 |
You seem to purport that practically all of the denunciatory prophecies the Society applies to Christendom, should really in turn be applied to them, Jehovah’s "visible organization". Considering the fact that Christendom is a major entity, and does blasphemous things in the name of the "true God" every day, it would seem fitting that some of those denunciatory prophecies in the Bible do indeed apply to Christendom, and not the organization. Which ones could rightfully be applied to Christendom, as the society suggests? Now I assume you will note the ones in Rev., but which other ones do you think would apply strictly to Christendom vs. which ones apply to the visible organization (wtbts)? |
 |
For the most part, the original prophets were directed to speak to and against the house of Israel; there is, therefore, no justification for redirecting those prophecies to any other entity except spiritual Israel. For better or worse, Israel was in a covenant relationship with Jehovah. They didn't just claim to be in a covenant with Jehovah—as the Watchtower has wrongly stated at times—they were in a binding covenant that brought upon them Jehovah's curse of they failed to live up to the terms of the covenant. Spiritual Israel is also in a covenant with Jehovah through Christ. So, there are many overlapping parallels. However, secondarily, all the nations surrounding Israel and Judah at one time or another were denounced by the same prophets. A significant portion of the prophets are directed to Israel's enemies. The reason those nations came under God's judgment had to do with the way they treated—or maltreated—the Israelites during their judgment. For example, after Judah was crushed by Babylon, Jehovah then turned his attention to the nations, saying through Ezekiel: "Therefore prophesy concerning the soil of Israel, and you must say to the mountains and to the hills, to the streambeds and to the valleys, 'This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: "Look! I myself in my zeal and in my rage must speak, for the reason that humiliation by nations is what you have borne." Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, 'I myself have raised my hand in an oath that the nations that you have round about—they themselves will bear their own humiliation.'" Similarly, during the conclusion of the system the nations of the world are to be judged on the basis of how they treat spiritual Israel. And the particular ordering of events should be specifically noted, in that, Israel and Judah were judged first, the same as judgment begins first with the Christian house of God and then proceeds to include the nations. Of all the nations round about Israel, Moab, Ammon and Edom seem to most appropriately symbolize the three main branches of Christendom; namely, Catholicism, Protestantism and Orthodox. The reason for such a relationship is based on the fact that the nations of Moab, Ammon and Edom were directly related to the Israelites; with Moab and Ammon being Lot's two sons and the Edomites being the descendants of Esau—Jacob's twin brother. Jehovah considered the descendants of Esau to be Jacob's brother. (See Obadiah) The Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites and Hebrews shared similar customs and spoke a similar language and were geographic neighbors as well. But, because of religious animosity Moab, Ammon and Edom were always at enmity with Israel. In the same way, the religions of Christendom have a shared heritage with spiritual Israel. We could say that Christendom is an offshoot of true Christianity—making it a distant relative. And indeed many of the customs of Christendom are similar to ours to the extent that they are derived in some measure from the Bible. In that respect you might say we speak a similar language. That's why nominal Christians of Christendom are the most receptive to our message; whereas it is much more difficult for people of pagan background to relate to the Bible. Interestingly, the three nations Edom, Moab and Ammon are used in prophecy long after the original nations ceased to exist. For example, in the prophecy of Daniel in foretelling the conquests of the king of the north during the time of the end, we read: "He will also actually enter into the land of the Decoration, and there will be many lands that will be made to stumble. But these are the ones that will escape out of his hand, Edom and Moab and the main part of the sons of Ammon." Please take note of the precise ordering of events. First, the land of Decoration is invaded by the king of the north while Edom, Moab and Ammon escape. However, afterwards the king of the north goes on a genocidal rampage, which the prophecy describes as the great tribulation. We may assume that Moab, Ammon and Edom do not escape their fate then. That is the same way the judgment went down when Nebuchadnezzar was acting as Jehovah's appointed Executioner. First, Jehovah dealt with wayward Judah and Jerusalem and afterwards the other nations round about came in line for judgment. Joel is another prophetic book that has had no previous fulfillment. Even though the apocalyptic prophecy of Joel is set in a primitive agrarian setting, it actually applies to the time of judgment upon God's house and Armageddon. But in the concluding verses of Joel, the prophet says: "And as regards Edom, a wilderness of desolate waste it will become, because of the violence to the sons of Judah, in whose land they shed innocent blood. But as for Judah, to time indefinite it will be inhabited, and Jerusalem to generation after generation. And I will consider innocent their blood that I had not considered innocent; and Jehovah will be residing in Zion." Moab and Ammon are not