What about the eighth king of Revelation and the feet of iron and clay?

//What about the eighth king of Revelation and the feet of iron and clay?

QUESTION: If the stone strikes the image upon its feet and toes during the time of the end, where in the stream of time does that leave the eighth king of Rev. 17:11? Is it possible that these two events mentioning differing numbers of kings/rulers could years or even centuries apart? I do not understand why God made these two prophecies so confusingly different if they are to happen at close or similar time periods. And, do you ever foresee a time when any true Christians/JW’s might be placed in positions of worldly authority like Daniel was in Babylon and later Persia?


 

ANSWER: The prophecies are amazingly harmonious and not confusingly different at all. Although Jehovah’s Witnesses are unaware of it, the problem is that the time of the end has not begun yet. And that means the prophecy of Daniel has not been unsealed.

But as regards the feet and toes of the image, Daniel explained the meaning to Nebuchadnezzar: “And just as you saw the feet and the toes to be partly of clay of a potter and partly of iron, the kingdom will be divided, but some of the hardness of iron will be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with soft clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile. Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people; but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay.”

Up until a couple of years ago the Watchtower did not teach that the iron and the clay symbolized the Anglo-American dyad. A Watchtower published in 2000 reiterated what was stated in the Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy commentary, saying that the iron and clay amalgam merely represented a politically fragmented world. However, they hit upon the key point that the iron symbolized empire and the clay represents independent nations. But then in 2012 the Watchtower came around to the notion that the iron and the clay specifically represent the Anglo-American duo, which, for whatever it is worth, is what I put forward back in 2005 in Jehovah Himself Has Become King.

But what is the significance of the entire image itself? The Watchtower places no importance on it. However, the point of the prophecy is to reveal how the kingdom stone will destroy all vestiges of human rulership. That would include the eighth king that springs from the seven, would it not?

As regards the image in the second chapter of Daniel it is important to point out that two of the empires that make up the seven-headed beast of Revelation had already come and gone when Nebuchadnezzar came to power. In fact, Babylon overthrew Assyria and Egypt. So, that is why the prophecies of Daniel do not concern themselves with the seven —only the five counting from Babylon.

But, again, what about the eighth king?

The entire metallic image must represent the eighth kingdom, which itself is said to be an image. And this is perfectly in harmony with Revelation and the fact that the two-horned Anglo-American beast calls for an image to be made of the seven-headed beast. And the two-horned beast breathes life into the image. (See the chapter of Daniel in Jehovah Himself Has Become King)

Not only that, but the ten horns of the seven-headed beast are said to give their power to the scarlet-colored beast. In other words, the last king derives his power from the consent of all the kings, but primarily from the Anglo-American kingdom.

The ten horns find a parallel in the ten toes of the iron and clay feet. The entire image obviously stands upon the feet and toes, which harmonizes with the fact that the Anglo-American duo have been and will be in the future, the primary promoters and supporters of the United Nations. For that reason the stone strikes the feet, thus toppling the entire image.

It is interesting that Nebuchadnezzar is the head of gold on the image. That the entire image with its head of gold represents the last kingdom also harmonizes with the numerous prophecies that depict Babylon as the last kingdom. For example, the prophecy of Habakkuk and the 13th and 14th chapters of Isaiah describe Babylon as the destroyer of the world who is then destroyed by God.

As for the second question, the answer is no. True Christians will never be part of the political system. If they become such they renounce their faith. The reason God elevated Joseph, Daniel and Esther was to demonstrate his power to do so and accomplish his purpose. But, since the time of Christ, or more accurately —since that Pentecost 33 C.E., God’s Kingdom has gone into operation. And considering that the series of prophecies in Daniel all relate to the coming to power of the Kingdom and the holy ones, the elevation of Daniel to a prominent position in both the Babylonian and Persian administrations demonstrates the point that ultimately God is in control, and as Nebuchadnezzar learned, God can bring down the high and mighty and raise up the lowly. This is what will take place when the holy ones of the supreme One are given the Kingdom and together with Christ smash the nations, crushing them out of existence.

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2016-12-08T15:10:46+00:00 January 10th, 2016|Mailbag|23 Comments
  • sunset

    Wow interesting point about Daniel, Esther, and Joseph being elevated into power, to show Jehovah can elivate the faithful lowly ones who are his chosen holy ones.

    Sometimes felt sad that i am not like Daniel, a desirable person….because i was rejected by my family and fear Jehovah may not love me either.

    • Leonard k

      Leonard k sunset • a few seconds ago

      jehovah will always love you more then you can even understand.
      Jeremiah 31:3

      3 From far away Jehovah appeared to me and said: “I have loved you with an everlasting love. That is why I have drawn you to me with loyal love.

      • sunset

        Thanks for that scripture. I am going thru another significant trial.

