants to puke in disgust whenever he sees what some witnesses do.

              -Last Will Be First 1, 2

            • ewatchman

              Wow! You ought to start your own blog.

            • Kevin b

              Thanks, you are spot on.

            • Sam

              Your daughter sounds much more “spiritual” than those in our congs who are taught to look to these made up characters. When I was young I learnt from….. bible characters. *gasp! May Jehovah continue blessing your family. So encouraging to hear 🙂

            • Jonah Peter Paul

              Thank you. I just wanted to give my daughter the freedom to know Jehovah. Unlike my husband who was raised in the truth, my mother was long disassociated before I was born and my father is an atheist. I had always expressed my interest in the Bible and Jehovah God personally but my mother didn’t allow that. I was groomed to work on tv from a very young age and my desire to know God didn’t appeal to my mother at all. I was only allowed to have a bible study when I was 8 years old. If my mother lived a little longer, she would have not allowed me to be baptized. I made sure I’d do the opposite for our daughter. And we try to simply teach her about Jehovah and the bible and leave it up to her decide what she will do with the knowledge that she gained. I let her decide if she would attend a birthday party or not, i let her decide whether she would watch a particular cartoon or not. It is my belief that forcing, scaring a child to love and obey God is not the way after all when they grow up as adults they might just turn the other way but if children will be taught to love God and have their own convictions, that is something that they will be able to bring until they grow up.

            • Sam

              Inspiring! I can tell you she’ll flourish in such an environment. I’ve been fortunate to grow up in the truth, being brought up by God loving parents who did the same for me as you are doing for your young one.. it’s sad that not everyone even in the truth experience such. But Jehovah will surely care for them as the scriptures say 🙂

            • Anna

              I see you have very strong feelings on this subject. It’s commendable you have brought your daughter up so well, she sounds darling.
              Like you, I too was brought up on the Bible teach book and great teacher book. The point I am trying to make is that unfortunately society in general has become more and more dependent on electronics, simplified reasoning, more animated pictures and less reading. If you look at how much people used to read a hundred years ago…and I am sure you have seen the old WT magazines. They were pages and pages long. The study portion had 35 paragraphs! Now it has barely 18. Everything is being simplified and to the point. Years ago Children at school used to learn a different way to how they do now. This is the 21st century and it is different. Every century has its hallmarks, so much so that a historian can pinpoint it just by being given certain information characteristic for that era.
              With Caleb and Sophia, it really is for the very very young. As the children get older Caleb and Sophia become what they are, fictional, and naturally all interest is lost in them and transferred to more mature activities.
              Also, you might not realize, but many parents struggle with educating their children. The material is there, as you say the revised Bible Teach Book….and all the other books are there to be used. Also on JW.org there are many learning activities for children. Alas, many parents find it easier to turn on Caleb and Sophia. (although it’s intent was that it would AID further discussion on the subject). Some parents reason, “better Caleb and Sophia than Dora the explorer. After all, aren’t Caleb and Sophia Jehovah’s Witnesses”? The GB’s intent however was never that it should replace age appropriate more in depth study with the children. As for how the adults interact with the cardboard cut outs, well, that’s just some people, lol. Regarding that, I would not say that these characters are in Jehovah’s temple. That part of Bethel is not designed for worship but for providing information about the world wide work to visitors and it is trying to be “family friendly”. Also, another thought comes to mind. We might not be aware, but the GB does have its finger on the pulse of the congregations and their introduction of a more light hearted approach to certain aspects (I say certain aspects deliberately as it obviously does not apply to everything as some spiritually related subjects are very serious) of Bible education is in response to what has been noticed as a need among the friends in general. The 80’s and early 90’s were know to be rather somber and strict (this maybe had something to do following the trouble at HQ in the early 80’s). Just the other day we took our speaker and his young son to lunch and he, the speaker, told us how his parents had brought him up with threats of dying at Armageddon if he was “bad”. He said he does not want to bring his kids up that way. I have heard quite a few my age relate similar experiences when growing up, and indeed, many apostates will say the same thing, and state that as one of the reasons why they think we are a cult.

              As regards JW.org, I have never heard or seen the GB promote JW.org saying put it on cakes etc. You said “father in law wants to puke in disgust whenever he sees what some witnesses do”. And that’s exactly the point “what some witnesses do”. I must admit I think it’s ridiculous as well. But I am not going to judge other people’s conscience what it allows them to do. Perhaps in the near future, the GB will address this and advise caution and a regard for the conscience of others so they do not become a stumbling block. Perhaps, and this is just my advice, maybe you should write to the brothers at HQ voicing your concerns, I am sure you would not be the only one. But despite this, I still do not think any of this equates to idolization or worship. Oh, and another thing, I think these cakes and things are a very American culture thing. I am from mainland Europe, and I have not seen a JWorg cake there yet! Just saying 🙂 Crazy Americans, lol

            • Jonah Peter Paul

              Nope. I have very strong feelings for what is right. Under the pain of being redundant I will address your comment once again.

              First you said: “The point I am trying to make is that unfortunately society in general has become more and more dependent on electronics, simplified reasoning,more animated pictures and less reading. If you look at how much people used to read a hundred years ago…and I am sure you have seen the old WT magazines. They were pages and pages long. The study portion had 35 paragraphs! Now it has barely 18.”

