The Hour of Darkness Approaches

//The Hour of Darkness Approaches

Immediately after Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River and anointed by God as the promised Messiah he was promptly led by the holy spirit into the wilderness in order to be tempted by the Devil. 

But that was just the beginning. After having failed to tempt Jesus into an act of disloyalty to Jehovah the gospel writer Luke noted that the Devil concluded the temptation, only “until another convenient time.” Some time later Jesus exposed his tempter as the wicked ruler of the world, the father of the lie and the original manslayer – charging his fellow Jews as being those desirous of doing the will of the wicked one.

On the night he was arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus told his captors that it was their hour and the authority of darkness  – meaning that Jehovah had removed his protection from Christ in order to allow the wicked one to test him to the limit. If you recall, on several occasions during his ministry the murderous Jews tried to kill Jesus, but could not. On other occasions the leaders wanted to have Christ destroyed but they were in fear of those who accepted him as a man of God. But all impediments to his destruction were swept away on that fateful Passover.

Jesus forewarned Peter that Satan had also demanded to have them, the apostles, in order to sift them as wheat, and by extension, everyone who has been called into the kingdom of Christ. That would include Jehovah’s Witnesses today, would it not?

Although prior to his torturous death Jesus stated that he had beheld Satan already fallen from heaven just like lightening, Jesus did not mean to imply that Satan had already been deposed back then or that he is no longer the ruler of this evil system we presently live under. Jesus simply meant that the kingdom of God, which then powerfully manifested itself through the powers given to Christ and his followers, was certain to eventually, completely destroy the authority of darkness.

That the Devil was still very much in power is evident from Paul’s later writings regarding Satan being the god of this world who blinds the minds of the unbelievers. And, of course, the book of Revelation, a revelation of what is to occur during the conclusion of this present system, reveals that the demons and their wicked king are not evicted from heaven until the actual commencement of the reign of Christ. The overthrow of the wicked angels in heaven and their banishment to this tiny troubled sphere for a “short period of time” will result in the worst catastrophe this world has ever experienced.

Jesus said of that bleak time that the sun will turn into darkness, the moon will not give its light and the very stars will fall from the heavens – an hour of darkness indeed!

In advance of that earth-shattering event the Devil has been allowed to rig his system to collapse into chaos at the moment he is violently thrown down from heaven by the newly enthroned Michael the archangel.

The currently tottering global financial system is the most likely tripwire to cause an implosion that will bring civilization to its knees. The vast arsenal of nuclear and various and sundry other weapons of mass destruction, countless terrorist cells, governmental spying apparatus and pre-built concentration camps, are already in place for the Devil to bring the foretold “hour of test” upon the world.

After his ouster from heaven the maddened Devil will then be allowed an interval of time equivalent to the duration of the earthly ministry of Christ, during which time he will use his revived earthly political beast to terrorize the world into total submission, with the express intent of causing the chosen ones to betray their Lord. Did not Jesus foretell that men would become faint with fright in dread and foreboding during the dark night of the conclusion and that no flesh would even survive the ordeal unless God would cut the tribulation short?

As an indication of the change that will take place in the political system, the 13th chapter of Revelation depicts a two-horned lamb that emerges from the bowels of the earth, as if returning from the dead. And which then begins to speak as a dragon in ordering mankind to create and worship an image of the resurrected beast. (The dragon is Satan the Devil according to Revelation 12:9)

Notably, the lamb is also a symbol of Jesus Christ. The two-horned lamb out of the earth symbolizes the Anglo-American duo after they recover from their now-impending crash. The lamb-like beast is an appropriate representation since both nations have ostensibly been “Christian” nations, espousing freedom and democracy and Christian values and are locked in a Special Relationship alliance; hence, two horns. Its speaking as a dragon denotes the tyrannical nature the beast will assume during the symbolic one-hour the eighth king is allowed to terrorize the world.

Knowing the great test that will come upon his disciples during the concluding hour of the authority of darkness, Jesus forewarned them to not become terrified or allow themselves to be deceived. Underscoring the criticalness of the time of trouble, Jesus said that the deception Satan would be allowed to work upon the world will be so effective that it could conceivably deceive the chosen ones – adding, “if that were possible.”

As an organization Jehovah’s Witnesses suppose that they are immune to the Devil’s deception. After all, Jehovah’s Witnesses have the truth and the Watchtower Society is the very mouthpiece of the Master’s faithful and discreet slave. How could Satan possibly influence or over-reach Jehovah’s earthly organization? The cultivated opinion among Jehovah’s Witnesses is that God would never allow that to occur.  Paradoxically, that prevailing assumption is the very thing that makes Jehovah’s Witnesses most vulnerable to the Devil’s trickery.

king solomonConsider, for example, King Solomon. He was, of course, the son of King David, a man whom Jehovah noted was a man after his own heart. And because of Solomon’s humble request for the wisdom to be able to guide God’s people, God graciously gave him wisdom and riches surpassing that of any man prior to him. Solomon had the privilege of building Jehovah’s temple and even contributed a significant portion to the collection of inspired scriptures.

In spite of his great wisdom, though, Solomon became apostate and brought ruin upon Israel by introducing the worship of numerous false gods in order to please his multitude of idol-worshipping foreign wives.

Most kings of Israel and Judah consequently promoted or tolerated idolatry and apostasy. 

Satan was also successful in infiltrating Christ’s original congregation. Even while Jesus was with his disciples the apostle named Judas Iscariot became a willing pawn of the Devil. During Paul’s ministry to the nations the apostle was compelled to expose the leading men of the Corinthian congregation as mere agents of Satan who had slyly disguised themselves as ministers of righteousness.  Eventually the demons took complete control of Christianity when Roman emperor Constantine inserted himself as its leader.

Blatant pagan teachings, idolatry, the bloodshed and plunder of the Crusades, the pogroms against the Jews and endless warmongering, political involvement, Bible burnings and murders of those who attempted to teach the truth, stand as undeniable evidence of the Devil’s influence over the churches.

In stark contrast to Christendom, the Watchtower Society has championed the truth; and the evidence is clearly discernable for all who wish to accept it that Jehovah’s Witnesses practice and preach the true faith, as revealed in the Scriptures.

“Surely they will keep saying what is according to this statement that will have no light of dawn. And each one will certainly pass through the land hard pressed and hungry; and it must occur that because he is hungry and has made himself feel indignant, he will actually call down evil upon his king and upon his God and will certainly peer upward. And to the earth he will look, and, lo! distress and darkness, obscurity, hard times and gloominess with no brightness.” – Isaiah 8:-20-22

That being said, the Watchtower Society has perpetrated one of the biggest hoaxes in history – the hoax that Christ invisibly returned in 1914.  In truth, the Watchtower’s cherished 1914 invisible parousia doctrine bears all the earmarks of the “operation of error” that Paul foretold God would permit to go to those who know the truth, in order to test their love of the truth.

The operation of error is not in reference to the pagan teachings of Christendom, as the Watchtower teaches. According to the inspired apostle, Satan would be allowed to set up a fake parousia, using an earthly man of lawlessness ensconced within the spiritual temple of God to make apostolic pronouncements and declarations that the presence had begun and the day of Jehovah was here – using all his wicked powers to make it appear as if the prophecies had been fulfilled. This would occur as an immediate prelude to the actual Parousia and day of Jehovah. 

The great sifting that was imposed upon the apostles was effected in no small measure due to the erroneous assumptions the Jews held regarding the Messiah. In other words, God allowed an operation of error in the first century. (Not coincidentally, Jesus said Judas was “the son of destruction. The man of lawlessness is also called “the son of destruction.)

The error presently in operation upon Jehovah’s Witnesses will result in a great test of faith when the hour of the authority of the darkness arrives.

“We keep hoping for light, but, look! darkness; for brightness, but in continuous gloom we kept walking. We keep groping for the wall just like blind men, and like those without eyes we keep groping. We have stumbled at high noon just as in evening darkness.” – Isaiah 59:9-10

 

 

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2016-12-08T15:12:49+00:00 September 19th, 2011|Page One|238 Comments
  • e.v.g

    Next year the meetings will have a new format, what is the point?
    I think they are making trivial changes in these matters, the recent watchtower review articles advise about to “keep on the watch”, but I think, to keep on the watch on what? they are saying that we need to keep preaching etc… they are not giving a detailed explanation about Jesus words in reference to His warning. We are approaching the next world holocaust and preaching work only works sounding alarms right now such as E Watchman has been doing so far (Joel 2:1)
    please!!!, Jehovah, help us to act in accordance with your will.

    • Sam

      Well, it serves as another way in which many can praise the “slave” for more God directed changes.. further solidifying the idol in everyones mind. Might I add that it appears the Bible Highlights is being replaced by items in which the speaker is once one told what to say. I echo your sentiment!!

      • John

        All Isaiah 26 seems to be very prophetic about the time of the end. What do you think, are the following verses speaking about the wicked slave/slaves acting as masters and their end? :

        Isaiah 26:13 O Jehovah our God, other masters besides you have acted as owners of us. By you only shall we make mention of your name. 14 They are dead; they will not live. Impotent in death, they will not rise up. Therefore you have turned your attention that you might annihilate them and destroy all mention of them.

        Daniel 12 has something about that too :
        2 And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life AND THOSE TO REPROACHES [AND] TO INDEFINITELY LASTING ABHORRENCE.

        • Sam

          Seems likely. I wonder about a parallel in 26:10, that says “Even in the land of uprightness he will act wickedly and he will not see the majesty of Jehovah” and verse 11 “Your hand is raised but they do not see it”
          We are told we are in “spiritual paradise” a figurative land of uprightness, yet Jehovah’s majesty is being pushed aside, and his word and authority is not recognized

  • Bklyn Kevin

    In regards to 2 Thessalonians 2:.
    If the man of lawlessness is Christendom as taught by the watchtower, how is it that Christendom is preaching that Jesus Christ is yet to come?.
    In other words Christendom is not exclaiming that Jehovah’s day is here nor is Christendom saying that the Christ has already come, so how could the Watchtower possibly conclude Christendom is the man of lawlessness ?.
    If one does a little research they will soon find out that the only ones that have been professing that Jehovah’s day has already come is none other than the watchtower tract society and in fact they have been preaching this for the last hundred years, so in my conclusion I would speculate that the scriptures at 2 Thessalonians 2: concerning the man of lawlessness applies to the watchtower tract society.

    • e.v.g

      They will find out that when they will be in stress, the happy smiles will disappear from their faces including their stubborn and arrogant attitude, Jehovah has been patient during this period of time, waiting to crush their enemies until the time indicated.

      • Bklyn Kevin

        Yes I agree, apparently they are so arrogantly blind with conceit to the point of being obstinate that they can’t see the truth beyond what the watchtower tells them.

      • John

        There is a fitting prophecy in lsaiah 26 about this. And here the timeframe is the final time with persecution before the time to “enter your interior room”.

        Isaiah 26:16 O Jehovah, during distress they have turned their attention to you; they have poured out a whisper [of prayer] when they had your disciplining. 17 Just as a pregnant woman draws near to giving birth, has labor pains, cries out in her birth pangs, so we have become because of you, O Jehovah. 18 We have become pregnant, we have had labor pains; as it were, we have given birth to wind. No real salvation do we accomplish as regards the land, and no inhabitants for the productive land proceed to fall [in birth].
        19 “Your dead ones will live. A corpse of mine—they will rise up. Awake and cry out joyfully, YOU residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of mallows, and the earth itself will let even those impotent in death* drop [in birth]. [ The first resurrection? ]
        20 “Go, my people, enter into your interior rooms, and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself for but a moment until the denunciation passes over.

        • e.v.g

          That is the point when Jesus spoke to His disciples “keep on the watch”, this is all about when Isaiah prophesy about the inner rooms, Keep on the Watch to be inside the Inner Rooms.

    • Vasilios Agio

      well said

    • Vasilios Agio

      Yes good point and may I add that it goes on to say that he sits in the tempo of God . Given the fact that it mentions the temple of the true God is indicating the watchtower . This is the new temple . It’s not chrisondom cause they don’t even know who the true God is . Jehovah

      • Arvid Fløysand

        Hello Vasilios 🙂
        The spiritual temple is actually the annointed ones…not Watchtower.
        (1 Corinhians 3:16,17…”Do you not know that you yourselves are Gods temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone destroys the temple of God,God will destroy him ;for the temple of God is holy,and you are that temple.”)

        The man of lawlessness is those who claim to be annointed but are not…and therfore they will be destroyed by God (Matthew 22:11-13…When the king came in to inspect the guests,he caugth sight of a man not wearing a marriage garment.So he said to him,”Fellow how did you get in here without a marriage garment?He was speechless.Than the king said to his servants,Bind him,hand and foot and throw him into the darkness outside.There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be”.)

        When Jesus the Christ arrives he will cleance that temple (His annointed ones)and throw out those who not belong there (the “man” of lawlessness)

        At that moment we will get the answer about who is really the fatefull slave?

        We do not know for sure who and where all the annointed ones is/are…
        We will soon know…and many will be surprised …and this will be the basis for judgement.
        See Matthew 25:31-46…:-)

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Excellent comment Avird thank you.

        • Beverly kenyon

          What a fantastic reminder Arvid, about the Spiritual Temple…the Anointed, these living stones that make up that Spiritual Temple, Jesus being the Foundation Cornerstone of that Spiritual Temple and like you said, this Temple is NOT the WT.

          • The Raven

            And this is what I will have as my thought for the day as I head off to work! 🙂

            • Beverly kenyon

              Lol. Same here. I’m off to work too and will be thinking of this though. It’s brilliant!

        • The Raven

          Straight to the point. Thank you for that, Arvid. It helps a great deal to understand the severity of these impostor’s deeds and how they will be dealt with.

        • Vas vegan Rants

          Yes that’s very correct brother thsnlyou . May I add that the watchtower professes to be the spiritual temple .

          • Arvid Fløysand

            Yes that is true and by doing so,they occupy the Holy place..Thats the reason Jehovah is going to send Jesus the Christ himself to set things straith and clense His spiritual temple and hurle out those who do not belong there…and not only those indeviduals but also everything that is connected/belongs to them (all their “animals”and their “tables”)Joh.2:13-17

            But His innocent sheep-likeend people will be treated in a loving way in the same place…Luk.19:47
            It is very sad but it seems like the history repeat itself..Those who was supposed to welcome Messiah, (and this time Messiah include all the chosen ones) will instead go against Him..antiChrist..Lets all together pray from the bottom of our hearts that the true temple must be restored in all its glory to once and for all give honor to Jehovahs name

            • Beverly kenyon

              Like that point you made about when Jesus Christ comes back to cleanse His Spiritual Temple…getting rid of ones who are counterfeit frauds and even down to their belongings i.e ‘animals and tables’ and that can be extended to Luxury complex complete with luxury apartments, everything top of the range, cars, billions in the Bank, jw.org….all their assets along with themselves will be slung and gotten rid of once and for all! Love this post Arvid now I’m going to read Daniel 9 as you suggested in another post.

            • Huldah

              Interesting that you brought up the temple cleansing. Has anyone ever commented on the significance of the fact that Jesus cleansed the temple at the start of his ministry and 3.5 years later at the end of it? Two cleansings
              Perhaps JWs first then Christendom…3.5 yrs later hmmmm.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              And there is two witness…”Moses” and “Elijah”…Moses came first (the first cleanseing)…later elijah(second cleanseing)….but thy both came to Jehovahs own people…i personally belive there are two seperate periods of 3.5 years and that we are soon facing the second cleansing…the final one

            • Huldah

              Good points Arvid.
              I used to think that the first cleansing was 1918. As if there was a first presence in the temple and that the manifestation that is coming is the second greater presence in cleansing the temple completely. When do you believe the first cleansing was?

