The Appointed Times of the Nations

//The Appointed Times of the Nations

Commentary on the Daily Text of Jehovah’s Witnesses

Sunday, December 10

Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?Acts 1:6.

Before Jesus ascended to heaven, his apostles asked the above. Jesus’ answer showed that it was not the time for them to know when God’s Kingdom would start ruling. He told his disciples to focus on the important witnessing work that they needed to do. (Acts 1:7, 8) Nevertheless, Jesus taught his followers to look forward to the coming of God’s Kingdom. So Christians since the days of the apostles have been praying for it to come. When the time approached for God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus to start ruling from heaven, Jehovah helped his people to understand the timing of events. In 1876, an article written by Charles Taze Russell was published in the magazine Bible Examiner. That article, “Gentile Times: When Do They End?,” pointed to 1914 as a significant year. The article linked the “seven times” of Daniel’s prophecy with “the appointed times of the nations” spoken of by Jesus.

I know I have covered this ground many times before and I hate to repeat myself; but I am compelled to because the Watchtower keeps repeating the same lies over and over and over again. 

When Charles Russell and a small group of Christians began meeting regularly to study the Bible they were intent on determining if what the churches taught was true. And very quickly they realized that the underlying doctrinal foundation of Christendom was a fraud.

But what is amazing, is that, even as the Bible Students were coming to realize the elementary things, that Jehovah was not a trinity, that the soul dies, that hell is the grave, etc., they also believed that Christ’s second coming had already taken place. And although they were just beginning to understand the basic teachings of the Bible, they became convinced that they understood everything, even the deep and weighty things of prophecy. Although they were diligent in studying to discover the simple doctrine,  the Bible Students apparently accepted unquestioningly the totally unfounded notion of an invisible parousia. And at the time Russell also taught that the Kingdom of God had began ruling in 1878. According to the chronology borrowed from the Adventists, the so-called Gentile times were due to expire in 1914, which would bring about the war of Armageddon.

Obviously, the world didn’t end in 1914. What Christ said to his inquiring apostles is also true in Russell’s case: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.”

What is ironic, though, Russell was actually right about the meaning of the end of the appointed times of the nations. How so? Although there is no scriptural justification for the Watchtower’s teaching that the appointed times of the nations began in 607 B.C.E., Russell was right as regards the expiration of the appointed times of the nations would result in the utter destruction of the present system. For example, Ezekiel 30:2-3 says regarding the fall of Egypt: Howl, you people, ‘Alas for the day!’ for a day is near, yes, a day belonging to Jehovah is near. A day of clouds, an appointed time of nations it will prove to be.” 

As regards the present beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it was long after 1914 that the Watchtower jiggered things around. They moved the beginning of the invisible presence from 1874 to 1914, and reset the Kingdom coming to power from 1878 to 1914. Also, the beginning of the time of the end was moved up from 1799 to 1914. However, the chronology attached to the appointed times was retained. The end of the Gentile times in 1914 has merely been redefined into virtual meaninglessness. Instead of the end of nations 1914 marked the start of the Great War in Europe, from which the nations have long since recovered and prospered in ways that were unimaginable just a generation ago.

Now the end of the appointed times of the nations does not mean that the nations under Satan’s domination would not continue to tyrannize mankind, it merely means that the nations could not dominate that which is represented by Jerusalem.

But the Watchtower contradicts its own implied definition of what the fulfillment of the appointed times of the nations mean. Following are just a couple is examples.

On the one hand it is insightful on the part of the Watchtower to recognize that the trampling of Jerusalem by the nations has to do with their opposition to Christ’s heavenly kingdom. And because Christ is far above the reach of the nations on earth their trampling of “Jerusalem” is expressed by their persecution of Jesus’ followers.

It is important to note that when Jesus spoke of the desolation of the holy place and Jerusalem by a disgusting thing, which would in reality commence the appointed times of the nations, he specifically referred the reader to the prophecy of Daniel and exhorted us to use discernment. Likely Jesus had in mind the 8th chapter of Daniel, the 13th verse specifically foretells the trampling of the holy place, saying: “How long will the vision of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation continue, to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?”