              True some are carried by the trend of using technology and availing themselves of the convenience that is available. But it is not true that children have lost the interest to read nor that they are only interested now in animated pictures. It depends what example parents give their children. Children will only lose interest in books if you use Ipads and smartphones as your children’s baby sitter and of course technically since using gadgets are so efficient and fast, children get bored in the phase of usual activities like reading books. I myself didn’t find it so easy to disallow my daughter to use such things but it is not that hard either. Our daughter has a very short attention span. We had to pull her out of school since she couldn’t stand the lessons and activities that is done in school. So if the Bible Story Book or The Great Teacher was even boring in the slightest sense, there is no way she would listen. Of course I don’t just read her the book, we role play sometimes pretending to be bible characters and i make some bible trivia games and it seems all fun to her. And if the GB thought the same way you do that children read less and want more animated pictures, what is the problem with animating the BIBLE CHARACTERS? There are so many BIBLE CHARACTERS that children can learn from. The whole Book Of Bible Stories can be turned into an animated cartoon series at least IT IS BASED ON THE BIBLE. My daughter and I are watching the same old Noah and David again and again but the Society hasn’t published much of that any more. They have focused on their fictional characters THAT THEY ALONE CREATED rather than something from the bible.

              About the downsizing that doesn’t have anything to do with Witnesses getting bored or losing interest in reading. The organization simply wants to save money, just like their recent announcement of downsizing again. Since the magazines were reduced into very thin leaflets, I stopped reading them as they contained little to no spiritual value at all. Almost everything taught now are so basic! Everything is about being a good person, a good witness, things that we ought to know already from the very beginning. It saddens me that I no longer look forward to new issues unlike I used to years and years ago.

              When you speak like that saying “This is the 21st century and it is different. Every century has its hallmarks, so much so that a historian can pinpoint it just by being given certain information characteristic for that era.” – It reminds me of my daughter’s born again teacher who told me that since we live in a modern world now, that religion should be modernized as well and rules and teachings should be revised as well, accepting things that were once not allowed, loosening morals a little bit and all that nonsense. I mean so what if we live in a modern world now, It is as if you are telling God: ” Jehovah I’m sorry but the world is modern now, our children don’t want to read about Moises or Jesus now, they want animated fictional characters like Caleb and Sophia!” Jehovah God does not change Malachi 3:6 so why should his people do? The bible’s advice never expires, that is what we teach the non-believers in the Bible Teach Book right? We are not part of this world so what is a common trend in this world shouldn’t be the trend in the congregations as well. As far as I’m concerned, schools still use books nowadays. If your children can’t stand The Book of Bible Stories and The Great Teacher which contains so many beautiful pictures for children, how can they stand their textbooks in school?

              You said: “Also, you might not realize, but many parents struggle with educating their children…Some parents reason, ‘better Caleb and Sophia than Dora the explorer. After all, aren’t Caleb and Sophia Jehovah’s Witnesses’?” -How can parents struggle teaching their children when there are so many “bible based” materials provided for them already? Can’t parents just sit for 30-45 minutes once or twice a week and discuss 1 or 2 chapters in the Book of Bible Stories? Is that really so hard that parents rather leave the parenting to the tv or ipad for children to watch 2 fictional characters? It is OUR JOB to do the teaching no matter how young our children are! That is what is written in the Bible. Cartoons like Dora the explorer are supposed to be educational, some involve a form of magic, some don’t and we should be careful but nevertheless children need to learn basic abc’s and counting as well so you can’t necessarily replace them with something that discusses religion.

              You said: “The GB’s intent however was never that it should replace age appropriate more in depth study with the children. As for how the adults interact with the cardboard cut outs, well, that’s just some people, lol.
              Regarding that, I would not say that these characters are in Jehovah’s
              temple. That part of Bethel is not designed for worship but for
              providing information about the world wide work to visitors and it is
              trying to be ‘family friendly’.”- Okay so what is GB’s intent then? And what do you mean by “that’s just how the adults interact with cardboard cut outs, that’s just some people” what is that supposed to mean? The organization itself promotes these fictional characters. It was their decision to put them in Bethels and conventions around the world. If there were extra spaces in kingdomhalls I don’t doubt they would put one on each as well. That move of the Governing Body only proves that they are in error as they are now promoting and putting those fictional character’s statues in BETHEL which literally means “THE HOUSE OF GOD” which it seems you are not aware of. Bethels are sacred places as all of them are DEDICATED TO JEHOVAH. They belong to Jehovah. No one’s images should be standing there much more if they are not even in the bible. I cant stress this any further. To be clear, The Governing Body created Caleb and Sophia, they were never sanctioned by God and aren’t mentioned in the Bible so that is already a violation by itself. No one has any right to put those statues there, in Jehovah’s house whatever the excuse! And you can’t blame the people taking photos with them alone, the branch offices provided them to be taken pictures with and even provides some props to be used. That is “cultivating idolatry” in Witnesses’ hearts and minds.

