2012 - The Great Doomsday Deception
Tuesday, April 19, 2011 at 12:32PM 
Article originally published in Nov, 2009
Are you ready? Ready for the disaster that is predicted to be unleashed on December 21, 2012?
No doubt you have heard of 2012, but what is the significance of that date? There is no question about it; the attention being focused on the year 2012 is nothing short of a cultural phenomenon. But how did it all get started and what exactly is supposed to take place in 2012? Is it all Hollywood hype or is there more to it than that? (Official 2012 movie site)
The 2012 craze is based upon the so-called Long Count Mayan calendar, which cycle ends on December 21, 2012. (Wikipedia has an informative presentation on the topic.)
Supposedly that date corresponds with the alignment of the earth with the plane of the equator of our local Milky Way galaxy, as viewed from the earth. And interpretations of Babylonian cuneiform writings supposedly tell of the existence of another planet in our solar system, Nibiru, also dubbed planet X, which is due to make an appearance in the year, you guessed it - 2012.
These cosmic events are supposed to create all kinds of havoc upon the earth, such as the shift of the magnetic poles and enormous eruptions of the sun. And thrown into the 2012 apocalypse stew are a mix of vague predictions from the soothsayer, Nostradamus, anticipated visitations from extra-terrestrials, and of course, fantastic end-times interpretations of Revelation. And new agers believe that 2012 will magically bring in an era of enlightenment.
While there is no doubt that moviemakers and booksellers are cashing in and helping to hype the 2012 hysteria, the true significance of the focus on that date may be found in the words of Jesus. It is true that Jesus said no one knows the day or the hour, however, Jesus did say that his return would be marked by certain events.
Most people who consider themselves Christians are familiar with the so-called signs of the end. Specifically, Jesus said that there would be wars, pestilences, food shortages and earthquakes. (See Matthew chapter 24 and Luke chapter 21.) But the most significant feature of the sign that Jesus presented is often overlooked. And what is that? The most notable characteristic of Jesus’ prophecy has to do with the presence of false christs and false prophets. Above all the earth-shaking events Jesus foretold would accompany his presence, Christ emphasized that a great deception would be in operation. Underscoring the thoroughness of the deception Jesus stated that if it were possible even the chosen ones would be deceived and he specifically issued a warning saying: “Look! I have forewarned you.”
Although Jesus did describe apocalyptic heavenly phenomenon, such as the sun going dark, the moon turning to blood and the stars falling from heaven, these are not to be taken literally. How can we be sure? Because the Jesus was basically borrowing phraseology from the Hebrew prophecies; many of which, such as Isaiah, Joel, and Amos, spoke of the very same phenomena occurring in connection with the destruction of Israel and later Judah and the sudden overthrow of Babylon. In each instance the destruction came at the hands of a literal human army. Jehovah simply used expressions to show the completeness of the destructive work. From the standpoint of those who experienced the conquest it would seem as if the sun, moon and stars had gone dark. People today use similar expressions. For example, the Dark Ages.
The prophecy of Daniel refers to “the time of the end,” which is the same thing as the conclusion of the system - as the New World Translation phrases the Greek word syntelia. According to Daniel the time of the end is initiated, not by any sort of galactic alignment or a mysterious planet crashing into the earth, but by a great war.
The victor of that future war is called the king of the north in the 11th chapter of Daniel and the king fierce in countenance in the eighth chapter. According to the prophet Daniel the final war will accompany the coming of Christ and the victorious king will cause deception to succeed to the extent that he will throw truth to the earth and trample upon the chosen ones of God. But with the world being ruled over by the one whom Jesus called "the father of the lie," it should not come as any surprise that Satan will ultimately mislead his world into destruction.
(I have identified the king of the north with the formal British Empire of yesteryear, which has morphed into the present monetary empire headquartered in the City of London. See the chapter London-Satan’s Throne in the book, Jehovah Himself Has Become King)
Presently, the world is gripped by the collapse of the global financial system. It has been staved off temporarily through extraordinary, multi-trillion-dollar money printing operations by central banks, which at some point will inevitably ignite a hyperinflationary firestorm. The coming war will determine who controls the post-crash world.
