The Apostasy Comes First

//The Apostasy Comes First

Friday, September 2

Let everyone calling on the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.2 Tim. 2:19.

No text in the Hebrew Scriptures matches Paul’s quote. So, what was the apostle referring to when he said the above? Immediately preceding this statement, Paul quoted from Numbers chapter 16, which relates the account of Korah’s rebellion. The Bible says that Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, joined Korah as leaders of the rebellion against Moses and Aaron.  The account reads: “Jehovah then said to Moses: ‘Speak to the assembly and tell them, “Get away from around the tents of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram!”’” Jehovah then put to death all who had rebelled. Conversely, loyal worshippers—who by moving away renounced unrighteousness—were preserved alive. It is possible, then, that Paul was referring to the account at Numbers 16:5, 23-27. Such a conclusion would be in harmony with Paul’s words: “Jehovah knows those who belong to him.”

COMMENTARY

The article from where the day’s text is taken advises Jehovah’s Witnesses not to engage “apostates” in anyway, specifically mentioning avoiding commenting on their blogs. (According to the Watchtower’s criteria e-Watchman is not an apostate.) 

But in the account in Numbers regarding the rebellion instigated by Korah Jehovah required that persons take a deliberate action to separate themselves from the tents of the rebels. That is because those wicked men were in the midst of the Israelite camp. They were not outsiders who had gone out from among them. This is a very important distinction.

As it stands presently “apostates” are easily avoided and ignored. As depicted in the Watchtower article, a small faction of ex JW’s might picket a convention. And of course, there are numerous books and blogs published by ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses. And sadly, they have overturned the faith of many. But, obviously, they do not have any voice within the organization. In order to be influenced by them Jehovah’s Witnesses must seek them out in some fashion.

The reason I point out this obvious fact is because the account concerning the rebellion of Korah does not really fit the way the Watchtower would have you believe. Korah was a very prominent man within the camp. Along with 250 other Israelite chieftains of the assembly, who were “chosen ones of the congregation, prominent men,” they challenged Moses’ authority and apparently wanted to take over the priesthood. That is why Moses told them to appear with their fire holders and incense before the entrance of the tent of meeting and Jehovah would choose who was holy among them.

The following day  “Jehovah’s glory appeared to all the assembly.” That is when God commanded the Israelites to get away from the tents of the wicked. The ground then opened up and swallowed them down alive! The camp fled, screaming in terror. As if to put an exclamation point on it: “Then a fire came out from Jehovah and consumed the 250 men offering the incense.”

The account in Numbers foreshadows the ultimate separation of the faithful slave and the evil slaves at the coming of Christ. That is when the chosen ones will be distinguished from the evil ones. The appearance of Jehovah in glory signifies the glorious presence of Christ. Then the evil ones who are “despising authority, and speaking abusively of glorious ones” will become apparent. And the apostate man of lawlessness, who will by then have seated himself in the temple of God, will be exposed as a satanic fraud and destroyed.

To be sure, while the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, as Paul stated, and has been exhibited in various ways, such as the Watchtower’s secret partnership with the United Nations, the apostasy that will come first will immediately precede the day of Jehovah. We may expect that to become manifest during the chaos to come. 

Then, those calling upon the name of Jehovah will be required to renounce the unrighteousness of the Watchtower and separate themselves from the doomed organization, which will become an outright opposer of the greater Moses during his authentic parousia. 

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2017-04-18T06:45:26+00:00 September 2nd, 2016|Commentary|312 Comments
  • LW

    Stand tall.

  • ELiJAHxSEVEN

    I remember the picketing apostates outside a convention I attended years ago, being referred to as “snakes” from the podium, and we were to watch our step as we left the convention…it appeared to me that most of the “apostates” were just street vendors…but, I was careful to not buy anything…lol

    • Burt Reynolds

      Maybe they were selling ‘death by chocolate’ cake.

      • ELiJAHxSEVEN

        “apost-cake”

        • Burt Reynolds

          Filled with tempting sin. I expect it would also be adulterated false cream and left out to the apostate flies.

          • ELiJAHxSEVEN

            Thanks Burt, your palpable description has effectively made cake unpalatable for me…lol

            • Burt Reynolds

              Well you can’t have your cake and eat it!

            • Joel

              A veritable laugh riot! Great! Cudos to all! Lol!

            • Joel

              . . . and may I add, in the words of Marie Antoinette, “Let them eat cake!”

              . . . er, does that apply? Does it fit the “cake” theme? Probably not . . . embarrassed.

          • Joel

            . . . it’s gets better! Lol!

        • Joel

          Good one! Lol!

  • Burt Reynolds

    Hello Robert, you note that the apostasy will be evident before the day of Jehovah, but also say it will be manifest during the chaos to come. The example you give is the prominent ones in the camp who oppose Moses, and that this was evident immediately before their destruction the following day as they were told to attend the temple. If I have understood this correctly, what might we expect to be evident from the watchtower that will evidence their apostasy before the chaos?

    • ewatchman

      I had in mind war, famine, pestilence; in short, all the things that the WT teaches have already occurred beginning in 1914 and cannot occur again.

      That will be the beginning of pangs of distress. Then, as things progress there will be a great tribulation, but which is cut short. It is at that point when the occasion to get away from the tents of the wicked will present itself, or as Jesus put it: “When you catch sight of the disgusting thing standing where it ought not, then let those in Judea flee…”

      • Burt Reynolds

        Thanks. That’s clear now for me.

    • Bklyn Kevin

      The Secretary’s Inkhorn.
      Excerpt:
      Paul went on to explain that although the man of lawlessness exists prior to his being revealed, his lawless presence is not recognized as such —only the “mystery of this lawlessness is at work.” No doubt the revealing of the man of lawlessness will coincide with the disgusting thing standing in a holy place. Read more> https://e-watchman.com/the-sec

      How will Jehovah’s Witnesses come under attack?
      Excerpt:
      So, there are really two phases of the coming attack. The first phase will be an expression of God’s anger and will accomplish the harvest. Once the separation has taken place then God seals the chosen ones and grants them full membership in the heavenly kingdom. At that point God will have set matters straight and the full number of “Israel” will have been achieved. The attack of Gog comes upon those who will then have God’s unreserved favor, which will bring about a more or less instantaneous destruction of Satan’s world. Read more> https://e-watchman.com/under-w….

      Many Will Be Stumbled – Will You Be?. Read more>
      Excerpt:
      Question: Is the Watchtower Organization setting itself up to be a “false Messiah” or “false Christ” at the true Parousia?, Read more> https://e-watchman.com/many-wi

      • Burt Reynolds

        Thank you Kevin. That’s a lot clearer now.

  • Lisa

    Hello to everyone here. As an introduction, I was raised in the truth (born-in). I was a teenager during the 1975 scare and my parents bought it hook, line and sinker. I have endure many, many experiences in the organization and my local congregation that have caused my pain, sadness, loneliness and depression. Of course I was always told that the problem was with me. I spent my 20’s and 30’s in and out. I was never DF’ed but was treated like I was by my congregation. I made some bad choices in my younger years trying to find a way out of the strict control of the organization and my devoted Watchtower parents. I have many stories as I am sure most of you also have. I was an only child. My parents are both gone now. When my mother passed away, I had a lot of frustration about her control over me via the organization. I had a very emotional time trying to figure out why Jehovah wanted me to be sad and miserable to make him happy? I gave it one last try and prayed like I have never prayed before, I asked for him to give me a sign and show me something, anything to help me. The next time I got on line, there it was ! The Watchman’s Post. I read everything I could. I read the Book and it was like a light bulb moment. Thanks to Robert and his work, I have now come to love Jehovah again. That has been some time ago but I finally decided to join the discussion as I am totally ignored and shunned by my local congregation. I speak to everyone I can about Jehovah and Jesus and the kingdom. I hope I can become a sister in this group of truth lovers. The few superficial witness friends I have had decided to stop all contact after this years convention about shunning inactive ones. I look forward to learning and searching for the real truth with all of you!

    • Just keep swimming!

      Welcome! Hugs! Welcome again. ?

    • ewatchman

      Hi Lisa. Welcome to the asylum . I might suggest that you think about posting this in the Guest Book. That way it will be more accessible in the future when this post fades away.

      • Joel

        Hi Brother King. This is Joel.

        I recently posted an idea to you and the general population of E-Watchman friends about the possibility of us all getting together in a sort of E-Watchman Convention, or GATHERING, or something.

        I just thought it might be a good idea for all of us to meet face-to-face and encourage one another.

        Please tell me what you think dear Brother.

        Thanks.

        • ELiJAHxSEVEN

          That would be amazing to shake Brother King’s hand…so much gratitude here!

          • Joel

            Right!!!

        • Patrick Langat

          This is a good idea #Joel however some of us with little means to afford international travel may not make it. I suggest the first international e-watchman convention be held here in Kenya 😉

          • Joel

            Believe me Brother Patrick, I wish that were possible. But in truth, if there was ever to be an E-Watchman Convention, it would be held in the USA.

            . . . and don’t worry my brother, I would have your back! 🙂

            Much love,
            Joel

            • Patrick Langat

              #Joel, Sure it wouldn’t make sense to hold a meeting here in Kenya where there is only one ‘apostate’.

              On a second thought, unless an e-watchman convention is adhoc, I think it will need a lot of logistics i.e. someone may need to come up with the agenda, meeting program, book venue & security, sound system, … etc, challenges the e-watchman online has already overcome, furthermore the mandate of a watchman is to announce Jehovah’s judgements primarily to the house of God and not to gather a people, unless the people are also watchmen & women.

            • Joel

              That’s an interesting view. Ummm! I never thought of it like that.

              Thank you Patrick. Let me give this some more thought.

              . . . and by the way, YOU ARE NOT an apostate! Never accept that label! No. You are as Brother King puts it . . . ‘one who searches for truth. ‘

            • Volcanic

              Why USA, Joel? Would you have us all trapped there when the war breaks out? Oh noooo, not likely mate! I’m staying here where I can hide in the caves with my girls & my little dog

            • Joel

              Are you talking about Australia, or the Moors of Great Britain?

            • Volcanic

              nooooo, Joel, the Canary Islands (which most of the USA don’t know exists)
              Here, a bit of info about us;
              http://www.hellocanaryislands.com/tenerife/

            • Joel

              Oh! Off the coast of Spain! Ah! Well, you can still come.

              Once, and if Brother King approves, I am going to start a FUND for the members of our E-Watchman family who may need a little financial help to attend.

              Come on! I really want this to happen! What do you say Sis?

            • Joel

              I looked at the link . . . fantastic! I had no idea the Canary Islands was so inviting. I now see why the name “Volcanic.”

              By the way, how many brothers, er, Witnesses are in Spain in general, and the Canary Islands in particular?

        • Volcanic

          nothing to stop us having a Skype Convention though! I would not use my webcam because I have lost my tooth don’t forget & am saving for another or waiting until Jehovah ‘makes all things new’ including a new set of teeth destroyed by manic doctors prescribing heavy doses of steroids for asthma for years, when all they needed to do was prescribe chewing Cilantro/Coriander!!
          What is to stop you lot heading for the nearest sea passage, I’ve said before, get into the Atlantic & swim in the general direction of Morocco until you see my Volcano sticking out of the water then land on the nearest beach. You can’t get lost on my island, it takes less than a day to drive round it, in fact you could set off in the morning, stop for elevenses, do a spot of sunbathing, drive a bit more, stop for lunch & siesta, then drive & be back home for dinner!
          The BBQ area awaits in the mountains, just bring a guitar for flamenco’ing 🙂

          • Joel

            Sounds like a plan!

    • Burt Reynolds

      Hello Lisa, another truth seeker knocks on the door seeking entry. Welcome. If this is an asylum, as Robert says, then it certainly has a curative effect.

    • sally

      Hi Lisa! *big hugs* also to you! Oh and welcome to this lifesaver of a group!

    • Wow! Welcome Lisa Lisa! Your story sounds so similar to mine and many others. The pain and the hurt, we had to endure and many hardships to find the true truth about the truth . Jehovah has a way of bringing us all together in these final days! Praise Jehovah for not giving up on us !
      Sending you Love and kindness with plenty of hugs!
      Joseph https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/46a2f7e53d5cfbce14440bff83562ec40cf135d546b69813c3cc2af9aed53b17.jpg

      • Lisa

        wow, I had to laugh, Lisa Lisa is what my nickname was. thanks for the smile !

    • Volcanic

      Hooray, another sister to love 🙂 This is wonderful that Jehovah is building our family more quickly & larger every day. Stay with us Lisa & don’t worry about a thing, you are home now **hugs** xoxoxoxo

    • Joel

      Welcome, welcome, and oh by the way . . . did I say WELCOME!!! Lol!

      Lisa we are happy, yes, thrilled to have you join our E-Watchman family of true believers! As Sharon mentioned above, ‘Brother King’s . . .anointing is clearly visible in all his articles and comments.” Yes, we ALL here have benefited greatly by listening and paying attention to What Jehovah has given to Brother King to teach us.

      You have TRUE friends here among us Lisa! Our love for one another is not conditional, no. It is not governed by man-made rules and do’s and don’ts. No. It is an UNCONDITIONAL LOVE based on the clear unadulterated biblical eachings of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

      Now, while we are NOT apostates, and while we do not allow people to come on this site just to berate Jehovah’s Witnesses, we ARE NOT FOOLS either! We KNOW that the Governing Body has promoted false prophecy—including the egregious hoax of a Jesus parousia supposedly in 1914. We are also not caught unaware of the way the Organization has done nothing concrete about child-abuse run amock in the Congregations. No. We are also convinced that the biblically prophesied MAN OF LAWLESSNESS is not found in the churches of Christendom, no! But “he” is found right in OUR Organization’s midst! Yes he is indeed right among the brothers, the leaders at Bethel Headquarters!

      Yet, many of us still attend our meetings . . . we still are servants. Pioneers. examples in our respective congregations . . . and yes, we still preach to others about God’s great name and His soon-to- world Kingdom. Why? Because we recognize that for the time being, at least, Jehovah is STILL using the Watchtower Society to preach God’s Kingdom as Mankind’s only hope to honest-hearted ones in this dying and corrupt world. We are happy to share in that never-to-be-repeated work. It is for JEHOVAH’S GLORY alone . . . not because the Watchtower told us to.

      So welcome Lisa!!! Welcome my dear Sister! Keep posting your comments. They are very much appreciated! And if there is anything you need, anything at all, don’t be afraid to let us know. We are “true” brothers and sisters here! We love you unconditionally!

      So in the words of Brother King, “may Jehovah continue to bless your search for the truth.”

    • Kevin b

      Wow! When I read your post I got chills when you said, ” The next time I got on line, there it was ! The Watchman’s Post.” Jehovah does work in mysterious ways doesn’t he. This is truly a wonderful place to be, and to associate with like minded people. Welcome! I’m glad you decided to join us.

