Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the Deity of Christ

//Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the Deity of Christ

A common accusation by Trinitarians is that Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the deity of Christ. That certainly sounds sinister. Denying the divinity of Jesus makes Jehovah’s Witnesses out to be unchristian, even anti-Christs.

But such is not the case. In truth, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not deny the divinity of Christ. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus had a prehuman existence and in that state he was divine. Although not Almighty God, the Word, was/is a god. He exists as the very image and likeness of the only true God.

However, upon his becoming human Jesus left off his heavenly nature. Paul explained it this way at Philippians 2:5-11: “Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

Some translations, like the King James Version, mutilate Philippians 2:5 to read: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God…”

 If that rendering were true, though, it would seem that Paul was exhorting Christians to presumptuously seek equality with God – after all, that is what they have Christ doing by such shoddy translating.

In reality, the apostle is telling Christians to follow Jesus’ sterling example of humility, because even though Jesus originally existed in God’s form, as the verse clearly states, Christ Jesus did not consider himself God’s equal. (It is no wonder many Trinitarians prefer the King James Version.) Instead of grasping for equality with God, Jesus emptied himself. The question is: Of what did Jesus empty himself? The answer: Jesus divested himself of his divinity. He was in God’s form – a deity, to be sure. He forsook his divine nature and “took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.” Does that not indicate that Jesus changed from divine to flesh? And as a man Jesus submitted himself to a tortuous death. For that reason God exalted his son to his very throne.

But while Jesus was on the earth he was not a deity. He was a man. Jesus was not part God and part man. He was not a god-man or demigod. In the 15th chapter of 1st Corinthians Paul explained that Jesus corresponded in value to the original human God had created. Quoting Genesis in the first part of the passage below, the apostle wrote: ‘“The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. As the one made of dust is, so those made of dust are also; and as the heavenly one is, so those who are heavenly are also. And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one.”

Jesus is called “the second man” because he is only the second perfect man whom God has created. Similarly, Jesus is called the “last Adam” because he was the last human that God will ever produce. But the point is, Jesus was human, just as Adam was human. This is why Jesus’ death is called “a corresponding ransom for all.” The value of Jesus’ perfect human life corresponds to what the first man originally possessed before he became a sinner against God. Had Jesus been a god-man or a human deity of some sort he would not have had a corresponding value to the original man.

In actuality, those who accuse Jehovah’s Witnesses of denying the deity of Jesus, themselves, deny the vital ransom Christ provided. They do so by denying that Jesus was solely human. By making him God incarnate they disqualify Jesus from being the equivalent of Adam. Trinitarians unwittingly deny the great act of humility Jesus performed too, when he willing left behind his divine nature and became a lowly human.

Trinitarians also unwittingly deny the love of God as well, because had Jesus been Jehovah, as the popular myth would have it, then it renders meaningless the fact that God rewarded Jesus for his great humility and sacrifice. Or, are we to believe that Jehovah rewards himself for being loyal to himself and he gives himself gifts and honors that he has always possessed? Although enwrapped in high-sounding theological language and endorsed from the highest pulpits, to believe that Jesus is God himself is to embrace the absurd.


2017-09-10T04:39:35+00:00 June 13th, 2010|Beliefs|54 Comments
  • chas logue

    John 12v 36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. 37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

    38 That the saying of ESAIAH the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that ESAIAH said AGAIN , and from the verses that he quoted, was Isaiah ch 6v9

    40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said ESAIAH, when he SAW HIS GLORY, and SPAKE of HIM. We can see a definite time when Isaiah saw the Lord, in the year that the leprous King died, which is by the way was written about 50 years before ch 53. Claiming as your cohort Mr Stafford, says that the Glory of the Lord was then, could never, in any stretch of the imagination be possible.

    Isaiah 6 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

    2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

    9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    • ewatchman

      Drink lots of water and sleep it off, that’s about the best advice I can give.

      • e.v.g

        That’s funny.