            • Beverly kenyon

              Not being funny Huldah, but that’s laughable that Judge Rutherford…and I’ll give him his full title…and a few others were banged up for about a year means Jesus was ‘cleansing’ the ‘temple’. That should’ve been a warning to the Judge that he was being disciplined for how he was treating anointed ones, expelling them and basically being a dictator of Sodom! But of course they spin it to their own advantage. There’s going to be the real cleansing at the real Parousia! Like Arvid said, the Final One also Brother King has touched on the supposed 1918 “cleansing”. Pity they didn’t keep the Judge in prison for an extra few years to learn him humility!

            • Vasilios Agio

              I was reading about Rutherford owning powerful v12 cars back in the day living a very luxurious life whilst everyone was going out witnessing and mist back then couldn’t afford dental care for there poor little children as they had them freezing in the New York snowy winters Rutherford , on the other hand was spending every winter on the sunny beAches of Europe . According to a historian .

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yeah, Vasilios, just a few more things to add to the list regarding that man! Would he have been disfellowshipped if it weren’t for the fact he made a power grab and ended up in the position he held.i remember sitting at the Tuesday book study the first time round with the Revelation book and we got to that part about 1918 and these few men been imprisoned and how it was a ‘spiritual’ big event and I remember thinking, what’s so special about that, they got out didn’t they and carried on as normal and in the scheme of really important things like the preaching work and the telling of this amazing Kingdom and the benefits it will bring to mankind, why would Jehovah single out these servants ( workers ), mere men to be elevated and congratulated for spending time in prison when you look back at how some faithful servants of God was killed horrifically and treated. And behind the scenes this man who, bearing in mind knew how to work the Law, was cutting a deal to get the hell out of prison!! So much for being a martyr and willingly undergoing the ‘cleansing’. I would’ve wanted proof, at the least, his stigmata wounds! Control freak and dictator of Sodom springs to mind regarding that man. If the Devil can pass off 1914 as Jesus’ presence so he can furnish ones like that man with information in regards to him highlighting the identity of the Great Crowd and once again I will say, so what he found that Bible gem, someone else would’ve found it eventually!

            • Vasilios Agio

              Very good points sister . Thankyou . At the end of the day and as much as I don’t like how the org has gone we must leave these things to Jehovah . When Christ truly returns all matters will be settled .we have to fixate on how we can survive the future . It’s not going to be easy . Not worshipping the beast is going to make all Christ Kingdom followers stand out and the test will be difficult . It is imperative that we keep in the watch for the true parousia .in Greek we still use this word . It’s more commonly used when we are walking and someone , a friend for example who your planning to meet somewhere suddenly taps you on the shoulder unknowingly he has arrived and you are surprised at his being there suddenly ,unexpectedly . We would say pos parousiastike aftos (Where did you come from ) how did u sneak up without us knowing ) we didn’t think we would see you . (Where were you hiding and now you surprised us . We had no idea you are here ! You can never truly translate Greek words into English . Only in a roundabout way .

            • Beverly kenyon

              Sorry to have gone on a rant Vasilios, but it gets my back up at such ones exploiting trusting, meek ones who only want to serve Jehovah God in a proper manner and present day, nothing has changed, that sort of behaviour is still happening but of course the exploited ones themselves in turn start revering these men and treating them like idols and I don’t get that mindset at all! When Brother King brought out the meaning of the word, Parousia, to come alongside I was amazed at that, but I’m fully getting a fuller meaning of that important Greek word and how when Jesus comes back, his Parousia will be a real surprise for many! You’ve described it brilliantly Vasilios!

            • Vasilios Agio

              I love all your comment sister Beverly ,many thanks for sharing your wisdom

            • Beverly kenyon

              Thank you Vasilios, I’m just a plain talker, sometimes without a filter! Lol. Also, I like common sense talking, no faffing about. Jehovah gave us that amazing gift of our conscience, our moral compass to guide us along with the book of Life, the Bible, our instructions and that’s what we listen to. I don’t know about me and wisdom Vasilios, as the sisters on this site are so full of wisdom I’m an amateur compared to them, ones like, Daisy, Huldah, ShaSha, SoH, Observing Quietly, Sally, Peaceful Waters, Marisa, Shelley, Sister Thinking, Annie (who went but she was full of wisdom and humour and she’s missed, hope she comes back), Tabitha and I’ll say, LH…so full of wisdom but don’t know if male or female, Arvid and Joseph’s Mums as I know they’re full of wisdom, all these amazing women full of wisdom and one of those reasons is because they recognised and listened to the REAL Truth of God’s Word and I mustn’t forget Andereiga as she went digging for real truth too…I do admire these women. Another point I like as well Vasilios is what Jesus himself said when he pulled up Peter at John 21: 20-22. I read that as, never mind those ones who put you down, you just keep following Jesus Christ and live a Christian life and let your light shine, witnessing where and when you can considering your situation.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Vasilios, you have a good working conscience, you’re obviously a spiritual person with a love of Jehovah and his King, Jesus Christ and a real sense of justice. It’s someone who wilfully PRACTICE sin, that’s unforgivable as you’re making a mockery of Jehovah’s love and forgiveness. Jesus with a few simple words forgave that woman who was about to be stoned and can you imagine how Peter felt, actually we know how he felt, he betrayed the Son of God and his friend, there’s Paul, accessory to murder no less, David the sly guy, Solomon the womaniser and false worshipper, Lot who impregnated his own daughters, euww, the list is endless of these ones but once they turned away from doing bad they played major parts in the out working of Jehovah’s purpose. There’s loads more I can say Vasilios but my child is hurrying me up to give her a lift, aargh, children can be proper nuisances sometimes, so I have to go but you know all the scriptures about forgiveness and we have Jesus who lived as one of us, human, who understands and can plead our case before Jehovah and we have his word, the Bible to find comfort about how Jehovah forgives in a large way.

            • Vasilios Agio

              Thankyou sister Beverly

            • Joseph S.

              In 1929, a residence named Beth Sarim (literally, House of Princes) was constructed at San Diego, California for Rutherford’s use,[207][208] initially as winter accommodation and later as a full-time residence.[205][209] He died at the property in 1942. The villa was sold in 1948, with The Watchtower declaring, “It had fully served its purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to keep.”[210]

              The standard of Rutherford’s accommodation and his personal conduct attracted criticism from some Bible Students and Jehovah’s Witnesses in the 1930s. Walter F. Salter, the Society’s former branch manager in Canada, wrote a public letter to Rutherford in 1937, the month he was expelled from the group, claiming that Rutherford had exclusive use of “luxurious” and “expensive” residences (in Brooklyn, Staten Island, Germany, and San Diego), as well as two Cadillacs[211][212][213] and alleged that on more than one occasion he had purchased for Rutherford cases of whiskey, brandy, beer and other liquors, and ‘go from “drink to drink”‘.[214] In July 1939 Olin R. Moyle, legal counsel for the Society, wrote an open letter of resignation to the president, in which he complained about behavior of some members of the Watch Tower Society, including Rutherford himself, that he considered excessive and inappropriate. Moyle mentioned California when discussing “the difference between the accommodations furnished to you, and your personal attendants, compared with those furnished to some of your brethren.” Moyle also accused Rutherford of “unkind treatment of the staff, outbursts of anger, discrimination and vulgar language” and condemned his allowing the “glorification of alcohol” at Bethel.

              Joseph Franklin Rutherford on Wikipedia
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Franklin_Rutherford

            • Beverly kenyon

              Ummm….the drink alone should’ve got him disfellowshipped cos he obviously had a problem there and ‘personal attendants’! Alright for some! Fast forward to present day and there’s luxury apartments and the rest of the perks they’re enjoying not to mention stamping Jehovah’s Holy book with their atutographs! Personally for me that really is a step too far not even mentioning everything else! I have zero respect for them!

            • Vasilios Agio

              Good points sister thankyou . Yes the way Rutherford lived his life I’m sure he was disfellowshipped by Jehovah . This is a good point you made because there are witnesses who claim to be Christ like but there are also those outside such as brother Robert and so many others who are faithful men of god yet are looked upon as rejections . Christ return will sort all these matters strsight .

            • Vasilios Agio

              That’s a brilliant summary of the man dear brother . And the fact that they got locked up and released has nothing to do with them being the ones to fulfil the occursnce of an end time project of gods people being put in front of governors and being jailed . It all comes back to 1914 delusion . Due to the fact that they established that lie born from satan , the father of the lie then nothing they speak from that time on makes any sense . I’m elated to have found the truth about the truth , it’s as rare as hens teeth and it’s a spiritual privaledge but more need to know about it . The delusion .

            • Richard Long

              And still we must at least consider that Rutherford, hypocrite as he was, may well have been truly anointed and used by Jehovah, who has deferred punishment for a lot of misdeeds to see his purposes completed, No?

            • Vasilios Agio

              We all know what Paul was before he saw Jesus . Put in saying this Paul remained faithful and his writing were inspired . On the other hand these men such as Rutherford run a muck , taking advantage of the fruits , mishandling the income and living a double life so to speak . I know we must not judge . It’s in Jehovah’s hands .we also have a rafter and maybe even bigger that Rutherford . But it’s hard to believe that these men are given insight and food via the Holy Spirit and yet they stumble many and write things no spoken by Jehovah . Now we have the hiding of the pedophiles . We had the praising of the beast . We have bible signing for followers who idolise men . Etc etc 1975 1914 …and yet brilothers and sisters are telling me I must go back and be re fellow shipped via men to be good with Jehovah . Nowhere can I find one scripture that tells me to go to a man or org for forgiveness for a sin against Jehovah . When we pray we talk to Jehovah thru Christ Jesus our saviour yet wen we make a gross mistake we are exiled as the likes of a criminal and we must prove to man we are repentant .is the governing body repentant ?

            • Richard Long

              Vasilios, my brother, my heart is torn in two for you. I cannot advise you in these very very personal questions, which I took to be rhetorical anyway. Robert has, through his work, documented the apostasy of the WT and indicted both the WT on every conceivable lapse of their self-proclaimed duty to feed the sheep wholesome spiritual food, as well as our (JW’s) lapse into patent Idolatry of the WT.

              The Irony is that IF the parousia had started in 1874 or 1914, or at anytime before now, AT THAT TIME the anointing would have been closed out, making anyone claiming to be anointed at a later date suspect, including Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz, or Henschel. Each of us has to decide how much authority we will allow the WT to have over us. Since you are now in the realization that the GB claim to have been approved over all the master’s belongings is premature and spurious, does that lessen their hold on you?

              Robert mentioned that at some point it became evident to him that the “cost” of his anointing, if he was going to pursue that truth, was his Elder-ship, essentially his position in the Congregation(s), and he, a potential future king and priest now must sit outside the city gate, figuratively, in a place of dishonor according to men. But I say with all my heart his “disgrace” has been to the glory of Jehovah and Christ, and quite literally the instrument of salvation to many thousands.

              Given that your “gross sin” was probably “forgiven” for Judean kings, and your candid repentance, which seems sincere to me, might I suggest that you might be nursing a wound Jehovah has already bound up and forgiven? Have you not already been thoroughly chastised, most rigorously by your own conscience far more than the men you feel you must answer to? Are you now in a position that to be accepted back into the congregation, you might actually have to give up your integrity? Maybe the “cost” of your integrity is your standing in the congregation?

              I am not DF’d, but inactive some many years now. I long for the association with the friends but Jehovah has not yet shown me a way back to meetings that does not end in my big mouth landing me in judicial hearings, because I just cannot listen to lies and not speak up. If I cant speak my heart on matters, what use am I to the association and what use are they to me. It may very well turn out that such a public expulsion is exactly what Jehovah expects me to endure, but for the present, the way forward is not clear to me.

              I hope only to provide wider perspective on the issue(s) weighing you down presently, as you consider for yourself what your relationship with Jehovah must look like to onlookers. It bears asking if those that might not be approving of you ought to be considered a genuine authority that you should submit to?

            • Vasilios Agio

              Beverly Richard and Burt may I thank you from the bottom of my heart of your sincere and kind and loving words of truth . I truly respect your wisdom on this matter that has had me down for more than 15 years and I must say that I can feel some light knowing others are in a same place . Sometimes we only see ourselves as suffering yet there are many . A problem shared is a problem halved and I comment you brothers and sisters for taking the time to write about these matters . Your love is felt and my hopes have risen . I feel I have a relationship with Jehovah and I feel he has accepted my apologies a thousand times . I am not going to underestimate Jehovah’s love and forgiveness as some men may have us believe . I am disappointed in the organisation that expel brothers and sisters greater than myself without remorse as tho they are dead . Thankyou very much many thanks

            • Beverly kenyon

              Wow, Richard, I sooo love this post! Some of what you’ve written I’m personally taking on board. Love that bit about its us who decide how much authority we let ‘any man’ have over us! I changed it to ‘any man’ and not just WT, hope you don’t mind cos that’s how I see it. I will never relinquish control of my being to any human like I did to them in the past and even writing that I feel I need to take ten showers to wash away the feelings of stupidity, shame cos I was properly mugged off and years I lost which I will never get back! But I’m not going to wallow and stay down and cry into my coffee feeling like a victim, I’m going to look for the positives and one of those being by a real modern day miracle in my case, I landed HERE on this site…I still can’t believe it and where I’m continuing my higher education with the help of others here, on spiritual matters and I now feel the happy, confident, grown up witness I should’ve been way back then and talking to and learning from the most amazing witnesses I’ve ever met. I really do feel sometimes my plate is running over at this spiritual banquet Jehovah has provided through his faithful servants like Brother King, Perimeno and Baruq’s site. I would be made up if a lot more others found their way here…that would be like the best!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Whatever your sin, is between you and Jehovah. We stand alone before Jehovah. So pray and ask forgiveness between you and He. Your ‘sin’ may not be sin if you were speaking out, telling the biblical truth and got disfellowshipped for ‘apostasy” as Robert did. Besides which, those who like me faded away, we are now treated as disfellowshipped and so we are all in the same boat. I have found being straightforward and honest in prayer a great help. Jehovah tells us that he is a hearer of prayer. Believe it!

            • Vasilios Agio

              Thankyou brother Burt

            • Beverly kenyon

              Vasilios, can’t begin to tell you how much I agree with the things you’ve written in this post! Even with the massive rafter in my eye I can see these men for what they are! The hiding of paedophiles is disgusting enough, but a person have to abide by their man made rules to have forgiveness of sin…seriously! Only Jesus pleads for me to Jehovah, I don’t have to go through some imperfect middle aged guy in a cheap suit to plead for me, I’ll leave that to the Catholics. Will the gb be repentant when they lose all the trappings of their luxury life, I doubt it very much.

            • Vasilios Agio

              Brilliant !!

            • Vasilios Agio

              Good comment brother Richard . I would hate to judge another man or question what our sovereign Lord Jehovah does . He sees the heart of a man and we don’t . Maybe these men truly lived Jehovah and wanted to please him in there assignment but came up shower due to there imperfections . Who knows how I would have been doing if I was in Rutherfords position maybe even worse . We all wish to do good but this system coupled with the pressure of satan turns us into men we wished we never became . Who knows what relationship or weaknesses these governing body men have . If Jehovah gave them the job then it shouldn’t be questioned . I think brother Robert is steering us into the right direction with his insight . I think our main goal is to build faith like never before and live nothing thus system has to offer not even our clothes or furniture . We need to stand as if naked and face what Jehovah has in store for us without question . Thx for your reply it made me think differently .