      • Volcanic

        I think it has been the same for a lot of us here, Kevin, I know I never felt the love in the congregation & I was upset about the things I saw which I didn’t feel good about. I didn’t know what to do because of the Scripture “who would we go away to?” I was terrified thinking that I must not love Jehovah enough & so He had abandoned me, I didn’t think I had a chance to get to the Paradise & thought I was better off dead now & that because of me my two beautiful girls would die too. It was the most horrible feeling in the world to think Jehovah hated me! I could cry now remembering those feelings.
        I prayed & cried a lot & searched on Youtube for weeks, night after night! I thought I found ‘it’ when I watched ‘Cedars’ videos, then found he was an apostate – I was literally staggered!
        Jehovah stepped in then & sent someone from here to post the comment “try e-watchman(dot)com” on one of my questions I left on Cedars site. To this day I don’t know who it was because I was so excited, I almost screamed, but I know I came straight here & dived in – the first person to welcome me was Beverly (who is MIA this week!!!!!) & I will always love her for that.
        I went straight back to Youtube after falling to my knees & crying thank you to Jehovah & deleted my comment there & have been here ever since.

        Sooo, a HUGE thank you to whoever guided me, Jehovah certainly blessed us both that night – I do wish you would own up to guiding me, but if you want to be modest you can just take this **hug** & I owe you another in the new world, I love you so much for guiding me 🙂

        Lisa, be happy with us – we already love you & if you want to leave hints about how we can find you on FB then we will accept you as a friend there too…a big morning kiss for you, my dearest sister.

        • Awesome post!
          Remember to return the favor by dropping ewatchman in the comments section of some of those disgruntled videos. Lots of people searching for answers.

          • Kevin b

            Modesty! Good job.

          • Volcanic

            Did you take your hug?

        • Joel

          Hi Sister Volcanic. This is Joel.

          I just posted an idea to Brother King (read above) about the real possibility of all of us on this site getting together in some sort of E-Watchman Convention, or GATHERING of some sort; to meet and encourage one another face-to-face.

          Could you read what I wrote to him and give me your opinion on the matter? Thanks Sis.

        • Burt Reynolds

          You are such a faithful and sensitive sister volcanic. May your lava reach us all.

        • Kevin b

          We are all soooo glad you found us here! You are a true blessing to the group. I too love your lava.

    • Song of Hannah

      Welcome Lisa! So happy Jehovah has brought another beautiful heart our way! I’m terribly curious though, how exactly did you poof! find us?

      • Lisa

        It is a very long story which lead me up to the moment I found The Watchman’s Post. For all the years I was “under the spell” and a good obedient daughter, I always felt that something was not right but just could not seem to pinpoint what the problem was. Being a good witness, I was told that I just need to trust in Jehovah. I agree, but all the hypocrisy I witnessed, the double standards, the actual covering up of serious things that took place was confusing to me and seemed wrong, not just locally but it was happening all around. I had a cousin who was very close to me. He was in the very upper levels of the organization, he was a district overseer. He went to Gilead school with one of the governing body members and was very often in meetings and close company with them. He was the district overseer for Bethel at one time. He was a missionary in Africa and was a very well known, loved overseer. He taught pioneer school at Bethel and was a traveling overseer for many years.He would always take time to come visit me on his yearly trip to his (and my) hometown. During these visits, we would discuss many things about the organization. He would tell me things, things that made me question? I tried to just put it in Jehovah’s hands but I could not stop thinking about the things he said to me. I had first hand knowledge of a local JW pedophile, who was a ministerial servant, had a book study at his home and molested children for over 40 years…. undetected. Some even in the parking lot of the Hall. Then I saw the NBC Dateline show about the witnesses, I called him and asked him what was going on and he said ” it’s true, it’s all true and if the society does not get their ducks in a row …. this will be a disaster.
        So I decided some years later … like I said after my mother’s passing I was depressed, sad, confused and fed up so I decided to pray….. I got on line to search JW and child abuse. when I typed in “Jehovah’s Witnesses” Robert’s site came up as one of the search’s I was never afraid to search the internet since I had given up on meetings and the absence of love and concern by the congregation. I decided to click on it and was stunned, amazed and relieved to find something that made total sense. None of the apostate sites that slam Jehovah… but what I call “the real spiritual food” It has been a long time coming for me , but now I feel I have found what I was always looking for….Truth! I have tried my best to help the few witness friends I had, but at the first sign of discontent….. I was labeled an apostate! It has not stopped me and I have helped a good friend to Robert’s site and he is so happy. There is so much more to this story, sorry for being so long winded. The sad news is, My close cousin, the beloved overseer passed away 2 years ago before I could help him to Robert’s site. thanks to all of my new brothers and sisters for welcoming me! it’s a strange feeling for me to actually feel accepted after so many years of being hated shunned and lied about. I will pray that Jehovah blesses you all ! Thanks again SO MUCH !

        • Bklyn Kevin

          Welcome Lisa nice to have you with us.

          A Smoldering Wick He Will not Snuff Out.
          Excerpt:
          No crushed reed will he break, and no smoldering wick will he extinguish.—Isa. 42:3
          Many of Jehovah’s Witnesses today are toiling and burdened down. They do not find the weekly congregation meetings refreshing any more. Some become brokenhearted when they discover the extent of Bethel’s hypocritical dealings, such as their secret 10 year partnership with the United Nations or the atrocious way in which victims of JW child abuse are dealt with. Some of Jehovah’s Witnesses are like smoldering wicks —their faith dimmed and about to flicker out. And the burgeoning numbers of ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses testifies to the fact that many are abandoning the organization altogether —convinced that Jehovah could never have anything to do with it.

          Instead of addressing the issues and humbly apologizing for the pain, confusion and stumbling that have effected so many, for which the leadership of the organization itself is responsible for inflicting upon the flock under their charge, the Watchtower has doubled-down, as the expression goes, guilting Jehovah’s Witnesses for not being loyal to Jehovah —as if they were guilt free, as if loyalty to Jehovah solely means pledging loyalty to the organization.

          Jehovah, of course, is undoubtedly aware of what is going on. He has kept silent, though. In fact, the very chapter of Isaiah that speaks of the Messiah not extinguishing the smoldering wick quotes God as saying: “I have kept quiet for a long time. I remained silent and restrained myself. Like a woman giving birth, I will groan, pant, and gasp all at once.”.

          Read more> https://e-watchman.com/smoldering-wick-will-not-snuff/

          • Joel

            Hey BK. Joel here.

            I just posted an idea to Brother King (see above) about the possibility of all of us on this site getting together in a sort of E-Watchman Convention or GATHERING. . .to meet and encourage one another. Please read what I wrote him and give me your thoughts. Please.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Is it not wonderful, and indeed a wonder in itself, that Jehovah sees the smouldering wick and acknowledges even potential before it is yet born. What a comfort.

        • Joe Dman

          Amazing. I wonder how many others there are like you who come here often that are hesitant to comment. Not saying they should. Everyone’s situation is different, but it is definitely encouraging to hear from new ones.
          Then there’s ones like me who dropped in for a while then kinda drop back and watch ( commenting “when the spirit moves me”). I get so encouraged when i read experiences like yours and how you expressed that immediately you could see the truth when you said: “I decided to click on it and was stunned, amazed and relieved to find something that made total sense.”
          I was just thinking today how heavy of a yoke they put on Witnesses. And once we learn of these truths, Jesus words immediately have fulfillment. Math 11:30 “For my yoke is kindly and my load is light”
          Thank you for sharing your story with us and joining in on meeting together and encouraging one another. Something the regular Joe don’t get at the meetings anymore.

          • Burt Reynolds

            Joe, quit holding back and stay connected. I miss you when your not here and there is such an air of honesty and faith in you and your family that should be shared.

            • Volcanic

              Agreed! Joe, we need you here, quit holding back…..pleeeeeease

        • Lisa, you should copy and paste this to Robert’s guest book. It will help out so so many lost sheep searching for answers. Typically a searcher will check out the guest book before proceeding to make sure that it’s not a hateful site. Once again, nice to have you here with us!❤?

        • Joel

          What a fine testimonial! Truly inspirational.

          . . . do I smell an “E-Watchman” Convention on the horizon . . . ummm . . .

        • Burt Reynolds

          A beautiful awakening. What a wonderful story. I found the immediacy of spiritual truth too on this site. A brother, Eric, spoke the first truth to me that I had heard for over twenty five years and it was like being touched by the very hand of God. I shall never forget it. So too is it for you. The sheep know the call of the master and come out to him. How I wish this site was here forty years ago. However, good things come to those who rely on Jehovah. It was the love of creation that kept me sustained during my sojourn in the wilderness of lies and deceit. Jehovah is still to be found in so many ways, if you but look for him. Welcome sister.

        • Bobby 6343

          Welcome Lisa!

          Hope you will finish your story in more details. Thanks for sharing.

          • Lisa

            Thank you Bobby, I would love to continue my story in detail sometime. It’s very long, but I would love to share it if it would help another person find a wonderful spiritual family like all of you.

            • Joel

              This is why an E-Watchman Convention would be so great . . . just to hear all these heartwarming and faith-strengthening stories, testimonials! We all would be so encouraged!

            • It would be a international one for sure, because we have brothers and sisters from around the world on this site !!

            • Joel

              The more international, the better!
              . . . is that really good grammer? Lol!

      • J.M.J.

        Hello Song of Hannah .
        I do not comment a lot other than to encourage one another .
        You said a couple of weeks ago that you too are having difficult times ,and I wanted to see how you are ,and to say that I am thinking about you .
        Much love . J.M.J.

        • Song of Hannah

          Thanks JMJ! Life’s problems haven’t let up, but I’m still hanging in there! ?

          How are you fairing?

          • J.M.J.

            I am hanging in there . I have a cold at the moment so that together with having a vehicle crash about 6 weeks ago I am still aching . On the spiritual side I am holding on .I walk around a lot of the time just praying as I do bits .Take care and lots of love . J.M.J.

          • J.M.J.

            Do you have a e mail address .Mine is john_boy_johno@hotmaill.com If you want to e mail me it is also fine .

          • J.M.J.

            Hello song of Hannah . I sent my e . mail address to you . Peremeno said that if two people are going through hard times then they can encourage each other as they have empathy .I sent my e mail address for this reason . Take care . J.M.L.

    • #savekevin

      Hi Lisa. Yes welcome to the asylum where we aren’t the loonies.
      Asylum: a place of refuge and comfort and security | a place that provides privacy and protection from danger | a shelter for refugees | refuge afforded to a person whose extradition is sought |
      any secure retreat.

      Psalm 9:9 Jehovah will become a secure refuge for the oppressed. A secure refuge in time of distress.

    • Teleologist

      Hi Lisa, you said:
      “The few superficial witness friends I have had decided to stop all contact after this years convention about shunning inactive ones. I look forward to learning and searching for the real truth with all of you!”

      I know apostates are to be shunned but I was not aware that inactive ones are to be shunned. Are you sure about this?

      • Lisa

        Hi, I listened (on-line) to the entire summer assembly. There was a talk given regarding the “loyalty theme” and how inactive ones in the congregation should be treated, not to be associated with. (That’s my sentence, Not a quote) I was aware of this prior to the convention for my area, so I called up a JW friend who at one time was very close to me. Actually I had spent many long hours with her trying to help her. She has a very long sad story. I told her about the things I was learning on Robert’s site, Printed off bulletins ,listened to the podcasts, watched the videos ,listened to the audio version of Roberts book, Prayed with her and cried with her. she was so angry when we learned of the United Nations scandal, the Hedge funds, the child abuse. She let her fear overtake her and afraid of what the “organization” and the elders could do to her, she stopped asking questions and stopped talking to me only on a few neutral occasions….. Back to the shun inactive ones…… I called her prior to her assembly and said to her.” Your assembly is coming up soon and I wanted to tell you that you will hear a talk on how to treat inactive ones. You will be told to have very little interaction with them….. so I called to say….It’s been nice knowing you, because when you get back from the assembly, and you are required to follow the GB rules, you will not be able to speak to me or be my friend anymore.” She scoffed at the idea at first and said to me ” we will see, I don’t really think that’s true” Her assembly was in June and I have not heard from her again. That’s sad, she had told me at various times that “I have to follow the rules you know!”

        • Joe Dman

          Those bastards. I guess that’s why my long time elder friend hasn’t talked to me at the last few meetings and the hand shaking seems to have slowed down with everyone. My wife suggests that we just quit going. It’s tempting.

          • Joel

            . . . give it some serious thought first Joe. Leaving the Organization has serious consequences for all involved; consequences that are both good and bad, negative and positive.

            . . .Just something to think about. . .

            • Joe Dman

              Thanks for the concern Joel but even if they told me they didn’t want inactive ones going, I’d go partly out of spite but mostly in case Jehovah will use me for something that would require me to be there. I do enough informal witnessing that I could count and if I really wanted to impress them, I could start posting on here a lot and count it too since there are some reading and learning who aren’t baptised. And I’m a slooow typer. Its just participating in the school that I for some reason can’t sign up for. But I ask Jehovah that if I really should, to put it into my heart.

            • Joel

              Very good Joe. You have indeed thought it through. I hear you my brother.

            • Kevin b

              That’s what I do. I’m now an active publisher. I turn in time like a good little JW. I do not go door to door nor will I. I didn’t want them to be able to shun me. You have to work the system.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I’m in a similar situation with you Joe. I just stay close to Jehovah . I’m not sure about meetings though I can relate well to Roberts points on attendance. I love my brothers and sisters that are still bound by blindness, I witness where I can but I never feel it’s enough, but sometimes in the maelstrom of human weakness, when I don’t know what to do, I just try to talk with Jehovah and to feel attached to his righteousness. Sometimes it’s all I can do, such is the conflict of right and frailty. Bit like a lifeboat I suppose. I really love your sincerity in dealing with a complex situation and the love you have for righteousness. Heartwarming.

            • Joel

              Hey Burt. What do you think about all of us on this site getting together in a sort of E-Watchman Convention, or GATHERING, or dinner, or something. Think of the fine association and face-to-face mutual encouragement. Tell me what you think.

            • Burt Reynolds

              I haven’t got the dosh to travel to a convention in another country. I’m retired. I am content just to be holding onto the skirt of the holy ones. I would love to meet with you all personally but I don’t think it will happen this side of the tribulation, but I look forward to it very much. It will be like meeting long lost family.

            • Joel

              Agreed. Heartfelt. Thank you Burt.

          • They certainly are doubling down on people who they think are questionable. I for one can’t take the BS. So I’ll just wait for the new Zone 4 Area 27 underground tribulation congregation, coming to a town near you soon!!!

