Unless You People Have Faith...
Sunday, March 13, 2011 at 5:18AM Permalink 
A continutation of the consideration of the prophecy of IsaiahIn the seventh chapter of Isaiah the kingdom of Judah and Jerusalem are threatened by a coalition of Syria and Israel. The prophet Isaiah is instructed to confront the terrified king of Judea and assure him that Jerusalem would not fall. Instead, within a few years Ephraim (Israel) would altogether cease to exist. God’s words came true when the ongoing Assyrian conquest of the northern kingdom became complete.
But it was in the context of that threat that Jehovah stated through Isaiah: “Unless you people have faith, you will in that case not be of long duration.”
It is noteworthy that the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel faithlessly allied itself with Syria against Judah – their own brothers. The Watchtower’s commentary points out that this was a scheme of the Devil intended to overthrow the throne of David in order to resist Jehovah’s purpose in connection with it. No doubt that is true. Although the king of Judah at the time, Ahaz, was not noted for his faithfulness to God either – being an idolater and faithlessly bribing the king of Assyria to come to his aid; nevertheless, Jehovah simply would not allow his earthly kingdom to be overthrown at that time. However, eventually Jehovah allowed the Babylonian Empire to swallow Judah.
In modern times the various denominations (tribes) of apostate Christendom have been like the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel in allying themselves with political powers for the purpose of resisting or even destroying the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Whenever governmental authorities take action against the Watchtower Society invariably there is behind the scenes clergy involvement. For example, the recent banning of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Moscow is most assuredly the result of the influence of the Russian Orthodox clergy (Vladimir Putin is a Russian Orthodox) – just as the Catholic Church is undoubtedly behind the decade-old scheme in France to disallow the Watchtower Society from having tax-exempt status.
But like faithless Ahaz, the leadership of the Watchtower Society also has a history of compromise with political powers and other acts of faithlessness. (The Watchtower’s secret 10-year partnership with the United Nations is the most egregious.)
But as in the case of Judah, God will not allow his modern institution to be derailed by the follies of faithless men or opposing devils; at least not until his purpose in connection with it is fully accomplished.
Next God calls to all people to devise a scheme against his purpose, saying: “Be injurious, O you peoples, and be shattered to pieces; and give ear, all you in distant parts of the earth! Gird yourselves, and be shattered to pieces! Gird yourselves, and be shattered to pieces! Plan out a scheme, and it will be broken up! Speak any word, and it will not stand, for God is with us!”
Of interest to us today is the fact that the prophecy speaks to “all you in distant parts of the earth.” Whereas, the tiny kingdom of Judah was probably unknown in the distant parts of the earth during the time of Isaiah, the Watchtower Society and Jehovah’s Witnesses are known internationally. The Watchtower has unquestionably published God’s name to the most distant parts of the earth. As an indication of the scope of the work the Watchtower Society is accomplishing, the message of Jehovah’s Witnesses is now published in an astounding 415 languages!
In modern times there is an ongoing scheme being pursued by the elites running the world to eradicate all that is connected with the Renaissance, including the nation-state system and Christianity, and revert to a corporatist-run feudal system administered by the United Nations – the so-called new world order. Ultimately, the Devil’s intention is to use that last kingdom to eradicate Jehovah’s people from the earth.
The Assyrian Empire’s conquest of the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel pictures the coming annihilation of Christendom by the eighth king. As Jehovah’s Witnesses are well aware, when the Assyrian king moved against Jerusalem one of Jehovah’s angels slew 185,000 Assyrians. What does that picture? It finds a parallel with the attack of Gog of Magog and the war of Armageddon.
But regarding the new world order conspiracy and the global genocide certain to be unleashed in the near future, the following verses of Isaiah are most relevant: “You men must not say, ‘A conspiracy!’ respecting all that of which this people keep saying, ‘A conspiracy!’ and the object of their fear you men must not fear, nor must you tremble at it. Jehovah of armies—he is the One whom you should treat as holy, and he should be the object of your fear, and he should be the One causing you to tremble.”
There is no conspiracy that can defeat Jehovah’s purpose. In fact, Jehovah fully sanctions the conspiracy for global government and intends to use the new world order as an instrument for destroying Christendom and all of Babylon the Great, even as Revelation reveals that God is going to put it into the minds of the last kings in order to impel them to carry out their wicked scheme to completion. (See Habakkuk for insight into the conspiracy)
The reason Bible prophecy, such as Isaiah, is relevant today is because God’s purpose to produce a kingdom seed is still a work in progress and the Devil is still opposing the accomplishment of it. But the efforts to date to hinder the work of Jehovah’s Witnesses notwithstanding, we should not suppose that any modern day scheme to stop the work of the Watchtower Society is what the prophecy relates to now. Ultimately, God’s purpose transcends any earthly organization. God intends to bring to birth an exclusive heavenly organization – the New Jerusalem – the very kingdom of God.