According to the Watchtower the holy place associated with Christ’s congregation was trampled on during the Second World War. Besides the sheer absurdity of supposing that a few trifling changes to the charter of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in 1944 brought the holy place into its right condition, the mere fact that the Watchtower teaches that their supposed holy place was trampled upon and made desolate after the appointed times for the nations to trample “Jerusalem” ended, contradicts 1914 as the end of the appointed times.

The same folly is duplicated in the Watchtower’s explanation of the 11th chapter of Revelation. There the trampling of the holy place by the nations is said to span 42 months. However, according to the Watchtower that was fulfilled back during WWI —again, after the appointed times for the nations to trample God’s holy place had supposedly expired.

Clearly, contrary to their boast, it does not belong to the Watchtower to obtain the knowledge of times and seasons. On the contrary, because of the Watchtower’s fraud and deceit it has brought about the situation reminiscent of the Jews prior to the destruction of Jerusalem, to whom Jesus said: “You did not discern the time of your being inspected.”

2017-12-10T12:51:57+00:00 December 10th, 2017|Commentary|55 Comments
  • Seeker forGod’sKingdom

    The worshiper “with spirit” understands that the “teaching of Christ” is the basis of understanding (interpretation) of the prophecies … and the Song of Moses settle the “spinal column” of the events regarding God’s people during the ‘latter days”
    the “spiritual” Israel means those “called to be holly” – a holy nation/people for Jehovah -Romans 9:6 ; Titus 2:14 ; 1Peter 2:9
    They have received the command to watch for … Hebrew 12:16
    The Song of Moses (or of Jehovah) shows us that “His sons and daughters” have turned their hearts from Jehovah and disobeyed in many ways and as the result Jehovah has decided to punish them! EXACTLY , to punish His own people by allowing -for a certain fixed period of time- the “strangers” or “other nations” to “trample” His own people , people of whom individuals build up exactly God’s Temple (1 Cor.3:16) – again the spiritual meaning –
    … so, “the appointed time of the nations” means the time when Jehovah punishes his own people , a period of great distress for His children – Daniel 11:36 / exactly during this “period of Jehovah’s anger / indignation” …. this period is the time when the MoL is ruling in God’s Temple … THEN, the (day of) judgement comes, and Jesus with the sword coming out of his mouth (2Tess. 2:8) is destroying the lawlessness …that means, the anger of Jehovah ends over His people and go against the oppressors (enemies) of His people ..Deut. 32:36-43 / Daniel 7:25-27 / Ezekiel 21:25-27 / Isaiah 42:23-25 .
    Please, read the Song of Moses if you want to be counted among those “singing it” – Rev 15:2-4.

  • Yuri Fisher

    Hello servants of Jehovah.
    The minute I read today WT daily text today I knew Robert will write his comment on this subject. Before I did not pay attention on 1914 interpritation. Just like all JW I took it for truth. And only after reading this site and deeply thinking about it I began to realize that WT interpritation is wrong. Totally wrong. Thanks to Robert I started to study Bible well. And I discovered that more errors in WT teachings. Today I wonder how could I believe such stupid nonsense.Today I know that every one who studies about 1914 and accept this is a liar to Jehovah. And I do not want to lie to Jehovah. So I avoid 1914 as much as possible. Never again I will teach false teachings. But every one who baptize as JW is a liar, and every elder who teaches falsehood from platform is a liar. He lies to himself to others and most important to Jehovah. This is real strange. JW today are all liars. This is fault of leaders GB. They are the main couse of those false they are the source.

    May Jesus come swiftlly and destroy the lies of WT.

    Blessings to you all

    • The Raven

      Hi Yuri. There’s a bit more going on concerning this. We know there is an evil influence at work and we know Jehovah’s servants are deaf and blind. They have been brought under this influence and it’s going to get worse. There is also a great apostacy foretold to occur so, as bad as things are now…we haven’t seen anything yet. The greatest blame goes to their leadership, no doubt but when Christ arrives the truth will be revealed. They must then decide if they worship Jehovah, accept Christ or the wto. Until that time I am reminded that Jehovah permits this to happen so they can be tested later. Those who like you knkw the truth teach only basics and stear clear of the prophetic errors and lies. It’s a tightrope but for now it’s the best way to handle it. I hope things are ok for you there. 😊

    • Craig Knight

      Yuri – The WT loves making everything over complicated. I think they should have invested in making pretzel because they are so good at twisting things around. At least a pretzel and a Guinness are enjoyable. Ha ha!