            • Richard Long

              JS, have you seen the vid of JFR acting all goofy at Beth Sarim? Apparently a former bethelite ExJW is presenting it.

            • Joseph S.
            • Richard Long

              that’s it.

            • Joseph S.

              I like to refer to him as JACKASS!?

            • Richard Long

              For sure, some of his antics were an embarrassment, as many of the WT blind visioneering and illogical interpretations we have pasted to us today are.

              I’m trying to be like Robert and recognize them as the true children of God they (Russell, at least) were, warts and all, so I can forgive myself for being such a sucker and move forward. Really, come on out to the house and examine my life closely, and I’m pretty sure Rutherford will appear stable. lol

            • Joseph S.

              I’m sure he did some good, and Jehovah will look upon him favorably . But exploiting the contributions for your personal gain and creature comforts , doesn’t sit well with me……….

            • Joseph S.
            • Richard Long

              I hear you, brother! And his hubris is dwarfed by that of the current batch of superfine apostles.

            • KB

              I don’t think an extra few years would of done the trick. Maybe life on paradise earth would.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Mmmm…you might have a point there KB.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              in the same timeperiode as you mention..i am not sure about exact year…but there is no doubt that jehovah with Jesus Christ did someting very spesial around the time of 1914…after all Jehovahs people where “reinvented” ore “set free” in those spesial years back then.That would never happend without Jehovahs spirit…and there was some serious cleansing as well amoung the annointed (the temple)…a lot of biblestudents had to leave…many who claimed to be annointed,was not…sinse then there has been a long wandering in the wilderness..we are now on the doorstep of the promised land…Moses did not enter..Elijah on the other hand fits very well to take over the lead as the second witness.
              Moses was the witness that Jehovah used to free his people out of slavery.
              (like the first biblestudents got their freedom from slavery under the greater farao..satans system of false religion)
              Elijah was the witness that Jehovah used to cleanse his own people from baal-worship..and to let the people know that all the 850 baalpriests and and their prophets where false and even their king and queen(Jesabel) where bad and had to go.(Revelation 2:20-29)

            • Richard Long

              And isn’t it true that Jehovah regularly uses his enemies to accomplish his purposes, showing his superior wisdom as a tactician. If it were not such a sad sight to see, perhaps the loyal angels might get a nice chuckle out of watching the MOL repeatedly shooting themselves in the bum.

            • Huldah

              I do still want to know when you think the first cleansing was. Thanks.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Hi Hulda.
              Sorry for late reply..i am not on the web every day 🙂
              You ask for my personal view on this matter…then when i answer..just keep in mind that this is only something that i think is the case…so it might very well be wrong…

              I am not sure about any exact year..but i belive the first cleansing in our days happened in Rutherfords early years as president.
              “Moses” is the first “witness”…we know so well the account about the golden calf in exodus cap.32…remember how Russel focused on the parousia of Christ Jesus…and many bibelstudents reacted in a similar way as the Isrealites…(exodus 32:1 “Meanwhile,the people saw that Moses(Jesus) was taking a long time coming down from the mountain(heaven).So the people gathered around Aron(Rutherford) and said to him:”Get up,make for us a god who will go ahead for us,because we do not know what has happened to this Moses(Jesus),the man who led us up out of the land of Egypt”.

              Our days “first witness” …and by witness i refer to Matt.17:1-3 and Rev.11:3-4.”.Moses ” is the first who was not one single person but many …they took the lead in bringing Jehovahs people out of “Egypt”
              …out of satans system and on a long journey in the “wilderness” to learn to worship Jehovah and walk in His way..they become His people..known by His holy name..and had to be cleansed for the first time in those early years but all the way up until now they (Jehovahs witnesses his people) have done many stupid thing just like the Isrealites did the 40 years on their way to the promised land.

              I belive that we are on the edge of stepping over “Jordan”..and on the other side we have to go seven times/rounds (years) “Jerico”(satans system)…(GT)

              “Moses” the “first witness” has done his job at this time..its time for the “second witness” to take over…”Elijah”…and the second and last cleansing of Jehovahs “temple” will take place (1Pet.4:17)
              I belive we are there any moment now…

              So in short…the first cleansing in modern days (last) is over..about 100 years ago..(the last days in Noahs days was 120 years)

              The second cleansing is right around the corner..

              The cleansing has to do with the temple (the annointed ones)

            • The Raven

              If I am not mistaken, the “inspection” comes first along with the dictators fleeing. That may be the first cleansing at the beginning of tribulation.

              This may be of some use:

              https://e-watchman.com/valley-of-vision/

              Excerpt:
              “Just as old Jerusalem was the City of David because it produced the messianic king, the Watchtower has produced a generation of anointed persons, both faithful and unfaithful, who comprise a spiritual house of God that Christ will yet inspect. His inspection is set in the context of war. So it is, the next span of verses in the 22nd chapter of Isaiah speak to the coming global war and the collapse of the city-like organization that comes under Christ’s inspection. ”

              The second “cleansing” occurs later while the eighth king rules and judgement begins.

            • The Raven

              Similar to when he threw out the moneychangers, Christ inspects and the bean counters bug out leaving the ship rudderless for the first part of the tribulation.

              Excerpt:
              https://e-watchman.com/valley-of-vision/
              “Back in the 2nd chapter of Isaiah Jehovah addressed himself to the dictators of his people who had not cared for the widows or fatherless boys. Nevertheless, God expressed his desire to set matters straight with his erring people, so that their sins, though red as scarlet, might become white as snow.
              So, the “dictators” who flee the besieged “town” are the elders of Christ’s congregation. Appropriately, the New World Translation uses the word “dictators” – as opposed to “leaders,” as most other translations render the verse.”

              The future coming of Christ will confront Jehovah’s Witnesses with the unsettling reality that not only have they been duped into merely believing a falsehood, but virtually every publisher and pioneer has personally participated in a campaign to convince the world of what amounts to a fraud. It is a very serious thing to speak and teach lies in the name of Jehovah.”

            • Bklyn Kevin

              More food for thought
              You Will Have to Know I Am Jehovah
              https://e-watchman.com/you-will-have-to-know-that-i-am-jehovah/

              Search results for: cleansing
              https://e-watchman.com/?s=+cleansing

            • The Raven

              https://e-watchman.com/with-judgment-and-by-the-spirit-of-burning-down/
              excerpt:
              “Did not Jesus similarly clean out the moneychangers from God’s earthly temple as a last act in his earthly ministry, which serves as a portent of his work as the messenger of the (new) covenant and the appointed laundryman destined to carry out the ultimate, fiery cleansing of the spiritual temple, as related in the third chapter of Malachi? Reasonably, then, the cleansing of the spiritual temple takes place immediately before the beginning of the new world.”

            • Arvid Fløysand

              If you compare those two cleansings of the temple by Jesus with the forshadowed cleansings done earlier by Ezra and Nehemjah…than you will see that it all had to do with Jehovahs own people…no use in cleanse anything else than the one and only true temple and what concern the true worship of Jehovah.
              There is also of major importance that all points in direction of rebuilding of the temple and to restore the true and pure worship of Jehovah…
              Look for the paralells…Ezra was priest and knew the law of Jehovah (Ezra 7:21)
              He was like a “first witness” that came to Jerusalem and cleansed and restored the true whorship..restored the altar first
              Later on came Nehemjah…he was governor(almost king) (Nehemjah 5:14)
              He arrived some years after Ezra and was like a “second witness” who also came to cleanse and restore…the temple and citywall was fully restored by him
              So Ezra a judge, priest (prophet) and Nehemjah a “king” and judge…
              Elijah was a prophet (priest)…Moses was a judge, prophet (king)
              The chose nation of Israel was led by judges for 490 years..
              by kings for 490 years..and by priest for 490 years..and with prophets amoung them in all tree periods of time…
              All types of ruling systems been “tested out”…they failed but when they all are given to the right one…then everything is sure going to be perfectly restored and put in right order..:-)
              Jesus a judge, prophet,high-priest and king of kings…as Melkizedek…:-)…amen

            • Beverly kenyon

              Jesus is more than qualified, King of Kings, Priest in the manner of Melchezidek. Amen.

            • The Raven

              Maybe The first cleansing coincides with war breaking out at the start of the tribulation and the mortal wounding of the anglo /american 7th beast. This will go on for 3.5 years until the eight king, the revived beast rises. He will rule for 3.5 years and then, the end will come. Total 7 years?
              I would think a cleansing would have involved ousting the evil influences, not cementing them if that had already happened.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Bklyn Kevin Leonard k • a year ago
              It’s not what I’m suggesting, that’s what the bible is suggesting

              I’m just saying I’ve noticed whether it’s 70 weeks of years or a literal seven years Jehovah always seems to stay within his divine boundary of seven when accomplishing his purpose, so then why wouldn’t it be the same for the tribulations

              I think the Tribulation refers to a full seven year period while the “Great Tribulation” refers to the second half of the Tribulation witch is three and one half years.

              Lets say that the great tribulation is going to be 3 ½ years like the bible clearly states, then how do we explain Daniel’s 1,290 days as well as his 1.335 days which go over the 3 ½ year time period?.
              Obviously It just does not make any sense at all unless you use a seven year time period or 2,520 days .

              Now 2,520 Days equal
              Seven years and is symbolic of one Biblical week. See Daniel 9:24-27.
              There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your
              people and your holy city.

              First half of the week is 3 ½ years or—–1,260 days
              Second half of the week is 3 ½ years or-1,260 days
              Now add > 1.260 days +1,260 days—-= 2,520 days

              Now subtract Daniel’s 12:11 prophetic days -1.290
              that would mean the disgusting thing gets put
              In place In the first half of the week on day = 1,230

              In the first half of the week on day 1 – one of the heads of the wild beast will be inflicted with a sword-stroke only to revive and put the disgusting thing in place on day 1,230 and misleads everyone on the earth.

              Let the reader take note that the interval between the wild beast
              sword-stroke and the disgusting thing being put in place is the beginning of the time period for meting out divine justice when the four apocalyptic horsemen ride and men become faint out of fear because of the anguish of the nation’s not knowing the way out. Luke 21:25-27 Revelation 6:1-4.

              All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
              Matthew 24:8

              It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the
              signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it
              tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. Revelation 13:14.
              And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they
              will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature. And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation. Daniel 11:31.

              The disgusting thing that causes desolation will be put in place on day 1,230 in the first half of the week when the seven headed beast revives and springs into the eighth king. Revelation 17:11. At this point – Daniel’s 1,290 days begins.

              Excerpt: How will the end come for the Watchtower?.
              The coming of Christ will coincide with the world erupting in war, the spread of disease pandemics and widespread food shortages. Then, following swiftly will come the Crash – the complete collapse of the political and economic system.

              Jehovah’s Witnesses will then be subjected to an intense period of confusion and doubt. And as Jesus foretold, many will be stumbled.

              Although the Watchtower will be discredited and quite likely cease functioning as a Bible and tract publishing society, apparently it will still exist in some form. But at that point it will stand in complete opposition to Christ. It will then be an antichrist.
              Read more> https://e-watchman.com/how-

              Read more>
              The meaning of the 7 times of Nebuchadnezzar’s madness?
              https://e-watchman.com/the-seven-times-of-nebuchadnezzar/

            • The Raven

              Kevin, what do you think about the inspection?

              If I am not mistaken, the “inspection” comes first along with the dictators fleeing. That may be the first cleansing at the beginning of tribulation.
              This may be of some use:
              https://e-watchman.com/vall
              Excerpt:
              “Just as old Jerusalem was the City of David because it produced the messianic king, the Watchtower has produced a generation of anointed persons, both faithful and unfaithful, who comprise a spiritual house of God that Christ will yet inspect. His inspection is set in the context of war. So it is, the next span of verses in the 22nd chapter of Isaiah speak to the coming global war and the collapse of the city-like organization that comes under Christ’s inspection. ”
              The second “cleansing” occurs later while the eighth king rules and judgement begins.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I can only confirm one inspection that had occured in the past and that was approximately 2000 years ago when Jesus threw down the money changers and he would not let anyone carry a utensil through the temple.
              This would have been the first inspection and of course we’re waiting for his second coming which would be the second and final inspection .
              And when he got nearby, he viewed the city and wept over it, saying: “If you, even you, had discerned on this day the things having to do with peace—but now they have been hidden from your eyes. Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification of pointed stakes and will encircle you and besiege you from every side. They will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.”
              Then he entered the temple and started to throw out those who were selling, saying to them: “It is written, ‘My house will be a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a cave of robbers
              Luke 19:42-46.
              They now came to Jerusalem. There he entered the temple and started to throw out those selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves, and he would not let anyone carry a utensil through the temple.
              Mark 11:15, 16
              Read a lot more> Search results for: second coming
              https://e-watchman.com/?s=second+coming+

            • The Raven

              Many thanks Kevin for taking the time to reply!
              🙂

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Please read brother Roberts articles which are very informative with deep insight.
              link -Read a lot more> Search results for: second coming
              https://e-watchman.com/?s=second+coming+

            • The Raven

              Will do. Thanks again!

            • The Raven

              Pretty much along the same lines. I wish I had seen this but I’m having a difficult time with seeing even my own comments and editing them for some reason. Thanks, Kevin.

        • Huldah

          Hi Arvid
          You seem a good person to direct this question to.

          Robert has stated that “the generation that does not pass away” starts at the true parousia in the future.

          The generation in the first century spanned 40 years after Jesus death to 70 CE

          The final “generation” period starts with the fall of the US.

          How do we know it won’t last 40 years like the first generation?

          Ezekiel 29:11 says Egypt/US will not be inhabited 40 years.

          I have some answers myself but want to hear from others on this. All comments welcome.

          • The Raven

            Good question. I’m wondering who that applies to. The anointed or the great crowd?

            • Huldah

              My take is that it applies to all of the current generation as a simple measuring stick for the time period. It’s not going to be that long. As the fig tree leaves shows the end is near. I think WTO read too much into it because they wanted a specific sign as we all do, really. We tend to over analyze every word of Jesus.

              I am a bit concerned the period may be longer than we think, due to what is said in Ezekiel. Though, I do think it will come early in the generation rather than at the tail end.

              Of course there is some precedent for 3.5 year time periods and the 40 years in the first instance encompassed the preaching work, which sort of puts the first fulfillment in a different category than the upcoming one. Also we have the issue of the danger of complete annihilation if it doesn’t end fairly quickly as Robert has said.

              Matt 24:22

              22In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Huldah, are you telling me that there is a forty year period after the start of the tribulation? ☹️

            • Huldah

              I’m not telling anybody anything. But I sure would like to discuss this one with all the great minds here:)

            • Burt Reynolds

              Well what was said then that gave you that impression? I understood that it was three and a half years? Is this wrong?

            • Huldah

              Ezek 29:11 says “Egypt” lies desolate 40 years. That bugs me a bit. Then I realized that the generation starts when the true parousia starts or thereabouts. The first “generation” of the Jews lasted 40 years. I listed off some reasons why 40 years is too long. It just bugs me that there is a parallel. There are specific 3.5 year periods mentioned too. Robert has said that he believes a long drawn out parousia is improbable due to the intensity of the events that would lead to annihilation in short order so that’s a comfort as is the idea that “the days will be cut short” on account of the chosen. You guys have been ’round here longer than I so don’t let lil’ ole me put a bee in your bloomers.