But that the aforementioned scheme has a modern application is evident from what is stated at Isaiah 8:14-18: “And he must become as a sacred place; but as a stone to strike against and as a rock over which to stumble to both the houses of Israel, as a trap and as a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them will be certain to stumble and to fall and be broken, and to be snared and caught. Wrap up the attestation, put a seal about the law among my disciples! And I will keep in expectation of Jehovah, who is concealing his face from the house of Jacob, and I will hope in him. Look! I and the children whom Jehovah has given me are as signs and as miracles in Israel from Jehovah of armies, who is residing in Mount Zion.”
As God previously stated in this context, unless his people have faith in him they will not survive. How must this apply to Jehovah’s Witnesses at this point in time?
Interestingly, Paul quoted from the 18th verse in showing that the children whom Jehovah has given to Christ are those who are the adoptive sons of God. Paul went on to explain to the Hebrew Christians that they had approached a heavenly Mount Zion and that the earthly Zion would not remain. The Jewish form of worship had become obsolete.
In this past century and a-half God has seen fit to renew the calling and choosing of “the children”; and he has done so through the agency of the Watchtower Society – it corresponding to earthly Jerusalem, the place where Jehovah has placed his name. But the final phase of God’s purpose involves Jehovah concealing his face from his people – as stated in verse 17. Jehovah’s “concealing his face” will be manifest in the collapse of the Watchtower Society during the tribulation. In that respect the present form of worship – centered on the Watchtower institution – will become obsolete too.
As stated already, it must be pointed out that although Jehovah fought in behalf of Jerusalem when Assyria sought to sack it, that “Jerusalem” does not picture the earthly organization. How so? Because, just as is the case in the prophecy of Gog, the final attack comes after God allows his earthly organization to be laid low, after which God repurchases a faithful remnant. This is what the prophecy of Isaiah is all about. So, the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem prefigures the coming collapse of the Watchtower; whereas, the attempted Assyrian invasion pictures the final assault upon the sealed sons of the kingdom, after they have recovered from God’s disciplinary blow. Because the sealed ones will then be kings of the kingdom any assault upon them will be a direct affront to the heavenly Zion, which will be the trigger for the world-ending war of Armageddon.
In what sense will the children whom Jehovah gives become as signs and miracles? Jesus foretold that during the conclusion of the system of things the sons of the kingdom would shine as brightly as the sun in Jehovah’s kingdom. This is no ordinary affair. Paul referred to the phenomenon as “the revealing of the sons of God.” It will come about when the last of the children are sealed during the tribulation. That is why the next span of verses in Isaiah states:
“And in case they should say to you people: ‘Apply to the spiritistic mediums or to those having a spirit of prediction who are chirping and making utterances in low tones,’ is it not to its God that any people should apply? Should there be application to dead persons in behalf of living persons? To the law and to the attestation! Surely they will keep saying what is according to this statement that will have no light of dawn. And each one will certainly pass through the land hard pressed and hungry; and it must occur that because he is hungry and has made himself feel indignant, he will actually call down evil upon his king and upon his God and will certainly peer upward. And to the earth he will look, and, lo! distress and darkness, obscurity, hard times and gloominess with no brightness.”
When the last of “the children” are sealed the Watchtower will at that point become something uncanny – no longer then serving as God’s mouthpiece on earth. For those who continue look to it for guidance during that time of distress and darkness – in whatever form it might exist in the post-crash world – it will be considered by God as a form of spiritism. And those looking to it for spiritual food will surely go hungry. In reality, Jehovah’s Witnesses who will refuse to accept Christ during his authentic parousia and instead cling to the Watchtower’s 1914 “operation of error” are those described in prophecy who “actually call down evil upon his king and upon his God.”
It is not that any then might actually resort to necromancy, but once “the children” have been begotten they fully come to life, being received into the kingdom of Christ as immortal sharers of the new creation, even though they will still be in the flesh for a short while. (See chapter: The Parousia) At the point they come alive those who are not part of the new creation are considered spiritually dead.
The opening words of the 29th chapter of Isaiah state: “Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the town where David encamped! Add year upon year, you people; let the festivals run the round. And I have to make things tight for Ariel, and there must come to be mourning and lamentation, and she must become to me as the altar hearth of God. And I must encamp on all sides against you, and I must lay siege to you with a palisade and raise up against you siegeworks. And you must become low so that you will speak from the very earth, and as from the dust your saying will sound low. And like a spirit medium your voice must become even from the earth, and from the dust your own saying will chirp.”