      • David

        They are nothing more than a think tank, with a huge writing and publishing platform. Much like the crooked Political jackassaes of our times. Robert is a better more truthful writer, who puts his whole heart and soul into it for Jehovah. And he must be blessing him, be a use he makes sense. Stay humble Bro. KING Stay humble.

        • Isaac of Coimbatore

          You are right David not that And he must be blessing him, I believe that Jehovah has anointed Robert and blessed him.

        • Craig Knight

          That’s for sure David. The wt has cranked out so much trash they had to dump everything written from the early 1900’s and before all the way to 2000. Now we have to use our own mind and consciences to make sense out of everything. Most JW’s have the wt as their conscience – so we have to learn how to use our own. RK certainly has been blessed with insight on scripture that’s for sure.

      • Isaac of Coimbatore

        Not not only pretzels brother they are gong to make Watchtower blue whale prophecies and those who believe that will be asked to commit suicide.

        • Craig Knight

          Yeah watch out for the kool aid!

    • Isaac of Coimbatore

      Yuri Fisher See my above comment it will add to your faith.

  • Craig Knight

    The disgusting thing that causes desolation will be put in place on day 1,230 in the first half of the week when the seven headed beast revives and springs into the eighth king. Revelation 17:11. At this point – Daniel’s 1,290 days begins.

    The 8th king will destroy the anointed of God Before the 2nd half of the tribulation because as Revelation 11: shows their bodies will lie in the public eye for 3 1/2 years. So when they are revived they will be alongside Christ to destroy the beast and this wicked world. So the Gentile times are the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. I’m pretty sure I have this right but feel free to correct me. 🙂

    7Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

    11But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

    • Isaac of Coimbatore

      Brother nice insight!!

      • Song of Hannah

        Makes sense to me too!

  • Sharon

    well heres a thought what if in light of world events that are being discussed at this time,that Jerusalem actually plays a part in this final fullfilement again.I mean in light of it again becoming the topic of discussion right now,and the rebuilding of the 3rd temple,just a thought,you never know.

    • into the light

      That’s the point, that we don’t know. We can’t know how the prophecies will play out until they start producing what was foretold. We know only what the result will be, not how it will be brought about. I believe holy spirit will help the ones with insight discern what’s what in time.
      But if this Jerusalem situation actually fulfills the prophecy, we will know if it produces what was foretold. We just need to keep on the watch.

    • Craig Knight

      Sharon – maybe that explains Revelation 7 – And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.

      Notice vs 15 The Great Crowd are IN the temple….All of us including the nations are before the throne of God but that little 2 letter word IN has been bugging me. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

      • into the light

        Hey Craig, I just recently read an article on Beroeans website that discussed that subject. Go there and search for: How Can We Help Someone Grow Spiritually By Discussing the “Great Crowd”? Or alternately, just type those words in google and the first result will lead you there.
        Robert has also written about it although his writing is similar to what WT teaches regarding the “where”.

        • Craig Knight

          HI ITL – I visited their site a few weeks ago before my old laptop crashed and I read what they said about the great crowd. They seem to believe the same as JW’s for the most part except they think the 144,000 is symbolic and don’t have a problem with blood transfusion’s. We seem to make distinctions of groups who follow what we believe and look at them like they are separate from us. Why don’t we consider them our brother’s too? That’s the first thing that came to my mind. They believe in Jehovah and Kingdom don’t they? WT has made it so we need to consider everything we were taught because WT has lost all credibility with us and not just on prophecy but doctrine as well. It’s a drag to have to question so many teachings over again to make sure of all things to the extent we can. RK said this: Appropriately, the seventh chapter of Revelation depicts the great crowd as standing before the throne. While some unreasoning persons imagine that to be a reference to their being in heaven.

          But Rev 7 vs 15 says – The Great Crowd are IN the temple! So I’d like to know what that means. It can’t mean the outer courtyard because the greek word naos means the temple where God resides. I sincerely want to know the answer.

          • into the light

            Craig, I make no distinction and I consider them brothers as well. I regularly visit their site along with this one, as they critically review weekly WT study and the mid-week Christian Ministry study.
            Bible does say in the temple. As per Kingdom Interlinear translation, the word ναῷ (naō) is translated as divine habitation. That word was also used to refer to Most Holy in the temple.