              The problem with me is that “inquiring minds want to know”…everything right now.

            • Richard Long

              “input…. input….INPUT!!!”

              name that movie.

            • Huldah

              Now I wanna watch Short Circuit. Ahhh nostalgia.

            • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

              Yes I also thought of this Ezek 29:11 says “Egypt” lies desolate 40 years. What is your opinion? Any input from you I am ready to examine.

            • Richard Long

              Maybe Nukes or pestilences render America or parts of it uninhabitable for 40 years?

            • The Raven

              Maybe we need to look for a figurative meaning?

              https://e-watchman.com/coming-storm/

              Excerpt:
              “In the 32nd chapter of Ezekiel Egypt is depicted as a great marine monster that gets caught in the trapper’s net. Then in grisly imagery the prophecy states: “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘I will also spread over you my net by means of a congregation of many peoples, and they will certainly bring you in my dragnet. And I must abandon you on the land. Upon the surface of the field I shall hurl you. And on you I will cause all the flying creatures of the heavens to reside, and off you I will satisfy the wild beasts of the whole earth. And I will put your flesh upon the mountains and fill the valleys with the refuse of you. And I will cause the land to drink up your discharged matter, from your blood, upon the mountains; and streambeds themselves will be filled up from you.’”

              The beasts of the earth feeding upon the blood and discharged matter of the fallen kingdom must portray the complete economic dissolution of America. A few years ago such a thing might have been considered as laughable. Now many sober-minded persons think it is inevitable.”

            • Huldah

              Yes this is what Robert describes in his book about the sea monster Egypt and the US. I had wondered if it was the same “body” or carcass Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 where the eagles/vultures gather. Thats what my Rahab the Carcass post on the forum is about.

              If there is a literal 40 yrs it would follow that it would be after the financial crash. Br. Bas has said he thinks there may be a transition period before the 8th king gets established but 40 yrs seems way too long.

              I’ll read the article you linked and reply later.

            • The Raven

              Huldah you need to read the replies I made to Burt on this matter. The 40 years is a bust for a number of reasons.

            • Huldah

              I guess I’d like to find more clues as to what the forty yrs is before I bank on what it’s not.

            • The Raven

              Did you look at the other comments in this?

            • The Raven

              What do the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation apply to if not the last days? I’d like to know what you think they mean. Thanks.

            • The Raven

              Well here’s another 40 years that does not work for the end. How would this even be possible? Are we to believe that Jehovah gathers “Egypt” which is Americans back from exile and then makes them a small nation? What about the seventh beast of the anglo/american recovering from the mortal wound and becoming the eighth king?. Isn’t judgment to commence once the beast revives? And where does it say that americans will be captives anywhere else in scripture concerning the last days?

              Lets look at the rest of this as well:
              11 Neither man nor livestock will pass through it on foot,+ and it will not be inhabited for 40 years. 12 I will make the land of Egypt the most desolate of lands, and its cities will be the most desolate of cities for 40 years;+ and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands.”+
              13 “‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “After 40 years I will gather back the Egyptians from the peoples where they were scattered;+ 14 I will bring the Egyptian captives back to the land of Pathʹros,+ to the land of their origin, and there they will become an insignificant kingdom. 15 Egypt will become lower than the other kingdoms and will no longer dominate the other nations,+ and I will make them so small that they will not be able to subdue other nations.+ 16 It will never again be a source of confidence for the house of Israel,+ but it will only remind them of their error in turning to the Egyptians for help. And they will have to know that I am the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”’”

            • Burt Reynolds

              Interesting point. Just as an aside, with far superior forces and with the assistance of two other nations, Egypt could not conquer Israel in the six day war. The Israelites drew them into a net and squashed them!

            • The Raven

              I view the modern day nation state of Israel as no different than any other nation state. And all the nations will be judged.

            • Richard Long

              I’m with Raven. Egypt isn’t THAT Egypt any longer, nor is Israel THAT Israel. So, irrelevant, no?

            • The Raven

              Context is very important in this. You make a very good point. There are many very valid comparisons as Robert showed us in identifying Egypt with the US and Tyre with the UK. I think his work is accurate.
              But we need to look at the final solution of those prophecies. That’s what Robert has done and Kevin has also backed this up.
              The old fulfillment may not work out the same way for the new Egypt and Israel.
              We know the eighth king rises from the dual seventh.
              We also know that Israel is not the carnal state of the Jews, but a new one led by Christ. I try hard not to forget that some prophecy applied in a specific way to only a specific group, not necessarily to the modern day counterpart in its entirety.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I was just drawing a parallel between the figurative and the actual in that both issues have retained substance!

            • The Raven

              That’s cool.

            • Richard Long

              To be true. Plenty of scholarly people make compelling arguments with mountains of “evidence” for the continued relevance of corporeal Israel.

            • Richard Long

              So… interesting tidbit regarding Pathros….

              Excerpt from Insight, v2 p585
              “Following the desolation of Judah by Nebuchadnezzar, a remnant of the Jews fled into Egypt. Among the places listed in which they dwelt are Migdol, Tahpanhes, Noph (all cities of Lower Egypt), and “the land of Pathros.” (Jer 44:1) Here they engaged in idolatrous worship, resulting in Jehovah’s condemnation of them and the warning of a coming conquest of Egypt by Nebuchadnezzar. (Jer 44:15, 26-30) Papyrus evidence of the fifth century B.C.E. shows a Jewish colony situated all the way at the southern end of ancient Egypt at Elephantine by Syene.”

            • The Raven

              Interesting, but still doesn’t work for final days.

            • Richard Long

              Applies here, No?

              “resulting in Jehovah’s condemnation of them and the warning of a coming conquest of Egypt by Nebuchadnezzar. (Jer 44:15, 26-30) ”

              Specifically, Egypt was king of the south, Nebu the king of the north.

            • The Raven

              As far as judgement goes much of what is prophesied can apply to Egypt and Tyre. To a point.
              But the time is important. So are the circumstances of the ancient world versus the modern one.
              The assets for the eighth king to rule are all still there even as the seventh falls. After he recovers, those assets combined with others rule the entire earth.
              A prophecy that has Egyptians all exiled and led off as captives for 40 years can’t work given what we know in specific detail from Daniel and Jesus Christ.

            • Richard Long

              ok. but…

              Don’t apply it to the parousia. Will it work if we apply it to the “pushing”

              If we think that America, king of the south, (where the MOL corporation has sought refuge) has not been (for decades) and is not NOW captive to London, king or the north, and having it’s bones picked clean, were deluded, right?

            • The Raven

              I believe I commented on that a while ago where I posted Robert’s work on this. In a figurative way, yes that’s true.
              But applying some of these prophecies literally obviously makes no sense in view of all other scripture about the final days.

            • Richard Long

              No position on prophesy to support here. However, Robert has tied the prophesy to the crash, and the crash to the culmination of the “pushing”. The two kings sit at the same table and the KOTN eats the KOTS’s lunch.
              Robert cites plenty of Larouche’s EIR material to show the mechanics of just how London feeds off of America.

              Without data, just my observation, it seems that since ardent push towards “deregulation” in the Reagan years, the balance really shifted to the Banksters and the “American system” Larouche talks about has truly gone into “exile”. True , the assets are still “here”, but who holds title to them?

              These happenings might well fit into the 40 year aspect of the prophesy we are discussing. I’m just asking, not telling. Were we right, are we sure, that the Egypt in exile prophesy applies to the parousia specifically? It appears to be a judgement, and Robert plainly stated the parousia is the restoration. Just asking.

            • The Raven

              The original question here was asking if the tribulation can last 40 years, the span of a generation. There was an allusion made that the land would be uninhabitable for 40 years and that was also a basis for supporting that belief.
              In fact I can find no scriptural basis to support that idea and apparently neither can Robert or Kevin.
              Separately the financial aspect of this prophecy does have bearing on this and it can apply to the pushing. But that’s as far as I can go with this.

            • Richard Long

              So maybe the question be better redirected to Huldah? Are we right to place the Egypt in exile prophesy within the parousia to begin with?

              I agree with you that 40 years is absolutely incongruent with our more clear, undeluded undertstanding of the parousia that Robert has provided. That it is such an outlier prompts one to ask where it DOES belong, rather than how does it fit.

            • The Raven

              That’s what I have been saying here. Instead of trying to shove this into the accounts of the actual tribulation, which won’t fit, the prophecies may have significance elsewhere, outside of that timeline. There are many conditions leading up to the tribulation and I don’t think anyone disagrees with the figurative descriptions of the financial ruin of the US. I certainly do not.

            • The Raven

              I hope you understand that I am not saying these things because I don’t want the tribulation to last 40 years. I have explored that possibility and found that there is no reason to think it can, based on other scripture concerning the last days.
              Personally I’m with Burt on this. Who in their right mind would not be appalled at the prospect of that length of time for all this?
              But reasoning from scripture and some very descriptive and detailed accounts of the final days and months has shown us that a 40 year tribulation is not workable in more ways than one.
              Consider also the cold hard facts of the world’s armies and governments Consider what the goal is here. It is complete domination and forcing God’s people to make a choice in a short span of time while they are still reeling from collapse and war.

            • Richard Long

              I get it!

            • The Raven

              🙂 I know you and a number of others here do also.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Questions considered in August podcast: listen more>
              https://e-watchman.com/podcast-62/
              .
              2) Since there is no historical proof that Egypt was literally desolate for 40 years, is it possible that the judgment applies to the greater “Egypt” – America, only for 40 days instead?

            • The Raven

              Thank you, Kevin. That makes perfect sense. I couldn’t find a way to justify the 40 year deal at all. But 40 days. YEP!

            • The Raven

              I am really glad you gave me that link for the podcast. Now that Robert has explained it in a clearer fashion I feel as if this matter has pretty much been put to rest. His explanation does satisfy me. Thanks a lot Kevin.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I’m glad to be of some help. PS keep up the great commenting and research.
              I have been following you brothers and sisters along and have gained some new perspectives thank you guys for that much appreciated.

            • The Raven

              Thank you. You have a very valuable talent for finding just what we need and I appreciate that very much, Kevin. I am glad this site has someone like you to help explore it.

            • The Raven

              In fact here is my comment from just two days ago:

              https://e-watchman.com/comi

              Excerpt:
              “In the 32nd chapter of Ezekiel Egypt is depicted as a great marine monster that gets caught in the trapper’s net. Then in grisly imagery the prophecy states: “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘I will also spread over you my net by means of a congregation of many peoples, and they will certainly bring you in my dragnet. And I must abandon you on the land. Upon the surface of the field I shall hurl you. And on you I will cause all the flying creatures of the heavens to reside, and off you I will satisfy the wild beasts of the whole earth. And I will put your flesh upon the mountains and fill the valleys with the refuse of you. And I will cause the land to drink up your discharged matter, from your blood, upon the mountains; and streambeds themselves will be filled up from you.’”

              The beasts of the earth feeding upon the blood and discharged matter of the fallen kingdom must portray the complete economic dissolution of America. A few years ago such a thing might have been considered as laughable. Now many sober-minded persons think it is inevitable.”

            • Richard Long

              Raven, I follow your comments like day traders follow the market! Just so you know, sometimes I index your comments on Disqus, just to make sure I haven’t missed one. And I didn’t miss this one. lol

            • The Raven

              What I have gleaned from all these matters comes from those far wiser than I. I have been making very good use of the literature here to help me understand these things.

            • Richard Long

              Right. And I am recognizing an adeptness at cataloging, compartmentalizing, and accessing what you have gleaned for the benefit and to the up-building of all here. To save time I will now just go ahead and recognize the very appropriate humility shown, as it so greatly enhances the beauty of your assured confidence. Let’s stop before I get all mushy. lol

            • The Raven

              LOL! Like I told Kevin a while back, I’m here to learn.

            • Huldah

              This parallels the Jew’s trust in ancient Egypt as the modern JW trust in the security of the Anglo economic system.

            • The Raven

              Good. I agree. You should look for clues to what if anything that applies to. But, once we see that injecting something into a place where it does not fit or agree with many other scriptures, then we discount that as a possibility in that instance. Correct?

            • The Raven

              That period is only appx 3.5 years. NOT 40.
              Go here:
              https://e-watchman.com/the-seven-times-of-nebuchadnezzar/

            • The Raven

              Lets look at the rest of this as well:

              11 Neither man nor livestock will pass through it on foot,+ and it will not be inhabited for 40 years. 12 I will make the land of Egypt the most desolate of lands, and its cities will be the most desolate of cities for 40 years;+ and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands.”+
              13 “‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “After 40 years I will gather back the Egyptians from the peoples where they were scattered;+ 14 I will bring the Egyptian captives back to the land of Pathʹros,+ to the land of their origin, and there they will become an insignificant kingdom. 15 Egypt will become lower than the other kingdoms and will no longer dominate the other nations,+ and I will make them so small that they will not be able to subdue other nations.+ 16 It will never again be a source of confidence for the house of Israel,+ but it will only remind them of their error in turning to the Egyptians for help. And they will have to know that I am the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”’”

              Since only God’s people survive Armageddon I would ask who does this apply to and when?

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Huldah, I would prefer to have a bee in my bloomers than not know! Have a read of what Raven sent to me and there are some articles that Robert wrote he copied in too. I’m going to go through it again and perhaps when you have read it you could let me know what you think. As to knowledge, Einstein pointed out, I think rightly, that the more we know, enlightens us to the fact that we know a great deal less than we think we do. For instance, if you travel at the speed of light, then time stands still. If time stands still, then there is no distance relatively speaking from the point of view of the observer, because it takes no time to travel between A and B. ( even though you are travelling at 186,000 per sec per sec). Therefore the universe is flat and on the same plane and presumably, both objects occupy the same space. Let me know when you work that little lot out and meanwhile, I will have a cup of tea and a crumpet. ‘Where were you when the foundation of the world was laid’ springs to mind. I suppose if we have to go on another 40 years, what bugs me is that I won’t be there to see it. Whether that is a good thing or not remains to be seen, but unfortunately by some one else, not me. Sigh…..how long Jehovah!

            • The Raven

              Well it also says that Egypt will not have an inhabitant for 40 years and that doesn’t work. 300 million people will not just disappear and the eighth beast rises from the former dual headed seventh. So Egypt is still inhabited.
              It appears that the 7 year yardstick is accurate. Not because the org says so but because scripture seems to be clear on those events. 40 years is unsustainable given thermonuclear weapons. Nations collapse overnight and that conflagration spreads quickly.
              We are missing something about the “inspection”. We may have to look at what has changed concerning the org to give us an idea when or if they have been inspected.
              I cannot help but think that what has occurred within the last decades with them has great bearing on this.
              It is apart from the cleansing.
              I don’t see this as trying to pin down the onset of the tribulation, but rather trying to make sure we haven’t missed any signs of its nearness.

            • The Raven

              Another thought about the aftermath of the seventh beast’s downfall is that a power vacuum will not be permitted to exist for long given what the devil’s goal here is.
              3.5 years is ample time for the rise of the eighth king. In fact as Continuity of Operations & Continuation of Government (COOP & COG) policies are initiated during a collapse or war, all they have to do is wait in their bunkers and come up fully prepared to implement complete control. 40 years will not be acceptable to those who started the war. Their aim is to benefit from it in their lifetimes. “Everybody wants to rule the world.”