The stage is now set for the conclusion. No doubt, 2012 will be one aspect of the great deception to come. The coven of financiers, whose money system is ending, pretty much own the media. Perhaps reminiscent of the great radio hoax of 1938, in which listeners were duped into believing that aliens were invading the earth, during a time of great confusion and fear, the tabloid-reading, TV-brainwashed masses will be induced to believe even more lies. The nonsense connected with 2012 is certain to be one of them.
And it is also likely that just as Satan evidently caused the "star" to appear after the birth of Jesus in order to guide the astrologers from the East, causing the "star" to hover right above the house where Jesus and his parents were staying at the time, it is quite likely that the demons will create visual effects to deceive people into thinking the earth is being invaded by space aliens. Jesus said great signs will appear in heaven.
I highly recommend this well-produced You Tube video. Be sure to watch the second part as well.
Additional reading: National Geographic debunks myths surrounding 2012
Reader Comments (34)
December 21? Why that's four days before Christmas. You mean God is going to spoil Christmas for all of us?
Oh My! (Just a little sarcasm on my part. Speaking as those who believe in Christmas.)
Great article and information Watchman. Keep up the good work.
2012 ?
The mayan theory has nothing to do with God's Kingdom !
It only could distract someones' trusting in Bible's prophecies !
The Bible gives an importance to 2012 :
according to Pharaoh dreams ,
-- there were "seven periods/years of PLENTY"
followed by
-- others "seven periods/years of FAMINE"
What's the meaning for the "latter days" ??
THAT MEANS that over God's people will pass firstly
-- "seven periods of plenty" which proved to be long 70 years ... 1872 -- 1942 ;
followed by
-- "seven periods of famine" lasting 70 years .. 1942 -- 2012 .
During the last 70 years , the Man Of Lawlessness is reigning in Temple ,
so , in 2012 his reigning WILL COME TO ITS END !
Then are to be finished the "seven times of gentiles" who trample the Temple .
imediately after 2012 Jehovah will fulfil His own word toward His People , as prophetised/ Jeremiah 29:
10. For thus saith Jehovah, After seventy years are accomplished for Babylon, I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.
11. For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith Jehovah, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you hope in your latter end.
12. And ye shall call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
13. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
14. And I will be found of you, saith Jehovah, and I will turn again your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places wither I have driven you, saith Jehovah; and I will bring you again unto the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.
Be happy all of you whose desire is Jehovah's Name be Halloved/Sanctified !
rus virgil.
I have been a reader of yours since 2001 and have really enjoyed most of what you write and your insights, I do however, feel compelled to point out that you may want to examine yoursel as you tend to come across as spiritualy drunk. It boggles my mind how you put yourself in the class of prophets and accept that responsibility at times, then you abandon your site and all your followers, yes followers because I'm sure I am not alone in that I check your website constantly because there is something that keeps drawing me back, now all of a sudden youre back and have excuses about being human and this and that, well the fact is you just left, you just left and you return with a little attitude, a little attitude that comes across more often in your writings now, I hope that you are able to go back to how you used to be, try and remember Moses's example, remember he messed up at the end and got to see the beautiful land but not enter it yet he led all those people to the beautiful land, pray that you keep a level head and that if you are gonna try and take on that responsibility yet again that you can handle your special gift a little better. i look forward to reading more now that you have decided to come back.
So the lesson for today, and everyday, is: Robert King is right, and everybody else is wrong - again.
You say that previous fulfillments of prophesies did not literally involve celestial phenomena (stars falling, etc) which you use to disbar the predicted 2012 celestial events as being related to these prophesies. In other words you are saying "Possible Celestial Phenomena relating to 2012 can not be the fulfillment of Jesus words because previous fulfillments did not involve literal celestial phenomena, so neither will the final fulfillment.
To restate, you are are claiming that the final fulfillment of Jesus words regarding 'stars falling' and the 'sun darkened' etc will definitely not have a literal component. There will be no celestial phenomena?
You can't have it both ways. Either it may have a literal fulfillment, in which case 2012 celestial phenomena MAY relate to that fulfillment, or it definitely does not have a literal fulfillment, as you suggest, and the true final fulfillment will not be as spectacular as previously imagined.