              You said: “As regards JWorg, I have never heard or seen the GB promote JWorg saying put it on cakes etc. You said “father in law wants to puke in disgust whenever he sees what some witnesses do”. And that’s exactly the point “what some witnesses do”. I must admit I think it’s ridiculous as well. But I am not going to judge other people’s conscience what it allows them to do. Perhaps in the near future, the GB will address this and advise caution and a regard for the conscience of others so they do not become a stumbling block”

              -Ok you said you have never seen the GB promote the JWORG logo but what are in these pictures below? Those are JWORG flags in a regional convention, next we see children holding flags of their own.Wow we have an official flag now. In the kitchen in some bethels and the staff in some conventions wear JWORG aprons, some parking attendants wear JWORG as well and now in one of our booths the brothers and sisters even have a uniform like they are some kind of Mormons except they wear blue and all wear JWORG pins! Then attached are pictures of Caleb and Sophia with “adults” in conventions, and in bethels. I thought you said that Caleb and Sophia were only for children? In another creepy image you see Governing Body Tony Morris with Caleb and Sophia released in jw.org.So who promotes wearing JWORG? Who promotes taking pictures with Caleb and Sophia? Are the people taking picture with them the only one to blame or the Governing Body as well? In one of the seemingly supply rooms in Bethel you would see Caleb’s image. Was that built for children? Does it look like a place where children hangout? If the GB wanted to address the idolatry going in the congregations, they would have said something by now. But instead condemning the inappropriate practice, they are obviously promoting it themselves!

              And what is so “light hearted” about Caleb and Sophia? Do you even watch them? It is better to be threatened to die in Armageddon rather to be killed simply because a child slept in the kingdomhall which is actually pretty normal for little children to do! That disgusting episode was even featured in a news article. The headline is: Jehovah’s Witnesses threaten kids who don’t pay attention in church with death

              Here is the link: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/02/watch-jehovahs-witnesses-threaten-kids-who-dont-pay-attention-in-church-with-death/#.VODunbSTjpM.facebook

              And you expect me to write the HQ? That is really funny. While I was being abused by the congregation elders and bethelites they did nothing but blame it on me instead and we’re talking about “criminal acts of child abuse” here and they didnt even lend me an ear. I called, I wrote not just to the HQ but to 2 other branches as well! And you expect them to listen to me now? I don’t want to waste my time and energy doing that. After all judgement begins with the house of God isn’t it? 1Peter 4:17

              American’s probably are not the only crazy ones. I have seen cakes originating from England as well and even in Latin countries.So it seems they are all crazy now huh? I have a compilation here but out of respect to this website I rather not post too many pictures. If you don’t believe me why dont you type JWORG cakes in google and see for yourself how many you will find? You can also follow several JW groups in facebook who regularly posts stuff like that.

              I think I have said my piece. If you still believe that that kind of idolatry is okay then you are free to believe what you wish. In the end we will all have to answer individually to Jehovah anyway.

            • ewatchman

              You rock, girl!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              “POW!…..

            • patri

              Check out the meanings of the names Caleb/Sophie. Sophie “wisdom” is modelled on the goddess of wisdom Isis who conceived her son Horus by her brother Osiris, the holy triad.
              The Greek word Baph-metis, baf’omet is likely a key reference to Sophie.
              The name Sophie is not mentioned once in the bible. Why pick such a name with pagan connections when there are so many beautiful biblical female names to choose from.
              Caleb on the other hand can be found in the bible and we all know the attitude the Israelites had towards dogs..
              The bible reveals that the numerous gods and their idols worshipped by the priests in gods temple were merely fronts for the demons. Jer 1:16

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I know Caleb is in the old testament In fact he is one of the spies that Moses sent To spy out the land of Canaan .As for Sophie I did not find her in the bible When i did a little research.
              However what you told me was interesting thank you for sharing.

            • Anna

              I would hope we ALL have a strong sense of what is right and wrong, and especially based on Bible principles. And then there is personal opinion. Of course there is nothing wrong with having an opinion, we all have one.

              In reply to some of the things you said,

              “It depends what example parents give their children. Children will only
              lose interest in books if you use Ipads and smartphones as your
              children’s baby sitter and of course technically since using gadgets are
              so efficient and fast, children get bored in the phase of usual
              activities like reading books”. That was exactly my point. Some parents are just not as good as others.

              “what is the problem with animating the BIBLE CHARACTERS?” I guess the problem would be that in order to fit those characters into current modern situations that children identify with and are familiar with, such as meetings, field service, keeping your room tidy etc. you would have to make up stories that are not in the Bible. In that case, could it be perceived as adding to what is not there? I would think using neutral, fictional, modern day family would be a safer bet. Despite that, there are many other activities on the JW website for children that does involve Bible characters. Caleb and Sophia are just one aspect, and if you notice, the videos ALWAYS make a reference to Jehovah or some Bible character.

              “If there were extra spaces in kingdomhalls I don’t doubt they would put one on each as well”. There is usually plenty of wall space though 🙂

              “That is “cultivating idolatry” in Witnesses’ hearts and minds”. I don’t agree with you. I quote from an article in the WT (Bible’s viewpoint):
              “According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, the Jews had an
              abundance of images associated with their worship “and these
              representations were honored, reverenced, and venerated.”
              As examples, that encyclopedia cites the numerous engravings of fruits, flowers, and animals that adorned the temple in Jerusalem. Contrary to what the New Catholic Encyclopedia asserts,
              faithful Jews did not venerate any of the engravings or figures
              associated with the temple. In fact, nowhere in the Bible do we read of a faithful Israelite using an image for worship”.

              The same applies to cardboard cut outs of Caleb and Sophia. Surely taking pictures with them does not constitute worship any more that taking a picture with anything or anyone else? I think implying that doing so would encourage idolatry is not giving enough credit to the intelligence and spirituality of those friends that do it. Silly perhaps, but surely not idolatrous.