            • Joel

              Good point Joe. The new information at this year’s Regionals about not even associating with an inactive one, that just seems to me to be going too far.

              Is there ANY honourable way to leave the Organization?

            • Remember that saying WWJD ? What would Jesus do. That’s what the GB seemed to have lost.

            • Kevin b

              Not to mention no more clean shaven brothers taking the lead. No razors anymore. Everyone now has a beard.

          • Lisa

            Hi Joe, I’m sorry your elder friend has stopped talking to you, It seems on one hand they have to warn the flock about the dangers of the inactive, yet they go to great lengths to invite the weak and inactive back with the “return to Jehovah brochure”
            The premise of the invitation is very disturbing , one wants to believe they are honest, yet at the same time it feels like you are being “tested or “sorted” and if you don’t conform, then you are marked. I was always taught that the strong would help the weak. But some years ago I was corrected by a long time pioneer sister who told me….. The strong only associate with the strong, if the strong associate with the weak then, the strong will get weaker. So my response was “so the strong are actually afraid of the weak? How strong does that really make them?” I got no response.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Hello again Lisa. Food for thought.

              Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” (7b-10) Read more>
              https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/2-corinthians/12/#v47012009

              2 Corinthians 12:
              8 Three times I begged the Lord about this, that it would depart from me.
              9 But he said to me: “My undeserved kindness is sufficient for you, for my power is being made perfect in weakness.” Most gladly, then, I will boast about my weaknesses, in order that the power of the Christ may remain over me like a tent.
              10 So I take pleasure in weaknesses, in insults, in times of need, in persecutions and difficulties, for Christ. For when I am weak, then I am powerful.

            • Lisa

              Thank you Kevin…. Wonderful !

        • This is mind blowing, almost cult like!

          • Joel

            I once used that expression “cult-like” in talking to my fleshly Brother, who is not a Witness. He made a very simple—yet profound—observation which I have never forgotten . . . he simply said, ” there is no such thing as “cult-like.” He said, if something is ‘cult-like’ then IT IS A CULT!”

            Wow! I never forgot that. Even as I did not apply his reasoning to the Watchtower Society, I think back many times to that statement and say. . .ummm.

            • Kevin b

              That’s a good point Joel. If it looks like cult, sounds like a cult, treats you like a cult member, I guess that means it is a CULT!

            • Joel

              Hey Kevin.

              I just posted a thought to Brother King (please read above) about the possibility of all of us getting together in some sort of E-Watchman Convention or GATHERING; to meet and encourage one another face-to-face. Tell me your thoughts on this, please.

            • Kevin b

              I think logistically it would be impossible. Roberts main goal is to worn of the upcoming prophecies to take place, not to get involved with get togethers. Your idea is commendable but not practical. I think if you want to arrange a one on one with those close by, you could. Me and poster boyJehonadabjoseph whoever he is, both live within 30 miles of each other and have had the opportunity to have a meal together.

            • Joel

              I hear you.

              I live in Chicago. What about a kind of “Regional” get together? I could drive or fly anywhere in the Country, and assist those financial ly who may need it.

            • Joel

              . . . even an E-Watchman Dinner! What about that?

            • Burt Reynolds

              Mmmmmm cult flavour as Homer Simpson would say. But it’s not a cult. It’s Jehovahs arrangement for the time being. Strange but true,

            • Joel

              Yes, but not everything the GB teaches is APPROVED by Jehovah.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Well if it was we wouldn’t be here would we!

            • I wonder how many people would pack up and move to Jonestown, Guyana if the GB told them to because the end was near? And they needed to be in a safe place, and would they drink the Kool-Aid as the inactive ones closed in on them?

            • Joel

              Hey Joe, what do you feel about us getting together in a sort of E-Watchman Convention, or GATHERING of some sort? Why? For face-to-face encouragement. Tell me what you think, please.

            • I think it would be awesome! My wife wants to run the Chicago marathon one of these days. So I will definitely be looking you up!

            • Burt Reynolds

              Sounds like everyone is going to be turning up in Chicago carrying violin cases for a conference at Luigis Ristorante. He maka da great Pizza lika mama she used to make. Giva my love to a mr Capone.

            • Joel

              Ha ha! Very good Burt! See, this is why we should all get together—at least once! The laughter and spiritual good conversation and fun would be crazy great!

            • Bklyn Kevin

              “POW”….. The majority for sure.

            • Kevin b

              Oh, more than you think. Once watchtower found a way to get you to donate all your money to them, here comes the kool-aid. Drink up friends the end is near.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Are Jehovah’s Witnesses part of a cult?. Read more>

              https://e-watchman.com/are-jehovahs-witnesses-part-of-a-cult/

              The apostle made it clear that those who insist on teaching their own doctrine have no place in the congregation. Also, in his letter to Titus Paul spoke about the men of Crete who spoke of things they ought not, and the apostle said that it was necessary to shut the mouths of these men because they were overturning entire households. And in his same letter to Titus Paul commanded Christians to turn down foolish questionings and to reject anyone who promotes a sect, writing: “But shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, he being self-condemned.” Again, according to the criteria, the first century congregation, after which Jehovah’s Witnesses have patterned themselves, was a cult.

              3) Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

              None of these characteristics of a cult are evident among Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Watchtower, in fact, has warned Jehovah’s Witnesses of the potential dangers of transcendental meditation and hypnotism. There is no chanting, tongue speaking, or “denunciation sessions” at meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses. “Debilitating work routines”? Except for those considered full-time ministers the average Jehovah’s Witness spends a couple hours a week knocking on doors or some other facet of preaching work – hardly debilitating.

            • Kevin b

              This is a quote from an April 7, 2016 article Robert posted entitled,

              Jehovah’s Witnesses – What is the truth?

              “But now, what about all the controversy? Is the Watchtower a cult? Does it fit the biblical criteria of a false prophet? And what about all the press reports in recent years regarding child molestation among Jehovah’s Witnesses? What is the truth?

              The answer to all of the above is a qualified yes.”

              I could be reading it wrong, so please let me know your thoughts.

              I don’t know how to add a link to the article like you do so I hope you can find it and get back to me.

            • Joel

              I just referenced that same article to bklyn Kevin. But in truth, though the Watchtower Society has some “cult-like” trappings, almost resembling “brain-washing,” and unswerving devotion to its leaders—the Governing Body, they ARE NOT A CULT in the traditional sense.

            • Kevin b

              Does that make them half a cult? A fraction of a cult? Not a cult at all? Once Satan got his grip on watchtower, it can not be a holy institution. I’m done with Watchtower control, I chose to use my brain and think for myself. Whether it’s a cult or not doesn’t really matter to me at all, it’s just a label. Just like people saying Robert is an apostate, or people who post on here are apostates, there just labels. It doesn’t matter. Jehovah will make it right, he will make it clear to individuals who have the right heart condition.

            • Joel

              I hear you Kevin . . .

            • Bklyn Kevin

              To some degree you’re right, but until Jesus comes in his authentic parousia and says different we are obligated to respect Jehovah’s temple’ like the apostle did in their day and do as they say but not as they do

              Matthew 23:
              3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their “deeds”, for they say but they do not “practice what they say”

            • Joel

              That’s it in a nutshell, as they say. Very good BK.

            • Kevin b

              Great scripture, but you and I both know the JW leadership, and the elders would never admit this scripture applies to them. I go to the temple as often as I can. It’s hard to sit there and hear 1914 pounded at you time and again. I generally end up reading a downloaded ewatchman article to get me through it. Thanks.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Jehovah’s Witnesses – What is the truth?. Read more>https://e-watchman.com/watchman-jehovahs-witnesses/
              Excerp:
              They are a cult! No, they are God’s earthly organization! They are false prophets and antichrists! No, Jehovah’s Witnesses are Kingdom proclaimers —the true religion. They protect child molesters! No, “we abhor child abuse.”

              These are just a sampling of the accusations against and claims made by the Watchtower. One thing is certain: The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and Jehovah’s Witnesses are one of the most controversial religious organizations in the world. But what is “the truth?”

              It is Saturday morning. The door bell rings. At your door are two well-dressed people who politely greet you and introduce themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses. They begin speaking about a world to come of peace and infinite happiness. And you are invited to learn how you can live forever in paradise on earth.

              Most people seem to resent the intrusion. They are not interested in living in a new world. It sounds crazy to them —too good to be true. Besides, most people like this world fine.

              But for a special few that knock on the door was literally an answer to their prayer and the best thing that ever happened to them. They accept an offer of a free home Bible study. Over weeks and months they learn the basic teachings of the Bible —the truth. They learn that God has a name and a Kingdom —a government, that is going to be run by none other than Jesus Christ. What an awesome thing, to know that the Kingdom of the Heavens will eventually crush all the kingdoms and governments of this world.

              They accept the invitation to attend meetings at the local kingdom hall. They are warmly greeted and feel at home and begin to make fast friends with various congregants. Eventually they become Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves and go out to preach the message and teach others the truth, just as Jesus commanded his disciples to do.

              But now, what about all the controversy? Is the Watchtower a cult? Does it fit the biblical criteria of a false prophet? And what about all the press reports in recent years regarding child molestation among Jehovah’s Witnesses? What is the truth?

              The answer to all of the above is a qualified yes.

              More importantly, though, the real question is: Do these evils preclude the Watchtower from currently functioning in the capacity of Jehovah’s earthly organization, as advertised? Expressed differently —does the presence of stumbling blocks necessarily nullify the work and faith of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

              “And the answer to both is no.”

              From the standpoint of most of Jehovah’s Witnesses the Watchtower is a benevolent influence that helps people be upright and live more purposeful lives. However, many, including a growing number of ex-JW’s, view it as a harmful institution. Just to put things in perspective, though, when examined in the same light first century Christians fit the criteria of a cult too.

              (Article: Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a Cult?).

              Are Jehovah’s Witnesses part of a cult?. Read more>
              https://e-watchman.com/are-jeh

              The apostle made it clear that those who insist on teaching their own doctrine have no place in the congregation. Also, in his letter to Titus Paul spoke about the men of Crete who spoke of things they ought not, and the apostle said that it was necessary to shut the mouths of these men because they were overturning entire households. And in his same letter to Titus Paul commanded Christians to turn down foolish questionings and to reject anyone who promotes a sect, writing: “But shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, he being self-condemned.” Again, according to the criteria, the first century congregation, after which Jehovah’s Witnesses have patterned themselves, was a cult.

              3) Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

              None of these characteristics of a cult are evident among Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Watchtower, in fact, has warned Jehovah’s Witnesses of the potential dangers of transcendental meditation and hypnotism. There is no chanting, tongue speaking, or “denunciation sessions” at meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses. “Debilitating work routines”? Except for those considered full-time ministers the average Jehovah’s Witness spends a couple hours a week knocking on doors or some other facet of preaching work – hardly debilitating.

            • Joel

              Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a Cult?

              The answer is a deafening NO!!!

              . . . but . . .read this great article by Brother King …

              https://e-watchman.com/watchman-jehovahs-witnesses-what-is-the-truth

              I found it to be spot on

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Yes I agree with your thinking on the matter Joel. However just to let you know the link that you provided is not working,

            • Joel

              Sorry BK. I fixed it now. Check it out!

            • ELiJAHxSEVEN

              Yet, something in my stomach churns when I hear the word “cult” in reference to the watchtower that I had once trusted….the “truth” hurts they say, no pun intended

            • Joel

              Does it churn out of disgust that people keep labeling the Society as such . . . or does it churn because deep down you think it just might be true?

            • ELiJAHxSEVEN

              I have to say both would be the cause of the churning…..Jesus wept when he saw the temple, the place where Jehovah’s name resided…that is the main reason my stomach churns in disgust..the watchtower has done so much good and in turn so much bad…Its hard to swallow that fact and not develop irritable bowel syndrome!

            • ELiJAHxSEVEN

              Satan’s influence cannot be dismissed as we recognize that he has amassed a “cult” following…..

            • Joel

              The “cult” following are the millions of miguided JWs around the world?

            • ELiJAHxSEVEN

              No, the brothers and sisters follow Jehovah but have been misdirected sheep….satan is responsible in doing this via his man of lawlessness….I just implied the fact that satan has a world fool of groupies…his demonic rock star status is influential to the masses of humanity…those who enjoy his “cult” of personality, either directly or unwittingly..

            • ELiJAHxSEVEN

              Its like the Brother and Sisters are in a coma and we need to be there when they wake up…

            • Joel

              So true ElihahxSeven. Let’s hope we CAN wake at least a few of them up before this old system of things come crashing down on them . . . and the MAN OF LAWLESSNESS will be able to do NOTHING to stop it!

            • ELiJAHxSEVEN

              So good to have the fellowship of a loving brother, thank you Joel

            • Joel

              I feel the same way about you bro! Thank you ElihahxSeven

            • ELiJAHxSEVEN

              By the way, Im in Ohio….a hop skip and a jump to CHI-TOWN…lol…I pray we all meet someday, and Jehovah willing, we will!

            • Joel

              I look forward to it. Let’s make it happen!

            • ROLEE ALLEN

              Hey, your excitement about having a gathering prompted me to drop the alias…eh, I have nothing to hide anyways….I never liked playing “guess who”…I’d rather be myself, come what may

            • ROLEE ALLEN

              Hey, your excitement for meeting everyone prompted me to get rid of the alias..lol…I mean,we get to see your face, why not make it more personal..Please excuse the ugly mug but my dog is a good looking guy lol…I figure, satan already knows who we are and as they say “I ain’t scared” of his minions either..so, it is what it is…

            • Kevin b

              Nothing wrong with an alias, just ask B donkey. Can i ask where you are from?

            • Joel

              Read my comment below. Tell me what you think.

            • Kevin b

              Everyone has to do what’s best for them. For me it’s not putting up a picture and my full name/real name. Some have done so and it didn’t go well. My opinion is that if you are an active witness going to the meetings you shouldn’t have your real name full name all over this website. Which when googled will show up on all websites that it’s on. You’re just giving the elders a reason to watch every step you take. If you get DFed for apostasy what good will you be to others when the time is right. For me I’m going incognito for now brother.

            • Joel

              I certainly respect your view.

              In my case, it doesn’t matter to me anymore. Even as I currently enjoy a good standing in my Congregation, I still use my real first name on this site— as well as a glaring picture of mug (face)! Lol! If I haven’t been found out yet . . . then l don’t mind.

            • ROLEE ALLEN

              No fear of men!

            • Joel

              I wish I could say that is what it is—no fear of men. But in truth Rolee, it is simply that I respect Jehovah’s more excellent way of love.

              . . . and the fact that I know that what Brother King teaches is indeed ‘the truth about the truth.’