            • Richard Long

              Right… It’s not like the elites have been planning against that end of America. Rather they have been planning for it! Souls have been bought, assets have been prepared, currencies have been printed.

            • The Raven

              Yes. They can manage 3-4 years in bunkers and secret hardened facilities. It seems to me that generation is very important to the devil since they did most of the preaching work. They are the ones who have been misled all these years and must survive through this to be tested. They will be old or dead if 40 years from start to finish is true.

            • Huldah

              As regards the Jews, Jesus said they were destroyed because they did not discern the time of their being inspected. This was his 3.5 yr ministry.
              The actual destruction was of course 40 years later.

              Interestingly. The destruction of Herod’s temple occurred just a few years after it was completed and dedicated.
              Oddly the new branch complex is to be dedicated in October at Annual meeting.
              Wonder if there is a parallel.

            • The Raven

              That has no bearing on the final generation for numerous reasons. That generation all died. There is not going to be another earthly temple. The next generation will not die. Heavens kingdom rules.
              Bottom line Huldah, 40 years is unworkable given what we know from Daniel and Revelation unless of course you choose to ignore all of this:

              And this:The Raven Burt Reynolds a day ago

              I can find no way to shoehorn 40 years into tribulation. So I don’t really know why it is even a question. I see no way for that to apply for the time period of the end. To state that the generation will not pass does not mean that tribulation will last for a generation. That’s all I can tell you about Huldah’s question.

              Here is a wealth of information I found on the end times. :
              https://e-watchman.com/jeho
              Excerpt:
              “If the prophecies are allowed to interpret themselves, then it is necessary for any would-be-interpreter of the Scriptures to recognize that the 11th chapter of Revelation relates to the prophecy of Christ that says: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” Since the connection is obvious, it is also apparent that the “appointed times” equal 42 months. Combined with the related prophecies of Daniel regarding the time, times and half a time the holy ones are to be trampled on during the time of the end, it is apparent that the “appointed times” of Christ’s prophecy relate to the length of the tribulation, during which time God’s people are dominated by the nations. (Interestingly, it was roughly 42 months from the time the Roman armies first encamped against Jerusalem until the city was destroyed.)”
              Burt, it would be a great help to see how this is interpreted to go to the comments section on this article. I agree with Kevin in this matter concerning the seven times. But others take the view of a literal 3.5 – 4 years. Since we do not have all the information as of yet, that’s the best we can do, and AFAIC it’s scripturally sound reasoning. You decide.
              https://e-watchman.com/the-
              Excerpt:
              “The coming of Christ in kingdom power is no ordinary event. It initiates the day of Jehovah – judgment day. The ouster of Satan from heaven will have the knock-on effect of striking a withering blow to the ruling earthly kingdom under the Devil’s dominion. The fall of the symbolic Egyptian cedar foreshadows the coming crash of America. The entire global system will shudder. But the beast will arise like the fabled phoenix for a time, just as the maddened king was briefly restored to his throne. (See article: Downfall of America)
              The seventh chapter of Daniel harmonizes with the extension given to the beasts after the time the kingdom is given to Christ. Daniel 7:12 states: “But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season.”
              So, the seven times may apply to the period of judgment that will commence in the aftermath of the fall of the leading nation of the world. It may be that the seven times are a literal seven years or simply a symbolic period. Time will tell. (No pun intended.)
              But, we may be certain that during that period all people will be forced to know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind. ”
              Read what Kevin wrote about this as he goes into great detail on the significance of seven throughout scripture and Nebuchadnezzar’s madness.
              https://e-watchman.com/the-

              I await your reply to these articles and matters Robert and Kevin have so splendidly explained.

            • Huldah

              I intend to read it more closely later and reply with some detail.
              I am playing devil’s advocate with the 40 years. I agree with the arguments against. I’m just wanting to dig a bit more. 40days is possible, reversing the day for a year idea, which was brought up by a questioner in a podcast from Robert.

            • The Raven

              The prophecy is given in months and days, not years for the duration of tribulation.
              In fact the wto has reversed that prophecy to years to try to cram their false parousia and the end of the appointed time of the nations as having occurred in 1914. They do not even apply it to the final days as do Daniel and Revelation.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Questions considered in August podcast: listen more>
              Podcast episode #62 https://e-watchman.com/podc
              .
              2) Since there is no historical proof that Egypt was literally desolate for 40 years, is it possible that the judgment applies to the greater “Egypt” – America, only for 40 days instead?

            • Richard Long

              I looked into that.
              First, disclaimer: I’m a student not a teacher.

              I did a search on web and JW.org, could find no instances of the a prophetic year equalling a literal day. Of course we do have many instances of a prophetic day prefiguring a literal year.

              The instances of “a year for a day” were specific sentences for specific offences, like “Spied 40 days, wander 40 years”.

              And, still cannot confirm whether we ought to be applying the Egypt in exile to the parousia/restoration phase 3 or the last days/judgement phase 2?

            • The Raven

              I don’t know if you’ve seen this but Kevin posted it. I agree with what Robert has to say about this and he answers a number of other questions concerning tribulation.

              Questions considered in August podcast: listen more>
              Podcast episode #62 https://e-watchman.com/podc
              .
              2) Since there is no historical proof that Egypt was literally desolate for 40 years, is it possible that the judgment applies to the greater “Egypt” – America, only for 40 days instead?

            • Richard Long

              Listening to it now.

            • Richard Long

              OK, so I heard Robert say the 40 day exile is workable as an alternative to a 40 year exile, only because the longer one would be completely unworkable within the context of the 8th King’s reign. Did you hear him commit to that? I heard him say he had no position on it but to encourage us to continue looking into it.

            • The Raven

              It doesn’t matter if he committed to it. The explanation fits in a figurative sense where the physical one fails. But there are a number of other reasons besides what he stated that I think he is right as I’ve commented here.
              It’s interesting that there is no historical evidence that Egypt was ever uninhabited. I did not know that. That makes his view a lot more reasonable than others.
              The prophecies concerning the last days are all given in days and months. Maybe if we are to apply prophecies for Egypt from an ancient fulfillment to today we might keep that in mind and see if that explanation fits.

            • Richard Long

              Yeah, I didn’t mean to imply he had to commit to it for your reasoning to be sound. I was just reporting what I heard, or more specifically, how I heard it, which is completely irrelevant. Honestly, this particular prophesy/mystery doesn’t call to me to be resolved as it evidently does for you and Huldah. I’m just your faithful sidekick/sounding board along for the ride for this one.

            • The Raven

              Sure, I understand. Some things pull you and others don’t. Huldah and I differ widely on this issue and I agree with Robert after digging into this extensively. That podcast opened up a clearer view. These discussions make for some very interesting avenues of exploration. Some are dead ends, others are rabbit holes, some lead to gems and some have a pot of something or other at the end. lol

            • The Raven

              The descriptions of this event are nothing short of catastrophic and shattering. It is not really something which can be explained by the slow burn of financial maneuverings we’ve been subjected to over the decades with the federal reserve and the London banks.
              If I were to pick a time when this began, I would be hard pressed to come up with a particular point. So IMO a 40 year view doesn’t really fit the bill.
              This appears to be a fast and sweeping event which will take everyone by surprise. It will break everyone at once. It would have to be part of the beginning as I don’t see how world governments are going to be able to manage it. 2008 didn’t even come close to the descriptions here and that was bad.

            • Richard Long

              Agree with your reasoning. Still don’t have any kind of a strong sense of its meaning yet, but yes a 40 day recovery time from seventh to eighth king sounds reasonable. Folks would be getting good and hungry by then.

            • The Raven

              I was in the blackout in NYC during the 70’s. I remember it lasting a few days and I have also lived through a number of hurricanes here in Florida where we had no power for weeks.
              Trust me when I tell you things can go from calm to bad stupid in no time.
              Especially when folks think there is no one in control.

            • Huldah

              I agree that the backwards day for a year is a bit of a stretch. Not sure there is any precedent for switching the equation.

              I need to reread what you wrote on the last days application. It seemed you were trying to see if the 40 years fit retroactively.

            • Richard Long

              I was primarily being Raven’s sounding board, but yes, what if is a figurative exile for the 40 years leading up to the parousia. This is purely darts at the dartboard.

            • Huldah

              There is some logic in saying that the 40 years may apply to financial exile to the London financiers because of the dollar being taken off the gold standard or something to that effect. I’m not seeing a clear parallel but it is a valid suggestion.

            • Richard Long

              Well, I’m not falling on my sword for it, that’s for sure. lol

            • Huldah

              I had focused on the 40 year desolation being figurative and primarily relating to the financial collapse and plundering of the sea monster carcass ( It’s assets) rather than literal removal of all inhabitants, though exiles are mentioned.

              It’s a valid point that it says no inhabitants.
              This makes me think of the prophecy against Babylon. It was not fulfillrd until long after it’s status as a world power had ended. Perhaps this is a paradise prophecy.

              I have always believed that the survivors would make up pockets of people over the earth rather than be scattered all over. Naturally we would converge togethr.
              It makes sense that we would clean up the earth gradually from strategic points, allowing it itself to do much of its own natural cleansing by laying fallow for years.

              It is fitting that the US and all it stood for in opposition to Jehovah should lay fallow rotting and decaying until the remembrance of it is forgotten. The mighty United States, the “secure” money maven that all, even God’s servants put their trust in.
              Nothing, just like mighty Babylon. Personally, I’m pleased to think that the lofty branch buildings which are expected to be new world “temples” will actually rot away with the remainders of Satan’s system, after they have proved to be a test for God’s people. Of course.

              I’m fairly satisfied with that explanation.

            • The Raven

              The Egyptian/ American survivors? How would that work? I thought only God’s people survive Armegeddon. According to that prophecy, they return. Are you actually saying that Americans will go into exile, become captives and the US will be uninhabited for 40 years and then Americans will come back to be a small nation?
              Now after Armegeddon, anything goes. I can agree with that idea. But not during tribulation. 40 years does not work for tribulation.

            • The Raven

              After Armageddon anything goes. This may be the case. But not during tribulation. And it could still be the financial ruin as Robert says.

            • The Raven

              I am not completely satisfied with it as the prophecy states that Americans will be exiled and held captive. And then they will return to become an insignificant nation. . See, that’s also attached to it in the rest of the chapter. Unless you are looking strictly at the 40 period of desolation part and not the other?
              Maybe a partial fulfillment? Since I don’t think we will be identified as americans any longer? Just as Jehovah’s people.

            • Huldah

              Jehovah is very consistent. He prophesied the complete desolation of Babylon and it happened literally. It is likely the forty year desolation of actual Egypt happened too.

              Usually the first fulfillments are literal and the second is symbollic in some way.

              I can’t recall a time when Jehovah prophesied desolation on a nation in ancient times that did not happen physically and in actuality. Unless history is sketchy on whether it happened at all as with Egypt.
              In which case human scientists are wrong about evolution so I assume human historians can be wrong too.

              I wish there was something to be satisfief with from Robert on this specific question. He hasn’t offered his opinion, unfortunately. He’s not into conjecture and that’s understandable from his position.

              You made a good point about exile and return. This is also mentioned in Ezek.30:17.
              I don’t recall Robert mentioning this and what it signifies.

              The “Chaldean” or 8th king is capable of anything. It appears there may beboth symbollic and literal aspects to the fulfillment.

              We’ve looked at it closely and it hasn’t fit neatly anywhere yet. I’m going to keep this question on the back burner and keep filling in my gaps of understanding elsewhere. Maybe it will fall into place.

            • The Raven

              At this point, I’m inclined to agree with a symbolic or figurative angle to that prophecy. Until the rest of the knowledge is revealed to the anointed, this fits in many respects. Some of the prophecies related to Egypt like the marine monster are very graphic and detailed. I cannot see a literal explanation for it. But figuratively it does denote ruin. I think we agree on that. In that vein, They may have been physically inhabited as well, but not in any capacity as the power they were before. Their wealth and resources taken away, captive to return as an insignificant nation.

              This is a high speed world. War is delivered in hours or minutes by ICBMs. Trades occur in milliseconds on supercomputers that run the world’s markets. Information is disseminated live via satellite. That same network of instant information and delivery is what will be employed to bring about our downfall. I have no doubts this can occur in 40 days if correct.
              Consider the resources of the seventh beast. They are not completely gone. They are taken away, held captive in exile until the eighth king rises. He has the combined resources of the former dual seventh beast and the worlds governments all align with it. The “captives” now return to be insignificant on the world’s scene and are under the authority of the beast. The US no longer exists as it once did.
              The desolation is indicative of utter ruin and debasing as a former world leader. Similar to the ancient Egypt, but with one great difference; this is end-game.

            • Huldah
            • The Raven

              Ron Paul and Celente among many others have been warning about this. It is what I called the slow burn being pressed on us since the creation of the federal reserve. Richard commented that it appears all these entities have one thing in mind; the destruction of the US.
              But not just that…enslavement of the entire world. The economic globalization they have been working towards for almost a century is about to come to fruition. The goal was to chain us together so we would have no recourse once they crashed the system. That must happen before they can gain complete control.

              The BRIC nations pose a problem for the bankers since they are trying to insulate themselves from a coming disaster. This is where we see the potential for actual war to erupt based on some flimsy excuse or a false flag. Seems like any nation that does not fall in line with the US/UK is viewed as a potential enemy.

              To reiterate; first they tie all our shoelaces together ( economic and political globalization). Then we all trip( financial crash and war). Then they take over( NWO or the eighth king).
              That IMO will be fast and furious.

            • Richard Long

              Along those lines, let us also remember that the Eighth king even now sits as a prince in NYC (Egypt) awaiting his ascendancy.

            • The Raven

              “The two-horned lamb out of the earth symbolizes the Anglo-American duo after they recover from their now-impending crash.”

            • Richard Long

              Yeah, I’m just stating the obvious because we never really said it in reference to this Egypt in exile prophesy. When the time comes to for eighth king to seize the assets of Egypt, he doesn’t have to cross an ocean or even a bridge. He’s already got a palace in Turtle Bay.

              https://www.google.com/maps/place/United+Nations+Headquarters/@40.7283654,-74.0082979,13.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xc5fae28bdd3df635!8m2!3d40.7488758!4d-73.9680091

            • The Raven

              Robert’s explanation for this satisfies me. I viewed this matter as a figurative one since I could not see how this prophecy could apply before and even after Armageddon without being a partial chop job. Even then, it didn’t work. I did not know that there was no historical evidence for Egypt being uninhabited for 40 years either. So that would have to be figurative, as Robert said. But instead of years , given the volatility of financial markets it makes sense that an event like this would transpire very quickly. We see this with wild market swings in the thousand point range every so often and big banks go belly up.
              Crashes happen in hours as world wide markets react. 40 days is a very likely scenario for these events to become a crisis of huge proportions, dispossessing billions in a matter of mere weeks.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Remember there was/are two temples…the litteral and the spiritual.
              Even the apostles back then was not able to undersand that Jesus was talking about the spiritual temple,when he said the temple would be destroyed in tree days.
              The old spiritual temple was destroyed in tree days (from Jesu death to his ressurection)…the new spititual temple was build in those same tree days.

              Many looked at the litteral temple to be of greatest importance…it was not.

              What happened to the apostles and their misunderstanding of what kind of temple Jesus where talking about?
              Here comes the nuber 40 again…but in days…not in years.
              On the day of pentecost 40 days after Jesu return to heaven,they (only 120 of 500)
              got the promised holy spirit.(Acts chapter 1-2)
              From that moment on they understood everything they needed about the spiritual temple…it became clear to them all.