That's quite a bold claim. 'Attitude' indeed.
The world has its deception, and we have ours. For example, as part of our fundamental belief as Jehovah’s Witnesses, we believe that as an organization we will survive the end of this system of things, at least that’s what I’ve heard from the elders in the congregation. In fact, the leadership of the Watchtower feels confident that we are prepared as an organization to form the nucleus of the new earth society, after the storm clouds of Armageddon have dissipated.
We believe that the organization as a whole will thus be protected during this all-encompassing battle that will usher in Christ’s Millennial Kingdom. Thus the organization itself is compared to Noah’s Ark, and it is reasoned that anyone outside its enclave is doomed to destruction, as was the case during the deluge that swept the world in Noah’s days.
However, once the great tribulation begins, our faith in God and his Son will be the decisive factor for responding positively to God’s mercy in connection with his incoming Kingdom. Jehovah himself will be our refuge, not the inner sanctum of our places of worship. --See Joel 3:16; John 4:21-26; Isaiah 28:16; Romans 9:33; 10:11; 1Peter 2:6; Galatians 3:11; Habakkuk 2:4; Hebrews 10:38; Revelation 13:9-10.
if that's true,if the end of this system of things ended in the year 2012?then lot of people in the world better get it together with jehovah starting right now.
May I recommend the reading of a number of stimulating Google articles? They are "The Newest Pretrib Calendar," "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," "Edward Irving in Unnerving," "America's Pretrib Rapture Traffickers," and "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" - all the creation of journalist/historian Dave MacPherson who has focused for more than 40 years on the origin and earliest development of pretribulation rapture/dispensationalism. I noted also his recent item labeled "Famous Rapture Watchers - Addendum" which includes quotes from a number of leading theologians and church historians including eminent theologian Rev. Dr. Francis Nigel Lee who has eleven earned doctorates. MacPherson's most important nonfiction work, for those interested in his discoveries on both sides of the Atlantic, is his 300-page, highly endorsed work entitled "The Rapture Plot" which has polarized large sections of American evangelicalism. All most interesting, to be sure. Karl
I know you may call me another Russel or something, but I am just showing what I've found. I am very amazed by what seems to be an uprising inside and outside of the Jehovah's Witness religion against the Governing Body and Watchtower Corporation.
It seems that all the scriptures about Babylon and the apostasy apply to them today. But check these two things out. Before the presidency of Nathan H. Knorr the WT and even Rutherford preached against disfellowshipping, and Rutherford even said it was a tool of Satan used by the Catholic Church to silence people from standing up for the truth. There was much more freedom of conscience among the Bible Students in the earlier days, especially before Rutherford, people were not labeled "apostate" for merely having a difference in opinion. I know that may be hard to believe, but please look this up on the internet and dig deeper than just the sites that are only showing the dirt on the Bible Students. So to me, the Witnesses were officially lead into captivity to "Babylon" when Knorr became president in 1942.
Well Daniel 9:2 says that Israel was held in captivity in Babylon for 70 years. Do the math, if indeed it was 1942 that the Witnesses became captive, and I think that the facts show this, then the release date for spiritual "Jews" and the destruction of "Babylon", the "Governing Body", and maybe the WT Corporation", would be 2012.
Here is the second time scale I will give you. Most of us have totally discarded the 1914 date as a false prophecy, but let me help breath new life into it. Russell and others get the "gentile times" notion from the book of Daniel chapter 4. Daniel talks about a tree that is chopped down and is banded with iron and copper for 7 times (or years), and after the seven years the bands are taken off and the tree is allowed to start growing again. Jewish years are 360 days as can be seen at Revelation 12: 6, 14, and if you add 360 times 7 you get 2,520 years, thus arriving at 1914 AD from 607 BC.