The prophecy above likens God’s organization to a spirit medium too, just as in the eighth chapter. (Interestingly, years ago the Society responded to a question from a reader regarding the verse above and they applied to what they refer to as Jehovah’s organization during the tribulation. But in the more recent commentary on Isaiah no such explanation is given.)
But, it should be noted that Jesus foretold that Jerusalem and the holy would be besieged and surrounded by a palisade during the conclusion. So, all of the prophecies point to one thing: The crash of the present theocratic organization!
Just as Jesus foretold many will be stumbled, the modern day “Jerusalem” (The Watchtower Society) will become a stumbling block: “And many among them will be certain to stumble and to fall and be broken, and to be snared and caught.”
No wonder Jehovah emphasized the need to have faith in him and not in the assumed permanence of Jerusalem.
To be continued…
Official website of Watchtower.org
Reader Comments (28)
wow how great is that!!!!! thank e watchman!
e-Watchman,
....."For those who continue look to it for guidance during that time of distress and darkness – in whatever form it might exist in the post-crash world – it will be considered by God as a form of spiritism." ----You went for the gusto on that one! --WOW!
....."Just as Jesus foretold many will be stumbled, the modern day “Jerusalem” (The Watchtower Society) will become a stumbling block: “And many among them will be certain to stumble and to fall and be broken, and to be snared and caught.”
No wonder Jehovah emphasized the need to have faith in him and not in the assumed permanence of Jerusalem."
You nailed it there! Great job Robert! Hang in there.. times are going to get tough and rough for all of us!
Your bro,
KIM
Watchman wrote: “In modern times the various denominations (tribes) of apostate Christendom have been like the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel in allying themselves with political powers for the purpose of resisting or even destroying the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
While it is true that Christendom has taken some pot shots at the Watchtower Society, the Society has vehemently opposed Christendom by dubbing it the most reprehensible part of Babylon the Great. Not only that the Society views Christendom as a modern version of unfaithful Jerusalem, applying all the unfavorable prophecies directed to apostate Jerusalem to Catholicism and Protestantism.
It should also be noted that the various denominations or tribes of apostate Christendom function incoherently. However, they are united by some common beliefs which unite and identify them as belonging to the apostasy that developed after the death of the apostles. So apostasy and rebellion broke out in Christianity just as it did in ancient Jerusalem, and it has not stopped to flourish since its solidification by Constantine in the fourth century.
Since the Watchtower Society later broke away from many traditions and false teachings of the Churches of Christendom, they fittingly began to see their organization as God’s sole channel of communication. This gave them enough confidence to form a theocratic organization, from which they have lavished favorable prophecies on themselves.
Thus Jehovah’s Witnesses often refer to their organization as “the truth” and their belief system as the cramp road and narrow gate to life, while all others are on the broad road that leads to destruction. (Mat 7:13 -14)
It is upon this basis in fact that the Society has built an organization that is by all accounts controlling and self-imposing upon its members, which is every bit as oppressive as its forebear, the city of Jerusalem in the time of Christ and the apostles. It is no wonder that Christ said concerning that city:
Matthew 23:37-38
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her, how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. Look! YOUR house is abandoned to YOU.
Is there a similar judgment awaiting “Jehovah’s terrestrial organization today,” our modern-day house of God or city of Jerusalem?
In my humble opinion, the leaders of the WTBTS are the most reprehensible part of CHRISTENDOM. They have dabbled in the occult, and more than likely are still doing so,they have went down to Eqypt for help,and more than likely are still doing this, and many other vile things?Are they partaking of the table of demons, and the table of Jehovah? It may be that they are noy really as united as they think, in all things that are plainly seen as not of God. Has Jehovah used them? maybe, why he even raised up Cyrus a worshiper of false idols, for the great work of sanctifying.His NAME people!
Mrpeaceable :
There will be no loyalty ex. loyalty to the Party. There will b no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a
defeated enemy"" 1984" George Orwell,
If you have looked up the Freeminds website under "Bethelites stories" you will see the "inside of the H.Q. at
Brooklyn for 2 or 3 decades" .. after reading some of the true life experiences, it becomes obvious that
the Billion dollar corporation, built on slavery, spiritual & mental abuse, 3rd world accommodation & lots of
"nil-by-mouth mealtimes" The "class structure" gives the educated ie doctors, lawyers the prime real estate,
Has Jehovah God used the WTB&TS as e-watchman continues to write, it seems there is a prophecy being
fulfilled and that the Pharisaical structure of the "religion" renders it Jesus' judgement as its victims may remain
nameless & without number - the True GOD will keep His promise "Vengeance is mine-- I will REPAY"
Watchman,
modern day 'Jerusalem' stands for Christianity as a whole, including the WT - Christendom, for short - who will be riding the NWO beast for the first 3 1/2 years of its reign, before it turns on them and stands in a holy place as the very kingdom of God on earth, with which no one will be able to do battle, because the whole world will be following it with admiration.