            • ROLEE ALLEN

              “The heart of it all” Ohio, born and raised…

            • Joel

              Yes!
              Well. Hello there Rolee! Good for you! I hope this starts a revolution in all of us revealing our faces to one another! Why not? We all say we are Brothers and sisters joined into one E-Watchman family, right? So let’s show our faces to one another!

              I, for, one, am not afraid any longer of whether a “secret” JW Police is scouring around the web looking for JWs who can then be brought up on charges in a bogus judicial committee! No!

              I say I Am FREE IN CHRIST!!! What can man do to me!?

              I belong to Jehovah; and to Him I Live . . . and to Him I die!

              So good for you Rolee!

            • ROLEE ALLEN

              Exactly! Can’t wait til the man of lawlessness gets revealed!

            • Just keep swimming!

              Hi Joel! Just curious how things are going for you in your physical congregation…have any elders requested a visit? Say, to discuss Matthew 25:40?? Well, I truly do admire your zeal, courage, and declaration of freedom. Perhaps you remember my face….but as Kevin pointed out, aliases can be good….I REALLY really don’t like using one, but I gave my word to my elders that I wouldn’t use my name on here and I wouldn’t publicly “like” e-watchman posts on Facebook. For now, I figure it’s something I can live with. As I type this I can’t help but laugh and feel depressed at the same time…..it’s so SILLY…. Jehovah sees us all on here…and I can truly say from my bones and kidneys that I don’t feel ashamed before God that I’m associating here and agreeing with my brothers and sisters HERE. Just pm me and we’ll set up a meal or something…we live close to you.

            • Joel

              Sounds good JKS!

            • Joel

              I hear you ElihahxSeven. Irritable bowel syndrome . . . that is classic funny! Lol!

          • Burt Reynolds

            I’m thinking of changing my name to Shunodab, courtesy of bethelshun influencing my sister.

            • Hahaha hahaha, funny and sad at the same time ??

        • Song of Hannah

          Lisa do you remember which day and session (morning or afternoon) of the assembly this talk was given? Wanna try to find out the exact wording they used… Got folks I wanna share it with. Thanks.

          • Joel

            Hi Hannah. This is Joel.

            The Convention talk that Lisa is referring is on the Friday afternoon session, 3:30 PM, entitled:

            “Loyalty to Jehovah’s Judgements.”

            It is a symposium where the Governing Body equates the apostle Paul’s caution at 1 Cor. 5:11-13, where he says to “stop keeping company with anyone called a Brother who is sexuallty immoral. . .” etc.

            The point the talk makes is that an “inactive” Brother—though INACTIVE—is still A BROTHER! So if an inactive person is known to be practicing some sort of sin—though having not been to a congregation meeting in months or even years—they are to be treated as if disfellowshipped, and CUT OFF from association.

            Yes, I was at the Convention in late July in DeKalb Illinois (50 miles west of Chicago), and that is EXACTLY what the speaker said.

            • Lisa

              Yes, thank you Joel for clearing that up! It made me feel sad to listen to that because there are many who are discouraged and confused about what is happening and it felt like they are encouraging the brothers and sisters to be very suspicious of each other.

            • Joel

              It’s crazy isn’t it Lisa? That ‘suspicion’ you referenced has been a staple of the JWs for years! That “I’m gonna tell the elders on you” mentality is palpable in my Congregation even today! Now, with this so-called “new” adjustment, inactive ones cannot escape the all-knowing and all-powerful tentacles of the Governing Body. How sad.

            • Kevin b

              Interestingly Watchtower likes to speak from both sides of their mouth. This is a screen shot of an article on their website. I says former members are not shunned because of inactivity.

            • Kevin b

              I’m not sure if Watchtower knows where they stand on issues. Flip flop after flip flop. I guess they could tune into the watchmans post to find out, it’s easier than finding it on JW.org.

            • Joel

              You know that will change real soon!

              Wait. . . maybe not . . .

              The Organization wants to present a certain image to the public, non-JWs. They don’t want to appear to extreme, to radical.

              So on second thought, that might not ever change!

            • Song of Hannah

              Oh, I see. It seems it may have been stated somewhat ambiguously? Because it seems most have gotten the impression that ALL inactive ones should be shunned, not just those actively and openly engaged in wrongdoing.

            • Joel

              It was a bit ambiguous, right? But the Brother clearly kept repeating the phrase “those KNOWINGLY engaged in sin.” Which meant that if you have an inactive relative or a friend that YOU PERSONALLY KNOW is practicing a JW rejected sin, then they must be avoided; yes, “shunned.”

              However, the implication—without coming right out and saying it—is that, in truth, one should avoid inactive ones ALTOGETHER, because you do not know if they are harboring a secret sin.

            • Burt Reynolds

              But Joel, we are all secret sinners, in or out of the watchtower! We are not termed a sinner in the world until our sin becomes known. We would only be sinners in Jehovah’s eye. The watchtower would not know. Under this rationale all inactive ones should be shunned because we all sin. The watchtower really do not think these things through. They need a good grammatical dictionary, let alone an accurate bible. I think I will write to my sister and tell her is not sinning. Then she can shun me properly for lying. It’s a real catch 22 from the watchtower. Be inactive, tell the truth (about being a sinner) and be shunned for sinning when if you had said nothing, you would still be welcome in the congregation. Now, THAT is ambiguity.

            • Joel

              So true Burt, it is a catch 22 — you’re damned if you do. You’re damned if you don’t!

              There simply is No noble or honourable way to leave the Organization!

            • Burt Reynolds

              That can’t be right Hannah. That would make Robert a sinner and me in good standing! But then Robert has not done anything contrary to the bible in his work, but the watchtower has and thus is hypocritical in its actions in disfellowshipping Robert and it’s not justified in doing so. But then the watchtower is Jehovah’s organisation yet is transgressing the law of Jehovah, and shunning under the watchtower authority is not scriptural unless the person is a brother who is sinning. But the watchtower itself is sinning. Which makes me wonder if it’s safer to be a sinner in the organisation by preaching the truth which will get me disfellowshipped, or just fade away and preach the truth which will still be wrong as far as Jehovah’s organisation is concerned but not according to the admonition in the scriptures. Maybe I should actively be inactive by attending and drifting. I’m just going to take a few more pills… It’s been a loooong Sunday.

            • Volcanic

              is this the talk, Joel? I can’t listen to it just now because baby is sleeping.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOpSZmcL3j4

            • Joel

              Yes, it is one of them.

            • Song of Hannah

              Thanks Joel!

        • Just keep swimming!

          Tell your “friend” to look up SHUN in the concordance. If I’m not mistaken, the word SHUN is used 3 times in regards to wrongdoing or things that Jehovah hates. I’m just typing from memory…..I’ll go look it up too.

    • J.M.J.

      Hello Lisa . My story is very similar to yours . I left school in 1975 . having been told not to bother with any qualifications .To just get any job as the end is coming .I am 1 of 7 . 2 were not affected as they were married and gone . The rest have struggled on .I made several attempts to get back into the truth and was again put off by the very ones who had given the advice to my parents about 1975 . Long story short I am trying all I can to get back into JEHOVAH S favour . Going through some really rough times ,but I am determined to see this through . Do not give up .I see the witnesses and always stop for a talk and always encourage them as I believe as I am going through this terrible time now ,so they will be soon .

      • Ed(the other Ed)

        get back in Jehovah’s favor…. what makes you think our not in his favor right now?

        • J.M.J.

          I believe that at the moment I am allowed to be tested and I am being tested .I do however believe that soon this will come to its end and I will receive blessings for not giving up .So I believe that JEHOVAH is allowing this to happen that he is also hurting as he does when anyone trying to do what is right and is tried and tested are feeling downtrodden .

          • Ed(the other Ed)

            Well to me it sounds like your definitely not in his disfavor, I’m happy for ones who find this site and sigh with relief, thanks for sharing

            • J.M.J.

              I have been on this site for a few years .Every time I chose a name ,someone else appeared to have it .I now go by my initials .As I have said I am going through a really rough time and have been for a few months ,but as I read it is easy to have faith when everything is going well .I am not ready to quit and the worse things get the more I pray

            • Joel

              Hey JMJ. This is Joel.

              I just posted a thought to Brother King (please read above) about possibly all of us on this site getting together in a sort of E-Watchman Convention, or GATHERING; to meet and encourage one another face-to-face.

              I’d like to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks.

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              I’m always reluctant to respond to seemingly nubies just for that fact, who were you back then if you don’t mind me askin? I hope the rough time your going through will pan out, if anything keep your eye on the prize, the future!

            • J.M.J.

              Hello Ed .I used to go by John ,but there came along another John and I believe some remarks were made that I would never of made . (I firmly believe that If we cannot help and encourage one another ,then do not tear down what a person has ) Then I posted as Joe ,but then there was another Joe so I started using my initials and hope that no one has these . I have been in contact with Robert via e mail for a long time and have seen the site go through two of three shut downs to go over to different formats (I think that what was what happened ) and Robert coming over to England for a while as well as when he made a home move to where he is now . Many names who used to be on here are gone ,and although I never posted a lot I miss reading their comments .
              .A good comment can give a lot of encouragement . I have my eyes firmly set on the prize ,but more so want to live a good life because right is right without any prize ..

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Hi John, I was around back then too, a lot of weird stuff flinging back and forth. Robert had just come on the scene and he hadn’t established his foot so to speak firmly just yet. I was roped in with the big purge that took place too, I didn’t let it stumble me since I was in search mode like a lot of others. Then the paradise café started and it seemed to go straight to Pluto in some ways, a direction that raised red flags all over the place in my opinion. I’ve been trained at an early age to trust nobody but I like Roberts input, he’s not a very good liar if you know what I mean, not that stumbling blocks can’t be present here, but his thinking makes the most sense to me. I like what you said about not “tearing down what a person has” and your last paragraph, thanks John

            • J.M.J.

              Hello Ed .
              The reason I changed to J.M.J. was because of that time .There were bad comments made in one name I used ,so I changed it .Then bad comments were used in the other .I was dis heartened by that time period and some of the comments made . (A lot of them directed at Robert King claiming to know him from his congregation) and stopped posting .I do not like debates ,but would rather send encouragement even though going through difficult times .Sometimes someone will post a comment and a little snippet will ring true . An example was a little part of a comment by dead alien when he said some of us have our time of tribulation early .I realised I was not the only one going through this .Small remark ,big lift .
              thanks again .J.M.J.

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Yeah, I remember that, and I’m not the sharpest tack in the box, there were a lot of former elders and co’s debating him who had a lot of knowledge, it was weird for sure. Tribulation early?….I’m with you there brother, it’s funny how one by one were all going through this all over the world, one person at a time. Mega lift for sure

            • J.M.J.

              I often wonder if we who have our eyes open as to the operation of error are experiencing hard times now and mine came and still come with everything that I am fearful of .I think it might be so we are able to help (and have apathy ) with the rest when the operation of error really is exposed . I had an elder say during the 90s “out of work , well you’ve had long enough to know what is happening ”
              Just before he was caught with another member of the congregations wife . I still talk to him as I believe what we go through is so we can care as we have been through it .

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              I can’t say I’m experiencing hard times at the moment, but I’ve been conditioned from my past for sure to be ready for that time period, I commend you on your humbleness to still talk to him, I’m sure he appreciates that, I highly doubt anyone else takes that step that you did.

            • J.M.J.

              I always say that being in the truth is 24/7 ,not a set of clothes that can be put on and taken off .As such I always believe that I should be humble and all praise should go to JEHOVAH as it is reflecting his characteristics .(fruits of the spirit)

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              I like that….I’ve been in the woods to long,…… fruitage of the spirit, there’s five right? I want to say: love, joy, self control….that’s all I got without cheating, did I get a C+?

            • J.M.J.

              You did indeed .I always end up with about 19 as some are similar and I tend to include them .Is it (without looking ) love ,joy, patience ,self control ,and is it mildness?) It is in Galations chapter 5 verse 22 .(I always thought it was in 2 Timothy) On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,* kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.Against such things there is no law. Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed to the stake the flesh together with its passions and desires.

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Against such things there is no law……I remember now: joy, peace, patience,* kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.
              Thanks John,
              LATER

            • Noe Namely

              Yes!

            • Song of Hannah

              John I am going through much the same. Every time I get back up Satan comes and slaps me down, sometimes so hard it feels like my hearts been thrown in a cuisenart. I will pray for you, and if you return the favor I’d be mightily obliged.

            • J.M.J.

              When it first started I was knocked for six as I was always told about the lost sheep and the rejoicing in coming back to the fold .Or the prodigal sons return and the rejoicing . No I have been and still am being tested on everything that I am fearful about ,usually at a time when there is no help available and escaping .I pray and ask for help and endure .I believe that just as Jesus had to endure so we must ,so as to give an answering to satan who is calling day and night for us to be tested .I feel that soon this will come to its end as even Job saw an end to his trials and tribulations .I also feel JEHOVAH is watching and feels our pain .I also think he allows it to see what we are like when under stress . As it is written “it is easy to be faithful when things are going good ” .
              You hang in there ,and I do hope that things come to good .

            • Song of Hannah

              You too John. Several times when I was at the end of my rope, Jehovah always carried me through, rescued me mentally. I heard this song the other day, wish I’d wrote it, as it expresses my emotions so well, which I sometimes have trouble finding…
              https://youtu.be/2TRqGXMV_Wc

            • J.M.J.

              Hello again song of Hannah .Besides this site I read a lot from Perimino .He is also one of the anointed .He is full of love ,but has some very useful topics .such as patience,Obedience and the benefit of waiting . He has his story and it is very up building even when things are going bad .I believe like him that at the moment we should continue with the WTBTS as they are still JEHOVAHS people and as such should be respected as they are still giving the message of the kingdom . Jesus never told his disciples to say anything to the priests and neither should we . Give the site a look over .Much love Joseph . (My real name )

            • Song of Hannah

              Aw thanks Joseph! Yes I’ve read a lot of what Perimeno has written, and I really appreciate his unique perspective. I found his article on dedication especially enlightening.

            • Peter Zuccerberg

              Your may very well be correct in the statement of continuing with the WTBTS.

              But I believe you cannot sit in the congregation (if one chooses to regularly attend) knowing the real truth and remain silent.

              If you really believe the real truth way would one play act with the deceived ones in the congregation, just to be accepted.

              You would be as guilty as they are.

              No, I choose to be like an example of Jesus and a John the Baptist because why lead people to a say 90 percent truth when you can give them 100 percent truth?

              Do you want 90 percent?

            • Kevin b

              For those of us who are baptized it’s not quite that easy. You have nothing to loose, you can’t get disfellowshipped. When the time is right Iwe can be more vocal about the real truth.

            • Peter Zuccerberg

              Yes yes I fully agree, and my message to the ones can do what I do and/or are not baptized, is an “idea” for them.