Well what Russell and others didn't point out is that after 6 years on the Jewish calender they added an extra 30 day month to the year so that their years stayed in line with the solstices and equinoxes ( so you don't have summer when you should be having winter), so if you add that 30 day month, you get 2,550 years.( An example of a 390 day year can be found at Ezekiel 4:5). Well the date 539 or 538 is when Cyrus released the Jews from Babylon after he conquered the empire, and this date is confirmed from "secular" records. Actually, if you go back in time 70 years from the release of the Jews from Babylon you arrive at or around 607 BCE. I have read that although the city of Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BCE (Jerusalem was actually destroyed in 586 BC) some went into captivity at this time to put pressure on Judah to submit to Babylon. But if you start to count the 7 Gentile Times from 538 BC and add that extra 30 day month, you also arrive at 2012.
This will take research on your part, but Russell NEVER said that the world would end in 1914. It's true, please check what I have said. Instead he said that their would be a time of trouble as foretold in Dan. 12:1 and that out of a state of revolution and anarchy God would establish Kingdom rule on earth.To quote Russell from his book, "The Battle of Armegeddon", he writes, "When the Prophet Daniel inquired concerning the meaning of his vision, the angel replied, “Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are closed up and sealed till the Time of the End”—not the end of the world, but the end of the Age—the end of this Dispensation. “The earth abideth forever.”—Eccl. 1:4." Russell did however expect the Kingdom to establish it's rule in a short period of time, maybe within 10 years after 1914, but he was never dogmatic about how long it would take.
Really, 1914 WAS the beginning of a time of trouble, and what's striking is that if you apply the 30 days to the gentile times from 607 BC, you end up at the end of WW2 1944. It was indeed a 30 year time of trouble, 2 world wars and a great depression. After WW2 under Nathan Knorr the WT began a very intensive world wide preaching campaign about paradise earth. And although they are guilty of gross error (like banning blood transfusions, disfellowshipping, organ transplants, ect. thus incurring bloodguilt) and indeed held God's people in spiritual captivity, they spread the word of the Kingdom and the earthly paradise all over the earth. It was at this moment that it seems the bands had been broken off the stump in Daniel chapter 4 and the sprout of the tree began to grow, but as in Jesus illustration at Matthew chapter 13 there were two types of growth. Both weeds and wheat, an evil slave and a faithful slave. Matthew 24:45-51
The Jehovah's Witnesses as I can see were the only group claiming the name Jehovah in such a large way in our day. Also the only group that basically put the old covenant back into effect complete with an earthly high priest class, bodies of older men, and harsh punishment for disobeying the Law. Instead of literally stoning sinners to death, they cut them off from the congregation, including their own family members. Although claiming to be spiritual Israel and Christ brothers, they actually resemble fleshly Israel much more. I say even more than the literal nation of Israel today, who superstitiously refrain from saying the name Jehovah for fear of being damned. By giving the Law power again they inadvertently set up a "tutor leading to the Christ", but now that "the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor". Galations 3:24, 25
There is a parallel between Jesus day and ours. The Scribes and Pharisees claimed to represent Jehovah, and no doubt took pride in being the only nation that served the true God. The same can be said about the Governing Body and many elders. Just like the Pharisees, they scrupulously abide by the law, even abstaining from microscopic blood fractions, not toasting, making extreme bedroom laws not found in the Bible, 'binding up heavy loads and putting them upon the shoulders of men', 'giving the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but disregarding the weightier matters of the Law, namely, Justice, and mercy and faithfulness.' Matthew 23:4,23 They 'swallow the gnat, but gulp down the camel' letting people die by abstaining from blood transfusions to show that they view life as sacred which is represented by the blood!!! Really, I could go on and on. Just read Matthew chapter 23, you will see the parallels.
Before I write a book let me make my point. The harvest, the separation of the weeds from the wheat, the exposing of the man of lawlessness, the fall of babylon, and the release of God's people from Babylon the Great seems to be in progress right now. Matt. 13; 2 Thessalonians 2; Revelation 18 The good news about this harvest is that they no longer have the power to actually kill us for standing up for love, truth, and freedom. Jesus and the apostles died for truth and freedom, the least we can do is risk losing our family and friends. It may be hard, but I think that our families and friends will follow suit this time around.
Investment Property in Florida - Daytona Beach, Jacksonville and Destin
Moving north in our search for investment property in Florida, let's take a look at the Daytona Beach area.