            As per strong’s Dictionary:

            naos: a temple
            Original Word: ναός, οῦ, ὁ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
            Transliteration: naos
            Phonetic Spelling: (nah-os’)
            Short Definition: a temple, shrine
            Definition: a temple, a shrine, that part of the temple where God himself resides.

            Read more:

            I also am wondering about this and have no clear understanding. Maybe we are asking wrong question here? Maybe we need to ask who is the great crowd, rather than where they are, since bible makes it clear that they are in the place where God resides. Bro king doesn’t convince me that he has a clear understanding either, as his understanding is mostly in line with WT.
            Interestingly, in the mailbag section of this site there is an article named “Is the great crowd in heaven or on earth?” (October 29, 2017), but for some reason the link doesn’t work anymore.

            • Craig Knight

              ITL – Yeah it’s kind of silly to look down our noses at people who follow Jehovah’s word as much as possible. There is no way all of us will always think 100% the same, it’s not
              realistic to expect that either. Would God destroy good people who might have one or two ideas different than ours? Example if a person believe’s in his heart that he is anointed and gets killed and is raised to the earth because he wasn’t really a chosen one – would that person be disappointed to be on the earth? I don’t think so and in my opinion God certainly wouldn’t destroy one of his children for being in error. Check out my comments to LH. I have always believed in the 2 class system of those in heaven ruling with Christ and since the anointed are all killed by the beast – only the Great Crowd come through the Tribulation.

            • into the light

              Hey Craig, I read your comment to LH. It makes sense. After I replied to you yesterday I looked for more scriptures and Rev 21:3 came up which lead me to same conclusion that you had. But Rev. 7:11 says that angels were there too, so I think there might be more to it.

            • The Raven

              One possible explanation is that when scripture speaks of Jehovah’s tent being spread over mankind and them being in the presence of God it isn’t too far a stretch to state that the angels will once again have direct dealings with humanity. They have in the past as we know to a limited degree. The revealing of the anointed sets a precedent. and that IMO carries over Into the new kingdom. We will need instruction and guidance. Since even Christ manifested Himself to certain ones after He was risen, I wouldn’t doubt that we could also see something similar to that happening in revelation. What stops this from happening now?
              The fact that the devil is the ruler of this earth. Looks like a lot of things get turned upside down with Christ’s presence and the sons of God being revealed. I find it difficult to try to use past fulfillment to explain a situation which has never before existed. It’s a game changer for sure.

            • Craig Knight

              I agree with Raven that all mankind will have visitor’s from heaven. That will be something t o look forward to for sure.

            • Craig Knight

              ITL – I read that whole article on Is the great crowd in heaven or on earth and read all the series of articles. Lots of food for thought there for sure. A question that I ask myself is what would have happened if WT never taught the Great Crowd in the 1930’s? Because now they say the heavenly calling is still open. Did the WT shut up the kingdom of heaven for many JW’s who have fallen asleep in death? If the 144,000 is a symbolic number then all Christians who know God’s name and purpose would follow the command of Christ and partake of the emblems. “Do this often in memory of me.” So it could be and it seems to be that that calling has never been closed from 33 ce to the present. So are 8 million or so JW’s today disobeying Christ’s command to partake? Maybe those many billions who have died in wars and famine etc, who never knew the basic truths will all be raised up to make up those meek ones that would inherit the earth that Jesus spoke about including the criminal who hung alongside him and that Jesus said would be in paradise. If the above is true and the Great Crowd are one in the same as the anointed then that could explain where those on the earth would come from. Questions seem to beget more questions. I think questioning things helps us to keep an eye on our comfort zone too. They can also make you nutty! 🙂

            • The Raven

              Are you suggesting that the great crowd also dies? Then who survives armegeddon? The 8 million are not disobeying as most do not claim to have a heavenly calling. Remember the 11th hour workers? That means the calling still continues. The wt cannot shut out Jehovah or Christ. I do not see evidence for the dead alone to inherit the earth. We do have plenty of evidence for a number of people to survive after being subjected to tribulation. We get to bury the bones of the dead, for one.