              That is my point. If conscious is bothering you, I just perhaps gave someone an idea.

              If one needs clarification, please write first…

            • Thinking

              The point is Peter..you are not like Jesus or John..you have not been given a commission or work to do as they have been…..but you have been given one….and until Jesus returns..we all need to be doing it in some shape or form…..it doesn’t matter how..
              That is too preach the good news..go forth and make disciples..
              How are you going with that Peter?
              Lately I had to admit and rectify I have been hit and miss with it..BECAUSE of what I know…even felt justified in it to some point because of what we know…I have had to eat more humble pie ..and correct my reasonings …
              People still desperately need to hear the good news and what Jehovah has in store for mankind…the wonders…the hopes…Hope…that’s what people need now. Do I need to teach false hoods or go against my concience in that..off course not…there are ways around such things…each must work that out for themselves….and I have..and I have now a lot of peace.in preaching the good news now..just as we were commanded to do .

              So Peter..who does this hard work…is it not the very ones who you try to wake up…are they not doing what Jesus directed to do?
              As you travel from cong to cong dropping a seed of knowledge here and there…have you thought about what you have done?
              Have you encouraged, up built,..or caused divisions and weakened their faith…so as they go on to stumble…perhaps all you have done is to extinguish a flickering flame.
              Are you prepared to wear that millstone around your neck if you do…after all..you are not remaining there …. building that one in the cong to build that faith up after sowing seeds of doubt are you….

              Also Peter. If you are prepared to lay the societies faults and errors out before brothers and sisters…are you also prepared to lay out before them your own sins…for all to see and hear…or do you just want it one way …
              Only Jeusus upturned the stalls of the money bearers in the house of Jehovah…never ever do we read of the apostles doing it…and yet you dare to???

              So Peter you and I have a teeny weeny little bit of knowledge..that some others do not…who gave it to you???..yourself…
              No Peter …all of us here have been aided with the HELPER…the HOLY SPIRIT…
              those brothers and sisters you talk of do not need you to wake them up…the Holy Spirit will do that …if he so chooses .
              In fact be careful Peter you are not indeed working against the Holy Spirit in your actions and not thinking to much of yourself…

              You think we have 100 percent truth??????..you HONESTLY THINK THAT!!
              We have nothing that wasn’t given to us..and then it is but a nano droplet
              Instead Peter..why not be there for ones who soon are going to struggle with their faith as to what is coming upon all of us…be there for your brothers in their time of need.
              If you have been hurt..but it to good use…if you have scars from the society..make then work for you…I wish you the best Peter…but if you continue on in your course.Please don’t visit my cong..we have already been thru hell…we don’t need anymore pain…

              Sis thinking

            • Wow ! Bravo Thinking Bravo !! ????????????????? See why we need you here as well. Welcome back ?

            • J.M.J.

              Hello Bravo .
              Thinking put it much better than I could ,but this is why I do not say anything .
              All the time Jesus exposed the priests ,and the other religious leaders of his time ,he never ever directed his apostles to do so .I take his lead as he said as a witness JEHOVAH could use the stones to do so .It kind of puts the answer right there .
              As for JEHOVAH s witnesses ,they are the main ones doing the preaching work about his kingdom .Until I perceive that it is time to get out of her I will keep associating .I was put off many times by the rules of men in the past . Many of them elders as was my sisters ,but they are spreading the news of the kingdom and will be dealt with in JEHOVAH s time .
              I hope this makes sense ,but as I stated Sis Thinking put it much better . .

            • Thanks Joseph, you said it just fine! I love your insight on things as well !

            • Beverly kenyon

              Aaaaaand she’s gone!!! Slam!! That’s funny Jdab! I absolutely love Sister Thinking…she’s so right and I also needed to hear those words from her as I think I’ve messed up bad and I’m wracked with worry about what I did! Aaargh! Oops!

            • Ah yes, glad to see you are alive and kicking, was just thinking about you yesterday.
              Did you blow your top and tell off some self righteous sister yesterday?

            • Beverly kenyon

              Lol. Hiya Jdab, yeah, I’m alive & kicking. Thank you for asking…you’re such a thoughtful, caring Brother…I appreciate that and no, I didn’t go nuclear and had a go at a Sister. Thanks to Brother King’s articles and learning from some of the amazing people on this site I think I’ve spiritually matured into a better person. What it is…after the meeting I give a Brother a lift home…he’s very easy to talk to. There’s just the two of us and I’m gabbing away about the study article and I don’t know how I got into it but nearly four hours later, having parked up outside his house, I’ve told him all about EWatchman and all the things I’ve learned…the real truth about the truth..and how because of some witnesses on the site that’s why I’m back at the Kingdom Hall because I was never going back…he looked a bit stunned at that…next minute he’s got his phone out looking up Brother King’s site and writing down the scripture about the Man of Lawlessness…he looked oblivious at that and other things I told him that’s happening in God’s House…he said he’s an open minded person and we talked and looked up scriptures…he was clueless about the United Nations betrayal, his friend was stumbled because of the paedophile scandal but he yet he seemed oblivious to it and I told him it was true and some of what I know about that….it all came pouring out of me! So now in hindsight, I’m mortified that I could stumble him. I promised Sister Thinking I would keep it zipped and I completely forgot the good advice from Hannah and Sam. I’m a rubbish spy…I completely caved!! Feel bad about letting Sister Thinking down about being discreet so when I saw her post today about that very thing I felt even worse…because she was so right…there’s repercussions for spilling the beans…just don’t want to wreck someone’s faith. Things are going to be a bit awkward now but I’m just got to deal with it and just keep smiling and not make eye contact but I’ll still offer him a lift!

            • Don’t worry about it, if someone really loves Jehovah it’s not going to jeopardize his faith at all. We are so close to the whole system coming unglued that open minded people need to know! So no worries, Jehovah will help him Digest those spilt beans. You did what you felt was right & maybe Jehovah put you in that situation for that outcome.
              Deep breath- it’s okay

              Much much love Joseph

            • Beverly kenyon

              Phew! Thanks for that advice Jdab, that’s so true…if his love for Jehovah is strong and true then his faith shouldn’t be jeopardised…that’s my main concern. Thank You Jdab for your reassuring words.

            • And also sis thinking was blasting Suckerburg for thinking it’s his duty to go around to halls like he’s been commission by God to do so and Expose the WTBTS.
              What you did is totally different.

              Sweet dreams
              Joseph

            • Beverly kenyon

              Jdab, you never fail to make me laugh…I know you’re a witness but you’re SO HUMAN, that’s why I have great affection for you Jdab…I hope Daisy and Volcanic don’t get jealous because they adore you too…sorry, no disrespect to your wife…and yes, i hope I do have sweet dreams tonight as last night was horrific because I was tormented by that problem!

            • Volcanic

              back off lady, J’dab is ours! *tee-hee*
              Actually, my ‘dearest anointed sister’ & I had a joke about who we would like to marry in the new system & I said Cyrus, I like his tough guy yet gentle approach…oooh, hooo, poor guy doesn’t know what faces him in the future! So, you’re safe with J’dab, I actually think of him as my younger brother!!!!!!!!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Volcanic, you make me laugh sooo much…you have such a brilliant sense of humour!! Hope you and your girls are thriving and everything’s as good as can be. That’s great to see you and your ‘dearest anointed sister’ having a good laugh together and fighting over Cyrus…he does sound like a real babe…gentle but tough…I like that combo! Lol. Jdab is up there with the best of them! And he’s always looking out for for us on this site…that’s so reassuring.

            • Thinking

              Sis Beverly.
              How do you know that wasn’t the Holy Spirit working….the helper will direct ones to us if he chooses to….when he does..it all seems to work out…if you spoke for four hours ..it seems it bubbled forth on you…lol..

              I guess you will soon find out hey..lol…you will have to play it by ear now..just be there for him to keep him strengthened in his faith..
              Beverly this is different to deliberately trying to wake ones up….so just pray like mad…you may have found yourself a friend .
              You owe me nothing sis…but you better zip it now….hahah as you may be out on your ear…and not be able to help any one…
              Let me know how this goes….Joe has my email….

              Big hug sis…xx

            • Beverly kenyon

              Sister Thinking, it’s so fantastic to hear from you! That Brother asked me if the elders were involved with me going back to meetings and I told him none of them played a part in that and it was because of Brother King’s site and the real truth I’ve been taught there and the witnesses who encourage each other and that’s when I mentioned you and how you encouraged me and I really filled up and got emotional at that and I could see on his face he felt how that meant so much to me…it was no elders that got me back after 14 long years it was witnesses like You, Sam, Hannah, Daisy, Volcanic and reading encouraging comments from others…and of course Jehovah my Heavenly Father who always support and look out for me even though I’m a bad sinner and I’ve disappointed him so many times and of course which I’m completely ashamed about. I will try Sister Thinking to keep it contained and stay under the radar…I don’t want to let you down and I do not want to be thrown out of the synagogue yet as I’m quite liking being back.

              Much love to you. Xx

            • Sam

              Beverly, i feel the same way every time i mention anything. You always get faced with that look where you know exactly what they’re thinking lol. I always think i’m either saying too much and not the right way or i’m not saying anything and i’m just going along with things too much. The fact is, i think whenever a response is necessary it’s always going to sting for a little bit. These aren’t things that our brothers are ready to accept, and most of us here wasn’t ready the first time but i guess to some degree it has to be said sooner or later. Y’know it’s funny, we always think we’re the worst person when we blab too much but whenever we read about someone else on here doing it we think “awesome, you did it” lol You’ve done so well to get back into the routine and you’re their for your brothers and sisters, be proud. Jehovah got you to this point, he’ll get you all the way. 🙂

            • Beverly kenyon

              Awww. Thank you Sam for those words. If you remember, you put across the final argument about me going back to meetings and then it was a done deal..BAM! Next thing I knew I was in my Kingdom Hall clothes singing songs to Jehovah…with the sister at the back sounding like she’s being strangled! Lol. It was great! Got talking to a lovely Brother and I don’t know why but he just said how he’s open minded….it was weird so I had him down to tell some of the real truth but of course that won’t be happening now…playing it cool. Can you believe one of the Brothers…only about 48years of age…dropped down dead in our Kingdom Hall!!! Two of the Sisters who are nurses worked on him to no avail…still can’t believe that happened…it was at the Thursday meeting…still can’t believe that happened!

            • Sam

              You are most welcome. Yes i remember, i knew you would make it there even when you were saying you wouldn’t lol Thats so good that you had that experience, i wonder if Jehovah played a part as sis thinking said. Jehovah gives us just what we need… and he blesses us for getting our feet wet. You sure that wasn’t me singing? Come to think of it, maybe the sister being strangled had just blabbed about e-watchman and was getting the necessary discipline haha watch out lol It’s quite telling that the brother listened to what you had to say, most would run the opposite direction after tarring and feathering you after a few mins. Who knows, maybe he took in some of what you said. He won’t be able to disprove it thats for sure. And wow thats crazy, do they know what was wrong with him?

            • Beverly kenyon

              I’d like to think he did take in some of what I told him. Don’t give up your day job Sam if you sing like you’re being strangled! Lol. Crying laughing at that bit about the Sister getting disciplined. No, I haven’t been told what was wrong with him…that was horrific! I’d like to think Jehovah played a part in me telling him about EWatchman but I remember whilst talking to him I kept saying in my mind to Jehovah to help me say and remember all that I knew…I just wanted to get it across as correctly as I could because I knew I might not get another chance. But for now I’m keeping quiet! That was a bit scary!!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya Sam, hope I’m not sounding gossipy but you asked about the poor Brother who died at our Kingdom Hall last week, well it was a heart attack. He suffered from asthma, thought he was having an asthma attack went outside and was hanging unto a car banging for a fair few minutes but the attendants were inside the hall and didn’t hear a thing, some people passing saw him in clear distress ran to the entrance of the hall told the brothers that there was a drunken man collapsed outside, the nurse sisters worked on him but he was already gone…the ambulance came about three minutes later, they were quite quick…he was only forty two years of age. So tragic and sad.

            • Sam

              Wow thats crazy. Really young for a heart attack! Maybe if someone went out with him or went to check on him they couldve helped him sooner. Thats something for attendants to be more aware of. I might mention this

            • Beverly kenyon

              Yeah, Hiya Sam, quite young for an heart attack but he had the underlying health problem of asthma and he had only just been baptised. So now our attendants have to have their hi-vis vests on and to be outside so yes it is worth mentioning.

            • Joe Dman

              Hey Beverly. I get really worried when I talk to someone about what I’ve learned. And later I worry that they won’t get the connection and it’ll be more of a stumbling stone than a light to see the society’s stone by. I always start out by saying like you did that this site is what brought me back to the meetings. And I repeat often that the watchtower is the only place to receive the basic truths of the bible. There is no other path to Jehovah. All of us here have received the basic truth in some way from the watchtower. But like you, I can see sis Thinking’s reasoning in not mentioning these things to active ones. It’s so hard. It’s like when we first learned the basic truths and we wanted to tell others. Maybe I read it on Perimeno’s site or someone mentioned it here, but they don’t need a doctor…yet. Actually I think Sis said it. So I have concluded that I will just stick to inactive ones who I know aren’t attending meetings anymore. Even that could be dangerous if they relate it to an active friend or relative. They’d probably leave out the important stuff and I’d come off looking like an apostate. It may be that Jehovah wants to enlighten only those who are still searching for him and we may be putting too much emphasis on going out and finding them.
              So I feel for you in your worrying but I hope it has a good outcome. I’ll probably miss your update if there is one. I’m just now reading this from 2 days ago.
              I think it is all in Jehovah’s hands and if hee sees your love for him and that you’re doing it for truth sake, I doubt he’d let a person you talked to stumble, unless he didn’t want that person there, since he can read that heart better than we can.

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya, Joe Dman, really nice to hear from you. Yeah, you read I blew my cover so’s to speak and I was mortified that I might’ve stumbled that witness I told everything to…ill be thinking twice before I do that again plus I’ve got to remember Sister Thinking, Hannah and Sam’s advice to keep Schtumn. I’m not really bothered about Elders speaking to me…if I’m dobbed in…I’m more bothered about stumbling someone….do not want that on my head. You’re right when you say it’s like when we found the truth…wanted to tell any and everybody. That’s how I feel about the things I’ve learned on this site…I want to tell every witness…its just bubbling inside me but I think Joe, we will get that opportunity fully in the near future when things start to unfold as we’ve learned on this site. Someone wrote in their post about the Organisation has done a lot of good but also bad and that is true and someone else also wrote in a post…maybe Sister Thinking possibly….that Jesus cleaned out Jehovah’s Temple and slated the religious leaders and was scathing of them but he didn’t encourage it of his disciples…he was the one that took them on so I try to remember that. I think of myself in training now physically and mentally for what is coming Joe…I’m going to have to be physically strong and in good condition and also mentally sharp and aware…soaking up as much information and bible knowledge as I can. Thanks Joe for your supportive post…that means a lot to me…knowing I’m not alone facing the same sort of things.