Then, during the next 3 1/2 years, comprising the great tribulation, God's nominal people 'Jerusalem,' who are still professing Christ - other than those who have already accepted the mark of the beast and transferred their allegiance to it - will receive their judgment, with only a small remnant remaining over, just like the 97.000 captives who survived the 70 C.E. extermination.
The masses of Christians who have sworn allegiance to the beast will be destroyed after the end of the great tribulation by Christ and the glorified holy ones during the battle of Armageddon.
The body of Christ, having received their tribulation during the first 3 1/2 year reign of the beast, for courageously exposing the Christian facade of its riders as blasphemous religious frauds, will succeed in escaping the 3 1/2 year tribulation on 'Jerusalem' [Christianity], and with few exceptions be standing - in the flesh - before the Son of Man when He arrives in power and glory on the clouds of heaven for the start of His 1000 year parousia presence.
All Hebrew prophecy fragments are basically depicting individual aspects and scenarios of the general outline presented above.
Thankyou Elena,
Here is the thing, I know about all of the wicked stuf that has happened ,and is still happening, but if it were not for this group I do not know if I would know the things about the Bible that I now know.I also believe there are many who are doing the very best the can whole hearted in the org,but coz of the mind control it is very hard to get them to look at the history, and present of the misdeeds that are going on this org, also when I began to learn about JWs, I was one of those who had an unusual way of first hearing about them,I would tell you the whole story but it would more than likely identify me, and I now believe this to be dangerous even if one is out of the org.Part of the experience, I was hicthhiking,and I ask God didn't know His name to tell me what He wanted me to do, and within 5 min. one of JWs picked me up and started talking about the Kingdom. I still wonder fron time to time Who really answered this prayer.
PROXy ::
Amazing 'stuff' fellow slave, and was wondering if you were in "deep meditation on the Hebrew prophets' work..
Thank you so much, it ALL makes sense....as KIM says ..WOW...& I can say Wowie, dear brother.
Yes, it does 'OPEN the eyes of the spiritually blind (confused) & hopefully many will "come OUT of her, soon"
what people reading your comments might need to do, is take it sentence by sentence & look at your Bible,
just read one (1) chapter per day , guarantee your prayers will b answered...cheers
Mr.peaceable:;
Yes, there are thousands , tens of thousands even millions ? maybe, who are still trapped in the WTmindset,
& afraid to make that move, due to indoctrination but we are helping and not forgetting our sacrifices in the name
of GOD is His Beloved SON who is our Redeemer...HE is daily taking note of those genuine hearted ones, who
are still trapped by their fears of disobeying "man of lawlessness"....how much courage they need to take action..!!
We are here for them, and never forget our efforts on these forums, are building us up for future events,
even to speak up,, like the prophet, DANIEL ( which is my only son's name)
Our prayers for others and like "incense" and are going up to Heaven, pleasing our Father there., may you
continue in your faithful course.
“The body of Christ, having received their tribulation during the first 3 1/2 year reign of the beast, for courageously exposing the Christian facade of its riders as blasphemous religious frauds, will succeed in escaping the 3 1/2 year tribulation on 'Jerusalem' [Christianity], and with few exceptions be standing - in the flesh - before the Son of Man when He arrives in power and glory on the clouds of heaven for the start of His 1000 year parousia presence.”
The idea that the tribulation will last for a period of seven years is nonsensical. The tribulation will last for a total of 1335 days.
Daniel 12:11-12
“And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. “Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!
The constant feature has to do with Christ’s function as God’s High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary at the golden altar of incense. When this feature is removed the great tribulation will start. John saw in vision the events leading to the removal of the constant feature. This will occur when the “incense vessel” is hurled to the earth.
Revelation 8:3-6
And another angel arrived and stood at the altar, having a golden incense vessel; and a large quantity of incense was given him to offer it with the prayers of all the holy ones upon the golden altar that was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense ascended from the hand of the angel with the prayers of the holy ones before God. But right away the angel took the incense vessel, and he filled it with some of the fire of the altar and hurled it to the earth. And thunders occurred and voices and lightnings and an earthquake. And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to blow them.
During the first four trumpets the composite beast will rise from the sea. It will be empowered for forty-two months. (Rev 13) The Devil will use this governmental wild beast to conquer the holy ones after they have finished prophesying within their allotted 1260 days of preaching in sackcloth. Then as the eighth king of Bible prophecy he will create an image of the beast for everyone to worship under pain of death. This event will separate people into two camps so that there is no one remaining on the fence as it were.
By the 1290th of the tribulation the gavel will come down in terms of who belong to Christ and who doesn’t. So from this point the seven bowls are going to be poured out upon the wicked. The bowls will aligned with the opening of the sixth seal, leading up to Armageddon and the destruction of the entire wicked system of things by the 1335th day, the end of the tribulation.
