In the Beginning

//In the Beginning

This article appears in BELIEFS of Jehovah’s Witnesses category.

Although it is utterly beyond the capacity of humans to comprehend, there is a Being who has always existed. He had no beginning. He is the only person who was never born. He is not a creature. He will never have an end either. He simply exists. For good reason he is called the King of eternity. God.

It is simply impossible to wrap your mind around —to use the common jargon —how someone could just Be. But just because we cannot fathom the unfathomable or comprehend the incomprehensible does not mean that it cannot be true.

To illustrate the point, a few generations ago it would have been deemed impossible for men to walk on the moon or to transmit sound and images by means of invisible waves of energy, and many, many other things that are now commonplace were once beyond the imagination of most people.

Rather than stumbling over what we cannot understand though, consider what we know.

Everything and everyone in our physical realm had a beginning. Scientists now believe that the universe, in all its vastness and complexity, began from a tiny point of origin. Some say the entire cosmos originated from a super dense, teaspoon-size, dollop of matter and exploded in what is euphemistically called the Big Bang.

Whether or not scientists want to admit it the modern theory of the origin of the universe basically confirms the truthfulness of the opening words of the Bible – “In the beginning…”

So, that’s a start in our consideration of the truth.

But here is where it gets a little tricky. The beginning described in the book of Origin, or Genesis, was not the only beginning, or even the first. Genesis 1:1 is merely in reference to the beginning of the material universe of the heavens and earth — the material being atoms and all sorts of sub-atomic particles that make up the cosmos of which we are a part. But prior to that beginning there was another beginning —the beginning of the creation in the superior, non material realm —a world inhabited by a variety of spirit persons. The creation of the invisible world preceded the making of the material heavens and earth. That beginning is what the opening words of the New Testament book of John is referring to, which states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God.”

In regards to the inhabitants of the invisible realm the Creator once posed a question to a man, asking him: “Brace yourself, please, like a man; I will question you, and you inform me. Where were you when I founded the earth? Tell me, if you think you understand. Who set its measurements, in case you know, or who stretched a measuring line across it? Into what were its pedestals sunk, or who laid its cornerstone,  When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, and all the sons of God began shouting in applause?” —Job 38

The sons of God who witnessed the creation of the earth obviously were not humans. The reference to the “morning stars” is intended to convey that the sons of God are heavenly persons, otherwise known as angels. So, when did they come into existence? Was there a very first heavenly son of God? Surely, there must have been.

Although the casual reader and those indoctrinated in trinitarianism may not grasp it, John 1:1 could not possibly apply to the King of eternity, since he had no beginning. The beginning is in relation to an entity called the Word. His apostle John wrote concerning him at 1John 1:1: “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have observed and our hands have felt, concerning the word of life…”

Since God had no beginning “in the beginning” is meaningless in relation to him. As is obviously the case in connection to the creation of the heavens and the earth “in the beginning,” the same phrase in connection to the Word must relate to a starting point of reference to God’s ungraspable eternal existence. To better grasp the intended meaning of the beginning, consider Revelation 3:14. It states, simply: “These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.”

The Amen is a title given to Jesus, similar to his title “the Word.” And the context of Revelation 3:14 clearly indicates Jesus to be the one spoken of as “the faithful and true witness” and “the beginning of the creation by God.”

In Greek the phrase “the beginning” used in Revelation is the same phrase used at John 1:1 and translated “in the beginning.” With no ambiguity Revelation reveals that not only did Jesus have a pre-human existence he was the very first creation of God. Thus, the expression the Word “was in the beginning with God” should be understood to mean the Word was the beginning of God’s creative endeavors, which have continued from that beginning to the present.

Since God has always existed and there are no other non-created persons, that means he was alone forever prior to his becoming the Creator. Again, it is impossible to comprehend how someone could simply exist as an uncreated Being, but setting that aside, we can understand that God did begin creating; hence, “in the beginning.”

The Christian letter to the Colossians harmonizes with this understanding. Paul explained that Jesus “is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.”