              Much love to you and your Family. ( Btw, I love reading your posts…you’re so down to earth and says it as it is without frills…you really warm to a person like that).

            • Hiya Bev
              Remember the spilling of the beans? Read Dean’s post in the guest book!!

            • Beverly kenyon

              Hiya, Jdab, I read Dean’s story in the Guest Book the other day ( love the Guest Book, I always check it for new stories ), and I wondered who that sister was, at least he acknowledged her, but I’ve noticed a theme with most of us who stumble unto and find Brother King’s site…most of us were losing faith and started questioning our religion or/and we were wounded spiritually and ignored…I’m thinking of Tamar who posts on this site when I say that…that girl is emotionally wounded by the cold treatment she received at meetings…that is so wrong to treat a sensitive person like that…I haven’t forgotten her post…it was like a cry for help, hope she’s okay. Jdab, I will be trying my best not to be spilling the beans as yet…I’ve promised Sister Thinking again…don’t want to let her down. Finding Brother King’s site gives a person such peace of mind knowing the real truth of God’s word and I truly believe that yes you can be an active witness and still be a part of and learn from this site if you’re balanced and sensible about it…the two can co-exist until the time comes for when we have to step away from the ‘Rebels’.

            • Peter Zuccerberg

              Your correct. But you miss what I was saying a bit.

              If you’re conscious let’s you do what your doing (preach something you know is incorrect) then I stand by what I said.

              If you are working around the politics and getting the real truth out great, that is what I plan. I don’t go and start arguments. One witness approached me recently and just kept talking to me, so finally I just told the person what I believed in a low low tone of voice and in about 1 or 2 sentences.

              The witness trying to get away from me as fast as possible.

              Did I hurt the person or help?

              That is the extent of what I can do.

              Sorry you misunderstood.

              The e-watchman website is far more to the point and blunt than I am. In fact, I learned this corrected truth from brother Kings YouTube’s and others. I thank Jehovah He supplied someone who just put it out there…loadly, bluntly and over and over again. That’s good thing, not hurting peoples faith and witnesses feelings, don’t you agree?

              As far as me and John the Baptist. I will not even touch that…

              If calling an obvious pedophile protecting policy organization what it is, and from that, and organization that has no problem whatsoever in lieing to to cover it up along with its constant additions of “new light” which was never light and feeding that to people, some of which have dedicated their entire lives to Jehovah in sincerity, hurts someone’s feelings, then it’s OK because if an outsider can be warned minor thing, they just as easily not do an about-face, and look further into the organization and discover the pedophiles, this may save children.

              So yes I am discreet, I hope.

              But we where quite and passive and afraid to hurt feelings has gotten us in the past 50 or 100 years.

              Pedophillia victims and stumbled people and dissalousioned people from the watchtowers habits of new light and end date predictions to the tune of 10’s of thousands. And those thousands go out and affect many others that may be interested in the truth, but won’t consider it.

              My hope to try to correct as much as I can, this mess the watchtower perpetrated and just give the plain truth, but state the Jehovahs Witnesses is the true religion, but like all religions, it has been corrupted by Satan.

              No, no quick come back Bible verses at their door, no, just the plain facts, this giving credit for being intelligent, and playing the salesman. Truth my brothers has a ring to it.

            • Kevin b

              Wow! Sister you rock. I wish you were at my hall. ???

            • Burt Reynolds

              Ouch!

            • Noe Namely

              Interesting reply & it hit home with me but how do you pull that off now?….Thank you! ….I felt relief at first and as time passes and more time to reflect….I have another dilemma……Going to the Hall and trying to fit in just to be accepted while sitting there feeling two faced and dishonest, being disloyal to something I no longer have trust or faith in…watching others heads hanging low & hearing the same canned answers proclaiming loyalty to a group of men…It’s very much like the old Tale…The Emperor’s New Clothes” I find myself sitting there in disgust & waiting for it to end so I can bolt out the door to breath in the fresh air. Then coming here to learn what seems to be the perfect Truth ….. I’m left with a conflict……that I am keeping secrets in a deceptive heart. How can Jehovah view me as anything but a deceiver? I can’t continue with these secrets and be able to say I am not deceptive in some fashion….even though I might feel I have been forced to it. One Camp has it right…. To have a pure Heart, I must make a choice and commit to it full heartedly and not walk this tight rope between the two camps. One camp is accepting, the other accepts no others but it’s own and does not support members with questions about the “Regime”…..They say they are there to keep you safe & help protect your faith….Not Anymore! Now, at the first hint of disbelief in New Upper Level Managment…whispers are leaked, you are suddenly marked and only spoken to by one or two elders…. they go straight to work to cut you off at the knees, even spying on you to prove you unfit for the congregation…I’ve had this experience just for asking questions! I keep asking myself which Camp is in the true spirit of God and his only begotten son Jesus Christ? On one side, there is Verifiable Truth & acceptance, but the cost for Truth is a total & complete loss of my extremely large family and life as I’ve known it almost my whole life….The other is a corrupted “Form” of the Truth. Why must one choose and bear such loss for defending the actual TRUTH? A very tough choice…..Do these feelings pass? Does anyone else feel like this for going between the two camps and keeping these Secrets? If so, I hope you will share a few of your thoughts?

            • 1914for100Alex

              I think it’s impossible that Jehovah would view you as a deceiver. This is all his will. Part of his plan. Think of it more as biting your tongue until the time is right. Easy for me to say though. I haven’t been to the KH in years, but maybe this will help.

            • J.M.J.

              Jesus said to be as cunning as a serpent and as innocent as a dove . I think that is very good advice for this day and age .

            • Thinking

              Hi Noe Namley.
              I would much rather speak with you by email…Joe Dman has my email if you would like to get it off him.
              Yes it does get better with time…you adjust…you mellow out…you balance out.
              I was once like you are now…..but there are NO TWO CAMPS
              You do NOT have to belong to ONE or the OTHER this is the mistake you are torturing yourself with…as I also did years ago.
              Jehovah drew you to him…he drew you to his house…why would he do that Noe Namley…just to have you leave again..
              He drew you to his house..knowing they were in error at the time…yet also knowing the wheat was there..and many truths…
              He DREW you knowing he would one day discipline that same house..so now do we all turn away from that household that he DREW us to…??
              He Drew you by his HELPER…THE HOLY SPIRIT….so why would you even think about leaving when he used such a gift to get you at his household…why would he expend his dynamic energy in doing this…??
              YOU are amongst his people…his imperfect people..and I am also one of them.
              As all of us are here…why would you not stay and encourage me…

              Now then…I cannot recall on what work sheet from the mid week meeting but there was a statement saying ….we do not worship/ serve ( I cannot remember the exact wording ) an organization..but worship / serve the Almighty God Jehovah…
              Now this came from our brothers ..from the society..did you see it…it caught my eye.

              Many in the congregations around the world have this same view..they do not serve the organization but their own God Jehovah….sure some do serve the org..they are comfortable with that..maybye lots do…but there are still many who do not…why would you even think about leaving them.??
              Besides ..it does not belong to us to look at any brother and say they are this or they are that….we have the real truth and they do not….have we then not become self rightous ourselves and as bad as any weed in the cong?
              Roll up that tight rope and put it away…it is dangerous to you…
              Jehovah has seen fit to use the New Upper Level Management…it is his choice to allow them there..we must respect this choice of his..For it is HIS WAY of doing things until Jesus returns…For otherwise would we not have anachy in the congs …each mouthing of his own understandings…this would Impead the preaching work very much..and as we know it MUST be preached for the end to come..
              We must respect the positions that they hold as it is JEHOVAHS wish…and who are we to judge these men anyway…just with this tiny little bit of knowledge we have

              Can you remember the account where Paul …I think it was him….spoke in a rough manner to one of the preists of the temple….and those around him were aghast at his manner ..and pointed out to him that he dare to speak to a priest like that …
              Paul actually apologized for he did not realize he was a priest of the temple.
              He showed great respect to that man that held that position…perhaps not to the man himself but to his position.
              We too must show respect to those that hold such positions today..no matter what our private thoughts may be…….for they are only there because Jehovah is allowing it.
              By respecting them..you are respecting Jehovah and his ways of handling things.

              Keep your own counsel Noe Namley…and enjoy your brothers and sisters..enjoy the wheat that is still there coming from the platform …put up with the weeds..whoever they may be…for it is not time for the Angels to gather them yet..remember Jehovah is also using them as well…for he will even makes the stones cry out If he has too.
              You will be fine Noe Namley…as long as you get of that tight rope amd destroy that thing…..and that there is no two camps….when you realize that in your heart and mind you will find the peace you crave …?
              Now I must stop this as it is far too long …and Joeseph S will think I have come back thru that screen door….but it would have been very rude and unloving of me not to reply to your heart felt anguish.
              Please Noe Namley. By all means email me if you wish…
              Much love and peace to you
              Sis thinking

            • Bklyn Kevin

              John 21:
              22 Jesus said to him: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to [us] / you? You continue following me.”

            • Joshua

              Thinking..the account your referring to was when Paul spoke against the high priest and he was corrected and Paul apologized saying, I didn’t know he was the high priest and he said you shall not speak evil against a ruler of your people, from exodus 22:28

              “Do not blaspheme God or curse the ruler of your people..

              I appreciated that the other night I watched a movie on the life of the apostle Paul, I’d like to send you the link if you have an email? I appreciated it because this was after the death of Christ yet he still obeyed the law. Thanks for your comment.

            • Thinking

              Yes I would like this link Joshua…I cannot give out my email( all tho I did once by mistake ) as it gives my ID away…but can you contact Joe Dman…as he has my email….he is the MS….for emails…hahah..I have taken note of your other post as well….but it is very deep…
              Or you can give me your email…if you feel safe with that…
              All this secret squirrel stuff is rather painful isn’t it…lol…
              ..

            • Joshua

              Ok, hi I’m not sure who Joe dman is? Haha, Robert does have my email I talk to him sometimes when I have problems or questions, is Joe dman on this sit, is there a particular thread or article he has commented on? I just don’t want to put my email publicly?

            • Noe Namely

              Sort of makes you wonder don’t it? Makes one wonder if
              WT has their guy on here to befriend those who might be in need and offer them a shoulder but must do it in private…while getting the e-mail address you must surrender yours and blow your cover. I’ve experienced too much in my 65 years to not be wondering about this one. When I saw that you got the same message as I did….My inner alarm went off…. Best of Luck Josh & proceed with extreme caution!

            • Joe Dman

              Darn. My cover has been blown. I demand you surrender your email to me immediately.
              If you are so inclined to review all the posts from only a few months past you will find that one of the most sincere loving and caring sisters you could meet emailed me to ask if I knew a fellow posters email. I had previously posted mine for another reason but that’s how she got mine. In short, since I’m not worried about my address being posted on here, I have volunteered to keep passing emails, but only after I check to make sure both parties know of the transaction. And I only charge a one time fee of 5.99. Of which 5.99 will be waved prior to invoicing.
              It would be nice if Robert would pass our emails between two consenting adults, but he don’t even have time to get us a podcast a month out. Our podcasts are to us like the dramas were to us at the conventions. It’s the big thing we all look forward to.
              Oh yeah, there’s my ugly mug in the forum section. Who couldn’t trust a face like that. Now the forum would be a great place for us to stay on a particular topic. But I’m afraid the masses are too entrenched in this commenting format to change.
              But regardless, I hope you are sincere in your continued search for Jehovah. All of us permanent residence on here are and we know that’s why most of you come and become a member of our official unofficial online congregation.
              If there’s someone with more of a presence on here that would like the task of passing emails, I will relinquish my post. Mostly for expedience sake since I don’t stay on top of the comments. I’m currently re reading Roberts book, reading Perimeno’s articles, reading the bible and doing some construction work at my place. But I look forward to getting requests for emails as it allows me to stay in contact with the others. And I really enjoy doing it.
              This commenting is great, but often some want to speak privately about things we don’t want everyone here to see. Just like in real life.
              As the saying goes: to each his own.

            • Noe Namely

              That would be Br549@jw.org………

            • Thinking

              Okay I’ll approach Robert

            • Joshua

              Email me to let me know you were able to get it from Robert he may not have it anymore I haven’t talked to him in a little while

            • Joshua

              Who is Joe dman?

            • ewatchman

              I responded to someone a few minutes ago who asked me for Joshua’s email, but I received a notice that the email was undeliverable

            • Thinking

              Oh thanks for that Robert…did you try to email me…? Mmmm….if so Imdon to now why it didn’t work…but thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule …it is much appreciated ..

            • Joshua

              Did it work thinking?

            • Thinking

              I’m still trying Joshua..hopefully you will hear from me or Joe Dman soon..

            • Thinking

              Here you go Joshua..if you contact Joe he will give you my email..he has given me permission to put it here.dmaninspection@gmail.com5 hours ago

            • Noe Namely

              Do you know who Joe Dman is? I was told to approach him to get someone else’s e-mail address because this someone did’t want their identity exposed…yet it required me to surrender my own….NO Thanks I guess… I’m leary of WT Shills weeding out the Truther’s to DF or silence some them other way? It seemed a bit over the top………

            • Thinking

              Did you stop to think brother that that very person may have been betrayed by a shill also in the past and now trusts nobody…

            • Noe Namely

              I’d like to know more about Paul still observing the Law after the death of Christ….please! The Law as in the 613 Instructions including the 10 Commandments….This interests me greatly…where might I read more? I was taught and then thought that the Law was “fulfilled” at Pentecost? Fulfilled meaning over & done, put aide, as in….it no longer applied, no longer needed or used etc…the Law telling people how to live even yoking your oxen….how could this Law be fulfilled and no longer be needed & used. Like thalt shalt not kill….If it’s fulfilled & no longer needed/used, then there was a period where it was ok to kill etc………if it’s fulfilled and no longer used….according to the elders I studied with and the two others that I asked several pointed questions of, on this subject…My wife and I have an ongoing debate on the subject of the Law where she says it is still in effect as God said “I change Not”…the old “not a jot or a tittle to be changed” thing that seems to never be resolved. I think I need some fresh perspective and different reading material?

              Best…..

            • Joshua

              The apostles said not to ad any further burden to the gentiles except what’s nessesary, yet Paul asked if the law was nullified, and he said no.
              Romans;
              Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

              We are under the law in the sense that Christians still ar required to obey the ten commandments, and the principles of the law, we don’t observe sacrificing though, what would that say if we started making sacrifices again after Christ’s perfect unblemished sacrifice..if Robert will permit it I’ll give a link to the life of the apostle Paul. It’s kind of cheesy, I mean the voices are dubbed, but it’s a good reenactment of Paul’s life.