              What we see with the spiritual eyes is of far more importance than what we see going on in the material realm/world.

              And i aree with you that it is interesting to parallel the temple of Herod with the branch complex…both destined to be destroyed

              Keep on knocking on the door …:-)

            • The Raven

              quote Arvid:
              “Here comes the nuber 40 again…but in days…not in years.Jesus was with them in 40 days before he went back to heaven…then 10 days later”

              This may be significant in days as well, not years for the time between when the bride is gathered and then returns for the final battle. But until the rest of this is unsealed, what we do know about Daniel and Christ’s revelation to John is simple and direct. None of their prophecies about the last days come anywhere close to alluding that this can last forty years.

              There is a very good reason Daniel and John were given the details in months and days and not years. Those details support each other, they interpret each other. They were also told to be encouraged by the fact that this would not last very long at all. The scripture tells us to hang in there, hold on until this is over from the beginning til the end .

            • Huldah

              I guess I was thinking about the “disgusting thing” being in the holy place which was the literal temple. This will happen again soon. It will likely effect both the spiritual and physical” temple”
              Goid reminder to keep in mind on the spiritual temple.

            • Arvid Fløysand

              Hmmm…i see but i prefer to watch out for the “disgusting thing” placing themself in the spiritual holy place…satan operate like a magician..he want get our attensions away from what is really going on.
              I belive satan is making a scene/wing in his evil effort to hide everything connected with Jehovahs kingdom and Christ arrival…thats ofcourse the reason why we have to be on constant watch and be aware of the “leven”

            • The Raven

              I agree and here’s more on this from Robert’s work:

              https://e-watchman.com/jehovahs-witnesses-holy-place-prophecy/
              Excerpt:
              “The 8th chapter of Daniel also connects the holy place, the sanctuary and the constant feature with the “Prince of the army,” who is Christ. So, the “putting in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation” is in reference to the sanctuary of Jehovah, of which Christ is both the cornerstone and High priest. Given the similar content and wording of the prophecies of Daniel it should be evident to the discerning reader that the holy place that is destined to come to desolation and be trampled underfoot by the nations for an appointed time is the earthly domain of the holy ones – Christ’s true congregation. ”

              https://e-watchman.com/great-tribulation-holy-place/

              Excerpt:
              ” In spite of that disclaimer Bethel insists that the 1st century pattern is the sole basis for understanding what the holy place represents. That is simply wrong. As already stated, the interrelationship between the prophecies themselves is the basis for determining the correct interpretation.

              To demonstrate the principle, more than 20 years after the holy city of Jerusalem and Jehovah’s temple had been destroyed by the Romans, the apostle John received the Apocalypse, or Revelation. The 11th chapter foretells of another holy city of God that is destined to be trampled on by the nations for an appointed time of 42 months. Obviously, the holy city mentioned in Revelation is not the literal city of Jerusalem since it no longer even existed when Revelation was written. And yet we find the exact same phraseology Christ used in foretelling that the nations would trample on Jerusalem for a specified period of time. Furthermore, it is evident that the holy city mentioned in Revelation cannot represent Christendom, since God’s two prophets apparently dress in sackcloth to mourn the loss of the earthly aspect of God’s heavenly city.

              If the prophecies are allowed to interpret themselves, then it is necessary for any would-be-interpreter of the Scriptures to recognize that the 11th chapter of Revelation relates to the prophecy of Christ that says: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.”

              Since the connection is obvious, it is also apparent that the “appointed times” equal 42 months. Combined with the related prophecies of Daniel regarding the time, times and half a time the holy ones are to be trampled on during the time of the end, it is apparent that the “appointed times” of Christ’s prophecy relate to the length of the tribulation, during which time God’s people are dominated by the nations. (Interestingly, it was roughly 42 months from the time the Roman armies first encamped against Jerusalem until the city was destroyed.)”

            • Huldah

              Based on some of the signs Josephus relates about the time of the temple’s destruction, it does appear that the literal temple had a significant importance to Jehovah and the “disgusting thing” fulfillment happened to the physical temple. It didn’t happen to the anointed who fled, only in the sense that they had to be awake and flee anyway but no desolation.

              I do get what you mean about Satan’s slight of hand. I expect surprises.

          • The Raven

            The crowd won’t die, so then…

          • Arvid Fløysand

            After Jesus was ressurected, He did not show himself for everyone at the same time and on the same day…he showed himself first for some humble faithful womans..(maybe the last expected to be the very first one )…and when they told it to the apostles…they did not belive them.
            But at least the most eager of them (Peter and John ) ran on their way to check for themself…

            I belive the same goes for the parousia in our days…
            Jesus will come by surprice and “tap” on the shoulder to some of those who is the last ones to be expected to have that honor…and little bit later for some more “prominent” ones …

            The question is…when and who will know that the parousia has begun?

            We also know very well the account of the 120 who where gathered on the day of pentecost and the holy spirit came visible on everyones head like a thounge of flame…at that time it was very clear for those in that room but the visible flame was not visible when they went outside and the “whole” city came to that place.

            No visible sign on those 120 but those with the good intensions and with a good heart…belived because they “knew” the” voice”…
            They heard the good news in their own language ….
            while other who heard the same conclude that those 120 newly annointed ones where drunk…(Acts 2:1-13)

            They saw “these things happening” (Luk.21:29-31) but they did not draw the same conclusion..

            You are asking good questions…and you really want to know…just like most of us on this site do 🙂
            That is maybe more important than the answer itself because in that way we do what Jesus told us to do…be awake and ready…
            And while we do so it is very important to remember Jesu advise in Matt.24:23-28

  • irene evans

    Robert has said to get out of the Watchtower as soon as world war 3 starts…do you think he means to stop going to the meetings, and if so how do we help our brothers I only see them at meetings

    • e.v.g

      I believe what brother Robert said, the coming protection will not come from the watchotwer society, Jesus said:
      When the householder gets up and locks the door, you will stand outside knocking at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ But in answer he will say to you: ‘I do not know where you are from.
      I suppose it is the same prophecy in Isaiah 26:20
      Go, my people, enter your inner rooms, And shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself for a brief moment Until the wrath has passed by.
      The protection will come from the Jehovah’s angels.

      • irene evans

        thank you. I understand…another brother who has a similar site is in agreement with many of Roberts posts….but confuses me is where Robert says as soon as we catch sight of the disgusting thing to get out of the Watctower[ which I think makes sense] the other brother says we should not abandon it , we should wait and if we begin exposing them ,we should let tem expel us or disfelowship us…..but I am sure Jehovah will make things clear as the time gets nearer

        • Jonah Peter Paul

          I think I know who you are talking about. Me and my husband carefully searched each website claiming so and so but no one came close to brother Robert’s explanations. In fact many of the things that he said more than a decade ago are happening now. World War 3 news appear in the news EVERY SINGLE DAY and then we are nearing the collapse of the dollar and many other things. Brother Robert has been speaking out for more than 13 years already (and years before he even had a website) with the very same and consistent message. Now it is not far fetched that the society has copied many of his writings and made it look like another person out there knows the same thing BUT most of them can’t show their faces! (The watchtower has copied several points from brother Robert already) These pretentious people are usually anonymous! You don’t even know if that is the Governing Body itself writing articles. So you don’t know who really is writing behind the website. Next ask yourself, what is the purpose of that person you are talking about by revealing things, contradicting what the watchtower teaches but tells us to “blindly obey” until the end? That makes no sense! Brother Robert is the only one who has a meaningful purpose here. He has put to light so many things we needed to know IN ORDER TO HELP US MAKE THE LIFE SAVING DECISION in the near future!!! And to think of it, there is a pattern to what happened during the first century time of Christians and the future. Also the Bible supports what is being taught in this website, we have the fact that Jesus said that there will be a disgusting thing that causes desolation and his disciples should flee right away when they see that and take note that it was noted in the very same verse, “LET THE READER USE DISCERNMENT.” (Matthew 24:15) What does that mean? Ask yourself. And then we have Zechariah chapter 13 that teaches that “the flock will be scattered” and that merely 1/3 of Jehovah’s people are going to make it alive. We have the prophecy about “the man of lawlessness” found in 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-12 stating that the man of lawlessness actually is “sitting in the temple of God!” The next verses also state that: “But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan.” In verse 12 we will read: “That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie.” So the man of lawlessness sitting in the temple of God, under the influence of SATAN himself, has 1 motive: according to verse 12 that is “TO MISLEAD” and make others “BELIEVE THE LIE”.

          If we are to do nothing and continue doing nothing then it seems though that we have simply let ourselves be mislead. What is the purpose of Jehovah then by letting us know the truth that the Watchtower does not if we are to do nothing? Many big decisions require simply common sense.

          I was a child abuse survivor and a nearly stumbled person sick of lies who simply wanted to know the TRUTH, specifically about the coming end. I refuse to be lied to and to waste my time. Common sense kicked in, thankfully and we found out the truth. Don’t be mislead any further.

          • irene evans

            thank you…what you say makes sense……another thing I would like clarification on…..Robert says the W.T was a member of the U.N for 10 yrs..but a brothers said they did not support it in any way…thank you

            • irene evans

              the article says the W.T was a D.P.I N.G.O……does that make difference….it says they were not a member…but I feel tey should not have had anything to do with the U.N regardless…….and they will compromise with them in the future anyway

            • ewatchman

              This article explains the relationship the WT had with the UN. http://jehovah-is-king.com/strange-bedfellows/

            • irene evans

              thank you , this article has made everything clear…..I understand the situation…once again thank you

    • Jonah Peter Paul

      What brother Robert teaches is exactly what we can find in the Bible as well in Matthew 24: 15-19 Which states the following: “Therefore,when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju·de′a begin fleeing to the mountains. Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house, and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment. Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days!”

      As we understand it, world war 3 would be the beginning of everything. It will signal the authentic parousia but it doesn’t necessarily mean that the disgusting thing that causes desolation would happen the very same moment. We would definitely have some time after the 3rd world war to help our fellow brothers and sisters before the disgusting thing that causes desolation appears. The disgusting thing would appear at the beginning of the great tribulation. During that period there probably would be no meetings as the bible says that the sanctuary would be profaned and holy place would be trampled on and the constant feature would be removed. Also you would read in other articles in this website that Jehovah’s Witnesses at that time would be “scattered” Zechariah 13:7

      Here is a quotation from brother Robert’s article:

      So civilization has to collapse first and governments will cease to function (due to the 3rd world war, famine and pestilence that enveloped the world). People would have to miss the feeling of security before they would accept the coming totalitarian government or the new world order out of intense fear which would take place during the great tribulation.

      Me and my husband plan on giving out print-outs translated in our local language to give out to the poor brothers and sisters in our past congregations then leave as soon as possible. We don’t have to stay longer than we need to. The bible says we have to leave as soon as the “disgusting thing that causes desolation” appears not when the WW3 begins.

      -quotation from brother Robert’s article found here: https://e-watchman.com/jehovahs-witnesses-holy-place-prophecy/

      Here are some more of brother Robert’s article that you should read to further understand the sequence of events: https://e-watchman.com/disgusting-thing-causes-desolation/ and his book, the chapter Revelation: http://jehovah-is-king.com/revelation/

      Of course I could be wrong about some details that I why I am still
      constantly studying his work and the bible. But you may read his
      articles about the Holy Place and the Disgusting Thing. I included some
      of their links here.

      • John

        Yes this is very vital prophecy to understand, to flee from the “holy place” when the disgusting thing is placed there.
        I just wonder how many hard core JWs will stay in the organization when it will be prophaned with the disgusting thing?

    • ewatchman

      That not exactly correct. I have said WWIII will discredit the WT. The time to flee will be somewhat later, when the disgusting things stands where it ought not.

  • Bklyn Kevin

    The Anglo American beast which is the seven headed wild beast at present will spring into the scarlet colored wild beast in that it will become a multinational one world government / eighth king, just like Babylon of old when it became multinational .
    At some point in the future the watchtower will become an Antichrist by supporting the eight king thus becoming a harlot / prostitute.
    That would be a good time to get out of her……
    And the way you get out of her is by not giving her / the prostitute or the eighth king any reverence what so ever , you must not recognize their sovereignty – even in the face of death or you will receive the mark of the wild beast thus forfeiting your eternal life.
    See article under the heading ,”Get out of her my people”

  • some

    25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you be wise in your own estimation, for a partial hardening has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

    “The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
    and He will remove ungodliness from Jacob”;[e]
    27 “for this is My covenant with them,
    when I shall take away their sins.”[f]

    3 I will send My messenger, and he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple, even the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight. He is coming, says the Lord of Hosts.

    2 But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the sons of Levi, and refine them like gold and silver, and they will present to the Lord offerings in righteousness.4 Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasant to the Lord as in the days of old and as in former years.

  • Dear
    brothers and sisters, who are regular readers of e-watchman, as you know the
    time left is very very short as world powers are coming closer and closer into
    a nuclear showdown. This website has all given us unique insight and has helped
    us learn the truth about the Watchtower and the real prophecy interpretations.
    We know that we all want to use this opportunity to spread the truth and
    promote brother Robert’s website to as many people as possible may it be
    Jehovah’s Witnesses, ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses or interested people who may
    appreciate the very important facts and information stated in this website.
    There are already so many articles, videos and podcast that brother Robert has
    created over the course of many years and the only thing left to do is promote
    them to people so that many others can benefit from it the same way we are. If
    you are in the position to help or if you are willing to, may you please add my
    facebook account that I use to promote e-watchman and the articles here so that
    as a team we could work together. In that way, if some people would question
    what we share, there would be many of us who are willing to provide answers and
    rebuttals if appropriate. I, together with last will be first 1 and 2 are
    helping out some people who might be interested in the articles found on
    e-watchman as well. We all hope we could work as a team.

    You
    do not need to put a photo of your face on the account. We have already started
    promoting the website and we accidentally met some fellow readers on the way as
    well who have started promoting this website too! I know how much we all want
    to promote this website or even place an add on the newspaper about it but not
    many can afford to do so. Times are different now and the methods of
    advertising have changed as well. We should be able to adapt to those changes
    and so we decided to use facebook as it is one of the most popular websites
    today where we have the opportunity to meet a lot of people. Our target market
    would be those who are doubting or stumbled witnesses, in my case I add
    ex-witnesses as well as I try not to judge or condemn anyone (who knows why
    they were DF’D right) but it will all be up to you. There may be challenges
    along the way and we should figure out the best strategy possible but we can’t
    do this alone. Me and my husband just can’t stomach to sit here and wait for
    WW3 By that time we’re not sure if the internet would still exist so we do now
    what we can do. . Also if we don’t do this, many poor Witnesses who are abused
    and stumbled inside the org might be turned into hateful atheists, agnostics,
    apostates by other JW haters/websites if they do not find out the truth or that
    there is still a place they can go to. If you’re not comfortable with the idea,
    there is no problem. There are many other ways to promote this website. Feel
    free to choose your own.