      • Rose Castro

        LOL! I already feel way better and I will follow all of the great advice that I’ve received here. Thank you so much for helping me feel better. I already forgot all about it 😀

    • Merton

      Are you saying the Lord in Isaiah 6 is Jesus?

      • chas logue

        I think that it is quite clear, John said, Isaiah saw his glory and spoke of him. Isaiah 6

        • Michael Marrero

          Matt. 3:17 ‘Look! Also, there was a voice from
          the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’
          Q: Who approved of whom? How does this verse suggest the two mentioned here are the
          same God, or equal?

          Matt. 26:39,42 ‘…My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me.
          Yet not as I will, but as you will. …Let your will take place.’ Q: If Jesus
          were Almighty God, or equal to Him, why would Jesus have any need to pray? Would it be possible
          to have two separate wills, since Jesus said, not his will, but God’s will should take
          place? How do you reconcile that if they are both the same, or part of the same God?

          Luke 22:29 ‘And I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant
          with me, for a kingdom.’ Since a covenant is a solemn promise between two
          parties, one does not make a covenant with oneself. Q: Since there is no mention of the
          Holy Spirit here, how does the Holy Spirit tie into this covenant? On which
          part of the covenant would the Holy Spirit be, on the Father’s side, or on the side of Jesus?

          Luke 23:46 ‘…Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.’ This expression
          helps us to understand that Jesus really did die. Q: If Jesus is part of the same God, or if
          Jesus IS God, then why didn’t the Father (and the Spirit) die too? How could just
          part of one God die and not the rest of that one God? The Athenasian Creed states
          that all three are ‘equal in eternity;’ meaning that all three are ‘from everlasting to
          everlasting’. So if Jesus died, but God (and the Spirit) didn’t die, how could they be ‘equal
          in eternity’ since there were parts of three days that Jesus did not exist, yet God (and His Spirit)

          John 14:1 ‘Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God,
          exercise faith also in me.’ Q: Why would Jesus say to exercise faith in him directly
          after he had said to exercise faith in God, if Jesus IS God? Doesn’t that seem redundant?
          If Jesus is God, then why does Jesus make a distinction here between ‘God’ and then ‘me’? And,
          why doesn’t Jesus say to exercise faith in the Holy Spirit?

          Col 1:3 ‘We thank God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…’ Q:
          Does Paul include Jesus or the Holy Spirit in the word ‘God’ (as in the Trinity)? If so,
          why does Paul go on to mention Jesus Christ as God’s Son?

          1 John 5:5 ‘Who is the one that conquers the world but he who has
          faith that Jesus is the Son of God?’ Q: Isn’t that clear? Are
          those that conquer this world those who have faith that Jesus is the Son of God, or
          ‘God the Son.’

          • e.v.g

            Ha ha!!!…take that chas logue.

          • D34D 4L!3N

            Obviously Jesus asked himself if he could will his suggestion but didnt will his own will but for his own will. (speaking sarcastically) ha, so stupid

          • chas logue

            As this is part of your quote I do not believe that anyone in their right mind would post such a load of Jumble
            “If Jesus is part of the same God, or if Jesus IS God, then why didn’t the Father (and the Spirit) die too? How could just
            part of one God die and not the rest of that one God? The Athenasian Creed states
            that all three are ‘equal in eternity;’ meaning that all three are ‘from everlasting to
            everlasting’. So if Jesus died, but God (and the Spirit) didn’t die, how could they be ‘equal in eternity’ since there were parts of three days that Jesus did not exist, yet God (and His Spirit)”
            You really don’t have a clue about Person of Jehovah God, How can God who is a Spirit and Everlasting and Eternal, die, see John 4v24 the only one that died was the man, the man,I repeated the man Christ Jesus, who became flesh to destroy him that had the power of death, that is the devil, and set sinners free from the power of Sin.
            obviously you cannot grasp the fact that God is triune Three Persons ONE GOD. he became a Father when the Word became flesh His Son. when he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, in the womb of the virgin.

            • Merton

              “Three persons ONE GOD”

              Tell me, is the ONE GOD a person (a who) or a being (a what)?