So the tribulation will not last for a total of seven years. This idea came out of a misinterpretation of the seventy weeks prophecy in Daniel.
Daniel 9:24
“There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.
This prophecy would have come true if the Jews had accepted Christ. So Jesus established a new covenant with his disciples before his execution in the middle of the seventieth week.
I don’t know how else to explain this to Proxy. He just doesn’t get it! Maybe the watchman can be so gracious so as to explain it to him.
Stone:
Hello again, true we have been over these numbers & the Seals relating to the 7trumpets,, its helping a great crowd
of "bystanders" to learn in time to prepare B4 these end time events Stone, so keep plodding along, with Gods
fruitages of the spirit...patience & love.
After the 2 witnesses have finished their work, then the Image of the B east Gov is set up, separating the sheep & goats, so this time will be the "hour of TEST" that Jesus' brothers, Sons of the Kingdom will be spared..
This 30days was the time I was questioning earlier, after the Wild Beast "conquers" the work of the 2 witnesses
in sackcloth.. then Babylon the Gt falls as the Beast turns on her & burns her completely...God's voice (loud voice)
from Heaven "get out of 'her' my people" LAST CALL ..?
On the 1290th day, the "revealing of the sons of God" They are taken up to Heaven as Jesus calls them to "come on up here" for the Marriage of the Lamb when they will receive their new name (white pebble) clothed in radiant
white linen, and sing the NEW SONG ....seated and crowned and prepared for the Great Battle of Armageddon =
45 days to pour the Bowls of Gods anger, after the 7th seal is broken and silence was heard in Heaven.
"Great Battle of Armageddon = 45 days to pour the Bowls of Gods anger, after the 7th seal is broken and silence was heard in Heaven."
Jesus will break the seventh seal after the 1000 years. This is when the silence occurred in heaven and the book or “scroll of life” sealed with seven seals is finally opened, at the time of the “great white throne judgment.” Concerning this event, John wrote:
Revelation 20:11-15
And I saw a great white throne and the one seated on it. From before him the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha'des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. And death and Ha'des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.
Revelation 8:2 starts a new prophecy starting at a point in time immediately before the beginning of the tribulation. This is when the seven angels are getting ready to blow their trumpets. The first four trumpets will line up with the fourth seal; right after “the constant feature,” Christ’s intercessory office is removed at the golden altar of incense in the heavenly sanctuary. When you read about the fourth seal and the trumpets, you will notice those events are coordinated by the same living creature, the one having a face like an eagle. (Read Rev 4:7; 6: 7-8; 8:13)
Revelation 8:2-6
And I saw the seven angels that stand before God, and seven trumpets were given them.
3 And another angel arrived and stood at the altar, having a golden incense vessel; and a large quantity of incense was given him to offer it with the prayers of all the holy ones upon the golden altar that was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense ascended from the hand of the angel with the prayers of the holy ones before God. 5 But right away the angel took the incense vessel, and he filled it with some of the fire of the altar and hurled it to the earth. And thunders occurred and voices and lightnings and an earthquake. 6 And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to blow them.
The sixth seal will line up with the seven bowls after the seven trumpets. Christ’s 1000-year reign starts after the sixth seal, more specifically after the Armageddon war. Then after an elapsed time of ten centuries Jesus will break the seventh and last seal. This is when the scroll of life is finally opened as shown in Rev 20:12.
So the battle of Armageddon and the seven bowls do not occur after the seventh seal is broken. They occur after the sixth seal, but before the seventh seal. It’s like counting on Sesame Street and like singing “one of these things is not like the others.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WhuikFY1Pg&NR=1
Stone,
You wrote:" I don’t know how else to explain this to Proxy. He just doesn’t get it! Maybe the watchman can be so gracious so as to explain it to him." and then you wrote:" It’s like counting on Sesame Street and like singing “one of these things is not like the others.”
The matter is a simple one to get Proxy to listen. That is, no more cookies and milk after study class until he pays attention. Second, no more watching Sesame Street on video or television until he passes a written test! --LOL Come to think about it, a written test may not be such a bad idea for everyone!!
Just kidding Proxy! These posts get monotonous at times and a little humor keeps everyone in check. Even "Stone Walker" and the Force--LOL
You guys take care and have fun! The future is up to Jehovah!
Name withheld.
Name withheld ::
All this relevant information, and he sits "with bible in hand, reading the future to us"
Please tell, how come you find these posts "monotonous" , its easy to complain, but where is your contribution .?
Stone is complying with the request to state the scripture, and explain from God's words, the meaning of these
prophecies, give him some credit for the work he is doing for you & for others who are looking on daily in secret.