        I had to go pay my cable, at their location. I asked the young man if he was religious, or to what religion he belonged . He said he didn’t want to say. But he was interested in the bible. I gave him jw.org, and e-watchman.com….and wrote down 1914 , and briefly explained the issue with that year. It felt good that he said he would look into it.

  • Basavaraj Of North Karnataka

    Nice points brother Robert it makes some sense. Yeah now I understand fully. But how many JW’s are bothered? May be only few but by and large they don’t even think of this.

  • Rose Castro

    I am confused. I was under the impression that the 7th
    king represented the Anglo-American dyad power. And then the 8th king is
    what is born or what emerges after the fall of the Anglo American dual power.
    I probably need to go back to that chapter O_o. What part of this statue of Daniel’s vision represents the Anglo American power? please help, anyone…

    • Bobby 6343

      From the article on top.

      “The entire metallic image must represent the eighth kingdom”,
      “the iron symbolized empire”
      “the clay represents independent nations”.

      So as Robert pointed out, The “Iron” and the “Clay” represents Th Anglo American duo.

      • Rose Castro

        The clay represents the king of the South, right? The clay is mixed in with the iron at the feet of the statue or image, right?

        • Bklyn Kevin

          The iron represents the king of the north which is the imperial system / British empire and the clay represents the king of the south which is the republican system / United States, thus the iron and clay combine to be come or represent the American Angelo duo world power which is the seven headed wild beast that springs into the eighth king after the seventh had a sword stroke.

          And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. Revelation 17:11.

          It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. Revelation 13:14

          Another sign was seen in heaven. Look! A great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and on its heads seven diadems; Revelation 12:3.

          • Rose Castro

            Perfect! I think thanks to this response, as well as everyone else’s, I have this point clear now. Thank you so much!

    • Bklyn Kevin

      (See the chapter of Daniel in Jehovah Himself Has Become King)

    • Joshgoshjw@gmail.com

      The 666 represents Man’s Governments.
      The measure used back in biblical times left out 0…
      So 6 by 60 cubits , when the base is square is written 66=6by6by60 or calculating the measurement of a man its 666 . Nebuchadnezzars measurements of man’s rule is symbolizes gross imperfection to the third degree, 6 is fallen short by 3rd degree. ..
      Iron represents a From of Rule that is hard line, Feudalism, like Rome,Britain, etc…

      Clay represent a diplomatic form of of rule, like USA at one time.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      Excerpt from “The Coming Global Storm”.

      According to Bible prophecy the concluding phase of history is marked by the conflict between two rival kings designated as the king of the north and king of the south. Those two kingdoms are also symbolized as the feet of iron and clay comprising the metallic image. The king of the north is the Empire. The iron in Daniel’s prophecy also symbolizes it. The present monetary empire is really the British Empire, which is a continuation of the Roman Empire. The king of the south is the United States; also symbolized by the clay in the iron and clay amalgam. The Bible’s symbolism of the iron and clay not sticking together is the perfect analogy of the incompatible mix of the American and British systems today. (See chapter: King of the North)

      The coming days will see the conflict between these two entities reach a conclusion. By the light of Bible prophecy it can be seen that the empire is going to crush the nations. In the prophecy of the kings of the north and south, in verse 42 the king of the south is portrayed as “Egypt,” since Egypt was the original king of the south following the break of Alexander’s empire. So, the American kingdom will not prove to be an escapee. The American king is going to be netted by the financiers

      Daniel explained the meaning to Nebuchadnezzar: “And just as you saw the feet and the toes to be partly of clay of a potter and partly of iron, the kingdom will be divided, but some of the hardness of iron will be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with soft clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile. Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people; but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay.”

      • Brian

        Hi, I think some of these claims about the king of north and south, the feet of iron and clay, what, or who the 2 horned beast really is or what it is, and/or the disgusting thing that stands in the holy place are possibly a little spurious.
        “And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight.”
        The two horned beast appears after the “wild beast” has appeared, the wild beast is the eighth king, so i.e. NWO, one world government, whatever you want to call it, but it has to appear first and become the disgusting thing that stands in the holy place (in place of Gods kingdom) as this appears to be happening in the sign of the son of man coming so it will be a false representation of Gods kingdom on earth. So the 2 horned beast is more than likely to be the whole geopolitically divided world (which really falls under two spheres of political divergent systems i.e. East/West) rather than a couple of old almost bankrupt colonialist countries.
        “Whereas you beheld iron mixed with moist clay, they will come to be mixed with the offspring of mankind; but they will not prove to be sticking together, this one to that one, just as iron is not mixing with moulded clay.”
        The “they” that is mixed with the offspring of mankind are the ruling class that Jehovah has/had allowed to rule the earth, so now the the ruled are part of the rulers. This has manifest itself around almost the entire world in that the “ruling class” are competing with “commoners” for political positions and are afraid of upsetting the masses, even in the most populist and communist-ish country they are afraid of upsetting the masses that will turn on them if they don’t get looked after the way they have been promised.
        When “they” install the disgusting thing that causes desolation it “rules” for 1290 days and persecutes and kills the Holy ones, as it only rules for a short period of time, it would indicate that something brings it to and end.
        I believe the commentary of the ” king of the north and south has a dramatic change at Daniel 11:31 when this disgusting thing is put into place by the “kings”, after this the commentary is about the “beast” that has been but in place of the Kingdom and the two horned beast (king of north and south)will bring it to it’s end, two horned beast beast being the entire world, divided on geopolitical lines.
        Remember folks/brothers/sisters, in the time of the end the true knowledge will become abundant, so what may have seemed feasible in the past will change as we move closer to the end of this system.
        Of course, this is only my take on this! : )