    I
    have been using facebook for some time now to spread Roberts work directed and
    Blessed by Jehovah and I must say I have been seeing a lot of positive
    responses by readers! I also use my google account https://plus.google.com/105101747300457751720/posts
    spread Roberts work as well! so we can make facebook accounts and google
    accounts and not only share with each other but really be able to reach out to
    many many others as well. if we can all connect on these free accounts on
    facebook and google i feel positive we can further spread Robert kings great
    works directed by Jehovah. if any one has any questions about how to make or
    use free facebook or google accounts please contact me and I will help you. any
    questions please contact me here.

    ewatchmansnews@aol.com
    and here is a link to my facebook page that I have dedicated to Robert Kings
    work. https://www.facebook.com/ You Can Also Follow Robert King on Twitter
    Aswell Here http://www.allexperts.com/ep/1617-126514/Jehovah-Witness/Robert-King.htm And Here is A Link To Robert Kings New
    Website https://e-watchman.com/ thank you all brothers and sisters and thank you
    Robert for sharing jehovah’s blessings of TRUTH AND ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE. may
    JEHOVAH our Heavenly Father bless all those in search for truth With His UNDERSERVED Love Mercy And Kindness.

    • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

      To Dear Brother Leonard.K.
      That is a Good idea, even I have the same thinking. But could some one help me in translating Brother Robert Kings article in South Indian languages such as in Tamil and Kannada language, so that I could reach many JW’s and non Jw’s in India here because many of my people here in India belong to Tamil and Kannada language. I tried in Google translation software but I could not do the right translation. Please some one help me! I am also trying to raise funds so that I could give this to a professional translator to do the job. But please tell me is it right to give to a professional translator to do this kind of job as the translator will be an outsider (Hindu)? The proof reading would be done by myself for Kannada and my wife will for Tamil.
      Your reply is much awaited.

      • Dear Brother Basavaraj of course Jehovah greatly Appriciates any thing we can do to help further spread the truth to any one who might listen and so my first advice to you is to pray to Jehovah on this matter and he will surely direct your endevors. as for the matter of translating there are many many programs available its just a matter of searching for and finding one that will work for you. and in the matter of proof reading your translations by way of an outsider I really don’t think there would be a problem there because you would be paying for a service so I would be inclined to Believe that the outsider would only be interested in his payment for the service and nothing more. and of course yes I would think that no matter who translates the articles you would most surely want to make sure that the articles are translated correctly. perhaps you might ask brother Robert king after all Brother King I’m sure is most experienced in these matters or at best can better guide you then I might. Brother Robert King has written most extensively on many many articles that I would think his direction would better suite your needs as far as advice on how to translate the articles at hand. again my best advice is to pray to our heavenly father Jehovah on this matter after all all things are Possible with Jehovah our loving father.

        Mark 10:27
        27 Looking straight at them, Jesus said: “With men it is impossible but not so with God, for all things are possible with God.”

        http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/ws20130415/more-important-things/#?insight%5Bsearch_id%5D=23505197-7d72-46ab-a28f-7526a3032ed9&insight%5Bsearch_result_index%5D=9

        1 Corinthians 9:22
        22 To the weak I became weak, in order to gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, so that I might by all possible means save some.

        Mark 9:23
        23 Jesus said to him: “That expression, ‘If you can’! Why, all things are possible for the one who has faith.”

        I hope this was helpful to you brother and may Jehovah our loving heavenly father Bless you with Holy Spirit And His Loving Direction. Be Well Brother Basavaraj.

        • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

          Thanks a lot I like your advice

      • Baruq

        Hello Basavaraj.
        Can you contact me on info (@) baruq.uk? (without spaces)

        • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

          Oh sure I will. Yes Yes Sure. Plz give me 1 week time I have to rush to clinic as my wife is ill.

        • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

          Brother I have visited your website and it is fantastic .Yes I need to do some kind of translation of e-watchman’s website in Kannada language and how can you help me.

          • Baruq

            Hello.
            I think it is better if you contact me on my e-mail address
            info @ baruq.uk (without spaces)
            Thank you.

  • irene evans

    dear brother someone has posted that your name is Weldon….while I have doughts regarding this info I would appreciate any info youncan give me to counter this thank you

    • ewatchman

      Don’t know where you got that. Weldon is the guy’s name who uses the handle “Thirdwitness.” He set up the blog years ago, jehovahsjudgment to try and refute what I had published about the WT’s NGO caper. I don’t know if he is still around, or even alive.

      • irene evans

        Robert can not apologise enough for my stupid comment, its hard when you realise you have been lied to, I am trying to tell ppl the truth of the truth……I know you are correct…..and I am thankfull that Jehovah directed me here…thank you so much

        • ewatchman

          I understand. I am still trying to come to terms with having been lied to.

          • Vasilios Agio

            hi guys nice reading and alarming to say the least but where does that leave the disfellowshipped such as myself. do i have to go back to the kingdom hall or stay away. slightly confused

            • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

              Hi Vasilios Agio. I do not know on what basis U R dis-fellowshipped but Jehovah knows about your heart. Even the case of Br Robert is same but he has been dis-fellowshipped for different reasons and I personally don’t recognize that. But my advice as for U is even though Jesus knew that Jerusalem temple is going to be destroyed, did he not went there and preached inside that temple? Just as how Jehovah recognized Jewish system of worship until the arrival and sacrifice of Messiah, similarly the WTS is the channel recognized by Jehovah because it the only organization that bears the name of Jehovah and Jehovah will allow it until the authentic arrival of Jesus and the end of Christianity and the final gathering of the 144000. So please do go to meetings. Just as how Jehovah allowed to destroy his own temple by Romans in 0070.A.D. so in the same way Jehovah will allow the last eighth king (United Nations) to destroy the very organization that bears the name of Jehovah. If you are dis fellowshipped for other than fornication, child/wife abuse ,adultery, Smoking, thievery, drunkenness cheating and drug abuse, then think that Jehovah is not such a silly god to deny your salvation, even if you do so ask for forgiveness through Jesus Christ and go to meetings. See I have not done any such think in my life yet I know they will dis-fellowship me if I don’t recognize 1914. They are afraid to dis-fellowship me because every body knows bot in Karnataka and Tamilnadu (S. India) regions who I am
              and how I am very clean in habits and character, everybody will come to
              know that I am dis-fellowshipped on false reasons not based on Sins. I have already spoken to an elder boldly that I don’t believe in 1914. If they dis-fellowship for 1914 reason still I will go to meetings because I am clean on my part because I will never commit worst sins what was listed in the bible such as I mentioned in this post.

            • Vasilios Agio

              Ok got that. Very good advice. Clears lots of things up for me so I need to b ‘re fellowshipped thru his channel and keep going to meetings until great tribulation. Very good thank you for it excellent advice

            • no man can really dissfellowship you from Jehovah I often think of a dissfellowshipped person along the lines of Judas Iscario only judas has no hope of salvation but you do and that’s why it is so important to build up your spiritual relationship with Jehovah and draw close to him. yes its very important to be in the company of your spiritual brothers and sisters but that’s kind of hard to do if your dissfellowshipped and shunned. if you have sinned and are truly repentant Jehovah will not shun you he will not disown you and I totally disagree with the way Jehovahs witnesses shun a fellow brother or sister just because he or she made a mistake. we should follow the example of jesus
              John 7:53–8:59
              Jesus bent down and began to write with his finger in the ground. 7 When they persisted in asking him, he straightened up and said to them: “Let the one of YOU that is sinless be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And bending over again he kept on writing in the ground. 9 But those who heard this began going out, one by one, starting with the older men, and he was left alone, and the woman that was in their midst. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her: “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said: “No one, sir.” Jesus said: “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way; from now on practice sin no more.”
              no man can judge you that right is reserved for the father and the son.
              in the matter of going back to the kingdom hall I’m not sure and I think brother Robert would be better able to answer that question because I would not want to stumble you in any way but again put Jehovah first in all things and draw close to him pray to him and ask forgiveness and pray that he open your heart and mind and bless you with an accurate knowledge and bless you with truth. keep your faith strong brother and Jehovah will be with you.

            • Vasilios Agio

              Thank you. For UR kind and up lifting words. U make excellent points and I truly appreciate your time to reply. I will do as u say in prayer and I have a greater understanding now thank you

        • many have been lied to and many are trying to cope but it is most important that we keep focus of taking these lies apart with truth with a detailed accurate knowledge and push forth with the truth and teaching the truth to all those who are living with these lies. Jehovah has saw fit to bless us with truth by way of brother Robert king and no doubt Robert has had just as much of a hard time with all the lies so we need to focus and learn by example and faith to break through these lies and use the tools that Jehovah has given us to bring truth to all. yes I’m very sure many of the jws or x jws are very angry and hurt of all the lies but one can not let them selfs be stuck in the matter because of all the pain but rather they should pray to Jehovah and he will make the way out he will provide what we need in order to do his will.

          Matthew 24:14 Matthew 24:14

          14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,+ and then the end will come.

          John 4:23, 24 John 4:23, 24

          23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.+ 24 God is a Spirit,+ and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”+

          1 Corinthians 3:5-7 1 Corinthians 3:5-7

          5 What, then, is A·pol′los? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers+ through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one. 6 I planted,+ A·pol′los watered,+ but God kept making it grow, 7 so that neither is the one who plants anything nor is the one who waters, but God who makes it grow.+

    • Jonah Peter Paul

      I can’t help but notice that your question seems somewhat silly. A person who is interested in the truth wouldn’t ask questions like this. Your focus should be what is presented here and not the name of the person presenting it. I mean is it not enough that brother Robert actually has shown his face in public for years? He has posted his real name obviously cause there’s no point of going public with an anonymous name. That would only cause him problems cause definitely someone who knows him personally would stand up and sound the alarm that he isn’t using his real name at some point. I don’t know where you got your incorrect information from cause I have been reading a lot of forums, some of which are anti Robert and haven’t come across that name you mentioned, except once where someone said that it was a wannabe copycat anti e-watchman named Thirdwitness.

      If I were Robert I would find your question offensive to say the least. And you are actually leaving the impression that you are a troll. I mean you come here out of nowhere with seemingly double meaning questions and now you accuse brother Robert of having a different name and then you even demand that he show you proof? It makes me think… What really are you interested in? The truth or Robert’s personal life?

      This is his website. We are in no position to demand things from him. He has already done so much and everything he has done all this years did not benefit him in anyway in fact he has funded everything from his own pocket. On the contrary it is us his readers who are benefiting from him and not the other way around. Has he demanded you to prove who you are, that for example you are not some Watchtower troll who has an agenda of trying to discredit him? Did he ask you to show proof that you are really who you say you are with the name Irene Evans? If there is someone here who needs to prove their identity that would be those who are anonymous right? Robert’s not anonymous his face and his name are very much public.

      • irene evans

        I am so sorry, I am not a troll, brother, I have had my whole world turned up side down..i have took a chance and told 3 members of my family the truth, they have taken it well. I have told a brother in he truth, it did not go down well, I am telling as many ppl as I can, I do believe brother Robert, I am so sorry I was deceived by someone else, no doubt an Apostate..my sincere apology to Peter, Paul. hope you can all forgive me for my stupid comment, my apology to you Robert

      • irene evans

        Jonah, Peter, Paul, please forgive my stupid comments, you are correct, and I accept your correction….never meant to cause offense to anyone, especially Brother Robert, or yourself….I am not truing to pry into Roberts private life,..i am mortified you would think that of me..of course you wish to defend our Brother….you have totally mis- understood my motives, please accept my apology, and hope you can forgive me. so very sorry

      • irene evans

        so sorry please forgive me

      • irene evans

        how can I say I am sorry….

        • ewatchman

          No problem. No need to apologize.

      • irene evans

        I am so upset, I have witnesessed to my family, told them the truth. so sorry, what can I do . I pray to Jehovah for forgivness, I know he sees my heart, you do not know me, or what I have been through to become a witness, and all of a sudden my world has been turned around, I sufferd years of abuse to be a witness, my children were horribly abused, for what, to be lied to, by these people, who sit comfortably , do not know how to cope anymore, how do I accept sheparding calls, when I want to say…I give up. sorry, I understand if you want to cut me off, I deserve it

        • Jonah Peter Paul

          No need to apologize or make a big deal out of it. You have done me no wrong. We made it our mission to help others like you so I don’t have anything against you. Weren’t I one of the firsts to respond to your comment here? Who am I to cut you off? Just really got puzzled with the weird question and demand that you posted. Brother Robert is very kind as well and assured you he understands so I guess you can now put this behind you.

  • irene evans

    sorry I think this guy is an Apostate..i do belive everything you have posted..and I have tried to alert my family…they accept what you say I am trying to witness to others..but they are calling me a liar which upsets me, I am not a liar no more than you are Robert..i accept what you are saying….its hard when you present the truth to your brothers and they say I am a liar…and I know I am not…Jehovah knows me, not these ppl. I leave the judgement of me to Jehovah, I hope he will not find me wanting

    • Galatians 4:16

      16 So, then, have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?

  • irene evans

    how do we reach our brothers, I have tried with a brother but he has told others about me and now I am an Apostate, its a strain having to be quiet, do we wait until the W.T pack of cards come tumbling down,…..the child abuse trials are soon to start here in the U.K I hope it gets lots of coverage, and is seen by our brothers. any advice would be most wwelcome

  • Passi from B.C

    Hello Robert, hope all is well with you?
    I’ve recently become an unbaptized publisher. Ever since i came across your you-tube channel including your website, i’ve become very upset. In matter of fact i’ve become enraged. This knowledge is affecting me so much that i’m constantly crying. I can’t sleep, eat, drink, sleep, worshiping Jehovah or carry on with my daily daily routine. I’ve tried reasoning with a sister regarding the mark on the beast including the entire chapter of revelation but she kept relying on the “Revelation The High Climax.”

    Robert, i’m deeply lost. i don’t understand and i powerless. I’m getting weaker day by day. I fear for my life (especial being persecuted and the tribulations) and for the things that is coming upon us. what do i do? (I’m in a fragile state)

    P.S. sorry for the bad grammar.

    • irene evans

      Passi..I understand how you feel. I too ws in total shock when I realised I had been lied to for 40 yrs, I too could not stop crying, I was off balance for a while, I have made prayer to our Heavenly Father constantly for direction, I can not go on field serice using material containing lies, however not all the publications contain un – truths so you can use them, I incidental witness now and am having good results,…your brothers here will strengthen you, to keep going , prayer to Jehovah is so important, he will give you strength to carry on , don’t give up

    • Sam

      Being the minority can be very hard in our situation… even though it’s something we should be used to, sometimes our emotions get the better of us. Currently i’m serving as a Ministerial Servant so I’m exposed to the politics of things in the congregation more, which can be frustrating. But because of that, i’m also in a position to help and teach.. to the point that the brothers find my talks and meeting parts and how I deal with others etc refreshing from much of what they hear from others. One brother even exclaimed after hearing a talk of mine- “Finally, we’re getting back to the scriptures!” as opposed to the generic parrot repetition and praising the org at every turn I imagine. I’m not saying this to look good lol but to show that what we know can actually help others. If we are subtle and cautious that is, trying to build up and not tear their faith down. Remember that Jesus let his disciples miss the meaning of important things, and that they were not able yet ready for things Jesus had to say. I guess if Jehovah and Christ patiently allow the delusion so can we, while cautiously (as if like serpents) we help promote Jehovah and his Son and direct to the scriptures rather than the org. This is just what I’ve learnt personally, i’m still learning to cope with such things but keeping our faith in JEHOVAH strong is really all that matters. It is him we are and have all along been serving, so mans blindness shouldn’t affect that

    • Bklyn Kevin

      The sons of man are a mere breath,
      The sons of mankind are a delusion.
      when laid together on the scales,
      They are lighter then a mere breath .
      Psalm 62:9
      The day is coming when Jesus will arrive in his authentic parousia With his final authority and he will do away with these delusional mere men with a breath of his mouth 2 Thessalonians 2:9.
      But until then we must continue in the face of opposition And praised Jehovah’s great name By loving the truth rather then the lie .Psalms 146:
      Remember what Jesus said “first seek the Kingdom.