Although some may object to the insertion of the adjective “other” in the text, it is perfectly within the parameters of acceptable translation since it is implied that the son did not create himself and in fact was merely an agent “through” whom Jehovah created everything else. The firstborn has the distinction of being the only person/thing that God personally, directly brought into existence, which is why Jesus is also called the only-begotten Son of God. All other sons were begotten indirectly, “through him” —through the firstborn.

This partnership in creation is exhibited in Genesis, where God said to an unnamed person: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness…”

Although unnamed throughout the Hebrew Scriptures that were written before the Word appeared in the flesh as the man Jesus, it is apparent that the Word is speaking in the eighth chapter of Proverbs —personified as repository of the wisdom of God. Referring to his own beginning, the beginning of wisdom, it is written: “Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. From ancient times I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth, when there were no springs overflowing with water. Before the mountains were set in place, before the hills, I was brought forth, when he had not yet made the earth and its fields or the first clods of earth’s soil. When he prepared the heavens, I was there; when he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters, when he established the clouds above, when he founded the fountains of the deep, when he set a decree for the sea that its waters should not pass beyond his order, when he established the foundations of the earth, then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time; I rejoiced over his habitable earth, and I was especially fond of the sons of men.”

Although the eighth chapter of Proverbs personifies wisdom, it is apparent that “wisdom” is an actual person. That is evident since wisdom rejoiced before God and was particularly fond of humanity. Could a mere quality rejoice or express fondness for something? Of course not. Whereas, the angels were merely described as observers of the creation of the earth, “Wisdom” actually participated in creation, being “beside him as a master worker.” That being true, and the fact that God produced his master worker “as the beginning of his way,” the eighth chapter of Proverbs confirms that the Word had a beginning —a birth, the firstborn of all of God’s achievements.

Understanding Christ’s unique role in God’s eternal purpose is essential. We cannot really know God without understanding what took place “in the beginning” with the Word. Jehovah’s Witnesses are privileged to know the truth. In that respect we have conquered the wicked one. 

It is Satan’s intention to deceive us. One way in which the Devil seeks to do that is by promoting the lie that Jesus is God. He has trained and deployed a virtual army of theologians to twist and distort the simple truth about the relationship between Jehovah and his firstborn Son. That is why the apostle John wrote to the precious few who know the truth about he that is from the beginning.

“I am writing you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for the sake of his name. I am writing you, fathers, because you have come to know him who is from the beginning. I am writing you, young men, because you have conquered the wicked one. I write you, young children, because you have come to know the Father. I write you, fathers, because you have come to know him who is from the beginning. I write you, young men, because you are strong and the word of God remains in you and you have conquered the wicked one.”

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2016-12-08T15:10:08+00:00 July 5th, 2016|Beliefs|36 Comments
  • Ed(the other Ed)

    Wow! That was a trip. I’m going to give this some thought today at work, Thank you!

  • Burt Reynolds

    In the beginning….my favourite book of the bible, full of mystery and wonder. To understand eternity is impossible for us who can only just grasp the fourth dimension. However, if we move away from the theory that time is fluid, I.e., that it moves, and assume just for a minute that time is still and it is us that move through it, then other issues pertaining to time can begin to become plausible…..such as of course, eternity. But to do that, we have to consider the substance of Jehovah and what a spirit form may consist of and of course, that the (static) energy of time may be an element of such. The evolutionists say that everything is possible in time, well it may be, except of course the crossing of kinds and creation. If we consider time as a railway encircling the globe, and we are on the train, then we can see how time may appear to be moving forward, but is in fact stationary. This also suggests….and this is pure conjecture…that the omnipresence of Jehovah as always in existence and everywhere at the same time. Thus knowing where each sparrow falls to earth is not simply a comforting illustration of concern. It also puts a different perspective on life in that we may be lent the energy of life and consciousness, but that the energy of life returns to Jehovah on our death, the omnipresent energy…life… being, well, omnipresent! So therefore, if Jehovah saw fit to eradicate the sodomites, was he taking their life, or their consciousness? One has more gravity than the other, but it does perhaps suggest a conjecture as to how Jehovah can resurrect a person with their memory, as was the case of Jesus and also through Jesus, Lazarus. If gravity can bend light, or in other words, if a force can act on the absence of darkness to reflect what we cannot otherwise see, and that time and light speed are relative to each other, then That puts a different perspective on eternity. Time is relative to those that perceive it and surely it has more than one facet as we perceive it as moving more slowly, the further we are away from a source of gravity….so much so, we could look into the past as it happens, were we to move far enough away. Taken to its extreme, from one relevant point, time may appear still. Thus we have the concept of eternity. So, I may well be talking rubbish, but nonetheless, this is one reason why I love the book of Genesis. What wonders await us!