How many we are curious to know-----
We love to laugh but not about serious stuff, and you would agree that there is nothing more important for
lovers of life & truth to have these chapters of Revelation revealed, at least on the forum, for discussion.
Personally feel that the tribulation is 7yrs long, and includes the "woman who flees into the wilderness to be
fed 1260 days with wings like an eagle Revelation 12.., and that we are in this time period which started
October 2008 (10-10-2008) which takes us into the next year to the begining of the "Great Trib." part of the
next 1260 days mentioned by Proxy. .
The bible says that knowledge puffs up, and pride comes before a fall"" so we are careful not to blow ourselves
up too much in case we simply explode.. which brings me to the question for Stone:
Who in your humble opinion, is the "Master worker" spoken of in Proverbs 8:22-30 thank you
As you reread the post, perhaps you should stop and think a little bit about your post. The post was in jest. You should chill out a bit. I don't need to "sound my horn" nor do I need to prove anything to any uptight poster such as yourself.
May I speak some honest observations? Many, but not all posters on these scriptural subjects apparently, are "long winded" posters, are borderline fanatical, scripture thumping braggarts with delusions of some secret insight to God's word the Bible. There is also a proven need to be heard or told that they are doing well.
I am not being mean or rude. Just speaking the truth. You, as well as several other "quick to jump and scream foul" type, are part of the problem of WHY the general public shy away from God and anything beneficial.
Now I am sure you will quote some scripture and make a demeaning response to "puff yourself" up and feel that you are doing the Lords work or something".
Go ahead and let me have it for I spoke the truth.
To Elena Maree,
The true God, our universal Creator, is a God of love, and slow to anger, and merciful.
He does desire all of his intelligent creation that has become wayward to repent and get back to his righteous standards and universal laws, however there will come a time when God's long suffering patience does run out.
For the victims who have suffered over many thousands of years and many of them martyrs for the Kingdom of God, demand retribution, not God.
As the souls crying out underneath the alter are asking how long is it going to go on.
Revelation 6
9 And when He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those having been slain for the Word of God, and for the witness which they had.
10 And they cried with a great voice, saying, Until when, holy and true Master, do You not judge and take vengeance for our blood, from those dwelling on the earth? [LITV]
Our Universal Creator, is not a God of vengeance but he is a God of love and in this case love does demand justice for the victims of wrongdoing and evil.
It is the religionists (scribes of Israel, clergy of Christendom, etc) who have made out God to be a God of vengeance.
This is far from the truth.
However the scriptures do show, that "Justice" is one of his qualities in conjunction with his foremost quality of "love" and the other qualities of wisdom and power.
In fact to provide justice is showing love for those who are victims of injustices and evil.
I wish to apologize for my harsh remarks. I was overly blunt in my observations. I apologize and ask for your understanding and forgiveness. I should not have lashed-out as I did. Allow my comments to inform those that need it and to the rest, please do not be offended.
I will no longer participate in this forum. Thank you.
Stone,
I didn't say that the great tribulation on organised Christianity would be 7 years long, but that the chosen ones would be persecuted for 3 1/2 years BEFORE the disgusting thing stands in a holy place;
THEN the great tribulation would actually start, from which the holy ones will successfully escape by fleeing from 'Jerusalem,' [Christianity] ready to be standing before the Son of man when He arrives.
Jesus clearly indicated that the chosen ones would be delivered up to local courts and synagogues, bearing witness against organized Christianity's adulterous support of the incoming NWO kingdom BEFORE the disgusting thing turns on 'Jerusalem' and wipes out its SYNAGOGUES and system of spiritual authority over the masses.
It is during the first 3 1/2 years of the riding of the beast by Christianity - and its steering and taming it to resemble the kingdom of God on earth - that the vast majority of Christians will hand their brothers over to death for not believing in the lie and operation of error by Satan to miraculously mislead mankind during the hour of test.
During the following 3 1/2 years of THE "great tribulation," it will no longer be 'brother handing over brother,' but the whole earth of sealed beast worshippers will seek to hunt down anyone still professing Christ - especially those trying to defend 'Jerusalem,' the organized system of Christianity.
Stone:
When the 7th seal is broken, there was "silence in Heaven" and following that the 7 angels were to blow their
7 trumpets,,,what does this mean ...that the finale has commenced, and therefore how appropriate that AFTER
the 7th seal is broken there would be "silence in Heaven" a PAUSE if you will...after all isnt this the greatest\
tribulation this planet will ever have...Dont know where you get your time frame from sometimes, but
must be that "channel " again.
Futureman:
You must look up your bible reference and find the scripture where it says "Vengeance is MINE I will REPAY,
says Jehovah.