Its going to be interesting cause something is definately going
Now many people are saying May 21 is the end. They've spent millions of dollars all over the US for billboards claiming May 21 is the day of Christ return. Regardless of the God debate, I think we can all agree that setting these dates only undermines Christianity's position. Stuff like this gives people like me something to make fun of. It makes religion look retarded. "Normal" people (whatever that means), see this nonsense and think... "Wow... what a bunch of lunatics." It's no wonder people are becoming more and more disillusioned with organized religion. Doesn't matter if there is a "right one", what matters is what the wrong ones speak to the rest of the world.
Good article Robert! People must use discernment when faced with all of the propaganda on the internet.
Do we have a voice of reason in the wilderness? Anzwertree makes some very valid points!
Like I have said before, each person must Cut their own path to GOD through his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. IF you are just hanging around for handouts and leadership from "organized" religion, that train is going nowhere!
Those with knowledge and insight will share what they can and those that have a thirst for truth, will recognize what is offered to them and they themselves, will drink and grow and prosper. "--KIM
KIM
Watchman, good article.
There is another date, along with the May21, "God's Judgement" that is, October 21, 2011 which correlates with the
"feast of Ingathering" and this month is a Biblical month for sure, so maybe the Harvest of the wheat & the weeds will
conclude at this time.
Anzertree, do not make riducule of another website whilst continue to disbelieve in the True God you have learned about.
This is N OT a religion, with a congregation in the millions as the WTB&TS claims (figures are fudged for obvious reasons) but a website on the Internet. Who cares if someone is "fudging" a couple of dates, as opposed to how many decades of false prophecy, lying interpretations that con tinue to mislead the masses of trusting JWs into a PIT.
The irony remains, that Holy Spirit is poured out on BELIEVERS wherever they are on the earth, and many are
fulfilling JOEL's prophecy at this time, just how many , no one on earth knows,and it doesnt belong to them to know
This is GOD's BUSINESS and putting a figure on the "great crowd" is just another huge blunder from the WT Borg.
But am so glad that you've revealed to us, that youre on these blogs "for the fun of it" to ridicule.
Elena maree,
Hello! Hope life is getting better for you.
Don't let Anzwertree get to you. He is a person that has a spark of goodness inside but he is surrounded by a bunch of "lost" enablers which put more validity and faith into the limited knowledge of humankind than into GOD. They will eventually reap what they sow. What a terrible thing to live life without the peace and love from GOD? I can see where people like this become bitter and wish to try to prove a point or position without the full knowledge or experience that those who have come to know the Glory and Love of GOD. --But, I do not want to become presumptuous on this matter. There are variables to consider, etc. I think you know what I mean.
Anyway, I do hope "downunder" is starting to heal and repair itself. Keep in touch and PM me.
KIM
A few Random Thoughts Cruising MY Grey Matter >> Yes, I made it up. --ENJOY!
After careful contemplation and a heated discussion with the best scientists in the country, it has been determined that the year 2013 will follow after the year 2012. No further information will be released. --LOL
Have a cup of coffee, tea, glass of wine or a cold beer. --that warm beer is an acquired taste. For at any time we could face destruction or life. I choose life and will fight, kick and scream to live and not give in to the "end of the world" group.
I do find much of the information surrounding 2012 and beyond to be fascinating, but it is best to take each day as it comes and ask Jehovah to direct your footsteps!
Be good Brothers and Sisters, we need each other more than you know!
KIM
Watchman,
I think you should stick with your original assumption, the monetary global collapse to signify the oncoming tribulation. Not stars aligning themselves with others on Dec. 21st and the Mayan calender.
Here is a more accurate forecast for what to expect. If you scroll down to the first paragraph, the date set for hyperinflation was moved back from 2018 to much closer 2014. Ironically, the one hundred year anniversary of Jesus' presence LOL.
http://www.shadowstats.com/article/hyperinflation-special-report-2011
It does appear that the controlers have something in mind,look at the Denver airport,dedicated by some masons . There are pictures of lizards coming out of suitcases, what appear to be lizards and Mayan people with ak47s,.. Its very possible. Its all numbers to them, and they have dates for certain things to happen and, they force their pupets to keep them!, and the technology that they have is unbelieveable!,Just like those living in earlier days who were amazed at the new inventions coming out, We may feel see and or hear somethings, and not know how who why or where.I suppose that it may even be possible to fuse hitech with demonic influences to do who knows what.