              As for the jworg logo. We have both agreed that the purpose of it is to advertise the website. So if there are flags in front of convention centers, that is the intent. When children carry these, that is the same intent. Also, one other reason is to make people easily identifiable with whom or what they are affiliated with. Hence the logo on parking attendants etc. They are not just any parking attendants, they are OUR parking attendants. The same goes for the uniform at book fairs. If you have ever been to one, you will notice that most people belonging to a particular stall will have some kind of easily identifiable attire.This makes perfect sense as there are a lot of visitors milling around and it makes it easier for them to find the appropriate person for information. As for aprons with logos when serving our own, and those logos on pioneer cakes etc?….Well that makes it more like a brand name, not my cup of tea, but still not idolatry.

              “And what is so “light hearted” about Caleb and Sophia? Do you even watch them? It is better to be threatened to die in Armageddon rather to be killed simply because a child slept in the kingdomhall which is actually pretty normal for little children to do! That disgusting episode was even featured in a news article. The headline is: Jehovah’s Witnesses threaten kids who don’t pay attention in church with death”.

              Well, no, we don’t watch Caleb and Sophia because unlike yours, my child is past that age. I would just like to mention though, Sophia, who was dozing, is not so little. Then I thought the illustration with Noah was pretty clear…

              “I have seen cakes originating from England” Yes, that is why I said mainland Europe. The British culture in some respects is very similar to American culture, I know, I’ve lived there. But again, in my opinion, cakes and paraphernalia with jworg logo constitutes merchandising and not idolatry. Those who buy such merchandise, wear such merchandise or bake it and eat it, do not venerate, salute, bow down, pray to nor admire it. They wear it and use it because they are proud to be affiliated with what it advertises. Nothing more nothing less. But of course that is my opinion, but then I figure that is how those who do these things also view it.

              However, I know there is no point trying to convince you as you are pretty much set in your view and “a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”. So I guess I am replying for the sake of other readers too.

              One thing though that I do find strange from reading a comment you made to another poster, is that you let your child decide whether they wanted to go to a birthday party or not. Is that not abdicating responsibility as a parent? I mean would you also let your child decide whether they wanted to go to a party where you knew there was alcohol and drugs? Or for that matter decide anything which you believed was spiritually dangerous or morally wrong? Unless of course you don’t think there is anything wrong with birthday parties in the first place….

              But as you say in your conclusion: We will all have to answer to Jehovah individually. So really, as respects what others do, as long as we do our part, best to our knowledge of the Bible and it’s principles, we have nothing to worry about. And, Jehovah’s will and purpose will be accomplished no matter what…

            • Volcanic

              “……. I would not say that these characters are in Jehovah’s temple. That
              part of Bethel is not designed for worship but for providing information
              about the world wide work to visitors and it is trying to be “family
              friendly” “.
              I’m unsure about that explanation simply because there should be no difference between the part designed for worship & the part designed for visitors. Surely that is giving a two-faced view of what JWs are all about?

            • Anna

              “Surely that is giving a two-faced view of what JWs are all about?”
              The problem is, people on here are dissecting things that are not even there. Most visitors are JWs anyway, so they understand what its about and (most) have no problem with Caleb and Sophia cardboard cut outs. As regards visitors who are not JW, well, they are there to learn about how the organization operates, especially the preaching aspect of it. If they are interested in Bible knowledge, then they will visit a Kingdom Hall and sit in at the meetings. I do not see what is two faced about that.
              In any case, JWs worship is a way of life, it doesn’t stop when they leave the “temple”. So whether they are engaging in spiritual things, or are playing ball at the beach or having fun at a party, they wish to do all things to God’s glory. Including fun things. 1Cor. 10:31

            • Volcanic

              perhaps a better translation would be ‘double standards’ rather than two-faced in their approach (two-faced in English as in double faced in Español) .

              I am dissecting this part of your comment because you put it on here so it is admissible within the discussion at hand.
              If most of the visitors are JWs anyway what is the point of trying to appear family friendly, surely that is a given fact?

              It is almost as if someone attends meetings, studies, goes on the ministry & behaves perfectly as a Witness but yet, when they arrive home they put on loud music & behave in a slightly more ‘worldly’ manner in case the neighbours are watching, so that they do not appear unapproachable to the general public – that is verging on serving two masters!

              If, however, some visitors are not JWs then surely it is most important to have the whole theme as perfect as could be, whether it is in the part designed for worship or the part designed for visitors, all should be the same.

              However which way it is discussed cardboard cartoon figure cut-outs have no place in a centre of worship & in specific particular the House of Jehovah, they belong in childrens TV cartoon programmes or Disneyland parks.

              I do not agree that Caleb & Sophie have anything to do with Gods glory in any shape or form.

              Please refer to Daisys comment regarding the pagan connotations to their names for at least one of my objections as to their use in Jehovahs worship.

            • “cardboard cartoon figure cut-outs have no place in a centre of worship & in specific particular the House of Jehovah”?

            • Anna

              I do not understand how your illustration of “behaving in a ‘worldly’ manner in case the neighbours are watching, so that they do not appear unapproachable to the general public” is the same as using Caleb and Sophia. It is for JW children primarily. Nothing to do with “impressing” the general public. And when I go on jw.org, I do not see any disrespect for God’s glory in using cartoons to help children grasp Bible truths.