The fact that God is slow to anger --with His peoples, showing his qualities of Justice, Wisdom & Love,
doesnt discount the issue ...where there is injustice and lack of mercy, where there is abusive of power
and serious lack of love all carried out in His NAME of course it would justify the wisdom & love & power
associated with that NAME to "repay" those victims per se... you can quote all the scriptures you like to
those of GOD's peoples who have spent the better part of their lives, worshipping the True God and
suffered for their sacrifices, misled by an apostate religion...and we know its God's TIME to act on their
behalf. btw, are you still going to meetings..? still an active JW ?
“When the 7th seal is broken, there was "silence in Heaven" and following that the 7 angels were to blow their 7 trumpets.”
It's okay to believe that the trumpet judgments will occur after the seventh seal and ignore that Rev 8:2 starts a new prophecy that took John backward in time to the start of the tribulation. It is not our knowledge of Scripture that is going to save us, but our faith in God.
Proxy,
Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week, the week following the 69th week. Therefore, the seventy weeks prophecy is a done deal. It will not be fulfilled upon the Jewish nation. They rejected Christ and in turn God rejected them. This is why Israel has been redefined as “the Israel of God,” consisting of both Jews and gentiles making up the body of Christ in the new covenant. Nonetheless, it’s okay to believe that the 70th week will occur in the future. The fact of the matter is we can believe whatever we want. This has no effect on God. Zero. . . What matters is our faith in him.
Victorius wrote: “Who in your humble opinion, is the "Master worker" spoken of in Proverbs 8:22-30 thank you.”
The master worker in Proverbs refers to God’s wisdom. In John 1:1 it is referred to as the Word. Therefore, “the Word” in John 1:1 was no “a god” (NWT) as though another personage was actually with God in the beginning. If wisdom is Christ in his prehuman existence, then who is understanding or “discernment”?
Proverbs 8:1
Does not wisdom keep calling out, and discernment keep giving forth its voice?
Wisdom, discernment, and understanding are synonymous with God’s word, commandment, attributes, plans and universal laws as things emanating from him.
Psalm 33:8-9
Let all [those of] the earth be in fear of Jehovah.
At him let all the inhabitants of the productive land be frightened.
9 For he himself said, and it came to be;
He himself commanded, and it proceeded to stand so.
Notice that God “himself commanded.” This is in reference to his word or wisdom personified as the master worker in Proverbs 8.
Whether we want to understand it or not, God was by himself when he brought about the original creation.
Isaiah 44:24
This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?
Jesus was begotten in Mary. This means he came into actual existence when he was conceived in Mary by means of the operation of God’s powerful holy spirit. This is in harmony with Gabriel words to Mary and Jesus’ adoptive father, Joseph.
Luke 1:30-33
“Have no fear, Mary, for you have found favor with God; and, look! you will CONCEIVE in your womb and give birth to a son, and you are to call his name Jesus. This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High; and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule as king over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end of his kingdom.”
Matthew 1:20-21
“Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife home, for that which has been BEGOTTEN in her is by holy spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you must call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.
Jesus is the firstborn of the new creation, when he became the messiah upon his baptism in the Jordan River. Years before John completed his gospel, Paul wrote:
Corinthians 5:17-19
Consequently if anyone is in union with Christ, he is a new creation; the old things passed away, look! new things have come into existence. But all things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of the reconciliation, namely, that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and he committed the word of the reconciliation to us.
“New things have come into existence” in Christ. This was possible because Jesus, as a perfect son of God (the last Adam) actuated God’s word or wisdom in his life fulfilling all that was prophesied about him. Therefore, it is through Christ that God is bringing about the new earth and new heaven promised in Scripture.
Paul did not think that Jesus had a prehuman existence anymore than John didn’t. When John said that “the Word became flesh and resided among us,” it is within the context “that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself,” not that Christ previously existed as an angel with God in heaven.
The Trinitarian idea that Christ was begotten from eternity and is therefore part of a triune God is not a biblical teaching. It is wholly pagan in form. Equally pagan in form and origin is the idea that Christ previously existed as an angel.
These two ideas resulted in centuries-long-controversies (The Arian Controversy) between the Church in Rome to the north of the Mediterranean and the Church in Alexandria to the south, resulting in misery and death to countless number of people throughout the Dark Ages.
To Elena Maree,
I believe unfortunately that Bible translations have being altered to make God, a God of vengeance to those that would persecute or attack his people.
This of course is close to the hearts of Jehovah's Witnesses that seem to desire this type of vengeance to come upon this world, because of the way they feel that they have been treated.
Rather than desiring God to destroy this world, as Christians we should be sincerely praying to God, to give this world more time to repent from it's evil ways.
There are a lot of good people out there and a lot of them are not Christians, that does not make them bad people, only misguided.
As the scriptures show that God desire all of us to repent, that is why the end of this system of thing, is delayed, to allow for this repentance.
I believe that the end is not going to come as some Christians think that it will.