One thing that they have not figured out, and may even be fearful of, is faith, Try as hard as we can, and I do believe when the time comes we will have the power that is needed,, So if the gifts of the Spirit are to return, who knows what we will do,
Anzertree, do not make riducule of another website whilst continue to disbelieve in the True God you have learned about. This is NOT a religion, with a congregation in the millions as the WTB&TS claims (figures are fudged for obvious reasons) but a website on the Internet.
--------
The Watchtower is also a website on the Internet. Does it really matter how many people believe something? Sure, anyone can make a website. Even the Watchtower has one. There's a flat earth society, too -- and the list goes on. Here's the bottom line. It doesn't matter how many or how few people believe something. It doesn't matter if they have tax exempt status.
No amount of "belief" makes something true. Lots of people believed the earth was flat. Some people still do. They are wrong. My point is that religiously inspired beliefs are associated by the general public with nonsense like May 21, 1975, 1914, 2012, and so on. We can all point fingers at a few idiots that have been dopped. But let us not forget that we too were once the ignorant ones. As stupid as this stuff may seem to us, there are people that believe it is true.
Who cares if someone is "fudging" a couple of dates, as opposed to how many decades of false prophecy, lying interpretations that con tinue to mislead the masses of trusting JWs into a PIT.
-----------
Because these fudged dates -- making up the vast majority of predictions -- make all religious philosophies appears childish. I'm not sure what the rest of your sentence means, though. I think you're trying to say too much at once. Please break up your thoughts into separate sentences. False prophecies, lying, trusting JWs into a pit? Yeah, I will need more clarification on that one.
The irony remains, that Holy Spirit is poured out on BELIEVERS
-----------
Why? I've never understood the whole belief based reward system. It makes no sense. What is honorable about holding beliefs just because you don't like the penalty of not holding them? Believing something because I'm afraid of the consequences of not believing isn't an expression of honesty. It's like someone pointing a gun to my head and saying "Tell me you love me or I will pull the trigger." Sure, I'd say it, but I wouldn't mean it. Looks like a God would know I was putting on a show to inherit his reward. If that's the kind of hypocrisy God favors, you can keep him.
But am so glad that you've revealed to us, that youre on these blogs "for the fun of it" to ridicule.
----------
Sure, no problem.
Anzwertree,
You state "But let us not forget that we too were once the ignorant ones." Apparently YOU STILL ARE! --LOL
You haven't learned but you and your cohorts blaspheme the Holy Spirit in your words, actions and in your heart.
But not to worry, as sure as you do not believe in God, he does not believe in you. As you grow, you will know.
A Spirit.
That's right. Asking questions and using your brain to filter out inaccurate and misleading information offends God's holy spirit. That makes a lot of sense. Could you point out exactly what I've written that is blasphemous and why? Go ahead and highlight that out for me.
Everything I've written is right here. The whole world can see everything I've typed. Unless you're counting my videos, too. In that case, they too are also available on Youtube. How insecure would a God have to be to actually give a flying-dump truck over what I do or say? What am I to a God? A tiny insignificant ant. Yet I can offend God?! Nonsense. If I can offend God, he takes himself way too seriously. When was the last time you were offended by a worm?
But then, you already know all of this, right? That's why you have to say something insulting to me every time I say something here. It is obviously a desperate attempt to elevate your weak position by demeaning my character. You don't attack my arguments. You instead attack my character. It's painfully obvious what you're doing. You are the only one that doesn't notice. I have not directed any insults on this thread to anybody in particular. Of course, you have cultivated this childish black and white -- us vs them mentality. It's sad people still live their lives like this. I'm not in your club, therefore I am the bad guy. And yet I am the so called "ignorant" one? Perhaps I am, and maybe this will help, too. How does the old scripture go? "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
So, you reveal a deep rooted psychological problem. What is the matter? didn't your parents pay enough attention to you as a boy? How sad you have to attack what is good and true to feel empowered. Humble yourself before God and live. Stop your childish acts. Talk to your parents while you still have time.
anzwertree,
Just take your medication and relax. Some people are not meant to know God. You want to but you are afraid that you will be hurt. Don't worry, we feel sorry for your kind. Good luck!