            • Joshua

              https://youtu.be/RTtiZgvmwdA
              The life of the apostle Paul. There are a couple of minor errors but I really enjoyed watching this.

            • Joshua

              I was reading some of Roberts articles and saw an error I believe unless I’m mistaken,

              In the article is Jesus Michael the archangel the article MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL, THE GREAT PRINCE

              Michael the archangel is featured in the Bible as the chief angel; the leader of all of heaven’s angels. He is also revealed to be the leader of God’s people – both before Christ and after. He is portrayed in the Bible as the savior of Christians during the tribulation and the vanquisher of Satan, the serpent. In short, Michael is shown to possess all authority in heaven and on earth – the same as Jesus Christ.
              Showing in the article that Jesus is Michael the archangel,

              However in the article Daniel and the parousia he stated that Daniel had a transfiguration of sorts with the great prince himself saying;

              Daniel revealed much concerning the coming kingdom of the one whom he referred to as the Prince of princes, it was fitting that the prophet should personally participate in a dramatic encounter with a representation of the great prince himself – a transfiguration of sorts – which, serves as a prophetic foregleam of the ultimate, glorious manifestation of Jesus Christ to the chosen ones during the parousia.

              It is noteworthy that the men accompanying Daniel did not visually see the appearance, yet they were overcome with terror, sensing that they were in the proximity of something awesome and terrible. Consequently, they fled and hid themselves – leaving Daniel by himself in the presence of the “great appearance.”

              But read Daniel chapter ten again with Daniel and the glorified great prince Jesus Christ.
              The glorified great prince tells Daniel to be strong saying;
              Again the one who looked like a man touched me and gave me strength. [19] “Do not be afraid, you who are highly esteemed,” he said. “Peace! Be strong now; be strong.” When he spoke to me, I was strengthened and said, “Speak, my lord, since you have given me strength.” [20] So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; [21] 21 but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.
              The glorified great prince distinguishes himself from Michael, now read Revelation chapter one of Christ’s vision, and the description of the figure Daniel sees, it does appear to in fact be Christ yet he says no one supports him except Michael his prince?

            • Joshua

              I do agree that Michael seems to fulfill all the words of Christ he has angels as does Christ, he comes with an archangel’s voice as does Christ. Yet as Daniel seems to be speaking to Christ in the vision he says ” no one supports me in these except Michael your prince”

              Yet Christ did say at John 17:24
              “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world

            • DA

              that was possibly Gabriel who woke him but another angel was speaking, not Michael. was it Gabriel who he saw before falling asleep? other passages show instances that angels were together. Michael had to be their.

              Dan 8:13&16; 9:21; 12:5

              i doubt thats Daniel speaking in verse 10:21 nor 13

            • Peter Zuccerberg

              Just a quick point:

              1. I have been on this site for no more than 3 weeks, so may I suggest you look up my past comments, some very long and explaining points in detail, others very short (im busy and/or I using a Smart Phone and its a headach to type long comments. You wil discover in my comments I am in full if not more agreement with you.

              2. In the future why not try if you find yourself puzzled with a short or blunt comment you run accross, to just write a quick reply back and say; ” What did you mean by that?…or this…did you mean such and such or so and so”. You can save a lot of embarassment and hard feeling between all parties, and show love… like you mentioned in your comment.

              3. Thus when I first read tyou comment, and saw how long it was (pages) I was reparing to be impressed with your insight based on my short little 2 1/2 paragraph comment. But as I read, and reread, I senced anger. Let me be the first to apologize for the misunderstanding.

              Now, I will make this conversation productive and just touch on 3 points, and try to turn the bad into good hopfully, as the examples of Jehovah and Jesus always manifest…” He causes to become” that is.

              a. You said I am not commisioned like John the baptised and Jesus. These are the kind of examples every single one of us on this planet should watch, no, strive to imitate. Is this a bad goal to study and copy intencely there there every move? This is where starts to develope my brother, meditating on them. Never discourage others to do the same…even if you think they are a little over the top, because its a its a good goal!

              b. I am the one shunned… immediately… and sometimes viciously, when I mention the real truth…and I walk away without so much as raising my voice, and with a smile.

              Its fustrating though. Again, if you look at my past comments, you would known you were seeing far too much in my approximate 3 short paragraphs.

              c. Calling a pedophile organization a pedophile facilitating organization (and many other things) was coined by brother King. Thank Jehovah this bother was not fearful and was vociferous, blunt, persistent…calling a spade a spade. If it was not for his boldness, and that of many others, we all would be dumbed down by the Wathtower, fustrated and lost. I am so glad he did not care about hurting feelings. But this man is 10 times more loader than me. We need more, not less people like him my brother.

              ?

              d.

            • Thinking

              Hello Peter…
              I’m sorry if I hurt you..and I certainly did not mean to put you down in anyway.
              You spoke very strongly in your thoughts….and very straight …so I am a bit perplexed my words came over as too strong ?
              Let me clear up a misunderstanding between us….I totally agree we should be imitating Jesus and John the Baptist ….if I gave the impression that you were not like them in this way My humble apologies ..that certainly was not the impression I meant to give.
              Nor would I ever say that or think that of anybody….in or out of the truth.

              You are not like Jesus or John the Baptist ..just as I am not like them …Jesus was a perfect man who had every right to uncover the wrongs of his own household..or that of his fathers household.
              You and I …..we really should not be making it our buisness to do that for them .
              Just as the apostles did not….
              Should you or I be speaking out against then GB or uncovering their sins ….no!.i can say no more than what I have already said to you ….and I stand by those former words.

              Peter I did go and read your posts from Disqs..BEFORE I answered you.
              I do understand what you were saying..I was not confused as to your points .
              Once again I can only encourage you to build up our brothers and sisters in these late days.
              as to what Robert does….I do not follow Robert…nor Perimeno..I am not an invited one.
              My commission is different to theirs…..nor would either of those men wish any of us too.
              Remember Peter…only Jesus took up the whip in the temple….the apostles never stepped up to do the same….they set the pattern for ones like you and me to follow.
              Once again I apologize if you thought I was referring you not to be imitating Jesus or Johns personality or fruits…never ever would I do that .
              Also there was not one nano drop of anger in my post..you know why I wouldn’t like you to visit my cong Peter….because we have been shredded by harsh elders….we have been skinned and thrown about by bad shepards…we are hurting..we are in pain…many of us are barley going forward..for two decades we lived like that .we lost nearly all of our young ones ..and many older ones …
              Now we have all new shepards…they are wonderful …but we are still recovering..and ANYONE dropping seeds of doubts would finish many off…
              I Wish you well Peter…and again I’m sorry if I hurt you…

              Sis thinking

            • Burt Reynolds

              Hello Peter, the reply to this reasoning was given some weeks ago I believe. However, my understanding of the value of attendance was not that it was to hold back in speaking of the truth, but to use opportunity to enlighten people. To speak out as the only person with sight in a congregation of the blind, one would think would be a glorious gift to those ones. But no! It is not wanted and is rejected at present by all but a few. And of those who do question, would not Jehovah lead them to the well? But the association in the hall, and gentle insertion of salient points in due season, can hit a lot harder that a great many flailing punches all at once. Then, when the time is right, people may be inclined to listen. And because you were among them, you carry also with you, the trust and familiarity and the ability to be a good guide. Christ himself said on several occasions to his disciples, ‘ it is not for you to know at this time.’ Thus it is with the congregations. I too feel the same as you. For my part, I would like to stand the governing body up against a wall in a locked room and talk them into submission. But it will do no good as for many, the truth is not in them. It is not in many in the congregation and our remit is to speak with those who will hear, not to those who will not. Jehovah will do that. Jehovah will lead us to those ones who want to hear, or they will find us out. I believe truth is here. If it is not here, then I have no idea where it may be found. People here speak truth and teach me. I cannot learn it alone, by myself. We need a teacher, or at least, I do. But We need to be there for others who need help, and where to find them? In the Kingdom Hall. Essentially, that is the why and wherefore as I understand it to be. And I think it’s right. Hopefully in time to come, I too will sit there, bite my tounge and wait for the right time. It will be a bloody tongue by then for sure, and well chewed and bitten, but it will still speak out at the critical time for the hearer.

            • 1914for100Alex

              I’ve been doing a lot of reading and reflecting on what I’ve read lately which is why I haven’t been posting much, but one of the things that I’ve realized is that Robert’s advice to go to the Hall makes sense. I’m not saying that I’m ready to go back, or that it will happen, but I have to imagine that for many people just being surrounded by other people of faith (the true faith…ish) during the period leading up to what’s coming has to be a positive thing. Then there’s the added bonus of helping people understand when the time comes. I still need to understand some things better before I feel comfortable engaging people outside of this site, but I’m working on it. I even got the courage up to “plant a seed” recently, so we’ll see where that goes.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              2 Timothy 3:12-14
              In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.
              But wicked men and impostors [within the organization] will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.
              You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them.

              Philippians 4:8
              Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things.

            • Joel

              Excellent Scriptures BK, especially 2 Timothy. Gives me a lot to ponder. Thanks.

            • Leonard k

              you just answered a question that was very much on my mind and those scriptures are of great importance to me thank you.

            • Bklyn Kevin

              Becoming all things to all people (19-23)

              You know the old saying, if you can’t beat them then joined them, well that is a worldly attitude in my opinion, however the Apostle Paul gave us a balanced view when he said” For though I am free from all people, I have made myself the slave to all, so that I may gain as many people as possible.

              To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to gain Jews to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law.
              To those without law I became as without law, although I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ, in order to gain those without law.
              To the weak I became weak, in order to gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, so that I might by all possible means save some. But I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others.

            • Leonard k

              I love that scripture it says so much.

            • 1914for100Alex

              Thanks for those scriptures Kevin.

            • Burt Reynolds

              It’s a difficult situation for us all with regard to advice that goes against the grain. For me, it is an unpalletable truth, but others can dismiss it and with good conscience. If I was on my own, I would go, but I’m not and I don’t want to cause grief, so I compromise and witness where I can on the Internet. I am storing up courage to act when I must, rather than when I should. But I don’t want to leave my dear wife behind. For some also it is difficult because We are also conditioned to disbelieve, shy away from, or mock those that say they carry the word of God, but we have also to make a choice. Millions believe it of the governing body and they speak half truths. Why not also believe it of an individual who hides nothing and does not hold back? Are we waiting for Jehovah to personally knock on our door? By then it will be too late. So how else should we hear? By stones crying out? How stubborn and faithless we should be to demand that. Some wait for a sign, I have even prayed for such myself….show me the TRUTH….and I get to think that I am abandoned because I never have a reply. But then when I read what is written here, I think this IS truth, and so it proves to be, not from man, but from the bible, truth, sensible, reasoned, undeniable, so I think, well, maybe THIS is my answer, and it proves to be so, for, as I have said before, that were this not the truth, then truely there is nowhere else to go, or to search, to hope for, to grieve for, to sigh for. It has for me, a very calming effect because were this not to be the truth, then I have done my best to find it and can do no more. I have an answer to give the creator. If it is, as I believe so, then it gives me strength to carry on. I worry that I will fail in spite of myself, because I am weak, but then I depend heavily on the sense of truth that is built within my heart, within all of us, that speaks to me of Jehovah and the mercy of Jehovah. It did not come from me. Unlike the watchtower, I am not sure we should ‘always be doing more’ , because there is a certain peace in knowing that Jehovah is not demanding more than love, more than to show it, more than to do it with a will and the will also to do it for him. He knows our limits and has told us he will not demand more than we can bear. Let us rejoice in that and be thankful that he speaks with us and dare I say it, that a seer has been raised up for us to hear. Does it not say so, that in these times, such will occur? We are about to see more than we can even imagine and to believe even what we cannot see as a test of faith.

            • 1914for100Alex

              Sounds like we have a lot in common Burt!

            • Noe Namely

              Well Said! I have, over time, come to the same conclusion….The hardest part for me is keeping silent after hearing what I believe to be the Real Truth…. Sharing it and talking about it would not end well even though it is the Real Truth…. But, we can’t carry the ball if we are sitting in the bleachers…. Bro Rob has opened my eyes and answered the heavy questions I was carrying in silence about the Society. Only recently, I figured it out and told an elder who was trying hard to throw me out while finding nothing against me….I told him that no matter if the GB is doing bad things or not, that is not the issue here…The issue is that It’s not my place to Judge them! I must forgive them and rely on Jehovah to deal with them in his own way & in his own time…Until they command me to act against Gods Word….then & only then should I refuse them….as hard as it was to say all of that, I hope it serves as a reminder to some and possibly a new way to deal with the disappointment for others.
              Best to All! mike…my real name, Thank You Joseph!

            • J.M.J.

              No man can save another man . He can only do that himself (I mean women as well) by listening and acting upon ,and by what is in their hearts . But a man can destroy another man by words and dead .If we say something that stumbles another his blood is on us . Better for a millstone to be put around our necks the bible says .As for me I will wait upon JEHOVAH,
              Much love to all . Joseph

            • Burt Reynolds

              Just get up once more time than he knocks you down. It’s like tennis. He who hits the ball the mist times over the net is the winner. Easier said than done, but…

        • Volcanic

          what a wonderful thing to say, other Ed, very heartwarming!

          • Joel

            Yes. Agreed. . .very heartwarming.

          • Ed(the other Ed)

            hope I didn’t shock you! (smile)

            • Joel

              Hey Ed. This is Joel.

              Hey Ed, could you read my post above to Brother King about all of us getting together, and tell me what you think, your thoughts. Please.

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Hi Joel, that’s a fantastic idea but I don’t think were all going to fly in and have a big party just yet, maybe afterwards when the great crowd is gathered together. It’s interesting that people from all over the world are logging in here don’t you think? I mean Europe to Africa to South America, India people are waking up slowly but surely so hold tight brother okay? You know what bud, your a stand up guy and have a heart of gold, I can tell by the way you write much better then me. Hold tight and have patience.

            • Joel

              Aw, thank you Ed for those kind words. I will take them to heart. Thank you my brother.

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              If I ever have feel a need to consult someone for direction in case I should go to the left or the right, up or down it will be you, and if your not around I will try Uncle Burt. You copy?

            • Joel

              Kapesh? Yes I do. I am there for you bro.

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Love you man!

            • Joel

              Back at ya! By the way, if I may ask, where are you from Ed?

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              In the wilderness Joel, right were I belong in a two story bush!

            • Joel

              Well, we are all in this together. With Brother King at the helm, and Jehovah’s spirit at the ready . . . we are bound to be victorious when the Watchtower comes tumbling down. Don’t worry bro, me and Jesus, yeah, we got your back!!!