      • as I look around me looking at current world events it seems that time is moving at an accelerated pace. we have seen many many things come to pass just as jesus foretold flooding and eartquakes in Diverse places Food Shortage the increasing lawlessness WARS AND RUMORS OF WAR and lastly being on the watch for a sword stroke and the reviving of a
        Fierce-looking King and The Disgusting Thing that Causes Desolation standing in the holy place. I am in awe! of all the turning points we are now seeing take place and how biblical prophecy is all coming together. yes we all read much of brother Roberts articles foretelling prophecy of the real Parousia of Jesus Christ and announcing of the judgments of Jehovah and I know much prophecy has not been fulfilled yet but it feels to me that world events are happening at an incredible rate. I also realize what jesus said that before the end the man of lawlessness gets revealed and that the apostasy must come first but as I go over and over again much of brother Roberts great work I’m better understanding how and when much of the biblical prophecy is and will take place. I am simply amazed at brother Roberts understanding and accurate knowledge and how he has helped so many of us put the pieces of the puzzle together and I am very greatful to Jehovah for sending us a prophet such as brother Robert. I can see and feel the great day of Jehovah is apon us right now and when I read these scriptures I realize how terrible it will be for the world when jesus comes to give not only salvation but he brings a sword for the wicked.

        Jeremiah 5:12 Jeremiah 5:12
        12 “They have denied Jehovah, and they keep saying,‘He will do nothing.*+No calamity will come upon us;We will not see sword or famine.’+
        jeremiah 17:15 Jeremiah 17:15

        15 Look! There are those saying to me:“Where is the word of Jehovah?+Let it come, please!”
        Ezekiel 12:22 Ezekiel 12:22

        22 “Son of man, what is this proverb that you have in Israel that says, ‘The days go by, and every vision comes to nothing’?+

        Daniel 7:13, 14 Daniel 7:13, 14
        13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man+ was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days,+ and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership,+ honor,+ and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him.+ His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.+

        I’m amazed at our days it truly is just as in the days of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7QAP56zOoo

        The world now stands at the brink of nuclear catastrophe. With London’s global banking and financial empire in full collapse we may expect certain dark powers to launch global war. But what does the present strategic situation have to do with an ancient flood? The Deluge stands as a portent of things to come, even as Jesus said when he stated that his coming, or presence, would be just as the days of Noah.

        I don’t mean to ramble on here but you have to admit the end is truly apon us and my main point is how fast its all occurring but I for one welcome the kingdom of our heavenly father Jehovah and the return of our lord jesus Christ.

        Romans 15:4
        4 For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope. AMEN!

  • irene evans

    I have a question which I hope someone can help me with, in the account in Judges11, Jephthah makes a promise to Jehovah ,that if given victory over the Ammonites , then who ever came through the door of his home he would give the person to Jehovah as a burnt offeing, we as witnesess have been led to belive Jehovah does not accept people as such. in verses 34- 40, Jephthah sees his daughter come through the door first, which distresess him, in the N.W.T , he says VS 35= You have become the one I must banish, so it seems he allows her to survive but not to marry, in other bibles VS 35,= I have made vow which I can not break…………so did Jephthah offer his daughter up as a burnt offering to Jehovah, I woud appreciate your insight thank you

    • ewatchman

      Jephthah did not really intend to perform child sacrifice. He was merely using that expression, maybe intending to honor Abraham, who attempted to offer Isaac to God.

      In any case, having children in Israel was consider the whole purpose of life, so Jephthah was offering his daughter to God’s service, which meant that she would not be married and have children. That is why his daughter wept over her virginity. (Something that would seem pointless if she was going to be literally killed.) Here is a link to an article in a WT on the topic http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2007362

      • irene evans

        thanks for your reply, the problem is ,because I have been lied to, I do not trust anything they say, maybe I am looking for things to question, I have to settle down, and get the balance right, I am one minute feeling strong and I witness to as many as I can, then next minute I feel depressed, I am sure I will get it right in the end, will keep praying for wisdom , thanks once again Robert

  • Vasilios Agio

    Dear brothers and sisters , may i make mention that it may not be wise to start claiming that world war 3 is coming or is eminent as this could render us as no different to anyone else in regards to prophecy . Isiah clearly states that Jehovah is not happy with those who speak the things he has not spoken or come forth from his mouth. This applies to all does it not? no one knows the day nor the hour but the sovereign Lord Jehovah himself ..yes we can take into account the words of Jesus and see from the scriptures that we must keep on the watch and of course as many have stated on this site that rumors of war and earthquakes and pestilence are culminating like never before but, to jump onto the prophecy game would be unscriptural and dangerous in my opinion.I have read brother Roberts book many times cover to cover and his ive read all of his writings on this site and his understanding of scripture is astounding to say the least. For a brother to uncover such things and to bring to our attention the meaning of 2 thess 2 and the man of lawlessness has changed all of our views and there are too many interpretations of scripture that brother Robert has brought to our attention that i am grateful for. my concerns are the assumptions and the tossing around of words the likes of ww111 . Does anyone really know how it will unfold. I do not wish to discourage anyone but i am merely speaking as a precautionary measure. May i add that the scripture interpretations of brother Robert are most probably the most important understandings and findings in history. I am grateful for the information and the broadening of my understanding of the lie of 1914 and the false parousia that Satan has caused and i have witnessed to witnesses about these issues but have fallen upon deaf ears.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      But Jehovah already has spoken as it were.
      Did not Jehovah inform us of the march of the four horsemen?.
      Perhaps one cannot perceive or discern because of the watchtowers erroneous 1914 scenario claim that the four horsemen had already occurred back then, however if one does a thorough research concerning their claim they will soon realize the seals in Revelation 6: were not open and Jehovah’s great day is yet to come in the near future at the appointed time, Jesus constantly told us to be on the watch, so therefore it is wise to make mention of such events, in other words
      we are to remain in expectations of Jehovah’s great day by proclaiming Jesus’s future parousia.
      And your right the bible does not literally say that world war three is coming but it does say Jehovah’s great day is coming and that’s when Jesus Comes like a thief in the night
      hence world war three as we humans would perceive it.
      And again your right , no one knows the day or hour when Jesus will arrive as a thief in the night but Jesus clearly told us to stay on the watch and gave us signs in order to discern so we can anticipate his arrival .

      • Vasilios Agio

        Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. I truly. appreciate your knowledge and. Yes you have very good points thank you

      • John

        I think this scripture gives the Biblical definition to what the coming World War 3 is:

        Rev12:3 When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature+ say: “Come!” 4 Another came out, a fiery-colored horse, and it was granted to the one seated on it to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another, and he was given a great sword.+

        And the scope of the battle fields and areas directly affected by this is also given in the same chapter:
        8 And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage+and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.+

        It seems that areas that have been hostile to the witnessing about God’s Kingdom will suffer most from the 4 horsemen of the Revelation.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      P.S. We are in imminent danger of being swept away if we do not keep on the watch.
      Matthew 24:42. Matthew 25:13. Luke 21:36. Mark 13:35.1 Thessalonians 5:6. 1 Peter 5:8.

      • Vasilios Agio

        I will look into these scriptures thank you brother

    • no we do not know the hour nore does the son but only the father knows. I think there is so much going on in the world today that many feel as if they have no answers as to what is really going on and so they turn to the bible hoping and praying for answers. the world is in such an upset right now people don’t know if there going left or rite. we have seen war we have seen food shortages we have seen earthquakes and flooding but I think the difference from what people have seen thus far and what is currently unfolding is the SEVERITY of current world events and the worsening of these current events. my point is the end is at hand the great day of Jehovah is near and all we have is bible prophecy to look to. I know there are many people that just choose to berry there head in the sand and pretend nothing is going on ether out of fright or just ignorance but as far as my self and many others are concerned sounding the alarm is exactly what we should do. we don’t want to be like the people in the days of NOWAH and take no note in fact jesus states be on the watch and Jehovah says a watchman is what I have made you and so when it comes to talking about current events and the possibility of world war 3 I think we need to spread the truth and pay close attention to world events as they unfold. of course we should do this accordingly in harmony with jehovahs word but never the less we should sound the alarm and warn as many as we can. I know many will simply ignore holy scripture and have no faith but the day is coming when Jehovah will strike such a fear into mankind that they will call for the mountains to cover them up and then they will have to know that he is Jehovah that is his name and he is alive in great power and he will pass judgement apon the world.

      • Vasilios Agio

        Thank you very much for your reply. I appreciate your thoughts and your insight. May I add that I am worried about my dis fellowships state. I’m not sure as to wether I have to go back to the kingdom hall and be ‘re fellowshipped by man to b recognized by Jehovah or to just pray to Jehovah abd ask for forgiveness as I have don’t for several years til now. Do we have to go hey an organisation of men to b forgiven. I don’t see anything in scripture regarding this. I thought only Jesus and Jehovah are our saviour and no other name under heaven he this authority. Its confusing and worrisome. I’ve had 2witnesses tell me if I don’t go bc@k to the meetings I will loose my life and my prayers won’t b heard. Is this true. Thx. Sorry for errors my phone key pad isn’t quite right.

        • I talked with a few people that are in your situation and they are not sure what to do but some tell me even though they were disfellowshipped and shunned but they still go to the meetings from time time because they need spiritual food and miss there brothers and sisters. And in some cases there are many disfellowshipped persons who become bitter and even wicked and give up on the truth all together. In my view I see many who have made a mistake and some how was stumbled ether by them self’s or even by the watchtower its self and all to many brothers and sisters slip through the wicked worldly cracks because the correct steps were not taken other by the watchtower or the individual. I’m not sure in your case if you were disfellowshipped because you made a mistake in sin or if you were some how stumbled and expeled by the watchtower but in any case the only one that can truly take you away from Jehovah is you. If you are unrepentive and unwilling to change your ways then Jehovah will not draw to you but if you made a mistake in sin and you are truly repentive then you need to start by praying to Jehovah and ask for forgiveness. You must put Jehovah first in all things brother and you must build up your faith. No matter what your situation is if you are truly repentive no man can take you away from Jehovah and no man can truly judge you that right is reserved for Jehovah and Jesus Christ. I don’t want to stumble you in any way but I feel no matter what if you really love the truth if you really love Jehovah and Jesus and you really are trying to build up your faith Jehovah will not simply leave you he loves you more then you can understand and he wants to save you he wants to guide you through your difficultys but you must put him first in all things and every man must live on every utternce out of the mouth of Jehovah. Well I hope this might be if some help to you brother but pray to Jehovah and ask for his mercy and his direction. May Jehovah guid you and bless you with faith and truth.

        • Huldah

          My experience has been that Jehovah blesses and deeply appreciates true humility.
          If it’s possible to get re fellowshipped in your case, I believe Jehovah would appreciate your efforts to do so, even inside a corrupt organization. You may experience a level of holy spirit and insight you never have before because you displayed faith in Jehovah despite your confusion and indignation at the organization.

          Some cases are extremely complex as Robert’s is so he has to deal directly with Jehovah. Perhaps your situation is more easily resolved.

          It wouldnt be easy, but if we wanted easy we should have become Baptists. Satan isn’t at war with them.

          However, I absolutely do NOT believe that Jehovah is ignoring your prayers. Some witnesses make me sick. May Jehovah repay their arrogant presumption with a proper “reward”.
          Ask Jehovah in prayer about your personal situation. Read your bible and prove them dead wrong as you personally experience Jehs direction and counsel.as an answer to your prayers.

          • Vas vegan Rants

            Thanks for your reply to this matter sister . It has been worrisome . Everyone I ask I get different views . The thing that bothers me is this . Why should I have to go to and organisation to be forgiven something that happened so many years ago when they are in a worse state than me regarding Jehovah .they have laid false prophesies since 1914 and as far back as 1876 I think .why do we have to place the org in the place of Jesus . When mark clearly states that there is no other name for which we can be saved . That doesn’t say watchtower or man . It’s like asking a murderer to be forgiven by a murderer . It’s like hiding in a fugitives house . His that right thing to do . Just because they place themselves in a higher place that the other anointed who said they have this authority . Especially given that they are spreading satans lie . This is very sinful in itself . They have been disfellowshipped from Jehovah themselves . How can a disfellowshipped person have authority over another disfellowshipped person . Man can not rule man without gain . And my work which is chef I am limited to going to the meetings and I work all day Sunday coz that’s what satan does . He makes sure your locked away from god . So there is a sat watchtower meeting I could go to but that’s the only one meeting I could attend . When the harlot fell to Jesus feet did he say go to the ministers to be forgiven . When we pray are we not at Jesus feet

            • Huldah

              Glad to hear your thoughts. I have had similar feelings.

              Many here have referenced the fact that Jesus worshipped at the temple despite the corruption of the Pharisees. Even the needy widow gave up all the money she had to the temple. One has to wonder if that money went to greedy priests. But the meaning was in her individual actions as it relates to her personal relationship with Jehovah.
              And it was VERY meaningful to Jehovah. Unforgettable even.
              It was still his temple in the big picture.

              It takes humility it’s true and a lot of stuffing down your indignation even.
              Paul’s words…
              Acts 20:19
              New International Version
              I served the Lord with great humility and with tears and in the midst of severe testing by the plots of my Jewish opponents.

              It’s true that Satan puts up opposition but sometimes opposition is also an opportunity to see Jehs hand in our lives.
              Use your personal relationship with Jehovah. Ask for his personal guidance. Take whatever steps you can and look for evidence of his support in your efforts.

              Psalm 73 helps me. Asaph was angry at the injustice he saw and couldn’t get over it until he became convinced that these wicked ones will face adverse judgement.

          • Vas vegan Rants

            Also sister another point . Why is it ok to pray to Jehovah in private and have a relationship with him they Jesus Christ on every other day and wen we do little wrong things we ask him directly for forgiveness yet I have to present myself to man first . I don’t think anyone can get in between you and Jehovah . No such man existed except Christ our saviour . They may be there to give the flick advice and food but forgiveness ? I don’t think so . If Jehovah can hear my prayers as you say then why wouldn’t I be forgiven . Is Jehovah going to send me to false prophets selling lies to the world in his holy name being reproach to his holiness .

          • Vas vegan Rants

            Sister , thankyou for your concern and I need someone to help and guide me in this case as I am a weak imperfect man .they may be Jehovah’s earthly Chanel and food suppliers when they are not in court spending everyone’s money but when it comes to forgiveness of sins that’s a whole diff ball game . What do you think sister .

  • Leighton Williams

    Are we to honestly think that the end of this world will pass by and we’ll only be grazed with the severity of the great tribulation, for JWs? On the contrary, we will be right there along with everyone else, faced with the same choice.

    As a friend of mine once said, ‘The war has always been waged’ just that most will not discern it until it’s too late.

  • The Raven

    Disqus working ok for others here? Can’t see all comments, edit not working and bad lag. Trying to see if it’s me or disqus.

    • Burt Reynolds

      It’s Disgust.

      • The Raven

        Oh man! I hate it when I cannot edit a comment and it posts and folks reply to what escaped me. I had several yesterday. I need to stop typing my stream of thought arrange it all in clipboard, spellcheck it and only then, post the darn comment!

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