The end of this system of things, yes.
The end of those destroying and ruining this world, yes.
But God is merciful, to all the rest, apart from faithful Christians and will be teaching the nations how to benefit themselves.
Am i an active jehovah's Witness?
No, I'm disfellowshiped and categorized by them as apostate.
Am I an active Christian, a follower of Christ?
I try to be.
Am I a sinner?
Unfortunately Yes, miserable man that I am.
Do I desire to do my Creator's will and serve him?
Yes very much so.
Elena wrote: "Don’t know where you get your time frame from sometimes, but must be that "channel" again."
For the most part I use the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, published by the Watchtower. I like the fact that God’s name has been restored to its rightful place in this translation of the Scriptures. As you know the Bible has two channels, the Hebrew and Greek scriptures. Actually, though, it’s all one channel, as “all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching . . . .”
How are things in Australia following the January 2011 flood? Can you share some stories with us as to how people are faring and/or coping from this disaster? Are you okay and are your loved ones okay? No doubt, as we get nearer to the tribulation natural disasters are going to increase in intensity.
However, when disasters come our way, I think they can serve to positively reinforce people’s faith in God. This is because we were made in God’s image. (Read Genesis 1:26-28) So naturally we tend to look up for answers. (Luke 21:28)
It is good to know that God’s original plan for mankind will be fulfilled. When that day comes there will be no more trouble, natural disasters will become nonexistent.
Mark 4:35-41
And on that day, when evening had fallen, [Jesus] said to them: “Let us cross to the other shore.” So, after they had dismissed the crowd, they took him in the boat, just as he was, and there were other boats with him. Now a great violent windstorm broke out, and the waves kept dashing into the boat, so that the boat was close to being swamped. But he was in the stern, sleeping upon a pillow. So they woke him up and said to him: “Teacher, do you not care that we are about to perish?” With that he roused himself and rebuked the wind and said to the sea: “Hush! Be quiet!” And the wind abated, and a great calm set in. So he said to them: “Why are YOU fainthearted? Do YOU not yet have any faith?” But they felt an unusual fear, and they would say to one another: “Who really is this, because even the wind and the sea obey him?”
As for oppression, it too will become nonexistent.
Isaiah 14:3-8
And it must occur in the day when Jehovah gives you rest from your pain and from your agitation and from the hard slavery in which you were made a slave, that you must raise up this proverbial saying against the king of Babylon and say: “How has the one driving [others] to work come to a stop, the oppression come to a stop! Jehovah has broken the rod of the wicked ones, the staff of the ruling ones, the one striking peoples in fury with a stroke incessantly, the one subduing nations in sheer anger with a persecution without restraint. The whole earth has come to rest, has become free of disturbance. People have become cheerful with joyful cries. Even the juniper trees have also rejoiced at you, the cedars of Leb'a•non, [saying,] ‘Ever since you have lain down, no [wood]cutter comes up against us.’
Most certainly, Jesus will prove to be Jehovah’s imperial [wood]cutter when he comes as King of kings and Lord of lords against antitypical Babylon.
Concerning this awe-inspiring event, John wrote:
Revelation 19:11-16
And I saw the heaven opened, and, look! a white horse. And the one seated upon it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. His eyes are a fiery flame, and upon his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, and he is arrayed with an outer garment sprinkled with blood, and the name he is called is The Word of God. Also, the armies that were in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty. And upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.
Stone:
Thanks for your concern, and oing OK not affected by the floods except for the daily concern for the peoples
who are "in the dark" glued to their T.Vs but when disaster strikes and their daily activities are interrupted, no
TV & no job, sometimes no vehicle ,sitting in their muddy shell of their previous lives.....without God.
It is human nature to be concerned with the physical, (flesh) and without the hope from the Bible, little
consolation from the Government of the day, only empty rhetoric. The "biggie" is this, the peoples are left
without food & help for days & weeks without shelter after these disasters, its very heart rendering to
see what those mostly humble peoples in those coastal "fishing communities" in Japan are going through.
So THAT pretty much takes care of another Union = Asian/Pacific Union and are we ready for the NWO,
or are we not, that is the question....?
"Forbearance extends so far until the SILENCE becomes complicit, isnt that true. check out Rense.com
To answer your question, Stone, negative dear boy, ...even tho mankind is 'made in God's image' still
flesh & blood and HOW are they going to 'seek HIM' in their wretched state ..?
Btw do you take the odd peak into the 'Revelation Climax' book ..just wondering as think I will do it, now
re":I don’t know how else to explain this to Proxy. He just doesn’t get it! Maybe the watchman can be so gracious so as to explain it to him".
Well I never believed in the 7 year bit either, but only because I was relying on the input of others. Maybe the Watchman could disect it for us in an article soon.