That's obviously the most intelligent thing to do, right? We should shut off our critical thinking faculties and humble ourselves. Have you ever really stopped to think about what you're actually suggesting with this reasoning? What are you really fighting against? Reason? Logic? Skepticism? It's not only because I'm an atheist is it?
You're on a constantly defensive position -- many of you. Why? All questions are taken with hostility. It's quite amusing, and I think I know why you act this way towards me. Some might say it reflects the weakness of your beliefs, but there is more to it than that. You are afraid of what I have to say. You are afraid of my questions. If I'm not your enemy, then I might be right.
You are afraid your God might not exist. It's painfully obvious to me because I was once a believer too. I know how strong the God delusion can be on the mind. Maybe there is a God, but I'm afraid the God you think you know is a work of fiction, and your defensive us verses them mentality only makes that fact more painfully obvious.
I must be the enemy. I must be the enemy. I cannot have anything good to say. I must be wrong. I must be wrong about everything. Because if I'm right then none of us have the truth. You're afraid the answers you have will fall apart under scrutiny. That's why so many people stop asking questions. They are afraid of the answers. They are afraid of not knowing. You have likely thought about these questions before and banished them before freeing yourself from its bondage. There is comfort with uncertainty. I am probably no smarter or stronger than anyone else here. The only difference between us is that I have embraced uncertainty, while most other prefer to embrace ignorance. Truths are not always pleasant. And thus, many people are not ready for the red pill.
You guys are priceless, though. Thanks for all the great material. No hard feelings. Take care and happy trails
Where is E-watchman or Jinnvisible or any other member of this forum? Is there a reply for Anzwertree?
Anzwertree,
I took the time to read ur posts. it's apparent that u feel urself superior to anyone who has a different belief than u. How about leave them alone swallowing in their own ignorance and stupidity! While u can go about ur own sublimer stuffs. They don't deserve ur wasting a slit sec. of ur thoughts. May I suggest ur taking up philosophy, metaphysics or both? From my experience, they love to debate on questions like "What comes first, the chicken or the egg?" or "What is the sound of 1 hand clapping?" U get my drift. May I make another suggestion. I apologize for mentioning it here, but u know this life is it for u, so enjoy it the best pleasant way u can, but please as a favor refrain from having fun at other expenses.
imshocked
AnzwerTree,
Just a quick question. I hope u don't mind. I'm kinda curious if ur name AnzwerTree has anything to do with the biblical tree of the knowledge of good and bad? Thank u in advance
Thanks for the question. Anzwertree is an oxymoron. As you likely already know, I'm an ex JW turned atheist. Lots of people assume that means I "believe" there are no gods, but there's a difference between not believing in any of the gods I've heard about thus far and actively believing there are no gods. You can say I have embraced uncertainty. There are very few absolute answers in this world. Answers do not and cannot grow on trees, even if they appear beautiful. And thus comes the meaning of my name -- Anzwertree.
None of us have all the answers, and those that think they do are only fooling themselves. I do not think I am superior to anyone. Not sure where you would get that. The hostility in this room is not from me. I haven't directed any insults at anyone, but the so called "Christians" in here think it's a good thing. Maybe God likes jerks? Go ahead and read the first thing I wrote here. Was it offensive in anyway? Did I curse or swear? Did I call out individual commenters to insult them? Did I say anyone was wrong? No. I have said no such thing. Did you guys react childishly? Yes. Is there anything I could have said to have a civilized conversation without the childish remarks I've been subjected to here? Probably not. So who is really expressing the characteristics of superiority here? It hasn't been me. But then, I've come to expect that from religious people.
Dear AnzwerTree,
If we all look deep down inside of of, we know who God is.
If we really study creation, we know who God is.
In fact his very own spirit (life force) is activated in each and everyone of us.
This spirit is crying out to be reconnected with the source of it's origin, yes our Universal Creator, and God, and our Heavenly Father.
The question is : Do we want to reconnect With God through his exalted Son and God's Holy Spirit?