mentioned in Joel. However, the pattern is the same. First, Jehovah causes his own people to be afflicted. Then, after a restoration, he judges the persecutors of his people. Because Edom is more prominent than Moab and Ammon, it would appear that Edom represents the most prominent part of Christendom; namely, the Catholic Church. For that reason the oft-overlooked prophecy of Obadiah, which is devoted entirely to Edom's judgment, contains some interesting insights. Although the Watchtower has said over and over that Babylon the Great goes down first, that is not what the Bible indicates. Instead, over and over the pattern is established that Jehovah's nation is judged first and then others are judged afterwards based upon how they treated Christ's brothers during their humiliation. In harmony with that, we read in Obadiah: "And you ought not to watch the sight in the day of your brother, in the day of his misfortune; and you ought not to rejoice at the sons of Judah in the day of their perishing; and you ought not to maintain a big mouth in the day of their distress. You ought not to come into the gate of my people in the day of their disaster. You, even you, ought not to peer at his calamity in the day of his disaster; and you ought not to thrust out a hand upon his wealth in the day of his disaster. And you ought not to stand at the parting of the ways, in order to cut off his escapees; and you ought not to hand over his survivors in the day of distress. For the day of Jehovah against all the nations is near. In the way that you have done, it will be done to you. Your sort of treatment will return upon your own head." Bible students recognize that Jerusalem never again had a king after the Babylonians destroyed the kingdom. So, then, the very last verse of Obadiah apparently has reference to the 144,000 when they stand with Christ on Mount Zion to rule the world: "And saviors will certainly come up onto Mount Zion, in order to judge the mountainous region of Esau; and the kingship must become Jehovah's." Another fascinating aspect of the prophecy of Obadiah is that it seems to harmonize with Revelation that depicts the 8th king turning on Babylon the Great. Obadiah 7-8 says: "The very men in covenant with you have all deceived you. The men at peace with you have prevailed against you. Those eating food with you will place a net under you as one in whom there is no discernment. Will it not be in that day?" is the utterance of Jehovah. It is as if the Vatican is in a covenant of peace with the United Nations. For example, the Vatican is the only religious body that is granted official observer status at the UN. In his annual benediction the Pope even called for a New World Order based on the principles of the United Nations. It would seem that the Catholic hierarchy is oblivious to the fact that powerful Masonic networks have long promoted one world government; and their intention is to destroy Christianity and establish a pagan New World Order. Incredibly, the Vatican's "wise men" are promoting the very agency that God has assigned to destroy them! No wonder Jehovah says of them in Obadiah: "And I shall certainly destroy the wise ones out of Edom, and discernment out of the mountainous region of Esau." To definitively establish the fact that Zion does not represent Christendom, consider the following prophecy in the 36th chapter of Isaiah: "For in the heavens my sword will certainly be drenched. Look! Upon Edom it will descend, and upon the people devoted by me to destruction in justice. Jehovah has a sword; it must be filled with blood; it must be made greasy with the fat, with the blood of young rams and he-goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams. For Jehovah has a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughtering in the land of Edom. And the wild bulls must come down with them, and young bulls with the powerful ones; and their land must be drenched with blood, and their very dust will be made greasy with the fat. For Jehovah has a day of vengeance, a year of retributions for the legal case over Zion." The prophecy above is generally recognized as applying to the actual end of the system. But, if Zion were to represent Christendom, then why would Jehovah hold an accounting and "a year of retributions for the legal case over Zion"? The point is the judgments against Edom, Moab and Ammon are in complete harmony with the fact that God likewise judges Babylon the Great for the violence she perpetrates against God's prophets and holy ones all the way up to and especially during the tribulation. |
|
If Jesus Christ is the archangel Michael then how come in Daniel 10 Michael comes to help Gabriel against the prince of Persia. Daniel then sees Michael, Gabriel and a demon; so why in verse 18 does Daniel also see the son of man? Also, if Jesus is Michael the archangel why does he need Gabriel to strengthen him? |
|
| The Scriptures do not say that Gabriel strengthened Michael. It is the other way around—Michael came to strengthen Gabriel in his fight against the demon prince of Persia. Also, Daniel 10:18 does not say that Daniel saw the son of man. It merely states that the enlightening angel took the form of an earthling man. |
|
Regarding the 144,000, are they only to be "bought from the earth" from among males? Or, are women included, as is currently held be the WTBTS? |
|