    • Song of Hannah

      Burt I thoroughly enjoyed your thoughts about this. One thing too, that helps me grasp the concept of Jehovah’s existing forever, is that he himself is the author, or inventor of “time”. Since this is the case, surely he himself would not be bound to, or subject to, his own creation.

      • Burt Reynolds

        Hello Hannah, that’s what I meant, it may be a part of his facets, of who he is. Dimensions are a compound. The more you have, the more there must be as apparently you cannot have the one without assuming another. It’s a physics thing. But who knows? Jehovah is the maker of laws and perhaps they keep on ‘evolving’ if I can use that word, because of each other…..perpetual creation. Now there’s a thought! Have you seen the dance of Jupiter yet on YouTube (or would it be your tube? English is another infinity. ) it shows the way the moons of Jupiter revolve around the planet. A day is only 10 hours on Jupiter. It’s all the info coming back from Juno . Absolutely marvellous. What mathematical laws there are!

        • Jordan Seager

          A very late reply, I like to browse 🙂 This is so deep that it boils my brain. Like a CPU that can’t handle the processing. But as humans, our intelligence can only go so far, in a scientific way, trying to understand how Jehovah exists forever is an unknown science beyond our compression. The only way is to ask Jehovah when we finally meet them in person. Quite frightening ‘in a good way’.

    • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

      Jesus said, that we were created from nothing. Only Jehovah can make nothing into something. The scriptures say things like Jehovah is like electrum or a description anything presous that emits light.but that is not the case .for we do not know what Jehovah is made of.and from everything I’ve ever read, No where does it say Jehovah is omnipresent.because the heavens cannot contain him..

      • Burt Reynolds

        Hello Revv, as I noted in my offering, it is conjecture… Who knows for sure….but nontheless, it is fun to hypothesise as it is in the character of man so to do. However, I based my conjecture on the bible and you will find the basis for this conjecture in the following: psalm 48.7: 33.13/14:46.1. Isaiah 57.15: 49.12. Nahum 1.3: 2chronicles 20.37. Daniel5.5/6: Colossians 2.19 etc etc. Omnipresence refers to not just a spiritual presence but an omnipresence also in terms of knowledge. If Jehovah reads the hearts of all, then it is reasonable to assume that. Genesis also supports this where it says that the spirit of Jehovah moved above the surface of the waters…waters in translation being plural. Though Christ said that we were made from nothing, this is true. Science backs this up when it states that the Big Bang, (should you believe that) or in my mind, the point of creation perhaps, that the elements necessary to produce all the substance we see about us, is, in the major part, oxygen and helium. This reflects the compactness of Jehovah that from the creation of just a few elements, he ’causes all this to become’ …as his name suggests. Jehovah would have had to create something to form the mass that we see today. Nevertheless, the bible also states in Genesis that out of the dust you were made and to the dust you shall return. The fact that Jehovah may have created all things from nothing, he would, as far as my thinking takes me, have had to create from nothing, the elements from that which we are made and which he used himself, to create the means to sustain life. Thus both statements are true. Some people suggest that Jehovah is not bound by his own laws. This may be true. I just don’t know. However, Jehovah presumably respects the mathematical laws he made as he has set them in motion and indeed uses them. Of course there is nothing to suggest he cannot make more laws as the table of dimensions already suggest a compounding effect. There is also nothing to suggest that Jehovah has finished his creation. He is resting. As far as the heavens not being able to contain Jehovah I suspect you are right, however we do not know….Jehovah may be the heavens, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest a common force running through the entire universe, dark matter being just one of them. And yet, the bible suggests that heaven is a literal place, Christ having to return there having paid the ransom and to plead the case for the spirit to be given to the apostles. 40 days if my memory serves me right. The reference to electrum, a mixture of gold and silver I understand, is illustrative of the light that surrounds…or maybe is….Jehovah. An illustration is used because, as with timelessness, man cannot comprehend the magnificence of Jehovah and thus analagy has to be used. Anyway, as I said, the bit I wrote was just for fun, for wonderment about Jehovah. I said it was conjecture, because it is. But as for me, I firmly believe, and the bible backs me here, that Jehovah made us with an inquiring mind and he takes delight in our striving so to do. If I have offended you in so doing, then of course I apologise.

        • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

          Hello Burt. I appreciate the offer of speculation and ive also imagined in my we are a some sort of product of Jehovah call it a by-product if you will .but that simply wouldn’t fit as Jehovah said let us make man in our image! We are but a reflection of there cardnale qualities. And since Jehovah has no beginning or end. it would seem he doesn’t need light to exist he simply is , was and will be! Ive often often wondered since the bible says he was Alone, that he made others in the spiritual world for that very reason.. yet that cannot be the case for he needs or lacks nothing! Ive even wandered if all creation failed him and he extinguished everything , would he then be lonely? The bible says he is not like a man to feel regret , yet it says he regretted making Saul king..your right our imaginations can come up with some fascinating ideas. For instance Jesus said if we had faith the side of a mustard seed we could tell a mountain to move from here to there! If that’s the case ‘m hoping when we become perfect we could by sheer will alone move from earth to other habitual planet’s without need of a vehicle..wouldn’t that be cool?..good talking to you.

        • 1914for100Alex

          “Of course there is nothing to suggest he cannot make more laws…”

          This made me think of the rainbow after the flood in Genesis. How could there not have been rainbows prior to that? The only explanations are that it never rained before the flood (which wouldn’t make sense) or Jehovah decided to make up some new rules.

          • Burt Reynolds

            The bible speaks in Genesis of a mist going up and of dew watering the ground. Similar as to what we see in some equatorial forests. There was some thought given to a thermosphere in the upper atmosphere, relating to the text standing above and below the waters, which would have created a greenhouse effect, but not the sort we see today! But I’m not sure on these teachings at this time as it’s difficult to trust what one has been told by the watchtower, but in theory, it would certainly be an ecological wonder of efficiency and the account alludes to this. However, the only law we can be certain of with Jehovah and that IS binding on him!!!!! ….is that he is a law unto himself! Your service, Song of Hannah! Ha ha.

            • 1914for100Alex

              I hadn’t thought of the forests, or the account in Genesis about the mist. As you may have guessed I’m a bit rusty on this stuff, but reading all the posts and comments here feels like getting a refresher course, and cramming for a big test!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Well you’re on dodgy ground for a test with a 1914 epithet ! ……..and 1918, 1919, 1923, 1939, 1945 and 1975. I would steer clear of 607 and anything to do with weeks, days and years as well. Millennium might be safer. I’m pretty sure Burt Reynolds is a has-been too. Might change my name to Donald Trump. That should liven things up a bit.

            • 1914for100Alex

              Ha! I wanted to have a little fun when picking a name. It came down to either mocking the 1914 boondoggle, or smurfs (which my parents let me watch as a kid. Shhh!) Promise me that if you’re going to change your name, you’ll at least make a few posts with a Trans Am as your avatar! And don’t change your name to Smooth Peanut Butter. I hear that one might be taken…

            • Burt Reynolds

              No Trans Am. Might be able to manage a London bus.