            • Craig Knight

              No raven I was just trying to understand the point of view from someone who thinks all are anointed. And tossing around things I have thought about but don’t necessarily agree with. You know how you say what if this happened or that happens. I was watching this southern preacher on youtube not too long ago go into the Great Crowd and of course they all say they are heaven bound. Then He started talking about the beast but right behind him was an american flag. So I guess He doesn’t understand who the beast is going to be. Anyway I was just expressing how some might think things would work out if all are intended to go to heaven as anointed. My son and I are always kicking around ideas and then look at what’s wrong or right about them. No worries I just like to do the what if thing once in a while.

            • The Raven

              It was a very different thought and I wondered since we know folks will survive Armageddon into the new kingdom. We’ve all done our fair share of speculating on matters so I’m not surprised I was just following up with questions.
              As far as the WT goes, I was not very familiar with much of their views on matters other than the major disagreements I had with them concerning everything in Revelations.
              Just because they say something doesn’t mean much to me. They may be right or wrong and examination of it will prove it where it can be known, that is. I know Robert has focused mainly on them but in the process has also brought a great deal of truth to light even for those like me who had not had much exposure to the WT. I realize a lot of folks are still trying to think outside that box and I’m finding from reading this site that it’s difficult since some can see the truth, no matter who states it and others just trash all of it because of who said it. That’s the strangest thing to me still. I know, you aren’t like that. I agree, Craig. we should examine things and sift and sort to see where we stand.

            • Burt Reynolds

              That is very true….’no matter who states (truth) they trash it because of who said it.’ As the bible says, unless someone tells them, how will they know? Therefore, to the reasoning, someone has to be speaking truth. However, being human, believing that, is both a blessing for some, a trial for others. Peace or doubt, lies or truth. So long as it keeps someone away from the subject matter, that is all that Satan requires.

            • The Raven

              I agree. Lots of talk, sensationalism and outright hysterics along the way. But some folks like it that way. The huge audience the televangelists have is a good example. People want a show. Well, we’re all about to get one alright.

            • Craig Knight

              Looking at things from different angles can make us grow. I usually try to do that to test the things I am learning. It also helps to know how others think so we can make a defense of our faith. It’s so refreshing to have people around me who are open minded.

          • L.H.

            Hi Craig, just a thought. Maybe at that time the whole universe is considered to be Gods temple. (…”the tent of God is with mankind”…. B.t.w. that stresses the point there are earthlings involved in Jehovah’s plan). It is also in accordance with the scripture that says the earth is Jehovah’s footstool.

            • The Raven

              Good point. They do come out of the tribulation and by then we have the kingdom.

            • Craig Knight

              That’s what I was thinking. The tent of God is with mankind came to my mind as my son and I were discussing this subject. The temple’s influence will definitely be with those on the earth. Rev 21 – A New Heaven and a New Earth

              1Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”a for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’b or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

              This makes sense here where in vs 2 it says the Holy City and the new Jerusalem or the Temple is coming down out of heaven – I guess this means the temple of God comes to the earth in a spiritual sense not a literal one. vs 3 says God will dwell with mankind like He did with Adam. We know that in reality there is no temple but God so the temple is symbolic of God’s rule over the universe.
              Rev 22 – Speaking of the heavenly temple – I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

              The nations walk by God’s light or his spirit. Hey I should thank myself for answering my own question! Ha ha! This makes sense to me now – Do any of you think this is on target?

            • Daisy

              Yes I do Craig! Congratulations lol, as you’ve already quoted it yourself above…”there is *no temple* because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb *ARE IT’S TEMPLE . so Is there any need for a Temple where God and the Lamb are manifestly present…So if we take into account Christ’s words to the church of Philadelphia in Rev 3 we read that all who are victorious, the great multitude those rescued for Gods Kingdom ( the new heavens and the new earth), those who’ve washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb and therefore are rescued through the great tribulation because of what this great multitude have done and are blessed v12…”As for the one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; he will be secure, and will go out no more and I will write my God’s name on him, and he will be a citizen in the city of my God – the New Jerusalem, *coming down from heaven* from my God; and he will have my new Name inscribed upon him” Let all who hear, *listen * to what the spirit is saying to the churches/Ekklesia/ congregations/assemblies…

            • Craig Knight

              Hi Daisy – Yeah my poor head is spinning from all my questions but I’m glad I am able to express them here and grateful to have open minded people here on the forum. I probably annoy you all sometimes but I have come a long way. Digging for treasure is hard work! 🙂

            • The Raven

              Very good reasoning, Craig. Once the kingdom arrives it will envelope all. In the meantime we deal with an imperfect arrangement which still functions in some capacity to preach that kingdom until Christ arrives.
              It is then when we will be brought into the right condition and we will all be in the “temple”.