            • Ed(the other Ed)

              Back up bud!…..Jesus is at the helm, Robert is at his side, don’t forget this.
              LATER

            • Joel

              Ha ha!, you are right! Lol!
              LATER

            • Noe Namely

              If you don’t mind my saying….I’m very concerned…..and mean only to ask you to look & think! You come here and openly declare your Good Standing at the Hall and then again on here as though you have gotten lucky and pulling the wool over everyone else….. Take a deep, calming breath Brother and ask yourself…..Is Jehovah really taking part in this…game, pass time…deception? Please forgive me & I mean it! But it’s jumping off the page and hitting me in the face. How can one be spiritually clean while keeping such secrets….. I understand that there are things not in their usual balance like from 25, 30, 40 years ago….I’m probably wrong to speak out and mean no disrespect…I REALLY worry about what seems to be so near at hand ….like we have been doing these past several; decades. I would hate so see someone get so close, then….ZAP! I say this to hopefully ask you to take one last look? This is all I will ever say about it.

              While I’m on a roll….I see many wonderful comments geared toward Bro Rob….I love him too… Let’s try to not over do it and not have him end up becoming an earthly God too, only thing worse than 7…would be 8…. He has helped us and I’ll never forget it, even if I miss the mark and loose my life….I’m just saying that while we might be walking a very tight rope, we might be not realizing how tight the rope is being stretched while enjoying temporary shelter from the Storm, for now. For me…this is a very serious if not dangerous walk we are making here…What if the secret is to knuckle under and observe WTS commands while standing watch until the last hour….If we can dutifully do that, surly we will know if it’s for us to then realize what is behind Door #2 when we must make a choice on that last day? The book says to never let your guard down, be diligent & stay on the watch….. I see more & more letting their guard down so low……Please folks, try not to judge me too harshly for speaking like this!…. My only goal in speaking is to try & help others because I definitely don’t have all the answers……not yet at least…do you?

            • Joel

              Some interesting comments, for sure . . . weighty things to think about and consider.

              Thank you so much.

            • Noe Namely

              I appreciate hearing from you Joel. It is our conversation and am removing it now.

              Best…..

            • Joe Dman

              Hmm, sounds like someone might want to email. Just joking buddy. I’m trying to catch up on the comments. It’s never ending.

            • Noe Namely

              Hey Dman, glad to finally assign an assumed face to the name, lol… Like others, I too have become gun shy from exibiting too much trust in elder/circuit overseer wanna be. I mean no real disrespect by he comment of the wanna be…just personal experience! How3 can something so critical to Everlasting Life be so full of/……….what ever you want to call it! I could write book but am just too tired of all the backdoor politics… I fear that the things I learned about WT and shares might have prevented someone form stepping forward so I’ve been trying to put a sock in it, lol…. Would enjoy conversation with experienced survivor with no ties to real the ORG….. I have some REAL questions and wonder off there will be time to resolve them on my own behalf before as I’ve heard most of my life…..”That Door SLAMS SHUT” Can’t you just hear that door slamming against the jam with the sound of that latch catching as the last ray of light is closed behind it? ….OH…What a feeling for a kid to live with his whole life! Parents should NEVER use fear to bring the kids to heal for the WTs…for anybody! These kids should have been protected better!, lol….. I remember being in the back seat with Mom and her JW friend…they rode together to meetings and us kids were cast to the read…I’d sit there and listen to
              Mom & Margaret talking about how the end was around the corner. ….I remember Nixon & Watergate & Mom saying….in great anticipation……Margret…This could be the beginning… to set it all off & into motion. Margret would say, yes..it just might and Jehovah could just Slam that Door Shut” at any second because those poloticians were doing what they do best……It would Scare me shirtless almost…. I lived the rest of my life looking for that door to Slam Shut with me just on the other side of it……. I’m sure many, many others have stories exactly like mine and perhaps much worse & even more worrisome to them while they were still too young to worry about such things!!!!…….. Hey Everybody….Lets Talk!

            • Thinking

              You are a very humble brother Joel

            • Thinking

              This is why I don’t like forums anymore or even commenting ..I,don’t want to be a part of this..Joel..you are building your own golden calf eeeh….

            • Joel

              Thanks for the cautious admonition. I will humbly look introspectively and readjust what needs to be dealt with.

              Thanks again.

            • Burt Reynolds

              Yes, I have mentioned it before to Joel as well, and you have a point. However, people do express their enthusiasm in emotional terms and oft without thinking. I say the wrong thing at times and I have had to learn to love the different approaches people have on this site and I am sure I make others sigh as well. We all grow and learn daily. We praise Jehovah but we really can have little concept of who he is. Our intelligence, such as it is, is meagre and our small insight, frustrating and exasperating towards Jehovah. That some of us express our appreciation for the enlightenment shown to us with short sighted exuberance, but with their heart in the right place, I am sure can be nurtured and gently persuaded to develop with the correct insight….and Jehovah reads the intent anyway. Better this, than to withdraw because of the shortsightedness of others, and better still to stay and impart the little we have to offer that may help the depth of insight of others. The message is impartial and the gratuity unasked for. Though it may be bending the parable of the talents somewhat, the principle remains in that out of love and tolerant work, we help others along as others help us. Jehovah has used a lowly donkey to berate his people before now, maybe because life is of equal value in all living things. It teaches thus, the mighty and the lowly, the inspired and the learner. It just takes some more time to look through the honoured to behold the honourable.

            • My guess is T.O.E. is from Boston

      • Hang in there buddy, you already have the Father and son’s favor. Because of not giving up and continuing to search and pray. You will achieve inner peace soon enough brother.
        Much love
        Joseph

        • J.M.J.

          Perhaps a bad choice of words in saying favour . I was meaning it as in help to end these bad times I am going through ..Sorry if I gave the impression that I had JEHOVAH S disfavour .I have been searching for years ,but these past 7 months have been real hard going affecting my health .I do not however intend to give up . Thank you .

        • Joel

          Hey Joe.

          I just posted an idea to Brother King (see it above) about all of us on this site getting together in some sort of E-Watchman Convention, or something. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this subject. Please.

    • Tabitha

      Welcome home Lisa. Come in, sit down and relax…….! There is no judgement here, just love and encouragement! We are only new members of the “family” too, but we love enjoying one another’s company here and visit every day. Perhaps you will experience a day filled with tears of joy like I did a few weeks back we I received my sincere and heartfelt welcome from all the dear brothers and sisters here. I enjoyed reading your experience and how Jehovah answered your prayer for help, he certainly knows how to take care of his sheep wherever they may be. Look forward to reading your comments sand hope you haven’t eaten yet, cause there’s enough “food” here to keep you going for a very long time! Love and Hugs!

    • Bobby 6343

      Welcome to the site. Some of us share almost the same stories. This site has enable many of us to appreciate Jehovah and his son Jesus as never before, plus to give us insight as to the working of prophesies.

      Hope to hear from you more often. We are small here, but growing. As I said, welcome to Robert’s site, e-watchman.

    • Peter Zuccerberg

      Something similar happened to me in that I witnessed gross wrongs being practiced in an organized habitual and ongoing manner, and when caught/exposed, and extensive and elaborate cover-up ensues…all this over years… And by the leadership, not by the rank in file everyday Jehovah’s Witness pioneer or congregant.

      I then prayed saying : “This can’t be you Jehovah! What do I do?”

      Then I drifted to websites…I resisted the stunning revelations that comported to my experience… at first, but instantly made a 360 degree anti-watchtower stance.

      Unlike others, when I come, I come all the way.

      Thank you for relating you story Lisa.

    • Leonard k

      I can not tell you how encouraging it is to see another learn the real truth to see a sister not give up faith but seek answers I am over joyed my heart filled with gladness that you are here and Jehovah in his infinite mercy gave you answers he made the way out by showing his undeserved love kindness and mercy he saw your heart and blessed you with truth. keep putting Jehovah first pray keep your faith strong continue taking in an accurate knowledge and Jehovah will be with you. welcome to the Watchmans sister post 🙂

  • Sharon

    I am still trying to get used to posting comments,I usually just read and enjoy the truth about the truth.I don’t know what to press like you brothers and sisters do to let Lisa know I am talking to her.Welcome !It is great to have you join us,I know we all feel this way.In my humble opinion your search for the real truth is over because you have found it.Brother Kings anointing holy spirit is clearly visable in all his articles,and comments.His book is truly a blessing from Jehovah,real truth,real meat,partial fulfilment of prophecy with reference to knowledge increasing in the final part of the days.And as his book says not to belittle the GB,but Jehovah always sends forth his prophet before bring judgement.I for one look forward to reading your comments,and warm Christian love to you,I would hug you if I could,Im a hugger,and may Jehovah continue to be with all of us here,and we will all keep praying for brother Robert for all his hard work.

    • Volcanic

      Sharon, all you have to do to reply to Lisa, is to hit the ‘reply’ button just underneath her post = https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fa02ab2465629f0eb2b3f0f8307dec2c2e1663810328d3d2041e35cc8b04ec81.jpg
      That picture didn’t come out very well, but I’m sure you get the understanding.
      If you like, I can copy your post & put it under Lisas post so she knows you have replied????
      I’m glad you are a ‘hugger’, we will all be hugging each other for ages when we get through to ‘the other side’ You are welcome to my BBQ in the mountains when all this worldly destruction is over, all you need to bring is a soft rug to sleep out on to protect you from the prickly pine needles.
      I love your avatar, I take it you are from Australia, glad you didn’t use a drop bear photo 🙂 🙂 xoxoxoxo

      • Joel

        Very warm and loving invitation to our new sister Lisa, Volcanic! In truth, I hope we can all find a way to gather together even before the Great Tribulation! That would be super!

      • Sharon

        I will for sure be at the BBQ just give the day and time,I take it you are a sister,as am I,and the reason for the picture,I don’t do photos,I love these little guys,and I am from Ont.Canada.

  • Joel

    Brother King, with all the great brothers and sisters that post on this forum, some for years. . .with their stellar comments . . . sense of humor, and above all—their spiritual maturity and encouragement—isn’t it about time that we all gather together and have an E-Watchman Convention? Or something like that? Can we at least put it out there, shoot some ideas around, see what the others think?

    . . . just wondering . . . not trying to be presumptuousness or haughty; neither disrespectful of you, Brother King, and all your years of fine work and research.

    No. Not at all!

    In all humility, I just think it would be a stellar idea to gather all these great voices of spiritual acumen and encouragement together in one place for ALL to benefit

    I eagerly await your thoughts Brother King.

    Joel

    • Just keep swimming!

      A fun picnic. Joe said he’ll do the BBQ

      • Joel

        Beautiful! Now if we could just convince the others!

        • Daisy

          Daisy wants to come but I will be crying with joy from being with you all. All The Time…
          Crying now just thinking about it :(…my 1st unhappy face here.

          • Joel

            You are beautiful Sister Daisy! And yes, we’d love to have you. We must wait, first, to see what Brother King thinks.

          • Hello sweetheart, hope you’re doing well and putting up a hard fight everyday!!

            • Daisy

              Yes! Doing wonderfully thanks for asking.
              Only fighting I do is with the husband as I am his ‘carer’.
              Dressing & undressing him is such a chore these days, not like it used to be when we weren’t old. Tmi maybe but the health is withstanding very well.
              Never felt happier jonniedab. 🙂

            • Joel

              Now that I am aware of your situation, I will keep you in my prayers Sister Daisy. Just as the Apostle Paul said to the first century Thessalonian Congregation:

              “We always thank God when we mention all of you in our prayers. For we continually remember your faithful work, your loving labor, and your endurance because of your hope.” —1 These. 1:2, 3.

            • Daisy

              Thank you so much Joel.
              Your prayers are very much appreciated.
              I’ve felt all of your prayers so powerfully, the effects are stunning, and I’m so much happier & so comforted even though now the effects of the “therapy” are kicking in & taking its toll.
              I’m concentrating on attaining the peace of God that excels all understanding… No mean feat when the chips are down, but that’s what I’m calling my next challenge…best wishes brother…:)

            • Hang in there or Dearest Daisy, you are constantly in our thoughts and prayers. Sending you warm brotherly love and well wishes! ❤❤❤

            • Joel

              Psalms 133:1
              “Look! How good and how pleasant it is for brothers (and sisters) to dwell together in unity.

              I feel the reality of that scripture every time we all comfort one another on this site.

              Beautiful.

          • Volcanic

            I would LOVE to meet with Daisy, we will cry together in the corner sweetheart. On second thoughts I will prefer to wait until we have all survived what is coming & then meet up, we will all be younger & more beautiful then & have some wonderful stories to tell each other. We also won’t need to worry about visas, expense or short 2 week holiday breaks………….oh, what joy 🙂
            Daisy, I owe you an e-mail my darling, baby is very demanding of my time, pheeeeew, but F goes to the Dr on 16th Sept, until then I’m not thinking about it or I’ll cry xxxxxx Love you xxxx

            • Joel

              Lovely. Heartfelt.

  • Nip It in the Bud

    Amazing….This was exactly the answer to the question I just to Brother Robert King……..amazing! Thank You…..

  • ewatchman

    As a friendly reminder, the forum would be a better place to visit and converse. That’s why I set it up.

    • Joe Dman

      I thought so too. I tried. Looks like you’re just going to have to shut the commenting off and force the transition. Blame it on a watchtower shill.

    • Burt Reynolds

      Yes of course. Sorry.

  • David Koch

    I feel in 1995 when I learned of the association with the U.N. was the most deception,cowardice, Insult that Ive every be exposed to from JW’s. Seeing that printed on the weekly publication my heart was ripped from its foundation. And Then, I had no idea about the legalities of the societies dealings,the collection of the elders lifes wealth,the pedophile and cover up. Thank you Mr. King for that knowledge. Regardless of my connections with members whom I love and feel deep regret for turning my back to them leaving the kingdom halls functions was the only true thing I could do. I felt betrayed and I felt I couldn’t express it to my closest loved ones of the HALL’S. Facing them became so difficult I began screaming in my mind to see them reflect a smig of life to this atrocity of faith, and that was just the bedlum with world leaders. From then ive been wondering, not lost. Exploring concepts, living. Raising a family. Im not perfect and always Jehovah’s spirit has been with me, its like putting the journey of the past 21 years since then in to words in a one quote, like ‘walking through the desert’. The flesh is corruptible and flawed. Even still, we are perfection.
    Jehovah’s spirit has shown me through my own heart that i am corruptible and without wisdom lacking and found wanting and yet loved and not abandoned. You see inspite of beliefs that are currently thought to be the answer or how its suppose to be,they are passing just like the error in us all. We just cant help that were born into imperfection,but its the love you have for Jehovah’s approval that makes up for it. Its in the heart of you, in us.

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