      • Richard Long

        Made from nothing may be somewhat facile, Rev. Keep in mind I am only a layman with limited higher education, but the physical laws of matter and energy conservation and the conversion of matter into energy are well established and understood by learned men. The mystery, or “holy grail”, of physics is the conversion of energy into matter, currently embodied in the search for the “God particle”. Perhaps Jesus was simplifying for his audience the concept that Jehovah, being abundant in dynamic energy, created the material universe and everything in it by converting energy into matter. All physical laws assume a closed system, so it might more rightly be said that Jehovah contains the heavens (universe), and therefore may very well be omnipresent? No?

        • Burt Reynolds

          The clue lies in that Jehovah is termed as light, fantastically so, in that just to look on his being would bring about death for we mortals. As we know from plant growth, light is actually a source of food through photosynthesis, and in fact, light of itself contains the basic atomic weights of which the universe is created. It is thought that the remaining elements are a construct of the interaction of the act of creation. Einstein suggested as much in his famous equation of energy and mass.

          Nevertheless, if Jehovah is light as we know it ( but surely this is figurative and in terms, as you say, in which we can understand) then he would be bound by his own laws. We see in creation that light can be generated organically via bacteria and thus this being the case, it is hard to imagine that such is not the case outside of creation. It may therefor be an option that Jehovah created the laws by which creation came into existence and thus Jehovah remains separate from it but within it as he is the cause of it, and thus as you point out, omnipresent. It’s certainly something I consider may be the truth of it, but only insofar as our own knowledge reasons on it. For me, it explains how Jehovah is aware of all things, sees all things and can read the ethereal issues such as thought and prayer and intent. It also supports the supposition of his energy sustaining us alive. I like to think that Jehovah is closer than we suppose.

          But how can any of us know? It’s just weak guesswork. If Jehovah is the law maker, consider just for a moment, what of the laws he has not made!? Yet. The more I try to know Jehovah, the more obvious it is How little I know. If you take that thought to its logical conclusion, the more we look the less we know until we know nothing about anything. Rather like a politician I suppose.

        • Revv_zone@gmail.com Please8834

          I cannot speak for Jehovah as to what he is made of, i can only point to the written word , that he is dynamic energy what that Dynamic may-be who knows? The scriptures are clear that no man may see God in his natural form we might be vaporized in an instant. However the Bible indicates the Jehovah existed alone all alone, so we really don’t know what his surroundings look like, what it’s made of. Whatever it is just like whatever matter it is that holds the Earth and other planets in their respective positions unseen by the human eye only Jehovah can answer that. Mankind is hindered by physical laws that Jehovah placed us under and all the learning men with all their knowledge know nothing compared to Jehovah But if I were to answer in my own imagination I would think that we are a byproduct of Jehovah himself. that’s all I can say.

          • Richard Long

            I would come to the same conclusion.

  • Bobby 6343

    This I have to share with some of my friends! Thank you!

  • 1914for100Alex

    As creationists, it seems as though it’s always on us to prove the existence of God to the evolutionists. They point to science as evidence of their beliefs, and in many instances mock us for relying on faith as our evidence. What I’ve never understood is why they never have to explain where this matter that was supposedly just floating around in outer space came from that created the big bang. To me, if they were forced to answer it, it would even the playing field, as neither side can explain how something (God/big bang matter) just simply existed.It’s impossible for us to comprehend. If you’re going to believe we came into existence due to something that “just exists”, isn’t it more logical that it would be due to a creator that hasn’t filled us in on everything, as opposed to some random matter?

    The way it was explained to me as a kid was to imagine a radio (maybe I should update to iPad for this generation) in pieces. Take all those separate pieces that make up that radio and put them in a box and shake it up. Did they go together and make a working radio? What if you shake it again? No? What if you could shake it for a million years, checking it each time? Would it ever put itself together, just as it came from the factory, screws tight and all? Of course not. Now look at the world around us and ask yourself how much more complicated it is compared to a simple radio. A radio that was CREATED, not evolved from something. Put in that perspective, you can’t help but realize there’s no way all of “this” just happened to come about. It was clearly by design.

    • Burt Reynolds

      Absolutely 1914. There is an exception though. The anecdote that if you put 100 apes in a typing pool for one hundred years, they would type the complete works of Shakespeare . That this is an absolute fact is shown by the various groupings of politicians that we see around the earth. They have been interfering with the earth for thousands of years and have written the complete works of chaos, hence the Chaos Theroy so beloved of scientists and physicists today. An offshoot of this evolved into the governing body I hear.