AnzwerTree,
Thank u for ur answer. I appreciate it very much.
The last post made it the 2nd time u mentioned that u've embraced uncertainty as the position u take when it comes to the question of the existence of God. Most people'd rather embrace certainty, and so in my eye, ur in a class of ur own (no mocking intended) because that's a very uncommon position to take. Do u know of anyone else who share ur stand? I'm confused. What kind of an atheist are u? Could u differentiate urself from that of an agnostic? How did u arrive at ur current belief system? Will u change ur stand if some of the stuffs E-Watchman wrote in his book JHHBK came true?
Thank u AnzwerTree.
Imshocked
Also, AnzwerTree, what do u make of the historical Jesus? Do u think he once walked this earth? If u don't believe in any God u've heard of, what 's ur opinion about the bible?
Anyway, I don't hold anyone responsible for their own opinions
Of course, I'd love to believe there's a caring God somewhere planning to correct this unbelievably cruel world. And yes, you are correct. I am a minority. Uncertainty is a fearful thing for most people. In most cases we are so desperate for certain answers that we will believe almost anything. That might be very comforting. In fact, I believe theism can be very very comforting. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it is true. Just because you accept something with certainty doesn't mean it is true. That is the danger of self-assurance. When we already believe we have the answers, we stop asking question. The search is over -- regardless if those truths are accurate or not.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods. It's not a claim that there are not any gods. Some atheists might claim there aren't any, but that isn't what my atheism is. Belief is a very personal thing. One word cannot possibly describe me. Atheism is just one answer to one question. Atheism doesn't tell you what I believe. It tells you what I do not believe. It's the opposite of faith, an absence of a belief. It is the opposite of a belief. Agnosticism on the other hand is about epistemological issues. It deals with knowledge. Do we or can we know? Atheism is about belief. Do we believe?
If you ask me if I believe in a God and I say, "I don't know," then I'm not answering the question. The question wasn't do I know if there is a God, it was do I believe there is a God. I take this stance much lighter than most. I completely understand that others might not define their atheism as I do, and many of them frown on my stance. I couldn't care less. What difference does it make how I define my own beliefs? A lot of people define Christianity to mean belief in a Trinity. It's not anyone's job other than yourself who can speak for what you believe. If you tell me you are a Christian and you define Christianity to mean belief in only a Trinity or no Trinity, I will accept that because only you can define what you believe. I won't conclude you're a fake Christian because you define Christianity in a way different from mainstream. That is not my job.
Here's a great explanation, though. Please watch this if you want a detailed answer to the atheist/agnost question. This is exactly how I feel about the subject.
Atheism VS Agnosticism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTWlQaZ0DWo&list=SL
There is slightly more evidence for Jesus than there is for Socrates. I believe Socrates probably existed, and so I could see the man we know as Jesus also probably existed. His name definitely wasn't Jesus, though. That name is a translation from some other name -- most Bible names are translations. Regardless though, even if a man existed whom we now call Jesus, it doesn't mean he was God, or that he was the son of God. What I think is that Jesus probably did exist. Even though I do not believe the supernatural aspects, the person these stories were based on was probably real. The accounts of Jesus, however, are most likely exaggerated and/or sensationalized since his death. We do this all the time in our own generations. Imagine how strong these stories were to people in ancient times. Stories grow, and legends are born. That is the simplest possibility in this scenario, though.
I did the old experiment in high school where 20 people get together, and the one on the far end is given a story. He passes it on to the next person, and by the time it gets to the last person the story is completely different. This type of information is not reliable. God is supposed to be all knowing and fair. It is a really bad move to write us a book in the first place. An all knowing God would know how distorted his word would become. Look how many Bibles there are. In how many languages? Think about it. The written word is notoriously misrepresented. And to make it even worse, the Bible is written in a language hardly no one speaks anymore; even scholars do not agree on what everything means. In any other circumstance, we know that relying on word of mouth and folktales is unwise. That's why I don't believe. They only appear to be stories passed down through the ages. A God would understand this reasoning. I simply believe hostly acknowledging uncertainty is a more honest position -- even though it might not be the most comforting position.