| The 144,000 are made up of men and women. Although, the 14th chapter of Revelation refers to the 144,000 as all male, saying of them: "These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins;" elsewhere, though, the Scriptures describe them as the bride of Christ. Paul, of course, explained that there is neither male nor female in Christ. Yet, we humans are most definitely gender-oriented. All earthly creatures, with few exceptions, are either male or female. In fact, we cannot relate very well to sexless creatures. But, since God's angels and the glorified 144,000 are sexless, apparently to accommodate our sensibilities in this area, they are depicted sometimes as males and sometimes as females—as in the case of the bride of Christ. |
|
Do you see any parallels between Moses' striking of the rock to produce water for Israelites and saying that *he* produced it for them and the Society's repetitious drawing of attention to their "faithfulness" and their "discreetness" and how *they* are the ones producing truths and understanding? And if Moses was prohibited from entering the Promised Land for stumbling in this way, is it not reasonable to expect that the Society itself may not be allowed to enter the promised New World? Finally, what lesson or warning is there in all of this for Jehovah's Witnesses? |
|
You are referring to the account in the 20th chapter of Numbers, where we read: So Moses took the rod from before Jehovah, just as he had commanded him. After that Moses and Aaron called the congregation together before the crag, and he proceeded to say to them: "Hear, now, you rebels! Is it from this crag that we shall bring out water for you?" With that Moses lifted his hand up and struck the crag with his rod twice; and much water began to come out, and the assembly and their beasts of burden began to drink. Later Jehovah said to Moses and Aaron: "Because you did not show faith in me to sanctify me before the eyes of the sons of Israel, therefore you will not bring this congregation into the land that I shall certainly give them." Jehovah, in effect, took Moses. Even though Moses was 120 years old he did not expire from the ravages of old age. The Bible account says further: "And Moses was a hundred and twenty years old at his death. His eye had not grown dim, and his vital strength had not fled." While Jehovah was highly displeased with Moses' lack of faith on that one occasion, did God judge Moses to be unfaithful? No, centuries later the Christian apostle, Paul, wrote concerning Moses: "And Moses as an attendant was faithful in all the house of that One as a testimony of the things that were to be spoken afterwards, but Christ was faithful as a Son over the house of that One. We are the house of that One, if we make fast our hold on our freeness of speech and our boasting over the hope firm to the end." Moses, as an attendant to God's house, ought to remind us of the position of Christ's faithful and discreet slave; who was also appointed as an attendant over God's household. In connection with his discussion of the faithful slave in the 12th chapter of Luke, Jesus stated the principle that the one whom people put in charge will have more demanded of him. Accordingly, we may expect Christ to hold an accounting with his faithful slave for his errors. Presently, though, there is nothing in the Watchtower Society's teachings that allow for any such accounting. According to our carefully crafted theocratic mythology, the judgment occurred way back in 1918 and since then the faithful slave has been appointed over all the master's belongings and not just the household of fellow servants. The Watchtower has even speculated that some anointed persons will remain on earth for awhile after Armageddon. In that respect they are like Moses—expecting to enter the Promised Land. That notion, though, is not at all supported by the Bible. On the contrary, there is ample scripture to prove that the entire body of the anointed are killed before Armageddon; as a punishment from God for their errors. In that respect, Like Moses, they will not be allowed entry into the New World along with the great crowd of Armageddon survivors. Interestingly, Moses tried to dissuade Jehovah from his judgment and was sternly rebuked. Deuteronomy 3:25-26 records the exchange between Moses and Jehovah: "Let me pass over, please, and see the good land that is across the Jordan, this good mountainous region and Lebanon." And Jehovah continued to be furious against me on your account and did not listen to me; but Jehovah said to me, 'That is enough of you! Never speak to me further on this matter.' Of course, the prophecies contain similar rebukes directed towards the stewards of God's spiritual house. So, yes, as Bible patterns go, the incident where Moses disrespected Jehovah would appear to have a modern parallel. The 89th Psalm also appears to speak to a future rebuke: "But you—you have cast off and you keep contemning; you have become furious toward your anointed one." |
|
What advice would you give to someone who has associated with JW's for many years and has been going to the meetings less and less but now wants to dedicate themselves and be baptized. Many of the things that you have pointed out in your website have been the reason for my not getting baptized. But when I search for another church for the truth there is nothing out there. I almost feel like the door on Noah's ark is shutting and I'm going to be caught in the flood. Is it too late with all the apostasy going on in the Watchtower or was it never Jehovah's temple? I do agree with the doctrine, but it is the organization I have always had a problem with. If we are to follow in Jesus footsteps where would he lead us now? |
|