              Caleb and Sophia cardboard cut outs do not offend me as they do you, so I am probably not the right person to talk to. Maybe you should take this up with someone in Bethel?
              As for their names, I think you are reading far too much into it. In different countries their names are different as well. Usually, the most common names are picked, regardless of what their “origin” is. In English, Sophia, in particular, is a very likeable name and is the most common right now. It derives from the Greek word “sophos” meaning wisdom. And if you want to get really specific, then the word sofia – wisdom (σοφία) appears in the Greek translation of the Bible in many instances, for example in Paul’s letter to the Colossians Ch 1 v 9 “That is also why from the day we heard of it, we have never stopped praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom (sofia, sophia) and spiritual comprehension”. So you see, sofia, (sophia) is in the Bible.

            • I remember the “Paradise Lost” book as a kid, before the “Bible Stories” book came along in 1978. The “Great Teacher” book was cool too, although I always used to get my parents saying to me, when something went wrong after me being naughty, “obedience protects you” (the most read chapter of aforementioned book)!

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Granted the watchtower is not worshiping Jehovah through these wooden statues ,However they are creating / Promoting idol worship were the children are concerned by using these fictional characters Caleb and Sophia . keep yourself from Idols John 5:21

          • Jonah Peter Paul

            You should see the proud parents and children wearing bags, clothes and using accessories with these fictitious’ character’s faces on them!

          • I wouldn’t go that far mate. It’s more like kids having Star Wars toys or action figures or of their favourite cartoons. Probably a lot of JW parents won’t let their children have such stuff so this is like a replacement. But to call it promoting idol worship is a bit too far. If you’re talking about the GB though, then I fully agree!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              You are entitled to your opinion because Jehovah has given you freedom of choice but please keep in mind, you will be held accountable for your choices just like the 3000 who perished in Moses day for their bad choices. Exodus 32:1-35.https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/exodus/32/#v2032028

            • Indeed we will but I believe in a merciful God, the same God who showed mercy to murderers like Kings David and Mannasseh so I’m guessing I won’t be put to death for having Star Wars toys as a kid if that’s what you’re implying. Many churches, including the JWs paint Jehovah as a vengeful God but his judgment is always balanced with mercy and he only destroys wicked people. If we go by the WTS definition of God, both you and I will be destroyed for being on sites like this!!!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yeah Joe, because the WT use fear tactics we forget that Jehovah’s judgment is tempered with mercy and he only destroys the wicked….that’s a step up from just being bad and you’re also right making the point that both Christendom and our religion paint a picture of God just destroying people all over the place like some mass murderer….you’ve got to be wicked before he acts. But can I just say that Bkly Kevin did not mean to be judgemental in his post to you. I think he cares very much and he will remind us of scripture that’s appropriate. Bklyn Kevin is very humble and has immense bible knowledge which he shares immediately with any of us that are struggling to find a relevant scripture or piece of information. Also at the moment he’s having to mind his little grandson who’s had an operation while his daughter has to work, so at the moment it can’t be easy for him. I know that you might shoot me down in flames and that’s okay and I’m sure Bklyn Kevin doesn’t need a girl sticking up for him but he’s a lovely kind man and I just have to say it….just don’t want us two to fall out as I’ve only just gotten to know you and you come across a straight talking nice guy with a sense of humour.

            • Hi Bev, I’d like to think that I don’t shoot anyone down in flames and I certainly appreciate your reply. Thanks for the feedback. I presume he’s from Brooklyn then, going by his name so he can’t be that bad as Brooklyn is home to some great music clubs! 🙂
              I will pray to ask that Jah helps him and his family out during these difficult times.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Aww. Thanks Joe, for being understanding. Yeah, Kevin is from Brooklyn. He’s such a lovely, kind, humble, spiritual person and that’s such a lovely thing to say that you’ll offer a prayer for him and his family. You like the great music clubs in Brooklyn, well I like their fabulous brownstone buildings and there appears to be real vibe in that area.

            • Burt Reynolds

              This is only my opinion, but I agree with Kevin on this and it is more complex that Star Wars figures, and this is not what Kevin is implying. The reason being that though Jehovah is merciful, he is merciful on his terms and not our understanding of that mercy. Thus Jehovah may provide for the life of a prostitute as in the example we had in the last article, but may not forgive the fornicator. What is the thinking here? I don’t know. And the bible does not tell us, maybe for this reason. We have to align ourselves with the scripture in tandem with a good conscience within ourselves based on the scripture and not on our hopes of or for, mercy. The two are quite different. This is why we cannot bargain our sins with the sins of others like the watchtower as you note. Let me put it this way. Would you steal a loaf of bread for yourself if you were starving? Knowing that Jehovah denounces stealing. ( He who is faithful in little, is also faithful in much). Now, would you steal of loaf of bread for a defenceless starving child? What is the difference? That is your answer.

            • Good points.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              We can’t afford to be complacent the race isn’t over yet!.
              Especially concerning our children.

              Deuteronomy 6:7
              These words that I am commanding you today must be on your heart,
              and you must inculcate them in your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up. .
              The tribulations is just around the corner with that being said, I will adhere to my bible trained conscience and abstain from any form and shape or size of Idol worship.

              Fictional characters like Caleb and Sophia in my opinion are nothing more than inspired expressions from demons that will subvert / undermined pure warship that belongs to Jehovah.

              2 Timothy 4:3.
              For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. [perhaps fictional characters like Caleb and Sophia]?