            • Craig Knight

              Yes the Temple will be ubiquitous at that point. Won’t that be a huge relief to make it there? Just this week my sweet old mother ended up in the hospital with heart trouble as she is now 88 years old. She might not make it so I have been thinking about the kingdom more than ever this week.

            • The Raven

              I’m sorry about your mother. I hope she will pull through. I understand how times like this can bring the kingdom to the front and center. After all, we know what’s in store for all of us including those asleep. It does help to know but nonetheless the present pain sucks. I don’t care how old we are it still hurts. God bless you both.

            • Craig Knight

              Hey thanks Raven I appreciate that. I haven’t seen her for 2 years or more because of the shunning thing. In 2 years she has really gotten old and fragile. It’s truly sad to see our loved ones grow old. She is 88 years old and has to undergo open heart surgery. I’m not sure she will make it. She loves me dearly as I love her and this horrid shunning policy has come between us. I let her know I was back to serving Jehovah and she was so happy to hear that. So I was able to encourage her. I told her I was studying with a Brother. She asked me who this brother was and I told Robert King! 🙂

            • The Raven

              That’s right, Craig. You are studying with a brother. I’m glad that made her happy.

          • Bklyn Kevin

            More food for thought.

            What is the temple of his body?
            Jesus’ body was accepted by God as a sacrifice. After Jesus was resurrected on the third day, as he foretold he would be, Jesus became the foundational cornerstone of what is to be a spiritual temple —a new organizational arrangement that would eventually entirely replace the temple-centered, Jewish religious system. And Jesus himself is the Melchizedek-like high priest who officiates within the spiritual temple. It is not that Jesus’ physical, fleshly body is in anyway worshiped, but it was his life as a perfect man and his obedience into death that made it possible for sinful humans to be accepted into this temple-like system, over which Jesus Christ himself presides.
            Read more>

            • Craig Knight

              Hi Kevin! – Thanks for sharing that article – I liked it and copied it into my documents for future reference.

        • Burt Reynolds

          Maybe there is a sprinkling of insight into meaning in the Borean site. I have been there now and again in desperate search for truth. But then, what is truth? To us mere mortals I suggest that truth is a two edged sword for us and oft appears to be what makes us feel safe; something that makes us rest easy, secure. And this is what I find at Boreans. I read an article and before I get very far, there is some human interpretation that critically, belongs to that personal sense of what happens, rather than belongs to the bible. That is not reasoning, but self belief. Someone wants this belief confirmed. Whereas of course, the bible demands reason and faith and there is a marked difference between faith and belief. Others feel that so strongly that they accuse those that do not believe as they do, of worshiping the speaker.

          The bible says that love believes all things but that belief is not without insight, but is a belief in all things that are true and of holy righteousness in union with Jehovah. Faith is a hoped for expectation. Hence the difficulty in the details we search for under the guise of knowledge but is instead, our search for reassurance.

          I noticed that Raven said that the good news can be written on an index card, and that is actually true by all standards and when the original Boreans went to check on what Paul said, they did so from what the scriptures alone said, as did Paul when advising on circumcision and of food offered to idols and blood. The bible is at once, far more simple than expected, and obversely, hidden, far beyond the understanding of man. The scrolls appear on the cusp of being opened and if they are opened, what we need to know will come to us. That is true of all books and is the responsibility of the writer. Else, what is the point of writing? That information in terms of the bible will either be passed on physically or through inspiration. Just as with the watchtower, its open sores are visible to all and to those that have eyes to see, they see it. The decision to not see, is by choice. I wonder if our task is to listen passively as did those who ‘heard’ Christ, ‘tell us, when will these things be…’, and in this day, to check against the scripture. That is where love is seeded.

          It is ridiculous to say don’t look (everywhere) for Gems, but we already have explained to us all that we need to know, and as pointed out by Craig , questioning and questioning again, does not move us on, so why search for truth when it is already found? It’s only my personal opinion, but I feel the watchtower has a point where it advises ( or used to in my day ), that if its not written in the bible, leave it well alone lest we get over burdened. If we are to believe the position of the watchtower in prophesy, then it stands to reason that in some places of doctrine, Robert’s offering is going to be similar to the watchtower and thus may be uncomfortable to us through association. In the end analysis, it appears that the test is one of faith, love and our inner heart condition. The bible says it stands alone on love, not detail, not knowledge or endless searching for what cannot yet be found. My ‘love’ of Jehovah has materialised from things I have read here and I have not found that to be true of anywhere else. This is not a heresy in my opinion, but borne of factual biblical knowledge, it has nothing to do with who speaks it, but everything to do with what is said.