If you follow in Jesus' footsteps you will note that Jesus walked the path of a faithful Jew even though at the time the Jewish religious system was filled with corruption and hypocrisy. Yet, Jesus recognized that he had a personal obligation to follow the Law. Jehovah's requirements for salvation have not changed. He has always required his people to demonstrate their faith under various trials and circumstances. Isaiah 7:9 bluntly states: "Unless you people have faith, you will in that case not be of long duration." Just think if you lived in Germany under Nazi tyranny. To be associated with the Bible Students back then might have landed you in a concentration camp. Yet, many Germans willingly took that risk during that bleak period in history. They did so because they had faith in Jehovah. So, the best way to look at these types of challenges is to see them as an opportunity to demonstrate your faith in God—as opposed to blindly following men. If you want to follow in Christ's footsteps, then, you will get baptized—as he did. And like Christ, you will commit yourself to Jehovah, the righteous Judge of all, and you will exercise faith that Jehovah will deal with the bigger issues related to the organization. |
|
What are your thoughts regarding Deut. 31:29? |
|
Deuteronomy 31:29 says: "For I well know that after my death you will without fail act ruinously, and you will certainly turn aside from the way about which I have commanded you; and calamity will be bound to befall you at the close of the days, because you will do what is bad in the eyes of Jehovah so as to offend him by the works of your hands." We might note the similarity to the words of Paul when he told the Ephesian elders: "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." Elsewhere, Paul further prophesied that an apostasy would come first, before Christ's presence; and that a ruinous man of lawlessness would sit as a squatter in the very temple of The God. Rather than supposing that the foretold apostasy took place 1,700-years ago with the advent of Christendom, an in-depth study of the Hebrew prophets would indicate that the apostasy Paul was referring to would similarly occur among Jehovah's Witnesses at the "close of the days"—as Moses stated in connection with the Jewish system. |
|
I read a publication on the Pathways link entitled "Understanding the Memorial". And while I am aware that you follow the WT’s reasoning, that only anointed are to partake of the emblems, this publication, along with my own reasoning, leans the other way to all whom wish to follow Christ as our King and Redeemer partaking of his emblems during the Memorial observation. I know that the WT uses this function as a means to keep count of proclaimed anointed ones. And I have a great deal of respect for your teachings. But I would like to see a more sound scriptural bases to establish this reasoning if it exist. And ask are you certain of this yourself? |
|
The Bible is pretty plain when it states that the eating of Christ's flesh and blood through the ritual of the bread and wine is reserved for those who are in a new covenant through Christ. Jesus told his apostles: Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: "This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf." The new covenant that Jesus spoke about is with the 144,000 who are invited to rule with Christ. That's why on the occasion of instituting the Lord's evening meal Jesus went on to say: "However, you are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel." The new covenant provides for Jehovah to declare Christ's anointed followers to be perfect—provided they follow the faith to the end. The reason they have to be declared perfect is because at their resurrection they are instantaneously transformed into immortal and indestructible spirits. That's what the new covenant accomplishes. In order for any creature to attain immortality, they must have life in themselves. The new covenant provides for that very thing. Please note that having life in oneself is not the same as merely having everlasting life. Jesus said that only Jehovah has life in himself and he granted the Son to have life in himself. ("For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself."—John 5:26) Jesus further stated that he would also impart the gift of having life in themselves to those who truly feed upon his flesh and blood and that if anyone did not eat his flesh and drink his blood that would not have life in themselves. At John 6:53-55 we read: "Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink." However, Jesus went on to say that all of those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice—even those who practiced "vile things." Jesus, of course, was obviously referring to the earthly resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. Now, using our powers of reason, if an unrighteous person who practiced vile things is resurrected by Christ, and presumably many are resurrected who even lived before Christ and so could not symbolically eat his flesh or drink his blood even if they wanted to, how can we say that they have to feed on Christ's flesh and blood beforehand to receive a resurrection? Obviously, they don't. Those who receive an earthly resurrection receive one regardless of whether they recognized Christ or not. Their judgment comes after their resurrection. Reasoning further, if mere unbelievers are resurrected from the memorial tombs by Christ, why do you suppose the other sheep with the hope of inheriting the earth must eat Christ's flesh and drink his blood? Having faith in Christ is not the same as being anointed. Neither does inheriting everlasting life on earth depend upon being in the new covenant. Those who are called into a new covenant have a special assignment that requires that they become like Jesus in every respect. It means that they must give up their earthly life and follow Christ to heaven. Partaking of the bread and wine is the public declaration that a person has been called by Jehovah to that end. |