              1 Timothy 4:1
              However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons.
              2 by means of the hypocrisy of men / [governing body] who speak lies, whose “conscience is seared” as with a branding iron.

            • Thanks for your input Kevin. How’s your grandkid doing by the way?

            • sally

              I am going to put this in here….as I am not sure where else to put it! I had a bible study tonight for the first time in weeks. I went for dinner to my study sister and her elder husbands house. I have not been “myself” for a while and I had to sit in the car and pray to Jehovah to help me through it as I have so many issues which started before coming to e watchman but have obviously got bigger with my new found knowledge. We are doing the second study book and started chapter 4 “Obeying Authority”. For anyone that knows, this comes down to obeying the persons chosen by Jehovah to take the lead in the organisation, several scriptures were used and Moses was used which is why I am putting this comment here. Moses was defied by the Israelite and Korah instigated a rebellion against his authority and we know where that got them. This was what we studied tonight. I had to answer questions saying to be submissive to the GB and Elders and accept the discipline and counsel, scriptures were used from the book to back up this command. The book says that disobeying and siding with “disendents” only ended up one way. It was a very very difficult study, I was wooden and gave short answers, asked no questions really and just, well struggled. It was obvious, and I was asked how I was doing spiritually. I think they just think I am losing interest when nothing could be further from the truth. I would love, if someone would help, me prepare some scriptures of my own to bring to the table for next weeks study that I have agreed to have on the next few paragraphs as we are still on the same subject. I know there are ones out there but of course the ones that are to be read out from the study book fit the narrative of obeying authority. Sorry for the rant, having a complete head hurt tonight!

            • ewatchman

              This might make your head hurt even more, but in the 23 chapter of Matthew Jesus told his disciples to obey the Pharisees, even though in the very same breath he said that the Pharisees were hypocrites and blind guides. Why, then, did Jesus tell them to obey the Pharisees? Because it was not time to disobey them. However, after Jesus’ death and resurrection then it was time. The apostles demonstrated that when they were ordered to stop preaching about Jesus. They refused, saying that they had to obey God as their ruler and not men.

              The day will come for JW’s to break ranks with the WT. That will be when Christ returns. But until then, what would do you suppose Jesus might say?

            • Leonard k

              that answer to that question is Obvious to me Robert I restart my bible studies tomorrow at the kingdom hall with an elder I will strive to become baptized fly under the radar do everything in my power to plant as many seeds as possible.

              Matthew 10:16

              16 “Look! I am sending you out as sheep among wolves; so prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves.

              this can apply even within the watchtower hence the man of lawlessness

              https://youtu.be/3WZXOfZ0l3I

            • Burt Reynolds

              Good point Leonard. Please send some wolves to my door….I don’t want to go to them yet….

            • Leonard k

              lol.

            • Leonard k

              Matthew 10:16

              16 “Look! I am sending you out as sheep among wolves; so prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Thanks. That’s what I call service!

            • sally

              Thank you for reminding me of the Pharisees and the disciples plight Robert. Yes Jesus would say the exact same thing as he told them. I have done a lot of reading here today and soul searching and will continue to have a bible study and attend meetings however hard it is/gets. I believe i know the way forward now.

            • Volcanic

              we’ll have an FB chat, Sally. I’m not sure which book you are studying but I’m certain we can find some scriptures together & maybe Bklyn Kevin might help out also

          • Burt Reynolds

            Hello Kevin, No they are not worshipping Jehovah directly through the medium of these cartoon characters, but they are dragging the level of worship down to a commercial, vacuous level and which is holding the attention of children away from Jehovah. The whole thing is a total abdication of the spiritual values of the scriptures. And yes, they are idolised by the children and to whom and what are they offering praise? An idea, not a fact, a facsimile , with no substance. It seems to me a distraction with as great a power to mislead as any golden calf. And come to that, the money collected, through sisters jewelry and other ‘precious things’ to make this tv venture, is exactly the way the idolatrous Israelites gathered the substance for their golden calf. What a lesson for us in the subtlety of Satan and at the same time, the infinite patience of Jehovah . There is hope for me yet!

            • Volcanic

              funnily enough my thoughts exactly on the ‘golden calf’, Burt. Maybe they could say it is innocent & only a little, small, cute & tiny golden calf just for the childrens entertainment so it is forgivable (I wonder if that is the way Aaron reasoned back in the day?)

              What about the Caleb & Sophie video where they are encouraged to tell their schoolmates that their mother should not be living in sin with their father? Unnecessary!

              I totally disagree with the whole need for the C & S videos, there is enough material in the Bible without resorting to made up figures, particularly when you read Daisys comment about the origin of the names.

              Quite frankly some of the childrens ‘worldly’ videos about cleaning the room etc are very innocent as long as parents are watchful of the material, so there is no need to add to them.

              I also have my own thoughts about the JW Org flag, maybe a bit nit picky, but are our children encouraged to NOT adhere to any flags? If so, then why is it acceptable to have our own flags for the Org? How would they explain that to their headmaster when they are dragged in front of him to explain?

            • Burt Reynolds

              The issue of the watchtower in getting children involved in adult issues through cartoons such as living in sin is putting parenting pressure on the child in both sexual and moral reasoning, and which any child should not have to contend with at the proposed age for these cartoons. It is in fact, sexual abuse and yet another sign of laxity in the moral and biblical reasoning of the watchtower. In fact, the child taking on parental roles in this fashion, is an ‘evidence indicator of abuse’ in the child protection investigation process. The watchtower is not having a good day in my mind at present and so I had better stop there before I take on volcanic proportions!!