        • Bklyn Kevin

          If you think these characters are spurious, false / fake
          as you say, then why would Jehovah even make mention of them ?.
          So my word that goes out of my mouth will be. It will not return to me without results, But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight, And it will have sure success in what I send it to do. Isaiah 55:11-12

          • Brian

            I am not saying the characters are spurious, it is the commentary or understanding of these characters that are, somewhat like the game of “who is the king of the north this week” that has played out for years. Since the inception of these “kings”, it has been a dividing of the world on geopolitical grounds and not simply kings of nations or countries. The two thighs of the statue heralded the beginning of this “split” and has continued via the legs, the legs in turn have controlled the world ever since right down to the feet of today, the only thing that has changed is the ultimate power of these “kings” has been undermined by the mixing of the offspring of man into the ruling class, represented by the clay. You need to look no further than to what is playing out right now, there is a geopolitical shift, a major one that is in the process now, which evidently take place like clockwork. My take on this one is that it will not succeed or transition as the previous ones did, somewhat like Daniels commentary of the last, failed attempt of the king of the north’s ascension prior to the “beast” or eight kings arrival.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Are you concluding or saying that brother Roberts commentary is spurious concerning the king of the north and south? And if not who’s commentary are you referring to?.
              And If you are knowledgeable perhaps you can give us a breakdown in details of the statue in Nebuchadnezzar dream and the meaning of the many parts of that stature in scriptural format of course.
              And while you’re at it could you please also give us detailed explanation of the king of the north and the king of the south and who they might be in the past as well as the present and the future.
              It would be greatly appreciated.

            • Brian

              Bklyn Kevin, I am a little busy at the moment, but over the weekend I will dig and drag the scriptural references for these. I am not so sure I need to explain the whole statue as my understanding of it’s composition is not so different to Roberts or yours in as much as Daniel explains pretty much all of it anyway. To Identify the legs and feet, this needs to be done with historical observations tied in with the descriptions given in Revelation and the turn of events in Daniel. I will give scriptures over the weekend.

            • Bklyn Kevin
            • Bklyn Kevin
            • Bklyn Kevin

              Here is two of Robert king’s video concerning the subject you are going to research.

            • Brian

              It’s a bit long…sorry!

              According to the US Foundation for the study
              of cycles, every 500-ish years, there is a geopolitical power shift moving east
              to west or west to east. Converging with these economic low cycles in 2012-2013
              is the anticipated geopolitical shift of power from the West (U.S.) to the East
              (Asia).

              “The debate between the financial analysts (wealth is
              moving to Asia) and the geopolitical analysts (the U.S. will remain a dominant
              world power) will be interesting to watch. Depending upon the outcome of these
              cycles, the U.S. may very well feel as if an apocalypse has occurred.”

              I don’t believe the shift from west to east will happen,
              just as Daniel states, that the King of
              the North will not prevail “the same as
              it was at the first”, they will align themselves to a degree and create the thing
              that “stands where it ought not be”

              Revelation 17 : 9-12

              “Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: The seven heads mean seven
              mountains, where the woman sits on top. And there are
              seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when
              he does arrive he must remain a short
              while. And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself
              an eighth [king], but springs from the seven, and it goes off into
              destruction.”

              “The ten horns that you saw mean ten
              kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as
              kings for one hour with the wild beast.” This is the same “short while” applied
              to the one that ”has not yet arrived”.

              The seventh head and ultimately the whole beast are actually represented by the
              eighth king and not some Anglo-American
              duo. This is not to say that they don’t have a part in it, of course they do,
              and they are part of one king as represented in Daniel and probably the King of
              the south as this composite king has held sway in the world for the past 500
              years or so.

              Daniel
              7:17-18

              “‘As for these huge beasts, because they
              are four, there are four kings that will stand up from the earth. But
              the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will take
              possession of the kingdom for time indefinite, even for time indefinite upon
              times indefinite.’