            • chas logue

              Luke 1v28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
              29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
              30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
              31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a Son, and shalt call his name Jesus. GOD THE FATHER
              32 He shall be great, and shall be called the SON OF THE HIGHEST: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
              33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
              34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
              35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(from THE FATHER)
              hebrews 1 v5 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my SON, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a FATHER, and he shall be to me a SON ?

            • Michael Marrero

              I’ll give you credit for effort, and not because you put any effort in responding mind you there were other questions, but effort for doing such a good job in convincing yourself on your illogical ideas. I imagine you picked that question because it was the only question you could some how muster up some kind of response. I get it. Kudos.

          • D34D 4L!3N

            sarcastically speaking, yeah God didnt really send his son but like Multiple Man from the x-men, he made another of himself but as a remote human on earth, then lied to everyone that he was the son of God when really he was in disguise as a son of himself, then never died when his remote human self was removed by crucifixion, then three days later Godzilla rose from the sea and made grilled cheese sandwiches for all the angels while Luke Skywalker turned the water into rootbeer as they all had a TV party watching the Muppet Show

            • Michael Marrero

              No, no. God is a prankster man, or is it Jesus, someone in that trio has some good humor in him.

            • D34D 4L!3N

              the holy trinity stars Larry, Curly and Moe

            • e.v.g

              That Jesus faked his death is hilarious

        • Merton

          I think you’re on to something here! So it’s Jesus speaking in Isaiah 6:9-10??

        • D34D 4L!3N

          thats actually correct. Jehovah’s son is his glory.

        • Erik

          I’m sure most of us can appreciate how by the use of a few bible verses the idea of the trinity may appear to be reasonable.
          To this date I still have never received a good explanation of the words of Thomas “My Lord and My God”. Yet my 50+ years of reading the Bible has convinced me that there really isn’t a Trinity. (I use to believe differently as a youth)
          (we could go back and forth citing our many various biblical points and still not resolve anything)
          But the bottom line is this:
          In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul makes it very clear that even if a person has an abundance of knowledge, if they are not manifesting the “Heavenly Love” then it is all for nothing! (I say “Heavenly” to distinguish the kind of love described in the chapter vs the definition of “Love” from a human perspective).
          One should ask themselves: Does my life reflect the loyalty and love that proves I am a faithful Christian? Love for God is demonstrated by being faithful to the life style he has instructed his people to abide by. Putting behind us stealing, lying, sexual immorality are just a few of the things in adhering to that life.
          And of course, the manifestation of love.
          We all realize that “Dark Days” are approaching. Neither now and even more so then, will my assistance towards anyone who may need it is going to be contingent of whether they are a Christian. Even less so, if they are a Trinitarian or a “Hell Fire” believer.
          Can you imagine: “Before I help you I need to know, do you believe in the Trinity”?

          The final decision as to who lives and who doesn’t is, thankfully, not in my hands nor in the hands of any other mortal.
          What really matters is the heart condition and whether one is loyal to God and His Son, which is demonstrated by our obedience to His instructions. To be sure however, all things will be made clear in due time. Paul makes clear that whatever things we may be unsure about now will be cleared up in the future. How it is to be done remains to be seen.
          What we can be certain of is that when that time comes the debate as to whether there is a trinity, hellfire, Arc-Angel etc, will finally be resolved for all time.
          In the meantime, we do will to resign ourselves to live the Christian life to the best of our abilities and that despite what may happen in the future it will not deter us from believing in and being loyal to God. “Many will be stumbled”, hopefully we will not fall into that category when it happens.

          • D34D 4L!3N


  • chas logue

    To all who can see, Read, What Jehovah God saith unto a Watchtower org, about the Truth of John 1v 1

    Taken from a G. I. N. T.

    Εν αρχη ην ο λογος,
    in(the) beginning was the Word,

    και ο λογος ηυ προς τον θεον,
    and the Word was with the God,
    ((How in the name of Jehovah can this “the God” be changed in the next sentence to a god))
    according to your translation, “and a god was the Word“ this typically means any god,

    και θεος ην ο λογος.
    and God was the word.
    ((In this line we have two Subject Nouns which have the “ ος ” endings, θεος and ο λογος, either one can be read BEFORE the verb, which one?, according to Greek, and English grammar, the Subject Noun with the DEFINITE article is read before the verb.