            • 1914for100Alex

              Do they want JW kids getting beat up in school?!? It was bad enough getting made fun of for not celebrating birthdays and holidays, but to involve kids in their friend’s parent’s marital status??? Bad idea Watchtower.

            • Burt Reynolds

              The sad fact is 1915, is that the children are taught that persecution brings them kudos in the congregation, as with those that have died under persecution or false watchtower reasoning as in Malawi. What is even more sad, is that the parents are often blinded by watchtower teaching as to the stress their children are under. If they all just stuck to the bible, only the persecution borne of biblical teaching would need their endurance according to thier maturity of spirit.

            • 1914for100Alex

              Just checked out their flag. How cute. Blue and white…just like the U.N.’s.

            • Volcanic

              oh my, so true! The plot thickens

            • 1914for100Alex
            • Bklyn Kevin

              Well said Burt. thank you.

              Back then when Moses went up to the mountains to receive the two tablets / ten commandments which was further instructions on how they were to conduct themselves in obedience to Jehovah, they suddenly grew impatient and lost their faith in their grand creator Jehovah who just delivered them from the hands of the Egyptians with miracles never before seen but instead of being patient and faithful and waiting on Jehovah’s direction, the people along with Aaron decided how they were going to worship and so Aaron forged a golden calf, and said”
              This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.

              Now the same can be said about the governing body who have forged a golden calf / watchtower as it were, due to their lack of patience and faith , they the governing body have collected unsaid amounts of gold as it were from the people and dictated how they were going to worship Jehovah through their golden calf / watchtower with festivals of erroneous prophecy.

              Exodus 32:
              5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. Then Aaron called out: “There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow.”
              6 So they got up early on the next day and began offering up burnt offerings and presenting communion sacrifices. After that the people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.
              7 Jehovah now said to Moses: “Go, descend, because your people, whom you led up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves.+
              8 They have quickly deviated from the way I commanded them to go.+ They have made for themselves a statue* of a calf, and they keep bowing down to it and sacrificing to it and saying, ‘This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.’Read more > https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/exodus/32/

            • Burt Reynolds

              How true is that! It is presumptuous I know, but what an honour it would be to come down from this, Jehovah’s spiritual mountain to smash the golden calf and deliver Jehovah’s truths. I think I would be fortunate just to do the sweeping up!

        • Merton

          I can just imagine the Apostle Paul endorsing this kind of behaviour. To think he risked life and limb to preach the good news and to support the congregations and the best the watchtower can come up with is these cartoons which contain little to no spiritual value. This is getting more and more ridiculous. We must be close to Jesus coming back because I don’t know how much more Jehovah’s name can be dragged through the dirt!

          • Jonah Peter Paul

            Some accuse the Witnesses of imitating the Pentecostals. If you check youtube you would see some videos of concerts done on the Kingdom Hall itself while brothers and sisters play the drums and sing and dance “worldly” songs on stage. Then they have this “Happy” song that the whole Bethel family danced in a seemingly official video that Bethel released. JWs must be very bored so now the WT is letting have a little fun. Let’s not even talk about the worldwide costume parties and competitions. We agree. This is too much. We can’t wait for Jehovah to wake them all up!

            • Don’t get me started on the “Happy” dance. I fully support that as I can imagine that the R&F bethelites work very hard so they deserve their chill out time.
              Actually as JWs we have really sprouted from the Adventists, like the Christadelphians and the Ecclesia of Christ. As for imitating other faiths, I thought that as soon as JWB started up. I still remember WT articles slating other religions for their cheap attempts at using the media (first TV and later Internet) for their evangelising but now we are doing the same? Pot calling the Kettle?
              Then there is the music they used in the last video at this year’s (2016) Regional/District Convention. It wasn’t composed by the WTS but rather by a group called EPICA and the song is called ETERNAL FLAME (no, not the Bangles one, sorry) and they used the version with a choir, no less. That’s probably old news to most of you but if not or if you don’t want to take my word for it, then hear it here (don’t you just love English?!):
              http://search.audiomachine.com/tracks/?q=eternal+flame

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yet Joe, they wouldn’t let Prince write any songs for them,(I read that somewhere, if it’s true), and they’ve also got George Benson, considered one of the best guitarists in the world as well Prince’s musician friend…surely they can contribute some fabulous songs to Jehovah! When I was at the KH last week we closed with a dire song and what made it even worse was that a sister behind literally sounded like a cat being strangled! My ears were bleeding! Lol.