    • for something to go bang (seriously all that education and thats the best they can come up with, something from non-life went kaboom? embarrassing) there has to be laws of motion and more in place for explostions to occur. where and how did these laws come to be? chance is boud by law. do explostions ever create order an harmony as we see today? can not happen.

      this proves Jehovah created everything – cuteoverload.com

  • Christian Obadiah

    An article written with wisdom! This has to be one of my favorite articles because it was the desire to know the identity of God and Jesus which began my yearning and quest for the truth. It was so comforting to finally know that I was correct – the trinity really did not make any sense.

    • kevinb 1914

      You wrote: “it was the desire to know the identity of God and Jesus which began my yearning and quest for the truth”. This reply is about God’s Son YAH’USHA but check out my comment on the true Name of His Father, the Almighty God and Creator, YAH’UAH:
      https://disqus.com/by/kevinb1914/

      The gospel of Matthew was originally inspired to write his gospel in Hebrew, which is one of the four languages that the Son of God spoke on earth. He spoke in Hebrew, Latin and Greek, and sometimes Aramaic. Pilate even had the inscription “King of the Yah’s” attached to the stake in 3 of the languages (the 3 inscriptions are now referred to in most bibles as ‘King of the Jews’) because people spoke those languages throughout the region. He probably spoke Latin to Pilate, the Roman governor.

      That is why we read that the Son of God slightly altered, and sometimes added to His prophecies and illustrations in the different gospels. He taught in the main languages of the people in His audience. His prophecies and illustrations depended on their language and background. This is why the gospel accounts of His teachings differ slightly.

      The ‘Society of Jesus’, the Jesuits, falsely claim that the Messianic scriptures were all written in Greek. Why would the Jesuits do that, when we know that Matthew, Hebrews and several other books were written in Hebrew? Even Mark and Romans appear to have been written originally in Latin. It is because it is impossible to write out or pronounce the ‘sh’ sound using Greek characters, so it is impossible to write out and therefore pronounce YAH’USHA.

      The Jesuits, who control all major religions, control, influence and deceive bible scholar’s into falsely claiming that the entire Messianic scriptures were written in Greek. Then they hide all Hebrew and Latin copies of ancient bible manuscripts, such as the Hebrew copy of the book of Matthew that was found among the Dead Sea scrolls, to prevent the true earthly name of the Son of God, YAH’USHA, from being written or spoken, because as I mentioned, you cannot write YAH”USHA’s name properly in Greek.

      ‘Jesus’ is actually the false name for the Son of God and comes from the demon god of the Druids, a satanic cult from England. This Hesus/Jesus is who the Jesuits at the Vatican satanically worship… in secret! Look at the Vatican symbol for God… It has an ‘I’ for Isis, and ‘S’ for Set, and an ‘H’ for Hesus… all satanic demons gods!

      At the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, the Roman emperor Constantine called together all religious leaders in the Roman empire because he wanted one religion so he could unite the Roman empire politically. He actually chose ‘Hesus’, the demon God of the Druids from the western part of the Roman empire, and ‘Krishna, the ‘savior’ god of the Hindus from the Eastern part.

      This dual demon god eventually became ‘Jesus Christ’ in English when the ‘J’ letter was officially added as the 26th letter of the English alphabet in 1630. This is critical because the fake ‘2nd coming’ of the fake ‘Son of God’ ‘Jesus’ will happen worldwide in many nations and languages exactly 45 days after the ‘death stroke’ to the US, which is when the New World Order will be put in place. This will happen 1290 days before the true Son of God, YAH’USHA, returns for all to see on the 1335th day after the Great Tribulation begins with the temporary destruction of the United States. (Dan 12:12)

      This false 2nd coming will mislead many, which is why it is the first thing the Son of God mentioned when the disciples asked Him when He was going to return, He told them “Watch out that no one deceives you, because many will come on the basis of my name and mislead many’….