    And THE WORD was GOD. This is the case in all the Truthful Translations, and not the erroneous Critical Greek Text used by today’s publishers ((The in definite article “a” does not even have to be used anywhere in the verse, to belittle the person of The Lord Jesus Christ.))

    Text from English Grammar. The subject noun is the noun at the beginning of a sentence.

    Easiest way to put it is that a subject noun is the subject of the sentence and answers who or what to the verb (and usually comes before the verb in a sentence).

    • Merton

      I agree that the correct translation should read ‘and the word was God’

      There is no definite article (‘the’) in the greek for θεον at John 1:18. Yet the watchtower does not insert an indefinite article (‘a’) in verse 18 for θεον and that is not consistent with how they translate John 1:1c.

      The problem that the Trinitarians and Jws have here is that they both think ‘the word’ is either the second person of the trinity or Jesus in Archangel Michael form. I’m afraid both are mistaken. In the Genesis act of creation, God created through his SPOKEN WORD, not through some other person. (Genesis 1:3 ‘and God said “Let there be light”).

      • chas logue

        Does John 1v14 not say the Word became flesh, I think that you are on the right track Just think of Jesus as the Word Before the incarnation, In corinthians ch 1 v 24 Christ the wisdom of God and, the power of God.

        • Merton

          The word does become flesh, true.

          It doesn’t say Jesus became flesh, the second person of the trinity became flesh, Michael the Archangel became flesh. I’m not going to think of Jesus as the word before the incarnation because that is eisegesis!!

          Again all these quotes are from Paul and John. Great as they are, I think it’s imperative to have your foundation in Matthew and Luke, and then proceed to John and Paul. There is nothing in Matthew and Luke about pre incarnate pre existence or what have you. In fact notice how few trinitarian ‘prooftext’ appear in those two gospel accounts! Did they just forget to mention the second person of the trinity came down from heaven into the womb of Mary?

          • chas logue

            you say ” Michael the archangel became flesh what a load of trash and speculation, and conjecture.

            JOHN 1 V14 (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

            18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten SON, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

            • Merton

              Reading comprehension. I didn’t say Michael the Archangel became flesh. I said the word became flesh.

              If english isn’t your first language please let me know and i’ll put my responses in a more user-friendly way so you can easily understand. I can see how you might have though i said Michael the Archangel became flesh. That wasn’t my intention.

            • Charles Boyce

              But you literally said “Michael the Archangel became flesh.” Work on writing comprehension before accusing others of having poor reading comprehension please! Remember Micah 6:8

      • D34D 4L!3N

        “not through some other person”

        2 “This ONE was in the beginning WITH God.” – Proverbs 8:22-31

        John 1:3, Colossians 1:16

        that scripture does NOT say Jehovah’s spoken word

        Galatians 3:19, Acts 7:53

        • Merton

          Wisdom was in the beginning with God. Proverbs 8 only means the Jesus if you read that into the text. Hebrews 1 says God spoke to the forefathers by means of the prophets, now he has spoken to us by means of a son. Kind of a mute clause if indeed the Son did speak to the forefathers of old in the old testament.

          John 1:3. All things came into existence through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into existence. Read Genesis as early as 1:3. God said” Let there be Light”. you have a problem with your interpretation. God created through two words: (a) a spoken word, (b) a person called the word.

          Colossians 1:15,16. Jesus is also called the firstborn out of the dead in this passage. But there are accounts in the Old testament and we have Lazarus in the New being brought back to life before Jesus. When we look at it that Jesus is the firstborn out of the dead NEVER TO DIE AGAIN, and similarly Jesus is the firstborn of all creation NEVER TO DIE AGAIN, we get a better picture. The passage is obviously about the risen Christ, not about some pre existent angel. Context. I mean look at what Paul is saying, he just randomly inserts this bit about Jesus being the very first thing God ever created? He’s not referring to the Genesis act of creation.