            • Prince’s musician friend? I think you’re referring to Sly & The Family Stone’s bass guitarist Larry Graham. He invented the Funk style way of playing bass and for which I’m eternally grateful as I love Funk music.
              I remember in the 80s a brother from our cong gave us a tape with some remixed Kingdom Songs on (80s style mind you) and they were such an improvement on some and fun alternatives to others. The WTS soon stamped that out though, which is a shame as there’s nothing wrong with songs that praise God being written in a modern style.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Joe, I’m smiling at the intro to your post. I was writing that post in a rush and could not for the life of me remember Larry Graham’s name even though I knew it because of course Sly and the Family Stone was one of my favourites funk bands back in the day, along with Brothers Johnson who was one of the best Bass player going…maybe giving Larry a run for his money, Parliament, Rick James, Ohio Players, Curtis Mayfield. Of course I can’t match you for music as you come across as real Funk and music aficionado…a purist. Here in Manchester we were massively into our Funk, Soul and Jazz Funk music but as time went I stopped buying music and then I gave up being a party animal, but one of my beat friends who also became a witness after me still has most of his record collection because his best friend was DJ on the music scene and they were always buying the latest imports from a well known record shop at that time called, Spin Inn…everyone into their music went there. That was radical remixing some of the Kingdom songs…bet some of it was brilliant!! I agree about some of the songs being written in a modern style…Prince and Larry would’ve done an amazing job with some of those songs…some of them are like dirges! Oh,well, never mind! I’ve just noticed I’ve referred to my friend as my ‘beat’ friend, which should be best friend….I’m sick of this spellchecker ….it’s always getting it wrong! Lol.

            • I’ve never been to Manchester centre believe it or not. I’ve been to the assembly hall in Northenden to do a refurb but that doesn’t count. Nottingham used to have a good music scene too in my younger days. The local vinyl shop there was “Selectadisc”.
              Other bands I like are Dag (American Funk band), Alison Moyet (home grown talent), Kraftwerk so as you ca see a varied music taste.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Joe, you do have a sense of humour as you’ve made me laugh already…come on…Dougal..classic. Lol. Yeah, I used to go to Northenden…it used to be an old cinema and when you did the refurb you kept it in the Art Deco style that it used to be…love anything Art Deco and from that time. I used to love the assemblies there…just enough association and spiritual food without overkill. Can’t believe you’ve never been to Manchester…you are a real music aficionado! My taste in music is eclectic too..used to love Talking Heads and the B52,s but I was told the B52,s was inappropriate when I was studying all those years ago so I had to bin them…still love them though…I’m also a secret rock chick…love rock music, some classic music too, I’ll listen to anything! Any genre!

            • Love Shack, Rock Lobster… A girl after my own heart. You see, there are some very cultural JWs amongst us! 😉 x

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yeah, they can’t call us for that…we’re a VERY cultured lot! Ha!

            • LW

              The group was Audiomachine, not epica.

        • At least there’s none of Tony Morris (my parents were like my grandparents with no imagination in naming their sons! Sorry but I refuse to say “the third” after his name.)
          Imagine a cardboard cutout of HIM (hmm reminds me of Les Dawson’s mother-in-law jokes).
          I heard a talk by “Tight Pants Tony” on how basically parents weren’t spiritual enough if they didn’t take their children to visit Bethel but they had taken them to a theme park! There’s not that much to see inside a normal Bethel (especially if it’s one of the Branches that doesn’t handle the printing work) so I suppose they want to make it exciting for the kids.

          • Burt Reynolds

            It is an obtuse manner of thinking for Tony Morris to make that comparison. There is absolutely nothing to see at bethel. You may just as well go to a car showroom. They like to portray it as the hub of Jehovah’s ‘organisation’ but it is nothing more than a printing works though its symbolism in the scripture is clear. Though the magazines carry the pith of the Word, it is only the content of the magazine when it is in harmony with jehovahs word, that makes it holy….but that can be had anywhere one finds a copy. What is really behind Tony Morris’s jibe, is the praise of men, for them to come and see where the governing body reside and perhaps meet one of the Holy Ones who direct Jehovah’s organisation who might ‘accidently’ be walking by. It is the search for Kudos from haughty men. Even at the time of the temple at Jerusalem, people went not to the temple per se, but went to what was inside the temple, ergo, teaching. But then, as is now, there is little teaching to be had at either ‘temple’. Further, the temple in those days was built to reflect Jehovah’s magnificience, to embellish the teaching through a place of glory in a way we could understand as we can neither see or comprehend the glory of Jehovah, but we do understand precious metal and scented cedar wood. Unfortunately, the ‘precious’ metal at bethel, has become the governing body, and the temple, a greasy printing works.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Disgraceful. The watchtower are abasing the word of Jehovah to a cartoon and trivialising the urgent message. They have taken leave of their senses. This is no worse than the subliminals in the magazines, in fact, it is the very embodiment of the subliminals in that they mock the gravity of the word. Disgusting. I’m offended.

        • Leonard k

          i did not even know about this? i am shocked!

          John 18:36

          36 Jesus answered: “My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”

          2 Thessalonians 2:3

          3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

          Revelation 18:4

          4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.

  • e.v.g

    It seems harmless, but is not consistent with Romans 12:1-2, definitively, we must be careful with everything.

  • D34D 4L!3N

    One can manipulate a dollar by folding it enough to fit what they are imagining is part of a conspiracy. Ones imagination can formulate just about any object from clouds. Also, burn marks on potato chips can resemble what subliminal imagery your imagination desires. Faces seem to be common when staring at kinds of abstracts. Being on guard one can be suspicious but we want to make sure the impression of our imagination doesn’t get the best of us.

  • D34D 4L!3N

    One can manipulate a dollar by folding it enough to fit what they are
    imagining is part of a conspiracy. Ones imagination can formulate just
    about any object from clouds. Also, burn marks on potato chips can
    resemble what subliminal imagery your imagination desires. Faces seem
    to be common when staring at kinds of abstracts. Being on guard one can
    be suspicious but we want to make sure the impression of our imagination
    doesn’t get the best of us.

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