      Everyone that wants to ‘worship the Father with spirit and truth’, which is ‘who He is looking to be worshiped by’, need to ‘get out’ of the Pharisaical false religion of Jehovah the Devil’s Babylonish Witlessess… if they ‘do not want to suffer part of her plagues.’

  • RodScod

    Very interesting read – “The Unseen Realm” by Dr. Michael Heiser.

  • Merton

    It’s a bit presumptuous to assume that ‘in the beginning’ refers to the very beginning of creation. If man hadn’t have fallen, there would be no need for a bible. The bible is God’s message to us, the plan about the kindgom. There’s no record of God creating the angels in Genesis chapter 1, yet we know they were there when God created the earth. It says God created the heavens and the earth…the heavens could very easily be the skies. We don’t need to know what happened before God decided to create humans, it’s not necessary for salvation.

    In response to the John 1:1 quote, I would advise all people to read the letters of John, Peter and James before reading the gospel of John. They were almost all certainly written before the gospel was written. Go and see how many times ‘the Word’ is used in those books. Look at 1 Peter 1:23-24. And read it in the New Jerusalem Bible, they will stay consistent and capitalise it throughout. The revelation 19 quote can be discussed if people want to hold onto their doctrines.

    You shouldn’t quote Colossians 1:15-17 without quoting verse 18 too. If I did what alot of people did, I could dig my heels in here and say Jesus was the first-born from the dead. I could say he was resurrected before Lazarus. It says it right there he was the first-born from the dead, if I wanted to believe that and had no regard for truth or what the apostle Paul intended to put across, then that is what I could do. But we know he’s talking about the new creation, it is so obvious. But he’s also talking about the new creation when he says ‘image of unseen God, firstborn of all creation, in him everything was created in heavens and earth…’ people see this word ‘creation’ and they immediately go back to Genesis 1:1. Remember the bible wasn’t originally written in verses. Go and read 2 Corinthians 5:18. If we are ‘in Christ’ we are new creations. That doesn’t mean I was created back in Genesis 1:1! The revelation 3:14 quote can also be rebuffed this way.

    The genesis 1:26 quote probably the verse in the bible which has suffered the most from eisegesis. This could mean anything. Granted it could mean a pre-existant Jesus, but it could mean the other two persons of the trinity, angels, fairies, unicorns….if there was another verse in the bible which told us about 1:26 then sure but come on are we going to build doctrine around something so vague?

    8th chapter of Proverbs…says nothing about a Son, nothing about Jesus, nothing about ‘the Word’. And if you’re going to claim this is Jesus talking here, you will have a big problem when it comes to Hebrews 1:1-2. This is not something the Hebrews writer would be writing if in fact the Son had been speaking to God’s people throughout the old testament.

    When we read the bible we have to get the message that the writer intended to put across to us, NO MORE NO LESS. For instance the trinitarians go around grabbing different parts of the bible, no regard for intended meaning, no regard for truth and they build their own god/idol from that. The Jws and their 1914 doctrine is the same – no regard for truth, just how can they make it work. We don’t want to fall into their traps.

    No fight wanted, just healthy discussion. Appreciate all you did for me Robert when I first came to learn about Jehovah.

    • who was speaking in Gen 1:26? Jehovah. was he talking to penguins? “All other things have been created through him and for him.” – his “master woker” Michael aka Jesus.

      no-brainer

      i seriously hate learing BS about others stupidity of scripture when that crap dont even cross my mind because i’ve understood it the correct way its meant to be understood. if anyone thinks Jehovah is talking to anyone other then his sons then theyre demented

  • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

    Respected Brother Robert,
    The difference of the beginning what is said in old testament and what is told in new testament that you have showed is actually a good insight to me thanks a lot, I have included this point with by Bible students.

  • LW

    Really helps me visualize the Earth being created

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aIDrEvJ8zq8#/watch?v=aIDrEvJ8zq8

  • Joseph Stephan
  • Giuseppe

    Archie Bunker on Creation

    https://youtu.be/r4czdTaUQVg

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