          • The Raven

            “Robert’s offering is going to be similar to the watchtower and thus may be uncomfortable to us through association. In the end analysis, it appears that the test is one of faith, love and our inner heart condition. The bible says it stands alone on love, not detail, not knowledge or endless searching for what cannot yet be found”
            It’s an interesting detail for sure. Who am I kidding! It’s all interesting but I agree it doesn’t really change much. If I’m not mistaken, Robert himself mentioned that the watchtower missed something about the great crowd and that he would explain that later. Maybe I missed it but we all know some of these prophecies are either not fully understood or yet to be revealed.

            • Craig Knight

              Good point Raven!

          • Craig Knight

            Maybe there is a sprinkling of insight into meaning in the Borean site. I have been there now and again in desperate search for truth. But then, what is truth? To us mere mortals I suggest that truth is a two edged sword for us and oft appears to be what makes us feel safe; something that makes us rest easy, secure. And this is what I find at Boreans. I read an article and before I get very far, there is some human interpretation that critically, belongs to that personal sense of what happens, rather than belongs to the bible.

            Hey Burt – I think all we can do is interpret scripture as humans because we are humans – at least the last time I checked! Just teasing you Burt. I know what you mean tho – some things others say brings up a red flag in our brains. Whenever I hit a speed bump like Rev 7:15 I like to get a sensible answer and it keeps bugging me until I find a reasonable answer. I want to be able to make a defense for my faith to others with a sound argument. Anyhoo, check out my response to LH.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hi Craig, All I’m suggesting really is that the test of faith is entrenched in the heart condition and it love of righteousness. My personal view, it’s not the same for everyone, is simply one of cultivating those things of the spirit and essentially, I get that from my appreciation of provision, such as it is. Do we not think the test of faith will be the same….’oh, is this the right one or is that the right one….who are you going to call? ‘Hang on I’ll just go and have a chat with ********* site.’ We need to prepare now. I learnt a long time ago of the benefits found in the scripture to ‘drink at my own well’ because consistency has its own rewards as it brings clarity and continuity of purpose. The touchstone always being the bible. The ‘well’ we choose for ourselves to make our own, either now, or at the Parousia contains the waters of life and slakes the thirst for righteousness and gives us time to appreciate it.

            • Craig Knight

              Hi Burt – I agree with you that we need to cultivate our faith now and I have been working and studying hard to do just that. Drinking at your own well is a good way to put it. It seems that it is ok to disagree on certain points with our brothers and still be acceptable to God. WT has trained us to think that we need to agree on every little thing they threw at us. So that can be a bad habit. Christians can disagree with each other if the bible doesn’t make a subject crystal clear and also when it comes to eating and drinking or anything else – if a brothers conscience says a certain thing is ok and another Christian’s conscience condemns him then they are both right. The heart and conscience need to be developed by the individual not some man or group of men. 1 Cor 10 – I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience? Paul talked about having a clear conscience Acts 24: I have the same hope in God that they themselves cherish, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16In this hope, I strive always to maintain a clear conscience before God and man. I think God allows certain give and take on belief and as we know the return of Christ will clarify things for all of us.

      • Bklyn Kevin

        The temple Is the place where Jehovah caused his name to reside.

        Rather, seek Jehovah your God wherever he chooses to establish his name and his place of residence among all your tribes, and go there Deuteronomy 12:5 .

        They the great crowd which consists / come out of all the nationse are in the temple in that they are protected “guests” of Jehovah for a thousand years because they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

        O Jehovah, who may be a guest in your tent? Psalm 15:1
        Who may reside in your holy mountain?.

        With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them Revelation 21:3

        Why guests you might ask? because they did not fully come back to life and that won’t happen until the thousand years is up as they are still not perfect / sin free.

        Read more> When will the dead come to life?

        Read a lot more>Search results for: temple.