          • ewatchman

            Of course Paul was not referring to the Genesis act of creation. There was a creation before that. “In the beginning was the Word. ” That beginning precedes the Genesis beginning. Different world man.

            • Merton

              I agree 100%. But Yahweh created through his spoken word. Not some person known as ‘the Word’

            • D34D 4L!3N

              yeah, he spoke to Michael and Michael did what his father asked but your saying Michael just sat there and did nothing while Jehovah did a lot of speaking

            • ewatchman

              Actually, no. You are wrong. The Word was with God in the beginning and he created everything. And if you want to push the lie that Jesus had no pre-human beginning you will not be allowed to post here.

            • Merton

              Don’t forget to burn me at the stake too.

              This shouldn’t even be an issue. How does this affect salvation, nature of Christ’s sacrifice? It doesn’t. We simply have a disagreement about a minor issue.

            • ewatchman

              If you think denying Christ’s place in heaven is a minor issue that explains a lot. And you can wrap yourself up in the martyrs mantle, but I won’t allow you to peddle Anthony Buzzard’s crap here.

          • D34D 4L!3N

            youre trying to rationalize what you want context to mean but its obvious to anyone wanting to know what the context is, that Jehovah created his son and taught him to create and so he did as his fathers master worker therefore being the wisdom of his father as the first created son which obviously whould have had to be created solely by Jehovah alone and when Jehovah created his first son he used himself as a reference for his first creation which is why Michel is a representation of his father who made him

            • Merton

              “Jehovah created his son and taught him to create” show me the scriptures where Jehovah taught him to create. Show me the scriptures where Jesus is called his son before Jesus’ time on the earth.

              “being the wisdom of the father as the first created son” If that is a proverbs 8 reference, then why is Wisdom personified as a female, personified as a bride throughout the book of proverbs? Wouldn’t it be a male, and isn’t Jesus the bridegroom? Again where is this reference that Jesus was the first created son before anything else was created??

              “Michael is a representation of his father” Michael literally means ‘who is like God’, Show me in the bible where it says MICHAEL is a representation of the Father. Show me where it says Michael gave up his life as an angel, and came down into the womb of Mary.

              Did the bible just forget to mention all these things? Did the holy spirit forget to inform the writers? Even in Paul’s letters, he makes no reference to Jesus now being called Michael. We don’t know Christ according to the flesh anymore, yet he still calls him Jesus. Why doesn’t Jehovah mention to Moses in Deuteronomy 18 that he’s sending one of his spirit lads down from heaven. There is extreme eisegesis going on here. If Jehovah wanted us to know Michael is Jesus, it would be plain to see in the scriptures. Exactly the same with the trinity. In fact does this storytelling you’ve just done remind you of anything?

            • D34D 4L!3N

              Jesus is Michael. just by reading your comment the truth its obvious to you already. the bride of Christ must all be women eh and Jehovah does eveything by talking while his sons do nothing eh (wipes dust off feet) answer your own questions

            • Sorry Satan! Jesus isn’t Michael.

              The teaching that Jesus is Michael the Archangel is an old, tired Arian argument. The early Adventist pioneers taught the heresy called “Arianism” which teaches that Jesus is not God the Son, the second Person of the Trinity. Those who believe this false doctrine teach that Jesus is an exalted angel. Those, such as Jehovah’s Witnesses, who promote this heresy today teach that Jesus is Michael the Archangel.

            • THE BIBLE SAYS:
              “For to which of the angels did He ever say, ‘Thou art My Son, today I have begotten thee?'” Hebrews 1:5 (emphasis added).
              “But of the Son He says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever…'” Hebrews 1:8a (emphasis added).
              “But to which of the angels has He ever said, ‘Sit at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?’ Are they [the angels] not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?” Hebrews 1:13-14 (emphasis added).

              It is clear from Scripture that Jesus is NOT and has never been an angel or an archangel!