              Daniel says that there are 4 kings that will stand up, it would need to be 5 kings if
              you believed there was another literal “King “or Empire to follow after the
              “five have fallen, one is and the other has not yet arrived”, because there is
              only 4 kings that will stand up, the other one that is to arrive is the “little
              horn” of the beast that makes the complete composite for the beast of
              Revelation or the 8thking that doesn’t have a kingdom.

              Then this eighth king (beast) stands in the holy place for the 1260/1290 days, after
              this, “and it goes off into destruction”, this destruction will by the hands of
              the Kings of the North and South, represented as the Two Horned beast, after
              its demise, there is a lengthening of life for the other Kings(horns). These
              other kings, the seven horns after the three were plucked out in Daniels
              account of the ascension of the little horn, will make up the rulers of the two
              horned beast that will make an image of the beast for all to worship.

              And there will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will
              actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant
              [feature].
              “And they will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing
              desolation. “And those who are acting wickedly against [the] covenant, he will
              lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But as regards the people who are
              knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively. And as
              regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding
              to the many. And they will certainly be made to stumble by sword and by flame,
              by captivity and by plundering, for [some] days. But when they are made to
              stumble they will be helped with a little help; and many will certainly join
              themselves to them by means of smoothness. And some of those having
              insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them
              and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of [the] end;
              because it is yet for the time appointed. “And the king will actually do
              according to his own will, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above
              every god; and against the God of gods he will speak marvellous things. And he
              will certainly prove successful until [the] denunciation will have come to a
              finish; because the thing decided upon must be done. And to the God of his fathers he will give no
              consideration; and to the desire of women and to every other god he will give
              no consideration, but over everyone he will magnify himself. But to the god of
              fortresses, in his position he will give glory; and to a god that his fathers
              did not know he will give glory by means of gold and by means of silver and by
              means of precious stone and by means of desirable things. And he will act effectively against the most fortified
              strongholds, along with a foreign god. Whoever has given [him] recognition he
              will make abound with glory, and he will actually make them rule among many;
              and [the] ground he will apportion out for a price.

              This beast will be given enormous power to rule over the earth, enormous power
              gifted by Satan, power to the point where it will……

              “And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand
              for a time, and times and half a time.”

              Daniel
              11:40-45

              “And in the time of [the] end the king of the south will engage with HIM in a pushing,
              and against HIM the king of the north will storm with chariots and with
              horsemen and with many ships; and he will certainly enter into the lands and
              flood over and pass through. He will also actually enter into the land of
              the Decoration, and there will be many [lands] that will be made to stumble.
              But these are the ones that will escape out of his hand, E′dom and Mo′ab and
              the main part of the sons of Am′mon. And he
              will keep thrusting out his hand against the lands; and as regards the land of
              Egypt, she will not prove to be an escapee. And he
              will actually rule over the hidden treasures of the gold and the silver and
              over all the desirable things of Egypt. And the Lib′y·ans and the
              E·thi·o′pi·ans will be at his steps. “But
              there will be reports that will disturb him, out of the sunrising and out of
              the north, and he will certainly go forth in a great rage in order to
              annihilate and to devote many to destruction. And he will plant his palatial
              tents between [the] grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will
              have to come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.

              HIM being the eight king, the 8th King is the one that stands in the
              holy place pretending to be the saviour of all mankind and all of his Ill’s and
              has been giving the power to conduct all of what is written in Daniels
              scripture above.

              After he has gone all of his way to his end, at the hands of the King of the North
              and South he will be brought the end, the 2 horned beast (King of North and
              South) will resurrect an image in the “time and season” period that follows,
              I’ll call it a grace period for reflection if you like, but they will not
              reflect. Then they will make everybody worship this image, worshipping this
              image when they all should be looking to the Kingdom that its arrival will be
              by that time as plain as the nose on your face.

              I will admit now that I am not as good as putting this together as some others are,
              I am a Mechanic, not a literary scholar!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              I am not a Biblical literary scholar either but nonetheless that’s not going to stop me from trying to discern GOD’S word and I’m sure the same can be said about you and many others.
              Now only if we can put a time frame to these events with a bit more information scripturally of course that would be great.
              That would be next to impossible because some of these events did not occur yet, perhaps that’s what Daniel 12:4 meant when he said the books were sealed up until the time of the end.
              But we can thank Jehovah because his son Jesus has been found worthy to open up the seals of the book Revelation 5:1-12 and I’m sure when Jesus comes in his authentic parouscia much will be revealed to Jehovah’s people in order to guide them through the great tribulation.
              But thank you for your summary I found it to be a very enjoyable reading and I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

  • Cicada

    The actual complete Image itself is the 8th king. “The entire metallic image must represent the eighth kingdom” I agree with this totally. Kingdom about to arise?

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