  • Isaac of Coimbatore

    I like to comment on Holy place: from Mark13:14: “However, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader use discernment)
    See the sentence where it should not be, that means Jesus was telling that where the disgusting thing not supposed to be it is there. Yes I am sure Jesus was referring to the Christian congregation as Holy place not idol worshiping Christendom.
    Christendom is an intimate part of United Nations.Take for example the Roman Catholic Church which is also called as Holy See was granted permanent observer state (i.e., non-member state) status on 6 April 1964. In that capacity,………….. it has been able to influence the decisions and recommendations of the United Nations.


    So the sentence desolation standing where it should not be does not fit to Christendom.
    Just think when you will say disgusting thing where it should not be?

    Assume you prepare a Chicken biriyani, suppose if the cockroach is there in the food only then you will say that disgusting insect is there where it should not supposed to be.

    The world political system is disgusting thing only to Christian congregation because the head of Christian congregation is Jesus Christ but the head for the world political system is Satan. If the world political system stands against Christian congregation, it is as if Satan is standing in the place of Jesus Christ where Satan should not supposed to be that is what Mat:24:15,16 and Mark:13:14 actually mean.

    The world political system is not disgusting thing to Christendom because Christendom is having the intimate relation with the world political system also Christendom is prostitute as per WTS and it is true. So if Christendom is prostitute is there any thing disgusting for a prostitute? Because a prostitute is a woman who will go to any men shamelessly. It is disgusting only if other man other than husband comes near to a good wife (gruha lakshmi = honorable Indian title for a good house wife).

    If Jesus is standing in the Congregation means it is as if husband is standing near to his wife (bride class). But at Mat: 24:15, 16 disgusting thing standing means it is Satan standing near to the bride of Christ, where Satan should not supposed to be which is disgusting that is what Mark:13:14 clears up. Well so blind is the Watchtower Society because the word of God at Isa:42:19 must be fulfilled. Oh just like Caiaphas how well they prophesied on themselves that The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. 12th paragraph

  • Isaac of Coimbatore

    The watchtower society applies the 4th chapter of Daniel’s tree to the kingdom of Judah and by doing some complex calculation applying Num: 14:34 rule on seven times of Daniel and proves that in 1914 Jesus became King. HAVE ANY ONE OF YOU NOTED THAT THE Watchtower society skips all the verses from 10-12, of Daniel 4th chapter but it is only applies verses 14-16 on the Kingdom of Judah, even in that it skips the beginning of verse 16 because the watchtower has no explanation how for the kingdom of Judah the heart be changed from that of a human, and let it be given the heart of a beast but it applies only seven times in verse 16. This is not the way how you apply the prophecy, what fits to your needs. If you apply one then the whole prophecy has to be applied and co-related. The present the teaching of the watchtower that Jesus became King in 1914 stands as a false prophecy and misleading the salves of Jesus Christ, which is nothing but Jezebel.

  • Isaac of Coimbatore

    Brother Robert one Joke: What the Joke is that according to Russel and WTS if gentile times ended in 1914 how is that the new gentile nation India got its independence from the clutches of British empire on August 15th 1947? The bible says at Rev:6:15-17: people hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated as they were not able to withstand the wrath of Jesus’ Christ. So according to WTS the wrath of Jesus Christ is nothing it did not even effected the nations like India rather than India going and saying the mountain like British empire to protect from the wrath of Jesus India became an independent gentile nation and this is effect of wrath of Jesus. Oh may be Jesus’ wrath driven only British out of India and made India an independent gentile nation. I wish rather than honoring and remembering Mohandas Karamchand Gandhiji in India on August 15, India should remember Jesus. See how ridiculous is that if we believe in 1914 theory.

    • The Raven

      Hi Isaac. I am not surprised now that I understand why so many accepted the lies. I remember being told I had good knowledge but it had not reached my heart. Well, if I had to ignore my head to follow, I couldn’t do it. Sort of like falling in love, isn’t it? Lol!

  • JTK

    Robert please correct me if i have misunderstood
    you agree with CT Russel about what the end of appointed times means i.e it will result in the destruction of this present system
    however you go on to say that the end of the appointed times is only in reference to jerusalem (the sons of God) and that the nations under Satans influence would continue to Tyrannize mankind.

    • The Raven

      That’s odd. I’m wondering if that paragraph is a continuation of the wt views?

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