            • Trinitarians who repeat this show how absolutely clueless they are. They don’t even bother to read the context or expend one synapse thinking about it. But the trinitarians folly is quite plain. Just answer the apostle’s unspoken rhetorical question: Jehovah did not declare any angel his son, so he did he proclaim to be his Son?Jehovah declared Jesus to be his son when Jesus was baptized and anointed with holy spirit. Jesus was a man at the time. Humans are lower than angels. That’s the point. Or are you peddling the con game that God anointed himself and declared himself to be his son? Incredible! Better go peddle that drivel somewhere else. No one here is gonna buy it.

            • let us create man in our image.
              only-begotten son.
              only-begotten god.
              All things came into existence through him and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
              He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things; because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him, and through him to reconcile again to himself all [other] things by making peace through the bloody [he shed] on the torture stake, no matter whether they are the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Still smashing it DA! That Merton guy was a proper muppet. Love your comments to Michael Marrero DA and that comment by Erik…miss him!

            • Merton

              Apologies I’ve only just seen this now.

              All things came into existence through him and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. I’d agree. All the things of the Law, even things before that were pointing to Christ. You should be able to see Jesus all over the Old Testament. Doesn’t mean he existed then.

              He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things; because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him, and through him to reconcile again to himself all [other] things by making peace through the bloody [he shed] on the torture stake, no matter whether they are the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens.

              Anybody with any shred of reasoning, can clearly see Paul is talking about the resurrected Christ. The resurrected Christ is the firstborn of the dead. The resurrected Christ is the head of the body. The resurrected Christ is the image of the invisible God. You only see a pre-extistence Christ, because you want to see it. You see ‘creation’ and immediately thing it’s talking about Genesis 1:1. Go read 2 Corinthians 5. Then tell me if you believe ‘creation’ always means Genesis 1:1.

            • Please8834

              Merto….Your reasoning is drivel. The book of Genesis explains who jesus is ever so simple. Let “US” make man in “OUR” Image! Not, in my image!

            • Merton

              Talk about reading your doctrine into the text. The trinitarians do this with this verse. If I wanted to believe in a 100,000 person godhead, I could read my belief into this verse too.

              Use your brain. You’re not stupid. The only ‘beings’ who share Jehovah’s image at this point in time are the heavenly angels.

  • So Jesus is false god in NWT John 1:1! Go fig!

    • Hi Thomas, you are welcome to post here but I would advise you to get some basic facts straight and go fig, as you say. First, at John 17:3 in prayer Jesus referred to his Father as the only true God. You get that? I would take Jesus’ word for it.

      • Isaac of Coimbatore

        Nice comment brother

    • Bonnie Russell

      Jesus is as close to the God as you can get but yet does not claim to be as good as God, hence why his father Jehovah is the only true God. That’s not the same thing as saying all others who could be called gods except the father are false gods. Even Moses was called a god over Pharaoh. That is not to say Moses was therefore a false god too.

      • Merton

        Good point. Psalm 82:6 (which Jesus also quoted) is a good one to use too.

        The point is is that you can call someone God, without that person actually being the One Supreme God, Jehovah, the Father. Trinitarians have no concept of this. So when Jesus is (debatably) called God, they have no idea what is going on, even though scripture shows mere humans can be correctly called God.

    • Isaac of Coimbatore

      Thomas Dickensheets : Just tell me if Word and God is one and the same person why the preposition WITH occurs between the Word was WITH God in John:1:1. When the preposition WITH is used? It is used only if they are two separate persons. Suppose would you expect someone will say I am with myself? No if I am with someone then we will use the preposition WITH. So according to you God and word is same person means God is saying he is with himself. May be you are worshiping a Psychogod which is trinity = God is with himself. I think better become an Hindu it was an ancient religion that worshiped Trimurthy.

      You teach Hinduism in terms of Christianity, better come and preach in India the Hindus will listen and convert into Christohindu who will again worship their gods in terms of Father Son and Holy spirit. How ridiculous is your trinity. You know in India if you preach trinity the Hindus say hey guys you Christians copied from us and that is what is there in your Bible.

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